I'd say that's a clear indication they'll be consolodating the offices like they did in central Ohio. Hopefully this is a prelude to 400 more jobs moving downtown in a few years :D

Surprised no one (sorry Steve -- you posted as I was still typing this) here has chimed in on the above story. It's apparent Medical Mutual will consolidate it's NE Ohio employees in a single location in four years. It won't be their current building on East 9th after all. It's too small to accommodate much more than what's there now. So the question is, where?

 

Four years isn't a lot of time. Two years for construction. One year or more for design, city approvals, procurement, etc. So that leaves maybe six months to decide where to build....

 

I know I've got an obsession for the Jacobs lot on Public Square. But Medical Mutual consolidated their Central Ohio employees in downtown Columbus in a high-profile location by the State House. If that approach is an indication for their larger NE Ohio presence, the Jacobs lot would be consistent with what they did in Columbus.

God, let's hope that's the case, and that the answer isn't instead a sprawling complex in Chagrin Highlands

My first thought was that they might be going in Nucleus, but when I think about it there's probably not enough office space for MM and the current commitments. And if it were going to be any currently built buildings (isn't there a bunch of empty space in Key Tower atm since Key downsized their space), why move these offices to this short term lease? I don't recall Weston having a major office component, but I'm sure that could always be added at this stage, and we'd probably be hearing more of the proposed office building at FEB if that was on their radar. I may be biased towards the Jacobs eyesore, but I think that may be the most probable locations for a new MM HQ.

Medical Mutual's space needs, if they consolidate their NE Ohio employees in one building, are probably close to 1 million square feet. For comparison, Key Tower is 1.3 million square feet.

 

Eaton Corp.'s big campus in Highland Hills is 580,000 square feet. A Medical Mutual suburban campus could be almost twice as large.

 

Edit: so the only proposed building that's big enough and could accommodate MM is Weston's proposed 37-story building that could be residential or offices on the SE corner of the superblock. Ironically, that's right next to the Jacobs lot.

 

Edit2: Geis' multi-building conceptual development near Burke might also be big enough. Maybe.

Are there no mostly vacant office buildings downtown that would fit the bill?

^The old Huntington, which is off the table.

 

This is definitely EXCITING- I'm really hoping the city's administration is paying attention.

Medical Mutual's space needs, if they consolidate their NE Ohio employees in one building, are probably close to 1 million square feet. For comparison, Key Tower is 1.3 million square feet.

 

KJP, how are you getting up to 1 million?  Their new short term space in Strongsville will house 400 people in 89k sf. With that same sf/employee, consolidating all 1,700 NEO workers would require less than 400k sf of leasable space. Even if the downtown contingent required 50% more sf/employee for some reason (auditorium? more conference rooms?), it's still much less than 1M, no?

 

I hope all this is good news, but the risk of a new suburban campus will worry me somewhat till we hear more.

Is there any effective difference in the demand for square footage when going from a chopped up building like the Rose to a more modern floorplate format?

 

^Was wondering the same. Rounding up Downtown and Strongsville buildings they get to 500,000 sqft.

I see where my math went wrong. I based it on this portion from the recent PD article...

 

Chaney acknowledged that the company, which occupies 381,000 square feet downtown, is evaluating its options for future headquarters space. Medical Mutual employs more than 1,000 people downtown and nearly 670 at other Northeast Ohio sites, including a Strongsville office, a Beachwood data center and a facility in Copley. Its total workforce is close to 2,400 employees.

 

"We can stay where we are," Chaney said. "We can go rent or buy someplace else. Or we can build a building. And, right now, they're all weighted equally."

 

SOURCE: http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2016/01/medical_mutual_hq_mortgage_in.html

 

So we're looking at perhaps 381 square feet per employee based on their current downtown usage. Where I went wrong was assuming that 2,400-employee figure was for NE Ohio. Instead it's company-wide. So I took the 381 square feet and multiplied it by all of the 2,400 employees to come up with 914,400 square feet. Wrong.

 

Rather....

 

If all 1,700 NE Ohio employees are consolidated into one building, it could be about 647,700 square feet. With floorplates averaging 30,000 square feet, that's 21-22 stories. With floorplates of 25,000 square feet, that's 26 stories. With floorplates of 20,000 square feet, that's 32-33 stores (none of these include parking levels within a new tower). If they need more space (or less) for a modern office concept, it could require 700,000 square feet or more (or perhaps 600,000 square feet or less). And if they have plans for expansion, add a contingency for more office space.

