Did someone say "train"??  :-P

I think he meant "train-like bus".

This is what I believe is a non posted reminder of what was once proposed for the Jacobs PS site. This is the cover of the brochure for Ameritrust Center. It was, I was told, the final design. Keep in mind this included a 484 room Hyatt Regency an idea that should be revised considering that a new convention center will be 2 blocks away regardless of which of the final two sites is selected.    (Thanks to whomever moved this for me)

 

 

If anyone is interested I have several more scans of a variety of different angles.

very interested in more angles... and weird, though it kind of reminds me of the hearst building in nyc, which i like a great deal.

Oooo-La-La

That is a gorgeous building!

Ask and ye shall receive. :-D

 

^Not that I often quote modern day teeny-bopper movies, but "BRING IT ON!!!!"

 

Pretty please? :-D

i love everything about that building except the funky little pagoda on top.

^I kinda liked the pagoda-meets-industrial look (from a KPF book I own):

 

I like it from about 75' up. Those first several stories appear fortress-like.  Otherwise, this could have been my favorite skyscraper in Cleveland.

i think it looks a little cleaner without it. And I find it a little distracting which takes away from the rest of the building (which i love).  But alas that is the beauty of architecture.  You can love the pagoda, and I can hate it, and neither of us are wrong.  :)

i love everything about that building except the funky little pagoda on top.

I like everything about the building, except for the fact the damn thing is not built!

 

Today, i would not want that built on Public Square but East Ninth or 14 Street (south of Euclid) or East of 13 Street (North of Payne) to add some diversity to our skyline.

i love everything about that building except the funky little pagoda on top.

I like everything about the building, except for the fact the damn thing is not built!

 

Today, i would not want that built on Public Square but East Ninth or 14 Street (south of Euclid) or East of 13 Street (North of Payne) to add some diversity to our skyline.

 

i'd take it anywhere we could get it  :)  Someone get on the phone with Peter B, and tell him to get his arse out of Mayfield Heights.

I like it from about 75' up. Those first several stories appear fortress-like.  Otherwise, this could have been my favorite skyscraper in Cleveland.

 

I agree, especially on the Superior side which I felt was completely uninviting.

 

As far as the crown is concerned I'll admit I wasn't a fan , but it did grow on me. Like it or not it would of been one of those immediately recognizable towers identifying our city.

Just for sh!ts and giggles - a ballpark guesstimate:

 

Don't forget about the original Ameritrust Center thread.

Does it look familiar? It is an early model of the Society Center (Key Tower).

 

 

http://www.howardmodels.com/Architectural-Scale-Models/BurgeeClev/index.html

Just for sh!ts and giggles - a ballpark guesstimate:

 

 

Thanks MayDay, that is awesome. This shows how careful KPF was to take an unconventional design and make it work in such an important location. It was a rather large building with floor plates of nearly 26,000 SF from floors 28 on up (I have the floor plans) Again remember that much of this buildings height came from the fact that most of the lower floors were designed for the 484 room Hyatt Regency. I'll say it again, this is an idea whose time has come again with the development of the MM/CC.

Does it look familiar? It is an early model of the Society Center (Key Tower).

 

 

http://www.howardmodels.com/Architectural-Scale-Models/BurgeeClev/index.html

 

I am SO glad that Cesar Pelli's design won.

Yes, it reminds me of that building in Atlanta.

^And Houston.

Just for sh!ts and giggles - a ballpark guesstimate:

 

 

Thanks MayDay, that is awesome. This shows how careful KPF was to take an unconventional design and make it work in such an important location. It was a rather large building with floor plates of nearly 26,000 SF from floors 28 on up (I have the floor plans) Again remember that much of this buildings height came from the fact that most of the lower floors were designed for the 484 room Hyatt Regency. I'll say it again, this is an idea whose time has come again with the development of the MM/CC.

  The problem of course, and thus the reason you aren't seeing any skyscraper proposals these days in Cleveland, is that convention hotel or not... skyscrapers require very, very, very large main tennants... none of which currently exist here.  Without them it can be very challenging to fill (see  BP Building, The).  We could do it if we scrapped all the other developments coming on line, but I think we're doing things smarter right now spreading it out.  That being said, that building sure does look purdy in that photoshopped pic, and I REALLY look forward to the day that a Cleveland Company takes off and their owners aren't asses who headquarter them 20 miles outside of downtown so we can see something like this actually happen.

Somewhere on this forum there is a photoshopped image with the Progressive Center, Ameritrust, and other former proposed buildings. It is interesting, if anyone remembers where it is, please post it. Thanks.

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,6692.msg66769.html#msg66769

 

http://www.deviantart.com/view/26645296/

 

These aren't the buildings that were proposed but this is the image I was thinking of.

 

Just for sh!ts and giggles - a ballpark guesstimate:

 

 

Thanks MayDay, that is awesome. This shows how careful KPF was to take an unconventional design and make it work in such an important location. It was a rather large building with floor plates of nearly 26,000 SF from floors 28 on up (I have the floor plans) Again remember that much of this buildings height came from the fact that most of the lower floors were designed for the 484 room Hyatt Regency. I'll say it again, this is an idea whose time has come again with the development of the MM/CC.

