No, I did not :(

 

The food at the Tamarack is fantastic, by the way. Like you said, Greenbrier food - and that's all they serve during the day. If you don't have proper attire just to get inside the Greenbrier in White Sulphur Springs, this is the next best thing!

 

I have seen parts of the documentary... it's fascinating. It was called the Miracle Through the Mountains when it was built, but only a decade later, they were peddling shirts that said, "I survived the Turnpike!"

We'd use the Turnpike twice a year when I was a boy, once to go to Florida at Christmas and once in the spring to go to P.T.L. (Heritage USA) so that my folks could see Jim and Tammy Faye televangelize and give 'em money. The Turnpike was always backed up in the '80s before the dualization was completed, both due to construction and due to the nasty merges required when going back to the two-lane sections. I loved it because of the scenery but my dad raged over all the back-ups. And he hated side tolls, so we'd always eat at the service plazas. The first time we went through there after Memorial Tunnel was bypassed I was super bummed, but my dad was like "Hell yeah!" and floored it. That cut is pretty intense.

Lothar, WV's patron saint:

Eh, Clermont County's not much different.

Oddly, Lothar's accent sounds more like he is from NYC region. Maybe he's from the Catskills?

Oh man what are they thinking???? Artimis moving to Columbus????

 

http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/traffic/traffic_news/Traffic-resource-leaving-local-post

This isn't a surprise:

 

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2012/02/20/donor-state.html

 

But it is frustrating.  As I've surmised before, I bet county-by-county numbers for state funding would look similar with Cuyahoga coming out woefully underfunded compared to what we throw into the pot.

Indeed, the flow of tax money in general (not just for roads) is very urban --> rural, just as it's usually very blue state --> red state. 

Some of the most densely populated states are receiving more than they give, according to that map. Even the classic urban case of DC is a net recipient. The rule is broken in several cases.

Some of the most densely populated states are receiving more than they give, according to that map. Even the classic urban case of DC is a net recipient. The rule is broken in several cases.

 

I don't think DC is a great example because they're always rolling in Federal money.

$400-million in federal dollars to build the beginnings of a passenger rail system in Ohio that would have eased the burden on our highways and improved the movement of both people and freight.  It gets sent back as our Governor fulfills a campaign promise to kill the plan and is praised for it by highway interests and....BTW....by the Columbus Dispatch.

 

If you recall...our rail money went to a number of other states, including Michigan, Illinois and Maine...all of whom are today advancing more and faster passenger rail service.

 

But let Ohio lose even a red cent in federal $$$$ and from reading the front page of the Dispatch,you'd think the Hindenberg had crashed again.... "Oh the humanity!"

 

Critics called the 3C passenger rail plan "a boondoggle".  But where are those same critics when we have a transportation policy that has already chained us to a gasoline pump and continues to pour tax dollars into a real-life "black hole" for more concrete and asphalt?

 

Before Ohio leaders start wailing about losing federal gasoline tax revenues to other states, maybe we ought to pursue a transportation policy that allows for more options than having to reach for a set of car keys.

$400-million in federal dollars to build the beginnings of a passenger rail system in Ohio that would have eased the burden on our highways and improved the movement of both people and freight.  It gets sent back as our Governor fulfills a campaign promise to kill the plan and is praised for it by highway interests and....BTW....by the Columbus Dispatch.

 

If you recall...our rail money went to a number of other states, including Michigan, Illinois and Maine...all of whom are today advancing more and faster passenger rail service.

 

But let Ohio lose even a red cent in federal $$$$ and from reading the front page of the Dispatch,you'd think the Hindenberg had crashed again.... "Oh the humanity!"

 

Critics called the 3C passenger rail plan "a boondoggle".  But where are those same critics when we have a transportation policy that has already chained us to a gasoline pump and continues to pour tax dollars into a real-life "black hole" for more concrete and asphalt?

 

Before Ohio leaders start wailing about losing federal gasoline tax revenues to other states, maybe we ought to pursue a transportation policy that allows for more options than having to reach for a set of car keys.

 

I got a charge out of ODOT's Jerry Wray, when he suggested that the state match for federal highway dollars be cut to 10% vs. the current 20% at a hearing hosted by Congressman John Mica. Mica promptly shot Wray down, telling him that if anything, the state share would go up, possibly to 50%. This was last year. ODOT is desparate.

E-check may become obsolete after First Energy's coal fired plants at Bayshore, Cleveland, and Eastlake shut down.  The counties that require E-check may soon have air that is clean enough to meet federal air standards without the vehicle testing program.  Then we can end E-check and leave the money in the state budget for other purposes.

 

I know that Ohio signs multi-year contracts with the vendor(s).  It may be years until the contracts end.

 

As soon as voters in the E-Check area find out it's not needed any more, there'll be a lot of pressure to buy out the contracts and shut the misbegotten program down. 

Wait I thought E-Check ended years ago?

