November 23, 201014 yr Are we past the period of the "rust belt" liablility? This recession does not seem as bad as the 1980s. "The cities that have continued to underperform rely on jobs from lagging industries such as manufacturing, tourism and construction," Cruickshank says.
November 23, 201014 yr This piece of garbage publication is about as credible as Faux News... and it deserves to be on the top 10 worst information sources list. I think there must be people sitting around their offices with nothing better to do than to regurgitate this same old archaic repeated and tired nonsensical list crap.
November 23, 201014 yr I still think it lends credence that people within Forbes have some unexplainable axe grind against Cleveland since they managed to put a picture of Cleveland under the negative headline. Exactly, further proof, no other explanation..
November 23, 201014 yr It's a cool shot of downtown - interesting angle. I almost didn't recognize it
November 23, 201014 yr It's a cool shot of downtown - interesting angle. I almost didn't recognize it That is the view from within several Pinnacle units.
November 23, 201014 yr Funny thing about the Pinnacle bulding - I went to a Halloween party at one of the upper suites in '09 there, and the host actually hired prostitutes! People were also doing blow in the bathroom of what had to be a $750g condo! Crazy scene, as i've never been to a party like that.
November 23, 201014 yr Funny thing about the Pinnacle bulding - I went to a Halloween party at one of the upper suites in '09 there, and the host actually hired prostitutes! People were also doing blow in the bathroom of what had to be a $750g condo! Crazy scene, as i've never been to a party like that. Hired prostitutes? Blow? (Do people still use that to describe coke?) Don't get out from the 'burbs much. God, you must lead a sheltered life.
November 23, 201014 yr Funny thing about the Pinnacle bulding - I went to a Halloween party at one of the upper suites in '09 there, and the host actually hired prostitutes! People were also doing blow in the bathroom of what had to be a $750g condo! Crazy scene, as i've never been to a party like that. fyi, The more expensive a place gets, the more frequent this scene is.
November 23, 201014 yr Has anyone here ever wrote to this publication about these lists always showcasing Cleveland in the negative light?
November 23, 201014 yr Has anyone here ever wrote to this publication about these lists always showcasing Cleveland in the negative light? YES!
November 23, 201014 yr Are we past the period of the "rust belt" liablility? This recession does not seem as bad as the 1980s. "The cities that have continued to underperform rely on jobs from lagging industries such as manufacturing, tourism and construction," Cruickshank says. This guy's quote is interesting because last I heard, manufacturing was supposed to be leading us out of the recession.
November 23, 201014 yr Brookings Institute provides a not so dumb interactive map sortable by commute, education, population etc... pretty nice if you have patience to wait for the applet to process http://www.brookings.edu/metro/StateOfMetroAmerica/Map.aspx#/?subject=4&ind=29&dist=1_0&data=Percent&year=2009&geo=metro&zoom=0&x=0&y=0
December 10, 201014 yr This is an old list but I just love what Forbes does to Cleveland Look at all the other cities pictures and then look at the picture Cleveland gets. Special Treatment. http://www.forbes.com/2009/03/19/downsized-cities-population-lifestyle-real-estate-cities_slide_2.html
December 14, 201014 yr I honestly dont think I could live without these wonderful lists <b>Where Home Prices Are Falling Dangerously</b> Of America's largest urban housing markets, Cleveland seems to be deteriorating the most. Home prices in Cleveland dropped a frightening 3% in September alone, according to S&P/Case-Shiller, and are now 1.9% lower than they were a year ago. Like much of the rest of Ohio, Cleveland hasn't found replacements for the manufacturing jobs lost over the past decade starting from the 2001 recession. The unemployment rate in Cuyahoga County, which includes Cleveland, was 9.2% in April. These days it's at 9.7%... http://www.forbes.com/2010/12/10/cleveland-minneapolis-chicago-housing-business-washington-home-prices.html
December 14, 201014 yr Well I hope you guys are contacting Forbes editors and setting them straight on the facts about Cleveland. You're not just commenting here, you are calling out their inaccuracies....aren't you? :?
