Frustrations mount as construction along Prospect Avenue continues

Kristin Volk

5:07 PM, Nov 9, 2015

10:14 AM, Nov 10, 2015

 

CLEVELAND - Frustrations are mounting as construction along Prospect Avenue continues. The Ohio Department of Transportation, or ODOT, said construction was supposed to be complete by Oct. 30.

 

“They don't have enough guys working on it,” said Chris Bader, a Strongsville resident who works downtown. “They have to have more men working on it in order to get it done. They work on a little section at a time. They need to work on the whole thing at the same time.”

 

“It doesn't seem like there are many workers at all,” said Tom Pelsoczi, a Northfield Center resident. “It's been there a long time, and it doesn't seem to be worked on consistently.”

 

ODOT said unknown underground utility problems and basements in defunct buildings are causing delays in the $1.6 million project, which started early July. Since it began, traffic has been reduced to single lanes in each direction.

 

MORE:

http://www.newsnet5.com/news/local-news/cleveland-metro/frustrations-mount-as-construction-along-prospect-avenue-continues

I wouldn't rely on observations from suburb dwellers who only work downtown. I live on Prospect and have seen and heard(!) workers at all hours. It's dragged on longer than desired, but I don't believe it's through the lack of resources.

I've been to two Cavs games so far this season (from C.H.), and this construction has been a huge pain!  Usually I can take Prospect and get down there pretty quick.  The traffic is completely backed up to CSU and because of that, Carnegie seems to have slowed down as people take alternate routes.  I'm looking forward to them finishing it.

 

Side note - it's funny how spoiled we are with traffic in Cleveland  Granted I don't take highways for work, but we get a little traffic in Cleveland due to construction and everyone is up in arms over it.  Our traffic is nothing compared to a lot of cities.

I obviously don't know the specifics...but wasn't this a just a resurfacing job? How would underground utilities and basements even come into conflict?

 

On a side note, thier traffic control has been god awful. Will be nice to have a pothole free road though :)

I tried driving through Midtown on Carnegie, then over to Chester near the Inner Belt last night during rush hour. BIG MISTAKE. That's an hour of my life I'll never get back. Thankfully it's coming to an end...

 

Paving work complete on Prospect. Striping as soon as weather allows. Road opens entirely after.

http://www.dot.state.oh.us/districts/D12/construction/Pages/Prospect-Avenue-Resurfacing.aspx?utm_source=hootsuite

I tried driving through Midtown on Carnegie, then over to Chester near the Inner Belt last night during rush hour. BIG MISTAKE. That's an hour of my life I'll never get back. Thankfully it's coming to an end...

 

Paving work complete on Prospect. Striping as soon as weather allows. Road opens entirely after.

http://www.dot.state.oh.us/districts/D12/construction/Pages/Prospect-Avenue-Resurfacing.aspx?utm_source=hootsuite

 

"Unknown basements of previous, long-defunct buildings have also posed a challenge."

 

That's interesting

But replacing those bridge decks will cause huge traffic backups!! We can't have that either!  :-P

 

PHOTOS | Crumbling concrete on I-480 bridge raising concerns for some drivers

ODOT says damages are "entirely cosmetic"

Faith Boone, Megan Hickey

1:47 PM, Nov 18, 2015

6 hours ago

 

Crumbling concrete and cracks in the piers holding up the I-480 bridge are causing distress for some local drivers.

 

newsnet5.com’s cameras captured some wear and tear on Northeast Ohio’s tallest bridge near Independence, Ohio on Wednesday.

 

That’s where several drivers noted concrete erosion on some of the support piers.

 

“I worry about that bridge all the time,” said Lisa Hingham, who lives in the area. “I’m always worrying if something going to fall on me as I’m driving through.”

 

MORE:

http://www.newsnet5.com/news/local-news/oh-cuyahoga/photos-damage-to-interstate-480-bridge-conerns-drivers

Mods, feel free to move this if there's a better thread for it, but I was wondering if anyone had an answer to this: Why does I-90 widen to have a grass median between Warren Road and W 44th Street? Most of the other urban stretches of freeway in the county are separated by a concrete barrier instead of a grass median, and I-90 was rammed through one of the most built-up sections of Cleveland. I know that a few locations were supposed to be home to interchanges for north-south connector roads... was there at one point plans to put in express lanes along this stretch or something

There was a north south connector planned around W. 65th.  The southern stub of this connector was built as the Denison exit ramp off of I-71.