BTW, still lots of vacant land left at Chagrin Highlands, including a very high-profile location at the SE quadrant of I-271 and Harvard, across from the new Pinecrest development. But in other major cities, companies in the suburbs are moving downtown. In Cleveland, however, we're still living in the 20th century....

 

 

 

Or perhaps something stunning like this 27-story Calgary tower (or can be a lot taller in a mixed-use building) but with Medical Mutual's name lit up and facing a redesigned and rejuvenated Public Square....

 

Hopefully Medical Mutual's Columbus consolidation is a sign that their corporate culture prefers downtown offices.

I get the impression they are a cheerleader for Cleveland and downtown. Not sure where I am getting that from but hopefully I am correct and they continue/increase the momentum in the city center.

An additional thought (as I used to live right across from that office) is it seems a lot of people use transit/get dropped off. Hopefully that plays into their site selection.

BTW, still lots of vacant land left at Chagrin Highlands, including a very high-profile location at the SE quadrant of I-271 and Harvard, across from the new Pinecrest development. But in other major cities, companies in the suburbs are moving downtown. In Cleveland, however, we're still living in the 20th century....

 

More specifically like the 1950s and 60s when freeways, strip development and suburban office campuses were the hot things.  As there any other city that has developed a suburban "city" as extensive as Crocker Park?  ... the only one that's comparable in my mind is Mizner Park in South Florida... The difference being that Mizner was begun in the 1920s IIRC and has grown over the decades; plus it's within Boca Raton, which has long been the free-standing, ritzy suburban city that's about 50 miles north of Miami... Crocker Park is unusual esp for a medium scale metro area like Greater Cleveland.  Chargin Highlands is a disjointed, sprawling mess imho.

BTW, still lots of vacant land left at Chagrin Highlands, including a very high-profile location at the SE quadrant of I-271 and Harvard, across from the new Pinecrest development. But in other major cities, companies in the suburbs are moving downtown. In Cleveland, however, we're still living in the 20th century....

 

More specifically like the 1950s and 60s when freeways, strip development and suburban office campuses were the hot things.  As there any other city that has developed a suburban "city" as extensive as Crocker Park?  ... the only one that's comparable in my mind is Mizner Park in South Florida... The difference being that Mizner was begun in the 1920s IIRC and has grown over the decades; plus it's within Boca Raton, which has long been the free-standing, ritzy suburban city that's about 50 miles north of Miami... Crocker Park is unusual esp for a medium scale metro area like Greater Cleveland.  Chargin Highlands is a disjointed, sprawling mess imho.

 

 

Easton down in Columbus is waaay bigger than Crocker Park. The caveat that while suburban in character the development is within the Columbus corporate limits.

BTW, still lots of vacant land left at Chagrin Highlands, including a very high-profile location at the SE quadrant of I-271 and Harvard, across from the new Pinecrest development. But in other major cities, companies in the suburbs are moving downtown. In Cleveland, however, we're still living in the 20th century....

 

More specifically like the 1950s and 60s when freeways, strip development and suburban office campuses were the hot things.  As there any other city that has developed a suburban "city" as extensive as Crocker Park?  ... the only one that's comparable in my mind is Mizner Park in South Florida... The difference being that Mizner was begun in the 1920s IIRC and has grown over the decades; plus it's within Boca Raton, which has long been the free-standing, ritzy suburban city that's about 50 miles north of Miami... Crocker Park is unusual esp for a medium scale metro area like Greater Cleveland.  Chargin Highlands is a disjointed, sprawling mess imho.

To me, Crocker Park is more impressive because of the amount of residential included than the retail. One would expect more because of the amount of money around it. The development itself is pretty good although I would have liked a more urban Lakewood feel than a cul-de-sac. Mizner Park is only impressive because it's an extremely rich area. Residential surrounds it as opposed to being "included" and the urban feel of it is more out of necessity because of space restrictions in south Florida, especially near the beach. They both beat Eton etc by miles though.

BTW, still lots of vacant land left at Chagrin Highlands, including a very high-profile location at the SE quadrant of I-271 and Harvard, across from the new Pinecrest development. But in other major cities, companies in the suburbs are moving downtown. In Cleveland, however, we're still living in the 20th century....

