How far would the Clifton BRT run?

Check out the project website at:

 

http://www.enhanceclifton.com/

 

But to specifically answer your question, here's a graphic:

 

^Thanks

Just to be clear--the project at Enhance Clifton is not full-on BRT ala the Health Line.  All it is is dedicated lanes at rush hour and vastly improved waiting environments. 

 

I am also a resident and stand fully behind this project.  Clifton/Edgewater is hanging on by a thread--I'm sure this project would breathe life back into the area at a minimal cost.  More importantly--it will help connect it to Detroit Shoreway--something Cleveland neighborhoods seem to have trouble doing.

Just to be clear--the project at Enhance Clifton is not full-on BRT ala the Health Line.  All it is is dedicated lanes at rush hour and vastly improved waiting environments. 

 

I am also a resident and stand fully behind this project. Clifton/Edgewater is hanging on by a thread--I'm sure this project would breathe life back into the area at a minimal cost.  More importantly--it will help connect it to Detroit Shoreway--something Cleveland neighborhoods seem to have trouble doing.

::)

Yeah, I just saw that goofy comment too. The area has some of the most expensive homes in Cleveland, and many city officials live in the area between Lake and Detroit. And I live on the Lakewood side and frequent the stores and restaurants on the Cleveland side. There are problem spots, but in the 14+ years I've lived here, I've not seen any downward trend. The boulevard/BRT-lite project will beautify the area and strengthen it. But its linkages to the Detroit/Shoreway area will be limited, IMHO. The stations/stops serving Edgewater Park and Battery Park will affects those areas, but is too far away from the neighborhood's heart, Gordon Square.

Is it me, or does this website explain nothing?

 

Check out the project website at:

 

http://www.enhanceclifton.com/

 

But to specifically answer your question, here's a graphic:

 

Yeah, I just saw that goofy comment too. The area has some of the most expensive homes in Cleveland, and many city officials live in the area between Lake and Detroit. And I live on the Lakewood side and frequent the stores and restaurants on the Cleveland side. There are problem spots, but in the 14+ years I've lived here, I've not seen any downward trend. The boulevard/BRT-lite project will beautify the area and strengthen it. But its linkages to the Detroit/Shoreway area will be limited, IMHO. The stations/stops serving Edgewater Park and Battery Park will affects those areas, but is too far away from the neighborhood's heart, Gordon Square.

 

Call it goofy if you will, but I live on the Cleveland side and I can guarantee you that times have changed in Clifton/Baltic/Edgewater.  And I don't just mean the demographics (which is definitely moving to poorer and more ethnically diverse).  The housing stock itself is suffering as many of the stately homes you mention are falling into disrepair, along with the more modest ones in the W 100's south of Clifton. 

 

I also take issue with the horrific state of the infastructure itself.  For a so-called "walking neighborhood" the sidewalks on Clifton are crumbling.  I did find it amusing the city spent money to install ADA ramps at intersections while meanwhile the sidewalks between them are unpassable to wheelchairs! :)

 

Is it the worst neighborhood in Cleveland?  Of course not.  It still has a lot of great qualities and home owners that do care.  But the time is ripe for this project while there are still enough of us who want to invest in the neighborhood.

Is it me, or does this website explain nothing?

 

Check out the project website at:

 

http://www.enhanceclifton.com/

 

But to specifically answer your question, here's a graphic:

 

 

What are you looking for explanation on?  I think some of the confusion is that this thread is entitled "BRT" but the "Enhance Clifton" project does not include BRT.  It is merely streetscaping enhancements including the potential median.  RTA is tagged on because it would receive a dedicated rush hour lane and upgraded bus shelters.

 

From what I can tell RTA's plans for full-on BRT on Clifton appear to have stalled, but if anyone here has any updated info it would be appreciated.

Is it me, or does this website explain nothing?

 

I certainly doesn't explain enough. When projects receive federal funding (as this one has), they are required to be accessible as possible to the public including by notifications by mail, newspaper, radio etc., plus availability to the project manager(s) by phone number, TTY, and Web site. But it seems this project website meets the bare minimum of federal requirements (ie: there is one).

