Posted July 21, 200816 yr Some pics of Philadelphia from earlier this year. Various building in Center City The Park Hyatt - Love it! City Hall Macy's Reading Terminal Market Inside the Market East Septa Station The Nasty PATCO Station 30 Street Station - the line to verify your ticket and to allow access to the platform wrapped around the bldg. Some pics from the train I arrive to this chaos
July 21, 200816 yr Yeah, no where near the Detroit of the East. It is a very, very fun town to go to and offers an awesome urban experience. The first tiem we were there, we were overwhelmed by the things to do. And the Chinatown and Little Italy are amongst the coolest neighborhoods I have ever walked through (adjacent to city center).
July 21, 200816 yr Ah, the Detroit of the East. :lol Uh, no. Philly is a great town...right up there as one of my favorites.
July 21, 200816 yr Good stuff! Philadelphia is a wonderfully photogenic city, and no matter how many forumers post photos of it, everyone finds a viewpoint that presents different aspects. 30th Street Station is an impressive structure. It was designed by Graham, Anderson, Probst and White, successor firm to D.H. Burnham & Co and opened in 1933. I think they must have been one of the most productive architectural firms in North America for major projects in their era; among other buildings familiar to forumers, Cleveland's Terminal Tower and Chicago's Union Station are their creations. If I remember correctly, 30th Street Station sits about 30 feet above natural grade level, on girders resting on trunnions that allow for expansion and contraction. The tracks and platforms are located in the space beneath the building. The adjacent post office, even more massive, is a companion piece and is built the same way; in that era, most US Mail traveled by train, and the placement of post offices adjacent to railroad stations allowed mail cars to be switched in and out of passenger trains easily. There are places where you can see the space from street level:
July 21, 200816 yr The adjacent post office, even more massive, is a companion piece and is built the same way; in that era, most US Mail traveled by train, and the placement of post offices adjacent to railroad stations allowed mail cars to be switched in and out of passenger trains easily. That makes sense, it is set up that way in Cincy as well.
July 21, 200816 yr The adjacent post office, even more massive, is a companion piece and is built the same way; in that era, most US Mail traveled by train, and the placement of post offices adjacent to railroad stations allowed mail cars to be switched in and out of passenger trains easily. That makes sense, it is set up that way in Cincy as well. Cleveland also.
July 21, 200816 yr i never realized that rob, but after you mentioned it that would appear to fit right in with the terminal tower buildings. i like the philadelphia mural-age, really makes me think the three c's could do so much more with murals oh and everybody check out mts pullin out the cam-a-rah these days *snl copy guy voice* :wink: nice shots!
July 21, 200816 yr Where's Kim Cattrall on her hanglider?!? clevelandskyscrapers.com Cleveland Skyscrapers on Instagram
July 21, 200816 yr In New York City, the Farley Post office was sited the same way. For years discussions have started and stopped and arguments have raged over converting the Farley structure into a new station to give arriving and departing passengers something more suited to a great city than the glorified subway station that is all that remains of McKim, Mead, and White's 1910 Pennsylvania Station, possibly the grandest structure ever erected in North America. Now the debate over the size and routing of a new passenger-train tunnel will probably complicate that process even more.
July 21, 200816 yr i like the philadelphia mural-age, really makes me think the three c's could do so much more with murals. http://www.artworkscincinnati.org/about/wheretofind.shtml
July 21, 200816 yr oh and everybody check out mts pullin out the cam-a-rah these days *snl copy guy voice* :wink: nice shots! LOL. Hey just trying to do my part. I end up deleting more pictures than I take as they often look bad when I download them or I forget to take it out my bag like I did this weekend when I took my grandparents to the Statue of Liberty and Govenors Island :oops:
July 21, 200816 yr I think Philly is one of the more underrated bigger cities in America. It has some of the more beautiful, older architecture in the US, in my opinion. Center City is great. Unfortunately, there are a lot of decaying, poor neighborhoods just outside of Center City that provide a stark contrast. I wish more would be done to improve these areas and help these citizens get a leg up. Thanks for the pics, MTS!
