I believe thebillshark is on the otr community council...do we still not have any info on what the liberty st road diet update was that took place?

I believe thebillshark is on the otr community council...do we still not have any info on what the liberty st road diet update was that took place?

 

I haven’t posted about it here, but I resigned from the OTRCC at the end of March and completed a move from OTR to Westwood in June. I haven’t heard what the update entails except that there is one.

I believe thebillshark is on the otr community council...do we still not have any info on what the liberty st road diet update was that took place?

 

I haven’t posted about it here, but I resigned from the OTRCC at the end of March and completed a move from OTR to Westwood in June. I haven’t heard what the update entails except that there is one.

 

Ah I see. Well if you manage to ask your fellow ex council friends and find out what the update was, that would be much appreciated!

 

 

I believe thebillshark is on the otr community council...do we still not have any info on what the liberty st road diet update was that took place?

 

I haven’t posted about it here, but I resigned from the OTRCC at the end of March and completed a move from OTR to Westwood in June. I haven’t heard what the update entails except that there is one.

 

I've seen several OTR--->Westwood moves lately. A sign??

Probably no more or less of a sign when people were migrating away from OTR and were moving to Northside instead...

I believe thebillshark is on the otr community council...do we still not have any info on what the liberty st road diet update was that took place?

 

I haven’t posted about it here, but I resigned from the OTRCC at the end of March and completed a move from OTR to Westwood in June. I haven’t heard what the update entails except that there is one.

 

I've seen several OTR--->Westwood moves lately. A sign??

 

It's a sign that millennials are aging into family formation stage and are choosing to stay in Cincinnati where there are plenty of walkable urban neighborhoods to choose from!

 

Also, this is not a sign that OTR is getting less hot, just that it is becoming more for people who want to be in the downtown scene (i.e. YP's, younger millennials, older iGens).

Residents that are families exist but in small pockets of the neighborhood.

There is hardly such thing as a true 2-bedroom condo in OTR, let alone a true 3-4 bedroom unit.  Best of luck trying to raise 2-3 kids in a not-really-a-2 bedroom condo. 

I believe thebillshark is on the otr community council...do we still not have any info on what the liberty st road diet update was that took place?

 

I haven’t posted about it here, but I resigned from the OTRCC at the end of March and completed a move from OTR to Westwood in June. I haven’t heard what the update entails except that there is one.

 

I've seen several OTR--->Westwood moves lately. A sign??

 

It's a sign that millennials are aging into family formation stage and are choosing to stay in Cincinnati where there are plenty of walkable urban neighborhoods to choose from!

 

Also, this is not a sign that OTR is getting less hot, just that it is becoming more for people who want to be in the downtown scene (i.e. YP's, younger millennials, older iGens).

Residents that are families exist but in small pockets of the neighborhood.

 

Correct and really that's going to be the best way to bring those neighborhoods back. No one is moving from Blue Ash to Westwood, but if you get young people starting out close to the urban core, they'll be more likely to consider those close in neighborhoods with short commutes and great housing stock.

We have a fair number of families up on Mulberry in the north end of OTR.  But the houses are a bit bigger (and the newer construction is certainly such that it can accommodate families). 

There is hardly such thing as a true 2-bedroom condo in OTR, let alone a true 3-4 bedroom unit.  Best of luck trying to raise 2-3 kids in a not-really-a-2 bedroom condo. 

 

We struggled to find out three bedroom in OTR and paid a hefty price to get it.  I really wish there were more 3 bedrooms in the neighborhood even if the individual bedrooms are small.

So here is what I learned, finally....

 

The project is still a go, and is ready for a 2019 start date. The funding is finalized and allocated for the project.

 

The other update that was discussed is that when the street diet occurs and fcc begins play in 2021, cars will not be allowed to park on liberty  street 3 hours before, nor 2 hours after a soccer match.

There is hardly such thing as a true 2-bedroom condo in OTR, let alone a true 3-4 bedroom unit.  Best of luck trying to raise 2-3 kids in a not-really-a-2 bedroom condo. 

 

We struggled to find out three bedroom in OTR and paid a hefty price to get it.  I really wish there were more 3 bedrooms in the neighborhood even if the individual bedrooms are small.

