Not to mention it looks like Cleveland itself didn't get anyone. THis is city needs immigration the most out of the whole region and it continues to be left behind. The city is just completely bypassed by the suburbs. 

32 minutes ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

Not to mention it looks like Cleveland itself didn't get anyone. THis is city needs immigration the most out of the whole region and it continues to be left behind. The city is just completely bypassed by the suburbs. 

 

Most of the Ukrainian communities locally are suburban these days, especially the southwest burbs.   The original neighborhood was in Tremont, but Parma is the center now.

It's pretty complicated. There are far too many locals in the city who faux feel like immigrants threaten to displace them in some way and instead clamor for leadership to, as Frank Jackson said, "take care of their own" first. So it isn't like the city and its "leaders" are making good faith efforts for true population growth.

 

In addition I can't imagine there are that many Ukranians left in neighborhoods like Slavic Village or Tremont, so that global community from earlier generations just doesn't exist. 

 

As for the suburbs, the east side ex-Soviets are by and large full-on MAGA. It sucks, it's sad, it's very ironic, but like Frank said, it is what it is. So you're not seeing a lot of welcoming arms from our Russian and Belarussian neigbors in Mayfield Heights, Orange, some of the other Heights. 

27 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

Most of the Ukrainian communities locally are suburban these days, especially the southwest burbs.   The original neighborhood was in Tremont, but Parma is the center now.

There's a large Ukrainian community in the eastern burbs too. 

My Ukrainian wife works for USCRI and his handling the cases of Ukrainian families here. USCRI is directing nearly all incoming applicants to its Cleveland office. Unfortunately they are not directing all families to locate here. That depends more so on where the sponsors are. But the Cleveland office is handling almost all of USCRI's Ukrainian refugee clients.

 

As for where they are coming into Cleveland, it is funny to hear my wife talk about the Russian-Ukrainian Facebook page for Cleveland. There are often some very intense debates on where people should locate in Greater Cleveland. It's usually a debate between East Side vs West side. So they are quickly picking up on at least one of Cleveland’s cultural components... 😁

On 12/31/2022 at 9:18 AM, E Rocc said:

 

Does Columbus include graduate students and professors at Ohio State?   I would assume yes.

 

Yes. 

56 minutes ago, KJP said:

My Ukrainian wife works for USCRI and his handling the cases of Ukrainian families here. USCRI is directing nearly all incoming applicants to its Cleveland office. Unfortunately they are not directing all families to locate here. That depends more so on where the sponsors are. But the Cleveland office is handling almost all of USCRI's Ukrainian refugee clients.

 

As for where they are coming into Cleveland, it is funny to hear my wife talk about the Russian-Ukrainian Facebook page for Cleveland. There are often some very intense debates on where people should locate in Greater Cleveland. It's usually a debate between East Side vs West side. So they are quickly picking up on at least one of Cleveland’s cultural components... 😁

You would know more than I would, but I was assuming that which part of town they are being directed toward leans on religious lines ... Ukrainian Jews likely being steered toward the eastern burbs where the bulk of the Jewish community is, and the Eastern Orthodox Ukrainians being steered toward Parma/Parma Heights and the SW burbs where the bulk of the existing Ukrainian community has been established. FWIW, I have a nephew in Parma City Schools and he said all three of the high schools have each seen a handful of new students from Ukraine since the start of the year.

 

As for the city of Cleveland not getting any of the refugees so far isn't that big of an issue, IMO. The inner burbs also have a plenty of vacant housing themselves. I'm guessing the 3,000 or so who have already have been resettled – and those who will follow – have/will be going somewhere in Cuyahoga County. This region is still too caught up on municipal boundaries when my take is that even though they operate as their own fiefdoms, as long as the core 100-200 square miles around downtown are gaining residents, it's still healthy for the city/county/region in the long run. 

 

On another note, has anybody seen/read any updates on whether the area is still getting Afghan refugees? Last I saw the number was around 1,000, with the goal of it being 10,000. I think a goal for 10,000 Ukrainian refugees should also be attainable. The region also still seems to be a destination for Puerto Ricans leaving the island, though it seems like the big flux after Rita has leveled off. But I remember looking at some domestic migration data within the last year and from what I recall, metro Cleveland (though Lorain probably accounts for a large chunk there) was averaging something like a +1,000 per year inflow vs. those who were leaving to go back to the island.