 

More specifically like the 1950s and 60s when freeways, strip development and suburban office campuses were the hot things.  As there any other city that has developed a suburban "city" as extensive as Crocker Park?  ... the only one that's comparable in my mind is Mizner Park in South Florida... The difference being that Mizner was begun in the 1920s IIRC and has grown over the decades; plus it's within Boca Raton, which has long been the free-standing, ritzy suburban city that's about 50 miles north of Miami... Crocker Park is unusual esp for a medium scale metro area like Greater Cleveland.  Chargin Highlands is a disjointed, sprawling mess imho.

To me, Crocker Park is more impressive because of the amount of residential included than the retail. One would expect more because of the amount of money around it. The development itself is pretty good although I would have liked a more urban Lakewood feel than a cul-de-sac. Mizner Park is only impressive because it's an extremely rich area. Residential surrounds it as opposed to being "included" and the urban feel of it is more out of necessity because of space restrictions in south Florida, especially near the beach. They both beat Eton etc by miles though.

 

There's still that cul de sac across the street from Crocker Park.  Earlierr in this thread or another, someone who works there has heard the word "campus" used a lot.

BTW, still lots of vacant land left at Chagrin Highlands, including a very high-profile location at the SE quadrant of I-271 and Harvard, across from the new Pinecrest development. But in other major cities, companies in the suburbs are moving downtown. In Cleveland, however, we're still living in the 20th century....

 

A lot of that is because the city doesn't have it's schtuff together.  Therefore, there needs to be either a compelling business reason or a strong executive preference for being downtown.  Throw in Cleveland getting half the income taxes from Highlands companies while incurring 0% of the expenses.

BTW, still lots of vacant land left at Chagrin Highlands, including a very high-profile location at the SE quadrant of I-271 and Harvard, across from the new Pinecrest development. But in other major cities, companies in the suburbs are moving downtown. In Cleveland, however, we're still living in the 20th century....

 

A lot of that is because the city doesn't have it's schtuff together.  Therefore, there needs to be either a compelling business reason or a strong executive preference for being downtown.  Throw in Cleveland getting half the income taxes from Highlands companies while incurring 0% of the expenses.

 

Actually, this quadrant already has something in the works, remember?

 

Chagrin Highlands could gain Drury hotel, restaurants, offices on 78-acre Orange site

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2015/12/chagrin_highlands_could_gain_d.html

 

Thanks for reminding. Forgot about that.

 

A lot of that is because the city doesn't have it's schtuff together.  Therefore, there needs to be either a compelling business reason or a strong executive preference for being downtown.  Throw in Cleveland getting half the income taxes from Highlands companies while incurring 0% of the expenses.

 

The city's getting income taxes without spending anything? Sounds like the city's got it schtuff together to me!

Hopefully Medical Mutual's Columbus consolidation is a sign that their corporate culture prefers downtown offices.

 

+1

 

I would hope a new tower on Public Sq, or at least a downtown location in CLE is at the top of their list. It would seem to be keeping with MM's corporate culture of both seeking a highly visible presence in the urban core as well as being very civic-minded.

 

Here in CBUS, they not only consolidated their offices onto Capitol Sq, but also around that same time signed on (to the tune of $1.25M) as the presenting sponsor of our bike share. That system is focused on downtown and adjacent neighborhoods, and together the moves have increased their visibility in the community many-fold.

Kennametal is still looking for a new HQ, although it prefers to stay in Pittsburgh

http://www.post-gazette.com/business/development/2016/02/04/Kennametal-considers-former-LTV-site-in-Hazelwood-for-headquarters/stories/201602040109

So they're just throwing out other city names to get more money from PA/Pittsburgh.

^ Seems like they prefer a suburban-style campus anyway. It would be awesome if they somehow choose downtown Cleveland, but I highly highly doubt it will happen. I hope the City is at least making an effort to reach out to them, though. It couldn't hurt.

Thanks for reminding. Forgot about that.

 

A lot of that is because the city doesn't have it's schtuff together.  Therefore, there needs to be either a compelling business reason or a strong executive preference for being downtown.  Throw in Cleveland getting half the income taxes from Highlands companies while incurring 0% of the expenses.

