20 hours ago, surfohio said:

 

To make it attractive requires more investment. One way to do that is to create more stakeholders who will demand better services, to make this politically viable. I still believe making it "free" does that to get the ball rolling. 

 

My main point is that's the fastest way to change things for the better. 

 

At the risk of triggering another "there you go again" discussion, with free fares, how do you keep the buses and trains from becoming rolling homeless shelters?   Because that's what I see happening unless there's a good way to prevent it.

People with options don't choose not to ride RTA because of the fares.   It's still the cheapest of the alternatives by a good margin.  Make the alternative less pleasant and you can lose those you have.

Edited February 24, 20223 yr by E Rocc

1 hour ago, GISguy said:

 

. . . the issue isn't so much with downtown it's where the job centers are. Think back to the Paradox Prize - getting people from where they live to where they work. Manufacturing is on the fringes of the county and going from Cleveland to Solon on a bus/to a plant isn't exactly worthwhile. I know I've noted this example in the thread before, but someone I know without a license/car got a job at amazon in Euclid, they lived in Maple Heights- his round trip bus travel would be like 3 hours to go a total of 40 miles to go work 8 hours. For comparison that's a 20-25 minute drive. Needless to say, he worked there for like two days.

 

I've gotten worked up over all the highway expansions and nothing going towards transit when we have a stagnant population but it's hard to be optimistic when we're in Ohio. 

Well, hooray for your cheaply-constructed distribution hub, Amazon.  Now they can either pay enough for someone to own a car or build closer to transit or they'll continue to struggle to find workers. 

 

This is another consequence of auto-centric sprawl.  Spread the population out further and further and there is no cost-effective way to maintain quality services everywhere for everyone.   Sewer, water, electric, roadways, transit, police, fire, ambulance -- all cost more if you spread the same population out, which is what "Greater" Cleveland has done.

 

I'm more of an optimist, however, based on the return of housing to downtown and university circle, and all the developments in the city of Cleveland and inner suburbs, maybe the core will become dense enough that RTA can survive.  If we were looking at 1990s downtown and only development further and further out -- I'd be very pessimistic about RTA's future.

1 hour ago, E Rocc said:

 

At the risk of triggering another "there you go again" discussion, with free fares, how do you keep the buses and trains from becoming rolling homeless shelters?   Because that's what I see happening unless there's a good way to prevent it.

People with options don't choose not to ride RTA because of the fares.   It's still the cheapest of the alternatives by a good margin.  Make the alternative less pleasant and you can lose those you have.

 

I can't speak to the buses, but the trains are largely unsupervised & I haven't experienced homeless people making a scene. I think people with options choose not to ride RTA because they're unfamiliar. I've seen plenty of white collar employees taking the Rapid. It's a good option, but it's not on the radar for most people. 

 

 

 

6 hours ago, E Rocc said:

 

At the risk of triggering another "there you go again" discussion, with free fares, how do you keep the buses and trains from becoming rolling homeless shelters?   Because that's what I see happening unless there's a good way to prevent it.

People with options don't choose not to ride RTA because of the fares.   It's still the cheapest of the alternatives by a good margin.  Make the alternative less pleasant and you can lose those you have.

KC makes people get off at the end of the line. It’s not much of a challenge. 
 

The reason to not go fare free is that any money necessary to accomplish that would be better spent on improving the service which would do more to help the people we’re trying to help. It would also encourage more ridership which is a better way of building political capital. 
 

If service was already fast, frequent, and reliable, it might be worth considering free fares. Otherwise service improvements are far more important than free fares. When the transit is good enough that a person can get rid of their car, they save WAY more money than the cost of fares or a bus pass. 

5 hours ago, Foraker said:

Exactly -- until we decide to make car use more difficult than transit, transit will struggle.

 

Improving RTA service as best as limited resources allow, and increasing TOD density, building on surface parking lots, making great places for pedestrians that are readily transportation-accessible is a start.