 

I think most people on here would love for Cleveland to suddenly turn into Atlanta/Houston/DFW, etc., and start picking up 10,000-plus immigrants a year, but that will take time. And if the region has added roughly 5,000-6,000 over the past two years (between Afghan, Ukrainians and a still steady flow of Puerto Ricans), that is a good start and help further the region's image in terms of future immigrants.

Based on the latest Census estimates:

 

"In the newly released census data for 2021-22, both natural increase and immigration rose, but due to increases in legal immigration, that component added over 1 million people to the national population, compared to 245,000 for natural increase. Thus, the bulk of last year’s increase in population growth (about 86%) was due to a rise in immigration." (from Brookings)

 

I don't know if city-level info is released but there are numbers at the state level.

 

Net International Migration - OHIO

2019-2020:   13303

2020-2021:  9281

2021-2022:  24112.  (#13/51 in the US for biggest net gain--#1 is CA)

 

Natural Increase (Births minus Deaths) - OHIO

2019-2020:   6,318

2020-2021:   -18,613

2021-2022:    -19,543 (#49/51 in the US---#1 is TX)

 

Net Domestic Migration - OHIO

2019-2020:   -23146

2020-2021:   -27630

2021-2022:    -9165 (#38/51 in the US---#1 is FL)

 

So even with a giant boost in net intl migration (+24k), Ohio STILL lost over 4,000 people.  Ohio's policies are killing it.  

 

Edited January 6, 20232 yr by ProspectAve

I do not think those numbers from the census suggest that its policies are "killing it." The domestic migration numbers are some of the best for a state this size and in the midwest (nobody is leaving Florida to retire here, the converse is certainly true). Other states considered economically robust with large preeminent cities MA, MD, NY, PA, IL etc all lost much higher amounts of domestic migration. The total 180 degree change in natural increase is hurting Ohio as it had been middle of the pack and all of sudden is experiencing extremely high death rates relative to other states. This on the heels of the Plain Dealer stating a rebound in births this past year, so deaths here are the head scratcher. I hope the estimates for natural increase are wildly off and this will bring a positive rebound in population increase. Nonetheless, we are entering a prolonged period of population stagnation for most of the nation unless concerted efforts to increase international migration across the board are made. Start by resettling all those going to Texas to other states.

21 minutes ago, bwheats said:

I do not think those numbers from the census suggest that its policies are "killing it." The domestic migration numbers are some of the best for a state this size and in the midwest (nobody is leaving Florida to retire here, the converse is certainly true). Other states considered economically robust with large preeminent cities MA, MD, NY, PA, IL etc all lost much higher amounts of domestic migration. The total 180 degree change in natural increase is hurting Ohio as it had been middle of the pack and all of sudden is experiencing extremely high death rates relative to other states. This on the heels of the Plain Dealer stating a rebound in births this past year, so deaths here are the head scratcher. I hope the estimates for natural increase are wildly off and this will bring a positive rebound in population increase. Nonetheless, we are entering a prolonged period of population stagnation for most of the nation unless concerted efforts to increase international migration across the board are made. Start by resettling all those going to Texas to other states.

 

Alabama and all its southern policies and behaviors is way ahead of Ohio and its a much smaller base to begin with compared to Ohio. Oklahoma is also beating us. Same comment. Alabama and Oklahoma are #9 and 10! Ohio is #38. " Other states considered economically robust with large preeminent cities MA, MD, NY, PA, IL, etc" are only a handful of states. 37 states are ahead of us, not just MA, MD, NY, "etc."  Here's the full list for transparency and discussion:

 

 

 

On 1/4/2023 at 7:21 AM, ProspectAve said:

 

Only 3,000?  While we need the people, its disappointingly low. If the US got 221,000 since the start of the war and with Cleveland's already strong Ukrainian presence, we should have received a good number of people far greater than 3,000. Instead, 3,000 is only around 1.3% of 221,000 which is about what Cleveland is to the US. So we got an exactly equal share instead of any benefit of already having a larger than average Ukrainian population.

