September 28, 20186 yr A SW campus on the Scranton Peninsula would obey their founding charter's distance requirements and probably be more affordable. It would rob us of a tower, though. Look at how peeved Cincy is that Proctor and Gamble has those two little towers instead of something more prominent If SW wanted a campus on the water, they already own 10 acres of land on the riverfront around their technology center. What is SW more likely to do -- (1) build new on the riverfront, (2) consolidate into a new skyscraper, (3) build over the rail lines adjacent to Landmark, (4) nothing at all? I recall that it was a hot rumor at a SW sales meeting in Orlando a couple years ago that SW would be a new headquarters in the Flats, and that the announcement would be made at that sales meeting. Obviously nothing ever came of it. But it was an interesting locating to be rumored. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 29, 20186 yr This article is entirely about Cleveland and provides lots of office occupancy data.... Midwest Downtowns Have Come Back to Life By Brian J. Rogal | September 28, 2018 at 08:44 AM “It shows demand is over weighted significantly toward trophy and other class A assets, largely because companies are hyper-focused on recruitment and retention,” Andrew Batson, JLL’s vice president of research, tells GlobeSt.com. Of the roughly 2.5 million square feet of class A space, just 13% remains vacant. “That’s a very healthy vacancy rate, especially for a secondary market in the Midwest.” JLL classifies Key Tower, Ernst & Young Tower and 200 Public Square, which together total nearly 3.2 million square feet, as trophy-class buildings, and due to advanced technology and full suites of amenities, these premier office properties fare even better. The vacancy rate for this set now stands at just 9%. At 5%, the Ernst & Young building, completed in 2013, has the lowest rate among the three. And with a $32.00 average, it ties Key Tower for the city’s highest asking rent. Those vacancy rates have fallen partly because suburban firms increasingly see downtown as a viable option. When it comes to attracting suburbanites, “some cities like Chicago are a few years ahead of us,” Batson says. Still, JLL found 25 Cleveland-area companies that made the switch in the past five years, bringing more than 2,000 jobs to the city and absorbing about 500,000 square feet of space. MORE: https://www.globest.com/2018/09/28/midwest-downtowns-have-come-back-to-life You can get around the registration but UO posting rules prevent me from revealing how. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 29, 20186 yr Interesting tweets from @DowntownCLE “Our trend is we are moving more people to Cleveland. We’ll continue to need more housing.” - Lydia Shinn - Manager, Corporate Recruitment, Medical Mutual of Ohio “They are looking for housing in their building where they don’t have to get in a car to eat or find entertainment.” - Lydia Shinn on what talent is looking for in amenities when they move here “It shows demand is over weighted significantly toward trophy and other class A assets, largely because companies are hyper-focused on recruitment and retention,” Andrew Batson, JLL’s vice president of research, tells GlobeSt.com. And yet Medical Mutual chose not to build a new tower in a place like downtown that's not car dependent. So these quotes mean that talk is cheap, certainly cheaper than a new office building. BTW, I just realized. The first quote suggests MM is moving people from its other offices around Ohio to Cleveland. MM has offices in Cincinnati, Columbus, Toledo, Strongsville (soon to be Brooklyn), and its downtown Cleveland HQ. MM's lease of its Toledo building expires in 2020. Can anyone shed some insight? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 29, 20186 yr Based on some back-of-the-envelope math I've seen, if those $32 'trophy' rents can get up closer to $40, we will have our new office tower... without touching school district $$. Vacancy is tightening so we will see what happens with those rents.
September 30, 20186 yr Could some of the more easily achievable subsidies (property tax abatement, tax-exempt bonds, reduced-rate port authority financing, TIF, etc) fill the gap? And then there's the Opportunity Zone tax benefits that's coming and the transformational credit that's near to being approved. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 30, 20186 yr I think the $40 number includes the City of Cleveland TIFing the 40% share of the property taxes - the schools still get their 60% and all indications show that politically that is how it's going to be. Port Authority/tax exempt debt, if available, I would guess could inch down the required rents by a dollar or two. Keep in mind, land costs are a wild card. I haven't seen a ton of speculation on how opportunity zones are going to change things, but just on my own reading of the statute, it's going to be huge. With Downtown Cleveland being an opportunity zone, for office specifically, that's a big playing-field-leveler between Downtown and a greenfield office park. This is exactly what public policy should do. There also is the nuCLEus bill which you mentioned, and also I've heard the state is looking at creating an opportunity zone bill which gives benefits for state taxes as well as federal for the same investments. All of these things could finally push us over the edge.