 

Car-free districts/zones will be something to consider in the future, but I don't think we're there yet.  If we restricted part of the downtown core to transit and bikes only, for example, I think it would just push companies to locate outside that area so that their employees can drive. 

Right now, people have become accustomed to driving their cars to work downtown.  Parking rates are affordable and spots are plentiful.  People have become comfortable to having those costs.  To them, they would rather pay extra to have the convenience and quicker commuting times than almost anything that RTA has to offer.  To get those habits to change, it would take having those costs becoming "painful" on the finances.  If the change comes quickly, RTA is in no position to deal with a surge in riders.

5 hours ago, E Rocc said:

 

At the risk of triggering another "there you go again" discussion, with free fares, how do you keep the buses and trains from becoming rolling homeless shelters?   Because that's what I see happening unless there's a good way to prevent it.

People with options don't choose not to ride RTA because of the fares.   It's still the cheapest of the alternatives by a good margin.  Make the alternative less pleasant and you can lose those you have.

I was just having a similar thought while riding the Red Line. Making fare evasion more difficult could potentially increase ridership. Assuming it significantly decreases the number of mentally unwell people riding.

 

While politically incorrect to say, it's no secret that mentally unstable homeless people make a lot of people uncomfortable, and some will even feel unsafe.

 

As someone pointed out earlier in the thread, Safety, or even just the perception of safety, is paramount, and will certainly dissuade some riders.

 

Maybe this isn't the answer, I don't know, but I frequently see homeless people on the Red Line (some of whom are perfectly stable, and just need some help). I can't help but thinking that there presence is (unfortunately) probably keeping some fare paying customers away.

54 minutes ago, LifeLongClevelander said:

Right now, people have become accustomed to driving their cars to work downtown.  Parking rates are affordable and spots are plentiful.  People have become comfortable to having those costs.  To them, they would rather pay extra to have the convenience and quicker commuting times than almost anything that RTA has to offer.  To get those habits to change, it would take having those costs becoming "painful" on the finances.  If the change comes quickly, RTA is in no position to deal with a surge in riders.

That's funny because all I hear about from the suburbanites on media sites such as facebook is their complaints of how downtown doesn't have any parking.

1 hour ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

That's funny because all I hear about from the suburbanites on media sites such as facebook is their complaints of how downtown doesn't have any parking.

Maybe they like to complain, but Willard Park (E.9th & Lakeside) is $10 max a day with early bird rate of $8.  Huntington Park (W.3rd & Lakeside) is $10 a day.  North Point Garage has early bird rates of $5 and $7 with a $13 max.  The Muny lot is $4.  Check out the parking rates downtown.  There are quite a few lots, most with very reasonable rates.  Maybe they are griping that they cannot find a particular lot with space next door to where they want to be, so they complain.  The fact is that compared to major cities where mass transit is a necessary part of commuting due to few and/or expensive parking/toll options, Cleveland's parking and driving options are quite reasonable and available.

 

No city lacks adequate parking.  They lack options to driving. 

Edited February 25, 20223 yr by gildone

15 hours ago, AsDustinFoxWouldSay said:

That's funny because all I hear about from the suburbanites on media sites such as facebook is their complaints of how downtown doesn't have any parking.

Ya. It's one hundred percent people thinking they can park in a big city downtown a block from their building. Trust me, there's plenty of parking downtown. Though gone are the days of extremely convenient parking. Too bad so sad. 

On 2/18/2022 at 12:33 PM, Boomerang_Brian said:

 

This is at City Club - more details here:

 

https://www.cityclub.org/forums/2022/02/25/connecting-to-the-community?mc_cid=3386a19eee&mc_eid=2193ced7c0

 

 

Happening now…

2 hours ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

Happening now…

Anyone watch/have opinions? 

On 2/25/2022 at 3:20 PM, GISguy said:

Anyone watch/have opinions? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwTGmyZChlM

 

I listened while working, so I probably missed some things.  I would be interested in the impressions from more knowledgeable people. 