 

I’m assuming by “Northeast Ohio” they essentially mean Cleveland metro. Since I doubt a lot of refugees have settled in, say, Ashtabula and Portage Counties. If most of the 3,000 are in Cuyahoga County (highly probable) then we’re getting a very outsized influx since Cuyahoga is ~0.3% of the U.S. pop.

 

How does one become a sponsor?

hmm, looks someone has to put a finger in the out-migration dike. that would start at the top with dewine, if he even cares. i dk if he and his ilk and their invasive right winger policies are chasing people away, or if its just a natural feature of an aging population retiring to arizona or whatever? maybe that could be looked at more closely to see what can be addressed? it could be it doesnt matter and its more fruitful to focus on chasing immigration. 

9 hours ago, LlamaLawyer said:

I’m assuming by “Northeast Ohio” they essentially mean Cleveland metro. Since I doubt a lot of refugees have settled in, say, Ashtabula and Portage Counties. If most of the 3,000 are in Cuyahoga County (highly probable) then we’re getting a very outsized influx since Cuyahoga is ~0.3% of the U.S. pop.

 

How does one become a sponsor?

 

The 1% figure I cited is for "Greater Cleveland"--so the seven counties (Cuyahoga and the six outer ones).  

 

Yes! Be a sponsor. Here's the link:  https://welcome.us/connect

20 minutes ago, mrnyc said:

hmm, looks someone has to put a finger in the out-migration dike. that would start at the top with dewine, if he even cares. i dk if he and his ilk and their invasive right winger policies are chasing people away, or if its just a natural feature of an aging population retiring to arizona or whatever? maybe that could be looked at more closely to see what can be addressed? it could be it doesnt matter and its more fruitful to focus on chasing immigration. 

 

I agree---it warrants a deeper study. Its not only people moving to warm states as Idaho and Montana are high up on the list---but that may just be people being sick of the high prices in California so they move out to the big open lands in those nearby states. Indiana is pretty conservative as well--but not as bad as Ohio--and they gained population---but that may be from people leaving Chicago. It'd be particularly interesting to see what parts of Indiana gained people--and from where. Oklahoma still baffles me--whose moving there and why? 780,000 people left the top three states--CA, NY, and IL--those people have gone somewhere. The top three winning states--TX, FL, and NC--account for only 650,000 while, of course, taking people from Ohio, Illinois, and other places.

 

We need to focus on both--the net migration and immigration. Immigration alone won't solve the problem as even with the giant gain in immigration, Ohio still lost people, and we had a higher-than normal year.

 

For natural Increase (Births minus Deaths), we were 3rd last in the whole country.  THAT is something we should look at as well.  Our natural increase in 2021-22 was -19,543!  For natural increase:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 6, 20232 yr by ProspectAve

^Note that all six states above had the exact same trajectory in the first three years--steady decline (probably covid related). But then in 2021-2022 ALL five states EXCEPT Ohio reversed course and 2021-22 was better than the previous year. Ohio maintained its downward trajectory.

 

13 hours ago, ProspectAve said:

So even with a giant boost in net intl migration (+24k), Ohio STILL lost over 4,000 people.  Ohio's policies are killing it.  

NE Ohio continues to lose, but I'm not sure about the rest of the state. Columbus is growing and I believe Cincy is as well, although just slightly.  I don't think it's Ohio's policies.  Other factors like weather and taxes might be the reason.

The Lake County News Herald is doing a series on NE Ohio immigrants and food--¡Ay, caramba!🌮

 

 

Louisiana lost 40k+ can account for influx of residents to Alabama I would imagine. Splitting hairs saying Indiana politics are any better and thus more attractive for migration. Especially since Indiana has one major viable city to attract residents.

