March 6, 20241 yr Yes "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 6, 20241 yr Re: 200 Public Square. Can anyone explain to me how Namdar LLC makes money? I don’t really understand the business model. They just collect rent until most of the tenants leave because they don’t do any maintenance? Wouldn’t it be more profitable to try and improve an asset, increase usage and then raise prices?
April 6, 20241 yr Dracula became immortal by sucking the blood out of his victims. Similar business model. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 6, 20241 yr Maybe this will result in Cliffs building that new skyline changing HQ. Edited April 6, 20241 yr by LibertyBlvd
April 9, 20241 yr Cleveland skyscraper’s new owner plans upgrades By Ken Prendergast / April 8, 2024 Purchase of Downtown Cleveland’s third-tallest skyscraper last week was officially confirmed today by the skyscraper’s new owner. A partnership of Namdar Realty Group and Mason Asset Management, both of Long Island, NY, also said they have a formed a five-year capital plan to improve 200 Public Square and hired a new building manager to carry out that plan. Enhancing the retail offerings in the tower’s atrium for office tenants and nearby residential buildings is part of its goal. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2024/04/08/200-public-squares-new-owner-plans-upgrades/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 9, 20241 yr ^ An immediate no-brainer to improve the retail that’s there already, is to add some blade signs along Euclid. I don’t know if it’s the building, or the city who may be holding it back, but there’s the bank, the CC, a coffee shop all there, but looking down the street it just looks like a blank wall of nothing. My hovercraft is full of eels
April 16, 20241 yr On 2/5/2024 at 9:37 PM, KJP said: A follow-up....... Downtown Cleveland skyscraper sold to NY firm with big retail portfolio By Ken Prendergast / February 5, 2024 According to two sources, Downtown Cleveland’s third-tallest skyscraper has been sold to a New York-based company that has more than its share of cheap or faded retail properties including many in Ohio. But the parking garage for the skyscraper, 200 Public Square, was reportedly sold separately to a buyer in Chicago that owns downtown parking properties nationwide, one of the sources said. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2024/02/05/downtown-cleveland-skyscraper-sold-to-ny-firm-with-big-retail-portfolio/ I know we were ringing our hands a bit about the sale of 200 Public Square at such a low price (I think it was something like $54 mil), but I take solace from a news report I just read about a building in one of our peer cities. Apparently the former One AT&T Center in St Louis, the city's second tallest building at 44 stories and containing 1.46 million square feet just sold for around $3.6 mil. It last sold in 2006 for $205 million. It is a relatively newish building (1986) but apparently has been vacant for quite some time.
April 16, 20241 yr the problem is the property tax valuation is going to drastically drop for all office buildings.
April 16, 20241 yr Which means higher residential property taxes, new taxes and fees, and all kinds cost cutting. City budgets really rely on that income, and it'll have to be squeezed out elsewhere.
April 16, 20241 yr On 4/6/2024 at 11:14 AM, coneflower said: Re: 200 Public Square. Can anyone explain to me how Namdar LLC makes money? I don’t really understand the business model. They just collect rent until most of the tenants leave because they don’t do any maintenance? Wouldn’t it be more profitable to try and improve an asset, increase usage and then raise prices? For their shopping malls, they do zero maintenance and just collect rent. As the mall empties out, they split up and sell off the parcels. I think they paid around $10m for Severance and after a few years they split off and sold the Home Depot for about $10m. So all the rent they've been getting from Walmart (whose lease continued for a few years after they moved to Warrensville Rd) and Dave's Supermarket, OfficeMax, etc., all these years has been pure profit. And someday someone will come along and pay them another $10m to vacate and then they'll finally, reluctantly, move on. The business model is probably different for office towers, but they only own a few office towers, so we'll see.
April 16, 20241 yr 55 minutes ago, TBideon said: Which means higher residential property taxes, new taxes and fees, and all kinds cost cutting. City budgets really rely on that income, and it'll have to be squeezed out elsewhere. School districts are generally more impacted by property valuations (city budgets are largely driven by income tax), but the result is still the same--more burden on residential and other properties.
