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4 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

We're literally the complete opposite of ideal to host this conference. I love taking the train when it makes sense but there are 3, maybe 4 rail stops that are useful and are in the "heart of the action." The rest are after thought stops that requires an uber or additional bus ride to get to where you need to go. I honestly don't even trust it to take to the airport.

 

Waterfront line has to be one of the most underutilized rail lines in the country. The promo video is amazing though, could be used for more than rail. 

I don't disagree, but on the other hand, Cleveland has way more rail than most American cities of its size. Good bones and potential can make for an interesting place for a rail conference. I think you could make the argument that Cleveland is one of the best mid-sized city candidates. And maybe it will motivate RTA to do the bare minimum like getting the waterfront line up and running. 

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10 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

We're literally the complete opposite of ideal to host this conference. I love taking the train when it makes sense but there are 3, maybe 4 rail stops that are useful and are in the "heart of the action." The rest are after thought stops that requires an uber or additional bus ride to get to where you need to go. I honestly don't even trust it to take to the airport.

 

Waterfront line has to be one of the most underutilized rail lines in the country. The promo video is amazing though, could be used for more than rail. 

I agree on most of your critiques here, but Cleveland is still better for rail transit than all but a handful of American cities. Obviously that’s an issue with the US. If someone is coming from a city with one of the small streetcar “systems” or any of the cities with no rail at all, the Rapid looks great by comparison. And having both heavy and light rail on the same tracks is genuinely interesting to transit nerds (even though we’re rightfully moving away from that). Furthermore, the maintenance facility is quite good!

When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?

34 minutes ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

I agree on most of your critiques here, but Cleveland is still better for rail transit than all but a handful of American cities. Obviously that’s an issue with the US. If someone is coming from a city with one of the small streetcar “systems” or any of the cities with no rail at all, the Rapid looks great by comparison. And having both heavy and light rail on the same tracks is genuinely interesting to transit nerds (even though we’re rightfully moving away from that). Furthermore, the maintenance facility is quite good!

I'm in Nashville for work for the week and it's a $hitshow here.   If ever a town needed a good rail transit system, this is it.  And from talking to the locals there is no political will or interest. 

 

Hopefully some of the minimal TOD on the RTA system generates interest and gets people on the trains with a voice to demand improvements in Cleveland.  

2 hours ago, Ethan said:

And maybe it will motivate RTA to do the bare minimum like getting the waterfront line up and running. 

I bet this is why the Red Line is getting new seats. That plus the fabric makes cleaning harder and more time consuming. 

On 4/25/2024 at 11:13 AM, Ethan said:

I don't disagree, but on the other hand, Cleveland has way more rail than most American cities of its size. Good bones and potential can make for an interesting place for a rail conference. I think you could make the argument that Cleveland is one of the best mid-sized city candidates. And maybe it will motivate RTA to do the bare minimum like getting the waterfront line up and running. 


Definitely way better than our limited options down here in Cincy

On 4/11/2024 at 11:11 AM, TBideon said:

 

Leadership - city, county, RTA - should be consulting with top business leaders and rich families, creating unique incentives for RTA use. Fully subsidized passes, tax holidays, booze allowances, vendors, performance artists, visible proactive security, quiet and leisure cars, bar/attraction hopping events, singles events, s**t, anything to get people's butt on seats. And visible security at the some of the major RTA lots. You leave your car at some of those stops, you never know what you'll find when you return.

 

Really, we just need more bodies on the trains to save public transit. That comes before added funding.

 

Correct, it's just very poorly marketed. And local leaders seem barely interested in changing that.

2 hours ago, mu2010 said:

 

Correct, it's just very poorly marketed. And local leaders seem barely interested in changing that.

Holy cow @mu2010 sighting! Where have you been?

When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?

12 hours ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

Holy cow @mu2010 sighting! Where have you been?

 

Hi Brian! I had to step back from the internet a few years ago because I checked my phone too much. UO was mostly an unfair casualty of that, it was mostly Reddit that was the problem. There is a big project across the street from my house in Lakewood that finally got me to sign back in the other day. I'll try to start dropping in a little more often 😀 

Edited by mu2010

2 hours ago, mu2010 said:

 

Hi Brian! I had to step back from the internet a few years ago because I checked my phone too much. UO was mostly an unfair casualty of that, it was mostly Reddit that was the problem. There is a big project across the street from my house in Lakewood that finally got me to sign back in the other day. I'll try to start dropping in a little more often 😀 

Ha, I wish I had that level of self control. Welcome back!

When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?