The housing stock itself is suffering as many of the stately homes you mention are falling into disrepair, along with the more modest ones in the W 100's south of Clifton.

 

South of Clifton certainly is not as nice as north of Clifton, as there are few stately homes south of Clifton. But you should have been in this area in the 1990s and earlier. It underwent a major cleanup and rejuvenation effort in the early- to mid-90s. It could probably use another, but it's still a lot better than it was in the 80s.

 

I also take issue with the horrific state of the infastructure itself. For a so-called "walking neighborhood" the sidewalks on Clifton are crumbling. I did find it amusing the city spent money to install ADA ramps at intersections while meanwhile the sidewalks between them are unpassable to wheelchairs! :)

 

The city installed the ramps because of ADA lawsuits. It had to install them. The sidewalks have been left to rot because they saw this Clifton project coming (same with the street surface conditions). Unlike Lakewood, which repaved Clifton in 2008 (I think mistakenly), Cleveland opted to wait because the entire street (and sidewalks) will get torn up for this Clifton project. Doesn't make sense to pay for it twice -- especially when the feds and the state are paying most of the cost.

 

Is it the worst neighborhood in Cleveland? Of course not.

 

This neighborhood doesn't even deserve to have that question asked of it. On a scale of Cleveland neighborhoods, I'd rank it a 7 or 8 on a scale of 1 to 10.

The housing stock itself is suffering as many of the stately homes you mention are falling into disrepair, along with the more modest ones in the W 100's south of Clifton.

 

South of Clifton certainly is not as nice as north of Clifton, as there are few stately homes south of Clifton. But you should have been in this area in the 1990s and earlier. It underwent a major cleanup and rejuvenation effort in the early- to mid-90s. It could probably use another, but it's still a lot better than it was in the 80s.

 

I also take issue with the horrific state of the infastructure itself. For a so-called "walking neighborhood" the sidewalks on Clifton are crumbling. I did find it amusing the city spent money to install ADA ramps at intersections while meanwhile the sidewalks between them are unpassable to wheelchairs! :)

 

The city installed the ramps because of ADA lawsuits. It had to install them. The sidewalks have been left to rot because they saw this Clifton project coming (same with the street surface conditions). Unlike Lakewood, which repaved Clifton in 2008 (I think mistakenly), Cleveland opted to wait because the entire street (and sidewalks) will get torn up for this Clifton project. Doesn't make sense to pay for it twice -- especially when the feds and the state are paying most of the cost.

 

Is it the worst neighborhood in Cleveland? Of course not.

 

This neighborhood doesn't even deserve to have that question asked of it. On a scale of Cleveland neighborhoods, I'd rank it a 7 or 8 on a scale of 1 to 10.

 

Let me say that I don't completely disagree with anything above. 

 

I was around in the 1990's, albeit as a renter then.  Now as an owner perhaps I pay more attention to my surroundings, but I definitely see more trouble today than then.  It's bound to be that way.  There was no foreclosure crisis in the 1990's that has affected all Cleveland neighborhoods to some degree, and Lakewood as well for that matter.

 

I am not sure if the sidewalks were canceled due to the project, or if the Cleveland side of Clifton was on a completely different timeline than that of Lakewood due to ODOT funding stipulations.  I guess the ADA suit people couldn't exercise patience on the issue no matter!

 

And, just because I'm curious, are there any Cleveland neighborhoods you'd rate a 9 or 10?

I don't believe there was a sidewalk project to cancel. The reason why I don't believe there was a sidewalk project is because city officials are likely waiting for the Clifton/BRT-lite project to create such a project.

 

And please give me credit for cleverly wording my neighborhood quality definitions: I rated it a 7 among other Cleveland neighborhoods. So, yes, there's going to be neighborhoods rated a 9 or 10 among other Cleveland neighborhoods. But this isn't the thread to debate or even discuss this subject. It was my mistake for even starting or continuing such a debate here. That is why other similar posts were deleted here, including unnecessary "pile on" posts by a certain lurker.

 

If you want to discuss how the Clifton/BRT-lite project may or may not help this area, please do so.

