I am from Cincinnati and I make it a point to refer to Clifton as "Uptown". I do this because I think it should be tied in with downtown, the two are dependent on each other and the survival of OTR depends on this as well.

I've kept rather quite on this project but I thought I'd throw my two cents in.

 

I can see the goods and bads from both sides of the arguments.  I pride UC in that they have taken a stance in improving the neighborhoods surrounding the campus.  But lets not get too carried away on UC's actions.  UC is basically just a big business in that everything they do is for their own benefit.  Their main goal is to increase enrollment and get higher quality students.  And by building these developments they're just trying to get and retain the kids that would otherwise go to the lifestyle schools (OU,Miami, etc..).  I think this is very evident in the businesses they have recruited so far.  I know that UC personally did not recruit these businesses, but if they had as much community interest as they hype then I would assume you'd see alot more Cincinnati based stores and maybe even a few small businesses.  And the management would have been from Cincinnati not Charlotte, NC or wherever they are from.

 

As far as the owner occupied housing goes, I too like everybody else think that it is great and essential for the area.  But my problem with this is the construction of housing that nobody in the area can afford.  I read a study where something like 75-80% of the people that work for the university and the hospitals in the area will not be able to afford living in these condos (along with all the new ones on MLK).  I don't neccessarily believe that jmeck is hating on the rich, only that UC and CHCURC are basically saying that only higher income people take care of their properties and their neighborhoods and that is the only type of people that they want in the area.  I also believe that too many people are hyping this up as this great new urbansit project, when if you look at the new urbanism principles it basically states that we need to first preserve our inner cities and treasure what good things we already have.  Didn't this project just destroy some good things that we already had?  Some rehab work to those former row houses and you have housing that people in the area can afford to buy.  This whole area in my opinion would have been much more exciting and interesting with infill development in the places that definately needed it with the mixture of old that was there.

ok, there's ONE picture of the new buildings in the last 4 pages of this thread...what gives guys?!  I drop in for an update every couple months and I am left disappointed!  I guess I'll just have to get them myself when I drop in on the old 'hood at the end of the month!

I

drop in for an update every couple months and I am left disappointed!  I guess I'll just have to get them myself when I drop in on the old 'hood at the end of the month!

The picture you would see would be a bigger dissapointment. This neighborhood got raped much like the west end in the 50's urban renewal crusade style but in a smaller scale. The only good thing I see about this project is they got rid of a few drive thru fast food chains and it will bring more money into the area when the Gap-yuppies start moving in. This project is so bland, I hope this is not what the Banks project will look like when it is built.

MGD, there's not a whole lot to see except for that one massive building.  The rest isn't even started yet.  It's basically dirt and rubble.

 

Here is a photo thread of Calhoun Street that I have posted for Mister Good Day and others:

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=6505.0

 

 

Thanks Don!

I walked down the street two weeks ago and felt like I was in an urban area outside of the remaining suburban hell holes that still linger across the street while they wait their turn to be demolished.  I envision an experience on the scale of one by the University of Pittsburgh (Oakland Area).  They too did some urban infill not too different from this one and it blended well with the existing structures.  Does UC have any plans to open a Bearcats store on Calhoun?  That would be a great addition.  Does the school have a Bearcats store that is available to the public?  Someone should contact them and suggest this.  I know we have a few UC Alums floating around this board.

there is talk of a "Bearcat cafe and Hall of fame restaurant....this is as close to bearcat thing as they are planning as of now....but i haven't heard anything about those plans for a while.

 

 

 

Is there a public store that is dedicated to UC Bearcat apparel?  It seems hard to believe that a school the size of UC would not have one.  I am also not talking about a campus store that is meant for students only.

How about the bookstore right next to Jimmy Johns. That's open to the public and has a lot of Bearcat apparel.

Isn't Dubois still open?  My brother was there a few weeks ago and bought a bunch of Bearcat stuff.  I believe the bookstore on campus is open to the public.  Even though my username suggests otherwise, I have been in UC's bookstore a few times.  ;)  Of course, I was just picking up stuff for my brother.

I caught this snippet on WCPO.com:

 

Restaurant Opening 14 New Locations

 

Reported by: 9News

Web produced by: Mark Sickmiller

Photographed by: 9News

First posted: 1/17/2006 6:00:22 PM

 

You'll soon see more Panera Bread restaurants in the tri-state.  The company is adding 24 new stores in Cincinnati and Columbus.  Of those, 14 new stores will soon be opening in our area.  There's no word on exactly where those new locations will be.

 

-- ---------------------

Hopefully one of those 14 new locations will be on Calhoun St.!

