^^^Yep. From a quick look at the ORC, it seems to be a total red herring, because the city can set the speed limit wherever it wants. Local TV news is worthless.  It's absurd the speed limit on a road like Franklin is 35 even after months or years of neighborhood complaints. If you're going to rip through your neighborhoods with expressways, as Cleveland enthusiastically did, a countervailing benefit should be making drivers slow the eff down on local roads, and it shouldn't be a multiyear administrative process. 

 

FWIW, there is a movement in other parts of the country to set the default speed limit on city streets in dense municipalities at 25 mph, forcing them to specifically justify and identify faster stretches.

It may not be permanent traffic - when I was working downtown and Shoreway construction had traffic backed up, I would switch to Detroit, and if that was heavy, I would switch to Franklin. (I first started using Franklin during the Captain America filming.)

 

 

When construction is finally over, there shouldn't be the types of backups that would make that route viable from a time standpoint.

Please share your ideas on traffic calming along Franklin Blvd so we can help make it safer for everyone.  Those of us who live near or travel on Franklin daily know how serious of an issue this is.  It's especially dangerous for bikers and pedestrians.  I've lost track of the number of crashes I've witnessed over the last 5yrs.  :whip: :whip:

 

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/FranklinBlvd

 

Residents living along Franklin Boulevard demand change after seeing hundreds of crashes

 

http://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/oh-cuyahoga/residents-living-along-franklin-boulevard-demand-change-after-seeing-hundreds-of-crashes

 

 

Is this in part because of the conversion of the West Shoreway?

 

Yes.  Traffic didn't vanish when the shoreway's capacity was reduced (e.g. one lane westbound yesterday).  Just like squeezing a hose, it sprays everywhere.

 

No. It doesn't have anything to do with shoreway.  It's been like this for as long as I've lived off of Franklin (six years), and I'm sure much longer than that. Accidents are occurring more frequently during non-rush hour traffic and weekends. If someone is only traveling on Franklin to go, and get home from work, then they have no idea what the complaints regarding safety concerns are about.

Always worth pointing out that reducing the speed limit on a a local road like Franklin barely changes average travel time for motorists.  Even if you removed all the traffic lights and assumed there were no other obstacles, driving the entire length of the road at 25 mph would take only 2 minutes and 8 seconds longer than driving it at 45 mph.  Add in realistic travel conditions and speeds (35 vs 45) and those two minutes probably goes down to less than one minute.

^^^Yep. From a quick look at the ORC, it seems to be a total red herring, because the city can set the speed limit wherever it wants.

 

I thought that was strange when I read it, because there were ridiculously low 25 mph speed limits on what were basically country roads in Willoughby Hills (an incorporated city) for the longest time.

Or you can look at Fulton... 35 mph south of Lorain as it winds through neighborhoods full of kids playing and people walking with a narrow street. Then there is w25th, a street 3 times as wide, lined by metro's outpatient bunker and half torn down business strips is only 25...

There are 35 mph residential streets throughout the city and throughout all cities.  Franklin is 35 in Lakewood and doesn't have these issues, so I don't believe changing the posted speed would solve much.  I do think enforcement would help, enforcement that includes jaywalking and bicycles as well as speeding cars.   

 

Installing a slalom course is not recommended.  That gives drivers additional distractions to manage, taking their focus away from bikes and pedestrians.

I remember Ashville was 25mph all through town and was 35 between Ashville and South Bloomfield. The state came along and made them raise it to 35 except in the tiny CBD. They even put up signs delineating the CBD underneath the speed limit signs. They also forced them to raise the speed limit in the non-dense sections between Ashville and S. Bloomfield to 45 and 55 depending on density.

 

This was about 15 years ago.

When construction is finally over, there shouldn't be the types of backups that would make that route viable from a time standpoint.

 

I'll double check, but isn't the red line closing soon to undergo track work? Anyone have insight on the extent, if any, that will have on traffic?

Yes it is going to be closed from Tower City all the way to 117th with replacement buses going down Detroit straight to West Blvd and then 117th where trains will run thru to the airport. (Riders who want 25th or 65th will be directed to take a Lorain Ave bus instead.)

Installing a slalom course is not recommended.  That gives drivers additional distractions to manage, taking their focus away from bikes and pedestrians.

 

I disagree.  Speed limits are almost irrelevant to how fast people will drive on a road.

http://www.sehinc.com/news/truth-about-speed-limits-explained-engineer

 

I suggest a low-cost trial -- lower the speed limit and increase citations for six weeks (and what will that cost -- I'd bet that traffic tickets will not cover the extra police presence).  And then put potted plants at spaced intervals on opposing sides of the street.  Park cars on the street.  Put some bike racks in parking spaces on the street.  Narrow that street down, create more distractions not fewer, and after another six weeks evaluate which approach had more success in slowing the cars. 