^ This is Jerry from RTA. If anyone wants to know something specific about the project, ask it here or contact me directly at [email protected]. I do not have all the answers, but I will hunt down those who do. Thanks for your support of this project.

Thank you as always Jerry.  We believe in Clifton and the partnership with RTA in one of Cleveland's most transit friendly neighborhoods.  RTA's improvements through the corridor make huge sense.

 

Would be interesting to hear where the Enhance Clifton initiative stands in terms of timeline and funding.  The website doesn't seem to be updated very often.

Would be interesting to hear where the Enhance Clifton initiative stands in terms of timeline and funding.

 

Stay tuned for the answer.

I think the aesthetic aspects of this project alone are greatly needed, and could go a long way in helping to stabilize the area, so I can’t wait to see it materialize along with the shoreway project.

 

Having spent the summers in the Edgewater neighborhood growing up, and having friends and family that still live and have businesses in the neighborhood, it has been sad to see it go downhill as much as it has the past few years.  It’s been rather blatant to me since I did a lot of work with the neighborhood, the community development corporation, and the block club before I moved to DC (and since I still keep regular tabs on the area).

   

A couple of years ago, the think-tank I worked for was working on an analysis/study of Cleveland’s still intact and viable neighborhoods.  At the conclusion the focus neighborhoods could qualify for special/federal funding to carry out some of the recommended initiatives.  The Clifton Edgewater neighborhood was one that we focused on, but the data did show some rather sharp changes in socio-economics/demographics and accompanied crime rates (the same pattern frankly carried into Lakewood).  Business owners and residents interviewed echoed this, with more than I would have expected having been a victim of or witness to crime (There has been a problem with hold-ups and robberies that had moved to the Clifton area and north, plus the area had apparently become quite a drug area).  Some of the residents frankly haven’t stuck around and moved to places like Westlake (Ugh)

 

One of our suggestions/recommendations was of course targeted investment in infrastructure/transit/beautification, in part due to the state of the area and the need to shift the tide and people’s attitudes (it was starting to get a bad reputation) and not just because of empty storefronts. 

 

Recently, we have been looking at homes on Edgewater (due to our impending move back to Cleveland) among a couple of other areas (MTS), so I really want to see things turn around here.   

 

Hanging by a thread may be a bit of an exaggeration, but not necessarily to the people that have or are considering abandoning this neighborhood.  This really should be a prime neighborhood, so it’s important not to ignore the realities and changes that have taken place.  After all if they are not first acknowledged they cannot properly be dealt with.  As some would say that is the reason Cleveland has seen the decline that it has.  I think that is definitely at least somewhat true.

 

Jerry I will be in touch. 

 

For those seeking an update on the Clifton Enhancement Project:

 

MEETINGS: A series of public meetings will be held shortly. The dates are now being finalized and will be made public asap. The meetings, and the project, are a joint effort of Lakewood, Cleveland and RTA. In the past, these meetings have included presentations (project updates) and Q and A.

 

TENTATIVE TIMELINE: Finish design in 2011. Bid during the winter. Start construction in spring 2012.

 

FUNDING: The project is recommended for $7.1M in TRAC funds from the Ohio Department of Transportation. The list will be finalized in March.

 

I will post more info when it is available. I suggest those interested in the projects attend one of the soon-to-be-announced public meetings. We greatly appreciate your on-going support.

For those seeking an update on the Clifton Enhancement Project:

 

MEETINGS: A series of public meetings will be held shortly. The dates are now being finalized and will be made public asap. The meetings, and the project, are a joint effort of Lakewood, Cleveland and RTA. In the past, these meetings have included presentations (project updates) and Q and A.

 

TENTATIVE TIMELINE: Finish design in 2011. Bid during the winter. Start construction in spring 2012.

FUNDING: The project is recommended for $7.1M in TRAC funds from the Ohio Department of Transportation. The list will be finalized in March.

 

I will post more info when it is available. I suggest those interested in the projects attend one of the soon-to-be-announced public meetings. We greatly appreciate your on-going support.

 

Uh oh....TRAC funds.  Should we be worried that ODOT will see this as "wasteful spending?"  Would it be helpful if area residents started emailing them now?

