Not necessarily a "list," but Triple-A Diamond ratings are out:

 

http://newsroom.aaa.com/diamond-ratings/

 

No five-diamond restaurants in the state.  Cincinnati has 5 4-diamond restaurants, Columbus 2, and Cleveland 1. 

There is a five-diamond hotel in Aurora (the Inn Walden).  Columbus has 5 hotels that make the 4-diamond list, Cincinnati 3, and Cleveland 2. 

 

(No idea how exactly they come up with these lists, but still interesting to see these kind of ratings.) 

If Covington KY's "Cincinnati Marriott at RiverCenter" was added, Cincinnati would actually have 4 "Four-Diamond Hotels."

 

Aurora is kind of in between.  It is in the Akron metro (due to it being in Summit County.....

 

Aurora is within Portage County.

^Right you are.  I was suprised by that, since I always associate Aurora and Hudson together.  Looks like it is right at the point where Cuyahoga/Summit/Portage/Geauga all meet.

For two of Cleveland's old school four diamond restaurants Classics and Baricelli Inn, the clientele dying off from old age becomes a factor. People just don't eat that way any more; nobody wants to consistently spend 3-4 hours at a restaurant having a 5-6 course $100 meal outside of a rare occasion.

 

There is still a some demand, and that's why you see places with wine/beer dinners once a month doing fantastically well. It's not a way of eating that anyone can afford to do weekly from either a finance or time perspective.

I've visited the Inn at Walden back in my event planning days. A group from my job has a retreat there pretty much every year. It's nice, but it didn't blow me away. But then again I only visited, I didn't stay there.

 

My cousin's wedding was there.  Service was amazing through and through, food was excellent but sort of standard banquet food, suites were huge and well appointed but sort of generic modern "lodge" style.  The suite that they put me (and only me) up in was perhaps 3 times the size of my apartment.  The suite had a hot tub, fireplace, walk in closet, minibar, and 2 bathrooms.  The shower stall was the size of my whole bathroom.

I suppose this could have gone in the religion thread, but belongs here just as much.

 

These Are The Most Godless Cities In America Apparently the Cleveland/Akron/Canton area is 50th.

^ Come on, you can be more inclusive.

 

36. Dayton

45. Cincinnati

47. Columbus

50. Cleveland

88. Toledo

 

And these are ranks for "Bible-mindedness," not Godlessness. So Toledo would be (by far) the most "Godless," with Cleveland, Columbus, and Cincy lumped together, and Dayton the most Bible-minded city in the state.

 

I think it's interesting how the 3Cs often are lumped together in lists like this. Perhaps they are more culturally similar than we recognize.

yeah, c'mon Toledo! Shame on you! :evil:

^I included them originally, but the headline reverses the meaning of the rankings so including others would either require changing the headline or explaining the reversed meaning so I got lazy and just included Cleveland because it's in the middle either way you look at it. Sorry.

I think it's interesting how the 3Cs often are lumped together in lists like this. Perhaps they are more culturally similar than we recognize.

 

Perhaps.  But I would suspect that Cleveland's "Bible-mindedness" is a bit different with our large® catholic and jewish populations.  And especially with jews, that makes a big difference in terms of how it permeates through the city.

I think it's interesting how the 3Cs often are lumped together in lists like this. Perhaps they are more culturally similar than we recognize.

 

Perhaps.  But I would suspect that Cleveland's "Bible-mindedness" is a bit different with our large® catholic and jewish populations.  And especially with jews, that makes a big difference in terms of how it permeates through the city.

 

I wasn't talking about this list specifically, but I'd say what you bring up actually highlights a similarity more than a difference, at least between Ctown and Cincy. (OTOH it highlights a huge difference between those cities and Columbus, which has a totally different religious demographic profile.) While Cleveland does have more Catholics (which surprised me) and more Jews, the numbers are fairly close making them account for less than a 5% difference, total. According to this site, anyway. Though, according to that site, the rankings would probably be reversed (it shows Cincinnati having marginally fewer religious people).

 

Cincy's Jews are likely more secular, since the city is the birthplace of the American Reform movement, and Conservative and Orthodox Jews are underrepresented. But the Jewish population in both cities is too small to have a great impact either way. My guess is Cleveland would fall quite a bit lower on the list if it didn't have such a comparably large minority population, especially largely Catholic Puerto Ricans.

