July 26, 2024Jul 26 Author Despite everything that's wrong with Cleveland's transit system, we're still very fortunate to have this and need to capitalize on it more. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 26, 2024Jul 26 On 7/24/2024 at 12:08 PM, LibertyBlvd said: ^ I hope they all paid. The bus drivers usually wont go if everyone doesn't walk to the front to validate passes. It's a pretty terrible experience when you're trying to get somewhere fast. If we're going to insist on proof of payment they should at least have places by the doors to validate so you don't need to walk up the aisle and back down the aisle. Edited July 26, 2024Jul 26 by GISguy
July 26, 2024Jul 26 1 hour ago, KJP said: Despite everything that's wrong with Cleveland's transit system, we're still very fortunate to have this and need to capitalize on it more. Actually looks like a decent amount of people right there.
July 26, 2024Jul 26 31 minutes ago, JB said: Actually looks like a decent amount of people right there. I took the Red Line to the guards game the other night. Train was reasonably full on the way there with lots of non-game people. Even more impressive, in both directions the train operator made stop announcements that were clear and easy to understand, unlike most RTA operators.
July 26, 2024Jul 26 3 hours ago, Cleburger said: I took the Red Line to the guards game the other night. Train was reasonably full on the way there with lots of non-game people. Even more impressive, in both directions the train operator made stop announcements that were clear and easy to understand, unlike most RTA operators. Every once in a while, I'll come to town and take the rapid into downtown. I know the route and have the maps and it was still hard to figure out what the driver was announcing. I kept thinking how awful it would be for visitors.
July 26, 2024Jul 26 29 minutes ago, TMart said: Every once in a while, I'll come to town and take the rapid into downtown. I know the route and have the maps and it was still hard to figure out what the driver was announcing. I kept thinking how awful it would be for visitors. *mumble mumble* *mumble closing* Edited July 26, 2024Jul 26 by GISguy
July 26, 2024Jul 26 I hope someone at RTA is reading this article -- following on the Amazon business model of making buying goods "cheap, easy, and good" and applying it to transit, the article suggests: Cheap -- Quote Free transit would be ideal, but with all the political barriers to securing reliable funding, shifting fare collection to a low-cost, subscription-based model would present a new value proposition to the user. On a monthly or yearly pass that grants holders unlimited trips, there is a set number of trips after which the pass is a better value than buying individual tickets. Beyond that threshold, additional trips feel cheaper or free, incentivizing more transit use. Easy -- Quote Transit transfer locations with more than 100 transfers per day should have other services available right at the transit station or stop. Key transit locations could leverage leasable assets, incentivize localized private leasing activity, and pursue co-development opportunities for small grocery, convenience retail, and services to create more convenient access to neighborhood features. [TOD! TOD! TOD!] Good -- Quote Good service means being able to get from one major transit station to another across town in 20 or 30 minutes [RELIABLY -- every time]. That’s a service that convinces people not to drive. https://nextcity.org/urbanist-news/cheap-easy-good-we-need-to-think-like-amazon-to-decarbonize-transportation
July 29, 2024Jul 29 On 7/26/2024 at 3:30 PM, TMart said: Every once in a while, I'll come to town and take the rapid into downtown. I know the route and have the maps and it was still hard to figure out what the driver was announcing. I kept thinking how awful it would be for visitors. I know most other rapid transit systems around the world have the recorded stop names preloaded into the system that syncs up with travel. I'm assuming the new RTA Siemens trains will have that feature given that they also have updated/electronic displays. So hopefully in the future the drivers won't have to use the radio to make announcements and they will be loud and clear *fingers crossed*
July 30, 2024Jul 30 The smallest of baby steps, but at least they are steps in the right direction. When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
July 30, 2024Jul 30 31 minutes ago, Boomerang_Brian said: The smallest of baby steps, but at least they are steps in the right direction. 7pm????? That's when the early birds are beginning to arrive downtown.
July 30, 2024Jul 30 Setting it up for failure quite openly. Seems like RTA really just wants to end this experiment once and for all. 30 years and tens of millions wasted for nothing.
July 30, 2024Jul 30 RTA doesn't seem to realize that the waterfront line is serving the East Bank of the Flats. That's not really a 7pm crowd...
