https://www.cleveland.com/news/2021/09/no-rapid-to-browns-stadium-rta-suspends-waterfront-line-service-indefinitely.html

 

No Rapid to Browns stadium; RTA suspends Waterfront Line service indefinitely

 

So, as I had asked in June (somewhat rhetorically), what happens to the East 9th station that connects to the Amtrak lines. Meaning, how the F do people get from the Amtrak to ground level other than climbing the goddamn hill next to the station.

 

The station was locked from the inside AGAIN Friday morning, which means the options of getting to Tower City were (1) walking up the hill (which be fun in bad weather) or (2) walking on the freeway until you get to W3.

 

Please tell me I'm missing something incredibly obvious. 

14 minutes ago, TBideon said:

Please tell me I'm missing something incredibly obvious. 

 

How about: if you don't have a car wrapped around your body, you don't matter in Cleveland, in Ohio, in the USA.

 

1 hour ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

 

Funny they didn't take her on the Waterfront Line to see the ailing bridge? 

I was at the NOACA annual meeting on Friday, at which Administrator Fernandez was the keynote speaker. All of the talk from her, Grace Gallucci, Mayor Jackson, and Executive Budish was about how public transportation is important (no mention at all about highways, which was great). The theme of the meeting, and of the new 30 year plan is equity equity equity. Supporting the vital public transportation system fits firmly in that ethos. Perhaps they can take this on in the near future if they are serious.

Is the red line free now? I took it 3 times last week (Little Italy to Hopkins, then vice versa when my flight was cancelled; then Little Italy to Hopkins the next day), bought 2 single ride passes at LI, and there was no indication of how or where the cards would/should have been collected or scanned. 

3 minutes ago, TBideon said:

Is the red line free now? I took it 3 times last week (Little Italy to Hopkins, then vice versa when my flight was cancelled; then Little Italy to Hopkins the next day), bought 2 single ride passes at LI, and there was no indication of how or where the cards would/should have been collected or scanned. 

 

That's how it is. You should activate them, be it on mobile or paper ticket at machine before boarding. There is always chance you will be asked to show your pass and it should be activated at that time. I think terminal tower is the only pop location.

What does it mean to activate them? If the machine gave that instruction, I must have missed it. I'm used to taking green or blue to Tower City and vice versa, in which they have the turnstiles. 

 

Also, the Tower City clerk had no idea where the 67 shuttle drop off/pick up were. That was a fun 6am search when I had initially arrived.

Edited September 12, 20213 yr by TBideon

23 minutes ago, TBideon said:

What does it mean to activate them? If the machine gave that instruction, I must have missed it. I'm used to taking green or blue to Tower City and vice versa, in which they have the turnstiles. 

 

Also, the Tower City clerk had no idea where the 67 shuttle drop off/pick up were. That was a fun 6am search when I had initially arrived.

There are two ways to activate the cards.  One way is the first use when using a turnstile or putting it into the fare box reader.  The second way (not advisable) is when you purchase the cards.  If you do that right when you purchase the card, you have to use it within a short period of time or the the trip is considered "used up".  If you purchase the card(s) then decide to not board immediately, that "clock" has started ticking.  The machines are not clear on the activation instructions.

So the second method was what I should have done, since there were no turnstiles or fair readers.

 

And since I didn't activate them and just bought the cards, theoretically I could have been fined? 

 

I've never heard of such a process. 

3 hours ago, TBideon said:

Also, the Tower City clerk had no idea where the 67 shuttle drop off/pick up were. That was a fun 6am search when I had initially arrived.

RTA is so bad at the basics....

7 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

RTA is so bad at the basics....

 

It starts at the top. Birdsong came with much fanfare, but she hasn't proven to be even a decent leader for RTA. How many years left on her contract?

4 hours ago, TBideon said:

So the second method was what I should have done, since there were no turnstiles or fair readers.

 

And since I didn't activate them and just bought the cards, theoretically I could have been fined? 

 

I've never heard of such a process. 

I have been using the mobile app since they introduced it but for paper tickets I think there is an option when you purchase at the machine to dispense it activated or not. If there is no dip or sliding scan turnstyle at your boarding location then I believe this is your only option to activate, so ya it sounded like you needed method 2. It's confusing. I think it's active for 30 minutes which is also the free transfer timeframe.

 

I have been questioned with unactivated tickets before, you just explain and I was never fined. Even if not questioned I would just throw it out for peace of mind that I paid but ya it's honor system at that point.

5 hours ago, TBideon said:

So the second method was what I should have done, since there were no turnstiles or fair readers.

 

And since I didn't activate them and just bought the cards, theoretically I could have been fined? 

 

I've never heard of such a process. 