 

Edit: Anecdotally, a few years back, I was on a Greyhound to the east coast which passed through Cleveland, where we picked up an Orthodox Rabbi from Israel. We were talking about American Judaism (though he was hard to understand w/ his thick Israeli accent), and I mentioned Cincinnati's role in the American Reform movement. He told me Cincinnati Jews aren't real Jews, haha. I thought it was kind of a nasty thing to say. There are Jews out there, though, that are every bit as nutso as Evangelicals. Lots of them in the northeast, including entire communities where they avoid using the secular legal system in favor of their own corrupt courts.

Does that site you linked look at City or Metro population?  Most of Cleveland's jews no longer live in the City itself, but rather in the eastern suburbs.  There are significant jewish populations in Cleveland Heights, Shaker Heights, University Heights, Beachwood, and some of the other outer ring burbs along the I-271 corridor.  The Jewish population has continued to move eastwards after abandoning the Hough neighborhood.  This link below places Cleveland #7 in terms of top 30 Jewish cities and Cincy doesn't appear on it.  It probably doesn't hold true anymore, but I'm fairly certain at one point that Cleveland had the highest jew-per-capita population in the country outside of NYC.

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2010/12/01/americas-30-most-jewish-cities-from-new-york-to-miami-to-los-angeles.html#url=/articles/2010/12/01/americas-30-most-jewish-cities-from-new-york-to-miami-to-los-angeles.html

According to the Daily Beast list, you could have a pretty small Jewish population with a lot of kosher restaurants and rank high. So I'm not sure it's very definitive. (Especially since Reform Jews rarely keep kosher.) If you're counting kosher restaurants, surely you should give big points for the Hebrew Union College.

 

Anyway, the list gives Cleveland's Jewish population as 2.9%, while the site I linked to has it at 2.41%. So I'd think that both are using the same level of study, probably MSA, and the .49% difference is probably statistical noise (religious affiliation is a difficult thing to measure). At any rate, aside from NYC and Miami, I don't think Jews have a huge impact on the religious culture of any major American cities. They're just too small in number.

^You've never lived on the east side of Cleveland, which has two large orthodox jewish neighborhoods in Cleveland Heights and University Heights, as well as pretty much the entire City of Beachwood - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_population_by_urban_areas (Beachwood comes in #2 in terms of per capita jewish population in the world outside of Israel).  Keep in mind, also, that we are talking about "bible-mindedness" so I don't think we would count Cincy and Cleveland's non-practicing jewish populations, both of which are probably significant compared to those who actually go to temple.

I've definitely heard about Cleveland's Jewish population, and I know it's far and away the largest in the state.  I attended George Washington University for a bit, and about half of the school is Jewish and from NY or NJ.  When people found out I was from Ohio, if there was any sort of connection, it was almost always "I have an aunt/uncle in Shaker Heights/Cleveland".  Eastern Europeans have a dominant position in the ethnic makeup of NE Ohio, and the influence is seen with the prevalence of food, architecture, and religion. 

 

Cincinnati also has a very substantial Jewish population.  I grew up in the Evendale/Blue Ash area, and I think probably 50% of my neighborhood was Jewish.  Our Kroger (Blue Ash) has a full Kosher deli, Kosher bakery, and several aisles and freezers devoted to Kosher prepared foods. Our Starbucks is always open on Christmas, and Marx Bagels is definitely a destination for Jews (and just bagel lovers) across the region.  I do agree with natininja that our Jewish community is, for the most part, more assimilated into the larger community than elsewhere.  Again, if you look at the largest waves of immigration in Ohio, Cincinnati's largest period of growth was much earlier than Cleveland's, and our immigrants were mostly from Germany and Ireland.  We have a substantial amount of German Jews, but because they have been here so long, their identity is less pronounced.  We don't have many Kosher restaurants or Jewish delis, and our most Jewish neighborhood, Amberly Village, has no commercial space.  So even though there's like 5 synagogues, the JCC, Jewish Federation, etc. there is no commercial corridor aimed at the community.  Golf Manor, however, has a large Russian Jewish population that came in the 1980's, I believe.  I think that might have been the result of a relocation effort from one of the local orgs, but they are decidedly different than the community in Amberly. 