 

This is off-topic for this thread but NYC has many true 3 and 4-bedroom apartments.  There are some 3-bedrooms around Cincinnati but I have never heard of a 4-bedroom. 

 

 

I believe thebillshark is on the otr community council...do we still not have any info on what the liberty st road diet update was that took place?

 

I haven’t posted about it here, but I resigned from the OTRCC at the end of March and completed a move from OTR to Westwood in June. I haven’t heard what the update entails except that there is one.

 

I've seen several OTR--->Westwood moves lately. A sign??

 

It's a sign that millennials are aging into family formation stage and are choosing to stay in Cincinnati where there are plenty of walkable urban neighborhoods to choose from!

 

Also, this is not a sign that OTR is getting less hot, just that it is becoming more for people who want to be in the downtown scene (i.e. YP's, younger millennials, older iGens).

Residents that are families exist but in small pockets of the neighborhood.

 

Correct and really that's going to be the best way to bring those neighborhoods back. No one is moving from Blue Ash to Westwood, but if you get young people starting out close to the urban core, they'll be more likely to consider those close in neighborhoods with short commutes and great housing stock.

 

Im in total agreement that it's not a negative sign for OTR. I mean people move, and the OTR rebirth has aged enough that it is time we should be seeing outflows from the neighborhood. To me what is interesting, is that a seemingly decent number of those moving out aren't defaulting to the east side. There's a really steady flow of folks going to Northside, Price Hill and Westwood.

As for no one moves from Blue Ash to Westwood....bite your tongue. A really nice renovation in the Town Hall area was just bought by a newly empty nested couple from West Chester!!  Its exciting to see any of the citys more neglected areas attracting new residents.

 

MODS- please move to more appropriate thread? Or create new one???

OTR isn’t cheap either. Your talking 300k for 1 bedroom in most cases. You can get a lot more value in other neighborhoods for that much money...it’s clear otr is being paved for a certain class of people who want certain life style amenities.

Latest news coming out is that the road diet has been put on hold because of fears of fcc traffic.

 

Sad if true.

I urge everyone who wants to see this project carry through to email city council members and urge them that we want to see the liberty road diet carried through and not delayed.

 

[email protected] to reach all members of council at once.

I think I completely called this before. Of course this was going to happen, exactly as Cranley wanted. Hopefully there is enough backlash where they push it through.

I wonder if FCC in Oakley was a savior for the Liberty Road diet? It seems that getting fans in cars in and out seems to be their only worries when it comes to infrastructure. If the west end site was chosen Liberty would have been the most direct connection to eastside fans on I-71 and it seems their thinking is "more lanes = more fans". Didn't want to tangent off the FCC thread but supporters of the road diet should perhaps count their blessings iy isn't in the West End.

 

 

^^^^^ Yep same here. Same predictable Cranley, got to keep the Joseph family & other donors happy and keep them cars a-movin' thru town. Everyone else be damned while i further my political career!

Wondering if any update on this and where it is at?

 

I am getting the feeling that they are delaying this because of the FC stadium site.  I would hope that if they do build the stadium in West End that they don't cancel the road diet... I would rather have the road diet than the stadium in the West End personally, the Road Diet has so much potential....

 

Here was mine and I think I voiced this elsewhere.

Where is the actual news about the delay? I'd like to contact council but would rather have something substantial to go on rather than rumors.

 

If it's true that the stadium is the issue, I think FCC fans could get rallied to support the road diet.

There's no actual news. Chris Wetterich of the Biz Journal got the rumor from some girl on twitter.  That being said as an FCC fan and supporter of the deal I am 100% against stopping the road diet. Besides if FCC asks for it, which wouldn't surprise me, its up to the city to say no. Chances are Cranley been dying to have an excuse to stop it.

Where is the actual news about the delay? I'd like to contact council but would rather have something substantial to go on rather than rumors.

 

If it's true that the stadium is the issue, I think FCC fans could get rallied to support the road diet.

 

It was an update given by the same transportation head who was working the otr community council to design the road diet. It’s not a rumor sadly. Again I urge everyone to email city council and express that pedestrian safety trumps soccer traffic that would occur for a few hours on a Saturday.