^ In Cincinnati and Dayton, yes. Columbus never had it but NE Ohio still does.

Bad Transit Condemns Much of Ohio’s Growing Urban Poor to Dependency

 

Bad Transit Condemns Much of Ohio’s Growing Urban Poor to Dependency

 

by Angie Schmitt

 

Once every four years, politicians descend on a hard luck steel town in Northeast, Ohio called Youngstown.

 

Cleavon McClendon has been staying at a shelter in Youngstown, Ohio since he lost his job due to poor transportation options. Photo: Huffington Post

 

With a 50 percent poverty rate — the worst in the country — Youngstown makes a compelling a campaign speech backdrop, illustrating everything that is wrong with government, or maybe America. Mitt Romney appeared there this week on the eve of Super Tuesday.

 

The irony of the situation is, of course, that decades of promises have done little to improve the city’s lot. Since the decline of the steel industry that was its lifeblood 40 years ago, life has been very hard here for many people here. Despite recent promising efforts to rebuild the city around tech startups and downtown living, there’s definitely a class of people being left behind, with few options.

 

And transportation is at the heart of the problem.

 

Tom Zeller Jr., writing for the Huffington Post, summed up the problem facing Youngstown’s poor

There are only two ways to change Ohio's abysmal transportation policies:

 

a) Overturn Article XII, 5a of the state Constitution, which mandates that all of the gas taxes and vehicle fees go only to roads. Since Ohio gets nearly all transportation money from these sources, we build roads to the exclusion of all else.

 

b) File suit under ADA and civil rights statutes to overturn Article XII, 5a and/or allocate a yearly amount based on the number of Ohio households without a motor vehicle. Currently, 8% of Ohio households do not have a vehicle---that's a million people---and if the state allocated accordingly, we'd have $240 million a year for public transportation instead of the puny $5-$10 million at present.

 

The legislature is dominated by suburban and rural legislators who are not about to do anything to help urban dwellers.

http://www.ohiocitizen.org/about/training/ballotconsiderations.html

 

A ballot initiative would cost

 

 

$1.50 x valid signatures or $610,000

expect to spend 1.5-10 million dolalrs on getting the message out.

 

this would be a 2-11 million dollar endeavor.

 

I think the call to arms needs to be the state gas tax itself, the lack of accountability of ODOT, the need for local control of transportation funds.

 

ODOT needs to become an advisory board for local transportation issues, not the heavy handed group of thugs in protected position.

 

defund the bastards.

 

the nature of the Gas tax in OHio is unfair, where the populous counties subsidize the rural counties. It is a classic case of redistribution of wealth.

 

We would put forth an ballot issues that would create

 

A new formula for distrubution of gas tax revenue based upon population and the areas economic strength, our top 5 MSAs generate 75% of the States GDP, our transportation funding needs to represent that.

 

A restructured less centralized ODOT, that is accountable to local counties and municipality, not the Governor.  the at the state level the role of ODOT would be to facilitate and mange projects that are outside the jurisdiction of the local offices and to coordinate local branches of ODOT. local ODOT leaders would be appointed by the counties that make up that distrit, and no longer appointed by the governor.

 

A transportation funding mechanism to provide consistent funding for transit operations, from gas tax and or toll revenue. either way to mandate a place at the table for transit agencies, out side of the scope of political interference in Columbus, make it local, make it regional.

 

the question I cannot answer is who are our allies in this and who are our enemies.

 

this will help determine how to raise the money needed to put this on the ballot.

 

 

You'd also have to have a campaign for the intitiative, a GOTV effort and enough money to overcome the power of the highway lobby, Republicans and their minions. The highway contractors alone have a $4 million war chest on hand. The actual cost of any such campaign could be uopwards of $15-20 million, unless a substantial grass roots campaign is undertaken.

 

I do think we should seriously look at this. I'm tired of the stranglehold the highway types have over us. The one thing we COULD do that wouldn't cost nearly as much is to wait until the contractors start to push for a gas tax increase or other measure and then get a delegation of allied organizations together and march in the OCA headquarters and tell them we will oppose ANY increase UNLESS there is a SUBSTANTIAL, iron-clad agreement for more than just roads. We might have a chance here.

You'd also have to have a campaign for the intitiative, a GOTV effort and enough money to overcome the power of the highway lobby, Republicans and their minions. The highway contractors alone have a $4 million war chest on hand. The actual cost of any such campaign could be uopwards of $15-20 million, unless a substantial grass roots campaign is undertaken.

 

I do think we should seriously look at this. I'm tired of the stranglehold the highway types have over us. The one thing we COULD do that wouldn't cost nearly as much is to wait until the contractors start to push for a gas tax increase or other measure and then get a delegation of allied organizations together and march in the OCA headquarters and tell them we will oppose ANY increase UNLESS there is a SUBSTANTIAL, iron-clad agreement for more than just roads. We might have a chance here.

 

where do we start?

