When did Clifton last have a tree lined median or did it never have one to begin with? Anyone have any photos?

Here is Clifton in Cleveland back when buses and street cars ran. But even at that time Clifton was just a two lane street with rail on what is today more lanes of traffic.

 

http://images.ulib.csuohio.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/brookins&CISOPTR=169&CISOBOX=1&REC=8

 

It never had a median. It was two lanes prior to 1948 with streetcar tracks on extra-large tree lawns. The streetcar tracks and tree lawns were eliminated to widen the road from two lanes to seven. It's been that way ever since.

Your point is clear, but my point is that other factors distinguish this particular project from the counterexamples you listed above.  Those all involve expanding some form of transit infrastructure.  This is not an expansion of anything.  It's a reduction.  I realize there are operational enhancements for the 55 bus involved, but to what extent do those require the resurfacing and/or the median?  Quite often, landscaping and other beautification projects are funded through special assessments of some kind.  BID, TIF, what have you.  Here we have transportation funds being used to shrink a roadway, as well as for beautification purposes.  It's an eyebrow-raiser if nothing else. 

 

But I completely agree with you on the PD's rightward slant.  It's plain as day, and I find it absurd when people still try to call it a liberal rag.

 

Interested to hear 327 why you believe this to be a reduction? 

 

There are no traffic lanes being removed.  If anything I see the neighborhood growing and prospering, and RTA's service along with it as more people realize the utility of living in a densely populated transit corridor.

Thanks for that clear up. Some previous articles had mentioned putting back in medians and restoring the boulevard as if it had been that way in the past.

 

It would sure look nice if Cleveland went through with this and lakewood passed on the opportunity . My only concern is that with so many driveways and cross streets that the amount of space that could be designated towards a median would be severely limited.

 

Would this also limit the amount of on street parking available for Clifton? The success of some of the new businesses our neighborhood has been able to attract in the past year (wine bar and be studios) require ample street parking. I'd hate to see this project make rental units or businesses harder to lease out.

Thanks for that clear up. Some previous articles had mentioned putting back in medians and restoring the boulevard as if it had been that way in the past.

 

It would sure look nice if Cleveland went through with this and lakewood passed on the opportunity . My only concern is that with so many driveways and cross streets that the amount of space that could be designated towards a median would be severely limited.

 

Would this also limit the amount of on street parking available for Clifton? The success of some of the new businesses our neighborhood has been able to attract in the past year (wine bar and be studios) require ample street parking. I'd hate to see this project make rental units or businesses harder to lease out.

 

As a resident I have followed this closely.

 

There would be no changes in on street parking, other than the usual rush hour time limitations that RTA is studying as a part of this project.  RTA would use the far right lanes as bus lanes during rush times.

 

Left turn lanes would be maintained as they are now, with some residents having to perform Uturns to get back to their driveways.  With three lanes of traffic to complete this maneuver I really don't see any problems other than at rush hour in either direction, which already makes for a long wait for a left turn anywhere on Clifton when opposing rush hour traffic. 

Interested to hear 327 why you believe this to be a reduction? 

 

There are no traffic lanes being removed.  If anything I see the neighborhood growing and prospering, and RTA's service along with it as more people realize the utility of living in a densely populated transit corridor.

 

All lanes are being narrowed and one lane is swtching to bus-only.  That's a reduction.

 

I see the neighborhood growing and prospering as well, in fact I'm moving there later this month.  And while I like the median idea, I just don't think it's all that necessary in a time of fiscal strain.  It would be nice to have, but there's a cost-benefit issue and myriad other capital needs for RTA.  RTA should not be in the treelawn business at a time like this (if ever).  That said, I fully support upgrading the bus stops and repaving the Cleveland portion of Clifton.   

Clifton's traffic is down sharply since the opening of I-90 in the 1970s. It doesn't need seven lanes of traffic anymore. The only time it needs anything close to four lanes is during rush hours. So we are now maintaining a huge road 20 hours a day to accommodate traffic on the other four hours, and that traffic is much less than what it was. The #55 buses do a good job of reducing traffic during those peak hours and alleviate the need for such a wide road. So it is worthwhile to devote a lane to them during the rush hours. If you travel this road during rush hours, many motorists already avoid the curb lane because of the buses which run every few minutes. As a resident of Clifton, I welcome replacing the center turn lane for a landscaped median and making the physical presence of transit facilities more substantial. Reducing the width of roads and reducing the amount of pavement for more pedestrian-oriented facilities is a proven means of enhancing a neighborhood -- especially one that was originally built around transit.