On 1/5/2023 at 1:04 PM, Rando Sinclair said:

You would know more than I would, but I was assuming that which part of town they are being directed toward leans on religious lines ... Ukrainian Jews likely being steered toward the eastern burbs where the bulk of the Jewish community is, and the Eastern Orthodox Ukrainians being steered toward Parma/Parma Heights and the SW burbs where the bulk of the existing Ukrainian community has been established. FWIW, I have a nephew in Parma City Schools and he said all three of the high schools have each seen a handful of new students from Ukraine since the start of the year.

 

Ukrainian refugees usually go where their relatives or friends live. It appears more so that a Jewish refugee is coming to live with a Jewish family member or friend. Or a Catholic/Orthodox refugee is going to live with a Catholic/Orthodox family/friend.

 

6 hours ago, ProspectAve said:

 

The 1% figure I cited is for "Greater Cleveland"--so the seven counties (Cuyahoga and the six outer ones).  

 

Yes! Be a sponsor. Here's the link:  https://welcome.us/connect

 

@LlamaLawyer You can also contact USCRI here in Cleveland...

 

https://refugees.org/uscri-cleveland/

 

They have more refugees willing to come than sponsors available to vouch for them. Basically as a sponsor you're signing a document that the refugee is not a terrorist, criminal or other threat. Surprisingly, few people need housing. At worst they need housing for a short period of time. Many Ukrainians already have money when they come here but they don't have a credit rating here so they cannot easily get an apartment or other housing until they get a work permit. Refugees usually get a work permit in about 6 months but many do some work under-the-table in the meantime. USCRI and the government offer rental assistance and food stamps, access to English classes through Tri-C which gives them access to free RTA passes, donated clothing and furniture, plus other assistance. 

On 1/5/2023 at 9:39 PM, ProspectAve said:

 

Alabama and all its southern policies and behaviors is way ahead of Ohio and its a much smaller base to begin with compared to Ohio. Oklahoma is also beating us. Same comment. Alabama and Oklahoma are #9 and 10! Ohio is #38. " Other states considered economically robust with large preeminent cities MA, MD, NY, PA, IL, etc" are only a handful of states. 37 states are ahead of us, not just MA, MD, NY, "etc."  Here's the full list for transparency and discussion:

 

 

 

 

Damn, these numbers are interesting, especially pro-rated to 2020 Census population.   But it's nowhere close to on topic.   :)

On 1/6/2023 at 9:41 AM, LibertyBlvd said:

NE Ohio continues to lose, but I'm not sure about the rest of the state. Columbus is growing and I believe Cincy is as well, although just slightly.  I don't think it's Ohio's policies.  Other factors like weather and taxes might be the reason.

 

Is it really that much warmer in Columbus than Cleveland? Cinci maybe, I don't know. But state taxes are uniform across the state, so you must be referring to local taxes. How is the taxing different in Columbus and Cincinnati. I have no idea, but am interested to learn.

26 minutes ago, ProspectAve said:

 

Is it really that much warmer in Columbus than Cleveland? Cinci maybe, I don't know. But state taxes are uniform across the state, so you must be referring to local taxes. How is the taxing different in Columbus and Cincinnati. I have no idea, but am interested to learn.

 

This isn't really on topic here.  There's a Cleveland taxation thread.  Or if you want to start one for the state as a whole, go ahead.

 

 

On 1/6/2023 at 2:53 PM, KJP said:

 

Ukrainian refugees usually go where their relatives or friends live. It appears more so that a Jewish refugee is coming to live with a Jewish family member or friend. Or a Catholic/Orthodox refugee is going to live with a Catholic/Orthodox family/friend.

 

 

@LlamaLawyer You can also contact USCRI here in Cleveland...

 

https://refugees.org/uscri-cleveland/

 

They have more refugees willing to come than sponsors available to vouch for them. Basically as a sponsor you're signing a document that the refugee is not a terrorist, criminal or other threat. Surprisingly, few people need housing. At worst they need housing for a short period of time. Many Ukrainians already have money when they come here but they don't have a credit rating here so they cannot easily get an apartment or other housing until they get a work permit. Refugees usually get a work permit in about 6 months but many do some work under-the-table in the meantime. USCRI and the government offer rental assistance and food stamps, access to English classes through Tri-C which gives them access to free RTA passes, donated clothing and furniture, plus other assistance. 