I think it would be much less expensive and have a higher degree of success if Ohio's Constitution could amended through the courts, such as challenging it on federal ADA issues or have persons disabled by car accidents claim state gas tax funding for their treatment and/or mobility -- as may be permitted under the existing article. But legal fights would probably take longer, unless a ballot issue fails on the first or second attempts.

 

Here is the language.......

 

http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/constitution.cfm?Part=12&Section=05a

 

§ 12.05a Use of motor vehicle license and fuel taxes restricted

[ View Article Table of Contents ]

No moneys derived from fees, excises, or license taxes relating to registration, operation, or use of vehicles on public highways, or to fuels used for propelling such vehicles, shall be expended for other than costs of administering such laws, statutory refunds and adjustments provided therein, payment of highway obligations, costs for construction, reconstruction, maintenance and repair of public highways and bridges and other statutory highway purposes, expense of state enforcement of traffic laws, and expenditures authorized for hospitalization of indigent persons injured in motor vehicle accidents on the public highways.

 

(Adopted November 4, 1947; effective January 1, 1948.)

I think biker16 has the right angle, framing the status quo as wealth distribution. If you want to sway Republicans, speak in their language. Which is very natural here.

 

Edit: For such a campaign, anyway. KJP's avenue through the courts is more likely to win, but also more limited in scope.

You'd also have to have a campaign for the intitiative, a GOTV effort and enough money to overcome the power of the highway lobby, Republicans and their minions. The highway contractors alone have a $4 million war chest on hand. The actual cost of any such campaign could be uopwards of $15-20 million, unless a substantial grass roots campaign is undertaken.

 

I do think we should seriously look at this. I'm tired of the stranglehold the highway types have over us. The one thing we COULD do that wouldn't cost nearly as much is to wait until the contractors start to push for a gas tax increase or other measure and then get a delegation of allied organizations together and march in the OCA headquarters and tell them we will oppose ANY increase UNLESS there is a SUBSTANTIAL, iron-clad agreement for more than just roads. We might have a chance here.

 

where do we start?

 

While there may have been some informal discussions, I think the first thing to do is to bring all the various groups together in one place to discuss a course of action and go from there. Groups representing the disabled, minorities, urban interests and seniors are a start. In any event, we have realize this will be a hard fight.

 

BTW, like what you had to say in your previous message, Biker16!

 

Let's remember that the highway boys want something---an increase in funding---and we have to be there to demand more than just more roads. We could end up working with them for an equitable solution IF we show strength and make them realize that they won't get what they want without compromise. Just the prospect of serious, organized opposition should make them think twice and they should realize that those who have nothing will have nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking a strong stance on ths issue.

BTW, I wonder if this thread should be moved to the ODOT policy discussion thread?

That, or this thread.....

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,9832.0.html

I think it would be much less expensive and have a higher degree of success if Ohio's Constitution could amended through the courts, such as challenging it on federal ADA issues or have persons disabled by car accidents claim state gas tax funding for their treatment and/or mobility -- as may be permitted under the existing article. But legal fights would probably take longer, unless a ballot issue fails on the first or second attempts.

 

Here is the language.......

 

http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/constitution.cfm?Part=12&Section=05a

 

§ 12.05a Use of motor vehicle license and fuel taxes restricted

[ View Article Table of Contents ]

No moneys derived from fees, excises, or license taxes relating to registration, operation, or use of vehicles on public highways, or to fuels used for propelling such vehicles, shall be expended for other than costs of administering such laws, statutory refunds and adjustments provided therein, payment of highway obligations, costs for construction, reconstruction, maintenance and repair of public highways and bridges and other statutory highway purposes, expense of state enforcement of traffic laws, and expenditures authorized for hospitalization of indigent persons injured in motor vehicle accidents on the public highways.

 

(Adopted November 4, 1947; effective January 1, 1948.)

 

We deserve more, why stop at redstributing the funding while still maintaining a centralized distribution mechanism, I don't trust Columbus to do the right thing the power of this state is designed to marginalize urban areas, which provide the 75% of the state's GDP, but are routinely underfunded by politicos in Columbus.

 

If you want proof to how effective, the judicial route can be, look at school funding.

 

You'd also have to have a campaign for the intitiative, a GOTV effort and enough money to overcome the power of the highway lobby, Republicans and their minions. The highway contractors alone have a $4 million war chest on hand. The actual cost of any such campaign could be uopwards of $15-20 million, unless a substantial grass roots campaign is undertaken.

 

I do think we should seriously look at this. I'm tired of the stranglehold the highway types have over us. The one thing we COULD do that wouldn't cost nearly as much is to wait until the contractors start to push for a gas tax increase or other measure and then get a delegation of allied organizations together and march in the OCA headquarters and tell them we will oppose ANY increase UNLESS there is a SUBSTANTIAL, iron-clad agreement for more than just roads. We might have a chance here.

 

where do we start?