^You've never lived on the east side of Cleveland, which has two large orthodox jewish neighborhoods in Cleveland Heights and University Heights, as well as pretty much the entire City of Beachwood...

Wickliffe also.

I can't believe how the "analysis" in this last series of posts completely ignores one of the very largest groups with perhaps the strongest sense of religious identification, especially in the numbers found in Cleveland: African-Americans, who are, for the most part Baptist, with smaller representations among non-mainstream (evangelical) Protestant denominations. Or don't they count in this survey (or on this forum)? Not saying anyone is racist for ignoring them :|...but I have to wonder...

 

Yet another race card EVD?  If any of the "analysis" from your "perspective" ignores the religious affiliations of blacks, it might not be due to racism, but rather due to the fact that blacks are no more religious in any given City in this State than any other.  Maybe you have some stats which could inform us otherwise. 

^wow, it's worse than I thought; in addition to your statement making no sense. I'll just sign off from this thread until common sense can prevail.

I'll just sign off from this thread until common sense can prevail.

 

That would be of monumental assistance in achieving the desired result.

I can't believe how the "analysis" in this last series of posts completely ignores one of the very largest groups with perhaps the strongest sense of religious identification, especially in the numbers found in Cleveland: African-Americans, who are, for the most part Baptist, with smaller representations among non-mainstream (evangelical) Protestant denominations. Or don't they count in this survey (or on this forum)? Not saying anyone is racist for ignoring them :|...but I have to wonder...

 

Because we are discussing differences between the cities, and blacks are common between them. Cleveland does have a larger percentage of blacks, and I actually started to mention it in one of my posts, but I decided to focus on starker differences and deleted that part of my post. Cincinnati really doesn't have any Puerto Ricans to speak of, which is a real contrast.

 

There are plenty parts of (metro) Cincy with a big Jewish presence (especially suburbs like Amberly Village, Blue Ash, Wyoming), though they've left their mark (at least historically) on city neighborhoods, too, especially in the Reading Road corridor). The vast, vast majority are Reform Jews, though, so I guess you can argue they don't count, or that they would contribute to a lower ranking of Bible-mindedness. But I think Hebrew Union College is a significant institution in the local theological landscape. Probably the most significant institution, actually, as it's globally significant. Reform Jews might be liberal, but it wouldn't make sense to say the folks at HUC aren't Bible-minded.

I really like the updates on this thread. Let's try to keep it from getting locked again.

 

Here's a new list to get us off the topic of racism!

 

Cities with Best Reputation

 

The US only has one entry in this list of 25 (New York City).

 

Canada has 3 (Montreal, Toronto, and Vancouver).

 

Sydney is listed as the city with the best reputation.

 

Meanwhile the worst is listed as Baghdad.

 

I wonder if Pyongyang was in the running or if it was disqualified from consideration. I would think it would have won worst reputation, but maybe not.

I can't believe how the "analysis" in this last series of posts completely ignores one of the very largest groups with perhaps the strongest sense of religious identification, especially in the numbers found in Cleveland: African-Americans, who are, for the most part Baptist, with smaller representations among non-mainstream (evangelical) Protestant denominations. Or don't they count in this survey (or on this forum)? Not saying anyone is racist for ignoring them :|...but I have to wonder...

 

Because we are discussing differences between the cities, and blacks are common between them. Cleveland does have a larger percentage of blacks, and I actually started to mention it in one of my posts, but I decided to focus on starker differences and deleted that part of my post. Cincinnati really doesn't have any Puerto Ricans to speak of, which is a real contrast.

 

There are plenty parts of (metro) Cincy with a big Jewish presence (especially suburbs like Amberly Village, Blue Ash, Wyoming), though they've left their mark (at least historically) on city neighborhoods, too, especially in the Reading Road corridor). The vast, vast majority are Reform Jews, though, so I guess you can argue they don't count, or that they would contribute to a lower ranking of Bible-mindedness. But I think Hebrew Union College is a significant institution in the local theological landscape. Probably the most significant institution, actually, as it's globally significant. Reform Jews might be liberal, but it wouldn't make sense to say the folks at HUC aren't Bible-minded.