Interested to hear 327 why you believe this to be a reduction? 

 

There are no traffic lanes being removed.  If anything I see the neighborhood growing and prospering, and RTA's service along with it as more people realize the utility of living in a densely populated transit corridor.

 

All lanes are being narrowed and one lane is swtching to bus-only.  That's a reduction.

 

I see the neighborhood growing and prospering as well, in fact I'm moving there later this month.  And while I like the median idea, I just don't think it's all that necessary in a time of fiscal strain.  It would be nice to have, but there's a cost-benefit issue and myriad other capital needs for RTA.  RTA should not be in the treelawn business at a time like this (if ever).  That said, I fully support upgrading the bus stops and repaving the Cleveland portion of Clifton.   

 

Lanes are not being narrowed by much.  There was some concern that the median would kick Clifton out of the federal guidelines for truck width, but trucks are not allowed on the route anyway.  Because of this however it is being studied to widen the overall width slightly into the treelawns to allow for the median.

 

And as far as the lane restrictions, it would only be during the rush hour, which would benefit public transportation.  Isn't that a common goal of most everyone on this board? 

 

Even if you disagree with this idea, I can tell you from living in the neighborhood the right lane is underutilized in both rush hours because of the occasional parked car left behind or residents making right turns keeps the suburbanites firmly planted in the outer two lanes.

 

 

Because of this however it is being studied to widen the overall width slightly into the treelawns to allow for the median.

 

The only reason we should be paying for that much work is the re-installation of trolley lines.  Barring that, it's much ado about nothing because, as you note, commuters rarely use the right lane as it is.  I don't disagree with this idea in the abstract, I just can't fathom how it's getting such priority right now.  And tearing up Lakewood's just-paved portion of Clifton is wasteful no matter how you slice it.       

Because of this however it is being studied to widen the overall width slightly into the treelawns to allow for the median.

 

The only reason we should be paying for that much work is the re-installation of trolley lines.  Barring that, it's much ado about nothing because, as you note, commuters rarely use the right lane as it is.  I don't disagree with this idea in the abstract, I just can't fathom how it's getting such priority right now.  And tearing up Lakewood's just-paved portion of Clifton is wasteful no matter how you slice it.       

 

Perhaps this will lead to reinstallation of trolley lines (for our grandchildren).  And while it seems like bad timing, it's actually been in the works for several years.  From reading the current vision of the project I believe you will get your wish--Lakewood will go with a slimmed-down version sans medians.  Cleveland may push forward with the full project, but I don't think anyone will argue that Clifton through Cleveland needs to be completely torn up and rebuilt, including the sidewalks.

Decades of laws and policies have made regional transportation a federal responsibility, and Clifton is being used  for this purpose. What the transit vehicles' wheels and right of way are made out of is irrelevant.

 

As for the medians, I may move to the Cleveland side of Clifton. :-P

 

As for the medians, I may move to the Cleveland side of Clifton. :-P

 

We will welcome you with open arms (and a lower tax rate)!  :-D

With virtually no new construction in Edgewater the past ten years, the neighborhood definitely fared comparatively well in the census. Edgewater's 5.4% loss was better than Lakewood and most other inner ring suburbs and perceived trendy neighborhoods.

 

I would be very hesitant to expand into the treelawns. There are a lot of trees already very close to the road. Would be a waste to have to rip out big shady trees along the edge for new saplings in the median.

 

Ideally I would like to see selective medians only in the current footprint of some turn lanes, decorative lampposts, new architecturally pleasing bus stops(perhaps victorian era trolley shelters), and a rebranding in signs(similar to shaker).

Who's proposing to expand into the tree lawns?

The PD article had a brief sentence that talked about widening the street to accommodate the federal lane widths and still have the tree lined median.

With virtually no new construction in Edgewater the past ten years, the neighborhood definitely fared comparatively well in the census. Edgewater's 5.4% loss was better than Lakewood and most other inner ring suburbs and perceived trendy neighborhoods.

 

I would be very hesitant to expand into the treelawns. There are a lot of trees already very close to the road. Would be a waste to have to rip out big shady trees along the edge for new saplings in the median.