 

While there may have been some informal discussions, I think the first thing to do is to bring all the various groups together in one place to discuss a course of action and go from there. Groups representing the disabled, minorities, urban interests and seniors are a start. In any event, we have realize this will be a hard fight.

 

BTW, like what you had to say in your previous message, Biker16!

 

Let's remember that the highway boys want something---an increase in funding---and we have to be there to demand more than just more roads. We could end up working with them for an equitable solution IF we show strength and make them realize that they won't get what they want without compromise. Just the prospect of serious, organized opposition should make them think twice and they should realize that those who have nothing will have nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking a strong stance on this issue.

 

I can only speak for myself, but I have been to ODOT HQ and watched our local politician kiss the gold ring, while being completely ignored by ODOT.  I feel the time for demanding them to listen is over, now we must make them listen, the best way to do so is to... defund, restructure and redirect.    Seeing Matt Zone and Bob Brown beg ODOT to do what they promised to do, only to be blindsided by the Innerbelt bridge, I was outraged, how dare they.  the system is irreparably  broken.

 

Defund, Restructure and Redirect

 

We are non longer asking.

 

My problem is my voice is not strong enough to get these disparate political interests to coalesces on this ballot initiative.

 

We need the support of:

Mayors of the 5 largest cities in the state Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati, Akron, Dayton.

County governments of the those 5 metros.

County executive, Fitzgerald.

State Representatives and senator of these major metro areas.

 

most importantly a deep pocketed funding source, to help fund the initial petition drive, grant from non-profit foundations.

 

you have to build enough grassroots support for it, to make opposition to it futile, this involves shame and embarrassment of the opposition, redistribution of wealth, inequality towards the 8%of Ohioans who do not drive.  the cronyism of ODOT, etc... 

 

Local control is the key

 

 

Local control is the key

 

I hope you don't regret that wish -- I'm afraid that we're going to get it.  The feds are cutting their transportation budget.  The state is cutting its transportation budget.  Cities and counties are going to be left to fund their own projects.  I don't see large piles of cash building up in any cities. 

 

You think the potholes are big now -- just wait.  And hopefully I'm wrong about all that...

The current highway system is unsustainable in the long run. Might as well get used to the idea.

Local control is the key

 

I hope you don't regret that wish -- I'm afraid that we're going to get it.  The feds are cutting their transportation budget.  The state is cutting its transportation budget.  Cities and counties are going to be left to fund their own projects.  I don't see large piles of cash building up in any cities. 

 

You think the potholes are big now -- just wait.  And hopefully I'm wrong about all that...

 

you know what would help?  if the gas tax dollars captured in those areas are returned to those areas.

 

I think that would give Cuyahoga country an extra 100 million per year to invest on roads and bridges.

 

My personal belief is that Gas taxes should be used primarily on non federal highways, and that a Tolls should be the primary method to fund interstates between urban areas.  I would keep urban areas free of tolls, but place toll gates btween Exurban areas and urban areas where they would not create congestion issues.

Local control is the key

 

I hope you don't regret that wish -- I'm afraid that we're going to get it.  The feds are cutting their transportation budget.  The state is cutting its transportation budget.  Cities and counties are going to be left to fund their own projects.  I don't see large piles of cash building up in any cities. 

 

You think the potholes are big now -- just wait.  And hopefully I'm wrong about all that...

 

With this being the case, USDOT should allow state DOTs to toll interstates to fund their maintenance.

Local control is the key

 

I hope you don't regret that wish -- I'm afraid that we're going to get it.  The feds are cutting their transportation budget.  The state is cutting its transportation budget.  Cities and counties are going to be left to fund their own projects.  I don't see large piles of cash building up in any cities. 

 

You think the potholes are big now -- just wait.  And hopefully I'm wrong about all that...

 

With this being the case, USDOT should allow state DOTs to toll interstates to fund their maintenance.

 

That's already going to happen in Missouri, where I-70 is to be tolled between St. Louis and Kansas City in order to pay for reconstruction of that road. This is a development that bears watching.

Local control is the key

 

I hope you don't regret that wish -- I'm afraid that we're going to get it.  The feds are cutting their transportation budget.  The state is cutting its transportation budget.  Cities and counties are going to be left to fund their own projects.  I don't see large piles of cash building up in any cities. 

 

You think the potholes are big now -- just wait.  And hopefully I'm wrong about all that...

 

With this being the case, USDOT should allow state DOTs to toll interstates to fund their maintenance.

 

their was amendment to do this in the MAP21 Senate transportation bill that never made it to a vote, that would have done just that.

 

right now there is a pilot program that allows 3 interstate to be converted to tollways, it make sense because not all users travel between cities offten as others.

 

using an EZ-pass system can save heavy road users time and money. freeing up more money for local road, pedestrian and transit projects.

>this is how the interstate highway system was built.

