Will there be a special zoning overlay attached to this "reclaimed" land? 

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but the new property lines will be 70 feet, which is four more feet than a typical downtown/OTR street.  So the street will be very similar to Main/Walnut/Vine/Race/Elm, etc. 

From what I heard at the public meetings in the past, they are planning on selling the land to the adjacent property owners, but the mechanics of it were not fully worked out yet. They want to keep them contiguous since there really isn't any build-able space on its own.

 

It's an interesting challenge since I don't think the city can *force* the adjacent property owners to buy it. Not sure how they handle the situation if the property owner doesn't want to pay.

It was mentioned that this is part of phase 1 of the liberty st diet. Is there a possible chance for a phase 2 that stretches all the way through Pendleton?

From what I heard at the public meetings in the past, they are planning on selling the land to the adjacent property owners, but the mechanics of it were not fully worked out yet. They want to keep them contiguous since there really isn't any build-able space on its own.

 

It's an interesting challenge since I don't think the city can *force* the adjacent property owners to buy it. Not sure how they handle the situation if the property owner doesn't want to pay.

 

Subdivide it and auction it off. 

 

 

Subdivide it and auction it off. 

 

LOL. I'd love to see somebody buy the 11' of new ROW north of Crossroad Health Center.

 

Subdivide it and auction it off. 

 

LOL. I'd love to see somebody buy the 11' of new ROW north of Crossroad Health Center.

 

And then build a fence!

^^ I think 11'-0" is the sidewalk width, the land that's being freed up looks closer to 15-25' wide (it varies by block). These are still small slivers of land that would be impracticable to build upon by themselves, but in terms of square footage they are valuable given the location. I'm just curious if the city is selling the land at market rate or for $1 each (or something in between). There are only a handful of property owners along the south side of Liberty, though, so maybe they're all on board with a fair price. It looks like 15th And Race LLC is the big winner as they are set to gain all of the land west of Race Street, which is the widest swathe.

If the vacation of the right of way is government initiated, it automatically goes back to the parcel from which it was acquired and doesn't need permission from the owner and is given at no cost.  Most states have a requirement that if a certain percentage of owners object, it must follow a different process.  If the vacation is owner initiated, then there is a value set on the property being vacated and the owner must pay the government agency fair market value if it does desire to sell it back to the adjacent owner.

Yeah - I'm assuming the City basically has to give it adjacent property owners at/near free... understanding that the value (to the city) just comes down the road (pun!) with improved property values. I don't think the city gets any quick windfall selling the property.

If the vacation of the right of way is government initiated, it automatically goes back to the parcel

 

I hadn't heard of that.  Honestly, it makes the most sense, especially for land that fronts a road.  Otherwise, a nefarious actor could get the city to vacate part of a street and block access to it with a new structure. 

At Chatfield College last night, the City DOTE explained that they actually don't know right now if they are legally allowed to sell the new parcels, or if those parcels will revert (for free) to the adjacent property owners. The confusion is because those parcels were never technically classified as "right of way". They are legally classified as City-owned property and so City Council will need to vote to determine how the sale/transfer will happen.

 

 

A few other things that came up at the meeting:

• They are NOT planning to bury utilities, due to cost and the difficulty of getting property owners to sign-on. This makes me very sad. I'm trying to get an answer about whether or not they will bury conduit to allow for easier burial in the future.
  
• They don't currently have funding for the north side sidewalk/curb replacement. It's possible that the project would move forward with just the southern curb being moved, and then later (if/when funding is available) the northern curb would be moved. But they seemed to think they will get the funding and do it all at the same time.
  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This fall, the city will be making several improvements to Main Street to calm traffic and improve the pedestrian experience. Previously the city studied converting the street to two-way but has put that issue on the shelf until it can be studied further. In the mean time, a few pedestrian improvements are being made.

 

The city is currently building out a large sidewalk bump-out at the corner of 13th & Main (see attachments). This corner is a bus stop, so Metro buses will now stop in the traffic lane to drop off and pick up passengers, rather than pulling over into the curb lane (which no longer exists). I believe the same thing will happen at the bus stop at Orchard and Main.

 

 

Bump-outs will be built at all of the crosswalks on Main between 12th and Liberty.

 

 

New sidewalks will be built between 12th and 13th as part of the project, but the city did not have the funds to continue the new sidewalk all the way north to Liberty at this time.

 

 

Following these sidewalk improvements, Main Street will be resurfaced in the spring of 2018.

Great deal, Main Street needs this streetscape improvement badly.  Too bad that it won't go all the way to Liberty on the sidewalk re-make, but will be nice to see where it is now and move forward with it sooner rather than later to complete the street.

Main (or any of the streets in OTR, save for Liberty) doesn't seem that hard or dangerous to cross, but I think the real benefit of the curb bump-outs will be the expanded sidewalk space. The crowds get quite large in this part of Main on weekend nights, so creating a bit more room to handle those crowds is smart. Buses stopping in the travel lanes will also help to slow traffic, which is another positive.