Any time anyone wants to write their state officials to urge more funding for public transit, we thank them. :clap:

 

Please go to www.fundohiotransitnow.org for more details.

There is also contact info for public comment on the ODOT TRAC website:

 

http://www.dot.state.oh.us/TRAC/Pages/Default.aspx

 

I will start writing today.  As I look at the list of projects I fear Clifton will lose out to the countless requests for third lanes and interchanges in Franklin County that I see on the list!

Not sure of the accuracy of this, but in this letter to the editor a Lakewood resident is personally taking credit for killing the Enhance Clifton project:

 

"Sometimes you can fight wrong-doing and ineptitude by City Hall politicians and RTA - and win, as I recently did, simply by making an intelligent effort. On Wednesday, February 23, I e-mailed Lakewood Mayor Mike Summers and City Council to stop the unpopular, un-needed, Clifton Boulevard remodeling project by Lakewood, Cleveland and RTA because it would make Clifton worse and cost Lakewood $482,500 initially, plus unknown costs of maintaining it for many years. It would be a waste of our tax money, which would be better spent to expand Lakewood circulator bus service. In response, a day later, February 24, Mayor Summers told Cleveland Councilman Jay Westbrook (Clifton goes thru his ward) that Lakewood cannot afford to pay for this Clifton project. So now the project is apparently dead."

 

Read the rest:    http://lakewoodobserver.com/read/2011/03/08/you-can-fight-city-hall-rta

The idea of Lakewood not being on board with this isn't surprising, especially since they just repaved Clifton a few years ago. 

 

I realize a lot of people here support this project, as well as the shoreway boulevard conversion, and I respect that.  But I think the letter writer has a point... a lot of people are against it too.  The letter goes on for 2 more paragraphs about how important the circulator service was for Lakewood residents.  On one hand, a gaping hole in the basic requirements of city living.  On the other, replacing a perfectly good road with another one.  Maybe the money can't just go from one basket into another as he suggests (capital vs. operating etc.), but its reasonable to raise questions of priority.  I don't think this project is a bad idea, I just don't get how it tops anybody's list right now.

I'm indifferent to Clifton BRT, and am in simpatico with the letter writer on most of his points.  I do disagree with him tossing in the Waterfront line as a failure because: a) it's a drop in the bucket cost-wise to Euclid's BRT (some $200M to about $70M), and b) the Waterfront Line is and will draw development, like the Flats East Bank project, which ultimately will make it successful.  Clifton is well served by buses and a beautiful street without those futuristic/ugly (depending on your POV) Healthline-type shelter-stations.

I'm indifferent to Clifton BRT, and am in simpatico with the letter writer on most of his points.  I do disagree with him tossing in the Waterfront line as a failure because: a) it's a drop in the bucket cost-wise to Euclid's BRT (some $200M to about $70M), and b) the Waterfront Line is and will draw development, like the Flats East Bank project, which ultimately will make it successful.  Clifton is well served by buses and a beautiful street without those futuristic/ugly (depending on your POV) Healthline-type shelter-stations.

 

Your comment serves as a perfect illustration on why the Enhance Clifton project has little chance of success. 

 

It's proponents have never clearly distinguished itself from the RTA BRT study, which this project has nothing to do with.  The Enhance Clifton project was solely medians, bus shelters and aesthetic improvements like brick crosswalks and streetlights, all of which are sorely needed on the Cleveland side of W 117th.  To 327's point Lakewood was recently repaved and probably doesn't need the project as much as Cleveland does. 

I am in huge support of Clifton/Shoreway BRT because I have worked in the shoreway district before and the transportation options consist of *bus*

 

BRT is a visable, and truly mass transit option as opposed to more busses or circulators. They have a huge plus to them, and I think, especially detroit-shoreway, is an absolute ripe urban corridor that would benefit very much from a project like the euclid corridor. It would further link the east and west sides of the city, opening up even more areas for truer TOD.

The letter writer is a nutjob who is barred from Lakewood's public libraries, a number of businesses, and the Plain Dealer and Sun Newspapers refuse to print his letters for his verbally abusive attacks against employees. He is, quite simply, one of the most offensive people I have ever dealt with.