December 14, 201014 yr New Orleans has worst housing vacancy rate; Buffalo is seventh-worst Business First - by G. Scott Thomas Date: Tuesday, December 14, 2010, 1:18pm EST The City of Buffalo has the seventh-worst housing vacancy rate among America's major cities, according to figures released Tuesday by the U.S. Census Bureau. New Orleans (at 21.5 percent) is saddled with the worst vacancy rate in the study group. The other cities that have worse rates than Buffalo are St. Louis, Detroit, Cincinnati, Baltimore, and Cleveland. http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/datacenter/housing-statistics-for-9975-us-cities.html The link is interesting in that you can search by state or city and see the number and percentage of vacant homes in that area. For Ohio 3 C's rank as follows: Cincinnati - 175,343 residences, 31,969 of which are vacant, for a 18.2% vacancy rate Cleveland - 229,811 residences, 40,304 of which are vacant, for a 17.5% vacancy rate Columbus - 367,419 residences, 46,952 of which are vacant, for a 12.75 vacancy rate
December 16, 201014 yr Vincent Valk at Next American City just wrote a pretty good piece about the publication of city rankings for various and sundry measures: http://americancity.org/magazine/article/list-o-mania/ Accompanying weblog post: http://americancity.org/buzz/entry/2801/ My favorite quote from the article: The question may be beside the point, as sorting and listing cities is big business. Kiplinger’s Personal Finance, which does an annual ranking of cities with a different theme — in 2010 it was “The Best Cities for the Next Decade” — gets a lot of publicity for its lists. They are among the magazine’s most popular features and generate high Web traffic, Kiplinger’s senior editor Bob Frick says. The University of Toronto’s Martin Prosperity Institute, home of “creative class” guru Richard Florida, is another big purveyor of city lists. Kevin Stolarick, a demographer at the Prosperity Institute who has worked with Kiplinger’s on several lists, agrees that publicity is a big driver. “We’re going to be media whores,” Stolarick says, explaining that the Prosperity Institute’s real aim is to raise awareness of its broader work and make sure that work reaches decision-makers.
December 19, 201014 yr I just caught a glimpse of it and did not read it because I have learned to avoid these mostly ridiculous rankings, but Yahoo had an article today about "10 worst states in which to retire".... I just would guess that they had to place Ohio on that list. Did I guess correctly or not? :|
December 20, 201014 yr I just caught a glimpse of it and did not read it because I have learned to avoid these mostly ridiculous rankings, but Yahoo had an article today about "10 worst states in which to retire".... I just would guess that they had to place Ohio on that list. Did I guess correctly or not? :| We're number 6 !! yay !
December 20, 201014 yr See! I could have predicted it so easily without even reading it. I wonder if those who wrote the article have ever lived here or traveled the state corner to corner, crevice to crevice...or know anything else about it other than the fact that we, like other northern states, get a winter....a hard hit for a few weeks out of 4 months, give or take, out of the year? These lists are so pathetically predictable.
December 21, 201014 yr I'll ask again. Have any of you emailed the editor of the magazine and/or author of the article?
December 21, 201014 yr Adding the other big cities, for vacancy: Dayton: 18.86% Youngstown: 17.45% Toledo: 11.61% Akron: 11.22% ......................The integrated list (vacancies): Dayton: 18.86% Cincy: 18.2% Cleveland: 17.5% Youngstown: 17.45% Columbus: 12.75% Toledo: 11.61% Akron: 11.22% ....again, Akron is appearing as a place that is bucking the trend toward an increasing emptying out of urban Ohio. Perhaps the suprise here is Cincinnati appearing so high on the list. Maybe not if one is familiar how empty OTR and nearby areas are, partially due to 3CDC buying up stuff and holding blocks of empty buildings, partly due to things really being bad with abandoned or vacant housing elsewhere in the city. I didn't think the situation was at the same crisis level as Dayton, though.
December 21, 201014 yr As far as stupid lists go, I think this one was at least somewhat coherent. While I'm not surprised that Ohio would make a list of cold states lol, I think the real issue is more bad publicity for California. Imagine a state with all of its universities, famed and beautiful cities, great history, a tourist mecca with stunning vistas, busy ports, hundreds of miles of beaches, cutting edge technology sector and a wealth of natural resources that far surpass most countries....and somehow that state is in financial ruin! If there was ever a more obvious, more damning example of a dysfunctional government, it is California. I just caught a glimpse of it and did not read it because I have learned to avoid these mostly ridiculous rankings, but Yahoo had an article today about "10 worst states in which to retire".... I just would guess that they had to place Ohio on that list. Did I guess correctly or not? :|
December 21, 201014 yr http://www.forbes.com/2010/12/16/best-cities-jobs-hiring-leadership-careers-employment.html Best and Worst cities for finding a job.... allegedly. None of the 3 C's made either of the lists. But Akron and Toledo made the "worst cities" list, with Akron tying for the top spot (I guess NCAA soccer isn't the only thing they can claim that for). On the bright side, and I mean the really bright side.... Youngstown came in at #4 on the "best cities" list. I prefer to be selective with believing and discrediting these rankings. I'm not buying Akron's low ranking, but I'm fully on board with Forbes gushing all over the Y!