I should have added (my mistake) as the process that I used was for the 5-trip passes.  I don't recall the last time that I used a single-day pass.  The machine gives the option to activate those upon purchase.  If somebody purchased multiple 5-trip passes, it would activate all of them at the moment.  It didn't matter if one was purchasing for use immediately, next week or a few weeks down the road.  Poor design.

18 hours ago, Pugu said:

 

It starts at the top. Birdsong came with much fanfare, but she hasn't proven to be even a decent leader for RTA. How many years left on her contract?

Agree on Birdsong, she has been very disappointing.  Plenty of Calabrese hold-overs are still on the job; the same people who weren't paying attention, didn't care about what was going on, incompetent or more concerned about their own well-being instead of the system.  She should have initiated a top-to-bottom complete review and house-cleaning to clean out the deadwood. 

 

After not being on the job for a tremendous amount of time, she goes on maternity leave.  Nothing wrong with that, but she leaves the day-to-day operations and probably some big decisions to the band of mis-managers who end up being in charge.  She comes back from maternity leave and not all that long afterwards, goes on maternity leave once again.  The same people in control while she was on leave are back at the helm.  They totally botch up the bidding process on the biggest vehicle purchase the system will make for decades.  Decisions concerning the bidding for the rail car purchase and the necessary unification of operation with one fleet caused the bidding to be canceled.  The eventual advertisement for bids delayed until sometime in the future.  Unfortunately, the worn out and obsolete rail cars are force to remain in service even longer.  There are only so many out-of-service rapid transit cars that can be stripped for parts.  They will be, if not already, be forced to pay for short-run expensive custom part orders to keep rail operations going. 

 

It takes about 5 years to get new rail cars in service once the final round of bidding starts, so the rail operation isn't going to improve any time soon.

 

As for Birdsong, she was hired with a five year contract and started as general manager on September 16, 2019.  It appears that she will be in charge for at least another three years, unless the board decides to extend her contract with bonuses and raises like it did so many times for Calabrese, or she decides that RTA is only a stepping-stone to go to a bigger (and better) system.  Maybe by 2024, they will have the bids awarded for those new rapid transit cars.

Edited September 13, 20213 yr by LifeLongClevelander

In view of the recent move of GE Current from Nela Park in East Cleveland to Beachwood, I was thinking about how to make Nela Park more attractive to businesses.  Extending the Red Line east to Noble Road might help bring workers to that industrial park.  Windermere is just too far away (Google maps says that's a 40 minute walk;  from the tracks by Noble it's about 17 minutes to the center of Nela Park).

 

Which led to another thought -- wouldn't it be nice if municipalities and the county, when it comes to economic development, would invite RTA to the table.  Or better yet, if RTA would reach out to municipalities to discuss their transit needs.  Given the number of municipalities, it probably wouldn't happen every year, but every two or three years?  Shouldn't "How can we help?" be part of RTA's business outreach to governmental units in the region? 

 

Maybe this is happening behind the scenes.  But given the sorry state of East Cleveland, its proximity to booming University Circle, the presence of an existing rail line in close proximity, and an industrial park needing workers, extending the Red Line seems to be justifiable if EC, RTA, and Cuyahoga County could come together.  And if Euclid and Cleveland got on board it could go even further.  I hope someone from RTA and CC is reading these pages...

Two things, first, this sounds bad - RTA shut down everything at TC today:

 

 

And second, I've started taking the bus because of a bike crash (I'm good, broken collarbone but I'll live lol) and the 53 is now sporting hard blue seats - is this a change across the system? I'd imagine it's a covid (and cost saving measure) vs having the fabric covers. 

 

 

On 9/21/2021 at 11:50 AM, GISguy said:

And second, I've started taking the bus because of a bike crash (I'm good, broken collarbone but I'll live lol) and the 53 is now sporting hard blue seats - is this a change across the system? I'd imagine it's a covid (and cost saving measure) vs having the fabric covers. 

I believe that RTA started the program to replace the seats prior to COVID, but they are easier to clean.  Vinyl seats are probably just as easy to clean, but regardless of fabric or vinyl, they suffer damage.  Replacing damaged seat coverings is another cost and task that RTA saves by going to hard seats.  Rider comfort?  Not much if at all.  Even when the seats were fabric covered, they weren't very comfortable to sit in for an extended period of time.

 

In 1969, CTS purchased its last group of blue city transit coaches, the 3000-series.  They were bare-bones and as inexpensive as possible.  Riders hated them as they had hard fiberglass seats.  Unfortunately, the hard seats are now becoming the system standard.  No matter how they "re-invent" the system with different routes and increasing frequencies on some lines, a long and uncomfortable ride will not be enticing to passengers.    

Something doesn't add up here. Why not make stops at West 25th unless there was some type of threat/safety situation??