I have no insider knowledge, but I suspect that if City Council were to pass a resolution telling the City Administration to follow through the with project, they could still force it to happen. They have, after all, been having community input meetings about this project since 2015, narrowing down the alternatives and settling on the current plan. It's super messed up that a stadium plan that got rushed through at the last minute can cancel a plan that took years to put together.

Again guys, here is the email address for all city council members:  [email protected]

 

Reaching out and urging to city council might help, or it might not. But the worst thing you can do is be complacent and do nothing.

 

It takes 2 minutes to write a quick email, explaining that you support the road diet, and the lives and safety of pedestrians is more vital than the importance of fcc game day traffic flow.

I have no insider knowledge, but I suspect that if City Council were to pass a resolution telling the City Administration to follow through the with project, they could still force it to happen. They have, after all, been having community input meetings about this project since 2015, narrowing down the alternatives and settling on the current plan. It's super messed up that a stadium plan that got rushed through at the last minute can cancel a plan that took years to put together.

 

The City DOTE's default position is to put its hands up in the air and exclaim they can't do anything about the cars. So they do nothing.

Subject: Liberty Street Safety Improvement Project

To: [email protected]

CC: [email protected], [email protected]

 

Members of City Council,

 

Since 2015, I have attended several community input sessions regarding the Liberty Street Safety Improvement Project, previously referred to as the Liberty Street Road Diet. Each of these meetings was held at the Woodward Theater for a packed audience of people who live, work, or spend time in Over-the-Rhine. Members of the community spoke about the need to make Liberty Street safer for all people, including pedestrians, bicyclists, and transit riders. We spoke about how the current design, at 7 lanes wide, is optimized for speeding cars and is wholly inappropriate for an urban neighborhood like Over-the-Rhine.

 

DOTE staff took the community input into consideration and ultimately presented their final plan to OTR Community Council on October 23, 2017. It called for removing two lanes from Liberty Street, which will reduce the crossing distance for pedestrians and discourage excessive speeding. Additionally, this will free up land for new development along the south side of the street, providing space for new housing, retail, or office space, which will generate additional tax revenue for the city. The project was set to go out for bid this fall and begin construction in 2019.

 

Unfortunately, according to rumors currently circulating, it seems that the Liberty Street Safety Improvement Project has been "paused" because of concerns about the traffic that will be generated by the new FC Cincinnati stadium in the West End. It is frustrating the Liberty Street plan, which has been in the works for years, might be cancelled because of a stadium plan that didn't exist until a few months ago. Additionally, it is disappointing that the OTR Community Council was not permitted to be involved in the stadium's Community Benefits Agreement, and yet, Over-the-Rhine would be negatively impacted by the cancellation of the Liberty Street Safety Improvement Project.

 

I urge City Council to pass a resolution requiring the City Manager follow through with the Liberty Street Safety Improvement Project.

 

Respectfully,

Travis Estell

Over-the-Rhine

Chris Seelbach tweeted: "I've asked the City Administration to explain the reported 'pause' of the Liberty Street road diet, which I've been working on for almost 7 years."

 

I would still urge everyone who cares to write to City Council and cc: the Mayor and Acting City Manager. Use my above message as a template.

There is a rumor floating around that fcc will focus on 30,000 seats for the West End stadium right from the get to, as opposed to 21-25k and a second phase for 30k+

There is a rumor floating around that fcc will focus on 30,000 seats for the West End stadium right from the get to, as opposed to 21-25k and a second phase for 30k+

 

Another thing to remember is the Promo West venture that has been floated for around here as well. They see this as an area for more than just occasional home soccer games so those opposed shouldnt take the 'well it is only used for x many home games so the streets needs to be reduced' angle because there answer wont be the street diet staying. They will keep the street huge or bigger and claim having more big events as a cure to your concern on 700wlw, knowing well and good that wasn't the concern all along.

They could wall off Liberty St. between Central Parkway and Elm St. and everyone would still get there in time for the game.  It has terrific access from any number of directions. 

Living in that area around Liberty for awhile and just being used to the neighborhood I can tell you that there is nothing bigger for OTR development than the Liberty Street redevelopment. Fixing the streetcar would also be huge but IMO Liberty Street needs it badly.

