February 18, 201015 yr I suppose. But I have never seen that used as a reason for a city being a great place to live. Move here, it's great, we have wonderful weather, great schools and our football team has been in the super bowl 3 times. Never have I seen that type of thing as a measurement when considering "best places to live." But perhaps I haven't looked hard enough. True, but the rankings didn't purport to be a ranking of best places to live. It was trying to measure some measurement of "miserableness." In that vein, I think sports team records are OK, as long as they're not too bit a portion of the analysis; they do have an impact on an area's collective psyche. Of course, I'm not sure that applies to the Akron Aeros here. They're not as widely followed as the Cavs or Tribe, to coin a wry understatement.
February 18, 201015 yr ^ It's not a reason to move to a city, but it gives the city a positive vibe. This usually translates into a better overall national perception.
February 18, 201015 yr ^ It's not a reason to move to a city, but it gives the city a positive vibe. This usually translates into a better overall national perception. Look at New Orleans and the Saints. Huge change in the amount of positive press that the city recieves. Come to think of it, NO wasn't on the list?
February 18, 201015 yr What you're saying is that the best way to reduce the perception of misery in Ohio is to shift the tax burden from the wealthy to those who can least afford it. Yeah, clearly that is what I am saying. Since poor people spend the same amount of money on goods and services as the wealthy, it will absolutely shift the tax burden to the poor and attract rich people to the state where they can hoard their money in shoe boxes under their mattress inside their $20,000 house in Slavic Village. :roll: Perhaps it wasn't exactly correct of me to say that is what you were saying, but it is certainly the net effect of what you are saying we should do. Taxing sales shifts the tax burden, as a proportion of overall income, to those who spend a higher proportion of their income- i.e., middle class or lower. In all fairness you could make the argument that the very poorest people will not shoulder as heavy a burden from a sales tax as moderate or middle income people will, as a disproportionate amount of their income goes to food or rent or other things not subject to sales tax. But yes, it shifts the tax burden away from affluent people who have excess income and accumulated wealth.
February 18, 201015 yr OK. Let's select some criteria that we think are important, apply them to a bunch of cities and decide how their rankings fit the hot-button adjective we've chosen -- in this case, "miserable." We'll look only at those negative criteria, and will not factor in any of the positives, and then we'll comb through a bunch of photos to find ones negative enough to "prove" our arbitrary point. Why did I get out of journalism. As to those who look at this cynical approach to "journalism" and then make a case for lower and regressive taxes, I have one word: Minnesota. High taxes. High quality of life. High education standards and results. High employment. High rankings in these silly magazine exercises. This is not to say high taxes are the solution. It's to say quality of life is more important than low taxes.
February 18, 201015 yr It almost seems like they added the corrupt officials criteria so they could make Cleveland Number 1. Obviously, Cleveland does have miserable weather, high taxes, and high unemployment, but alot of big cities do. The thing that made Cleveland Number 1 is the public awareness of Political Corruption...which I believe they needed to add to make us number 1. I mean really, Does the County Corruption Probe really make people that miserable.
February 18, 201015 yr It's probably because Akron has so many hot chicks. Huh? Was that just so you could insert your mandatory mention of "Hot Chicks" into the post?
February 18, 201015 yr I dunno. I've lived in Akron for six months now and have been enjoying it more than I enjoyed Canton, where I lived for two years before this. Also, while I'll admit that Canton is by and large a miserable city, even it has its highlights if you know where to look.
February 18, 201015 yr I just made a list of the worst publications in America...Forbes is #1. See, that was easy. I based my findings on the fact I don't like Forbes. It just sounded logical to make Forbes # 1. Let's not discuss the merits of what city is the most miserable because it's so hard to quantify. Did Forbes do a national survey? C'mon...their last list used yearly averages to determine who had the worst winter weather. Minneapolis...with 40 inches of snow a year and average January high of 22 degrees is worst than Cleveland? Yeah, sounds pretty scientific to me. Its obvious Cleveland is Forbes' whipping boy. Every bad list they come up with Cleveland is on it. I don't want to hear the numbers back it up because you manipulate the hell out of stats. For example, they used crime data from the city proper, but mentioned regional population loss. How is that consistent?
February 18, 201015 yr Toledo and Cleveland are known for their good-looking girls too. I would love for you to find even one shred of backup on this. I have never heard that.