April 17, 20241 yr On 4/16/2024 at 2:32 PM, ink said: School districts are generally more impacted by property valuations (city budgets are largely driven by income tax), but the result is still the same--more burden on residential and other properties. While schools are based on property tax more so most if not all of school district income is millage based which means the overall income the school gets from property taxes do not change when values go up or down.
April 18, 20241 yr 4 hours ago, cle_guy90 said: While schools are based on property tax more so most if not all of school district income is millage based which means the overall income the school gets from property taxes do not change when values go up or down. Generally that is correct--although it depends on what types of levies schools have--but that also means that if one property drops in value, other properties have to pay more to make up the difference.
April 18, 20241 yr 9 hours ago, ink said: Generally that is correct--although it depends on what types of levies schools have--but that also means that if one property drops in value, other properties have to pay more to make up the difference. Yeah, here in the falls, I had my rental property go up 51% and my actual house go up 25%. Average for the city was 29%. So my rental property went up a huge amount and my actual house barely went up at all even with an additional levy passing for summit county disabilities.
April 18, 20241 yr Cross-posting from the suburban developments thread -- Progressive Campus 1 sale is latest victim of remote work "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 15, 20241 yr Cleveland-Cliffs commits to skyscraper By Ken Prendergast / May 15, 2024 Cleveland-Cliffs has put to rest rumors of its headquarters leaving downtown Cleveland’s third-tallest skyscraper for new digs by expanding and extending its lease at 200 Public Square. Not only did Cliffs add more space in the tower to just over 100,000 square feet, but it extended its lease there by another 10 years, according to a spokesman for the building’s leasing agent, Colliers International Group Inc. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2024/05/15/cleveland-cliffs-commits-to-skyscraper/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 15, 20241 yr Total occupied by Cliffs. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 16, 20241 yr When I saw the headline: Cleveland-Cliffs commits to skyscraper I thought at first you meant they commit to BUILDING a skyscraper lol. Got my hopes up for a fleeting second.
May 16, 20241 yr So what's the occupancy rate of the building currently? 100,000 square feet is less than 10% for Cliff's portion if I'm understanding this correctly.
May 16, 20241 yr This makes the most sense and, all in all, probably the best move for Cliffs and downtown. We're all still hoping for a US Steel buy so we'll just have to wait and see on that one.
May 17, 20241 yr On 5/16/2024 at 10:31 AM, dwolfi01 said: When I saw the headline: Cleveland-Cliffs commits to skyscraper I thought at first you meant they commit to BUILDING a skyscraper lol. Got my hopes up for a fleeting second. I made it just vague enough so that people would click on the article to see what exactly that means. It worked! 17,000 of you have viewed it so far. 😁 "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 21, 20241 yr Cohen to name its Downtown HQ tower By Ken Prendergast / May 21, 2024 With accounting and consulting firm Cohen & Co. growing its office staff in Downtown Cleveland and US Bank reducing its, there’s going to be a change at the top of the former Renaissance Center at Playhouse Square. Superior naming rights to the 1990-built, 16-story office building US Bank Centre, 1350 Euclid Ave., is going to pass to Cohen. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2024/05/21/cohen-to-name-its-downtown-hq-tower/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 30, 20241 yr Bad news.... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 30, 20241 yr ^ AmTrust was a big score back in 2011-2012. The business relocated from N. Carolina to Cleveland along with the suburban consolidation that Ken referenced. This is bad news for downtown but part of a nationwide trend of more remote work.
May 30, 20241 yr 25 minutes ago, freefourur said: ^ AmTrust was a big score back in 2011-2012. The business relocated from N. Carolina to Cleveland along with the suburban consolidation that Ken referenced. This is bad news for downtown but part of a nationwide trend of more remote work. Are they going 38 minutes ago, KJP said: Downtown’s AmTrust leaving, tower for sale By Ken Prendergast / May 30, 2024 New York-based insurer AmTrust Financial has had a significant and fast-growing office presence in Downtown Cleveland since 2011. But that’s about to come to a crashing end as it places its office tower, the 23-story 800 Superior, up for sale. AmTrust Financial also announced through its owner’s representative CBRE Cleveland that it intends to vacate the building in the next two years. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2024/05/30/downtowns-amtrust-leaving-tower-for-sale/ Is AMTrust going 100% remote work. Sorry if I missed it in the article but are they leaving the tower and going full remote or just leaving for another location?
