Here is the supposedly glorious Pikeville Hampton Inn (which I don't really find to be anything impressive):

 

 

Here is a rendering of our new proposed hotel:

 

 

 

To be honest, both aren't special (thus, both are comparable).  Which is sad.

The garage looks pretty good at least... does a good job of hiding itself as a garage.

Yup. But it was heavily criticized by review board as too faux historic. At the same time, everyone would hate it if they tried some modern experiment that will look dated in 15 years. Considering the budget is fixed (city/port are building it) there isn't room ($$) for some crazy wild exterior.

Are people really disappointed  that a Holiday Inn doesn't have an exciting design?  Its a Holiday Inn.  That's what a Holiday Inn looks like. 

^Some posters here don't seem to have a firm grasp on reality when it comes to development projects.

Am I really the only one that finds that Hampton Inn hideous?

I can understand being upset when an historic structure of good quality is razed to make way for EIFS and cinder block wonders.  Here we actually have a case where this structure improves upon what is currently there.  I'm okay with that.

I will take that Holiday inn over a outdated parking garage any day. not every project is going to be amazing, people just need something  to complain  about.

Are people really disappointed  that a Holiday Inn doesn't have an exciting design?  Its a Holiday Inn.  That's what a Holiday Inn looks like. 

 

I spent about 20 minutes googling holiday inn's.  Most were horrendous.  There were a couple in europe that looked pretty good.

^Some posters here don't seem to have a firm grasp on reality when it comes to development projects.

 

I think it's more financial constraints. This is a project that is receiving taxpayer monies, and isn't something that should be embellished with ornate architecture that's not going to raise its profile (or rates) any further. If there was more private monies being put towards the project, or if it was a flagship hotel for Holiday Inn, I can see more ornamentation. And that's not to say that all buildings or infrastructure that uses public money needs to be boring or cladded with styrofoam, but that labor and material costs makes it prohibitive in many cases to do anything extraordinary.

 

I think there was a post someone made on a site (was it the Atlantic Cities?) that had coined the term "staritecture," and used it in relation to a case very similar to this. It was an office spec building for a downtown, much like many suburban office blocks, but in an urban setting with appropriate frontages and massing, and replaced a surface parking lot. But by some in the planning / design community, it was a bore because it had few embellishments - it was glass cladded with a brick pedestal, and its design was fairly mundane. Nothing special, but nothing inappropriate. But it was almost all privately financed.

 

Do we start telling developers that they need to follow very specific standards and hope for the best, potentially driving away developers, or accept that not every building will be gazed upon by UrbanOhio's hungry eyes?

Are people really disappointed  that a Holiday Inn doesn't have an exciting design?  Its a Holiday Inn.  That's what a Holiday Inn looks like. 

 

I spent about 20 minutes googling holiday inn's.  Most were horrendous.  There were a couple in europe that looked pretty good.

 

I did a google image search for "Holiday Inn Exterior" and looked at the first 30-40 results. What did you spend the next 19 minutes doing?

I spent about 20 minutes googling holiday inn's.  Most were horrendous.  There were a couple in europe that looked pretty good.

 

I did a google image search for "Holiday Inn Exterior" and looked at the first 30-40 results. What did you spend the next 19 minutes doing?

 

I started reading forum's from the other cities where people complained about the quality of their new holiday inn's. 

Some people are just besides themselves, feeling they can comment on their view of the architectural appeal of everything constructed downtown. At ths same time, I read this will be the first new hotel constructed in Cincinnati in 24 years? And it will have 200 rooms and be built on top of a parking garage, not with a separate surface lot. But still the urbaniasts want to complain? You people need to get real, no what you really need to do is put your money behind the projects you deem worthy.

Some people are just besides themselves, feeling they can comment on their view of the architectural appeal of everything constructed downtown. At ths same time, I read this will be the first new hotel constructed in Cincinnati in 24 years? And it will have 200 rooms and be built on top of a parking garage, not with a separate surface lot. But still the urbaniasts want to complain? You people need to get real, no what you really need to do is put your money behind the projects you deem worthy.

 

Most of what you said was false. Read up some more.

100 rooms next to a city/port built new parking garage and yes, first new construction hotel. 