September 30, 20186 yr I hadn't heard about the Ohio version of the Opportunity Zone, but i found a summary of it here.... https://real-estate.kmklaw.com/proposed-ohio-opportunity-zone-tax-credit Even if that doesn't pass in this session, the federally authorized Opportunity Funds should be a big boost, like you say. But the O-Zone funding won't become available until next year and it remains to be seen how much funding will be available early on, especially if funding is sought from capital gains deposited in an OZ fund. But some funky property transactions may start occurring soon to quickly realize tax benefits from an OZ fund. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 30, 20186 yr Interesting tweets from @DowntownCLE “Our trend is we are moving more people to Cleveland. We’ll continue to need more housing.” - Lydia Shinn - Manager, Corporate Recruitment, Medical Mutual of Ohio “They are looking for housing in their building where they don’t have to get in a car to eat or find entertainment.” - Lydia Shinn on what talent is looking for in amenities when they move here “It shows demand is over weighted significantly toward trophy and other class A assets, largely because companies are hyper-focused on recruitment and retention,” Andrew Batson, JLL’s vice president of research, tells GlobeSt.com. And yet Medical Mutual chose not to build a new tower in a place like downtown that's not car dependent. So these quotes mean that talk is cheap, certainly cheaper than a new office building. BTW, I just realized. The first quote suggests MM is moving people from its other offices around Ohio to Cleveland. MM has offices in Cincinnati, Columbus, Toledo, Strongsville (soon to be Brooklyn), and its downtown Cleveland HQ. MM's lease of its Toledo building expires in 2020. Can anyone shed some insight? Those quotes don't reflect any sort of corporate direction. I assume she's talking about young web/app developers that they have been hiring downtown lately. There is a reshuffling that's going to take place to redistribute the workforces in Copley, Hinkley Pkwy, Beachwood, and Strongsville between Rose and Brooklyn by 2020.
October 1, 20186 yr She used the word "trend" and she recognized that their new recruits want to live in a setting where they don't have to depend on a car. And yet roughly half of MM's northern Ohio workforce will be working in car-dependent office buildings. Like I said, talk is cheap. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 1, 20186 yr So back to our favorite hoped-for new skyscraper HQ, here's two of the four buildings that accommodate Sherwin Williams' existing HQ -- the massive, 88-year-old Landmark Office Buildings (it would make a wonderful residential conversion) and the neighboring, 28-year-old Skylight Office Building, both part of the Tower City Center complex. This is a view I shot on Saturday, looking up from the parking lot below Huron and above Canal that used to be the Cleveland Union Terminal Coach Yards for 40 years... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 1, 20186 yr This thread turned into the Player Haters Ball quick. Since I'll be the "adult," let's get back on topic and less bashing of Akron. K thx bye "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
October 6, 20186 yr 200 Public Square office tower trades for $187 million https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/200-public-square-office-tower-trades-187-million "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 9, 20186 yr They're in the Penton Building, 1300 East 9th, which the reporter didn't mention in his article... JPMorgan Chase & Co. confirms that Cleveland office is included in layoffs in its home lending division https://www.crainscleveland.com/finance/jpmorgan-chase-co-confirms-cleveland-office-included-layoffs-its-home-lending-division "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 10, 20186 yr Cleveland Garners Interest as CBD Thrives A number of its top buildings recently changed hands, and many others are undergoing renovations. https://www.globest.com/2018/10/10/cleveland-garners-interest-as-cbd-thrives/?slreturn=20180910115400 "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 10, 20186 yr I miss the look of Key Tower before the addition of the Key at the cornice along with the satellite dishes (HORRIBLE). But it's good to see Cleveland getting some attention.
October 11, 20186 yr A very rosy office market and jobs growth report.... http://www.ngkf.com/Uploads/FileManager/3Q18-Cleveland-Office-Market.pdf "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 14, 20186 yr The article also discusses what might be viable in the downtown office market… Proposed Ohio City building to test Cleveland office market https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/proposed-ohio-city-building-test-cleveland-office-market "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 15, 20186 yr My company looked in to relocating to the United Bank building a few years ago. We turned it down primarily due to space and architecture concerns. There were many "historic hallways" that needed to be preserved, and that severely limited build-out options. I'm not surprised that they're throwing in the towel and converting to apartments.
