March 7, 20196 yr 9 hours ago, KJP said: The Ohio House of Representatives' Finance Committee has passed the gas tax bill with $100 million per year in flex funds to transit! There are also some additional flexible provisions to this bill which shall become clearer in the coming days. We have a little bit farther to go, but suffice it to say this is a great step foward in improving public transportation in Ohio! A great comparison/summary document comparing as introduced (executive version) and In House Finance (as voted on presumably) is here: https://associationdatabase.com/aws/ACEC/asset_manager/get_file/305553?ver=0 Summary of major changes: Reduced gas tax increase from 18 cents to 10.7 cents per gallon beginning October 1st to be phased in over 3 years (5 cents, 3 cents, 2.7 cents by 2021) Increase tax on diesel fuel by 20 cents to 48 cents per gallon beginning October 1st to be phased in over 3 years (10 cents, 6 cents, 4 cents by 2021) There is no indexing but the creation of a study committee to report ODOT’s needs by October Increased funding for public transit to $70 million per year in flex funding $200 registration fee on electric vehicles, $100 on hybrid vehicles Allow for $5 permissive county license tag fee (max $30) Repeal the front license plate requirement Edited March 7, 20196 yr by OldBearcat Formerly "Mr Sparkle"
March 7, 20196 yr Ugh, no indexing!? So, they're punting the problem once again? "Someone is sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago." - Warren Buffett
March 7, 20196 yr It seems so stupid not to index. They know it is necessary and it saves them from the political fallout of doing this again in a few years.
March 7, 20196 yr The fee on electrics and hybrids is odd. It's higher than the average gas tax amount for regulars combustion cars.
March 7, 20196 yr 2 minutes ago, Mendo said: The fee on electrics and hybrids is odd. It's higher than the average gas tax amount for regulars combustion cars. If a minor Republican vendetta against electric vehicles is what helps get transit money passed in this legislature, it is a worthy sacrifice. There's no reason other than they want to protect fossil fuel interests, or at least appear to protect them.
March 7, 20196 yr Its to recover gas tax revenue lost to plug-in hybrids or all EV's. Formerly "Mr Sparkle"
March 7, 20196 yr I don’t see this being a big deal at all for electric and hybrid owners. I’m pretty good with this iteration of the bill. I think they should ramp up a little sooner than October. Maybe a .03-.05 bump August 1 would be better but maybe they have to consider when this might become law or other considerations. Its not like the hybrid owner is going to revolt and go back to gas guzzlers because of a $100 hit when they get their tags. Obviously they did not spend as much on gas taxes because of their ability to drive electric especially the plug in hybrids which i assume they are mainly targeting. So with $70 million will we have moved past WV? I think the most damning visual was that map of states around Ohio per capita spending on transit. That had to ruffle many feathers in the state house to be behind even KY. Pathetic.
March 7, 20196 yr This illustrates why gas taxes are a bad way to fund highways (and remember, they almost exclusively go to highways, not local streets). The tax to pay for roads/streets/pavement should be different from the tax on gas. The former pays for pavement, the latter pays for the impacts of burning gas, whether environmental, militarily or whatever. Then you don't need special farm diesel, lawnmowers and generators don't pay for roads, and EVs don't get a free ride on the roads but aren't penalized either.
March 7, 20196 yr 1 minute ago, jjakucyk said: This illustrates why gas taxes are a bad way to fund highways (and remember, they almost exclusively go to highways, not local streets). The tax to pay for roads/streets/pavement should be different from the tax on gas. The former pays for pavement, the latter pays for the impacts of burning gas, whether environmental, militarily or whatever. Then you don't need special farm diesel, lawnmowers and generators don't pay for roads, and EVs don't get a free ride on the roads but aren't penalized either. Very interesting points. I fell like a good "road tax" would be to have odometers checked annually for registration and then pay a fee based on miles traveled.
March 7, 20196 yr Odometers are too easy to hack for that. And a lot more people would learn how to do it so that you couldn't trust mileage on any used car you buy.
March 7, 20196 yr Just now, GCrites80s said: Odometers are too easy to hack for that. And a lot more people would learn how to do it so that you couldn't trust mileage on any used car you buy. Good point. I wasn't aware how easy it was to hack it.