July 31, 2024Jul 31 lol what are these people doing? Have it run late, feel like you could make a decent amount of cash just from the Flats stop.
July 31, 2024Jul 31 Or maybe the rail line needs to be shut down after all. So much expense for such a short distance for so few people. It's like the Detroit People Mover. An incomplete project with barely any use - at some point you need to cut your losses.
July 31, 2024Jul 31 Author 50 minutes ago, TBideon said: Or maybe the rail line needs to be shut down after all. So much expense for such a short distance for so few people. It's like the Detroit People Mover. An incomplete project with barely any use - at some point you need to cut your losses. GCRTA can't. They used federal funds to rebuild the long bridge and rebuild street crossings. If you shut down the line without using it for 20 or 30 years (I forgot which), you have refund the money to the feds. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 31, 2024Jul 31 Author RTA Waterfront Line returns with limited service By Ken Prendergast / July 31, 2024 Starting Sunday, the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority (GCRTA) will restart regular service on the light-rail Waterfront Line in Downtown Cleveland, a 2.2-mile extension of the Blue/Green lines from Shaker Heights. But the service will be limited to weekends and most federal holidays only, and then from just 9 a.m. to 7 p.m. MORE: https://neo-trans.blog/2024/07/31/rta-waterfront-line-returns-with-limited-service/ "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 31, 2024Jul 31 Could be a crazy idea, but maybe the waterfront line should be decoupled from the blue/green lines...? With as short as the line is I would think higher frequency could be achieved fairly cheaply if this was just running between tower city and the muni lot. Have a few trains doing just this short section with ~five minute headways, it could function more like a downtown streetcar than a commuter line. Just an idea, it may not be a good one, but it seems like RTA could use ideas at this point.
July 31, 2024Jul 31 36 minutes ago, Ethan said: Could be a crazy idea, but maybe the waterfront line should be decoupled from the blue/green lines...? With as short as the line is I would think higher frequency could be achieved fairly cheaply if this was just running between tower city and the muni lot. Have a few trains doing just this short section with ~five minute headways, it could function more like a downtown streetcar than a commuter line. Just an idea, it may not be a good one, but it seems like RTA could use ideas at this point. Make it into a downtown loop! Even crazier idea if it went to Ohio City somehow. I live near Playhouse/Progressive Field. Public square is the longest walk I'd consider to be furthest distance for it to still be insignificant. Anything else feels starts to feel like a bit of a hike. I have barely been to the Warehouse district or the Flats since living here because its close enough where driving/uber feels silly and wasteful, but far enough where I would prefer to not walk back considering the weather or late at night after I've enjoyed a beverage or two. I'd imagine plenty of folks that live over that way wouldn't mind getting to Heinen's or Progressive Field a little easier either. A loop would make downtown so much more accessible as a whole. Especially for the CSU students. Someone posted some pretty routes for just this not too long ago if I remember correctly. I'd love some kind of streetcar that goes across the Lorain-Carnegie Bridge, up W 25th, and back over the Detroit-Superior Bridge. I know they are doing the BRT line but it still doesn't "loop." Maybe a Downtown BRT loop could work but id rather a train of some sort.
July 31, 2024Jul 31 16 minutes ago, Zagapi said: Make it into a downtown loop! Even crazier idea if it went to Ohio City somehow. I live near Playhouse/Progressive Field. Public square is the longest walk I'd consider to be furthest distance for it to still be insignificant. Anything else feels starts to feel like a bit of a hike. I have barely been to the Warehouse district or the Flats since living here because its close enough where driving/uber feels silly and wasteful, but far enough where I would prefer to not walk back considering the weather or late at night after I've enjoyed a beverage or two. I'd imagine plenty of folks that live over that way wouldn't mind getting to Heinen's or Progressive Field a little easier either. A loop would make downtown so much more accessible as a whole. Especially for the CSU students. Someone posted some pretty routes for just this not too long ago if I remember correctly. I'd love some kind of streetcar that goes across the Lorain-Carnegie Bridge, up W 25th, and back over the Detroit-Superior Bridge. I know they are doing the BRT line but it still doesn't "loop." Maybe a Downtown BRT loop could work but id rather a train of some sort. It's a tough sell politically to convince people to spend large amounts of money to upgrade and extend a system precisely because it's underutilized. That may be what's needed, but good luck convincing the City/voters that the best use of limited funds is to put good money after bad. Realistically, I don't think there's much chance of a waterfront line extension until and unless more people start riding it. We can't even get RTA to commit to normal hours. The main thrust of my idea was a way to make it financially feasible for RTA to drastically increase frequency. Even if it looped, this service just wouldn't be that useful at 15 minute intervals, it needs to be more frequent. Affordable baby steps. Hopefully with more frequency you'll see more riders, if that happens maybe looping is back on the table (though I'm not sure a downtown loop is actually the best possible rail extension).