December 21, 201014 yr I'll ask again. Have any of you emailed the editor of the magazine and/or author of the article? Yes, dozens of times just like you!
December 22, 201014 yr Best and Worst cities for finding a job.... allegedly. None of the 3 C's made either of the lists. But Akron and Toledo made the "worst cities" list, with Akron tying for the top spot (I guess NCAA soccer isn't the only thing they can claim that for). On the bright side, and I mean the really bright side.... Youngstown came in at #4 on the "best cities" list. Toledo has been horrendous for nearly five straight years, so no surprise (the problems existed way before the nationwide recession began). Not only is it a bad city to find a job, it also posted some of the sharpest income declines in America over the past decade. I'm shocked at Akron considering it was one of the state's top economic performers for most of the decade. I guess it ran out of steam. And I have serious doubts about Youngstown. It got hit incredibly hard by the recession, and its peak unemployment (U-3) went slightly higher than Toledo (I think they both peaked around 15%). I'm not sure about U-6 though. I suppose it is possible it hit bottom, something that is still arguable in Toledo (lots of people dropped out of the labor market, so numbers are fuzzy). I just think all the losses in 2008 and 2009 have flooded the market with experienced applicants. It's unlikely Youngstown is an easy place to find a job. It's nice to see the media stroking, but I think they're ignoring what has happened over the past decade. While net labor force growth/decline numbers are important to look at, they don't tell the whole story. They need to look at what types of jobs are growing in these markets (temp, full-time, low wage slavery, etc.), and also look at existing competition in the market. You could have one city with 20% U-6 unemployment expect 2% job growth being much harder to find a job in than a city with 10% U-6 unemployment that is expecting net job losses. And this all goes by sector. In any market area, there will be growth areas and death areas. It's best for people to research their field in each market. You could move to a place with low unemployment where two kingpins in your field just merged, and your competition will be incredibly fierce due to the resulting firings/layoffs. Numbers only tell half the story. Some places are much worse than their numbers indicate (you could probably argue that for Toledo, Dayton, most of core Rust Belt, and hell, the whole nation of Great Britain), while others are much better.
December 22, 201014 yr And I have serious doubts about Youngstown. It got hit incredibly hard by the recession, and its peak unemployment (U-3) went slightly higher than Toledo (I think they both peaked around 15%). I'm not sure about U-6 though. I suppose it is possible it hit bottom, something that is still arguable in Toledo (lots of people dropped out of the labor market, so numbers are fuzzy). I just think all the losses in 2008 and 2009 have flooded the market with experienced applicants. It's unlikely Youngstown is an easy place to find a job. It's nice to see the media stroking, but I think they're ignoring what has happened over the past decade. I think you need to visit the Youngstown general business thread to see why Youngstown ranked #4 on the list. I'm not saying it deserved that exact ranking, but I am saying it deserves a high ranking. The amount of jobs created in Youngstown in the past year or so is nothing short of remarkable -- 11,250 to 18,000 new jobs that have come or are coming to the region...... http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,8297.msg469148.html#msg469148. Also see this thread..... http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,9063.180.html "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
December 22, 201014 yr Best and Worst cities for finding a job.... allegedly. None of the 3 C's made either of the lists. But Akron and Toledo made the "worst cities" list, with Akron tying for the top spot (I guess NCAA soccer isn't the only thing they can claim that for). On the bright side, and I mean the really bright side.... Youngstown came in at #4 on the "best cities" list. Toledo has been horrendous for nearly five straight years, so no surprise (the problems existed way before the nationwide recession began). Not only is it a bad city to find a job, it also posted some of the sharpest income declines in America over the past decade. I'm shocked at Akron considering it was one of the state's top economic performers for most of the decade. I guess it ran out of steam. And I have serious doubts about Youngstown. It got hit incredibly hard by the recession, and its peak unemployment (U-3) went slightly higher than Toledo (I think they both peaked around 15%). I'm not sure about U-6 though. I suppose it is possible it hit bottom, something that is still arguable in Toledo (lots of people dropped