  The problem of course, and thus the reason you aren't seeing any skyscraper proposals these days in Cleveland, is that convention hotel or not... skyscrapers require very, very, very large main tenants... none of which currently exist here.  Without them it can be very challenging to fill (see  BP Building, The).  We could do it if we scrapped all the other developments coming on line, but I think we're doing things smarter right now spreading it out.  That being said, that building sure does look purdy in that photoshopped pic, and I REALLY look forward to the day that a Cleveland Company takes off and their owners aren't asses who headquarter them 20 miles outside of downtown so we can see something like this actually happen.

 

McCleveland I agree with most of what you say, but my point was to demonstrate what adding a hotel component to the Jacobs site could do for the overall height and design for any proposed building on that site. Just based on the 21 storey proposal that Jacobs/Hines recently released, if you add the hotel, the project could easily double in height. We already know that there is demand for a smaller tower why not add to it by having a mixed use product similar to what was proposed in the past. I don't want to turn this thread into a debate on the Jacobs property but IMO this site begs for a significant structure. No it doesn't have to be a supertall, but at least 500 ft. is appropriate.

 

BTW Florida Guy... I love that shot!

^^ Alternate Universe Cleveland.

Oddly enough, the Public Square site is still empty in that rendering! :laugh:

 

(If a tower was built there, the view of 200 Public Square would be obstructed).

the only thing i don't like about that skyline collage is that all of those building have a "corporate" feel.  None of the building read as residential.  I'm just being picky but cool "vision" nonetheless! :wink:

They should redesign the top of key tower and add a new spire to make it higher than 1000 feet.  They also can cheat on the floor count like they do here in NYC and sy that it's a 67 story building (they don't include the 9 floors at the top).  Example: there is nothing between the 86th floor and 102nd floor of the empire state building.  It's just stairs to the top!

Welcome to the forum, fmp in nyc!

the only thing i don't like about that skyline collage is that all of those building have a "corporate" feel.  None of the building read as residential.  I'm just being picky but cool "vision" nonetheless!

A few years ago when 200 Public Square was having trouble finding tenants after BP left, it would have been a good opportunity to convert the tower into residences.  The setbacks towards the top would have made some interesting penthouses and balconies. Probably not the very top where the HVAC/elevator equipment is kept, but it looks like at least two floors at the bottom of the "cap" are occupiable...

the only thing i don't like about that skyline collage is that all of those building have a "corporate" feel.  None of the building read as residential.  I'm just being picky but cool "vision" nonetheless!

A few years ago when 200 Public Square was having trouble finding tenants after BP left, it would have been a good opportunity to convert the tower into residences.  The setbacks towards the top would have made some interesting penthouses and balconies. Probably not the very top where the HVAC/elevator equipment is kept, but it looks like at least two floors at the bottom of the "cap" are occupiable...

 

As someone who worked in the building on several floors.

 

No they wouldn't.

 

The upper portions of the floor are ornamental.  When I was in the building, we couldn't access the outside.  I don't think that is the correct word, but they host/hide lighting and other building functions.    Internally, the way the elevator banks works there would have to be super high tech security as there are cross over floors throughout the building. 

 

The cost to reconfigure the plumbing alone would most likely be astronomical and the cost per unit would reflect that as it does with liberty place in Philly.

Ah, dreams must give way to architectural realities. :)

 

And I just checked the prices on some of those Liberty Place apartments. Ouch.

Does anyone remember if there was this kind of criticism of the BP Building when it was proposed? Because I think that building has aged worse than the nuCLEus tower will.

One thing I've heard is they wanted it to be shorter that terminal tower, the original design had it being taller.

 

Not true. First, it was built as the headquarters of Standard Oil of Ohio (Sohio). Second, the design of the Sohio Building was changed after criticism that it was too massive and dominated Terminal Tower. That's not the same as tall. Instead, the upper corners of the Sohio Building were tapered without changing the height of the skyscraper. That would make it less dominant next to Terminal Tower, the CPC reasoned. I clipped this from the PD in 1982:

 

That was a good choice. The current version looks much better than the originally proposed version (imo).

^^There was definitely some public discussion about the possibility of the Sohio building being taller than the Terminal Tower in the early 1980s, but I don't know if it was in response to a specific proposal by Sohio (predating the plans shown in the renderings you posted) or just generalized angst.

 

In any case, here's the review by the Chicago Tribune ach critic of the Sohio Building from the 1980s, which is fun read, if for no other reason because it all sounds so familiar: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1985-12-15/entertainment/8503260956_1_sohio-skyscraper-cleveland

 

^I also recall some issue with height---from personal memory in the 80s---that it couldn't be taller than the Terminal---not by law, but by local preference.  someone even speculated then that it couldn't be taller given the flight path to Hopkins, but that wasn't true. In any event, the 'can't be taller than the Terminal' was put to rest fairly soon after when Society was built.

Found this while looking up info on the Hexatron.  Few years old but gives a brief history of projects that never came to be :(

 

The biggest unbuilt projects of the last 30 years

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20100301/30THANNIVERSARY/100229858

Found this while looking up info on the Hexatron.  Few years old but gives a brief history of projects that never came to be :(

 

The biggest unbuilt projects of the last 30 years

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20100301/30THANNIVERSARY/100229858

 

You might also throw that in here somewhere, perhaps even in a new thread?

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/board,19.0.html

Wow, I never knew that section existed.  Now I'm going to have some fun history to catch up on!!