 

Though your overall points are correct.

Some people are just besides themselves, feeling they can comment on their view of the architectural appeal of everything constructed downtown. At ths same time, I read this will be the first new hotel constructed in Cincinnati in 24 years? And it will have 200 rooms and be built on top of a parking garage, not with a separate surface lot. But still the urbaniasts want to complain? You people need to get real, no what you really need to do is put your money behind the projects you deem worthy.

 

1) People can express their views about the project. It doesn't mean I agree with them or think that their opinion on this particular project should hold it up.

 

2) There was a new hotel built just off of UC's medical campus a couple years back.

 

3) It will have 117 rooms

 

4) It is not being built on top of a parking garage. There will be a separate garage built that will be shared between the hotel and city.

 

5) That argument about putting our own money behind projects is a terrible one. Next time you comment on the traffic problems that Liberty Center will cause you, I'm going to tell you to buy the land from them to stop the project if you are so against it. I bet no one commenting has the money to back a project like this, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't be able to criticize, comment, or approve of designs for buildings that are being constructed in our city.

 

My personal opinion: this looks a lot nicer than any Holiday Inn I've ever remembered. Could be a lot worse. By the time this portion of downtown's property values increase enough we can tear this down and build something desirable and interesting.

City Council paves way for new downtown Cincinnati Holiday Inn

Chris Wetterich Staff reporter - Cincinnati Business Courier

 

 

The Cincinnati City Council approved two ordinances Wednesday aimed at allowing construction to begin in July on a new Holiday Inn at the northwest corner of Seventh and Broadway streets.

 

The ordinances change several aspects of a 2011 development agreement with a subsidiary of Rolling Hills Hospitality:

 

    They reduce the number of hotel rooms the developer is required to build from 200 to 115 because of “shifts in the financial picture.”

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/05/14/city-council-paves-way-for-new-downtown-cincinnati.html

And the existing parking garage will be half demolished, with the remainder used for Holiday Inn Express.

^ Disappointing.

 

Not that any garage looks nice, but that one is beyond hideous.

And folks were complaining about the last proposed garage looking too fake - when in reality it was perfectly acceptable, quite nice, and went above-and-beyond what a developer needed to do. Now we get - this. Cost savings.

Wait, I'm confused, that article doesn't say any of that about the current garage. It states it'll be demolished by the end of the year and still makes reference to the new garage to be built at 7th and Sycamore.

It's in the Enquirer version: http://www.cincinnati.com/story/money/2014/05/14/new-downtown-hotel/2139294/

 

"Under the new plan, the hotel would have 115 rooms instead of 200. A land swap would also give the city the former American Red Cross building at Eighth and Sycamore streets and Rolling Hills a portion of city-owned property at Seventh and Broadway streets.

 

Then, the city would demolish a portion of the old garage that sits on the future hotel site and raze the former American Red Cross building by the end of 2014.

 

In lieu of a new parking garage being developed in time for the hotel’s opening, the city would reserve 120 parking spaces at existing garage sites."

It's in the Enquirer version: http://www.cincinnati.com/story/money/2014/05/14/new-downtown-hotel/2139294/

 

In lieu of a new parking garage being developed in time for the hotel’s opening, the city would reserve 120 parking spaces at existing garage sites."

 

I don't think part of the garage is staying up - I think the Enquirer just worded it's article poorly. From the business courier:

 

"If the city does not build the new garage within two years, the city will ensure that 120 spaces are available at all times for transient parkers via a combination of locations and ask council to pass an ordinance allowing the developer an exemption from the city’s parking requirements."

 

This likely means the Broadway garage across the street and surface parking somewhere.

I don't think there is any way to access the upper levels of the existing garage if the east portion of it is demolished for the hotel.

Thanks for the clarification. I never parked inside - but looking at the aerial, the ramp is from the eastern side, so if it was partially removed - it'd have to be the east side. Which would make the upper level all but useless...

I thought the little part about the possibility of if a garage is not built, then the developer can ask for an exception to the required parking minimums was interesting.  What if the city didn't build a new garage at all, but just made a certain number of street spots or other garage spots available for the hotel?  I'm gonna guess that would save a lot of money if possible.  Also it would be a good example of how the new form-based code zoning can work.