  • Author

Waterfront-Line-FlatsEastBank-090218-2-N

 

CSU students: here’s how to get the Waterfront Line on track…
By Ken Prendergast / May 8, 2024

 

When a group of 16 urban planning graduate students from Cleveland State University (CSU) took a critical look at the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority’s (GCRTA) light-rail Waterfront Line, they unsurprisingly found a number of things lacking. But there were some surprises discovered during their research that could boost ridership if addressed effectively.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2024/05/08/csu-students-heres-how-to-get-the-waterfront-line-on-track/

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

6 hours ago, KJP said:

Waterfront-Line-FlatsEastBank-090218-2-N

 

CSU students: here’s how to get the Waterfront Line on track…
By Ken Prendergast / May 8, 2024

 

When a group of 16 urban planning graduate students from Cleveland State University (CSU) took a critical look at the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority’s (GCRTA) light-rail Waterfront Line, they unsurprisingly found a number of things lacking. But there were some surprises discovered during their research that could boost ridership if addressed effectively.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2024/05/08/csu-students-heres-how-to-get-the-waterfront-line-on-track/

 

Hey RTA -- don't turn away.  Bring the students in to present to your board and system planners.  Listen and read their reports.  Discuss what you can do to make RTA better.

Unless I glossed over it...I wish they would have included the idea of making the waterfront line a loop.

12 hours ago, KJP said:

Waterfront-Line-FlatsEastBank-090218-2-N

 

CSU students: here’s how to get the Waterfront Line on track…
By Ken Prendergast / May 8, 2024

 

When a group of 16 urban planning graduate students from Cleveland State University (CSU) took a critical look at the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority’s (GCRTA) light-rail Waterfront Line, they unsurprisingly found a number of things lacking. But there were some surprises discovered during their research that could boost ridership if addressed effectively.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2024/05/08/csu-students-heres-how-to-get-the-waterfront-line-on-track/

I really appreciate the work they put in and there are many good suggestions, but I’m going to pick on one idea that I strongly dislike:

IMG_1067.jpeg.61c5247b3eb7ad22b0448056fa2368de.jpeg

A parking garage there would not drive ridership (and would be really expensive). This lot should be a high rise above an infill station on the Red Line and the east end station of light rail crossing the lower deck of the Detroit Superior Bridge. 


If a parking garage is going to be added, it should be at the end of the rail line, not at the heart of the transit system. 

When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?

  • Author

Their goal was to add parking garages to make it possible to eliminate the surface lots along the line. If I'm going to a restaurant in the Flats, I'm not going to park at a garage at the Muni lot and then take the Waterfront Line several stops to go have dinner. I'd want a garage within a short walk of where I'm going to eat.

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

8 hours ago, KJP said:

 If I'm going to a restaurant in the Flats, I'm not going to park at a garage at the Muni lot and then take the Waterfront Line several stops to go have dinner. I'd want a garage within a short walk of where I'm going to eat.

And this gets to the mentality that is the problem.  Parking within "a short walk of where we're going" to most Americans (who live in transit-free suburbs) means walking no further than the parking lot at their destination.

 

If you lived in London or Paris or Tokyo you could walk 10-15 minutes to a metro/trolley station and then walk 10-15 minutes to your destination in almost any other part of the city.  Part of the reason why no one in Cleveland will drive to the muni lot and THEN take transit is because the Waterfront line doesn't run frequently enough and doesn't pass within a 15-minute walk of enough destinations. Moreover, too many people don't live anywhere near a transit line and so have to drive somewhere just to access the transit system.

 

If I were leading RTA -- step 1,  make transit frequent (15-minute headways) and convenient (just a phone-swipe away, or free!).  If that means reducing the transit network's reach, so be it -- I'd at least want to test how people felt about RTA after six months with shorter headway and easier boarding.  Also, emphasize service, cleanliness, safety.  Step 2, make transit reach lots of places (particularly large employers -- CSU, Tri-C, hospitals) in the city core -- run a bus from the end of the Waterfront line along the route for a proposed expansion, try to optimize the route and then use the ridership to justify the expansion (coordinate bus and waterfront line connections, run 15-minute headways!).  Step 3, after steps 1 and 2, make it easier to take transit from outlying areas into the denser transit network (and outlying transit routes should be deprioritized until after completing step 1!) 

 

I know, the "how" is a lot harder than knowing the outcome you want -- but I'll never be asked to head RTA anyway.

RTA considers spending $1.2 million to continue EZfare mobile ticketing

by Anastazia Vanisko and Cleveland Documenters

May 14, 2024

 

Quote

The Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority’s contract with the EZfare mobile ticketing app is driving towards renewal. RTA’s Board of Trustees approved a two-year contract in last week’s committee meetings, teeing it up for final consideration by the full board on May 21.