 

Some things I caught --

Hoping to have new trains in four years (2026). Aiming for acquiring $30-40million in funding each year until then.

Trying to work with partners like Metrohealth to improve transit to large employers.  Mayor of Solon had good things to say.

New fare system is in the works (acknowledged that present system is 14-years behind current tech) -- I think she said by the end of 2022

She also talked about RTA operating more like a traditional business and setting up metrics to track performance, etc.

 

She said a lot of positive things, but I have no way to judge whether it was smoke or she is going to be making a big difference in the future.

WTF?

 

 

12 hours ago, KJP said:

WTF?

 

 

I had breakfast at My Friends on Detroit the other morning and saw a Trolley operating the 26.   This confirms I wasn't imagining it! 

7 hours ago, Cleburger said:

I had breakfast at My Friends on Detroit the other morning and saw a Trolley operating the 26.   This confirms I wasn't imagining it! 

Hard plastic seats on a rough riding bus as compared to hard wooden type seats on a rough riding bus--not much difference.  Either way, they are not endearing to passengers and is another way RTA loses riders.  At least RTA is still making use of them for service instead of getting rid of them for a fraction of their worth via surplus sales or keeping them in storage like they did with the park-n-ride highway coaches. 

If you want to decrease ridership, here's how:

 

Am I the only one who read that and thought, "There has to be more to it than that"? 

 

If there was some type of likely escalation, imagine the college student's embarrassment in getting leveled by someone who is homeless.

I'm not sure all of the panhandlers out there are homeless.

On 3/4/2022 at 4:15 PM, LifeLongClevelander said:

Hard plastic seats on a rough riding bus as compared to hard wooden type seats on a rough riding bus--not much difference.  Either way, they are not endearing to passengers and is another way RTA loses riders.  At least RTA is still making use of them for service instead of getting rid of them for a fraction of their worth via surplus sales or keeping them in storage like they did with the park-n-ride highway coaches. 

 

Plus the trolleys don't have bike racks on them. Many people use the bike racks on the bus as part of their multimodal trip.

3 hours ago, LibertyBlvd said:

I'm not sure all of the panhandlers out there are homeless.

 

Some aren't some are.   But a lot of them are shall we say "mentally unbalanced".

 

 

4 hours ago, KJP said:

 

Plus the trolleys don't have bike racks on them. Many people use the bike racks on the bus as part of their multimodal trip.

The fact that RTA is being forced to put the trolleys into service on regular routes bodes very badly for the system.  Supposedly, RTA has a "contingency" fleet of buses that they could use to press into service if the need arises.  The usage of the trolleys indicates that either the contingency fleet is comprised of such poor condition junk that it will take considerable effort to make road-worthy or the contingency fleet is beyond use/non-existent.  The only other possible extra city buses they may have are the HealthLine buses that are in the process of being retired.  Don't know how many of those were operational when their replacements entered service, but the actual number of lines that would warrant use of 60-foot articulated buses are few.

 

In the early 1980's, RTA was in bad shape for equipment.  Not long after RTA's creation, it purchased 300 new buses to replace the oldest inherited CTS and suburban system buses.  Approximately half of those 300 buses were the AM General buses that were an industry-wide disaster.  They were poorly designed buses made by a manufacturer with little to no bus building experience coupled with "incentives" to keep their weight down.  The resulting buses had such bad frames (among other things) that were breaking.  RTA managed to rebuild some, but the bulk were written off.  For a while there was a huge number of them stored out-of-service near the Brook Park rail yard.  As RTA had re-activated approximately 200 retired buses in 1975, many of them were worn out.  To provide service, RTA pressed into service about 20 former Euclid buses dating from 1950 to 1958.  Eventually, RTA leased and later purchased 50 used buses from Atlanta (the all-white "MARTA" buses).  In 1982 and 1983, the next group of new buses helped to relieve the old bus fleet.  Later, in the 1986-1987 time frame, there were delays in acquiring more buses (bad bids and contested specifications).  RTA still was relying on many old former CTS buses that were at the end of their service lives.  RTA was forced to purchase a number of former Columbus buses to maintain service.