March 7, 20196 yr 3 minutes ago, freefourur said: Good point. I wasn't aware how easy it was to hack it. Haven't you seen Ferris Bueller? ? Edited March 7, 20196 yr by Robuu
March 7, 20196 yr It's 2019... we should be able to come up with a more secure method of tracking vehicle mileage. Because I agree. The tax we pay to fund our roads should absolutely be based on the miles that you travel in that vehicle (which the gas tax is a proxy for - but a bad one in the era of EV's) and also, I'll add, the weight of your vehicle. Heavier vehicles do nearly all the damage to our roads so they should be charged more. They should also increase enforcement of and penalties for overweight vehicles.
March 7, 20196 yr The thing is it's not just about weight and damage. Think about how much *space* is needed to accommodate commuters at rush hour or around malls and into and out of downtowns. Plus, while heavy trucks may do orders of magnitude more damage to roadways, it doesn't cost orders of magnitude more to construct or repair them. For the most part, road depth is for trucks, but road width is for cars. They both have costs.
March 7, 20196 yr People don't think about it this way, but when you are on foot you take up 2 square feet and weigh 175 pounds. When you are in a car, you take up 160 square feet and weigh 4000 pounds. I don't even know if people would have thought to make George Jetson's car fold up into a briefcase today.
March 7, 20196 yr With the electronics in vehicles now-a-days is it really that easy to manipulate the odometer? The gas tax isn’t sustainable even if it is indexed. A tax based on miles driven and class of vehicle has to be the way to go if you want it to be an actual “user fee.” There are pilot programs on the west coast (the other ODOT, Oregon) utilizing this method, and it sounds promising.
March 7, 20196 yr To a Millennial or Gen Z a digital odometer is much easier to change than a mechanical one. If you can change the target air/fuel ratio in the computer you can change the odometer.
March 7, 20196 yr 12 minutes ago, GCrites80s said: To a Millennial or Gen Z a digital odometer is much easier to change than a mechanical one. If you can change the target air/fuel ratio in the computer you can change the odometer. You can make it unhackable, something something blockchain
March 7, 20196 yr 14 minutes ago, GCrites80s said: To a Millennial or Gen Z a digital odometer is much easier to change than a mechanical one. If you can change the target air/fuel ratio in the computer you can change the odometer. You seem to be very knowledgeable in the area of odometer fraud. Just an observation not making any accusations....?
March 7, 20196 yr I do know how to burn my own chips for '86-'93 GM vehicles now. You'd be surprised how similar to an NES those computers are.
March 7, 20196 yr I don't understand.... how are mileage taxes are going to be enforced? Seems a bit to big brother'y to me.
March 7, 20196 yr In states that have yearly safety inspections (many states already do but not us) the mileage is taken then. Or during emissions testing.
March 7, 20196 yr Or when you update your registration. Oregon though has been trying out a plug-in similar to what the auto insurance companies have been using.
March 7, 20196 yr Self reporting your mileage at registration is definitely the way to go. Then, when you sell your vehicle, and the title is transferred, you list the odometer reading and get a tax bill.
March 7, 20196 yr Back to the downsizing of the gas tax increase, I'm actually happy about that, because it sounds like the money that won't be generated by the higher tax rate is mostly the money that would have gone into "new construction"- i.e. road widenings, , new lanes, new offramps, etc. See a list of recent projects that are representative of what won't happen at cleveland.com: https://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/2019/03/northeast-ohio-road-projects-that-wouldnt-happen-if-dewine-fails-to-get-his-gas-tax-hike-what-you-need-to-know.html
March 7, 20196 yr Ohio House passes transportation budget bill to increase gas taxes 10.7 cents a gal over 2 years House Bill 62, which passed 71 to 27, now heads to the Ohio Senate, where numerous changes could be made to the measure. The legislation must pass the Ohio General Assembly by March 31. https://www.cleveland.com/open/2019/03/ohio-house-passes-transportation-budget-bill-to-increase-gas-taxes-107-cents-a-gal-over-2-years.html "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 11, 20196 yr FYI... The proposed ODOT Budget is now getting hearings in the Ohio Senate Transportation Committee as part of the transportation budget. Watch the hearings LIVE, here: http://ohiochannel.org/live/ohio-senate-transportation-commerce-and-workforce-committee "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 11, 20196 yr 1 minute ago, KJP said: FYI... The proposed ODOT Budget is now getting hearings in the Ohio Senate Transportation Committee as part of the transportation budget. Watch the hearings LIVE, here: http://ohiochannel.org/live/ohio-senate-transportation-commerce-and-workforce-committee And the ODOT Director is complaining about the House-passed transit funds ?