 

It's exactly the type of thing anti city-center John Cranley pulls and has done it now for over 5 years. It was my biggest fear from the get go once they started talking FCC in WE and is coming to fruition now.  They will do a study which will probably happen in a week and say they *HAVE TO KEEP IT WIDE* then they will delay the downtown/OTR streetcar traffic study until 2020 once the stadium opens.

They could wall off Liberty St. between Central Parkway and Elm St. and everyone would still get there in time for the game.  It has terrific access from any number of directions. 

Regarding stadium traffic, I think the only major challenge from an access perspective is getting TO the stadium from northbound I-75. Not sure if the (still unfunded) Brent Spence bridge replacement would add an exit with more direct access to Liberty. Google Maps currently recommends a circuitous route through the West End which could pose traffic problems.

 

The proposed Liberty “diet” (which only addresses Liberty between Sycamore and Central Parkway) would still maintain two lanes of traffic in each direction (during rush hour) plus a turn lane, so I don’t think it would have any less “peak capacity” than the current configuration.

^you take the River Road Exit and turn right on Linn St. (from there you could take Ezzard Charles or Liberty to the stadium.) it’s pretty easy and how I would usually come home to OTR driving north on I-75.

 

Agree on the second point- even after the road diet all you would have to do is put up “no parking” signs on game day and you’d have the same capacity as you do today. Doesn’t make sense to use the stadium as an excuse to stop the project.

 

The traffic for this isn't going to be any more substantial than for a sold-out event at U.S. Bank arena.  We're talking 20-25,000 people, not the 65,000 at Paul Brown Stadium. 

The traffic for this isn't going to be any more substantial than for a sold-out event at U.S. Bank arena.  We're talking 20-25,000 people, not the 65,000 at Paul Brown Stadium. 

 

I would think it would be less. Lots of people will be arriving early to tailgate, go to bars, restaurants etc.

This letter went out from PG Sittenfeld on Saturday:

 

City Manager, Asst. Mgr., Director --

 

Can the City Administration, at its earliest convenience, please share an FYI Memo with the Council about the status of the Liberty Street Safety Improvement Project: https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/dote/dote-projects/liberty-street-safety-improvement-study/

 

I am fully in support of this initiative, and do not support the abandonment of this important project in any form. Fundamental safety and quality of life issues hang in the balance for many thousands of people. City Hall must prioritize those who live, work, and play here; the priority should never be to turn the streets of our urban neighborhoods into super-highways simply for the convenience of occasional visitors or those speeding through.

 

Direction on such matters can and should only come from the policy-making body. Moreover, the City Administration says in its own words that "most of the construction project funding has been secured and the project can be ready for a Fall 2018 bid and a Spring 2019 start of construction."

 

I look forward to receiving an update soon, and if you wish, the City Administration is also welcome to present in-person on this matter during the special session of my committee this coming Tuesday at 2:00PM, or at the next regularly scheduled committee hearing.

 

Sincerely,

P.G.

There is a rumor floating around that fcc will focus on 30,000 seats for the West End stadium right from the get to, as opposed to 21-25k and a second phase for 30k+

 

Another thing to remember is the Promo West venture that has been floated for around here as well. They see this as an area for more than just occasional home soccer games so those opposed shouldnt take the 'well it is only used for x many home games so the streets needs to be reduced' angle because there answer wont be the street diet staying. They will keep the street huge or bigger and claim having more big events as a cure to your concern on 700wlw, knowing well and good that wasn't the concern all along.

Promo West publicly stated after "losing" the Banks venue that they wouldn't be interested in opening venue of their own in the area.  Said it would be bad for business for both them and the CSO as it would just lead to both places paying more and making less money when fighting over the same acts.  I'm sure FCC will use their stadium for occasional concerts but there won't be a ton as they don't want to damage the grass. 

This letter went out from PG Sittenfeld on Saturday:

 

City Manager, Asst. Mgr., Director --

 

Can the City Administration, at its earliest convenience, please share an FYI Memo with the Council about the status of the Liberty Street Safety Improvement Project: https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/dote/dote-projects/liberty-street-safety-improvement-study/

 

I am fully in support of this initiative, and do not support the abandonment of this important project in any form. Fundamental safety and quality of life issues hang in the balance for many thousands of people. City Hall must prioritize those who live, work, and play here; the priority should never be to turn the streets of our urban neighborhoods into super-highways simply for the convenience of occasional visitors or those speeding through.