 

Ideally I would like to see selective medians only in the current footprint of some turn lanes, decorative lampposts, new architecturally pleasing bus stops(perhaps victorian era trolley shelters), and a rebranding in signs(similar to shaker).

 

Exactly, and the whole point of doing it was to allow enough room in the median for trees (given the federal lane width rules)..  So how could you justify widening the road and encroaching on the trees that are currently there, thus in many cases causing the removal of the current trees and not leaving enough room for new ones in the current tree lawns. 

They really need to get the exception in place for the width rule, since trucks are currently not allowed. 

I don't understand why they just can't design the median a few feet narrower and keep the existing road within its current footprint?

 

As someone mentioned above, the trees planted there are going to be saplings anyway.  It will be 100's of years before they reach the size of the trees on the devilstrip (I think that is an Akron term  :-D)

I don't understand why they just can't design the median a few feet narrower and keep the existing road within its current footprint?

 

As someone mentioned above, the trees planted there are going to be saplings anyway.  It will be 100's of years before they reach the size of the trees on the devilstrip (I think that is an Akron term  :-D)

 

Well that was also and option, of making it narrower and just putting shrubs in it.

I think the creative juices need to get flowing on this project. Tree lined median. ::YAWN:: it's been done a million times over. I'm no horticulturist, but shrubbery seems to grow quickly and can be more visually pleasing than trees. What would be wrong with a rose bush lined median, lavender bush median, lilac bush median, and so forth? What about a "cultural gardens" type of median, with each block's median having a certain theme? You could even have a sculpture park median with each block having a different type of artwork. There's a seemingly endless array of really cool options here that don't involve messing with federal lane width restrictions and trees that will take decades to fill out...

I don't understand why they just can't design the median a few feet narrower and keep the existing road within its current footprint?

 

As someone mentioned above, the trees planted there are going to be saplings anyway.  It will be 100's of years before they reach the size of the trees on the devilstrip (I think that is an Akron term  :-D)

 

there are numerous examples of medians/plantings that are less than 10 feet.

- tree grates downtown are usually 5x5

- parking lot edges downtown are just a few feet, perhaps 2 or 3

- most suburban parking lot medians have a small space for trees

 

why the large median requirement?

For those of us who care--there is a public comment section on the Enhance Clifton website for these and more ideas related to the project. 

 

http://enhanceclifton.com/node/6

Article on Cleveland.com that TRAC denied funds for Clifton Enhancement and RTA is going back to the drawing board.  Strange tone to the article...RTA is "saddened" by the decision.  I cannot believe that they actually thought they were going to get funds in a million years from this administration for this type of project.  I mean really....they have had to already been discussing back up plans long ago if they are truly serious about going forward.  What that could possibly be in this economic environment, however, is anybody's guess.

Here is the link to that article:  http://www.cleveland.com/sunpostherald/index.ssf/2011/04/odot_rejects_funding_request_f.html

 

What's sad is if you look at the list of ODOT TRAC funding, the top projects are 100% suburban and freeway projects....

 

 

What's sad is if you look at the list of ODOT TRAC funding, the top projects are 100% suburban and freeway projects....

 

Shocker.  Conservatives love government spending...when it's spent on them.

Today's update on the TRAC denial on Cleveland.com:

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/04/rta_cleveland_officials_unhapp.html

At least it will be repaved. :roll:

At least it will be repaved. :roll:

 

I'm not holding my breath on that.  We could just end up with 9 city guys dumping hot patch in the ruts....

According to the  FTA Discretionary Grant Announcement this morning, the Clifton Boulevard Enhancement Project is about to receive $3 million under the Livabilty Program:

 

http://fta.dot.gov/grants/13094.html

 

 

If the state won't return tax dollars back to the cities that pay them, then it's fortunate that at least the federal government will. Otherwise Ohio's older urban areas would be in an even worse position as a donor regions to newer suburbs and rural areas. We need to invest in public transportation to attract private investment in our older cities because Ohioans can no longer afford having their tax dollars used to demolish urban taxbases for more and wider freeways.

According to the  FTA Discretionary Grant Announcement this morning, the Clifton Boulevard Enhancement Project is about to receive $3 million under the Livabilty Program:

 

http://fta.dot.gov/grants/13094.html

 

 

 

Great news!  I'm not up on funding sources--who can explain what this amount and origin might mean for the project?

Is the plan for the project still BRT or has that changed?