March 11, 20196 yr On 3/7/2019 at 12:58 PM, X said: Back to the downsizing of the gas tax increase, I'm actually happy about that, because it sounds like the money that won't be generated by the higher tax rate is mostly the money that would have gone into "new construction"- i.e. road widenings, , new lanes, new offramps, etc. See a list of recent projects that are representative of what won't happen at cleveland.com: https://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/2019/03/northeast-ohio-road-projects-that-wouldnt-happen-if-dewine-fails-to-get-his-gas-tax-hike-what-you-need-to-know.html 1 Actually, the article says that those projects are "at risk" without an 18-cent gas tax increase. Given ODOT's preferences for road-building, I wouldn't count those projects out under an only-10-cent gas tax increase. Ironic that the conservative party wants to spend money to add to our maintenance expenses rather than take care of those maintenance expenses in the first place. Not much "conserving" of resources by the Republicans controlling Ohio's government.
March 11, 20196 yr On 3/7/2019 at 12:18 PM, GCrites80s said: Big lump sums will be a hardship on low-income people when their car blows up tho That's the big downside. If you're not paying gas tax throughout the year, and then you suddenly have to pay a $200 or $300 mileage tax in order to renew your registration, I think that's going to result in more scofflaws driving around with expired tags. A system where you paid more frequently would be ideal but it's going to make the Big Brother fearers angry.
March 11, 20196 yr Right, GPS takes care of the odometer and driving in other states or even potentially offroad (though I don't think either of those are really major concerns in aggregate). It is quite Big Brother-y though, which I do sympathize with. Simple odometer readings have the potential for fraud, but they can be policed to some extent. In states that have safety inspections, usually mechanic shops can issue the inspection certificates (yes, that's a form of corporate welfare but let's put that aside for the moment). So I wonder about requiring any mechanics shop, body shop, tow truck operator, lube shop, tire shop, etc., to report the mileage to a central database whenever they service a vehicle. That way there's a running tally over the year so that if an odometer is rolled back it can only be rolled back by a small amount before it starts to raise red flags. Even if that is a bit too invasive, I can see a situation where using a GPS tracker yields a discounted tax rate that can be paid monthly or quarterly, yearly payments at an inspection station are at the full if not a punitive rate to discourage it and pay back some of the fraud potential, and perhaps some mix of quarterly payments (either at an inspection station, or certified independent shop, or estimated with yearly verification) are somewhere in between. Basically you pay extra for better privacy, but going with more frequent payments/inspections still gets you a discount from the potentially fraud-rampant yearly odometer reading.
March 11, 20196 yr Why not just keep the gas tax for old fashioned combustion cars, and use a flat tax on electric vehicles?
March 11, 20196 yr On 3/7/2019 at 10:03 AM, jjakucyk said: This illustrates why gas taxes are a bad way to fund highways (and remember, they almost exclusively go to highways, not local streets). The tax to pay for roads/streets/pavement should be different from the tax on gas. The former pays for pavement, the latter pays for the impacts of burning gas, whether environmental, militarily or whatever. Then you don't need special farm diesel, lawnmowers and generators don't pay for roads, and EVs don't get a free ride on the roads but aren't penalized either.
March 12, 20196 yr "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 19, 20196 yr So far, so good. Fingers crossed...... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 20, 20196 yr The Ohio statehouse reporter for WVXU (Cinci) said that the senate is expected to reduce the transit budget even though it hasn't been done yet... Not looking good.
March 20, 20196 yr There may be an amendment submitted and accepted today that reduces the transit amount from $100 million to $40 million. If so, it will be up to a conference committee to resolve this and other differences. Edited March 20, 20196 yr by KJP "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 21, 20196 yr On 3/20/2019 at 10:36 AM, KJP said: There may be an amendment submitted and accepted today that reduces the transit amount from $100 million to $40 million. If so, it will be up to a conference committee to resolve this and other differences.
March 27, 20196 yr The latest reminder that many of our elected officials just aren't that bright...... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 27, 20196 yr What you should be doing during your lunch hour today or Thursday...contacting this lady: "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 4, 20196 yr On 3/27/2019 at 10:43 AM, KJP said: The latest reminder that many of our elected officials just aren't that bright...... Surely this "unique code" would only be used by people who have "prepaid" their gas tax, and would not end up in the hands of other people, who would use it to avoid paying any gas tax altogether.
April 4, 20196 yr also, who would do this? And you would have to retrofit every gas pump in the state to accept a discount.