For details about the Red Line shutdown, see: https://www.urbanohio.com/forum/index.php?topic=6956.msg878380#msg878380

 

 

And yes, road traffic does go away when you make it more difficult to drive. Sure, it doesn't completely disappear. But just as demand for driving is induced with adding more road capacity, demand for driving is discouraged when road capacity is decreased. Remember in 2007 when a tanker truck caught fire in the Bay Area and melted a bridge at the interchange of I-80 and I-580? Everyone was certain that traffic chaos would result. Guess what? It didn't. People found other routes or didn't make trips at all, while some took transit or telecommuted. It was a lesson for transportation planners everywhere and led to new thinking -- traffic congestion isn't bad. If you want to encourage people to consider alternatives to driving alone, driving so often, or driving so far, traffic congestion is the best way to achieve this.

 

Here is some interesting reading:

 

Traffic congestion is good! https://www.brookings.edu/research/traffic-why-its-getting-worse-what-government-can-do/

Reducing road capacity does what?? http://www.worldcarfree.net/resources/freesources/Evide.htm

This just in -- more lane-miles = more traffic: https://www.vox.com/2014/10/23/6994159/traffic-roads-induced-demand

Installing a slalom course is not recommended.  That gives drivers additional distractions to manage, taking their focus away from bikes and pedestrians.

 

I disagree.  Speed limits are almost irrelevant to how fast people will drive on a road.

http://www.sehinc.com/news/truth-about-speed-limits-explained-engineer

 

I suggest a low-cost trial -- lower the speed limit and increase citations for six weeks (and what will that cost -- I'd bet that traffic tickets will not cover the extra police presence).  And then put potted plants at spaced intervals on opposing sides of the street.  Park cars on the street.  Put some bike racks in parking spaces on the street.  Narrow that street down, create more distractions not fewer, and after another six weeks evaluate which approach had more success in slowing the cars. 

 

Create more distractions?  That sounds counterproductive when the goal is reducing accidents.  Attention paid to swerving around fixed obstacles is attention not paid to nearby objects in motion, many of which are alive.

 

I agree that the speed limit is not especially relevant.  Collisions are the safety problem.  My suggestion would include citations for illegal walking and biking activities that lead to increased collisions-- in addition to speed enforcement on cars.  Throw in that stuff and we've got an interesting experiment.  What if the drivers going 35 are the only people obeying basic safety rules, while bikes ignore traffic signals and pedestrians refuse to use sidewalks or crosswalks? 

Where do you get the idea that slalom courses (aka Traffic Calming) reduces safety for cyclists and pedestrians?? That the exact opposite finding of every bit of transportation research in the past 20 years or so. Please read some research before coming to conclusions. Here's some valuable insight:

 

“Familiarity breeds inattention,” according to a Churchill Insurance Study which found that 46% of drivers say they are most likely to have no recollection of how they got to their destination during “autopilot journeys,” those regular trips on familiar routes. Importantly, 7% percent of motorists say they are most likely to switch to autopilot while “doing the school run.”

 

Furthermore, at 40 mph, a pedestrian or cyclist has an 80 percent chance of dying when hit by a car. Reduce the speed to 20 mph and the chance of dying drops to only 5 percent: http://www.radarsign.com/best-practices-school-zone-traffic-calming/

1) Radarsign sells "traffic calming" equipment for profit... of course they think it's a good idea.

 

2) That being said, their website also makes my points.  Probably because their lawyers told them to.

 

3) Nobody is arguing against 20 mph school zones, nor in favor of zoning out while transporting children.

LOL. Google traffic calming, pedestrian, bicycle safety. They are as intertwined as water and wet.

There are 35 mph residential streets throughout the city and throughout all cities.  Franklin is 35 in Lakewood and doesn't have these issues, so I don't believe changing the posted speed would solve much.  I do think enforcement would help, enforcement that includes jaywalking and bicycles as well as speeding cars.   

 

Installing a slalom course is not recommended.  That gives drivers additional distractions to manage, taking their focus away from bikes and pedestrians.

 

Franklin in Lakewood is not apples to apples though.  There is no on-street parking, and there's a center turn lane.

 

As a frequent user of Franklin, I've seen some near misses with cars doing 35-40 as someone steps from around a parked SUV or van to go to their driver's door.  The same issue exists on Lake Ave on the Cleveland side where you have all the apartment residents parked on a 35 mph roadway.  In fact you'll notice, most drivers use half the turn lane to avoid driving too close to those parked cars. 