 

As RTA is already facing equipment shortages and a prolonged period of high gas prices forces many to use mass transit, they won't have any extra equipment to deal with a rider surge.  The problems faced by RTA in the 1980's were more "local" in nature, caused by equipment shortages.  This time around, transit systems everywhere are all going to see potential rider surges.  Surplus buses may very well not be available this time around.  

I can't recommend RTA to anyone. I would hate to lose them as a potential transit advocate. Transit is not an option in Cleveland for coping with high gas prices.

How has RTA fallen this far? Not even sure what the solution would be at this point other than to clean house.

1 hour ago, JB said:

How has RTA fallen this far? Not even sure what the solution would be at this point other than to clean house.

 

They haven't fallen much, they have been a poor option for those with other options for at least the last couple of decades, except perhaps for commuting downtown.   Probably earlier.   The die was cast as the merger was happening as "one size fits all" was the mantra.

Edited March 8, 20223 yr by E Rocc

When is proof of payment coming back to the HealthLine. I rode it today and they are still requiring use of the fare box. 

9 hours ago, JB said:

How has RTA fallen this far? Not even sure what the solution would be at this point other than to clean house.

This falls directly with RTA's leadership and board of trustees.  The erosion of services was drawn out over an extended period of time.  The general manager was was hired in 2000 and stayed at the wheel for 18 1/2 years.  During this time, RTA lost riders and service quality declined.  The answer was to cut services and eliminate routes.  In a normal world, that would have cost the general manager his job.  At RTA, he was rewarded contract extensions, bonuses and pay raises.  Unfortunately, even though Calabrese has been gone for quite a while, many of the people who were hired and/or promoted under his tenure as general manager are still in place.  The trustees never held Calabrese accountable for the decline in the system.  In fact, the system wasn't even able to uncover extensive fraud and theft for extended periods of time.  As for the "philosophy" of operating the system, it appears that it was to "kick the problem down the road" so that the system's leaders in the future would have to deal with it.  That is why the rail car replacement order that should have been placed well over a decade ago has yet to occur.  

On 3/7/2022 at 8:18 AM, Oldmanladyluck said:

Am I the only one who read that and thought, "There has to be more to it than that"? 

 

If there was some type of likely escalation, imagine the college student's embarrassment in getting leveled by someone who is homeless.

It's honestly not hard to believe a panhandler in Cleveland, OH getting aggressive with some innocent person saying no. I've been told to go f*ck myself many times walking in front of the Terminal Tower and else where downtown, as well as being followed. The RTA and transit in general is not supposed to be a homeless shelter or a loitering area. 

Minor RTA service expansion in Solon

 

https://www.facebook.com/100064649323954/posts/327414072756901/?d=n
 

 

On 2/24/2022 at 12:50 PM, E Rocc said:

 

At the risk of triggering another "there you go again" discussion, with free fares, how do you keep the buses and trains from becoming rolling homeless shelters?   Because that's what I see happening unless there's a good way to prevent it.

People with options don't choose not to ride RTA because of the fares.   It's still the cheapest of the alternatives by a good margin.  Make the alternative less pleasant and you can lose those you have.

 

I have not experienced this on the Shaker Rapid.  I rarely take the bus.  Why do think they would become "homeless shelters" and are there multiple examples of homeless on buses, bus shelters, trains and trains station/platforms.  I don't see this as a large problem in Cleveland.

15 hours ago, MyTwoSense said:

 

I have not experienced this on the Shaker Rapid.  I rarely take the bus.  Why do think they would become "homeless shelters" and are there multiple examples of homeless on buses, bus shelters, trains and trains station/platforms.  I don't see this as a large problem in Cleveland.

 

I am discussing the hypothetical of no fares.