Thank you for your reasonable, non-hotheaded reply (I knew common sense would quickly return!). I guess my point was that since this was a survey of "Bible-mindedness" and the Black church (or maybe Black churches, so as not to paint with too broad a brush) generally adheres to a more stricter reading of Scripture than white mainstream (especially liberal) churches, and since the black population is so large in Ohio's big cities (subsequently representing a large chunk of the respondents in each city who are indeed Bible-minded); then it seemed odd that they would not have been included in the discussions (at least up until now) of this survey. Thank you for you clarification.

I can't believe how the "analysis" in this last series of posts completely ignores one of the very largest groups with perhaps the strongest sense of religious identification, especially in the numbers found in Cleveland: African-Americans, who are, for the most part Baptist, with smaller representations among non-mainstream (evangelical) Protestant denominations. Or don't they count in this survey (or on this forum)? Not saying anyone is racist for ignoring them :|...but I have to wonder...

 

Because we are discussing differences between the cities, and blacks are common between them. Cleveland does have a larger percentage of blacks, and I actually started to mention it in one of my posts, but I decided to focus on starker differences and deleted that part of my post. Cincinnati really doesn't have any Puerto Ricans to speak of, which is a real contrast.

 

There are plenty parts of (metro) Cincy with a big Jewish presence (especially suburbs like Amberly Village, Blue Ash, Wyoming), though they've left their mark (at least historically) on city neighborhoods, too, especially in the Reading Road corridor). The vast, vast majority are Reform Jews, though, so I guess you can argue they don't count, or that they would contribute to a lower ranking of Bible-mindedness. But I think Hebrew Union College is a significant institution in the local theological landscape. Probably the most significant institution, actually, as it's globally significant. Reform Jews might be liberal, but it wouldn't make sense to say the folks at HUC aren't Bible-minded.

Thank you for your reasonable, non-hotheaded reply (I knew common sense would quickly return!). I guess my point was that since this was a survey of "Bible-mindedness" and the Black church (or maybe Black churches, so as not to paint with too broad a brush) generally adheres to a more stricter reading of Scripture than white mainstream (especially liberal) churches, and since the black population is so large in Ohio's big cities (subsequently representing a large chunk of the respondents in each city who are indeed Bible-minded); then it seemed odd that they would not have been included in the discussions (at least up until now) of this survey. Thank you for you clarification.

 

I agree, the AA community is a major contributor to "Bible-mindedness" (I'm getting tired of that word) in all of Ohio's cities. Toledo has a relatively low proportion of blacks, which may contribute to its low rank in that study.

Thank you for your reasonable, non-hotheaded reply (I knew common sense would quickly return!). I guess my point was that since this was a survey of "Bible-mindedness" and the Black church (or maybe Black churches, so as not to paint with too broad a brush) generally adheres to a more stricter reading of Scripture than white mainstream (especially liberal) churches, and since the black population is so large in Ohio's big cities (subsequently representing a large chunk of the respondents in each city who are indeed Bible-minded); then it seemed odd that they would not have been included in the discussions (at least up until now) of this survey. Thank you for you clarification.

I'm not sure I agree that black churches subscribe to a stricter reading of scripture, but regardless from my point of view, church attendance and bible mindedness tend to go hand in hand with poverty.

I really like the updates on this thread. Let's try to keep it from getting locked again.

 

Here's a new list to get us off the topic of racism!

 

Cities with Best Reputation

 

The US only has one entry in this list of 25 (New York City).

 

Canada has 3 (Montreal, Toronto, and Vancouver).

 

Sydney is listed as the city with the best reputation.

 

Meanwhile the worst is listed as Baghdad.

 

I wonder if Pyongyang was in the running or if it was disqualified from consideration. I would think it would have won worst reputation, but maybe not.

 

From what I've heard, Pyongyang, as the seat of the North Korean ruling class, is actually somewhat modern.  Of course, its stature comes by looting the entire rest of a country about the size of Mississippi.  Pyongyang would tank in a hurry if the North Korean regime were seriously destabilized.

Thank you for your reasonable, non-hotheaded reply (I knew common sense would quickly return!). I guess my point was that since this was a survey of "Bible-mindedness" and the Black church (or maybe Black churches, so as not to paint with too broad a brush) generally adheres to a more stricter reading of Scripture than white mainstream (especially liberal) churches, and since the black population is so large in Ohio's big cities (subsequently representing a large chunk of the respondents in each city who are indeed Bible-minded); then it seemed odd that they would not have been included in the discussions (at least up until now) of this survey. Thank you for you clarification.