February 18, 201015 yr What you're saying is that the best way to reduce the perception of misery in Ohio is to shift the tax burden from the wealthy to those who can least afford it. How about encouraging savings vs. spending? Sincerely, Non Keynesian
February 18, 201015 yr Toledo and Cleveland are known for their good-looking girls too. I would love for you to find even one shred of backup on this. I have never heard that. Hey my wife is from Cleveland! Is that enough backup for you? Just kidding. The only area of the country that I have ever heard being know for good looking people is SoCal. Now if he said Cleveland and Toldeo girls are know for their drinking abilities, I would have no problem believing that.
February 18, 201015 yr Encouraging savings is wonderful if you are in a position to take advantage of it. But for those living paycheck to paycheck I guess it's just a hearty exhortation to go eat some cake.
February 18, 201015 yr Oh, ok. I think they're underrated too, but certainly not in the attractive females department. But I guess that's a matter of personal taste.
February 18, 201015 yr I think Clevelanders should flood the people at Forbes with every...feel good PD article... You might be hard pressed to find these in abundance.
February 18, 201015 yr If we flood them with articles, they'll know they have our attention and that their strategy is working. I'd rather just not give them the attention at all. It just sounds like someone crying out that they didn't fart after being accused of farting - it doesn't matter what you say, nobody believes you didn't fart, and the more you protest, the worse it looks.
February 18, 201015 yr I think Clevelanders should flood the people at Forbes with every...feel good PD article... You might be hard pressed to find these in abundance. Hmmm perhaps an alternative press source would be a better option. Good idea.
February 18, 201015 yr Can anyone tell me where to find this overabundance of miserable people in the Cleveland area. I know quite a few miserable people who moved away and, shockingly, did not find happiness where they moved to. So, other than the PD building and our exports, where can I go wallow in my miseries and not feel all alone?
February 18, 201015 yr Interesting thought...perhaps Cleveland could re-name a sewage plant or landfill after them? I actually like this idea!
February 18, 201015 yr Maybe the opposing team's fans at each Browns game could sit in the Forbes section of seats? Ha ha. Or do we have a landfill here? Maybe we could rename it Forbes Field.
February 18, 201015 yr On a serious note, there HAS to be someone at Forbes who felt slighted by his employment in Cleveland. I mean why the frack is it that Cleveland ends up at the top of these lists, EVERY time? Perception is 9/10 of reality to those who don't know any better, including the local population. This needs to be stopped... HOW is the question.
February 18, 201015 yr Perception is 9/10 of reality to those who don't know any better, including the local population. This needs to be stopped... HOW is the question. I don't like this way of thinking. Perception is not 9/10 of reality. If you lose your job and/or your house, if your car gets vandalized or stolen, etc., it's not perception, it's reality. Therefore, "this" doesn't need to be stopped. It just needs to be ignored. Fix the actual (not the perceived) problems with the city and perception will eventually catch up. Letting perception trump reality is great for used car salesmen and investment bankers selling mortgage-backed securities, but it's seldom as good for the buyer.
February 18, 201015 yr Perception is 9/10 of reality to those who don't know any better, including the local population. This needs to be stopped... HOW is the question. I don't like this way of thinking. Perception is not 9/10 of reality. If you lose your job and/or your house, if your car gets vandalized or stolen, etc., it's not perception, it's reality. Therefore, "this" doesn't need to be stopped. It just needs to be ignored. Fix the actual (not the perceived) problems with the city and perception will eventually catch up. Letting perception trump reality is great for used car salesmen and investment bankers selling mortgage-backed securities, but it's seldom as good for the buyer. Try telling that to the suburbanite who is afraid to visit downtown because of "perception". Or the family member who talked down on the city who you've had to correct. Or the co-worker who moved away to perceived "greener pastures". Or the college students who graduated and moved away because of the "perception" of cities such as Atlanta, Houston, or Miami. Or an old friend who only knows Cleveland for the negative news stories which are perpetually pushed through both the national and local media. And so on. Perception = $, plain and simple. We can discuss this in full on the "Cleveland's Perception" thread. Sure, WE can ignore it. But again, to the public who doesn't know any better, or doesn't take the time to look for what's really going on in the city, or how the city's economy is REALLY doing when compared to the national economy (or even cities of comparable size), etc., Forbes and the negative slant of our local news media is all they know.
February 18, 201015 yr What you're saying is that the best way to reduce the perception of misery in Ohio is to shift the tax burden from the wealthy to those who can least afford it. That would make Forbes happy, for sure. Then we could all live in actual torment, not just the perceived misery of the falsely aggrieved.