Mayor Wu in Boston is certainly trying to make that a reality and has been expanding free fares for a number of heavily used bus lines. Now I have no idea of how MBTA funding works, but, frankly, if she thinks it's beneficial and not too costly to the city and region, then I believe her.

 

Why can't RTA experiment with free fares for a little while, especially now that some commuters may be more apt to use public transportation due to oil and gas being so expensive?

Edited March 10, 20223 yr by TBideon

There were no fares for downtown circulator trolleys.  I don't recall them being rolling homeless shelters.

RTA got some money for new rail cars in this package just passed by the House.

 

House of Representatives passes $1.5 trillion spending bill; See what’s in it for Northeast Ohio

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2022/03/house-of-representatives-passes-15-trillion-spending-bill-see-whats-in-it-for-northeast-ohio.html

Edited March 10, 20223 yr by Mov2Ohio

Between this allocation and the public transportation money in the infrastructure bill, how much funding does RTA still need to get the rail cars replaced? I know they don't have an actual proposal from a manufacturer in hand yet, but a ballpark estimation, @KJP?

Edited March 10, 20223 yr by OliverHazardPerry

2 hours ago, OliverHazardPerry said:

Between this allocation and the public transportation money in the infrastructure bill, how much funding does RTA still need to get the rail cars replaced? I know they don't have an actual proposal from a manufacturer in hand yet, but a ballpark estimation, @KJP?

 

The have what they need to replace the Red Line cars. They don't have enough funding to replace the Blue/Green line cars yet.

On 3/10/2022 at 2:28 PM, Mov2Ohio said:

RTA got some money for new rail cars in this package just passed by the House.

 

House of Representatives passes $1.5 trillion spending bill; See what’s in it for Northeast Ohio

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2022/03/house-of-representatives-passes-15-trillion-spending-bill-see-whats-in-it-for-northeast-ohio.html

 

On 3/10/2022 at 5:28 PM, KJP said:

 

The have what they need to replace the Red Line cars. They don't have enough funding to replace the Blue/Green line cars yet.

The $5 million that Senator Brown included in the $1.5 trillion spending bill is about enough to cover the cost of one rail car.  He should have shifted the decimal point to the right and added a multiplying factor to that amount.  At this pace of securing funding, the yet-to-be-acquired replacement Red Line rail cars will be ready for retirement by the time enough funding is in place to replace the current Blue/Green line rail cars. 

47 minutes ago, LifeLongClevelander said:

 

The $5 million that Senator Brown included in the $1.5 trillion spending bill is about enough to cover the cost of one rail car.  He should have shifted the decimal point to the right and added a multiplying factor to that amount.  At this pace of securing funding, the yet-to-be-acquired replacement Red Line rail cars will be ready for retirement by the time enough funding is in place to replace the current Blue/Green line rail cars. 

Yes, let’s criticize the one major Ohio politician that is actually supporting public transit.

 

I do agree with the balance of your point. We need a lot more government spending on public transit asap. 

On 3/10/2022 at 10:02 AM, E Rocc said:

 

I am discussing the hypothetical of no fares.

I do not believe "no fare" routes would cause a mass explosion of homeless riding buses.  This, in my view, is another self defeatist fear.  A fear that sometime manifests as unfounded reality.

 

The MTA in NYC had free bus rides from May of 2020 to August of 2021 (my dates my be off) and the buses were not over run with homeless people.  Buses, subways and trains were pretty much empty as there was very little vehicular traffic. 

 

In NYC, homeless people are, now, more visible in the subway as there are less riders. 

1 hour ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

Yes, let’s criticize the one major Ohio politician that is actually supporting public transit.

 

I do agree with the balance of your point. We need a lot more government spending on public transit asap. 