 

 

The interstates were not built in the fashion you describe.  For example, there was already considerable planning and about 10 miles of construction in Hamilton County completed for Cincinnati-Dayton and Cincinnati-Columbus superhighways before 1956.  I-75 and I-71 were built very quickly after passage of the bill, which increased the federal gasoline tax and shifted it entirely to the new highway trust fund, with the entire length of I-75 opening in 1963 and 100 miles of I-71 between the outskirts of Cincinnati and Columbus by 1965 (I-71 had a 5~ mile gap within Cincinnati city limits until about 1972).  So construction of the interstates, while in phases, followed one another very quickly, with no delays due to lack of funds.  There also, of course, was never a public vote on the whole interstate highway program. 

 

The thing that people need to keep in mind is that if we do a statewide ballot initiative like California did, the way to get the public's attention is with speed.  People pay attention when you say 125mph, but they pay a lot more attention when you say 180mph.  Even if just 20 miles between the 3c's hit this speed, it will capture the public's attention much more than a run of the same time with a lower top speed.

 

 

 

To add to what KJP said, I think Ohio is so backward it'll be years before anything happens if it's left to its own devices. A ballot initiative would be very difficult to pull off and there would be serious opposition from highway contractors, Republicans, tea partiers, NIMBY's and Kasich if he's still around. This would definitely be an uphill struggle and if it went down, we will have poisoned the well for years to come.

 

I think the best chance we have is to try to take advantage of Ohio's geographic position astride the Chicago-east coast corridor thru the northern end of the state and focus on ways to improve current Amtrak service there. This could create several trains a day thru Toledo and Cleveland, giving us a base level of service to point to for the rest of the state. These would likely be conventional trains with a top speed of no more than 90 mph (avg 60 mph).

 

Keep in mind also that in terms of political outlook, NE Ohio is not like other areas of the state and already has the state's biggest transit system, light rail and intercity rail passenger service (even if it's in the middle of the night). I think there is a growing awareness that the tea-party/Republican dominated state government is not going to do anything to help urban areas in NE Ohio and that they will have to fend for themselves. NOACA has already taken a position that they are not going to be building any more new freeways and transit use is booming. Plainly, there will be a move toward more public transportation and intercity rail should be a part of that mix, beginning with a new intermodal hub.

 

Toledo is also very supportive of rail and might step up if there's a real chance something could happen in northern Ohio. they already made a substantial investment in the train station there. Ditto Sandusky and Elyria. We have to build a solid business and economic development case for this to happen.

 

At least in northern Ohio we have some things in our favor. Personally, I'd like to see a northern Ohio transportation authority formed to deal with issues common to that part of the state.

 

The only other choice is to make a legal case that Ohio's transportation system violates the ADA and civil rights statutes. Much cheaper than a ballot intiative, but no guaranteed outcome.

>this is how the interstate highway system was built.

 

 

The interstates were not built in the fashion you describe.  For example, there was already considerable planning and about 10 miles of construction in Hamilton County completed for Cincinnati-Dayton and Cincinnati-Columbus superhighways before 1956.  I-75 and I-71 were built very quickly after passage of the bill, which increased the federal gasoline tax and shifted it entirely to the new highway trust fund, with the entire length of I-75 opening in 1963 and 100 miles of I-71 between the outskirts of Cincinnati and Columbus by 1965 (I-71 had a 5~ mile gap within Cincinnati city limits until about 1972).  So construction of the interstates, while in phases, followed one another very quickly, with no delays due to lack of funds.  There also, of course, was never a public vote on the whole interstate highway program. 

 

The thing that people need to keep in mind is that if we do a statewide ballot initiative like California did, the way to get the public's attention is with speed.  People pay attention when you say 125mph, but they pay a lot more attention when you say 180mph.  Even if just 20 miles between the 3c's hit this speed, it will capture the public's attention much more than a run of the same time with a lower top speed.

 

 

 

To add to what KJP said, I think Ohio is so backward it'll be years before anything happens if it's left to its own devices. A ballot initiative would be very difficult to pull off and there would be serious opposition from highway contractors, Republicans, tea partiers, NIMBY's and Kasich if he's still around. This would definitely be an uphill struggle and if it went down, we will have poisoned the well for years to come.

 

I think the best chance we have is to try to take advantage of Ohio's geographic position astride the Chicago-east coast corridor thru the northern end of the state and focus on ways to improve current Amtrak service there. This could create several trains a day thru Toledo and Cleveland, giving us a base level of service to point to for the rest of the state. These would likely be conventional trains with a top speed of no more than 90 mph (avg 60 mph).

 

Keep in mind also that in terms of political outlook, NE Ohio is not like other areas of the state and already has the state's biggest transit system, light rail and intercity rail passenger service (even if it's in the middle of the night). I think there is a growing awareness that the tea-party/Republican dominated state government is not going to do anything to help urban areas in NE Ohio and that they will have to fend for themselves. NOACA has already taken a position that they are not going to be building any more new freeways and transit use is booming. Plainly, there will be a move toward more public transportation and intercity rail should be a part of that mix, beginning with a new intermodal hub.