July 31, 2024Jul 31 1 hour ago, Ethan said: Could be a crazy idea, but maybe the waterfront line should be decoupled from the blue/green lines...? With as short as the line is I would think higher frequency could be achieved fairly cheaply if this was just running between tower city and the muni lot. Have a few trains doing just this short section with ~five minute headways, it could function more like a downtown streetcar than a commuter line. Just an idea, it may not be a good one, but it seems like RTA could use ideas at this point. The whole blue/green combination should be revisited. They both go between Shaker Square and downtown and neither goes to UC or CC?
July 31, 2024Jul 31 23 minutes ago, Ethan said: I don't think there's much chance of a waterfront line extension until and unless more people start riding it. But more people won't start riding it until it is extended.
July 31, 2024Jul 31 Weren't there rumors some years ago here that Green might be shutting down? It does feel quite redundant to Blue. Edited July 31, 2024Jul 31 by TBideon
July 31, 2024Jul 31 15 minutes ago, E Rocc said: The whole blue/green combination should be revisited. They both go between Shaker Square and downtown and neither goes to UC or CC? Only the red line gets anywhere near UH or CC. However, when the rail cars are unified there may be possibilities of creating combined or new lines on existing rail.
July 31, 2024Jul 31 27 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said: But more people won't start riding it until it is extended. That very well may be true, but if that's the case I wouldn't bet on it happening anytime soon. "Because no one's using it currently," is a very bad answer to "Why should I fund your project?" Not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but that's reality as I see it. Money is always hard to come by; decision makers want to be confident they're making good choices. It's hard to be confident in a doubling down on what has to look to policy makers as a mistake at this juncture... I'd love for Cleveland to have a metro system the caliber of a similarly sized European city, but we can't just hop from here to there, we have to chart a course, and that's going to rely on many, very small steps. Opening up the waterfront line on weekends is one such step. Hopefully it's soon followed by opening for nights and evenings, then full hours, greater frequency, some TOD in the form of lakefront development, etc. Edit: I'd actually argue that the most recent daytime weekend opening was too small of a step, unlikely to significantly increase ridership, so I guess I'd amend baby-steps to appropriately sized steps.
July 31, 2024Jul 31 8 minutes ago, Ethan said: Money is always hard to come by; decision makers want to be confident they're making good choices. It's hard to be confident in a doubling down on what has to look to policy makers as a mistake at this juncture... I'd love for Cleveland to have a metro system the caliber of a similarly sized European city, but we can't just hop from here to there, we have to chart a course, and that's going to rely on many, very small steps. Opening up the waterfront line on weekends is one such step. Hopefully it's soon followed by opening for nights and evenings, then full hours, greater frequency, some TOD in the form of lakefront development, etc. Indeed And yet -- if Ohio and Cuyahoga County and Cleveland cannot afford a world-class metro, then how about a BRT loop with signal control? Is RTA is silently waiting for funding and vision?