Brown has been in office long enough to have made more than enough of a difference.  He was first elected to the Senate in 2006.  He served in Congress during the time that his party had a super, unstoppable majority (2009-2010) when every piece of legislation sponsored by his party was passed and signed into law.  What has he done along with Cuyahoga County's congressional delegation to secure more transit funding, especially when they had the power to do so?  By the way, both Brown and David Joyce helped secure funding for Laketran's electric buses that went into service last year.  He could have easily changed that amount.  Quite obviously from the funding secured and the sponsors of those project, this piece of legislation did have enough support to pass.  A request for $100 million (0.000067%) or even $200 million (0.000133%) of in that $1.5 trillion package.   This nickel and dime approach in seeking funding for the rail car replacement only causes the riders of RTA to suffer.

I really hope you understand our best case alternative is a Rob Portman, GOP member. While I think we can all agree with current trends it’ll be a Matt Gaetz vibe soon enough. I think we’re lucky to have someone like Brown and while also saying yes any/all/more prioritization on transit and urban funding is needed.

10 hours ago, LifeLongClevelander said:

 

The $5 million that Senator Brown included in the $1.5 trillion spending bill is about enough to cover the cost of one rail car.  He should have shifted the decimal point to the right and added a multiplying factor to that amount.  At this pace of securing funding, the yet-to-be-acquired replacement Red Line rail cars will be ready for retirement by the time enough funding is in place to replace the current Blue/Green line rail cars. 

 

That's just the latest tidbit. You know all of the funding pieces that have come together over these last few years. The big chunks of funding come from the Urban Formula grants and there's a lot more resources there now with the new infrastructure authorization.

49 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

That's just the latest tidbit. You know all of the funding pieces that have come together over these last few years. The big chunks of funding come from the Urban Formula grants and there's a lot more resources there now with the new infrastructure authorization.

That is perfectly fine, but what SHOULD have happened is for Senator Brown to find out what exactly is needed to complete funding for the entire purchase.  Having all the funding together and in place ahead of time will make for a better purchase right off the bat.  For prospective bidders to have their bid packages together with a known quantity of 70-76 rail cars yields multiple benefits.  A larger purchase up front will lower the per-unit rail car cost.  Potential add-on options are never a guarantee to be exercised and usually the add-on order(s) when an option or options are exercised, the per-unit cost increases.  Coming to the table knowing a bigger order up front could be more attractive to prospective bidders.  A potentially small order could be a turn off for already busy reliable rail car manufacturers. This will stop this piecemeal aspect of cobbling up the funding. 

 

When options are exercised, the add-on orders then get put on the end of the production schedule.  Aside from drawing out the ordering process up front, the resulting delivery could be considerably later in the future.  Even though the immediate need is to get the Red Line equipment replaced, just how much longer will the Blue/Green line equipment hold out?  Right now, the Breda fleet is 40 years old.  Even if the complete order of replacement rail cars is made in the near future, expect delivery to be about five years from now.  If the option to purchase the Breda replacements is exercised in a couple of years, that fleet will be nearing a half a century in service.  Options for additional rail cars should only be written into the bidding process should an extension of the rail network are planned.  The current state of affairs for RTA's rail system does not qualify.

 

There is no debate on the state of RTA's entire rail car fleet.  It is time for all parties involved to get this completed.  It will resolve a huge operational problem for RTA and certainly will save them money in the long run.  The new fleet will be less expensive and they won't have to waste money trying to keep ever-increasingly unreliable equipment in service.  It is a sad state of affairs to continually read or hear stories that RTA has secured funding for one more rail car here and a few weeks/months later they found more money for another one.  I don't want to hear stories a few years from now that RTA is forced to shut down a branch of the Blue/Green lines due to equipment shortages.  Unfortunately, if this bidding and ordering process is not completed in totality SOON, the above mentioned scenario will almost certainly occur.

Edited March 13, 20223 yr by LifeLongClevelander

But where does the funding come from? Where is the authorization? Most of these kinds of special appropriations are the result of nibbling around the edges of programs that end up with slivers of excess appropriations that are unused by others or are from puchases that come under budget. These unused appropriations are highly competitive. Little ol' Cleveland isn't going to get many of these, especially against the likes of big-boy transit agencies with bigger and better lobbying efforts. 