July 21, 200816 yr Great pics. They are actually tearing down most of the post office complex that peaks in the picture of the 30th Street Station. It will be a massive new development headed up in part by UPenn. Center City is great, but as a couple people noted. The city as a whole is in pretty rough shape, especially since a lot of the surviving neighborhoods along the Delaware especially north and up in the Northeast section are dropping off a cliff quality-wise right now. That part of town also has some of the worst home architecture that isn't aging well.
July 21, 200816 yr dmerkow I agree. Only a few neighborhoods in Cleveland decayed to that affect. There is an invisible ring around center city and once you cross into an outer neighborhood, it's like visiting a third world. I had to go to a meeting at Temple at dusk. It's not cute.
July 21, 200816 yr i like the philadelphia mural-age, really makes me think the three c's could do so much more with murals. http://www.artworkscincinnati.org/about/wheretofind.shtml i know. nice. still, if that's everything noteworthy thats nothing vs philly. cities around the whole state could do with a lot more of it.
July 21, 200816 yr The best memory I have of Philly was when a buddy and I were there during St Patricks day. Chicks in taxi cabs were flashing everyone walking/standing on the street. It was awesome. Nice city though I havent been there since they completed the comcast center.
July 22, 200816 yr Love Philadelphia. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
July 22, 200816 yr Philadelphia is wonderful, historic and energetic. I like the fact that it's kind of chaotic. Plus, they have their own little dialect going on, which kind of adds to the mix. Great city! Great photos! Thanks for the tour.
July 22, 200816 yr Center City is great, but as a couple people noted. The city as a whole is in pretty rough shape, especially since a lot of the surviving neighborhoods along the Delaware especially north and up in the Northeast section are dropping off a cliff quality-wise right now. That part of town also has some of the worst home architecture that isn't aging well. Great pics. They are actually tearing down most of the post office complex that peaks in the picture of the 30th Street Station. It will be a massive new development headed up in part by UPenn. Center City is great, but as a couple people noted. The city as a whole is in pretty rough shape, especially since a lot of the surviving neighborhoods along the Delaware especially north and up in the Northeast section are dropping off a cliff quality-wise right now. That part of town also has some of the worst home architecture that isn't aging well. I disagree. You guys tend to ignore the many quality neighborhoods, old line/gentrifying, outside Center City that house upper mids to millionaires: Mount Airy, (uber-tony)Chestnut Hill, East Falls (home to Guv Rendell and Sen Specter), and Univ. City (a much stronger, activity-wise Philly version of University Circle), and the far Northeast (like Torresdale). Outside of the narrow (barely) 1-mile stretch of Edgewater, areas hugging Shaker Sq at the Shaker Hts border and, I guess, parts of West Park, how much real wealth is inside Cleveland's borders? Cleveland's East Side is in comparable to worse condition than North Philly, which is gentrifying big-time in many areas -- RE in North Philly is a red hot ticket; no, Philly hasn't had the foreclosure crash Cleve has had... Plus, poor Philly neighborhoods at the very least have both solid brick row housing that can be, and is being, rapidly rehabbed -- and people!. Vast stretches of Cleveland are wasteland/ghost towns; we’ve torn down entire neighborhoods inside large areas like Hough and are left, often, with building up from scratch, not rehab. And serious, stubborn decay is spreading to near the border; like Mt. Pleasant and swaths of Glenville. Yes, if you say Philly is dirtier (by far) and meaner ... I'd agree.