February 18, 201015 yr Not to slam on the D but I always thought it was in worse shape than Cleveland. You would be correct IMO. And it is not even close.
February 18, 201015 yr Three words: consider the source. Forbes, for some reason, just has it in for the city of Cleveland. Just last week we got named the Worst Winter Weather city. Sometimes I think they just make up lists like "Worst City to Have a Bad Hair Day in" in so they can generate a headline reading "Cleveland: America's WORST city for..." And then that headline gets picked up by yahoo, msn, aol, etc. etc. and we all look bad. Did the bully (and there had to have been several of them) who antagonized Steve Forbes as a child wear a Browns jersey to school? Actually, my guess is that it's probably just politics. Forbes is a conservative magazine with an editorial agenda more slanted than most. And Cleveland is a union-dominated, one-party (Democratic) town. I'm actually an "R" myself but I still love the city. Why can't these guys lighten up?
February 19, 201015 yr They didn't spare anyone. And Stockton at number 2? Pretty fair. Stockton is Lima or Mansfield with palm trees.
February 19, 201015 yr Why doesnt Forbes just cut to the chase and title an article- Cleveland: Worst City in Every Way. :roll:
February 19, 201015 yr The list was another example of Forbes' wonderful view of Ohio. Annoying and pointless, with an obvious bias. Have the writers never been to New Jersey?
February 19, 201015 yr Author Forbes magazine is worse than a dirty lover, it's fickle: Phillip Morris The ranking is a joke. I know that sounds defensive. I don't care. The misery index that the magazine created to rank America's most miserable cities, a list that includes Chicago, New York and four other Ohio cities, is a joke. The magazine's list is newsworthy only to the extent that it provides useful insight into the decline of what was once a credible source of information. Forbes has quickly proven itself to be a wildly inconsistent, if not juvenile, interpreter of the American experience. .... So, fellow Clevelanders, take heart. The Forbes' lists are wildly inconsistent, incompatible, and just plain silly. The new ranking of miserable cities is no more credible than the magazine's 2009 ranking of hot dating cities. The lists represent nothing more than the intersection of lazy reporting and easily culled census data. If a ranking for miserable, increasingly irrelevant national magazines ever comes out, I bet I know which one ranks first. http://www.cleveland.com/morris/index.ssf/2010/02/forbes_magazine_is_worse_than.html
February 19, 201015 yr "The lists represent nothing more than the intersection of lazy reporting and easily culled census data." I don't know if it could be stated much better.
February 19, 201015 yr The list was another example of Forbes' wonderful view of Ohio. Annoying and pointless, with an obvious bias. Have the writers never been to New Jersey? Forbes is from NJ...I'm sure he gives them hometown bias on the editing table... Good article by Morris.
February 19, 201015 yr Forbes ranks as my #1 worst publication, based on my opnion. I'm disappointed in myself for even commenting on this.
February 19, 201015 yr Who has good research/networking skills? I'd like to uncover who on their staff has this anti-Cleveland bias. It's just ridiculous. I bet MTS could find. Where IS he?
February 19, 201015 yr ^ speculation sure, but you can bet their staff is full of manhattan "move-ins" aka rather wealthy young people in media who move in and hate on their homestates because the razzle dazzle goes to their head. usually they settle down after a few years or flame out and leave. as for forbes itself, r-n-r i dk for sure but, there are an awful lotf of cle and ne ohioans in nyc and also the one time i met a bunch of the forbes staffers several years ago it was very memorable and i heard some familiar accents -- i dk why midwesterners are the worst for this kind of thing, but that seems to be the way it is.
February 19, 201015 yr They didn't spare anyone. And Stockton at number 2? Pretty fair. Stockton is Lima or Mansfield with palm trees. Umm, Mansfield's unemployment is not as bad as Stockton's and I am pretty sure that we have a much lower crime rate. Plus, we have a carousel, which makes everyone pretty freaking happy. :)
February 19, 201015 yr Although I think Forbes magazine isn't worhty of being used as toilet paper, I think if there is a smidgen of truth to this poll it's because way too many locals can have a wee bit negative attitude and a "grass is always greener" thing about their town eventhough they really love Cleveland deep down. This is coming from my friends and family as well. I find myselft in the weird position of having to defend the Cleve to the locals which kills me. Perhaps it's a generational thing from having to witness such bad press but I think it's just a matter of time and work before the local attitude really swings to the positive, and to be sure I think it is without a doubt. On another note I have a lot of family that live in Stockton and that city is the absolute most depressing city with almost next to nothing going on and can not even compare to the Cleve in any way except maybe the weather. Stockton doesn't even have one half way decent bar or restaurant or even a local coffe shop or any place with charm or charachter.