 

Josh Miranda, RTA’s director of Management Information Systems, said the app generated $2.77 million in ticket sales as of March 2024. When RTA began using the app in 2022, it generated a little less than that in five months. In 2023, total sales via EZfare were $7.66 million. The contract renewal itself would cost $1.2 million over two years.

 

...

 

Shawn Becker, a program contract manager with RTA, said they are working to install more ticket validators for mobile tickets throughout the transit system and in Tower City. He said the goal is to deploy the validators within the next 12 months after having further conversations about fare structure and strategy.

 

https://signalcleveland.org/cleveland-rta-considers-spending-1-2-million-to-continue-ezfare-mobile-ticketing/

  • Author

🚨 Attention Red Line Riders! At the start of service on Friday, May 17, westbound trains to the airport at Tower City Station will no longer board at Track 7 via the elevator and stairs on Level M2. Instead, you will return to normal boarding via Track 8, located in the #GCRTA Rotunda. Happy travels! https://bit.ly/43O22c1

 

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

  • Author

With four people on the train including the driver. Terrible added clickety-clack sound-effect of jointed rail -- the Red Line has seamless welded rails as just about every main track does these days.

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

  • Author

FYI.....

 

 

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

"All GCRTA Blue Line stations in Shaker Heights to be rebuilt By Ken Prendergast"

 

Ken, you really can do it all!

  • Author
55 minutes ago, jam40jeff said:

"All GCRTA Blue Line stations in Shaker Heights to be rebuilt By Ken Prendergast"

 

Ken, you really can do it all!

 

Took me a bit to get the joke!

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

10 hours ago, KJP said:

 

Took me a bit to get the joke!

Maybe next, you can reroute Amtrak through CUT.

  • Author

Let me try world peace, first. 😉

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

  • Author

Want to take the train in Cleveland this summer? Nyet!!

 

 

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

  • Author

Cool video. It's great to have a rail system even if we haven't decided to take advantage of it 

 

 

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

  • Author

Nice little GCRTA train graphic on Siemens' PR at the APTA conference which is in Cleveland this week

 

GPOv1bkXIAA4fJh?format=jpg&name=large

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

39 minutes ago, KJP said:

Nice little GCRTA train graphic on Siemens' PR at the APTA conference which is in Cleveland this week

 

GPOv1bkXIAA4fJh?format=jpg&name=large

Never have seen a side profile of this train before, looks great. 

1 hour ago, KJP said:

Nice little GCRTA train graphic on Siemens' PR at the APTA conference which is in Cleveland this week

 

GPOv1bkXIAA4fJh?format=jpg&name=large

I assume the conference will be over before RTA starts shutting down the rail lines for maintenance

22 minutes ago, bjk said:

I assume the conference will be over before RTA starts shutting down the rail lines for maintenance

There is already some single-tracking going on the Redline east of Tower City.   30 minute intervals to Windemere.  Though this is better than shutting it down entirely. 

6 hours ago, Cleburger said:

There is already some single-tracking going on the Redline east of Tower City.   30 minute intervals to Windemere.  Though this is better than shutting it down entirely. 

They couldn't wait a few more days??

  • Author

Waterfront Line to operate this Saturday, June 15...but only after 4:45 pm. Why not run it all day, especially so that train operators can settle into a routine by the time the concert crowds start showing up?

 

 

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

5 hours ago, KJP said:

Waterfront Line to operate this Saturday, June 15...but only after 4:45 pm. Why not run it all day, especially so that train operators can settle into a routine by the time the concert crowds start showing up?

 

 

I plan on visiting Cleveland for my birthday in August and my only birthday wish is that the Waterfront Line is back up and running on a regular schedule.  Here's to another birthday wish not coming true, lol.

22 hours ago, JohnOSU99 said:

I plan on visiting Cleveland for my birthday in August and my only birthday wish is that the Waterfront Line is back up and running on a regular schedule.  Here's to another birthday wish not coming true, lol.

Maybe there will be a Browns preseason game and they’ll run it. 

When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?

  • 2 weeks later...
  • Author

It's sad what we've become. I sure hope GCRTA gets more aggressive in seeking the redevelopment of its park-n-ride lots to justify this massive investment in new trains. Development doesn't just happen. It has to be clearly defined and encouraged.

 

 

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

3 hours ago, KJP said:

It's sad what we've become. I sure hope GCRTA gets more aggressive in seeking the redevelopment of its park-n-ride lots to justify this massive investment in new trains. Development doesn't just happen. It has to be clearly defined and encouraged.