July 31, 2024Jul 31 Author 52 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said: But more people won't start riding it until it is extended. Need to see more development along it. The CSU report report showed how much of those parking lots along the WFL are city owned. Development with uses that create a transit lifestyle and ridership will go up. 52 minutes ago, TBideon said: Weren't there rumors some years ago here that Green might be shutting down? It does feel quite redundant to Blue. As bad as the Blue Line ridership is, the Green Line ridership is abysmal. Unless a better ridership anchor to it than an empty parking lot is built at the east end, it will surely die. GCRTA could build a short connecting track to link the Shaker Trunk Line with the Red Line. But they'll want to gold plate it by double-tracking it because RTA doesn't trust its train operators to avoid crashing into other trains. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
July 31, 2024Jul 31 3 hours ago, KJP said: But they'll want to gold plate it by double-tracking it because RTA doesn't trust its train operators to avoid crashing into other trains. Not sure if you actually know or not, but do you think that is a legitimate concern? Or just an excuse for them to not do anything? Especially because the frequencies of these lines is so sparse it would make collisions very unlikely.
July 31, 2024Jul 31 Was recently in Calgary and got a taste of Cleveland's future train cars, as their newer rolling stock is the same as the RTA's future trains. Seemed pretty good to me and I'll be looking forward to Cleveland having a unified system. Side note - Calgary has a lowkey impressive downtown, albeit a bit generic. I'm thinking it has got to be the most built up city center in North America among mid-sized metro areas (it's metro is smaller than any of the three C's, for now). Has a dense skyline with lots of highrises going up all over the place. Their rail system seemed to be well utilized, even beyond rush hour, despite most of it outside of the city center running down the center of highways. Apparently it's the second most used light rail system in North America. On 7/29/2024 at 1:32 PM, Geowizical said: I know most other rapid transit systems around the world have the recorded stop names preloaded into the system that syncs up with travel. I'm assuming the new RTA Siemens trains will have that feature given that they also have updated/electronic displays. So hopefully in the future the drivers won't have to use the radio to make announcements and they will be loud and clear *fingers crossed* The trains in Calgary had pre-recorded announcements so this should be happening when Cleveland gets theirs. Edited July 31, 2024Jul 31 by Rustbelter
July 31, 2024Jul 31 5 hours ago, TBideon said: Weren't there rumors some years ago here that Green might be shutting down? It does feel quite redundant to Blue. The Green Line should be run as a trolley car north of Shaker Square, then down Fairmont/Cedar, and end at University circle (potentially making a loop). Something like the concepts that many on this forum have come up with. In the longer term future it could then be leveraged to continue as a streetcar down Euclid to replace the BTR(ish) Health Line.
August 1, 2024Aug 1 2 hours ago, Rustbelter said: The Green Line should be run as a trolley car north of Shaker Square, then down Fairmont/Cedar, and end at University circle (potentially making a loop). Something like the concepts that many on this forum have come up with. In the longer term future it could then be leveraged to continue as a streetcar down Euclid to replace the BTR(ish) Health Line. It would be a massive project, but this would be my big pitch for the green line. It'd improve 2 different dense corridors, while also connecting both of them. Also connecting UC, Fairmount, Coventry, Cedar/Lee, and University Heights. If the 10 bus from Glenville to Slavic Village was also upgraded to a streetcar corridor, then the line could also follow that until rejoining the blue line. But we barely have enough money to operate the WFL, so this isn't even in the cards:( Edited August 1, 2024Aug 1 by PlanCleveland
August 1, 2024Aug 1 Accidentally duplicated the post while trying to edit. Edited August 1, 2024Aug 1 by PlanCleveland
August 3, 2024Aug 3 unfooortunately this was not for what we really want it to be for — 😭 https://www.instagram.com/reel/C9TJcd0p85F/?igsh=MWh5ejlyanVmN3FycQ==
August 6, 2024Aug 6 I've been thinking and I came up with 2 conclusions. 1. If the WFL is going to be a part time train I'd rather it run from 5 PM - 2 AM to serve some rush hour traffic and Nightlife for the flats. Given how much downtown puts parking restrictions in busy areas (which I really don't understand especially after the new parking system), this could be a good connector to serve red line riders traveling Downtown. I feel that would be a better use than a ghost train from 9 AM- 7 PM. It can also continue to serve for special events. 2. If cost is an issue I'd rather discontinue the green line and invest in the development of the WFL. Given how much it was used in the past there is no reason it can't reach those heights again. I'd rather keep it but IF something has to go that like can because it has better immediate use than the Green line.