 

Direction on such matters can and should only come from the policy-making body. Moreover, the City Administration says in its own words that "most of the construction project funding has been secured and the project can be ready for a Fall 2018 bid and a Spring 2019 start of construction."

 

I look forward to receiving an update soon, and if you wish, the City Administration is also welcome to present in-person on this matter during the special session of my committee this coming Tuesday at 2:00PM, or at the next regularly scheduled committee hearing.

 

Sincerely,

P.G.

 

 

At the very least it seems like the emails are raising the alarm bells at city council. Again, if anyone has yet to shoot an email, take a few minutes to do so.

 

[email protected]

 

[email protected]

 

[email protected]

 

Not sure what the outcome will be, but I'm glad Seelbach and PG are in agreement that the Liberty St diet shouldn't be paused for the sake of bending down towards FCC.

 

Hopefully, city administration will feel enough heat from the public and decide to overturn their decision to pause this project.

 

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/08/06/council-members-demand-answers-as-city-pauses-plan.html

^ The high vantage point of that shot makes the street look narrower than it is. 

“Fundamental safety and quality of life issues hang in the balance for many thousands of people,” Sittenfeld wrote. “City Hall must prioritize those who live, work, and play here; the priority should never be to turn the streets of our urban neighborhoods into super-highways simply for the convenience of occasional visitors or those speeding through.”

 

About exactly what you’d like to hear from an elected official, I think. You can see why the guy gets votes.

Although I am often critical of PG, he really seems to get it when it comes to this type of urban issues. I suspect that if he becomes our next mayor, we will see a lot more traffic calming / road diets move forward, more progressive leadership at DOTE, implementation of the Bike Plan, etc.

This comes across as PG, “striking while the iron is hot.”....Totally feels like his motivation is to win political points towards urban residents come mayoral election season.

 

He’s been taking credit on a lot of things lately...not to mention taking credit for bringing the FCC/West End deal together...now he could also take credit for saving the Liberty Street Diet Project.

 

It sounds all very strategic in a weird conspiracy type of way...

He is also a resident of OTR, so he obviously sees the value of walkable urban neighborhoods. Of course he also wants to say that he saved this project from cancellation ... that's how politics works ... but that doesn't mean he only cares about it for that reason.

Received a response from Council Member Landsman:

 

Travis,

 

Thank you for reaching out. I agree with you.

 

My understanding is that we’ll be getting an explanation from the Administration this week, and if I need to bring this in front of my committee I will. 

 

I’m very committed to making the city much more pedestrian friendly, and all of our neighborhoods much more walkable. 

 

We’ll get the facts, and hopefully get the project back on track.

 

Greg

This Memo was posted today saying the project is suspended.

 

http://city-egov.cincinnati-oh.gov/Webtop/ws/fyi/public/fyi_docs/Blob/4319.pdf?rpp=-10&m=1&w=doc_no%3D%273730%27

Studies, studies, always need more studies, does this mean the results of the downtown traffic study they’ve been working on for three years now will be null and void? What a joke

Traffic Engineers are the ultimate concern trolls.

Our region excels at:

 

- gathering community input, putting it into a binder, putting it onto a shelf, and never doing anything with it

- passing master plans and never getting around to implementing them

- doing study after study any sitting on the results until the study is outdated and we need to do a new study

Anyway, the line of reasoning given in that memo doesn't compute. It sounds like they're trying to claim that the primary for the cancellation is traffic from the FC Cincinnati stadium. And yet, the new 5-lane Liberty Street would offer the exact same capacity as the current 7-lane design, because parking would be restricted on game days, leaving two travel lanes in each direction. So that's not the real reason. It seems like the real reason is the lack of funding. And to make matters worse, the memo basically admits that the funding for this project was taken away and given to the FC Cincinnati stadium infrastructure.

 

So there's some weird circular logic being used here: Liberty Street can't be narrowed because of traffic from the new FC Cincinnati parking garages, but the traffic only exists because we took away from money from the Liberty Street narrowing to build the new garages in the first place.