How about the bookstore right next to Jimmy Johns. That's open to the public and has a lot of Bearcat apparel.

 

I am aware of the bookstore but many Universities have self owned stores or franchise out a store that sells nothing but apparel & logo odds & ends.

Two things:

 

First, you can buy a ton of UC apparel at both Dubois' bookstore as well as the UC bookstore on campus which is open to the public.

 

Second, while the new building may be large, I believe it is nothing but urban, it is residential over retail (plenty of glass too) with underground parking (i.e. mixed-use) and it is built right to the edge of the sidewalk.  I don't know how much more urban you can get.  As for its massing, it is nowhere near as tall as the Siddall and Calhoun dorms and steps down nicely in height to the school and the church.  Finally, let's not forget that this thing replaced every urbaner's bane, a large, unsightly parking lot!

I am aware that UC has a bookstore, every school does and Dubois, but tourists and visitors of the area might not know of Dubois and it doesn't advertise that it offers apparel.  UC should have a flagship apparel store on Calhoun or in a noticeable location. 

As for Dubois not advertising its apparel......With the newly renovated Dubois store offering mostly apparel and novelty items.  As you walk along the street and look in the windows all you see is apparel and novelty items....the new renovations have opened the store up, made it more inviting, hidden the books out of plain view upstairs, and now offers more exiting environment that any tourist craves.  It have flat screen TV's going...electronic signs and tons of life.

 

As for the Chicago Gyro's place.....absolutely wonderful.  It is another great example of the facade improvement program in place for that area...others include (Baba Budan's Coffee Shop, Dubois, Mac's Pizza, Lances Art Supplie, Arbys, and Starbucks).  Chicago Gyro's is probably the best example though, it has opened up the store with huge storefront windows, added new lighting outside, and increased visibility of the wonderful/unique restaurant.

 

Continuing on with the lack of stores in the new Calhoun bldg.  These retail locations were not ready in time for the beginning of the 2005 school year.  This would be the best time for any retail tenant to open there, seeing as how that is the busiest time of the year in that area.  Potbelly's got finished extremely quickly and was able to see some good months before the winter duldrom hit clifton.  I imagine you will see a flury of activity in those retail locations over the summer when labor is easier to find, less congestion around UC, and prepare for a huge opening at the start of the new school year.

I hope so the whole area is going to reap huge benefits of the new money being spent in the around uc.

Baba budans is a great example the old building had a good feel to it but if I had never had their coffee before i wouldn't have just walked in to check it out, but now the new building is great very open inviting and they also sell high quality beer now. I'm allways in favor of renovating instead of demolition but some of thouse building just had to go. I relay wish they wouldn't have gotten rid of in the wood that was the best place in the city to get breakfast at anytime of day, but it could have used a face lift on the inside all thouse years of smoke really made it kind of dingy.

Too add to the comment about Panera Bread opening 24 new stores (10 of which will be within the Cincinnati market).  I work for Panera Bread and the corporate people in the Cincinnati market have said that the Calhoun St. location will be the next Panera Bread to open in Cincy!

:-D thats great

To give a more precise timetable on that Panera Bread opening I talked about:  My store received an email from corporate execs reguarding store openings...and it said that Calhoun St. will open in June of 2006.

^ Thanks for the update.

Heres another update on retailers for Calhoun St. Marketplace:

 

-work has begun inside on Ben & Jerry's....with a completion scheduled for this spring

 

-work has also begun on Boloco (a mexican eatery)...i believe also scheduled to open in the spring

 

For those interested here is a link to Boloco's website to give you a feel of what it is.  There are only a few locations around the nation...I believe maybe 10 or so.

 

http://www.inspiredburritos.com/

cool.  Glad to see the place start to fill up. 

They have finally glitzed up the bldg.  There has been an abundance of empty storefronts along the Calhoun St. since the beginning of the schoolyear.  They have finally added some life to the bldg.  Banners now hang on every window along the street.  These banners advertise CHURC and other Uptown organizations.  There are also three stores being worked on simultaniously with matching banners (to the others) showing what they are.

 

There are still the two that I mentioned earlier (Boloco and Ben & Jerry's), but there is now a third and it is not the Panera Bread that has listed an opening in May.  The new store where work has begun is Salsaritas.  It is another Mexican restuarant pretty similar to Chipotle (if you ask me).  I am glad to see life being brought to this former desolate area of Uptown.