Also, it's not true that there are 35 mph residential streets throughout all cities. There are virtually none now in the entire city of Boston and in several of its inner suburbs since they individually reduced their default speed limits to 25 (and no, not all roads in New England are short, curvy, or narrow). You can't just extrapolate from experience in auto-centric Cleveland and declare it universally true. Franklin being 35 mph may seem normal in Cleveland, but it wouldn't be normal in places that have better pedestrian and biking cultures.

Or higher density and better transit, which make car-free living feasible.  You're right, I should have said "Ohio cities" or something like that. 

 

As for people who choose to step right in front of traffic-- don't!  That's true from Manhattan to Alaska.

Just witnessed another horrible wreck on w57th and Franklin about 20min ago. Two speeding cars collided into each other.  Ambulance at the scene.  Something needs to be done ASAP!

As somebody who lives on Franklin, I can tell you that people fly down this street, passing turning cars, speeding through school zones. Making it 25 miles per hour and combining that with traffic calming devices to make if feel like it should be 25 mph would be fantastic.

^^^Yep. From a quick look at the ORC, it seems to be a total red herring, because the city can set the speed limit wherever it wants.

 

I thought that was strange when I read it, because there were ridiculously low 25 mph speed limits on what were basically country roads in Willoughby Hills (an incorporated city) for the longest time.

 

Those were speed traps, something WH is known for.

 

Likewise, Route 8 through Northfield Village has a 25MPH speed limit despite having no on-street parking or residential driveways and being four lanes all the way through.

Community meeting tomorrow at @BlackbirdBaking! Beck Center, @LakewoodOhio, @clevemetroparks, and @NOACA_MPO all want to hear your thoughts on Detroit/Sloane/Valley Parkway intersection! https://t.co/oycorGmJgE

West Shoreway bridge down to one lane, all summer long

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2018/04/shoreway_construction_2018.html

West Shoreway bridge down to one lane, all summer long

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2018/04/shoreway_construction_2018.html

 

More dollars into a bridge that has outlived it's design!

West Shoreway bridge down to one lane, all summer long

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2018/04/shoreway_construction_2018.html

 

Yabo moves to Ohio City - "Wow this commute is great!"

 

5 months later -

- Shoreway entrance closed at 28th.

- Detroit backed up from the Bridge to 45th.

- *Tries route through the Flats* - St. Claire hill closed.

- *Moves to next option* - Hill under bridge up Main Ave to Lakeside closed.

- *Moves to next option* Hill up Front St. backed up to the old Wileyville.

 

1.2 miles and 41 minutes later arrives at work at E. 9th and St. Claire.

 

WHAT. THE. EFF.

Might be quicker to bike or even walk.  And better for you.

Might be quicker to bike or even walk.  And better for you.

 

Luckily I bought the bike last week. I'm planning on biking to work every Friday (as I won't have to be in a suit).

 

It will certainly be better for my mental health

Construction work was progressing at East 9th in Euclid in downtown Cleveland until....

 

@fox8news photo: @kenwillner https://t.co/m3XKoUagMP

Just a random question...why in the heck was the 480/71 interchange not set up as a cloverleaf?  It doesn't seem to make much sense to be set up as the current configuration.

I don't have the blueprints in front of me, but I think part of it is the tricky, narrow location of where 71 and 480 meet (between the airport and the CSX rail lines) and the fact that the Berea Freeway, which is much older than either 71 or 480, wiggles its way into it. There's really no good way to configure those five entry points into a coherent interchange.

Since we're asking random questions... Why is there no way to go south bound on I271 from West bound I480 at the interchange in Macedonia? I don't think there is a way  to go east bound on 480 from north bound 271 at that interchange either.

 

Something tells me it has something to do with I-80, but I wonder if anyone knows the true logic?

There are the same problems at 271 and 77. Southbound 77 can’t go north on 271

It's because both of those interchanges are diagonally going north or south, and I think they assume nobody would use those freeways to get to the other freeway and go the opposite direction. i.e. Somebody would just go straight to 271 rather than take 77 southbound or 480 westbound.

Yeah it's fairly common for highway engineers to leave out interchange movements that would lead to "backtracking". You also can't go from 480 westbound to 80 eastbound without taking Lorain for a mile or so, because the traffic count of people heading west to go east would be so low as to not make economic sense to build extra ramps.

I don't have the blueprints in front of me, but I think part of it is the tricky, narrow location of where 71 and 480 meet (between the airport and the CSX rail lines) and the fact that the Berea Freeway, which is much older than either 71 or 480, wiggles its way into it. There's really no good way to configure those five entry points into a coherent interchange.