July 22, 200816 yr Center City is great, but as a couple people noted. The city as a whole is in pretty rough shape, especially since a lot of the surviving neighborhoods along the Delaware especially north and up in the Northeast section are dropping off a cliff quality-wise right now. That part of town also has some of the worst home architecture that isn't aging well. Great pics. They are actually tearing down most of the post office complex that peaks in the picture of the 30th Street Station. It will be a massive new development headed up in part by UPenn. Center City is great, but as a couple people noted. The city as a whole is in pretty rough shape, especially since a lot of the surviving neighborhoods along the Delaware especially north and up in the Northeast section are dropping off a cliff quality-wise right now. That part of town also has some of the worst home architecture that isn't aging well. I disagree. You guys tend to ignore the many quality neighborhoods, old line/gentrifying, outside Center City that house upper mids to millionaires: Mount Airy, (uber-tony)Chestnut Hill, East Falls (home to Guv Rendell and Sen Specter), and Univ. City (a much stronger, activity-wise Philly version of University Circle), and the far Northeast (like Torresdale). Outside of the narrow (barely) 1-mile stretch of Edgewater, areas hugging Shaker Sq at the Shaker Hts border and, I guess, parts of West Park, how much real wealth is inside Cleveland's borders? Cleveland's East Side is in comparable to worse condition than North Philly, which is gentrifying big-time in many areas -- RE in North Philly is a red hot ticket; no, Philly hasn't had the foreclosure crash Cleve has had... Plus, poor Philly neighborhoods at the very least have both solid brick row housing that can be, and is being, rapidly rehabbed -- and people!. Vast stretches of Cleveland are wasteland/ghost towns; we’ve torn down entire neighborhoods inside large areas like Hough and are left, often, with building up from scratch, not rehab. And serious, stubborn decay is spreading to near the border; like Mt. Pleasant and swaths of Glenville. Yes, if you say Philly is dirtier (by far) and meaner ... I'd agree. OH I disagree. The mortage and foreclosure curtain has creeped into every city. Can you give me some stats? Philly is known as the "armpit of America" for a reason. Those area going north and along the river and the cities on the Jersey side make Hough look like paradise.
July 22, 200816 yr too many tall buildings there totally ruins street life come on man, don't go there.
July 22, 200816 yr Center City is great, but as a couple people noted. The city as a whole is in pretty rough shape, especially since a lot of the surviving neighborhoods along the Delaware especially north and up in the Northeast section are dropping off a cliff quality-wise right now. That part of town also has some of the worst home architecture that isn't aging well. Great pics. They are actually tearing down most of the post office complex that peaks in the picture of the 30th Street Station. It will be a massive new development headed up in part by UPenn. Center City is great, but as a couple people noted. The city as a whole is in pretty rough shape, especially since a lot of the surviving neighborhoods along the Delaware especially north and up in the Northeast section are dropping off a cliff quality-wise right now. That part of town also has some of the worst home architecture that isn't aging well. I disagree. You guys tend to ignore the many quality neighborhoods, old line/gentrifying, outside Center City that house upper mids to millionaires: Mount Airy, (uber-tony)Chestnut Hill, East Falls (home to Guv Rendell and Sen Specter), and Univ. City (a much stronger, activity-wise Philly version of University Circle), and the far Northeast (like Torresdale). Outside of the narrow (barely) 1-mile stretch of Edgewater, areas hugging Shaker Sq at the Shaker Hts border and, I guess, parts of West Park, how much real wealth is inside Cleveland's borders? Cleveland's East Side is in comparable to worse condition than North Philly, which is gentrifying big-time in many areas -- RE in North Philly is a red hot ticket; no, Philly hasn't had the foreclosure crash Cleve has had... Plus, poor Philly neighborhoods at the very least have both solid brick row housing that can be, and is being, rapidly rehabbed -- and people!. Vast stretches of Cleveland are wasteland/ghost towns; we’ve torn down entire neighborhoods inside large areas like Hough and are left, often, with building up from scratch, not rehab. And serious, stubborn decay is spreading to near the border; like Mt. Pleasant and swaths of Glenville. Yes, if you say Philly is dirtier (by far) and meaner ... I'd agree. OH I disagree. The mortage and foreclosure curtain has creeped into every city. Can you give me some stats? Philly is known as the "armpit of America" for a reason. Those area going north and along the river and the cities on the Jersey side make Hough look like paradise. Really? The "armpit of America"?