I'm not sure I agree that black churches subscribe to a stricter reading of scripture, but regardless from my point of view, church attendance and bible mindedness tend to go hand in hand with poverty.

this is because people in poverty are more likely to retain a spirit of humility than those who aren't.

Thank you for your reasonable, non-hotheaded reply (I knew common sense would quickly return!). I guess my point was that since this was a survey of "Bible-mindedness" and the Black church (or maybe Black churches, so as not to paint with too broad a brush) generally adheres to a more stricter reading of Scripture than white mainstream (especially liberal) churches, and since the black population is so large in Ohio's big cities (subsequently representing a large chunk of the respondents in each city who are indeed Bible-minded); then it seemed odd that they would not have been included in the discussions (at least up until now) of this survey. Thank you for you clarification.

I'm not sure I agree that black churches subscribe to a stricter reading of scripture, but regardless from my point of view, church attendance and bible mindedness tend to go hand in hand with poverty.

this is because people in poverty are more likely to retain a spirit of humility than those who aren't.

 

You're basically calling nonreligious people arrogant. Isn't it humble to think you don't have access to the knowledge of whatever the higher purpose of life might be? Or to imagine yourself to be insignificant in the grand scheme, as opposed to being someone that some all-powerful being actually gives a sh!t about?

I'm nonreligious and arrogant ...

Well you're special.

^ Come on, you can be more inclusive.

 

36. Dayton

45. Cincinnati

47. Columbus

50. Cleveland

88. Toledo

 

And these are ranks for "Bible-mindedness," not Godlessness. So Toledo would be (by far) the most "Godless," with Cleveland, Columbus, and Cincy lumped together, and Dayton the most Bible-minded city in the state.

 

I think it's interesting how the 3Cs often are lumped together in lists like this. Perhaps they are more culturally similar than we recognize.

 

Toledo can be a pretty Godless place. Despite almost everyone being Catholic, it has the ghetto version of the political sphere you find in San Francisco (actually SF is getting conservative compared to the Glass City- Toledo is more Oakland). Toledo became every man for himself with no shame...not exactly the teachings of Jesus.

 

People in Toledo may still identify as Catholic, but most don't go to church and only support the Parish during binge drinking street fairs. :drunk:

 

And not surprised at all to see Salt Lake as a top 20 most Godless. It's overrun by hipsters! As boring as SLC is for a big city, most of the kids there only worry about hipster things.

 

And San Francisco and Boston in the top five most Godless? Makes perfect sense to me. This list has a lot of credibility!

http://www.walkscore.com/cities-and-neighborhoods/

Thank you for your reasonable, non-hotheaded reply (I knew common sense would quickly return!). I guess my point was that since this was a survey of "Bible-mindedness" and the Black church (or maybe Black churches, so as not to paint with too broad a brush) generally adheres to a more stricter reading of Scripture than white mainstream (especially liberal) churches, and since the black population is so large in Ohio's big cities (subsequently representing a large chunk of the respondents in each city who are indeed Bible-minded); then it seemed odd that they would not have been included in the discussions (at least up until now) of this survey. Thank you for you clarification.

I'm not sure I agree that black churches subscribe to a stricter reading of scripture, but regardless from my point of view, church attendance and bible mindedness tend to go hand in hand with poverty.

this is because people in poverty are more likely to retain a spirit of humility than those who aren't.

 

You're basically calling nonreligious people arrogant. Isn't it humble to think you don't have access to the knowledge of whatever the higher purpose of life might be? Or to imagine yourself to be insignificant in the grand scheme, as opposed to being someone that some all-powerful being actually gives a sh!t about?

oh stop :roll:. that only applies to Gramarye :laugh: (like his admission was some kind of newsflash! :wink:)

http://www.walkscore.com/cities-and-neighborhoods/

 

There is some inconsistency on that site.  If you look up Cleveland and scroll down to the neighborhoods, downtown gets an 87.  But if you search specifically for Downtown Cleveland, the score is 92.  I wonder how much the new Heinen's being built downtown is going to boost the score.  I know walkscore gives a lot of consideration to grocery stores or the lack thereof.  Same thing happnes for Cincy's downtown, which goes up from 91 to 97 when you search for it specifically.