 

Norfolk Southern. CSX comes north from Strongsville and Berea on two lines farther east. NS runs along the RTA Red Line and splits off at Rockport Yard next to I-480. FWIW.

Yay! It's sad to be checking out all of these beautiful new and rebuilt homes while your car is bouncing its way down pothole-filled streets....

 

A press release....

 

https://clecityhall.com/2018/08/13/cleveland-road-work-news-aug-13-2018/

 

Cleveland Road Work News: Aug. 13, 2018

Nancy Kelsey August 13, 2018 0 Comments

 

Thanks to Mayor Frank G. Jackson’s enhanced budget, made possible by Issue 32, the City of Cleveland will embark on more street improvement projects in 2018 than years past. Projects span all neighborhoods and wards throughout the city.

 

Here are some highlights about this year’s road work:

 

+ Potholes are serviced year round, weather permitting. The Department of Public Works has increased its pothole crews from three to 10 as a result of the passage of Issue 32.

+ Thanks to Issue 32 funds, the City of Cleveland has reinstated street sweeping services.

+ Leaf pick-up service has also been reactivated in designated high leaf generation areas. Stay tuned for fall dates!

+ To submit a claim to the City of Cleveland which involves vehicles, including damage caused by potholes, please click here: http://www.city.cleveland.oh.us/CityofCleveland/Home/Community/ResidentsInformationCenter/Legal#vehicledamage

 

Click here to view today’s roads report....https://clecityhall.files.wordpress.com/2018/08/aug-13-2018-roads-report.pdf

 

Updates will be posted Monday through Friday, excluding holidays.

 

###

ODOT looking to increase fines for contractors who snarl morning commute

http://www.cleveland19.com/2018/10/17/odot-looking-increase-fines-contractors-who-snarl-morning-commute/

15 hours ago, KJP said:

ODOT looking to increase fines for contractors who snarl morning commute

http://www.cleveland19.com/2018/10/17/odot-looking-increase-fines-contractors-who-snarl-morning-commute/

Maybe they can put the fine $$ towards public transit?

Pretty sure the left lane on 480E was closed again this morning, so apparently the contractor doesn't care about the fines.

First I've heard of this......

 

Ordinance No. 295-2019(Ward 3/Councilmember McCormack): Authorizing the Director of Public Works to execute two deeds of easement granting to the Ohio Department of Transportation certain temporary easement rights in property needed for its Detroit-Superior Bridge Rehabilitation Project; and declaring the easement rights not needed for the City's public use.  

Some cool pics:

http://www.bridgeprojectcleveland.com/sites/default/files/Bridge Project TLCI Final Report_small_0.pdf

1 hour ago, KJP said:

First I've heard of this......

 

Ordinance No. 295-2019(Ward 3/Councilmember McCormack): Authorizing the Director of Public Works to execute two deeds of easement granting to the Ohio Department of Transportation certain temporary easement rights in property needed for its Detroit-Superior Bridge Rehabilitation Project; and declaring the easement rights not needed for the City's public use.  

 

ODOT will be overlaying the entire deck of the bridge along with some other miscellaneous work (including rebuilding the Center Street operators building and a lot of substructure work in the lower level tunnels).

ODOT will also be working on the east side of the Lorain-Carnegie bridge this summer, so travel to the near west side will be a joy!

Dead Man's Curve News. http://www.cleveland19.com/2019/03/13/odot-if-gas-tax-passage-fails-dead-mans-curve-project-will-stall-out/

14 hours ago, simplythis said:

Dead Man's Curve News. http://www.cleveland19.com/2019/03/13/odot-if-gas-tax-passage-fails-dead-mans-curve-project-will-stall-out/

 

If they ever do get the funding and realign it, what will the curve be called?   "Not Quite Dead Man's Curve"? ?

It is interesting to read these older posts, I drive 480 several times/day. The eastbound bottlenecks have been fixed after Warrensville road. I believe the 480 bridge project is more about maintenance then widening. no one wants this bridge to fail and kill hundreds of people. Something to notice is that the piers under the westbound lanes near the eastern hill seem to be falling apart. Allega has been dumping cement next to them and may be causing some sort of failure, maybe due to the caustic nature of cement? Maybe the weight of this huge pile of cement has caused the ground to change? I am not accusing anyone of anything, just noticing things. 

On 3/14/2019 at 6:50 AM, Cleburger said:

 

If they ever do get the funding and realign it, what will the curve be called?   "Not Quite Dead Man's Curve"? ?

 

"The Curve of the Living"

Cleveland Clinic presents dead man's curve.

 

That will pay for it

I couldn't find the I love Cleveland thread so I'm putting this cool graphic here...