July 22, 200816 yr MTS, I'll hunt down stats and get back to you; urban RE's one of my hobbies... Realtors and investors (and Wall Street) have all said that Philly, while it has had some sag, has not been hit like other places. Part of it is that, while Cleveland has yet to break through the stereotypes and doubt in outiders mind, Philly has in many ways. Plus, the population mass of the Northeast corridor is so close by -- an hour train ride to New York -- many New Yorkers, brushed off by Manhattan's crazy market, have moved to Philly, burbs and city, but esp Center City. And, as alluded to, Philly has/is a part of a gigantic transit network, regional, local, several levels of trains and buses (and rail stations are in or very near most neighborhoods), there's always comeback potential... ... in some ways Philly's just a bigger, older Cleveland: lots of potential, arts, etc, but stays down on itself... but Philly's quietly playing its best hand while Cleveland is, well, progressing but oh so slowly.
July 22, 200816 yr I'm not at the armpit level, but East Falls is having real problems sustaining its recovery. I was there is June for a week. The same is true with much of West Philly outside of University City. SW Phillly is in worse shape. North Philly is every bit as gap toothed as Cleveland (though not on a Detroit level). Their crime rate, real nasty street crime that catches innocent folk is quite high compared to all Ohio cities. If you chat with Philly-folk, there is a real sense of the far northeast following places like Frankfort down the drain. South Philly is a mix. South Street is doing well, but there are still plenty of parts where crack addicts prowl the streets. Other than that, Philly is great. I'd add that their first ring suburbs have been getting worse and are being hit by the subprime crap, especially in Delaware County.
July 22, 200816 yr demerko, I think your a tad extreme... Hell, you can find crackheads walking the streets in the WHD... Parts of East Falls may have problem, but on the whole, it's very upscale/upper middle class-to-wealthy. You still haven't acknowledge wealthy Chestnut Hill, Mt Airy (w/ SOME rough spots, but overall, its great) or even Manayunk -- very trendy, indeed. Philly has more crime becuase it has more people. No matter what neighborhood you go in, you're bound to see people on the streets; unlike Cleveland, where so much is dead w/ little street activity.
July 22, 200816 yr Dope pics. Why are you just now posting all these pics from earlier in the year? Just didnt have the time to upload them?
July 22, 200816 yr clvlndr: your posts on Philly are spot on... do you live there? Basically, Philly is much larger than any Ohio city ... and it runs the gamut... from the worst of the worst in urban American to incredibly functional, beautiful, affluent urban neighborhoods... and the booming Centre City is a huge asset that few cities are blessed with. Philly's got major problems that won't be cured any time soon... but it also has incredible promise... and has accomplished a lot over the past decade. Metro Philly also has one of the lowest foreclosure rates of any major region in the U.S. Here's some numbers from February: http://www.forbes.com/realestate/2008/02/12/rates-foreclosure-housing-forbeslife-cx_mw_0213realestate_2.html PHILADELPHIA, PA: Foreclosure Filings: 16,246 Properties With Filings: 7,899 %Householes: 0.492 %Change from 2006: -32.09 CLEVELAND/LORAIN/ELYRIA/MENTOR, OH Foreclosure Filings: 49,071 Properties With Filings: 27,848 %Householes: 2.972 %Change from 2006: 112.43 CINCINNATI, OH Foreclosure Filings: 21,392 Properties With Filings: 13,119 %Householes: 1.469 %Change from 2006: 104.38
July 22, 200816 yr MTS, I'll hunt down stats and get back to you; urban RE's one of my hobbies... Realtors and investors (and Wall Street) have all said that Philly, while it has had some sag, has not been hit like other places. Part of it is that, while Cleveland has yet to break through the stereotypes and doubt in outiders mind, Philly has in many ways. Plus, the population mass of the Northeast corridor is so close by -- an hour train ride to New York -- many New Yorkers, brushed off by Manhattan's crazy market, have moved to Philly, burbs and city, but esp Center City. And, as alluded to, Philly has/is a part of a gigantic transit network, regional, local, several levels of trains and buses (and rail stations are in or very near most neighborhoods), there's always comeback potential... ... in some ways Philly's just a bigger, older Cleveland: lots of potential, arts, etc, but stays down on itself... but Philly's quietly playing its best hand while Cleveland is, well, progressing but oh so slowly. People from NNJ have moved to Philly as Philly tries to market itself as the "six boro" I od agree that Philly does remind me of Cleveland. I've often said that. Broad Street Reminds me of Euclid and East Ninth reminds me of Market street.