There was a north south connector planned around W. 65th.  The southern stub of this connector was built as the Denison exit ramp off of I-71.

 

Right, and because of that proposed freeway, the planners expected traffic flow to be very heavy on that section I-90. The original plans were to create reversible lanes starting at W 140th and going east, so that there could be 8 lanes available going east bound in the morning and then west bound in the evening rush. Obviously the Parma Freeway was never built and nor were the median rush hour lanes

Mods, feel free to move this if there's a better thread for it, but I was wondering if anyone had an answer to this: Why does I-90 widen to have a grass median between Warren Road and W 44th Street? Most of the other urban stretches of freeway in the county are separated by a concrete barrier instead of a grass median, and I-90 was rammed through one of the most built-up sections of Cleveland. I know that a few locations were supposed to be home to interchanges for north-south connector roads... was there at one point plans to put in express lanes along this stretch or something

 

It was set aside for building a rapid transit line in the median of I-90 (aka the Northwest Freeway) which was under construction in the late 1960s east of McKinley in Lakewood (and mid-1970s west of McKinley). The median widens a little more west of Bunts/West 140th for an extra track or two for extra rush-hour trains to layover between runs. And also note that the westbound lanes of I-90 go below West 65th while eastbound lanes go above West 65th. There were two reasons for this. One was to accommodate an interchange with the Parma Freeway that was to go north to the Shoreway. The other reason is this is where the rapid transit line would go over 65th and westbound I-90 to reach and connect with the 1955-built Red Line into downtown Cleveland. I have detailed maps of this plan and will post them in a couple of days.

You all are probably aware of this site, but plans for the freeways are available here, select just above the photo on the right:

 

http://www.clevelandmemory.org/freeways/

 

Thanks for the info everyone! I figured someone here would have an answer  :wink:. Wow, we were lucky that all of those east side highways were either canceled or blocked.

You all are probably aware of this site, but plans for the freeways are available here, select just above the photo on the right:

 

http://www.clevelandmemory.org/freeways/

 

 

I was just reading through the plans for the Northwest Freeway and it also states that the median strip was intended for additional rush hour lanes. KJP[/member], I know there were plans for a CTS rapid line in the median, but was the freeway constructed with that as the original intent, or were those plans formulated after already knowing there would be a median in the highway? I can't find definitive information either way.

The date of the CTS plans could be the key. If they predate the Northwest Freeway's construction, that could be an indicator. But County Engineer Albert Porter almost certainly preferred the rush-hour lanes to the rail line, so the highway's plans probably said "if not one, then the other."

Mods, feel free to move this if there's a better thread for it, but I was wondering if anyone had an answer to this: Why does I-90 widen to have a grass median between Warren Road and W 44th Street? Most of the other urban stretches of freeway in the county are separated by a concrete barrier instead of a grass median, and I-90 was rammed through one of the most built-up sections of Cleveland. I know that a few locations were supposed to be home to interchanges for north-south connector roads... was there at one point plans to put in express lanes along this stretch or something

 

It was set aside for building a rapid transit line in the median of I-90 (aka the Northwest Freeway) which was under construction in the late 1960s east of McKinley in Lakewood (and mid-1970s west of McKinley). The median widens a little more west of Bunts/West 140th for an extra track or two for extra rush-hour trains to layover between runs. And also note that the westbound lanes of I-90 go below West 65th while eastbound lanes go above West 65th. There were two reasons for this. One was to accommodate an interchange with the Parma Freeway that was to go north to the Shoreway. The other reason is this is where the rapid transit line would go over 65th and westbound I-90 to reach and connect with the 1955-built Red Line into downtown Cleveland. I have detailed maps of this plan and will post them in a couple of days.

 

So the Parma Freeway would have connected with I-90 and the Shoreway? I wonder what the thought process was behind that? You think it would have just connected at I-71 and let the traffic flow north from there to downtown.

The date of the CTS plans could be the key. If they predate the Northwest Freeway's construction, that could be an indicator. But County Engineer Albert Porter almost certainly preferred the rush-hour lanes to the rail line, so the highway's plans probably said "if not one, then the other."