 

The city's getting income taxes without spending anything? Sounds like the city's got it schtuff together to me!

 

To get money, yes.  But not to attract new business.  There's also less incentive to compete when the target is likely to end up in Highlands.

^ I still think the city would rather push to collect the full income tax, instead of just half if they were to move to Chagrin Highlands. If they don't, then they really don't have their schtuff together.

^ I still think the city would rather push to collect the full income tax, instead of just half if they were to move to Chagrin Highlands. If they don't, then they really don't have their schtuff together.

 

Then they have to do things like expedite construction permitting, worry about infrastructure, etc....

Cross-posted in the downtown residential news thread...

 

Downtown Cleveland transportation options attract residents, workers

WKYC staff  11:21 AM. EST February 03, 2016

 

CLEVELAND -- – Downtown Cleveland Alliance today released the Downtown Cleveland Market Update for the fourth quarter of 2015. This quarterly report reveals a comprehensive overview of recent developments in Downtown Cleveland housing, office, retail, hospitality and transportation trends.

 

As Downtown Cleveland continues to grow its residential population and attracts businesses, the many transportation options in the urban core are increasingly important. Four out of five millennials have reported wanting a variety of transportation options for commuting to work and daily activities. Downtown Cleveland’s easy access to public transit, walkability and amenity rich neighborhoods makes it a desirable location to live, work and play. Since 2010, the overall ridership of the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit has grown five percent, with Downtown trolley ridership growing 62 percent.

 

MORE:

http://www.wkyc.com/news/downtown-cleveland-transportation-options-attract-residents-workers/31459964

Cross-posted in the downtown residential news thread...

 

Downtown Cleveland transportation options attract residents, workers

WKYC staff  11:21 AM. EST February 03, 2016

 

CLEVELAND -- – Downtown Cleveland Alliance today released the Downtown Cleveland Market Update for the fourth quarter of 2015. This quarterly report reveals a comprehensive overview of recent developments in Downtown Cleveland housing, office, retail, hospitality and transportation trends.

 

As Downtown Cleveland continues to grow its residential population and attracts businesses, the many transportation options in the urban core are increasingly important. Four out of five millennials have reported wanting a variety of transportation options for commuting to work and daily activities. Downtown Cleveland’s easy access to public transit, walkability and amenity rich neighborhoods makes it a desirable location to live, work and play. Since 2010, the overall ridership of the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit has grown five percent, with Downtown trolley ridership growing 62 percent.

 

MORE:

http://www.wkyc.com/news/downtown-cleveland-transportation-options-attract-residents-workers/31459964

 

Channel 3 doesn't identify "sponsor content" the way the PeeDee does?

It's not sponsor content. It's rip-and-read. A retyped press release. When you fire all of your union, professional journalists and replace them with cub reporters fresh out of J-school, retyped press releases are what you get.

It's not sponsor content. It's rip-and-read. A retyped press release. When you fire all of your union, professional journalists and replace them with cub reporters fresh out of J-school, retyped press releases are what you get.

You mean they didn't even get paid to post that advertorial?

Correct, thus it's not an advertorial. We had an advertorial reporter at Sun whose job was to write up special sections that were paid for by advertisers.

 

And BTW, I don't think what the DCA posted was inaccurate. They issued a report. A media outlet covered the release, but didn't seek out any contra-data or counter viewpoints. Ever since the FCC rescinded the Mayflower Doctrine and, more importantly, the Fairness Doctrine, advertisers have gained more control over the editorial content of media. This coincided with the decline of unions and real wages nationally while reporters were urged to produce more and more content. So the only way that could be accomplished is to turn around "copy" quickly, and that means simply re-typing what press release writers provide to them.

 

So as long as folks like DCA keep issuing reports, the media will regurgitate them. Some are accurate reports. Some aren't. Most are in between. I think this report is partially true. It's only partially true because downtown office workers and residents having more stuff (shops, restaurants, parks, etc) downtown within walking distance is a bigger factor. But having transit to reach stuff farther away is of a secondary importance, but still important.

Take THAT Oak Tree Blvd.!