 

Chagrin Falls, BTW, gets a 94 on the whole.  I wonder what the highest scoring city in Ohio is.

Walkscore still needs to get better data.  They are sending me to the salt mine on Whiskey Island for groceries, or to Sherwin Williams corporate offices for hardware.  I applaud the concept, but they aren't new and should have figured out the data better by now.

Chagrin Falls, BTW, gets a 94 on the whole.  I wonder what the highest scoring city in Ohio is.

 

Probably some dink town in SE Ohio that is self-contained/self-reliant because there's else nearby.

I really like the updates on this thread. Let's try to keep it from getting locked again.

 

Here's a new list to get us off the topic of racism!

 

Cities with Best Reputation

 

The US only has one entry in this list of 25 (New York City).

 

Canada has 3 (Montreal, Toronto, and Vancouver).

 

Sydney is listed as the city with the best reputation.

 

Meanwhile the worst is listed as Baghdad.

 

I wonder if Pyongyang was in the running or if it was disqualified from consideration. I would think it would have won worst reputation, but maybe not.

Toronto has got to be the most overrated city in the world. (at least in North America)

I wonder what the highest scoring city in Ohio is.

 

I would bet Yellow Springs ranks fairly high.  They have almost everything (including grocery, movie theater, hardware store) in the little town center.

 

edit: they have a score of 84.

Toronto has got to be the most overrated city in the world. (at least in North America)

 

I've never been, but I've heard good things.  Why do you say that? I love Montreal and Vancouver, but I find it hard to believe that 3 Canadian cities have better reputations globally than all but NYC.  San Francisco? DC? Miami?

Toronto has got to be the most overrated city in the world. (at least in North America)

 

I've never been, but I've heard good things.  Why do you say that? I love Montreal and Vancouver, but I find it hard to believe that 3 Canadian cities have better reputations globally than all but NYC.  San Francisco? DC? Miami?

 

I have to completely disagree with you eastvillagedon. Toronto is an amazing city. Not only is their downtown great and growing, they have a ton of great neighborhoods, all connected by streetcars and subways. Biking is huge there as well and the city is extremely pedestrian friendly and active at all hours/days.

 

Not sure if you have ever been there, but check out Queen St West, St Lawrence Market, The Distillery District, Chinatown, Koreatown, University, Bloor St West, Yorkville, Rosedale, Young st,  and Kensington Market (a neighborhood, not a single building market) just to name a few.

 

Toronto has a lot of amazing old architecture, and their commercial streets are largely, if not all intact. Their storefronts are full and diverse, and ethnic communities can be found all over the city. In addition to the old, Toronto is growing rapidly, with new glass condo towers adding to an already great skyline. It has more high rises under construction than any other city in North America with 130 currently under construction. 48.6% of Toronto's population is foreign born, which shows how much the city attracts immigrants. It really is a global city and one of the most multicultural cities in the world.

 

You can pretty much find anything you could possibly want within the city. The neighborhoods are full of local small business which offer endless sorts of shopping as well as food. The city also has a lot of high-high end shopping which is found on Bloor Street, many major department stores, and chains you'd find at beachwood place and other malls located on lower Yonge street.

 

Add in the fact that it has extremely low crime, especially compared to US cities and it is on the top of my list. The "ghetto" of Toronto is at the edge of the city which is developed like sprawl, and even that is nowhere close to the "ghettos" of america.

 

In 2013 Toronto had 18 homicides. Chicago had 415. Not even close, and Toronto is the larger city. Cleveland had 84 and only has 390,928 residents. Toronto has 2,791,140. At that rate, if Cleveland was the size of Toronto, it would have 599 homicides.

Toronto has got to be the most overrated city in the world. (at least in North America)

 

I've never been, but I've heard good things.  Why do you say that? I love Montreal and Vancouver, but I find it hard to believe that 3 Canadian cities have better reputations globally than all but NYC.  San Francisco? DC? Miami?

I'm not saying it's not a great city with lots of things to do with safe streets, good transportation, etc. and well worth visiting. But it's just that because so much of the place was built in the last few decades that it looks so depressingly new, with too much of the archictecture lacking much distinction, resulting in a kind of overall blandness aesthetically. I just think the way all those surveys and studies go on and on about what a superior city it is is a little much.