 

I did some digging this morning and it seems that before the highway was constructed, there was a battle between Don Hyde and Al Porter (as usual) over what would be in the median. Porter was quoted in the PD as saying the plan to use the median for transit was "monumental nonsense."

The date of the CTS plans could be the key. If they predate the Northwest Freeway's construction, that could be an indicator. But County Engineer Albert Porter almost certainly preferred the rush-hour lanes to the rail line, so the highway's plans probably said "if not one, then the other."

 

I did some digging this morning and it seems that before the highway was constructed, there was a battle between Don Hyde and Al Porter (as usual) over what would be in the median. Porter was quoted in the PD as saying the plan to use the median for transit was "monumental nonsense."

 

Porter was a more obnoxious Moses, which is a hard feat to pull off. The Power Broker was one enlightening book; it's crazy how much power these people had in the  50s and 60s.

In the 1990s, Ron Tober wanted to put a BRT in the median of I-90, switch over just east of West 65th to travel next to the Red Line and enter downtown on the former Cleveland Union Terminal right of way across the Cuyahoga River viaduct.

 

So the Parma Freeway would have connected with I-90 and the Shoreway? I wonder what the thought process was behind that? You think it would have just connected at I-71 and let the traffic flow north from there to downtown.

 

Note that the urban core of Cleveland was to be criss-crossed by a grid of freeways. When I see maps like this (and more at: http://www.roadfan.com/clevmap.html), all I can hear are the 1939 comments by Studebaker President Paul Hoffman on new highways "gashing ruthlessly" through the most densely developed parts of cities to create a car culture...

 

That's a fascinating map. I remember even in the 80s that the Parma Freeway was still proposed from I-71 to the Parma/North Royalton line. Amazing it was originally designed to connect with the Turnpike. Glad that freeway was never built. The East Side plan looks horrific.

 

Sadly, every freeway on the west side was built on this map except for the Parma freeway. Although, I-71 south of Hopkins is basically the Parma Freeway built to the west.

Westlake planning commission again tables Canterbury-Center Ridge roundabout proposal

By Beth Mlady, Special to cleveland.com

on May 03, 2016 at 6:17 PM, updated May 03, 2016 at 6:27 PM

 

WESTLAKE, Ohio -- Citing additional questions about safety, in particular the steep grade on a specific area of Canterbury Road, Westlake Planning Commission tabled again a proposal to build a roundabout at the intersection of Canterbury and Center Ridge roads. Members most recently denied the plan Oct. 5, 2015.

 

They also expressed concern about the close proximity of some business buildings to traffic flow after easements would be taken. Parking lots would be impacted, and vehicles entering and exiting parking areas also could create flow problems. Pedestrian traffic safety also raised some concerns.

 

According to data presented by city engineer Jim Smolik, the Canterbury-Center Ridge intersection currently has the highest crash rate in Westlake. The majority of accidents occur there during left turns onto Canterbury.

 

MORE:

http://www.cleveland.com/westlake/index.ssf/2016/05/westlake_planning_commission_a_2.html

It would be nice to see some of these awful intersections in Shaker get replaced with roundabouts :)

It would be nice to see some of these awful intersections in Shaker get replaced with roundabouts :)

 

They really don't work well with Northeastern Ohio drivers, at least not at Richmond-Pettibone (which albeit is way too small).  Especially when designers pile crap in the middle (as happened at R-P) to try to keep drivers from looking across.  It now gets backed up on Richmond worse than it did with the stop sign.  They are also really controversial where they have been proposed in Twinsburg.

 

People have some odd irrational fear of roundabouts. It's like anything else they don't understand, so they hate it.

Right...it's the same issue with the 90 Westbound MLK Dr off-ramp. They cannot seem to grasp that they do not stop. W14th roundabout seems to work *okay* but still not great.

People have some odd irrational fear of roundabouts. It's like anything else they don't understand, so they hate it.

 

Everyone has their own idea of how they are supposed to "work".  Even the woman who sideswiped the wheel of my car because she thought the outer lane was turn-only.