 

 

Redevelopment of park n rides and existing stations will help a lot, but we desperately need more than 5 useful stops, and a nice Downtown circulator. I talk to people all the time Downtown at places like Noble Beast and Masthead that live near a train stop and want to take it, but drive. 

 

During the 9-5 work hours, they could take a 16 minute train trip from Shaker Square, and a 6 minute Trolley ride(although most people don't even know the B-Line exists). That's very competitive with driving. On a Saturday afternoon, it's a 16 minute train followed by likely walking 25-30 minutes. The lack of any transit to get around Downtown really limits the use of the trains for most people. Unfortunately most of our TOD is not very effective outside of the weekday 9-5. 

 

I think a streetcar in Cleveland would beat Cincy's ridership numbers by a good margin, along with boosting ridership on our existing routes. We have more people living Downtown, more college students along the route, more athletic events throughout the year, the 2nd largest theater district that is busy year round, and better transit options to get people Downtown to use the streetcar. 

Edited by PlanCleveland
Typo

^^  They seem to honestly believe that buses are as good as trains.

 

Perhaps that means they believe that people willing to take a train are willing to take a bus to get to the station.   That's not usually the case.

On 6/11/2024 at 4:29 AM, KJP said:

Waterfront Line to operate this Saturday, June 15...but only after 4:45 pm. Why not run it all day, especially so that train operators can settle into a routine by the time the concert crowds start showing up?

 

 

 

It's also shutting down too early if they want people to partake in downtown.

  • Author
27 minutes ago, PlanCleveland said:

Redevelopment of park n rides and existing stations will help a lot, but we desperately need more than 5 useful stops, and a nice Downtown circulator. I talk to people all the time Downtown at places like Noble Beast and Masthead that live near a train stop and want to take it, but drive. 

 

Developing park-n-ride lots makes the stops useful again and for a new paradigm. Converting park-n-ride lots into transit villages creates new transit destinations, etc. Perhaps you have a different vision of what developing a park-n-ride lot means than I do. To me, some of these lots are big enough that they can become new communities that are comparable to the Market District, Little Italy, Shaker Square, Van Aken District, Gold Coast, Downtown Rocky River, etc. I wrote a NEOtrans article last August "Lots of opportunity" about how much land is involved and how many housing units and neighborhood-scale retail square footage could be added by developing these unused spaces that may otherwise never be used again. If developed with transit-supportive housing levels (30 units per acre) and a typical amount of neighborhood retail for that housing, it would add tens of thousands of housing units and hundreds of thousands of square feet of retail space. Then we do a Toronto and start marketing ourselves to immigrants and refugees around the world with business incubators/advisory clinics at each station and promote ourselves as a climate-friendly place to live.

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

1 hour ago, KJP said:

 

Developing park-n-ride lots makes the stops useful again and for a new paradigm. Converting park-n-ride lots into transit villages creates new transit destinations, etc. Perhaps you have a different vision of what developing a park-n-ride lot means than I do. To me, some of these lots are big enough that they can become new communities that are comparable to the Market District, Little Italy, Shaker Square, Van Aken District, Gold Coast, Downtown Rocky River, etc. I wrote a NEOtrans article last August "Lots of opportunity" about how much land is involved and how many housing units and neighborhood-scale retail square footage could be added by developing these unused spaces that may otherwise never be used again. If developed with transit-supportive housing levels (30 units per acre) and a typical amount of neighborhood retail for that housing, it would add tens of thousands of housing units and hundreds of thousands of square feet of retail space. Then we do a Toronto and start marketing ourselves to immigrants and refugees around the world with business incubators/advisory clinics at each station and promote ourselves as a climate-friendly place to live.

No I completely agree with you on all of this, and that was a fantastic article.  My phrasing was poor, apologies. I didn't mean to make it sound like these were competing ideas, they are complementary.  Developing the park n ride lots will create more useful stops/destinations and puts thousands of riders a 2 minute walk from a stop.  They should be a top priority.  

 

Improving Downtown transit is, in my opinion, a necessary step and an effective way to boost ridership on the existing trains, along with continuing Downtown's population growth.  I can't think of a single great major city without at least 1 good downtown transit option.  You're limiting your potential growth without it.  There should be an option to get from the Warehouse District to Playhouse Square and CSU, from the Convention Center to the Tower City trains, etc. on transit. By not having a good way to get around once dropped off at Tower City, we're limiting the effectiveness of the main stop in our network and cutting off a huge chunk of people who could use it.  It would make Downtown a more attractive and easier place to live, and help fill in more parking craters with people. 