 

 

 

On 9/29/2021 at 3:50 PM, LifeLongClevelander said:

I believe that RTA started the program to replace the seats prior to COVID, but they are easier to clean.  Vinyl seats are probably just as easy to clean, but regardless of fabric or vinyl, they suffer damage.  Replacing damaged seat coverings is another cost and task that RTA saves by going to hard seats.  Rider comfort?  Not much if at all.  Even when the seats were fabric covered, they weren't very comfortable to sit in for an extended period of time.

 

In 1969, CTS purchased its last group of blue city transit coaches, the 3000-series.  They were bare-bones and as inexpensive as possible.  Riders hated them as they had hard fiberglass seats.  Unfortunately, the hard seats are now becoming the system standard.  No matter how they "re-invent" the system with different routes and increasing frequencies on some lines, a long and uncomfortable ride will not be enticing to passengers.    

 

I actually noticed the same on the CTA busses a few months ago on a trip to Chicago - so at least we're not alone in going to hard seats.

1 hour ago, mu2010 said:

 

I actually noticed the same on the CTA busses a few months ago on a trip to Chicago - so at least we're not alone in going to hard seats.

I understand the reasoning.  A certain segment of the ridership will not respect the equipment they get to ride.  It becomes a never-ending cycle to replace the damaged seats, let alone keeping them clean.  As a result, everyone else suffers and it doesn't do anything towards making the riding experience pleasant.  In a city where mass transit is a necessity like New York and Chicago, it won't make any difference.  They are designed to haul the masses where even seating is minimized (perimeter seating) so they can transport as many a possible.  When riding equipment that has poor riding qualities regardless of the kind of seat cushions are present, going the hard plastic route only makes it worse. 

I always hated the cloth seats.  I've sat in them and found out they were wet with....something.  At least with hard seats you can look first.  I think cloth is a stupid covering for public transit seats.

Eew!

6 hours ago, X said:

I always hated the cloth seats.  I've sat in them and found out they were wet with....something.  At least with hard seats you can look first.  I think cloth is a stupid covering for public transit seats.

Don't know why somebody decided to come up with cloth seats.  The Breda and Tokyu rail cars were delivered with vinyl seats.  The older former Shaker and CTS rapid transit cars all had vinyl-type seats as well as did all of the CTS buses (except for the one group that came in 1969).  Even with the buses that were purchased after RTA was created in 1975 through the mid-1990's had vinyl seats.  From what I recall, when RTA started purchasing buses in the late 1990's, the decision was made to have those fabric insert seats.  Vinyl is as easy to clean as the hard plastic ones, but they have the problem of maintenance.  The thin inserts offered little in the way of comfort anyways.

 

From a historical perspective, decisions like this helped the demise of mass transit in this country.  Cleveland's streetcar system operated equipment with hard rattan seats almost until the end of operations in the 1950's.  CTS and RTA had problems maintaining the air conditioning systems on buses (builder-supplied winterization covers were too much of a "bother" to install/remove).  If anybody purchases a car, air conditioning comes as standard equipment.  Seating in cars is comparable to what somebody has in their home.  It is no wonder why a certain system's ridership has been nosediving for a long time.

Edited October 7, 20213 yr by LifeLongClevelander

RTA to Deploy Civilian Ambassadors Instead of Armed Cops to Enforce Fare Payment, Finally

Sam Allard - Scene - Oct. 12, 2021

 

"In 2017, Cleveland Municipal Court Judge Emanuella Groves ruled that the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority's (RTA's) proof of payment fare enforcement method was unconstitutional. Fares were at that time enforced on the Health Line and Red Line rapid transit trains by armed RTA cops. ... according to a presentation by RTA's new police chief Dierdre Jones at Tuesday's board committee meeting, a six-month pilot program will employ unarmed ambassadors to inspect fares and assist passengers with navigating the transit system in 2022. Ambassadors will be full-time employees working first and second shifts, seven days a week, and will be a regular presence on buses, trains and at transit stops."

 

 

RTA Safety Ambassador Program Presentation: http://www.riderta.com/sites/default/files/events/2021-10-12TransitAmbassadorProgram.pdf

^ Hopefully, this means the return of POP on the Healthline. Ideally, the entire system should just go POP.

 

 

Fantastic news!

1 hour ago, freefourur said:

^ Hopefully, this means the return of POP on the Healthline.

That would be great.

 

 

On Monday NPR had a discussion with various community stakeholders about the Clark Fulton neighborhood. (Clark-Fulton is one Cleveland neighborhood targeted for revitalization and investment) India Birdsong (who was one of the guests) briefly mentioned in the discussion that RTA is "looking at" and will be "precuring a new fare collection system" as the current system "was nearing the end of its useful life" (~34 minutes in). There weren't any other specifics really - but I can't recall if any news on a new/future fare collection system had been reported on/made official yet from RTA. 

Oh this is so overdue. Healthline should be the biggest beneficiary.  I’m curious how much time this will shave - maybe five+ minutes? (More?) That’s huge for riders AND operating expenses. 
 