 

However, the biggest problem with them in this area is the NE Ohio mindset.  While we're pretty good about explicit rules like traffic lights and stop signs we tend to be aggressive with things like on ramps and lane changes.

Right...it's the same issue with the 90 Westbound MLK Dr off-ramp. They cannot seem to grasp that they do not stop. W14th roundabout seems to work *okay* but still not great.

 

I will concede that I find the W14th roundabout to be the most poorly designed I've ever driven through. Even after the restriping which improved it a bit.

Right...it's the same issue with the 90 Westbound MLK Dr off-ramp. They cannot seem to grasp that they do not stop. W14th roundabout seems to work *okay* but still not great.

 

I will concede that I find the W14th roundabout to be the most poorly designed I've ever driven through. Even after the restriping which improved it a bit.

 

I've driven it and the Richmond Pettibone is way worse.  It's too small and has junk in the middle.  At least you can see across at 14th.

Go to Tallmadge to see how roundabouts are supposed to be designed. Or better yet, the UK.

A whole lot of paving going on. If we had an RNC like event every year this city would be spotless...

 

Traffic Advisory: 2016 Downtown Street Resurfacing Project

 

http://www.downtowncleveland.com/media/2016/traffic-advisory-2016-downtown-street-resurfacing-project.aspx

Speaking of repaving...any chance Stearns between Euclid and Carnegie ever gets new pavement?  It's horrible when you get close to Carnegie.

 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

 

https://clecityhall.com/2016/05/03/scrantoncarter-road-reconstruction-project/

Lots of love to the Flats. Scranton/Carter will be rebuilt with concrete, with new curbs and bike lanes installed. Wiley and Train, both terrible roads to drive on, will be resurfaced.

Speaking of repaving...any chance Stearns between Euclid and Carnegie ever gets new pavement?  It's horrible when you get close to Carnegie.

 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

It was recently patched (only making it more bumpy), so I'm guessing not. 

https://clecityhall.com/2016/05/03/scrantoncarter-road-reconstruction-project/

Lots of love to the Flats. Scranton/Carter will be rebuilt with concrete, with new curbs and bike lanes installed. Wiley and Train, both terrible roads to drive on, will be resurfaced.

 

They should take this one step further and double the thickness to make a viable truck route from the port out to 490!  Get those trucks off of W 25th, the Detroit Superior Bridge and Huron!

Looks like we are getting some new bridges... or at least bridge replacements.

They are proposing to build a new bridge in between the two existing spans. This will allow, when complete, one span to be closed and be replaced. Once one span is replaced, the other will be removed and replaced. When complete, there will be eight lanes of traffic going in each direction

http://www.newsnet5.com/news/local-news/cleveland-metro/john-kasich-to-announce-major-transportation-project-in-cleveland

When I heard Kasich had a major transportation announcement I thought could it be we are finally getting more state money for public transportation?  Of course that would be ridiculous. [emoji849]

 

 

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Didn't somebody die inside one the pilings when they were building the bridge in the 70s? Or did I bite on something that was made up?

Work to begin next year. Expected to be complete by 2023

So - 16 lanes in the center - with the original 1975 bridges being removed? They are not in poor condition, with 84% sufficiency ratings.

^ I don't think that's quite true. What they'll be doing is a replacement of the existing decks and miscellaneous steel and pier repairs. My understanding is that the final condition will be 6 lanes in each direction. 4 on the existing bridges and two in each direction on the center structure.

^ I don't think that's quite true. What they'll be doing is a replacement of the existing decks and miscellaneous steel and pier repairs. My understanding is that the final condition will be 6 lanes in each direction. 4 on the existing bridges and two in each direction on the center structure.

 

Now that I can believe. Besides, there's no room in the middle for a 16-lane bridge. The space between the two bridges looks like about as wide as the two existing bridges.

 

Of course, I'm not sure why we're building these bridges in the first place. I'd love to see a tax-gap analysis of this project, and if it would be more cost-effective to build Lorain-Aurora commuter rail instead.

Unless ODOT Director Jerry Wray misspoke (or I misheard), he specifically said during the press conference that there would be eight lanes in each direction when the project is complete. I admit I may have misheard... but I did hear 8 lanes for sure.

 

 

As this sounds ridiculous, I will admit to being wrong  :)

It will be a design build with a least cost bid selected from a shortlisted set of teams.