Walkscore still needs to get better data.  They are sending me to the salt mine on Whiskey Island for groceries, or to Sherwin Williams corporate offices for hardware.  I applaud the concept, but they aren't new and should have figured out the data better by now.

 

I agree.  The transit score needs to be calibrated, too.  There are a lot of places reachable in a half hour via the Rapid or buses that don't show up on their little map.

Toronto has got to be the most overrated city in the world. (at least in North America)

 

I've never been, but I've heard good things.  Why do you say that? I love Montreal and Vancouver, but I find it hard to believe that 3 Canadian cities have better reputations globally than all but NYC.  San Francisco? DC? Miami?

 

I have to completely disagree with you eastvillagedon. Toronto is an amazing city. Not only is their downtown great and growing, they have a ton of great neighborhoods, all connected by streetcars and subways. Biking is huge there as well and the city is extremely pedestrian friendly and active at all hours/days.

 

Not sure if you have ever been there, but check out Queen St West, St Lawrence Market, The Distillery District, Chinatown, Koreatown, University, Bloor St West, Yorkville, Rosedale, Young st,  and Kensington Market (a neighborhood, not a single building market) just to name a few.

 

Toronto has a lot of amazing old architecture, and their commercial streets are largely, if not all intact. Their storefronts are full and diverse, and ethnic communities can be found all over the city. In addition to the old, Toronto is growing rapidly, with new glass condo towers adding to an already great skyline. It has more high rises under construction than any other city in North America with 130 currently under construction. 48.6% of Toronto's population is foreign born, which shows how much the city attracts immigrants. It really is a global city and one of the most multicultural cities in the world.

 

You can pretty much find anything you could possibly want within the city. The neighborhoods are full of local small business which offer endless sorts of shopping as well as food. The city also has a lot of high-high end shopping which is found on Bloor Street, many major department stores, and chains you'd find at beachwood place and other malls located on lower Yonge street.

 

Add in the fact that it has extremely low crime, especially compared to US cities and it is on the top of my list. The "ghetto" of Toronto is at the edge of the city which is developed like sprawl, and even that is nowhere close to the "ghettos" of america.

 

In 2013 Toronto had 18 homicides. Chicago had 415. Not even close, and Toronto is the larger city. Cleveland had 84 and only has 390,928 residents. Toronto has 2,791,140. At that rate, if Cleveland was the size of Toronto, it would have 599 homicides.

actually the population number you cited of 2.7 million is, I believe, what is officially Metropolitan Toronto, which includes the municipalities of Etobicoke, Mississauga, etc. It's as if you took most of Cuyahoga Co. and officially incorporated it as "Cleveland") They've had this form of government for decades. I've had family there for...(well, forever!) and I remember there being is a core "City of Toronto" that's is geographically about the size of Cleveland (in land area, anyway; probably more in population). Nevertheless, you're correct that the murder rate is much, much lower than it's ever been in American cities.

 

actually the population number you cited of 2.7 million is, I believe, what is officially Metropolitan Toronto, which includes the municipalities of Etobicoke, Mississauga, etc. It's as if you took most of Cuyahoga Co. and officially incorporated it as "Cleveland") They've had this form of government for decades. I've had family there for...(well, forever!) and I remember there being is a core "City of Toronto" that's is geographically about the size of Cleveland (in land area, anyway; probably more in population). Nevertheless, you're correct that the murder rate is much, much lower than it's ever been in American cities.

 

The Greater Toronto area has 5.5 million people. Etobicoke is a part of the city of Toronto and is included in the population/homicide numbers. Mississauga is not, and is not included in any statistics.

 

Old Toronto (37.51 square miles) where the core of the city is, had 6 homicides. In 2011 the population was 736,775.

 

actually the population number you cited of 2.7 million is, I believe, what is officially Metropolitan Toronto, which includes the municipalities of Etobicoke, Mississauga, etc. It's as if you took most of Cuyahoga Co. and officially incorporated it as "Cleveland") They've had this form of government for decades. I've had family there for...(well, forever!) and I remember there being is a core "City of Toronto" that's is geographically about the size of Cleveland (in land area, anyway; probably more in population). Nevertheless, you're correct that the murder rate is much, much lower than it's ever been in American cities.