CBD is not covered in form-based code. But it does have reduced parking requirements.

Well that came out of left field. I'm really curious as to where that bit of information will go. This stretch would be so much more alive with a hotel, street retail in the garage, and a (hopefully sizable) residential tower above. It seems like the city is starting to get to that point where residential towers are going to start springing up on some of the bigger open spaces around Downtown. Not as quickly as in many other cities, but right now there are currently what, two under construction (depending on what your floor count requirements are to be called a tower) one hopefully starting soon at 4th and Race, a potential 19 story building on top of Macy's, a possible W&S one at some point probably on the spinning clock garage, and now this spot? That's pretty substantial in addition to all the residential conversions.

EXCLUSIVE: Another downtown residential tower in the works – here’s where it could be built

Chris Wetterich Staff reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier

 

 

Details are sparse, but it looks like another downtown residential tower may be in the works on the site of a to-be-built seven-story parking garage at Eighth and Sycamore streets.

 

It’s connected to a complicated deal to build a long-planned Holiday Inn on downtown’s northeast side.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/morning_call/2014/06/usive-another-downtown-residential-tower-in-the.html

 

Great digging by the Business Courier, as usual. However it doesn't necessarily indicate that a new residential tower is anywhere close to being a reality. We could end up in a similar situation as the "7 at Broadway" development, where the garage was built years before the residential component kicked off.

EXCLUSIVE: Another downtown residential tower in the works – here’s where it could be built

Chris Wetterich Staff reporter- Cincinnati Business Courier

 

 

Details are sparse, but it looks like another downtown residential tower may be in the works on the site of a to-be-built seven-story parking garage at Eighth and Sycamore streets.

 

It’s connected to a complicated deal to build a long-planned Holiday Inn on downtown’s northeast side.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/morning_call/2014/06/usive-another-downtown-residential-tower-in-the.html

 

Great digging by the Business Courier, as usual. However it doesn't necessarily indicate that a new residential tower is anywhere close to being a reality. We could end up in a similar situation as the "7 at Broadway" development, where the garage was built years before the residential component kicked off.

 

12 years, to be precise. 

Who's counting?

This project was seen as part of downtown's comeback back in 2001 when it was announced and 2002 when it broke ground.  You have to remember that much of downtown was vacant and the gateway condos hadn't happened yet. There was a minor dust-up between this developer and the owners of Taco Casa, who forced the garage to be built around it.  Immediately after finishing the garage the owner of Taco Casa had it torn down. 

 

A photo by me  in 2002:

 

 

 

I am still slightly confused about the placement of the hotel/garage...

 

So from what I understand the Hotel is going to take up about half of where the current old garage is and part of where the Red Cross building is? 

 

Then once those are torn down a garage will take up the other portion of the block on the western side?

 

I wonder when some movement will start  to take place at the sight...

The street frontage along Sycamore will be entirely the new garage with street level retail and potentially a residential building above. The Holiday Inn will occupy the rest of the space along 7th Street that the current garage occupies.

 

Wasn't it said they're hoping for the garage to be gone by the end of the summer? Or was it the end of the year?

The street frontage along Sycamore will be entirely the new garage with street level retail and potentially a residential building above. The Holiday Inn will occupy the rest of the space along 7th Street that the current garage occupies.

 

Wasn't it said they're hoping for the garage to be gone by the end of the summer? Or was it the end of the year?

 

Oh okay I understand now, the wording on some of the articles was particularly confusing about the arrangement of structures.

 

That will be nice when completed... that block is pretty dead now with the hideous garage and dead red cross building. Hopefully the streetlevel retail/hotel can capture some of the overflow from the casino and bring some life along that portion.. especially if residential is added to the other NAP buildings in the area.

 

Now if only something could be done about the gigantic empty lots north of St. Xavier Church along Sycamore....

Yeah Sycamore all the way through the basin is generally a pretty dead street that needs a lot of help. This will fill a nice gap of life. The rendering of the GE building on the lot across the street that was in one of the articles looked like it would do wonders to liven up that area. Those huge lots will probably end up being some large mixed-use projects with the streetcar being a block away on Main. It's such a huge hole in Downtown that needs to be filled. And there are some other garages in the area I'd love to see go.