 

More project info can be found in this PDF:

 

http://www.dot.state.oh.us/Divisions/ConstructionMgt/design-build/Docs/20160614_NoticeToIndustryI-480.pdf

 

(Includes a link to preliminary studies)

ODOT district 12 headquarters is out in Garfield Heights, 0.5 miles from this bridge. I'm guessing this $281 Million Dollar project is a project for themselves, out there in the sprawl. I'd call for ODOT to either officially rename themselves Ohio Department of Highways, or relocate to downtown Cleveland and live on a daily basis that there is life outside of the sprawl, and they should focus on effective solutions of all-of-the-above, and not just endless highway projects serving the sprawl.

 

If you can't resurface the bridge because of too much traffic, what-if, you added open-road-tolling to the Valley View Bridge (to pay for the $281M project), and charge $0.50 each time you crossed, I'd imagine your 160k daily traffic would magically decrease, and you won't need to build a temp-bridge. If not, then at the tolls would pay for the bridge in 9.6 years.

So $281 million for extra lanes that may be needed only four hours each day? So we're using supply to regulate demand without the influence of price? Hardly a free-market solution. Reminds me of this paragraph:

 

http://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/fhwahop08039/cp_prim1_02.htm

 

At its most fundamental level, highway congestion is caused by the lack of a mechanism to efficiently manage use of capacity. When searching for a solution to the congestion problem, most people immediately think of adding a new lane to an overburdened highway. Construction costs for adding lanes in urban areas average $10–$15 million per lane mile.2 In general, the funding for this type of construction comes from taxes that drivers pay when buying gas for their vehicles. Overall, funds generated from gas taxes on an added lane during rush hours amount to only $60,000 a year (based on 10,000 vehicles per day during rush hours, paying fuel taxes amounting to about 2 cents per mile). This amount is grossly insufficient to pay for the lane addition.

ODOT district 12 headquarters is out in Garfield Heights, 0.5 miles from this bridge. I'm guessing this $281 Million Dollar project is a project for themselves, out there in the sprawl. I'd call for ODOT to either officially rename themselves Ohio Department of Highways, or relocate to downtown Cleveland and live on a daily basis that there is life outside of the sprawl, and they should focus on effective solutions of all-of-the-above, and not just endless highway..

 

Valley View/Garfield is "out there in the sprawl?" Huh? This ain't Avon.... It's barely 8 driving miles from Public Square.. -- as close or closer driving distance than UO-beloved Lakewood, Waterloo Rd, etc..

 

How would the extra center lanes connect to the rest of the freeway on either "end?"  You can widen the bridge, but traffic will still have to funnel into fewer lanes on each end of the Valley View Bridge (example: poorly designed southern end of the I-271 express lanes).  Will the lanes be express lanes continuing from Garfield Hts to Brooklyn Hts in the existing median with no access to I-77, or is it just the bridge that is to be widened?

^ I don't think that's quite true. What they'll be doing is a replacement of the existing decks and miscellaneous steel and pier repairs. My understanding is that the final condition will be 6 lanes in each direction. 4 on the existing bridges and two in each direction on the center structure.

 

Now that I can believe. Besides, there's no room in the middle for a 16-lane bridge. The space between the two bridges looks like about as wide as the two existing bridges.

 

Of course, I'm not sure why we're building these bridges in the first place. I'd love to see a tax-gap analysis of this project, and if it would be more cost-effective to build Lorain-Aurora commuter rail instead.

 

Just a question.  How would the Lorain - Aurora commuter rail take over significant functionality from I-480, which serves people going in many directions when accessing and egressing, and includes actual through traffic (eg. Chicago - Buffalo) ?  What do you see as the trip generators, what would its route be, and where would the stops be?  What sorts of connecting services would be available?

How would the extra center lanes connect to the rest of the freeway on either "end?"  You can widen the bridge, but traffic will still have to funnel into fewer lanes on each end of the Valley View Bridge (example: poorly designed southern end of the I-271 express lanes).  Will the lanes be express lanes continuing from Garfield Hts to Brooklyn Hts in the existing median with no access to I-77, or is it just the bridge that is to be widened?

 

Now that's an intriguing thought.