The linked ppt confirms POP pilot on healthline and trains, plus ambassadors at stations. 

RTA has the fare machines to implement a contactless fare collection system. They've never implemented it and I sometimes wonder if they ever will.

 

User review of the Shaker Line track updates:

 

 

On 10/12/2021 at 3:19 PM, NorthShore647 said:

Ambassadors will be full-time employees working first and second shifts, seven days a week, and will be a regular presence on buses, trains and at transit stops."

 

What is third shift, 11pm-7am?  Does this mean you can ride for free and not get busted during this time? Good to know. But why would RTA make this publicly known?

19 minutes ago, Pugu said:

 

What is third shift, 11pm-7am?  Does this mean you can ride for free and not get busted during this time? Good to know. But why would RTA make this publicly known?

The only place that fares are checked on the Red Line right now is Tower City. So this is an improvement.
 

I’m pretty sure that when RTA advertises a job, the details of that job have to be included, such as when the person applying would need to work. 

 

Moving to a proper POP system is critically important. This is long overdue and a massive step in the right direction. 

The only POP in the system is Red Line and Health Line.  Only the HealthLine runs 24 hours a day.  I assume they will revert to fare box after 11pm. 

On 10/12/2021 at 3:19 PM, NorthShore647 said:

RTA to Deploy Civilian Ambassadors Instead of Armed Cops to Enforce Fare Payment, Finally

 

Nothing in this pilot presentation says how these ambassadors will actually "enforce" the payments?    What is one of them going to do when some rowdy teenagers tell them to "F off" (which will happen on day one of this pilot)?   Stop the bus and call the transit cops?  

6 minutes ago, Cleburger said:

 

Nothing in this pilot presentation says how these ambassadors will actually "enforce" the payments?    What is one of them going to do when some rowdy teenagers tell them to "F off" (which will happen on day one of this pilot)?   Stop the bus and call the transit cops?  

In the grand scheme is this really a big deal. We are talking about a $2.50 fare. How far do we need to escalate that?

13 minutes ago, freefourur said:

In the grand scheme is this really a big deal. We are talking about a $2.50 fare. How far do we need to escalate that?

 

But don't those $2.50 fares add up to $27,814,000?   

 

http://www.riderta.com/sites/default/files/pdf/budget/2021/4-FundBudgets.pdf

20 minutes ago, freefourur said:

In the grand scheme is this really a big deal. We are talking about a $2.50 fare. How far do we need to escalate that?

 

I don't disagree.   I like the idea of having them on buses and trains also.

 

The people not paying fares are gonna keep not paying fares is what I'm sayin... 

The proper thing to do is make it the legal equivalent to a parking ticket. A legally enforceable non-criminal fine that doesn't go on any kind of "permanent record" but simply encourages fare payment based solely on the financial penalty. Not sure if we have the legal mechanism to do that but that's what should be done. The scene article makes no mention of it.

And I should add, we should not be ruining anybody's lives with very high fines and trying to collect it from people who don't have the money or anything like that. The goal is simply to make it kind of a hassle to get caught evading fares.

Edited October 14, 20213 yr by mu2010

Interesting...

 

Annnnd light-rail....

 

^Unfortunately, even if those numbers are accurate, it’s the equivalent of a business having a really bad comparable from the previous fiscal year. When your ridership numbers are poor, it doesn’t take as much to recover. 
 

I sure hope the growth of the W25th / Lorain neighborhood provides a boost to ridership. 

Where does Mr. Armlovich come up with the idea that Cleveland has a subway?  The Tower City tracks aren't a subway nor is the short tunnel that leads to the Airport station.  However, it is a nice ridership recovery for the rail system.  Maybe the ones running the show at RTA will take the replacement of the heavy and light rail vehicles with one common rail car to handle service on all lines more seriously instead of playing games with the bidding processes. 

5 minutes ago, LifeLongClevelander said:

Where does Mr. Armlovich come up with the idea that Cleveland has a subway?  The Tower City tracks aren't a subway nor is the short tunnel that leads to the Airport station.  However, it is a nice ridership recovery for the rail system.  Maybe the ones running the show at RTA will take the replacement of the heavy and light rail vehicles with one common rail car to handle service on all lines more seriously instead of playing games with the bidding processes. 

I think heavy rail is often referred to as subway even if not underground.  

5 minutes ago, freefourur said:

I think heavy rail is often referred to as subway even if not underground.  

Light rail operations extensively use subways as well.  Boston, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, San Francisco, Los Angeles and Newark are all examples of subway operations that use light rail equipment.

20 minutes ago, LifeLongClevelander said:

Light rail operations extensively use subways as well.  Boston, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, San Francisco, Los Angeles and Newark are all examples of subway operations that use light rail equipment.

I agree with you. Technically, a subway is underground. But often people classify heavy rail as subway.