I agree.  And actually there is a decent amount of residential along that stretch when you consider there are the Sycamore Place Lofts... East 8 Lofts.. and the Renaissance (On top of Silverglades) and the Seven @ Broadway is being added in the area as well.. but there isnt much going on there in terms of vitality in the area.

 

Would be great if North American Properties continues to define and develop that area by getting one of those big lots.  The P&G Garage (i believe P&G uses it) that looks like a huge cement block doesnt do much for sycamore that is fore sure.

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/money/2014/06/25/downtown-holiday-inn-advances/11353019/

 

"About $11 million would go toward the project. Before year's end, the city is expected to complete demolition of the 58-year-old garage."

 

...

 

"Previously, Rolling Hills announced the project would be cut nearly in half, scaling down from a $14 million development with more than 200 rooms."

 

So let me get this straight..... Cranley is supporting $11 million city dollars for a new 725 space garage and a $14 million (less ?) Holiday Inn, but wouldn't support $12 million city dollars for a larger garage and $82 million, 300 unit luxury apartment tower with a grocery at 4th and Race?

 

Am I missing something here?

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/money/2014/06/25/downtown-holiday-inn-advances/11353019/

 

"About $11 million would go toward the project. Before year's end, the city is expected to complete demolition of the 58-year-old garage."

 

...

 

"Previously, Rolling Hills announced the project would be cut nearly in half, scaling down from a $14 million development with more than 200 rooms."

 

So let me get this straight..... Cranley is supporting $11 million city dollars for a new 725 space garage and a $14 million (less ?) Holiday Inn, but wouldn't support $12 million city dollars for a larger garage and $82 million, 300 unit luxury apartment tower with a grocery at 4th and Race?

 

Am I missing something here?

 

Yes... two letters...

 

P G (Not Sittenfeld)

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/money/2014/06/25/downtown-holiday-inn-advances/11353019/

 

"About $11 million would go toward the project. Before year's end, the city is expected to complete demolition of the 58-year-old garage."

 

...

 

"Previously, Rolling Hills announced the project would be cut nearly in half, scaling down from a $14 million development with more than 200 rooms."

 

So let me get this straight..... Cranley is supporting $11 million city dollars for a new 725 space garage and a $14 million (less ?) Holiday Inn, but wouldn't support $12 million city dollars for a larger garage and $82 million, 300 unit luxury apartment tower with a grocery at 4th and Race?

 

Am I missing something here?

 

I don't think it's clear, but looking back at the first article from Urban Cincy in the 4th and Race thread, it seems like they were giving $12 million to the developer to build the 30 story tower on top of the 1000 space garage--and the developer would have owned the building, garage and all.  Here, based on the article as it reads, it looks like the city will own the parking garage that is going to be built at 7th and Sycamore. 

 

Again, I don't know for sure because the articles are not clear, but if that reading is correct, it is a big difference between owning the garage that is built and giving the money to someone else who will own the building.  I'm sure someone else can chime in and clarify how it would have worked. 

I'm pretty sure the city was going to own the 4th and Race garage.  I think it was mentioned in the parking lease deal discussion but not 100%.

I believe the city would own the garage. The 12 million dollar loan would have been forgiven if the developer kept the grocery store open for 5 years.

The original plan did not have the city owning the garage. The new proposal does.

I'm pretty sure the city was going to own the 4th and Race garage.  I think it was mentioned in the parking lease deal discussion but not 100%.

 

Are you sure?  I didn't read any of the articles that way.  It sounded like they were going to own the retrofitted/new Tower Place garage, but not the garage under the new high-rise, at least based on my reading. 

All of this has got to go...

 

 

 

Yeah, parking garage and hotel here is really going to improve that little corner of downtown.  Looking forward to it. 

Especially if the new parking garage there allows for additional residential development. Either by building on top of the parking garage or across the street on those two big surface lots. 

What is the building going up behind the Red Cross building?

What is the building going up behind the Red Cross building?

 

It's Seven at Broadway.

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,198.140.html

3/21/15