 

While at Mass today, the priest was talking about how the Diocese of Cleveland has committed to sponsoring 20 Ukrainian families to NEO.

 

Didn't sound like any have been brought over yet in this commitment, but the parish I belong to has committed to sponsoring 1 of these 20 families.  (furniture, housing for 2 years, assimilation help, etc)...through the church forming a "Welcome Circle" https://stchrisparish.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Welcome-Circle-Flyer.pdf

On 1/4/2023 at 2:55 PM, TBideon said:

It's pretty complicated. There are far too many locals in the city who faux feel like immigrants threaten to displace them in some way and instead clamor for leadership to, as Frank Jackson said, "take care of their own" first. So it isn't like the city and its "leaders" are making good faith efforts for true population growth.

 

In addition I can't imagine there are that many Ukranians left in neighborhoods like Slavic Village or Tremont, so that global community from earlier generations just doesn't exist. 

 

As for the suburbs, the east side ex-Soviets are by and large full-on MAGA. It sucks, it's sad, it's very ironic, but like Frank said, it is what it is. So you're not seeing a lot of welcoming arms from our Russian and Belarussian neigbors in Mayfield Heights, Orange, some of the other Heights. 

 

"MAGA" is by no means uniformly pro-Russia.  But the erstwhile Captive Nations people are largely pro-Ukraine in this conflict, particularly the Balts and Poles.

On 1/8/2023 at 4:05 PM, MuRrAy HiLL said:

 

While at Mass today, the priest was talking about how the Diocese of Cleveland has committed to sponsoring 20 Ukrainian families to NEO.

 

Didn't sound like any have been brought over yet in this commitment, but the parish I belong to has committed to sponsoring 1 of these 20 families.  (furniture, housing for 2 years, assimilation help, etc)...through the church forming a "Welcome Circle" https://stchrisparish.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Welcome-Circle-Flyer.pdf

Kinda feel like I broke this story..! : )

 

20 Northeast Ohio Catholic parishes set to welcome Ukrainian refugee families

Published: Jan. 17, 2023, 2:32 p.m.

 

By Brenda Cain, cleveland.com

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio – As Russia’s war on Ukraine nears its one-year anniversary, the United Nations says that more than 12 million Ukrainian families have fled their homes seeking refuge across the globe. Twenty of those families will soon call Cleveland home, as part of an outreach program spearheaded by the Catholic Charities - Diocese of Cleveland.

 

According to Heath Rosenberger, the director of migration and refugee services for the agency, the first family -- a mother, father and three young children -- arrived in Cleveland Sunday, welcomed by St. Joseph’s Parish in Strongsville.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2023/01/20-northeast-ohio-catholic-parishes-set-to-welcome-ukrainian-refugee-families.html

Edited January 18, 20232 yr by MuRrAy HiLL

On 1/6/2023 at 8:47 AM, ProspectAve said:

 

I agree---it warrants a deeper study. Its not only people moving to warm states as Idaho and Montana are high up on the list---but that may just be people being sick of the high prices in California so they move out to the big open lands in those nearby states. Indiana is pretty conservative as well--but not as bad as Ohio--and they gained population---but that may be from people leaving Chicago. It'd be particularly interesting to see what parts of Indiana gained people--and from where. Oklahoma still baffles me--whose moving there and why? 780,000 people left the top three states--CA, NY, and IL--those people have gone somewhere. The top three winning states--TX, FL, and NC--account for only 650,000 while, of course, taking people from Ohio, Illinois, and other places.

 

We need to focus on both--the net migration and immigration. Immigration alone won't solve the problem as even with the giant gain in immigration, Ohio still lost people, and we had a higher-than normal year.