 

Toledo is also very supportive of rail and might step up if there's a real chance something could happen in northern Ohio. they already made a substantial investment in the train station there. Ditto Sandusky and Elyria. We have to build a solid business and economic development case for this to happen.

 

At least in northern Ohio we have some things in our favor. Personally, I'd like to see a northern Ohio transportation authority formed to deal with issues common to that part of the state.

 

The only other choice is to make a legal case that Ohio's transportation system violates the ADA and civil rights statutes. Much cheaper than a ballot intiative, but no guaranteed outcome.

 

I think the call to arms needs to be the state gas tax itself, the lack of accountability of ODOT, the need for local control of transportation funds.

Defund, Restructure and Redirect

 

We are non longer asking.

 

Defund the centralized bloated ODOT political machine

 

Restructure ODOT to be more decentralized with most planning, contracting and decision making taking place at the district level, not in Columbus. 

 

Redirect ODOT towards multi-modal investment, direct by local officials, not bureaucrats in Columbus

 

you have to build enough grassroots support for it, to make opposition to it futile, this involves shame and embarrassment of the opposition, redistribution of wealth, inequality towards the 8%of Ohioans who do not drive.  the cronyism of ODOT, etc...

 

Local control is the key

 

ODOT needs to become an advisory board for local transportation issues, not the heavy handed group of thugs in protected positions.

 

A restructured less centralized ODOT, that is accountable to local counties and municipality, not the Governor.  the at the state level the role of ODOT would be to facilitate and mange projects that are outside the jurisdiction of the local offices and to coordinate local branches of ODOT. local ODOT leaders would be appointed by the counties that make up that district, and no longer appointed by the governor.

 

A transportation funding mechanism to provide consistent funding for transit operations, from gas tax and or toll revenue. either way to mandate a place at the table for transit agencies, outside of the scope of political interference in Columbus, make it local, make it regional, make it better.

 

 

>this is how the interstate highway system was built.

 

 

The interstates were not built in the fashion you describe.  For example, there was already considerable planning and about 10 miles of construction in Hamilton County completed for Cincinnati-Dayton and Cincinnati-Columbus superhighways before 1956.  I-75 and I-71 were built very quickly after passage of the bill, which increased the federal gasoline tax and shifted it entirely to the new highway trust fund, with the entire length of I-75 opening in 1963 and 100 miles of I-71 between the outskirts of Cincinnati and Columbus by 1965 (I-71 had a 5~ mile gap within Cincinnati city limits until about 1972).  So construction of the interstates, while in phases, followed one another very quickly, with no delays due to lack of funds.  There also, of course, was never a public vote on the whole interstate highway program. 

 

The thing that people need to keep in mind is that if we do a statewide ballot initiative like California did, the way to get the public's attention is with speed.  People pay attention when you say 125mph, but they pay a lot more attention when you say 180mph.  Even if just 20 miles between the 3c's hit this speed, it will capture the public's attention much more than a run of the same time with a lower top speed.

 

 

 

To add to what KJP said, I think Ohio is so backward it'll be years before anything happens if it's left to its own devices. A ballot initiative would be very difficult to pull off and there would be serious opposition from highway contractors, Republicans, tea partiers, NIMBY's and Kasich if he's still around. This would definitely be an uphill struggle and if it went down, we will have poisoned the well for years to come.

 

I think the best chance we have is to try to take advantage of Ohio's geographic position astride the Chicago-east coast corridor thru the northern end of the state and focus on ways to improve current Amtrak service there. This could create several trains a day thru Toledo and Cleveland, giving us a base level of service to point to for the rest of the state. These would likely be conventional trains with a top speed of no more than 90 mph (avg 60 mph).

 

Keep in mind also that in terms of political outlook, NE Ohio is not like other areas of the state and already has the state's biggest transit system, light rail and intercity rail passenger service (even if it's in the middle of the night). I think there is a growing awareness that the tea-party/Republican dominated state government is not going to do anything to help urban areas in NE Ohio and that they will have to fend for themselves. NOACA has already taken a position that they are not going to be building any more new freeways and transit use is booming. Plainly, there will be a move toward more public transportation and intercity rail should be a part of that mix, beginning with a new intermodal hub.

 

Toledo is also very supportive of rail and might step up if there's a real chance something could happen in northern Ohio. they already made a substantial investment in the train station there. Ditto Sandusky and Elyria. We have to build a solid business and economic development case for this to happen.

 

At least in northern Ohio we have some things in our favor. Personally, I'd like to see a northern Ohio transportation authority formed to deal with issues common to that part of the state.

 

The only other choice is to make a legal case that Ohio's transportation system violates the ADA and civil rights statutes. Much cheaper than a ballot intiative, but no guaranteed outcome.