July 22, 200816 yr Part of Philly's current situation is that it is on the backside of deindustrialization. The 70s were not kind to Philly - the whole region lost pop, you don't see that very often. There isn't much left in the city in terms of industrial opportunity - a little in South Philly in the old Naval Yards. I agree that Philly has maintained a sizable middle and even upper class within its boundaries - Chestnut Hill included. Crime in Philly isn't simply a matter of density, it is the kind of crime and who gets affected that makes a more challenging place to live. The Starbuck's manager in Center City in the spring, the new school teacher from Minnesota a month or so ago, the numerous retail merchants and those are just the most in your face. Look, I think Michael Nutter is great - a vast improvement over John Street. The city has a lot of potential, but I'd argue the city has chosen to protect the core and let the outlying areas wither. Culturally, I'd argue Philly and Cincy over C-land especially when you look at the historic industrial make-up of the town and the attention to a stable local community.
July 22, 200816 yr Crime in Philly isn't simply a matter of density, it is the kind of crime and who gets affected that makes a more challenging place to live. The Starbuck's manager in Center City in the spring, the new school teacher from Minnesota a month or so ago, the numerous retail merchants and those are just the most in your face. Look, I think Michael Nutter is great - a vast improvement over John Street. The city has a lot of potential, but I'd argue the city has chosen to protect the core and let the outlying areas wither. I wholeheartley agree. When Philly was cleaning up Center City and spending millions to get people to live there and to improve downtown transportation, the rest of the city was going to hell. It's often dubbed "Killadelphia". Culturally, I'd argue Philly and Cincy over C-land especially when you look at the historic industrial make-up of the town and the attention to a stable local community. This doesn't make sense to me, can you explain a bit more.
July 22, 200816 yr Philly's industrial plant was dominated by skilled labor rather than the more proletarian style of production - I'm thinking steel. In fact, Cincy was basically a smaller version of Philly with its large apparel and food industries along with furniture and similar skilled manufacture. Philly (compared to NY and other East Coast and Great Lakescities) missed a lot of the second migration. Obviously, there are sizable Italian and to a lesser extent Polish communities in the region, but it retained more of the older migrant groups - Germans, English, Irish. It is very neighborhood-oriented city. It has a deep distrust of outsiders and like Cincy and St. Louis - to locals what high school you went to matters long after you graduate. Michael Nutter gained a lot of support from the fact that he was a St. Joe's Prep grad - equal to St. X or St. I's.
July 23, 200816 yr clvlndr: your posts on Philly are spot on... do you live there? Right now, I split time btw Cleve & Philly. (guess that's why I'm somewhat bi-polar) ... So, yes, I see Bro/Love-town on a regular basis. It is mostly a rich ass city by my standards with healthy urbanity that makes Ohio look like a joke, not to mention better mass transit systems, and vastly superior intercity passenger rail service. Hell, Columbus, our second largest market area and our capital, doesn't have any intercity service to speak of. The service is damn near European level. I'd say "almost European"; train service can be great out East, but tends to be linear. It's awesome if your on the Amtrak Northeast Corridor or in a burb or nearby town w/in the net of one of the 3 major commuter systems (NYC, Philly or Boston ... DC's not has good). But if you're off the corridor or not in spot towns/state capitals like Albany, or Harrisburg, you're out of luck; gotta do the bus-to-rail thing. So if you wanna visit historic Annapolis, or the huge Allentown-Bethlehem met, or outlet-mad Reading,... too bad. That wouldn't happen in Europe; at least most of Europe... Still, but US Standards, esp in transit-sorry regions like Ohio, it's amazing. That I can board a regional rail train from my house's front door in Philly and have an all train (electric and fast) trip to Manhattan, D.C., Boston or L.I. (and hundreds of spots in btw), still trips me out.