^he should start posting on here, seems like he'd fit right in.

No, he would be banned in the first week. You don't know this guy. I do.

Reviewing this thread to check for update on construction but I see that it's not scheduled to start till 2012.  Bummer.  Clifton is going to be a real mess by this time next year

Here's an update. I hear the PD finally got around to publishing a similar article today.....

 

Lakewood Clifton Boulevard project off the table, Mayor Summers says city cannot afford project

Published: Friday, March 18, 2011, 8:00 AM

  By Gloria Eadeh, Sun News

 

LAKEWOOD - The Clifton Transportation Enhancement Program between the city, Cleveland and the Regional Transit Authority has come to a halt, according to Mayor Michael Summers.

 

After much discussion between RTA, Lakewood and Cleveland, Lakewood has said the project will not go on. All parties involved had been seeking funding to secure the project.

 

“That’s off the table now,” said Summers. “We notified RTA and we are not in a position to support that program.”

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.cleveland.com/sunpostherald/index.ssf/2011/03/lakewood_clifton_boulevard_pro.html

That sucks.  That stretch of road & neighborhoods could really benefit from this type of project.  The Cleveland section of Clifton is potholes galore.  The Lakewood section is nice & smooth but its 7 lanes of asphalt cutting through a nice residential area which needs a little break up

I suspect the Cleveland section will be completed, however. If so, Lakewoodites may get jealous after seeing Cleveland's finished product.

I hope Dennis is not to busy getting his name in the papers on Afghanistan and other pet projects to worry about getting that $5 million in Federal funding.  The Cleveland side of Clifton could certainly use it.  Let's get this done and make Lakewood jealous!

Another update from Lakewood saying they are back in for a "scaled-down" version of this project.

 

http://lakewood-oh.patch.com/articles/modified-clifton-boulevard-project-back-on-track 

 

I do hope Jay Westbrook fights to keep the full project moving forward, medians and all, on the Cleveland side of Clifton.

New bus stops and service upgrades, without tearing up a brand new road to replace it with another one.  Sounds like a good deal.

According to the article this still needs TRAC approval.  Sshh...everybody keep quiet so Kasich does not find out and screw Lakewood and Cleveland like he is screwing Cincinnati...after all it is not a freeway.

 

By the way....I had to laugh at Summers quote about what were we getting for $486,000.00...I would think that a landscaped median down Clinton at that price would be a steal and a wonderful amenity...instead he ridicules it....be a man and say we would love to have it but just don't have the $$$ to contribute.

I hope Dennis is not to busy getting his name in the papers on Afghanistan and other pet projects to worry about getting that $5 million in Federal funding.  The Cleveland side of Clifton could certainly use it.  Let's get this done and make Lakewood jealous!

 

Holy cow I could not agree more.  He seems totally oblivious to issues here at home and would rather focus on global issues which make him look foolish for trying to weigh in on them.

 

Aside from Dennis, I'm really wanting this project to go forward.  If they don't, Clifton needs repaved badly anyhow, so they might as well do some upgrades at the same time.

How about some love for Madison? That's like driving on the surface of the moon.

Same story on Cleveland.com yesterday:

 

"LAKEWOOD A major city enhancement project thought to be abandoned is back on the table, albeit on a smaller scale."

 

 

http://www.cleveland.com/sunpostherald/index.ssf/2011/03/lakewood_rta_revisit_clifton_b.html

clvlnder

 

Your rant is full of your opinions, and you are entitled to them.

 

But there is one major flaw in comparing Tober to Calabrese. I have worked for both men, and both are assets to transit. But they were here in vastly different times. Tober's tenure was had more money and thus service expansion. If Tober had to face what Calabrese has faced -- a shrinking budget every year -- he may have made some of the same decisions. We'll never know.

 

In this decade, federal dollars are tighter, state dollars are almost zero, and the sales tax revenue has tanked. Maintaining fiscal integrity -- keeping RTA afloat until things get better -- is a high priority.

Large scale exposure on Cleveland.com today for the Enhance Clifton project:

 

"A grand, taxpayer-funded vision to convert Clifton Boulevard's harsh swath of concrete to a kinder, tree-shaded route has wilted in Lakewood -- but lives on in Cleveland...."