April 4, 20196 yr 57 minutes ago, ryanlammi said: also, who would do this? And you would have to retrofit every gas pump in the state to accept a discount. Honest question: Where does the state collect the tax? Is it at the wholesale, or local retail level?
July 2, 20195 yr For those of us particularly angered by ODOT's unwillingness to make streets less hostile, please answer their survey and give thoughts on their plan to actually incorporate bike/ped improvements in future projects. I don't trust that this will amount to much, but at least they are aware that people want more options. https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/WalkBikeOhio
July 12, 20195 yr Quote Contact: Matt Bruning - (614) 466-6906 ODOT seeking feedback for first-ever pedestrian and bicycle plan Ohioans urged to fill out online survey COLUMBUS - Recent trends in safety, demographics, and demand have spurred the Ohio Department of Transportation to develop its first-ever policy plan for walking and biking. Stakeholder and public engagement will help ensure that policies and investments meet the needs of people walking and biking. The Walk.Bike.Ohio plan will guide Ohio's bike and pedestrian transportation policies and investments in infrastructure and programs. It is looking at current and potential programs and policies, not at specific projects. ODOT is engaging Ohioans through a series of stakeholder meetings and online surveys. These opportunities will help ODOT collect feedback on vision and goals of the plan as well as barriers and needs for walking and biking. It will also look at how new mobility and its associated technologies will impact how Ohioans walk and bike in the future. "We encourage Ohioans to use active transportation, so we want to make sure those modes of travel are as safe as possible," said ODOT Director Dr. Jack Marchbanks. "We hope to get feedback from Ohioans living in all parts of our great state to help us do that." Between 2009-2018, Ohio saw a 60 percent increase in pedestrian-related fatalities. Bicycle fatalities are up 22 percent over the same time frame. In 2018, 135 pedestrians and 22 bicyclists were killed in Ohio. Ohio has over 1,800 miles of off-road, shared use paths. Ohio's state parks offer more than 250 miles of bike trails. There are also 3,000 miles of proposed State and U.S. Bike Routes in Ohio. Work on the plan is expected to be complete by the end of 2020. The final report will include policy recommendations as well as an implementation plan as to how to achieve the recommendations. http://www.dot.state.oh.us/walkbike/Pages/default.aspx Meeting Link: http://www.dot.state.oh.us/WalkBike/Pages/StakeholderMeetings.aspx Edited July 12, 20195 yr by OldBearcat added links Formerly "Mr Sparkle"
October 7, 20195 yr Friends, we need you to attend these public meetings to speak up and raise rail & transit higher on the Ohio Department of Transportation's funding and development food chain. Please share your personal experiences of how Ohio's decision to have a largely drive-only transportation policy affects you, and how having more/better choices can improve your quality of life. ___________________ The Ohio Department of Transportation (ODOT) will be holding a series of public meetings to discuss the update to Ohio’s long range statewide transportation plan, Access Ohio 2045. ODOT invites you, your organization and any other interested individuals to attend one of our public meetings, listed below: Tuesday, October 15 - Toledo Metropolitan Area Council of Governments Wednesday, October 16 - Lima-Allen County Regional Planning Commission Thursday, October 17 - Greater Lawrence County Area Chamber of Commerce (South Point) Monday, October 21 - ODOT District 4 Offices (Akron) Tuesday, October 22 - Mid-Ohio Regional Planning Commission (Columbus) Wednesday, October 23 - Paul Brown Epic Center at Zane State College (Cambridge) Thursday, October 24 - Miami Valley Regional Planning Commission (Dayton) Wednesday, November 6 - Ohio-Kentucky-Indiana Regional Council of Governments (Cincinnati) Thursday, November 7 - Buckeye Hills Hocking Valley Regional Development District (Marietta) Thursday, November 14 - Northeast Ohio Areawide Coordinating Agency (Cleveland) All of the meetings are from 4 pm-7 pm. The general public, interested stakeholders, local elected officials and representatives from public/government entities are welcome to attend. The public meeting will be open house style, with a short presentation at 4:30 pm and again at 6 pm. During the public meeting members attendees can comment on Access Ohio 2045’s proposed strategies and actions. We respectfully request your assistance in spreading the word that these events are taking place and encourage your colleagues and other interested stakeholders to attend. ### Edited October 7, 20195 yr by KJP "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 30, 20195 yr State Highway Patrol released a GIS-esque application of all of the crashes in the state YTD, it can be found at: https://statepatrol.ohio.gov/ostats.aspx Not sure if this has been posted anywhere else in UO, feel free to move!
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