Main (or any of the streets in OTR, save for Liberty) doesn't seem that hard or dangerous to cross, but I think the real benefit of the curb bump-outs will be the expanded sidewalk space. The crowds get quite large in this part of Main on weekend nights, so creating a bit more room to handle those crowds is smart. Buses stopping in the travel lanes will also help to slow traffic, which is another positive.

 

My office is at 13th and Main and I constantly see cars speeding by. While Main Street is in no ways too wide for pedestrians to cross, its one-way nature lends to it becoming a speedway from 13th to Liberty. These improvements are designed to help break that up and potentially lessen speeds. We'll see if it improves the situation.

 

This fall, the city will be making several improvements to Main Street to calm traffic and improve the pedestrian experience. Previously the city studied converting the street to two-way but has put that issue on the shelf until it can be studied further. In the mean time, a few pedestrian improvements are being made.

 

The city is currently building out a large sidewalk bump-out at the corner of 13th & Main (see attachments). This corner is a bus stop, so Metro buses will now stop in the traffic lane to drop off and pick up passengers, rather than pulling over into the curb lane (which no longer exists). I believe the same thing will happen at the bus stop at Orchard and Main.

 

 

Bump-outs will be built at all of the crosswalks on Main between 12th and Liberty.

 

 

New sidewalks will be built between 12th and 13th as part of the project, but the city did not have the funds to continue the new sidewalk all the way north to Liberty at this time.

 

 

Following these sidewalk improvements, Main Street will be resurfaced in the spring of 2018.

 

New bump-out at 12th & Main in front of The Royal (a great new sandwich shop, BTW):

I wonder if FCC in Oakley was a savior for the Liberty Road diet? It seems that getting fans in cars in and out seems to be their only worries when it comes to infrastructure. If the west end site was chosen Liberty would have been the most direct connection to eastside fans on I-71 and it seems their thinking is "more lanes = more fans". Didn't want to tangent off the FCC thread but supporters of the road diet should perhaps count their blessings iy isn't in the West End.

 

Well since the city is removing the bump-outs on Vandercar Way in order to turn two parking lanes into driving lanes, it's only fair that the city give those bump-outs to other neighborhoods that want to become more pedestrian-friendly.

The latest on the Liberty Street Safety Improvement project including a draft of the final project plan.  It is moving forward.

 

 

http://otrcommunitycouncil.org/liberty-street-safety-improvement-project/

 

 

If you're an OTR resident and want a voice on this and other neighborhood issues YOU NEED TO JOIN THE OTR COMMUNITY COUNCIL. You need to join a month ahead of time to be a voting member.  Community Council approval is going to weigh heavily on the fate of this project. 

 

I just looked at this design again and it has grown on me since I last saw it. The one part that still seems weird is the way that Liberty Street is still 6 lanes east of Main and narrows to 5 lanes west of Main. If the city still plans to use the outermost lanes for parking during off-peak hours, I think this will create an odd situation, almost identical to Mann's Bend on Central Parkway, where there is a sudden transition from an all-day driving lane to a peak driving/off-peak parking lane. This setup confuses both drivers and parkers in that block.

^I see your point, but I don't think it'll be as bad as Mann's Bend, mostly because the stop lights and intersections on Liberty should make for clearer demarcations between parking zones. Where there's 24-hr parking on Liberty (east of Main, on the north side of Liberty), they will retain bumpouts, so it should be pretty clear.

Wondering if any update on this and where it is at?

 

I am getting the feeling that they are delaying this because of the FC stadium site.  I would hope that if they do build the stadium in West End that they don't cancel the road diet... I would rather have the road diet than the stadium in the West End personally, the Road Diet has so much potential....

Cincinnati is looking for a new DOTE director because our previous one just left for a job in another city. Let's hope that the new director doesn't hate road diets and traffic calming and decide to cancel this project.

It’s still on schedule per the latest status: https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/dote/dote-projects/liberty-street-safety-improvement-study/

It’s still on schedule per the latest status: https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/dote/dote-projects/liberty-street-safety-improvement-study/

 

"Most of the construction project funding has been secured and the project can be ready for a Fall 2018 bid and a Spring 2019 start of construction."

So with West End now the site, do they wait for an MLS announcement or is it still moving forward?

So with West End now the site, do they wait for an MLS announcement or is it still moving forward?

Even before the FCC stadium saga... I was hearing rumblings that there wasn't enough funding and the project would likely be postponed/delayed/shitcanned. Assuming everything goes ahead with the West End FCC stadium, I wouldn't be surprised if that further delays any improvements to Liberty.

If Qualls had been elected in 2013, the concrete would be dry on this project. 

 

I'm a little suspicious that 3CDC doesn't want this done until everything south of Liberty is built-out.  They want it to be a line of demarcation between "good" and "bad".  If that is smoothed out then they can't charge a premium for the property they control south of it. 

Budget constraints aside, I'm more in favor of simply reallocating the existing space within the roadway for things like a proper cycle track, curb bump-outs, and bus accommodation rather than narrowing it back down.  If there are in fact budgetary issues, that makes it a better option than no-build since it minimizes the relocation of storm drains and other utilities. 