 

Full Article:

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/04/plans_wilt_for_a_tree-lined_me.html

clvlnder

 

Your rant is full of your opinions, and you are entitled to them.

 

But there is one major flaw in comparing Tober to Calabrese. I have worked for both men, and both are assets to transit. But they were here in vastly different times. Tober's tenure was had more money and thus service expansion. If Tober had to face what Calabrese has faced -- a shrinking budget every year -- he may have made some of the same decisions. We'll never know.

 

In this decade, federal dollars are tighter, state dollars are almost zero, and the sales tax revenue has tanked. Maintaining fiscal integrity -- keeping RTA afloat until things get better -- is a high priority.

 

Jerry,

 

If you've noticed over time, I've tried to give Calabrese credit I believe he's deserved, esp:

 

- planning forward on the Blue Line expansion.

- being a strong, tireless advocate of increased operating funding.

- the POP payment system for the Red Line.

 

I'll even throw him another bone: staying with the historically difficult E. 120 station relocation to the point where, now, it looks like it will get done....

 

True, I'm not his biggest fan.  But even I haven't said the guy is all bad.

 

"A grand, taxpayer-funded vision to convert Clifton Boulevard's harsh swath of concrete to a kinder, tree-shaded route has wilted in Lakewood -- but lives on in Cleveland...."

 

I wonder why they feel the need to say "taxpayer-funded"? Like, where else will the money come from to build infrastructure??

 

"A grand, taxpayer-funded vision to convert Clifton Boulevard's harsh swath of concrete to a kinder, tree-shaded route has wilted in Lakewood -- but lives on in Cleveland...."

 

I wonder why they feel the need to say "taxpayer-funded"? Like, where else will the money come from to build infrastructure??

 

 

I was thinking the same thing KJP.  For all the accusations of the PD being a part of the liberal media conspiracy, they sure do drop in some lines that fan the flames of the quasi conservative bandwagon!

The PD has very much become a conservative newspaper. So I guess that means it's part of the conservative conspiracy.

 

That comment by them was certainly a "loaded" comment. I have noticed they frequently incorporate loaded comments in their pieces, then play the innocent card BS by saying that their comment wasn't inaccurate. My question is, what is the point of including it?

 

So if they are a fair and unbiased newspaper, then I should expect to see the words "taxpayer funded" when I read an article about the Inner Belt bridge construction, or the widening of a road in the suburbs, or about certain improvement project at Hopkins Airport? Yeah right.....

I'm a liberal democrat, and I have no problem with calling out projects as taxpayer-funded.  In this case the lack of suffcient taxpayer funds is a big part of the story.  And it is possible to fund many improvements through special assessments rather than taxpayer funds.  When the project mostly benefits properties immediately adjacent to it, a case could be made that special assessments are the more appropriate option. 

You've missed the point, 327. It's the PD's selective use of calling out of taxpayer-funded projects that we're discussing.

 

As for who benefits, that's another issue. It's one that Lakewood's mayor contends this project would benefit commuters living west of Lakewood. You can argue that point on your own, as it's one I have no opinion about.

Your point is clear, but my point is that other factors distinguish this particular project from the counterexamples you listed above.  Those all involve expanding some form of transit infrastructure.  This is not an expansion of anything.  It's a reduction.  I realize there are operational enhancements for the 55 bus involved, but to what extent do those require the resurfacing and/or the median?  Quite often, landscaping and other beautification projects are funded through special assessments of some kind.  BID, TIF, what have you.  Here we have transportation funds being used to shrink a roadway, as well as for beautification purposes.  It's an eyebrow-raiser if nothing else. 

 

But I completely agree with you on the PD's rightward slant.  It's plain as day, and I find it absurd when people still try to call it a liberal rag.

When did Clifton last have a tree lined median or did it never have one to begin with? Anyone have any photos?

Here is Clifton in Cleveland back when buses and street cars ran. But even at that time Clifton was just a two lane street with rail on what is today more lanes of traffic.

 

http://images.ulib.csuohio.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/brookins&CISOPTR=169&CISOBOX=1&REC=8