 

I think the call to arms needs to be the state gas tax itself, the lack of accountability of ODOT, the need for local control of transportation funds.

Defund, Restructure and Redirect

 

We are non longer asking.

 

Defund the centralized bloated ODOT political machine

 

Restructure ODOT to be more decentralized with most planning, contracting and decision making taking place at the district level, not in Columbus. 

 

Redirect ODOT towards multi-modal investment, direct by local officials, not bureaucrats in Columbus

 

you have to build enough grassroots support for it, to make opposition to it futile, this involves shame and embarrassment of the opposition, redistribution of wealth, inequality towards the 8%of Ohioans who do not drive.  the cronyism of ODOT, etc...

 

Local control is the key

 

ODOT needs to become an advisory board for local transportation issues, not the heavy handed group of thugs in protected positions.

 

A restructured less centralized ODOT, that is accountable to local counties and municipality, not the Governor.  the at the state level the role of ODOT would be to facilitate and mange projects that are outside the jurisdiction of the local offices and to coordinate local branches of ODOT. local ODOT leaders would be appointed by the counties that make up that district, and no longer appointed by the governor.

 

A transportation funding mechanism to provide consistent funding for transit operations, from gas tax and or toll revenue. either way to mandate a place at the table for transit agencies, outside of the scope of political interference in Columbus, make it local, make it regional, make it better.

 

 

 

Testifyin'! Tell it, Brother!

 

Yes, you are right to say we should go after the gas tax and the rotten system it supports.

04-30-12 Posting Date

 

TRAC Re-Evaluation of Economic Factors

 

Transportation Review Advisory Council (TRAC) in conjunction with the Ohio Department of Transportation (ODOT) conducts an annual application cycle for project sponsors seeking funds from the Major New Capacity Program. The application process includes the evaluation of transportation, community and economic growth, and sponsor investment factors which are scored on a numerical scale in accordance with the TRAC Policies & Procedures (June 2011). Scoring information is used to aid TRAC in the development of the Major New Program List which establishes funding commitments for project development and construction. TRAC has well established process for evaluating transportation factors with known system data but has had difficulty with developing a process to accurately identify, quantify, and rank economic benefits of proposed projects as part of the Community and Economic Growth and Development Factors analysis. The goal of this study is to evaluate economic impact analysis conducted for transportation projects to identify potential TRAC policy and procedural improvements. A consultant agreement to conduct the study will be included in the May 14, 2012 Programmatic Consultant Selection Group. The preliminary Scope of Services is available through the following link:

 

http://www.dot.state.oh.us/Divisions/Engineering/Consultant/Consultant/TRACEconomicROI_ScopeApproach.pdf

I have no reason whatsoever to believe the results of this study are not predetermined.

FYI......

 

Dear Transportation Partner:

 

The Ohio Department of Transportation (ODOT) has begun the process of updating Ohio’s long-range transportation plan, Access Ohio. The new plan, with a horizon year of 2040, will include a comprehensive inventory, forecast, and analysis of the trends and issues affecting transportation throughout Ohio. This plan is important to Ohio’s future, as it will set the stage for ODOT transportation policies and investment strategies for the coming years.

 

This survey will function as the first public and stakeholder involvement activity of Access Ohio and guide the development of the goals and objectives.  The public survey will capture a statistically valid sample of Ohio residents.  An identical survey instrument will be utilized for the stakeholder survey.  This will allow ODOT to capture the preferences of Ohio’s transportation stakeholders and the public.

 

If you choose to participate, you can complete the survey online at the following website: http://www.odotsurvey.com.

 

If you have any questions about ODOT’s Customer Preferences Survey, please contact ETC Institute at (888) 801-5368. If you have any questions regarding Access Ohio 2040, please contact Scott Phinney, (614) 644-9147.  Thank you in advance for your time.  Your feedback is extremely valuable and will shape the future of Ohio’s transportation system.

 

Respectfully,

 

Scott Phinney

Administrator, Office of Statewide Planning & Research

Ohio Department of Transportation

www.transportation.gov/accessohio

Beware of trains, Mr. Phinney!

Answer to the budget question:

Raise the gasoline tax enough to pay for the Cleveland Innerbelt Bridge.

Fund local streets from the gasoline tax budget, instead of from property tax levies. 

Pay for the Highway Patrol out of the gasoline tax budget.

 

Other answers:

The transportation system based on petroleum fuels is unsustainable.  Resources are being depleted and driving is becoming unaffordable.  Hence, the government needs to provide efficient mass transit within the communities and between the population centers.  The government needs to make cycling a safe alternative that requires no fuel.

 

Texting and cell phone use is an unnecessary hazard that threatens pedestrians, cyclists, and other motorists.  All such distractions should be banned, including "hands free" car phones. 

FYI......