 

For more info on Salsaritas go to:

http://www.salsaritas.com/index.html

The banners have a suprisingly positive effect on the area. The area doesn't seem quite so empty now that the windows are filled with color. Really excited about this spring as those store fronts start filling up. When some of these new stores open up, maybe they will start construction on the dirt pile across the street. :lol:

I think getting the development going on the larger part of the redevelopment project across the street will help fill the rest of the vacant store fronts.

 

However, some commuter students said that while retail stores might benefit Clifton residents, food is really all they want.

 

"I'm not really on campus but to eat and go to classes," said Justine Ward, a graduate student studying school psychology.

 

I Hate commuter students  :shoot:

^And I thought the whole point of this development was to make settling in the area attractive, not to cater to commuter students.  I also think it's funny that the board of trustees was concerned about the mix of stores.  They certainly didn't have any qualms about putting two burrito places in the same building.

 

 

 

I think that your information is slightly skewed. Boloco is a burrito place similar to chipotle. But even then if you look at their menu it is quite different than chipotle. Salsaritas is a different kind of restaurant. Salsaritas is a sit down style of a restaurant. Also, i think that CHCURC is trying to make sure that the area does not become a "glorified food court". I think that their plan for the area will entice a more diverse array of stores because of their strict development principles.

I would love to see a book store like Joesph Beth, or  borders. In my dream world a wild mikes, they have the best wings in Cincinnati.

How about an Ikea Express?  I don't think one exists but it would make for a good test location :)

I'd say when they are done across the street that I would love to see a two floor Virgin Megastore.  Those are very cool and not to mention a magnet when it comes to visitors.  This would go nicely with the 'House of Blues' and 'ESPN Zone' they mentioned awhile back for the area.

I'm not about to read 8 pages on here but when is the other side of Calhoun going to be fixed, and what's going there? I know I should know this since I live nearby lol.

David,

 

The "other side of the street" is called McMillan Park.  It was talked about in just a couple of posts before.  The last information that I had heard on it is that they will begin construction this coming winter, however, they had previously stated that construction would begin this summer.  So dont be shocked if you happen to see prep work being done on the site.  For more information on the corresponding project just look down a couple of posts and look at the links to GBBN and CHCURC.

Calhoun St. Marketplace is starting to feel a little more lively with these new places opening up.  There's even a bum posted up asking for change.  Boloco is delicious, a refreshing addition to Clifton's burrito-joint lineup.

^This is very true....I can only imagine the amount of activity (day and night) that this area will have once McMillian Park is complete.  This will give it a neighborhood feel, rather than just having students...business professionals and families will be buying condos and have a stake in the community.  This will be combined with, most likely, some clothing retailers and other random shops besides eateries.  Not to mention a community garden area and park, with pedestrian only streets, and density....ahh what a project!

 

completion '08

not to bring negativity, but if they're so concerned with a proper retail mix, then why are 2 of the 3 places they mention both burrito joints?

They are not both simple "burrito joints".  Boloco is a burrito place without a doubt, but it is different than Chipotle (Burger King's, McDonalds, and Wendy's all seem to coexist).  Salsarita's is an actual restaurant.  They offer mexican cuisine not just burritos, they are offered but their menu is not limited to that.  Check out the links (posted earlier) to the eatery's websites, this will give you a better idea for what they offer.

 

Just for another example:  Burger King and Max and Erma's both serve burgers....however the two are completely different!

I hate to simply throw out a question like this, but has anyone heard about what is going on across the street(McMillian Park et al)?  I know it is supposed to be developed into condos and retail, but it seems like the area from where Inn the Wood and UDF used to be to the Shell station has been stagnant.

^ Perfectly valid question.  I have been wondering the same thing.  If anything you would think they would at least clear away the blighted fast food joints.

 

"There is a lack of New York-type businesses in the area," he said. "We offer an international flare different from Chipotle."

 

 

I gag everytime I hear things like this. I think local businesses and retail mixes work best when they completely embrace the city/neighborhood they are in, or try to create something unique.

What the hell? LOL. Clifton is probably world class when it comes to restaurants with diversity. Indian, Chinese, Mediterranian, Tai, Italian, it's all there. Not to mention we have Skyline Chili--in a category by itself, which is something I'm pretty sure NYC doesn't have. Contributing to the restaurant scene is great but there's no need to act like the area is in dyer need of international restaurants

^If anything, I think the slow progress on this project shows that despite the pretty graphs and high talk none of this was market driven and that the project is in a state of disarray.  After all, if the market had been strong enough for this, some private developer would have come along, bought up a few pieces of land, torn down a half dozen buildings, and built a large apartment building or two. 