SO where is that 3 million dollars going for the Clifton road BRT?

 

why does a road where trucks are banned from using need roads wide enough for trucks?

Is the plan for the project still BRT or has that changed?

 

My understanding is that there is no longer a BRT component.

BRT is long dead on Clifton.

 

"Enhance Clifton"  is a waiting area and beautification project--has nothing to do with BRT.

 

I've pointed this out several times on this thread when UO forum members started complaining about BRT--this project has no BRT component at all.

Also I thought Lakewood opted out, since they didnt want to contribute their match...

No updates here yet: http://www.enhanceclifton.com/

If you click that government grant link and click around a few more times, you'll come across what I pasted below. Doesn't look to be anything terribly unique. Better spaced out stations? They are already every 3 or 4 blocks right now. The real time lighted GPS stations will be great though. No mention of creating a median, but I wonder what landscaping they have in mind?

 

Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority

Project: Clifton Boulevard Enhancement Project

Grant Amount; $3,000,000

The project will include improvements at several transit stations in the Cities of Lakewood and Cleveland. Improvements include bus only curb-side lanes during peak commuting hours, traffic signal prioritization for emergency and transit vehicles, better spacing of transit stops, concrete bus pads at designated transit stops, upgraded bicycle and pedestrian amenities, and lighted bus shelters with real-time GPS based bus arrival monitors, emergency phones, and landscaping.

I'm curious what factors make something count as BRT.  Articulated buses?  Bus-only lanes?  Center lanes?  Special stations?  Timed lights?  This project and the healthline both feature most of the items from that list.  Perhaps BRT refers to a continuum...?  It's not a very useful term.  As far as I'm concerned, it means "you really should consider rail instead."  Transit wise, I'd be happy if they would just use longer buses on Clifton.  They're packed whenever CSU is in session.  Last week I saw an old man almost fall out the door-- at speed-- because it was so crowded.

 

I cross Clifton often enough that I wouldn't mind having a median.  It can be challenging.  But wow, Lakewood just repaved this road 3-4 years ago.  Outrageously wasteful to tear it up so soon.  They must have known something of this proposal when that went through.  If this proposal came after Lakewood's project, it should have gone way down the priority list, to be scheduled in a more cost-effective manner.  Millions of dollars worth of useful life could be thrown away here. 

As I said above, Lakewood opted out of the upgrades since they didnt want to contribute the match necessary which at this point in time was only considered a luxury.  Therefore Im not sure what role they play in this announcement.  Maybe the previous things had more to do with a median and landscaping as opposed to the simple transit upgrades listed above. 

I'm curious what factors make something count as BRT.  Articulated buses?  Bus-only lanes?  Center lanes?  Special stations?  Timed lights?  This project and the healthline both feature most of the items from that list.  Perhaps BRT refers to a continuum...?  It's not a very useful term.  As far as I'm concerned, it means "you really should consider rail instead."  Transit wise, I'd be happy if they would just use longer buses on Clifton.  They're packed whenever CSU is in session.  Last week I saw an old man almost fall out the door-- at speed-- because it was so crowded.

 

I cross Clifton often enough that I wouldn't mind having a median.  It can be challenging.  But wow, Lakewood just repaved this road 3-4 years ago.  Outrageously wasteful to tear it up so soon.  They must have known something of this proposal when that went through.  If this proposal came after Lakewood's project, it should have gone way down the priority list, to be scheduled in a more cost-effective manner.  Millions of dollars worth of useful life could be thrown away here. 

 

As has been said before, this isn't putting BRT on Clifton. The list of things the $3 million is pegged for is rather generic outside of the the lighted bus stops telling passengers when the next bus will arrive. There's no mention of redoing Clifton outside of putting in concrete bus pads (which help extend the life of the road). There is no mention of putting in a median, just using the current outer lanes (which are currently no park zones during rush hour) as dedicated bus lanes.

 

But yes, I agree, Clifton could use the articulated buses during the day. The problem is that outside of the morning and evening rush hour, the 55 only goes down Clifton every hour. This isn't frequent enough so you end up packing a bus where people are crammed in like sardines. RTA has neglected this route a lot over the past few years. So it will be interesting to see what this grant will do to service. Will signs on Friday night in the new bus stops really say, "next bus arriving in 2 days, 8 hours, and 7 minutes" ?