October 17, 20186 yr Edited October 17, 20186 yr by KJP "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 19, 20186 yr Edited October 19, 20186 yr by KJP "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 21, 20186 yr "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 31, 20186 yr Zamir Equities Acquires 559,299 SF Office Tower in Cleveland https://rebusinessonline.com/zamir-equities-acquires-559299-sf-office-tower-in-cleveland/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 31, 20186 yr Is Sherwin-Williams ready to paint Cleveland's sky? https://neo-trans.blogspot.com/2018/10/is-sherwin-williams-ready-to-paint-sky.html Edited October 31, 20186 yr by KJP "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 1, 20186 yr Despite what they say, could this be the start of something more and bigger?? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 1, 20186 yr Also noted here: https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/progressive-corp-sets-downtown-cleveland-office Edited November 1, 20186 yr by musky
November 1, 20186 yr About damn time they had a presence downtown. It always struck me as odd that a company that's grown such a (relatively) large software and creative team wouldn't have a satellite office downtown. This isn't what I was hoping for, but it's a start.
November 1, 20186 yr I'm tempted to read more into this, but I think it's part of the de rigueur move towards getting innovative, creative functions away from the machine of the larger corporation. Nestle have done something similar with a handful of product innovation folks working out of Tremont. My hovercraft is full of eels
November 1, 20186 yr Allstate (competing insurer) does something similar in Chicago - HQ in the northern suburbs but remote office with strategy, actuarial, and some other finance roles in the Merchandise Mart downtown.
November 1, 20186 yr Well this strategic group could push to have corporate offices downtown. It makes sense to all of us that corporate offices should be in a downtown. Its kind of a no-brainer that if you are only populating your corporate offices with only the eastern part of Cleveland generally, that your only getting half of the potential pool of workers if that(since not everyone wants to work in a suburban low-rise or vice versa downtown). But if its important for the management,that i would assume lives in Gates Mills and thereabouts,to have easy commutes then maybe nah. Witness Parker Hannafin and Eaton. Edited November 1, 20186 yr by audidave Commas
November 1, 20186 yr Note Bullard's comment toward the end of his article in Crain's.... Insiders at the outfit consider it a technology company. Establishing such a unit downtown would help legitimize that rep with a new generation of business and tech types. So what if Progressive spins out a technology company from this strategic effort and locates it downtown? And it grows....a lot? "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 1, 20186 yr 19K square feet, and good access to transit! Post Office Plaza adds College Now Greater Cleveland as tenant https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/post-office-plaza-adds-college-now-greater-cleveland-tenant "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 2, 20186 yr 18 hours ago, audidave said: Well this strategic group could push to have corporate offices downtown. It makes sense to all of us that corporate offices should be in a downtown. Its kind of a no-brainer that if you are only populating your corporate offices with only the eastern part of Cleveland generally, that your only getting half of the potential pool of workers if that(since not everyone wants to work in a suburban low-rise or vice versa downtown). But if its important for the management,that i would assume lives in Gates Mills and thereabouts,to have easy commutes then maybe nah. Witness Parker Hannafin and Eaton. Progressive employee here. I work in IT, so it might not be a 1:1 comparison with corporate, but I believe your assumption about Gates Mills etc. to be largely correct. A fair amount of people commute from the Solon/Twinsburg area as well. Our corporate HQ is a separate campus from where I work, but both campuses were built in the mid 90s and the one I'm at has been undergoing renovations for the last couple of years, so I doubt the higherups are looking to drop the money on any substantial movement downtown any time soon. I certainly haven't heard any rumblings of it, at the very least. But hey, who knows.
November 2, 20186 yr For what it's worth....over the years I would hear the same rationale as to why Progressive would not/will not move downtown: that is the majority of employees did not want to (not just the higher ups). The three people I know who currently work for Progressive live in the far eastern or far southern suburbs. In fact, so far they are not even in Cuyahoga County (Concord, Bainbridge and Hudson). I do agree with sentiment expressed above that Progressive, given its location, is losing out on a huge talent pool. Over the years I have known very few west siders who have worked for the company.