 

If these projects do start filling in park n rides, it would be much easier to attract more development and more residents to them if they can now access all of the benefits of Downtown in any weather by barely stepping outside.  And likely with a discounted transit pass by living there.  Walk 1 minute to the station, get on one of the new trains to Tower City, walk out the front doors, and board a streetcar to take you within a 5 minute walk of anywhere Downtown.  There are soooo many young adults in the area who want to but can't afford to live near Downtown, this could be a very attractive option for them.

Edited by PlanCleveland

Cleveland and the rest of the US prioritizes automobile use so thoroughly I don't see any way this ever changes. Consider the Van Aken district, with healthy development and more on the way. I've never seen anyone use the Blue line to travel here other than myself. Tons of parking though! It's just too easy to jump in the car!

 

Downtown is suffering as a work destination. Development of park and ride lots, while an excellent idea is also dependent on a healthy downtown as the central destination for all of these termini, or at least as a reliable and efficient pass-through to other developed, former park and ride destinations.

  • Author

Why does the development of park-n-ride lots depend on a healthy downtown? What if land surrounding all rail stations was used in an equally potent manner as transit-trip generators?

 

And yes, when you have to drive to a rapid station to take the train to the Van Aken District, people are going to drive the entire way. Consider this paragraph from my article "Cleveland TOD initiative on track" --

 

Consider that, within a quarter-mile “walkshed” of bus routes offering daytime departures every 15 minutes or better and within a half-mile walkshed of rail stations, only 17 percent of land in those areas is used for buildings; 25 percent is used for parking, according to a new report by the Cuyahoga County Planning Commission. And buildings — especially when designed with mixed uses and placed next to sidewalks — generate walking and transit use, Hewitt said. Another 45 percent of land is devoted to greenspace and 12 percent of land use near transit stops was identified as roads.

 

More than twice of the land surrounding a high-frequency transit service stop is devoted to cars than it is for buildings that are the biggest generator of transit trips. Until that number is reversed (heck, even equalized would make a big difference), few people with choices will choose transit in Cleveland.

 

BTW, there's other, more disturbing numbers in that TOD article.

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

On 6/21/2024 at 5:08 PM, KJP said:

It's sad what we've become. I sure hope GCRTA gets more aggressive in seeking the redevelopment of its park-n-ride lots to justify this massive investment in new trains. Development doesn't just happen. It has to be clearly defined and encouraged.

 

 

What is the "1st most underutilized" heavy rail system? 

3 hours ago, Cleburger said:

What is the "1st most underutilized" heavy rail system? 

The Puerto Rico Tren Urbano metro in San Juan. While by some metrics it does outperform the Red Line, total annual ridership is lower. 
 

When RTA consolidates the fleet, the whole system becomes “light rail”, which will put RTA in the middle of the pack of USA Light Rail System ridership instead of at the bottom of both Heavy and Light Rail lists. Hooray, I guess?

When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?

14 hours ago, KJP said:

BTW, there's other, more disturbing numbers in that TOD article.

Your article is nearly 2 years old, but it mentions housing density thresholds for high-frequency transit.

Quote

 . . . Federal Transit Administration data which considers a density of 25-35 housing units per acre as supportive of high-frequency transit. Cleveland uses 30 units per acres as its threshold.

Do you have a housing density map for Cuyahoga County? 

  • Author
2 hours ago, Foraker said:

Your article is nearly 2 years old, but it mentions housing density thresholds for high-frequency transit.

Do you have a housing density map for Cuyahoga County? 

 

Sort of. I have housing densities for the urban core of Cleveland, as well as for overall density in Cleveland that also shows some inner-ring suburbs where most of the housing density is located. The other maps/charts show how much transit-supportive zoning there is within high-frequency transit corridors -- it's only 5.5% of land area or if you want to push it, 21.6% of land area is somewhat supportive or better. That's still pretty bad.

 

The dark blue areas in this map show where housing densities are 30 units per acre or better, the minimum threshold for transit-supportive housing density...

Transit supportive housing 30-units-per-acre census tracts CPC.jpg

 

Again, blue is transit-supportive housing density in Cleveland and inner-ring suburbs. Not a lot of blue on there...

Transit density-15minute nodes Cleveland.jpg

 

You can't have transit supportive density if your zoning doesn't allow for it. And the darker the green, the more transit supportive the zoning is...

Transit supportive zoning in high-frequency transit routes-station Cuyahoga County-1.JPG

 

This is using those color codes to measure how much applied zoning is transit-supportive and how much isn't. In other words, we don't allow land use to be transit-supportive, even in high-frequency transit corridors. And that's a big reason why our transit ridership is so low...

Transit supportive zoning in high-frequency transit routes-station Cuyahoga County-2.JPG

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

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