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20160217/NEWS/160219822/the-siegfried-group-plots-growth-moves-to-new-space-in-ey-office

Key Center sale might be looming

Owner of Ohio's tallest building in talks with 'awarded buyers'

February 21, 2016 UPDATED 12 HOURS AGO

By STAN BULLARD

 

A towering transaction is looming for downtown Cleveland, as Key Center owner Columbia Property Trust is in talks with a prospective buyer for the 57-story skyscraper, the tallest in Ohio, and its attached Marriott hotel.

 

That’s the word directly from Nelson Mills, the Atlanta-based company’s president and CEO. Mills said Columbia is in talks with what he called “awarded buyers” for the 1.3-million square foot office building and 400-room hotel, as well as two other office buildings outside Ohio that it is marketing for sale.

 

According to the Seeking Alpha transcript of the publicly traded real estate investment trust’s Feb. 12 conference call on its 2015 year-end results, Mills noted he anticipates “these sales will close within the next couple of months and at that time, we’ll be able to provide more color on the process.”

 

MORE:

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20160221/NEWS/160219722/key-center-sale-might-be-looming

Distressed downtown office building gets new owner

February 22, 2016 UPDATED 17 HOURS AGO

By STAN BULLARD   

 

The Sterling Building, 1255 Euclid Ave., is back in local hands after an investor group paid $7.1 million to buy it from an affiliate of Lone Star Funds, the Dallas-based private equity firm with a big business buying and operating distressed properties with lenders.

 

Public records indicate principals in the new ownership group may be associated with BlueBridge Networks LLC, a tech tenant in the building,

 

In this case, the new owner, named Sterling Linder Holdings LLC, bought the five-story building from LSR OREO 2 LLC on Thursday, Feb. 18, according to online records of the Cuyahoga County Fiscal Office.

 

The name seems a bit of a joke as the building — today heavy with tech tenants — has been offices for decades, but it once housed the famed and defunct Sterling Lindner Department store.

 

However, the property’s history the last few years has not been comical.

 

MORE:

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20160222/NEWS/160229971/distressed-downtown-office-building-gets-new-owner

Such an ugly building now.  Wish they could renovate... or at least fix the side facing the Union Club.  It looks awful.

^ The facade on that side had some issues a while back, not sure if they only did a patch job but agreed.

Sad thing is this building probably used to have a beautiful facade. From what I understand it was "modernized" in the 40s or 50s to look like how we see it today.

Yes, they did repair the side facing the union club after some storm damage I believe but it still looks terrible.  I found this from 1968. Hard to believe it could be the same building. I don't know that anything still exists beneath the current facade.

Definitely need a then-n-now pic from the same angle to compare with the 1968 pic.

 

Definitely need a then-n-now pic from the same angle to compare with the 1968 pic.

 

 

 

Pretty close

Found this tidbit of site/building history from the comment section of the Crains article interesting:

 

Tim Evanson • 3 hours ago

"Just a bit of history: Amasa Stone was a Cleveland railroader and banker who was mega-super

influential from about 1860 to his death in 1883. He built a home at

1255 Euclid Avenue (then known as "Millionaire's Row"). The house got

torn down in 1909, after his wife and daughter died, and Higbee's

Department Store built a new building on the site. That's the building that's there now.

 

Higbee's moved out in 1931, and the Sterling Lindner department store moved in. Sterling Lindner

moved out in 1968, and it's been offices ever since."

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20160222/NEWS/160229971/distressed-downtown-office-building-gets-new-owner

Yes, they did repair the side facing the union club after some storm damage I believe but it still looks terrible.  I found this from 1968. Hard to believe it could be the same building. I don't know that anything still exists beneath the current facade.

Ew

Ew, what? The architecture before or after?

That building is a dump.  Chopped up crappy offices, county had 911 services there, cables draped all over the place.  Basically worthless except for data center user

Yes, they did repair the side facing the union club after some storm damage I believe but it still looks terrible.  I found this from 1968. Hard to believe it could be the same building. I don't know that anything still exists beneath the current facade.

 

normally I go with the old facade, but I think it looks better now... leave it until it's torn down and replaced with playhouse tower...  :-)

Ew, what? The architecture before or after?

 

I think he's commenting on the gritty "seventies-ness" of the original pic.

Ew, what? The architecture before or after?

 

I think he's commenting on the gritty "seventies-ness" of the original pic.

 

Also, Playhouse Square is so much more pedestrian friendly today than it was back then. US Bank Plaza didn't exist.

Ew

 

Nice Barracuda at least.  :)