May 30, 20241 yr 43 minutes ago, KJP said: Downtown’s AmTrust leaving, tower for sale By Ken Prendergast / May 30, 2024 New York-based insurer AmTrust Financial has had a significant and fast-growing office presence in Downtown Cleveland since 2011. But that’s about to come to a crashing end as it places its office tower, the 23-story 800 Superior, up for sale. AmTrust Financial also announced through its owner’s representative CBRE Cleveland that it intends to vacate the building in the next two years. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2024/05/30/downtowns-amtrust-leaving-tower-for-sale/ Sorry slightly off topic. I had to giggle slightly at all the replies under your Twitter post where folk thought the news was Browns related however as usual a quick read of your prior forum posts before a bomb pointed in a completely different direction. 😆
May 30, 20241 yr The office market everywhere is so distressed, I'm surprised there haven't been more stories like this. Although I've got a feeling there will be a few more stories like this before all is said and done. And we'll just have to make lemonade out of it. Seems like the building could be a great residential conversion.
May 30, 20241 yr Another residential conversion? Good grief. If most buildings downtown are residential, is that a good thing? I don't think so. Edited May 30, 20241 yr by LibertyBlvd
May 30, 20241 yr 6 minutes ago, Gabriel said: You clearly don't WFH. Right??? Truly one of the only tangible benefits workers have gained since they stopped letting children work the looms. Edited May 30, 20241 yr by bumsquare
May 30, 20241 yr 3 hours ago, Chazz Michael Michaels said: Are they going Is AMTrust going 100% remote work. Sorry if I missed it in the article but are they leaving the tower and going full remote or just leaving for another location? No info was given for their vacating the building or if they were going to a different building. Only that they were ending their lease. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 30, 20241 yr I doubt we are leaving downtown. Even pre-Covid only about 2/3 of the space was occupied. The parking situation was the straw that broke the camel’s back, if I had to guess. Definitely no indications of full WFH; plus, there is significant IT and mailing operations that won’t be going anywhere.
May 31, 20241 yr 13 hours ago, Ineffable_Matt said: I doubt we are leaving downtown. Even pre-Covid only about 2/3 of the space was occupied. The parking situation was the straw that broke the camel’s back, if I had to guess. Definitely no indications of full WFH; plus, there is significant IT and mailing operations that won’t be going anywhere. How much room is in the Oswald tower in the Flats?
May 31, 20241 yr 17 hours ago, LibertyBlvd said: Another residential conversion? Good grief. If most buildings downtown are residential, is that a good thing? I don't think so. Well think of it this way. When there's more residential downtown that should (finally?) trigger the need and justification for more retail, medical, services, etc. Then there's more jobs downtown and still tons of space near east side for future growth. It's an evolution.
May 31, 20241 yr Added a quote to the article in which AmTrust's rep says it's not leaving Greater Cleveland and noted the building is actually owned by Allstate even though numerous articles from 2011 said AmTrust bought it. Sorry about that. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 31, 20241 yr 5 minutes ago, KJP said: Added a quote to the article in which AmTrust's rep says it's not leaving Greater Cleveland and noted the building is actually owned by Allstate even though numerous articles from 2011 said AmTrust bought it. Sorry about that. Would be nice if they took space in another building downtown (even if smaller space because of WFH). A residential conversion + space from AmTrust in a new building just adds to the potential for new builds in the future. Because of WFH, we're unlikely to see major, single-tenant new builds in the future. However, that doesn't mean that the new for new class A space will go away. If just means that companies may be looking for less space in the future and maybe that space is in large mixed-use developments rather than office only space. Cleveland leading the nation in residential conversions gives them a head start on the potential for new, interesting mixed-use builds in the future. Hopefully Amtrust is just an example of this trend.