 

Dear Transportation Partner:

 

The Ohio Department of Transportation (ODOT) has begun the process of updating Ohios long-range transportation plan, Access Ohio. The new plan, with a horizon year of 2040, will include a comprehensive inventory, forecast, and analysis of the trends and issues affecting transportation throughout Ohio. This plan is important to Ohios future, as it will set the stage for ODOT transportation policies and investment strategies for the coming years.

 

This survey will function as the first public and stakeholder involvement activity of Access Ohio and guide the development of the goals and objectives.  The public survey will capture a statistically valid sample of Ohio residents.  An identical survey instrument will be utilized for the stakeholder survey.  This will allow ODOT to capture the preferences of Ohios transportation stakeholders and the public.

 

If you choose to participate, you can complete the survey online at the following website: http://www.odotsurvey.com.

 

If you have any questions about ODOTs Customer Preferences Survey, please contact ETC Institute at (888) 801-5368. If you have any questions regarding Access Ohio 2040, please contact Scott Phinney, (614) 644-9147.  Thank you in advance for your time.  Your feedback is extremely valuable and will shape the future of Ohios transportation system.

 

Respectfully,

 

Scott Phinney

Administrator, Office of Statewide Planning & Research

Ohio Department of Transportation

www.transportation.gov/accessohio

 

What a charade.

Didn't the state just do a big study of transportation preferences under Strickland? Have people's opinions really changed that much in the last couple years?

Didn't the state just do a big study of transportation preferences under Strickland? Have people's opinions really changed that much in the last couple years?

 

Except that survey was done under an administration that favored providing travel choices, so of course that's what the results showed! ;-) Oddly enough, prior Access Ohio studies done under Govs Taft and Voinovich also showed strong public support for bikes, trains and transit! Clearly the people are mistaken, so ODOT has continued to put 99 percent of Ohioans transportation tax dollars into roads.

 

Like the monopolistic railroad barons said in the Gilded Age "May the public be damned!" Odd how the pendulum has swung entirely in the opposite direction, into the clutches of a state-sponsored monopoly!

 

Sent from my BlackBerry 9810 using Tapatalk

Someone is trying to figure out their new phone/app. Lame how a paid app advertises itself by default.

 

Don't you know Blackberries are so last decade? RIM is now looking for a buyer.

 

These Highway Barons are just looking for people who will say they want a big handout in the form of highway dollars, which they inevitably will since everyone loves a handout. Any other info they gather will be conveniently ignored, since "we can't have everything" (like choices).

Someone is trying to figure out their new phone/app. Lame how a paid app advertises itself by default.

 

Don't you know Blackberries are so last decade? RIM is now looking for a buyer.

 

These Highway Barons are just looking for people who will say they want a big handout in the form of highway dollars, which they inevitably will since everyone loves a handout. Any other info they gather will be conveniently ignored, since "we can't have everything" (like choices).

 

But....But....HIGHWAY CONGESTION!!!!!!!

I just responded to the ODOT survey.

 

My answer to the "What is the most important transportation issue facing Ohio?" question:

Meeting the needs of FUTURE users of the transportation system -- the next generation of leaders: the people who are driving less and using transit and (in other states) rail systems more and more, and biking and walking more. Build a system for my kids -- not for me.

 

My response to the final comment section, "If you have any other comments that you would like to share with ODOT, please provide them in the space below:"

Ohio will lose its best and brightest young people if it continues in its failure to provide transportation choice. Today's youth are less interested in cars and driving, and are making different lifestyle choices. Without inter-city rail, regional buses and/or rail, metropolitan and local transit and rail, and accommodation of bicycles and pedestrians, Ohio will be irrelevant in the future economy.

 

I listed myself as an economic development professional.

I just responded to the ODOT survey.

 

My answer to the "What is the most important transportation issue facing Ohio?" question:

Meeting the needs of FUTURE users of the transportation system -- the next generation of leaders: the people who are driving less and using transit and (in other states) rail systems more and more, and biking and walking more. Build a system for my kids -- not for me.

 

My response to the final comment section, "If you have any other comments that you would like to share with ODOT, please provide them in the space below:"

Ohio will lose its best and brightest young people if it continues in its failure to provide transportation choice. Today's youth are less interested in cars and driving, and are making different lifestyle choices. Without inter-city rail, regional buses and/or rail, metropolitan and local transit and rail, and accommodation of bicycles and pedestrians, Ohio will be irrelevant in the future economy.

 

I listed myself as an economic development professional.

 

My comments were similar.  Unfortunately even if 10,000 of us responded as thus ODOT would probably stay the course.  Their current cushy state jobs depend on it.

^ Except the results are public record, and reporters and advocacy groups can call attention to them. It's a start.

Someone is trying to figure out their new phone/app. Lame how a paid app advertises itself by default.

 

Don't you know Blackberries are so last decade? RIM is now looking for a buyer.

 

 

Are you trying to communicate with someone who cares about such things? BTW, I don't pay for apps. I rarely use the apps I have except when I'm bored.