 

For natural Increase (Births minus Deaths), we were 3rd last in the whole country.  THAT is something we should look at as well.  Our natural increase in 2021-22 was -19,543!  For natural increase:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When we lose young people we also lose the future babies they'll have. 

this doesnt have neighborhoods, but it does have foreign born in greater cleveland ranked by nationality from fiftith (austria/530) to first (india/12,082):

 

Biggest sources of immigrants to Cleveland

 

WRITTEN BY: Stacker
April 21, 2022

 

more:

https://stacker.com/ohio/cleveland/biggest-sources-immigrants-cleveland

New federal program in Cleveland aims to help more refugees settle in the city

By: Nadeen Abusada

Posted at 6:01 PM, Jan 26, 2023 

and last updated 6:13 PM, Jan 26, 2023

 

CLEVELAND — This month, the U.S. Department of State announced a new program to help sponsor refugees as they come into the nation. Since Cleveland’s a large hub for refugees, many local organizations are happy for more resources and the relief.

 

Jaimie Wise and her husband are military veterans and in retirement they have found a new way to serve. They were moved when they saw the evacuation of Afghanistan and decided to volunteer with the U.S. Committee for Refugees and Immigrants in Cleveland. 

Along with their church and USCRI, the couple has sponsored more than a dozen refugees.

 

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/new-federal-program-in-cleveland-aims-to-help-more-refugees-settle-in-the-city

The local Afghan population has grown from 30 to 300 families. Apparently they like Clark-Fulton and want to convert a church at 2806 Daisy Avenue to a community center.  Money is the obstacle.

 

 

https://www.axios.com/newsletters/axios-cleveland-d8fd485b-26e9-4219-b09f-5af594e428ef.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter_axioslocal_cleveland&stream=top

Anyone know of any organizations that are supporting and that we could donate to?

24 minutes ago, Clefan14 said:

Anyone know of any organizations that are supporting and that we could donate to?

I would absolutely love to donate towards something like this. The more diversity the city and the region has and can grow from, the better.

@Clefan14 @Oldmanladyluck

There's a link in the article to a GoFundMe campaign:

https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-us-set-up-a-community-center-for-afghans

 

Americans are stupid

 

 

GOP: we support LEGAL immigration

Also GOP: we want decreased legal immigration to the USA

 

13 minutes ago, freefourur said:

GOP: we support LEGAL immigration

Also GOP: we want decreased legal immigration to the USA

 

 

It's almost as if the legality was never the issue.  Maybe there's something else about immigration that upsets Republicans.  But what could it be?  What could it be? 🤔

26 minutes ago, freefourur said:

GOP: we support LEGAL immigration

Also GOP: we want decreased legal immigration to the USA

 

They definitely don't want to fix ILLEGAL immigration.   Both parties could have done so many times over.  All we need is some sort of migrant farm worker visa so we can get the entrants fingerprinted and processed, but it's better for big business to have them running across the Rio Grande at night and hiding in a shadow economy.  

49 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

They definitely don't want to fix ILLEGAL immigration.   Both parties could have done so many times over.  All we need is some sort of migrant farm worker visa so we can get the entrants fingerprinted and processed, but it's better for big business to have them running across the Rio Grande at night and hiding in a shadow economy.  

 

I don't actually think this last bit is true. The US Chamber of Commerce and many state and local Chambers of Commerce support increased legal immigration and streamlining of the process. It's one place where business is definitely at odds with the Republican party.

 

Cleveland among top U.S. metros for Ukrainian refugees

 

https://www.axios.com/local/cleveland/2023/02/27/cleveland-ukrainian-refugees

^ the puzzling thing is how those other cities are ahead of cle on this one.

 

jobs and even just the perception of jobs trumps existing community i guess.

 

also, love this:

 

Cimperman says, inspiring locals to volunteer on behalf of other refugee communities:

 

"If Cleveland wants to be great again," he says, "we have to be immigrant-oriented again."

 

On 2/9/2023 at 11:30 AM, Dougal said:

The local Afghan population has grown from 30 to 300 families. Apparently they like Clark-Fulton and want to convert a church at 2806 Daisy Avenue to a community center.  Money is the obstacle.

 

 

https://www.axios.com/newsletters/axios-cleveland-d8fd485b-26e9-4219-b09f-5af594e428ef.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter_axioslocal_cleveland&stream=top

 

 

that is an awesome way to reuse the sturdy old church building.