May 31, 20241 yr 15 hours ago, Gabriel said: You clearly don't WFH. I know. It's easy for me to say it especially when l'm retired. But l still believe there are benifits to working on the job. Benifits like creating relationships or those random conversations that create an idea or a better way to do something not to mention what is perhaps the best reason. Which is working along people can foster more positive mental health. Social isolation can create problems. Selfishly, l think WFH is bad for downtown on so many levels but of course there are many positive reasons as well. Actually l think the best approach is the hybrid model. 3 or 4 days on the job and 1 or 2 at home. Regardless of the approach WFH is here to stay.
May 31, 20241 yr 22 minutes ago, surfohio said: Well think of it this way. When there's more residential downtown that should (finally?) trigger the need and justification for more retail, medical, services, etc. Then there's more jobs downtown and still tons of space near east side for future growth. It's an evolution. I look at it this way. People have commuted to work in at office buildings in densely populated urban cores for maybe 80-100 years. People have lived in densely populated urban cores for all of recorded history. I firmly believe that the people, i.e. the residents, form the basis for a strong community and the other items just get layered on top. There's obviously a little bit of a chicken and egg thing because people live where they can find a good job. But that's also a relatively modern phenomenon based on social mobility. Even now, 80% of Americans live near at least one member of their extended family, and about 70% of Americans live in or around the city where they were born. So there again, people live where their people are, and the basic foundation for a city is the residents it has, not the office space. As an aside, I think the move to remote work is going to be a huge net benefit for Cleveland over the coming decades due to three factors (1) we already have relatively few of the jobs that are being remote-ed (mostly tech/it/finance) and relatively many of the jobs that cannot be remote-ed (health care, manufacturing), (2) we have had a disproportionate amount of population losses to other states for job reasons over the last three decades (i.e. disproportionate potential for boomerangs), and (3) we have a very low cost of living relative to most of the country and even relative to Columbus and Cincinnati. All of these factors mean that if you take a randomly selected pool of workers in a previously office-bound job who now can work remotely and live wherever they want, there should be more moving into Cleveland than out of Cleveland.
May 31, 20241 yr So if more folks are living downtown and their office is also downtown, do they still need to work from home if they can just walk down the street to the office?
May 31, 20241 yr 2 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said: So if more folks are living downtown and their office is also downtown, do they still need to work from home if they can just walk down the street to the office? That's the thing; they don't. And so eventually, you may get more office development as a result. Just to bolster one of my previous points a bit--there is lots of anecdotal evidence that what I am describing is happening. I like to play the game of looking at recently sold houses in my area on Zillow and seeing if I can find out anything about who bought the house. I have on numerous occasions seen a house purchased by a couple where one spouse recently started at the Cleveland Clinic and the other spouse has a remote job for an out-of-state company, or sometimes where a single person or both spouses have an out-of-state remote work job.
May 31, 20241 yr 19 hours ago, KJP said: Downtown’s AmTrust leaving, tower for sale By Ken Prendergast / May 30, 2024 New York-based insurer AmTrust Financial has had a significant and fast-growing office presence in Downtown Cleveland since 2011. But that may come to an end as the location of its offices, the 23-story 800 Superior, is now up for sale by an affiliate of Allstate Insurance. AmTrust Financial also announced that it intends to vacate its offices from the building in the next two years but intends to remain in Greater Cleveland. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2024/05/30/downtowns-amtrust-leaving-tower-for-sale/ Amtrust's other principal location is 59 Maiden Lane, NYC. Barry Zyskind, CEO of Amtrust is the son-in-law of George and Leah Karfunkel, who own 59 Maiden Lane and are liable for a $200mn mortgage on it. I'm guessing we won't see any shrinkage at 59 Maiden Lane. Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
May 31, 20241 yr 53 minutes ago, LlamaLawyer said: As an aside, I think the move to remote work is going to be a huge net benefit for Cleveland over the coming decades.... I can personally attest to this. The only reason I'm in CLE right now is because my company gave the work from home-hybrid option after Covid. It's a best of both worlds scenario for me. I wouldn't even be in Ohio otherwise, as my office is in California. And right now my desk there is probably covered with interoffice mail that I don't even want to think about haha.