Hopefully there are some new riders in the mix and its not all returning riders, and RTA is able to hold on to them... Could be some positive momentum for them. 

 

Quote

GCRTA sees ridership increase as fuel prices soar

 

 

By: Jon Rudder

Posted at 9:18 AM, Mar 15, 2022 and last updated 9:18 AM, Mar 15, 2022

 

The price surge has many people scrambling to find alternative modes of transportation and the Greater Cleveland RTA has seen a spike in ridership.

 

“Our January ridership was up about 18% and we're seeing about a 20 to 25% increase over the most recent weeks,” said RTA Chief Operating Officer Floun’say Caver. “For our transit dependent customers, RTA is a lifeline. Our largest mode of ridership is for individuals going to work, schools and health care. And those are critical aspects to having a viable community.”

 

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/cleveland-metro/gcrta-sees-ridership-increase-as-fuel-prices-soar

 
I have not experienced this on the Shaker Rapid.  I rarely take the bus.  Why do think they would become "homeless shelters" and are there multiple examples of homeless on buses, bus shelters, trains and trains station/platforms.  I don't see this as a large problem in Cleveland.

I mean, there are stretches along the red line where broken fare machines and a lack of turnstiles create a free for all. It ain’t pretty.


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But where does the funding come from? Where is the authorization? Most of these kinds of special appropriations are the result of nibbling around the edges of programs that end up with slivers of excess appropriations that are unused by others or are from puchases that come under budget. These unused appropriations are highly competitive. Little ol' Cleveland isn't going to get many of these, especially against the likes of big-boy transit agencies with bigger and better lobbying efforts. 

Showing my ignorance here - but what about a tax levy? If we can raise hundreds of millions of dollars for a failed medical mart and various stadium remodels then surely GCRTA can muster the courage to put something on the ballot. From what Googling I did it appears that there’s been balking at this possibility over the years.


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10 hours ago, ASP1984 said:

Showing my ignorance here - but what about a tax levy? If we can raise hundreds of millions of dollars for a failed medical mart and various stadium remodels then surely GCRTA can muster the courage to put something on the ballot. From what Googling I did it appears that there’s been balking at this possibility over the years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

RTA doesn't want to pursue a tax hike because they think it would fail. They're probably right. But I think it would interesting to test voters' reactions to funding scenarios for a range of potential expansion/realignment plans.

On 3/14/2022 at 8:50 PM, KJP said:

But where does the funding come from? Where is the authorization? Most of these kinds of special appropriations are the result of nibbling around the edges of programs that end up with slivers of excess appropriations that are unused by others or are from puchases that come under budget. These unused appropriations are highly competitive. Little ol' Cleveland isn't going to get many of these, especially against the likes of big-boy transit agencies with bigger and better lobbying efforts. 

Tiny Laketran, much smaller than RTA, has been able to secure some rather substantial,  impressive and significant funding awards.  Their lobbying efforts seem to have worked out quite well.  Per this News Herald article:  https://www.news-herald.com/2022/03/15/laketran-awarded-14-7-million-to-fund-a-renovation-of-main-hq-upgrade-facility/ $32.6 million was awarded to 5 transit agencies in the state.  Laketran led the list with $14.7 million.  $10.1 million went to Southwest Ohio Transit Authority, $4.0 million to RTA, $2.3 million went to Toledo Area Regional Transit Authority and $1.5 million went to Portage Area Regional Transit Authority.  Seems like tiny Laketran stacks up quite well in competing against the "big-boy transit agencies".

Okay, so that funding is out there. Seems like RTA has an ally in the Bibb administration. It's still early so hard to say exactly what ways he will support the agency, but seems like nominating people to the board who are actual riders seems a good place to start. Hopefully a new administration at the county level will be an ally. 

 

How far do those two things get us? 

 

If not very far who is needed where to be able to bring this money in so our transit can be appropriately funded?