July 23, 200816 yr I'll acknowledge that Philly is doing 'okay' but as we've noted it has a location between NY and DC that helps and it does remain one of America's leading cities even if it has been in terminal decline for about 175 years. Yes, it is walkable but if you get mugged or murdered on the street, you aren't going to walk that much. They have a much better mass transit, but it is only recently getting decent funding and the Far Northeast is entirely missing from the system. It is only mildly useful in large parts of the city. They have completely mishandled the Market Street line renovation. It is important to remember that the Far Northeast allowed Philly to capture a fair amount of post-war suburb development, which was basically not the case in most Ohio cities. In percentage it isn't as large, but Philly has lost nearly a half-million people inside the cities limits since its peak. There is no part of Ohio that is as scary as parts of Philly. I'm thinking of Lancaster Ave. in West Philly and significant swathes of North Philly/Strawberry Mansion. It is also a very expensive place to live #5 as I recall. Compared to NY, DC or Boston, its cheap but compared to the rest of the country not so much. But it is always sunny in Philadelphia. As to immigrant make-up, compared to NYC, Boston, DC, LA - which are really its peers - Philly is far more native. In fact, it has the greatest percentage of locals who stay there of any large city in America. The city has become more multi-cultural since the mid-80s with a large latino and asian influx.
July 23, 200816 yr LOL, New Jersey is the Armpit of America.. at least that's what my husband has called it and he would know, he's lived there all his life. We live in Lindenwold, NJ (at least until Saturday). It's in Camden County (but not the city Camden which I wouldnt wish on my worst enemy). We're about 15 miles from Philly and around here, we pretty much consider ourselves a suburb of Philly. MTS, I LOVED those pictures. My husband and I love the theater district and recently saw Eddie Izzard at the Kimmel Center there. Center City is remodelling... slowly. In the 12-13 years I've lived here, I've really seen an improvement. They're just about finished with the Comcast building and according to my husband, they're about to start work on what will be the tallest building in the Western Hemisphere. Too bad you didnt get to visit the art museum or Fairmont Park. On the north side of the park there's a walking/running path that follows the Schukyll (pronounced Skoo-kill) River with various Victorian boathouses and statues and a great old cemetery you can walk through. Yes, PATCO is disgusting. I'll give you that much. Be lucky all you found was an empty bottle of liquor. I used to have to use that every day to get from NJ to work in Thomas Jefferson University. Parts of Philly are deplorable, yes, but I think that's the same in every city. But I have a love/hate relationship with Philly, and you posted pictures of all the places I love the most. As for crime, I believe that both Philly and Camden top the number of murders for the past few years, I know we were well over 200 ... and last year there were nearly 400.
July 23, 200816 yr Yes, PATCO is disgusting. I'll give you that much. Be lucky all you found was an empty bottle of liquor. I used to have to use that every day to get from NJ to work in Thomas Jefferson University. Honey, I didn't take picture of the "piles" of things I saw.
July 23, 200816 yr Yes, PATCO is disgusting. I'll give you that much. Be lucky all you found was an empty bottle of liquor. I used to have to use that every day to get from NJ to work in Thomas Jefferson University. Honey, I didn't take picture of the "piles" of things I saw. LOL, I still remember my first PATCO ride into Philly, my friend Terri whispered in my ear, "no matter what, dont touch the railing and dont step in any puddles"
July 23, 200816 yr Yes, PATCO is disgusting. I'll give you that much. Be lucky all you found was an empty bottle of liquor. I used to have to use that every day to get from NJ to work in Thomas Jefferson University. Honey, I didn't take picture of the "piles" of things I saw. LOL, I still remember my first PATCO ride into Philly, my friend Terri whispered in my ear, "no matter what, dont touch the railing and dont step in any puddles" Thats how I feel about any train!
July 23, 200816 yr I'd hoped before we left to get pictures of Love Park and a few other places downtown, but alas, we have not. I guess we'll have to save that for a visit back.
July 23, 200816 yr LOL, New Jersey is the Armpit of America.. at least that's what my husband has called it and he would know, he's lived there all his life. Your husband is correct. lol
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