out of the labor market, so numbers are fuzzy). I just think all the losses in 2008 and 2009 have flooded the market with experienced applicants. It's unlikely Youngstown is an easy place to find a job. It's nice to see the media stroking, but I think they're ignoring what has happened over the past decade. While net labor force growth/decline numbers are important to look at, they don't tell the whole story. They need to look at what types of jobs are growing in these markets (temp, full-time, low wage slavery, etc.), and also look at existing competition in the market. You could have one city with 20% U-6 unemployment expect 2% job growth being much harder to find a job in than a city with 10% U-6 unemployment that is expecting net job losses. And this all goes by sector. In any market area, there will be growth areas and death areas. It's best for people to research their field in each market. You could move to a place with low unemployment where two kingpins in your field just merged, and your competition will be incredibly fierce due to the resulting firings/layoffs. Numbers only tell half the story. Some places are much worse than their numbers indicate (you could probably argue that for Toledo, Dayton, most of core Rust Belt, and hell, the whole nation of Great Britain), while others are much better. The rebound of NE Ohio ahead of the rest of the state has been because of growth in areas such as manufacturing and health care. While some of those jobs are low paying they certainly aren't mostly Wal-Mart jobs. And there have been plenty of jobs added this year: 40000 in the Cleveland MSA alone. Again, the types of jobs are in black and white right here: www.bls.gov "Areas at a Glance" With Pittsburgh, Milwaukee and St. Louis recovering better than the nation, the "Rust Belt" is only rusting at its' buckle: Detroit. To be honest, almighty Chicago isn't doing that hot either. I'm not saying times are easy and certainly NE Ohio has lagged behind the rest of the state for about 4 decades until this recovery but at some point things change, like now. :D
December 22, 201014 yr With Pittsburgh, Milwaukee and St. Louis recovering better than the nation, the "Rust Belt" is only rusting at its' buckle: Detroit. To be honest, almighty Chicago isn't doing that hot either. Pittsburgh hasn't been Rust Belt in 20 years! When talking core Rust Belt, I'm talking Detroit, Toledo, Dayton, Flint, Canton, Lima, Mansfield, a good chunk of upstate New York, and maybe Akron too. I'm not talking about fancy places like Cleveland and St. Louis. St. Louis is very fringe, and hit bottom a long time ago. Cleveland hit bottom in this recent recession and has had a remarkable recovery. I would no longer call Cleveland "Rust Belt." Five years ago? Yes. Today? No. It's Recovery Belt.
January 4, 201114 yr Im not sure if this has been posted but its from forbes in 2009. Cincinnati and Cleveland make the top 10! America's Safest Cities http://www.forbes.com/2009/10/26/safest-cities-ten-lifestyle-real-estate-metros-msa_chart.html
January 4, 201114 yr Im not sure if this has been posted but its from forbes in 2009. Cincinnati and Cleveland make the top 10! America's Safest Cities http://www.forbes.com/2009/10/26/safest-cities-ten-lifestyle-real-estate-metros-msa_chart.html See, I told you these lists are such smart, insightful pieces of research!! :wink2: "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
January 4, 201114 yr Ugh, the "methodology" they used should cause anyone who passed Statistics 101 to get a migraine headache.
January 11, 201114 yr Check out the undervalued list! America's most overvalued - and undervalued - cities http://money.cnn.com/2011/01/10/real_estate/overvalued_housing_markets/index.htm?source=cnn_bin&hpt=Sbin
January 13, 201114 yr Holy fucking crap, just read this http://realestate.yahoo.com/promo/snowiest-cities-in-america.html <b>Snowiest Cities in America Denver is king, but there are pretenders to the throne</b> Pity poor Clevelanders, especially during the winter. No hockey, no more LeBron James and, to top it all off, more snow than almost every major metro area in the U.S. The winds of Lake Erie pushing storms over the city drop an average of 59.3 inches of snow onto Cleveland each winter, according to historical data from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA). It's enough to make Cleveland the second snowiest major city in the U.S., just a couple of flakes behind Denver, which just tops 60 inches annually. But at least Denver boasts a claim as a gateway to a winter wonderland, with picturesque mountains and first-class skiing just a few miles away....
January 13, 201114 yr Ha! The one time that excluding the metro area data would benefit us, they included it.
January 13, 201114 yr Wow, they're not even trying to fudge the numbers, just flat out lie/error/ignorance. "People seem to associate more snow with Buffalo, but the other side of Lake Erie gets smacked just as much."