 

Say what you want about how the area looked before, but those fast food joints had steady business and there really weren't any vacant storefronts.   When most new suburban strip malls open, they are nearly fully occupied immediately.  You usually don't see them built speculatively, which is basically what this whole project is.  It could easily be years before these new apartment buildings are built if, as I suspect, few have committed to buying one of those $300K condos.  The problem here is you have all these idealists at UC (people in charge and self-congratulatory DAPP students alike) who have a build it and they'll come attitude but the market very well might not be there.  

^Amen Brother

jmeck,

 

your negativity surrounding this project is astounding.  You of all people seem more educated than many of the uninformed statements you make reguarding this project. 

 

First of all, it is wrong to compare Calhoun St. Marketplace to a suburban development.  It is easy to fill nearly any development when you will let anyone willing to pay into the space.  However here CHCRUC is working closely with the Univeristy Architect's Office and business leaders from Short Vine and Ludlow.  This is being done to ensure the lively hood of each business district.

 

Secondly, the delay of McMillan Park was due to financing issues.  Not a matter of market demands!  The university has extended a loan to CHCRUC to help get the project going.  Ground breaking is scheduled for this fall/winter, with a completion date in '08 sometime.

 

As for demand currently existing for this kind of development...you're right.  Just think of it this way...no business professional, in their right mind, would have thought about living in Clifton (or even Uptown) with the exception of the gaslight about 3-5 years ago.  You can create demand though...the university has been very successful at this:

 

Completed Projects:

University Park Apartments (Calhoun)-95% occupied

On Campus Housing - waiting list

Stratford Heights - 90+% occupied

 

New Projects:

Stetson Square

McMillian Park

McMillian Manor

Charlton Place

 

Lets not get into this again jmeck...and please quit bringing negativity to new investments to the inner-city.  I sometimes wonder what your motivations are?

I don't think he's being negative. You can only have so many successful restaurants per capita before the weaker links naturally fail. If there's a big increase in population for the area then it should work out fine though.

>First of all, it is wrong to compare Calhoun St. Marketplace to a suburban development.  It is easy to fill nearly any development when you will let anyone willing to pay into the space. 

 

I wasn't comparing them directly, what I was saying is that new developments out in new suburbs don't stay empty long because developers build in response to market studies (there are exceptions, but they are rare).  I'm sure there was some sort of market study done for this, but I frankly don't believe anything that comes out of the official mouths of universities.  I don't believe their stated motivations, regarding anything, ever.  That goes for everywhere, not just UC.  I am not a professional heckler, but it doesn't take much to make a provost or other administrator buckle at one of their press conferences or presentations.  The problem is that few have the guts to do it because few students and faculty are willing to risk their college experience or job and so the back scratching carries on.  And just because UC has a highly ranked architecture and planning department doesn't mean that input from their faculty in the planning stage or supportive quotes in published news reports ensures the success of a project. 

 

 

>However here CHCRUC is working closely with the Univeristy Architect's Office and business leaders from Short Vine and Ludlow.  This is being done to ensure the lively hood of each business district.

 

You can't program and control livelihood.  If that were the case, you could simply hire consultants and 2 years later you'd have a lively area.  When and if this area picks up, it will be due in part to chance, as is the case everywhere.     

 

 

>Secondly, the delay of McMillan Park was due to financing issues.  Not a matter of market demands!  The university has extended a loan to CHCRUC to help get the project going.  Ground breaking is scheduled for this fall/winter, with a completion date in '08 sometime.

 

^Again, my point is that if there was more obvious market demand for this, obtaining loans would be easier.  If there was more private investment, there would be less need for loans. 

 

>Lets not get into this again jmeck...and please quit bringing negativity to new investments to the inner-city.  I sometimes wonder what your motivations are?

 

Well UC has spent more money in the past ten years redeveloping its campus and surroundings than virtually any other in the country (world?) and in my and I believe the majority of the public's opinion doesn't have much to show for it.   

 

Completed Projects:

University Park Apartments (Calhoun)-95% occupied

On Campus Housing - waiting list

Stratford Heights - 90+% occupied

 

 

 

While on Campus housing is doing great business, they can not say they are waitlisted yet.  It is expected that they will use temporary housing and be waitlisted by the time Fall Quarter rolls around.

 

 

^They do have a waiting list.....local students that commute get last priority.  Many of these students are looking to live in and around campus...and UC is having to turn them down due to an extremely high demand for on-campus housing.

 

And jmeck,

 

Everytime I bring someone to or around campus they are always stunned by how much the area has improved.  Alums who had formerly criticised the costs of the projects now look at finished products with shear amazment.  If you dont believe that the area around UC has changed for the better and help to stem the negativity surrounding the City of Cincinnati...then you are living in a cave!