May 31, 20241 yr 32 minutes ago, surfohio said: I can personally attest to this. The only reason I'm in CLE right now is because my company gave the work from home-hybrid option after Covid. It's a best of both worlds scenario for me. I wouldn't even be in Ohio otherwise, as my office is in California. And right now my desk there is probably covered with interoffice mail that I don't even want to think about haha. This is the same story for me except I was living in another state/big city. I have actually looked for jobs with the intention of working downtown and for what I do (office work) I rarely see any openings.
June 1, 20241 yr 21 hours ago, LibertyBlvd said: So if more folks are living downtown and their office is also downtown, do they still need to work from home if they can just walk down the street to the office? Better: if someone is living in Downtown Cleveland but their company's token office is in the suburbs or another city, and they're fully remote, then their office is in Downtown Cleveland. BTW, if you hadn't noticed yet, I totally screwed the pooch on that AmTrust story. AmTrust isn't leaving 800 Superior; National General is. Their parent company Allstate owns the building and is selling it. Principals of AmTrust use to own it. They bought it in 2011, which is what I remember from when I was 44 years old and that memory stuck with me, not the more recent sale of the LLC to Allstate. Sometimes getting old scares the crap of out me and what a dithering dope I'm going to be in 10, 20 years. The new and hopefully correct article is here: https://neo-trans.blog/2024/05/30/downtowns-800-superior-for-sale-big-tenant-leaving/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 1, 20241 yr 1 hour ago, KJP said: Better: if someone is living in Downtown Cleveland but their company's token office is in the suburbs or another city, and they're fully remote, then their office is in Downtown Cleveland. BTW, if you hadn't noticed yet, I totally screwed the pooch on that AmTrust story. AmTrust isn't leaving 800 Superior; National General is. Their parent company Allstate owns the building and is selling it. Principals of AmTrust use to own it. They bought it in 2011, which is what I remember from when I was 44 years old and that memory stuck with me, not the more recent sale of the LLC to Allstate. Sometimes getting old scares the crap of out me and what a dithering dope I'm going to be in 10, 20 years. The new and hopefully correct article is here: https://neo-trans.blog/2024/05/30/downtowns-800-superior-for-sale-big-tenant-leaving/ Takes a big man to admit an error - so kudos to you. Glad to hear Amtrust is staying - and curious to see where National General lands.
June 3, 20241 yr On 5/31/2024 at 10:40 AM, cadmen said: I know. It's easy for me to say it especially when l'm retired. But l still believe there are benifits to working on the job. Benifits like creating relationships or those random conversations that create an idea or a better way to do something not to mention what is perhaps the best reason. Which is working along people can foster more positive mental health. Social isolation can create problems. Selfishly, l think WFH is bad for downtown on so many levels but of course there are many positive reasons as well. Actually l think the best approach is the hybrid model. 3 or 4 days on the job and 1 or 2 at home. Regardless of the approach WFH is here to stay. While I don't work in downtown CLE, I work from home 50% of the time. Our team is split, so when half are WFH, the other half is in the office and we alternate days. While there are benefits to me as an individual and to the organization (lower space requirements), it definitely hurts the synergy of our team.
June 13, 20241 yr Mortgage spat puts downtown building on market By Ken Prendergast / June 13, 2024 In a weak office market, another office property has been listed for sale. But this time, a Downtown Cleveland property is hitting the market because Cuyahoga County Common Pleas Court Judge Cassandra Collier-Williams ordered it to, so as to resolve a foreclosure complaint. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2024/06/13/mortgage-spat-puts-downtown-building-on-market/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
June 13, 20241 yr 21 minutes ago, KJP said: Mortgage spat puts downtown building on market By Ken Prendergast / June 13, 2024 In a weak office market, another office property has been listed for sale. But this time, a Downtown Cleveland property is hitting the market because Cuyahoga County Common Pleas Court Judge Cassandra Collier-Williams ordered it to, so as to resolve a foreclosure complaint. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2024/06/13/mortgage-spat-puts-downtown-building-on-market/ Lol, the garage of this building is where I park my car, as well as the other residents for across the street. We used to park in the garage at 1060 Bolivar when it was sold and construction started for the apartments shown in the photo here. If you need any inside scoop on this Ken, just let me know and I'll do some digging! 🤣
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