February 23, 201015 yr Letter to the PD from a Texan: Cleveland's 'misery'? Texans didn't notice it http://blog.cleveland.com/letters/2010/02/clevelands_misery_texans_didnt.html
February 23, 201015 yr Letter to the PD from a Texan: Cleveland's 'misery'? Texans didn't notice it http://blog.cleveland.com/letters/2010/02/clevelands_misery_texans_didnt.html hmmm? Maybe they are right. There is no such thing as bad PUBLICITY.... Mark in Texas,Thanks for taking the time to write the PD.
February 23, 201015 yr Dispatch's Joe Blundo weighs in on Forbes's miserable misery rankings: SO TO SPEAK Let’s hope misery isn’t contagious Tuesday, February 23, 2010 2:47 AM By Joe Blundo My first inclination was to ridicule Forbes.com for featuring Ohio on its list of the “20 Most Miserable Cities.” The misery rankings (at www. forbes.com) put Cleveland at No. 1; Canton, No. 9; Akron, No.12; Toledo, No. 15; and Youngstown, No. 18. So let’s get the ridicule out of the way early: The Forbes plan for determining misery has a measure of silliness built into it. http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/life/stories/2010/02/23/lets-hope-misery-isnt-contagious.html?sid=101
February 23, 201015 yr "How its sports teams have fared?...Pardon me, but, when I think of human suffering, the first thing that comes to mind isn’t whether the Indians can make a run at the pennant." Same thing I said. I'm glad there is at least 1 man out there that agrees with me that this is a silly way to rank "misery."
February 23, 201015 yr Sports definitely plays apart of a city's morale. Maybe not for you, but for A LOT of folks it does.
February 23, 201015 yr I know, but it was just nice to find someone else who agreed with me who is not a female, so I know it's not just me.
February 23, 201015 yr Sports definitely plays apart of a city's morale. Maybe not for you, but for A LOT of folks it does. Agree 100%, especially with the Browns and the misery they've brought to the fans over the past 10 years. It makes no sense to equate the two (city success and team success) but people do..
February 23, 201015 yr I agree they make their fans miserable. I wonder if anyone actually moves here from elsewhere and becomes (and stays) a Browns fan, or if truly, 100% (or very close to it) of their fans are people who grew up in Cleveland, because I don't understand why anyone else would be a Browns fan. I understand why natives are fans, they grew up as fans and are extremely loyal, but you know, when my sister's family moved to Chicago they became fans of some of those sports teams. When they moved to WI they became Packers fans, when I moved to LA I liked the Lakers and even went to a couple of Dodger games, many people just become fans of the team wherever they live, but I wonder if transplants to cleveland do this with the Browns, because they just seem to always be so awful. Not trying to be mean, it's a serious question. But I dont' think we have any way to accurately answer it, I'm just curious.
February 23, 201015 yr I agree they make their fans miserable. I wonder if anyone actually moves here from elsewhere and becomes (and stays) a Browns fan, or if truly, 100% (or very close to it) of their fans are people who grew up in Cleveland, because I don't understand why anyone else would be a Browns fan. I understand why natives are fans, they grew up as fans and are extremely loyal, but you know, when my sister's family moved to Chicago they became fans of some of those sports teams. When they moved to WI they became Packers fans, when I moved to LA I liked the Lakers and even went to a couple of Dodger games, many people just become fans of the team wherever they live, but I wonder if transplants to cleveland do this with the Browns, because they just seem to always be so awful. Not trying to be mean, it's a serious question. But I dont' think we have any way to accurately answer it, I'm just curious. Let's just say "bandwagon" and "Browns fan" don't belong in the same sentence together, there's no such animal. From talking with people that moved to Cleveland, I would say MANY of them become Tribe fans, some become Cavs fans, but very few change allegiances with their former team and become Browns fans. Though some adopt them as their "second team", I'm hoping Holmgren changes all that..
February 23, 201015 yr "How its sports teams have fared?...Pardon me, but, when I think of human suffering, the first thing that comes to mind isn’t whether the Indians can make a run at the pennant." Same thing I said. I'm glad there is at least 1 man out there that agrees with me that this is a silly way to rank "misery." I agree :)
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