November 2, 20186 yr Or do the West Siders who do take jobs there eventually move to the East Side? (Speaking as someone who has been both an East and West Sider)
November 4, 20186 yr Proformex of Westlake looking to move offices downtown Updated Oct 29; Posted 7:00 AM By Michael Piskor WESTLAKE, Ohio -- Proformex, based in Westlake, has developed a new automated life insurance software platform that will provide peace of mind to policy owners, as well as to agency firms that manage those insurance policies. Proformex, currently with 24 employees, is set up for life insurance agencies to equip themselves with the tools they need to keep accurate and up to date meta-information on their clients at all times. Information can get lost easily, insurance agents may end up mishandling information or even fail to address a mistake or update in a timely manner. Clients who subscribe to firms that use this software will be better protected and less likely to roll into mishaps on the insurance agent side of the spectrum. Proformex is in the process of moving their office to downtown Cleveland. “With our expected continued growth, we're planning to double that number in the next 18 months. With tremendous growth, we've completely outgrown our space, and are actively seeking new space that will be aligned with our strategic initiatives,” Beck said. https://www.cleveland.com/business/2018/11/proformex-of-westlake-looking-to-move-offices-downtown.html
November 8, 20186 yr Confused by this report. It says total the net absorption downtown was about -400,00 sq ft for q3. That just seems like a huge number. Any insight why that is the case? https://www.us.jll.com/content/dam/jll-com/documents/pdf/research/americas/us/US-cleveland-office-insight-q3-2018-jll.pdf Edited November 8, 20186 yr by cle_guy90
November 8, 20186 yr Very strange. That doesn't jibe with other firms' 3Q market reports which are all over the place, although none are at that extreme: net +190,007 http://www.cushmanwakefield.com/~/media/marketbeat/2018/Cleveland_Americas_Alliance_MarketBeat_Office_Q32018.pdf net + 49,476 http://www.ngkf.com/Uploads/FileManager/3Q18-Cleveland-Office-Market.pdf net -137,659 https://www2.colliers.com/-/media/Files/UnitedStates/Markets/Cleveland/Research/2018Q3OfficeClevelandReportColliers.ashx I can't seem to login in to CBRE's research but I don't remember them reporting a net loss in the CBD. BTW, the strength of Class A demand in the CBD is palpable and the lack of inventory is hurting leasing. I suspect there are a number of suburban companies that would move downtown the moment that enough contiguous Class A space is available. If Stark gets his transformational tax credit, look for an office tower to rise ASAP at Nucleus. And Sherwin Williams' office tower is likely to be built with some extra square footage (maybe 100,000+) for future expansion which they can offer to the market in the near-term. Edited November 8, 20186 yr by KJP "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 11, 20186 yr "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 13, 20186 yr They consolidated at Beachwood, but that doesn't mean they won't be downtown someday, in whole or in part. And I've never seen a company broadcast a merger personal ad before -- especially one potentially involving a downtown firm... Apple Growth Partners Consolidates Cleveland Workforce November 05, 2018 09:00 AM Eastern Standard Time CLEVELAND--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Apple Growth Partners (AGP) has been operating two locations in Cleveland since 2004, currently with offices and staff located in Independence and Beachwood. Effective November 5, approximately 35 employees from both offices will be consolidating into a new office also located in Beachwood. The recent combination for the accounting and business advisory firm is part of a larger 2020 plan, beginning with the merger of Beachwood-based CPA firm KPFF in 2017..... With four offices across Northeast Ohio, AGP’s Cleveland presence has been strong for more than 20 years, with previous offices located in Westlake and Mayfield Village. The recent consolidation will focus on expanding services to privately-owned businesses through tax planning and preparation, accounting and auditing, and business valuation and litigation support services. While the Beachwood consolidation is one component of the firm’s 2020 strategic plan, future Cleveland office space hasn’t been ruled out. “We hope to have a downtown office in the future, and we’d welcome the opportunity to discuss a merger with any firms in the area,” says Mullen. MORE: https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20181105005005/en/Apple-Growth-Partners-Consolidates-Cleveland-Workforce "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 15, 20186 yr Silicon Valley based tech company Brightedge finds room to grow in Cleveland http://amp.news5cleveland.com/3108832400/silicon-valley-based-tech-company-brightedge-finds-room-to-grow-in-cleveland.html "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 5, 20186 yr They wasted no time moving from Westlake to Downtown Cleveland! "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 6, 20186 yr delete -- wrong thread Edited December 6, 20186 yr by KJP "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 18, 20186 yr Another company expanding its presence downtown.... Edited December 18, 20186 yr by KJP "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 15, 20196 yr Is it true that One Cleveland Center is at capacity? I heard that at lunch the other day and that blows my mind.
January 15, 20196 yr @gottaplan seems to be tuned into occupancy rates. Perhaps he can shed some light.
January 15, 20196 yr My wife’s firm just moved out of One Cleveland Center, so I know at least one half floor is unoccupied lol
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