Per the city's website, "Most of the construction project funding has been secured and the project can be ready for a Fall 2018 bid and a Spring 2019 start of construction."

 

Hopefully this project is too far along to be affected by the stadium plan. The worse case scenario is that the new DOTE head says, "Wait a minute, we need a way to get cars from I-71 to the stadium! We can't narrow Liberty Street!"

 

If the Town Center garage is the site of the new FCC parking garage, the city should install signage directing cars from I-71 via Central Parkway to the garage.

Google's got it right. Take 71 all the way around FWW and get off at Ezzard Charles or somewhere off of 75 and skip a dozen lights

 

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/39.1939523,-84.3834741/39.1107145,-84.521979/@39.1174376,-84.5237544,13z/am=t/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0

People are confusing the traffic caused by a 21,000 seat stadium with that of 60,000 Paul Brown.  There is no comparison.  We never hear anyone complain about U.S. Bank Arena traffic. 

People are confusing the traffic caused by a 21,000 seat stadium with that of 60,000 Paul Brown.  There is no comparison.  We never hear anyone complain about U.S. Bank Arena traffic. 

 

Yeah, Reds games average a similar attendance (20,000 to 22,000 or so the last few years) and traffic is rarely an issue. Access to GABP is easier than FC's new location will be, but UC's campus is harder to access and the infrastructure there manages to handle 40,000+ people for UC football games.

I would look at it as a day of the year thing. Set the redesign for the 359 days of traffic not the 6 of game days. Traffic is fluid it will find the easiest route. In a sensible world and administration this should be the path to follow, however lately this isnt always the case.

 

Newly re-done intersection of Liberty and Central Parkway:

 

 

Slightly better for pedestrians due to the elimination of the slip ramps, but still not very pedestrian or bike friendly.

^ On a somewhat related note, 2 blocks south of that intersection, Central Parkway southbound has been limited from three to one travel lane due to construction. The road has been barricaded nonstop with large concrete barricades, for at least 3 weeks now. I drive that route into downtown almost every day during morning rush hour and this hasn't caused even the slightest delay or congestion. Central Parkway could also use a big road diet - by this measure it has 3 lanes but functions just fine with 1.

^^ They redid the intersection, and decided upon....putting the stop bar for bicycles BEHIND the one for cars?!?!?!!!!! wtf

According to Margy Waller, Council's approval of the FCC stadium infrastructure took away the funding source that was going to be used for the Liberty Street project.

^ Do you supposed that was strategic, or just the only available pool of money? By strategic I mean, do the stadium folks feel that a Liberty diet would harm their chosen location, in terms of access?

SHort term with the stadium, it is not wise to narrow Liberty. Need to make sure other transportation infrastructure is built first before such an endeavor is done.

I thought that I had heard casino street improvement funds were going to be used for Liberty.

 

Would that be the same or different as TIF money? I heard that the stadium infrastructure would draw heavily upon that.

 

Of course all this probably changes constantly...

^ Do you supposed that was strategic, or just the only available pool of money? By strategic I mean, do the stadium folks feel that a Liberty diet would harm their chosen location, in terms of access?

 

I would guess the latter. However, I think we only have a narrow period of time to move forward with the Liberty Street road diet. If the stadium opens and people get used to using Liberty Street as their connection between I-71 and the stadium, I think any hope of narrowing Liberty will be lost.

SHort term with the stadium, it is not wise to narrow Liberty. Need to make sure other transportation infrastructure is built first before such an endeavor is done.

 

What other traffic infrastructure are you suggesting we build before narrowing Liberty?

maybe a regional rail system, better bus service across town.

Well I'm not holding my breath for those things to happen. Central Parkway has plenty of excess capacity. Narrow Liberty Street and encourage thru traffic to use Central Parkway.

Under the Liberty Safety Improvement plan there are still two traffic lanes available in each direction just like there is today. The curb traffic lanes would become parking during off peak times (I would have liked 24/7 parking lanes and only one traffic lane in each direction but whatever.) So all you would need to do on game days to maintain the same capacity on Liberty as the current street would be to put up temporary “No Parking” signs.

The OTR Community Council agenda for the June 25th meeting had on its agenda an update regarding the Liberty Street project. Was anybody at the meeting to hear what was said?

 

http://otrcommunitycouncil.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/June-OTRCC-agenda.docx

http://otrcommunitycouncil.org/reports-minutes/

Hopefully the funding is there to get this project started next year

So has anyone heard anything on about what was said during the community council meeting?

Oddly, the city repaved the intersection of Sycamore and Liberty over the weekend. It's weird that they are doing so much work along Liberty (including the total redo of the Central Parkway & Liberty intersection) when the Road Diet is supposed to be happening soon.

Oddly, the city repaved the intersection of Sycamore and Liberty over the weekend. It's weird that they are doing so much work along Liberty (including the total redo of the Central Parkway & Liberty intersection) when the Road Diet is supposed to be happening soon.

 

I dont think any of that is coordinated. The one and only time my street was paved in CUF where i lived like 17yrs it was ripped up weeks later for new  gas meters & lines. Hopefully it was just time for pavement on the schedule.