As I said above, Lakewood opted out of the upgrades since they didnt want to contribute the match necessary which at this point in time was only considered a luxury.  Therefore Im not sure what role they play in this announcement.  Maybe the previous things had more to do with a median and landscaping as opposed to the simple transit upgrades listed above. 

 

I'd imagine that Lakewood would also get new bus stops. Also, Lakewood just recently installed their own traffic regulation system on Clifton, I would assume that this could tie into a GPS system on an RTA bus.

WestBLVD is the Cleveland part of Clifton still crappy?  It still hasnt been re-paved is that correct?

WestBLVD is the Cleveland part of Clifton still crappy?  It still hasnt been re-paved is that correct?

 

It has not been repaved. It's not in the best of shape, but in terms of most Cleveland streets, it's not that bad, but considering the traffic flow, it should be a high priority street for repaving. On a semi related note, I think they may be repaving the Cleveland side of Edgewater Drive soon as a "your tax dollars at work" sign popped up a few weeks ago. Funny that the street that carries so few cars gets a redo first!

Perhaps to eliminate confusion there should be a thread dedicated to the "Enhance Clifton" project and this Clifton/Shoreway BRT thread should be retired, as the project has been long ago (I believe I asked this last year in this same thread).

WestBLVD is the Cleveland part of Clifton still crappy?  It still hasnt been re-paved is that correct?

 

WestBLVD is the Cleveland part of Clifton still crappy?  It still hasnt been re-paved is that correct?

 

It has not been repaved. It's not in the best of shape, but in terms of most Cleveland streets, it's not that bad, but considering the traffic flow, it should be a high priority street for repaving. On a semi related note, I think they may be repaving the Cleveland side of Edgewater Drive soon as a "your tax dollars at work" sign popped up a few weeks ago. Funny that the street that carries so few cars gets a redo first!

 

I agree WestBLVD.  Considering the volume of traffic it carries I believe Clifton deserves much better attention that it has received.  It's a wagon-rut second-world trail from the Shoreway to W 117th (where Lakewood resurfaced the remainder within the last two years).  Just drive Clifton on a rainy night and you'll see what I mean.  The ruts hold the water and cause a drive even at below the speedlimit to be a test in driving skill to maintain your lane, plus risk being blinded by the spray of passing motorists.  Reminds me of some roads in Puerto Rico! 

 

In addition, most of the sidewalks are broken, caving in or generally poor condition.  I had a good laugh a while back when the city spent a bunch of money putting accessible ramps in at the intersections, but the sidewalks inbetween the ramps are hardly hospitable to a person in a wheelchair!!!! 

 

The problem now is, the volume of traffic is as high as it's ever been thanks to suburban commuter detours to avoid the innerbelt bridge.  Reconstructing Clifton right now would cause some serious traffic issues on the west side (though I was informed by Jay Westbrook's office that the Clifton has been included in a near-future budget for resurfacing).

Perhaps to eliminate confusion there should be a thread dedicated to the "Enhance Clifton" project and this Clifton/Shoreway BRT thread should be retired, as the project has been long ago (I believe I asked this last year in this same thread).

 

I can simply rename the thread. And if a Clifton BRT project should ever re-emerge, I can rename it again. Deal?

 

 

I can simply rename the thread. And if a Clifton BRT project should ever re-emerge, I can rename it again. Deal?

 

 

Works for me and makes complete sense!  We don't talk about the Medical Mart under a thread dedicated to the Forest City riverfront site!  They are two different concepts and projects....

Done

Yeah thanks KJP!  I won't truly consider this a victory until the project is actually done.  Not holding my breath....

OK, how did I miss this??

 

NOACA allots funds for West 73rd underpass, Clifton bus lanes

 

Posted: 07/13/2012

 

CLEVELAND - A project the city of Cleveland views as a gateway to connect a west side neighborhood to Lake Erie has been given a boost by Northeast Ohio Areawide Coordinating Agency (NOACA).

 

....Other area projects receiving funding at Friday’s meeting were:

 

-Construction of curb-lane bus lanes in Lakewood and Cleveland along Clifton Boulevard from the west end of the Shoreway to the west end Lakewood bus loop. NOACA earmarked $9.5 million in funding for the bus lane project.

 

Read more at:

http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_news/cleveland_metro/NOACA-allots-funds-for-West-73-underpass-Clifton-bus-lanes#ixzz215vynt1y

^ Any idea how this will affect on-street parking?