 

The Greater Toronto area has 5.5 million people. Etobicoke is a part of the city of Toronto and is included in the population/homicide numbers. Mississauga is not, and is not included in any statistics.

you're right, my mistake, Mississauga is not part of it. My point was there is (or at least was) a historic "City of Toronto" roughly the same size as the City of Cleveland at one point, which became part of Metro Toronto (along with Etobicoke, North York, and Scarborough and I think some others (?) in 1954; so it wasn't really a fair comparison of murder rates between Cleve and Metro Toronto. That said, yes, the rate in Toronto is still ridiculously low.

 

actually the population number you cited of 2.7 million is, I believe, what is officially Metropolitan Toronto, which includes the municipalities of Etobicoke, Mississauga, etc. It's as if you took most of Cuyahoga Co. and officially incorporated it as "Cleveland") They've had this form of government for decades. I've had family there for...(well, forever!) and I remember there being is a core "City of Toronto" that's is geographically about the size of Cleveland (in land area, anyway; probably more in population). Nevertheless, you're correct that the murder rate is much, much lower than it's ever been in American cities.

 

The Greater Toronto area has 5.5 million people. Etobicoke is a part of the city of Toronto and is included in the population/homicide numbers. Mississauga is not, and is not included in any statistics.

so it wasn't really a fair comparison of murder rates between Cleve and Metro Toronto. That said, yes, the rate in Toronto is still ridiculously low.

I added to my last post the population of old toronto. You must have quoted it before I added it.

 

Even so, the difference is not much between Old Toronto and Toronto.

 

Cleveland 21.49 homicides per 100,000

Old Toronto 0.81 homicides per 100,000

Toronto 0.64 homicides per 100,000

Toronto has got to be the most overrated city in the world. (at least in North America)

 

Strongly disagree with this. It's the only other city in North America as diverse as Los Angeles and New York, and Old Toronto is excellent without a car.

 

It's also safe and clean as hell, safer and cleaner than any first tier American city. It's also way cheaper than places like San Francisco and Manhattan. Basically bang for buck is pretty high. As high as in Montreal? Hell no, but you still get more for your money than you do in San Francisco and New York. Its global reputation is well-earned. I'd consider moving there if it didn't have that damn Great Lakes winter...ditto with Montreal.

 

If anything, I suspect Vancouver is overrated. Its rents are ridiculous, but I don't think you get much more than you would in Seattle. I guess I have to visit.

San Francisco? DC? Miami?

 

SF and DC are overrated. They're great cities, but SF is loaded with homeless meth addicts, is very dirty, and petty crime/auto break-ins are still a huge problem (check out insurance rates in SF and Oakland). It's also overrun by snobby hipsters. It still has world class places like Nob Hill, North Beach, Russian Hill, and Pacific Heights, but they're the minority of the city, not the majority. Old San Francisco is shrinking fast, and as a result SF is way too overpriced for what you get. If you live in Nob Hill, it's the best place in America. If you don't, you're getting scammed. The way to do SF was to move there five years ago and have new kids pay your rent/mortgage.

 

DC is overpriced too. It suffers from the same problem that SF and Boston suffer- NIMBYism driving up rents and pushing out minorities, natives, families, etc. A lot of America's first tier cities are no longer the diverse, cosmopolitan meccas they used to be. New York and LA are holding on the longest, if only due to the fact they're big enough to absorb gentrification.

 

I can't speak for Miami, but I've heard nothing but good things. I've heard it's basically the girls of LA with even better nightlife...

 

The real surprise for me is that Chicago is not on this list. It deserves to be. It's sort of a more violent Toronto with better housing...

 

When you balance rents versus quality of life, Chicago is America's best city by a big margin. Just don't tell Californians that. :wink:

In 2013 Toronto had 18 homicides. Chicago had 415. Not even close, and Toronto is the larger city. Cleveland had 84 and only has 390,928 residents. Toronto has 2,791,140. At that rate, if Cleveland was the size of Toronto, it would have 599 homicides.

 

Where are you getting your numbers?  Yes, Toronto has a low crime rate, but not nearly as low as you're claiming:

 

http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/statistics/ytd_stats.php

 

In 2013, Toronto had 56 homicides, not 18.

I'm on my phone so this won't be a full response, but I saw 18 in a couple of news articles.

 

My bad. Still very low though for a city that size.