January 13, 201114 yr Forbes of course. I love the tone he gives us compared to other cities. We are just ugly boring nothing to do and miserable with snow while the other cities with snow are winter wonderland, beautiful, active, and a winters paradise. I agree with you TBideon with the statement to the author
January 13, 201114 yr "People seem to associate more snow with Buffalo, but the other side of Lake Erie gets smacked just as much." Bullsh!t. Toledo gets half as much snow as Buffalo. Toledo's weather is comparable to Detroit and Chicago. Buffalo has much worse winters, and the snow season is usually a month or two longer. Forbes really did pull that line out of their ass. The majority of winds on the Great Lakes blow west-east, so lake effect isn't as dramatic in Milwaukee, Chicago, Toledo, and Detroit as it is in Cleveland, Buffalo, and Rochester. In Toledo, we only get lake effect in larger and more freakish systems. We are just ugly boring nothing to do and miserable with snow while the other cities with snow are winter wonderland, beautiful, active, and a winters paradise. Oh my God, look at how ugly Lake Erie is in the winter!
January 13, 201114 yr Holt sh!t. OK... I'll just touch on a couple things that haven't been covered yet. They say this about Minneapolis: The Twin Cities’ image as a place for extreme weather gets exaggerated, but there’s certainly plenty of snow., but EVERYTHING you've heard about Cleveland weather is 100% true. What a load of BS. Let's totally ignore Minneapolis' average high of 22 in January but focus on Cleveland's 28 degree "average temperature in the winter months". Second, they say about Milwaukee: Just up the pike from Chicago, the Lake Michigan shore city gets hit pretty regularly. The latest storm forced the Bucks to cancel a game., but they fail to mention that the game that was cancelled was in ATLANTA! What a bunch of ignorant f&cks.
January 13, 201114 yr So nobody at Forbes even fact checks anymore? I guess they've decided to go the Weekly World News route of just making things up? Someone that represents the city needs to call them out on the inaccuracies and publicly embarrass them.
January 13, 201114 yr Wow, they're not even trying to fudge the numbers, just flat out lie/error/ignorance. "People seem to associate more snow with Buffalo, but the other side of Lake Erie gets smacked just as much." "Sault Ste. Marie, Mich. Lander, Wy., Buffalo, N.Y. and Syracuse, N.Y., places that routinely get pounded with 90 or more inches each winter." So 59.3 inches is "just as much" as 90 inches. And as a Utah resident the last dozen years, does the "beautiful winter scenery" include all the inversions?
January 13, 201114 yr ^The funny thing too is that Toledo is the other side of Lake Erie, not Cleveland. I'd hardly call Central Basin "the other side." Forbes is high school journalism at its finest.
January 13, 201114 yr ^Inversions? Like atmospheric inversions? How do these make Utah weather necessarily worse?
January 13, 201114 yr ^Inversions? Like atmospheric inversions? How do these make Utah weather necessarily worse? Insanely cold below, traps all the nasty parts of the air on the ground.
January 18, 201114 yr Yahoo finance: Top cities that are "running out of people" (IE shrinking) "The population of the United States has increased steadily by roughly 2.5 million people every year since World War II. Throughout prosperity and hard times, Americans continue to have families. Many of the country's regions have expanded to accommodate this population increase. Some cities have grown faster than others as the result of being at the center of some important new technology or job market. Others have lost residents because of failing industries and migration. Nevertheless, some of these cities have continued to grow slowly, or at least remain relatively stagnant, buoyed by the rising tide of the national population. There are some cities, however, that have experienced such severe hardship and decline that their populations have actually decreased significantly.... >snip< ...the cities (the article has a blurb with each), and I think NOLA is a special case, so maybe shouldnt be on this list. But the place could be a harbringer of the future if we see more natural disasters hitting urban areas? 1. New Orleans Population: 354,850 Population Change 2000-2009: -128,813 Population Percent Change 2000-2009: -26.63% Home Vacancy: 21.5% 2. Flint, Mich. Population: 111,475 Population Change 2000-2009: -13,266 Population Percent Change 2000-2009: -10.63% Home Vacancy: 18% 3. Cleveland Population: 431,369 Population Change 2000-2009: -45,205 Population Percent Change 2000-2009: -9.49% Home Vacancy: 17.5% 4. Buffalo, N.Y. Population: 270,240 Population Change 2000-2009: -21,970 Population Percent Change 2000-2009: -7.52% Home Vacancy: 17.2% 5. Dayton, Ohio Population: 153,843 Population Change 2000-2009: -11,961 Population Percent Change 2000-2009: -7.21% Home Vacancy: 18.9% 6. Pittsburgh Population: 311,647 Population Change 2000-2009: -22,056 Population Percent Change 2000-2009: -6.61% Home Vacancy: 14.1% 7. Rochester, N.Y. Population: 207,294 Population Change 2000-2009: -12,180 Population Percent Change 2000-2009: -5.55% Home Vacancy: 15.3% ....and to think I've been to all these except for NOLA and Flint.
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