 

i dk if that building is big enough to do this but it reminds me of the big hindu temple in queens which has a popular basement restaurant (they call it a canteen) that draws all stripes of curious and hungry crowds. or maybe there is a space nearby for an afghan restaurant version? afghani food is also tasty and that would draw them in and encourage mixing with the locals. if not i am sure the center would do pot lucks at least as its a way for afghanis to connect and for non-afghans to come and eat well and meet them.

35 minutes ago, mrnyc said:

^ the puzzling thing is how those other cities are ahead of cle on this one.

 

jobs and even just the perception of jobs trumps existing community i guess.

 

also, love this:

 

Cimperman says, inspiring locals to volunteer on behalf of other refugee communities:

 

"If Cleveland wants to be great again," he says, "we have to be immigrant-oriented again."

 

 

Cimperman is right about the secondary migration data. My wife says that many Ukrainians come to cities like New York, Chicago, Miami or Los Angeles first because those are the only cities in America they know. But when they arrive and begin learning more about America, including how expensive those other cities are and how inexpensive Cleveland/Parma is and that there is a large Ukrainian presence here already, many Ukrainian refugees make a second move. 

11 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

Cimperman is right about the secondary migration data. My wife says that many Ukrainians come to cities like New York, Chicago, Miami or Los Angeles first because those are the only cities in America they know. But when they arrive and begin learning more about America, including how expensive those other cities are and how inexpensive Cleveland/Parma is and that there is a large Ukrainian presence here already, many Ukrainian refugees make a second move. 

 

We'll know we're handling immigration right when other nations complain that we are skimming off their best people.  

 

This requires control of the process, though.   What we're seeing now is a free for all, or worse.

10 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

We'll know we're handling immigration right when other nations complain that we are skimming off their best people.  

 

This requires control of the process, though.   What we're seeing now is a free for all, or worse.

My peasant ancestors were part of a free for all, I guess, 

2 hours ago, freefourur said:

My peasant ancestors were part of a free for all, I guess, 

Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

 

I get the mindset of wanting the best but I also want Cleveland to be a place where immigrants can have a chance at a better life.

6 minutes ago, cle_guy90 said:

Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

 

I get the mindset of wanting the best but I also want Cleveland to be a place where immigrants can have a chance at a better life.

 

It's not logical to assume that immigration would be predominantly anything other than people looking for a better life. 

2 hours ago, freefourur said:

My peasant ancestors were part of a free for all, I guess, 

 

Not so much.    My great grandparents were Polish peasants, and they had criteria to meet.   Plus there was the self selection of the difficulty of the trip.   

8 minutes ago, cle_guy90 said:

Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

 

I get the mindset of wanting the best but I also want Cleveland to be a place where immigrants can have a chance at a better life.

 

I want those who are going to adopt the values we have in this nation and work to better both themselves and the nation.   Who intend to assimilate at least to the degree that the immigrants of a century ago did.    Who intend to thrive, not be taken care of.

 

One of the ironies of immigration is those who come the furthest are more likely to meet these criteria.    That's why DJT's comments about bleep-hole nations were so dammed dumb.   The people with the gumption to emerge from places like that and meet our criteria are exactly who we want.

3 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

I want those who are going to adopt the values we have in this nation and work to better both themselves and the nation.   Who intend to assimilate at least to the degree that the immigrants of a century ago did.    Who intend to thrive, not be taken care of.

 

One of the ironies of immigration is those who come the furthest are more likely to meet these criteria.    That's why DJT's comments about bleep-hole nations were so dammed dumb.   The people with the gumption to emerge from places like that and meet our criteria are exactly who we want.

 

It seems to me that we can't agree on what our values as a nation are, let alone determine how to screen out those who don't share them.  I don't think there's any reason to assume that any of the immigrants coming here aren't coming here to better their lives and put in the effort to do so.  The fact that they're making the journey is the best evidence of their conviction and courage to do so that we can hope for.

1 hour ago, E Rocc said:

 

Not so much.    My great grandparents were Polish peasants, and they had criteria to meet.   Plus there was the self selection of the difficulty of the trip.   

At the peak of European immigration, the criteria was to have a pulse. We had open borders for Europeans back then. Our ancestors weren't special.