August 6, 2024Aug 6 With the Browns moving to Brook Park, what are the odds RTA will have the good sense to increase west side rapid frequency on game days?
August 6, 2024Aug 6 be a good opportunity to put a unified fleet to use. blue line from van Aiken to the stadium on game days
August 6, 2024Aug 6 27 minutes ago, Whipjacka said: be a good opportunity to put a unified fleet to use. blue line from van Aiken to the stadium on game days I know they can't run special charters to games like some of the suburban systems ran pre-merger. I'm not sure if this would qualify as such or not. Probably not.
August 6, 2024Aug 6 Now is the time for the City/County/RTA leadership to start searching for any funding they can get to complete the blue/green/Waterfront loop. Ideally sharing tracks with some other Downtown circulator. Combine anything they can get with TIF money. Between the riverfront, lakefront, Muni Lot, Greyhound land, and other open lots in the NE corner of Downtown, there could be another 7-10k housing units along the route by 2040. Having a great transit project in the works will make these areas much more attractive for developers to build, while making Downtown a better place for everyone. Use the TOD incentives to get people in these buildings discounted RTA monthly passes and bike parking. If they really want an equitable waterfront like they keep saying they do, they need to make it easily accessible for everyone. This brings ADA accessible transit to Canal Basin, the riverfront, and the future lakefront developments. It puts everyone Downtown and anywhere along these lines within a 5 minute walk of a transit ride to these spaces.
August 6, 2024Aug 6 45 minutes ago, PlanCleveland said: Now is the time for the City/County/RTA leadership to start searching for any funding they can get to complete the blue/green/Waterfront loop. Ideally sharing tracks with some other Downtown circulator. Combine anything they can get with TIF money. Between the riverfront, lakefront, Muni Lot, Greyhound land, and other open lots in the NE corner of Downtown, there could be another 7-10k housing units along the route by 2040. Having a great transit project in the works will make these areas much more attractive for developers to build, while making Downtown a better place for everyone. Use the TOD incentives to get people in these buildings discounted RTA monthly passes and bike parking. If they really want an equitable waterfront like they keep saying they do, they need to make it easily accessible for everyone. This brings ADA accessible transit to Canal Basin, the riverfront, and the future lakefront developments. It puts everyone Downtown and anywhere along these lines within a 5 minute walk of a transit ride to these spaces. This brings up a question I have, with that Multimodal station getting proposed on the Lakefront, wouldn't the Waterfront Line be the one serving that station? If so I would hope that the city would pressure the RTA to restore full service because that would be a MASSIVE waste of money, especially if we don't become a mini hub for the Amtrak expansion.
August 6, 2024Aug 6 20 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said: This brings up a question I have, with that Multimodal station getting proposed on the Lakefront, wouldn't the Waterfront Line be the one serving that station? If so I would hope that the city would pressure the RTA to restore full service because that would be a MASSIVE waste of money, especially if we don't become a mini hub for the Amtrak expansion. Completely agree. If done right, the multimodal hub could connect Amtrak lines, blue/green/WFL, RTA busses, Laketran park n ride lines, the routes that go between Cleveland and Akron, and be a short walk over the land bridge from a streetcar stop in front of the convention center on Lakeside. All right next to a few thousand residents, and hopefully 30k+ more a short walk or transit ride away.
August 8, 2024Aug 8 Moving to be closer to the anticipated Amtrak station? The Browns Stadium development? Greyhound and Barons Bus will move from downtown Cleveland to Brookpark Rapid Station Published: Aug. 08, 2024 By Susan Glaser, cleveland.com CLEVELAND, Ohio – Greyhound plans to relocate from its iconic downtown Cleveland station to a new transit center near Cleveland Hopkins airport. The new station will be built on the parking lot at the Brookpark Rapid Station, according to a spokesman for the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority. ... Earlier this year, RTA and Greyhound/Barons were considering a deal to relocate to the Stephanie Tubbs Jones Transit Center, which is downtown near Cleveland Station University, not far from the existing station. It’s unclear why the east-side location was rejected. https://www.cleveland.com/news/2024/08/greyhound-and-barons-bus-will-move-from-downtown-cleveland-to-brookpark-rapid-station.html Edited August 8, 2024Aug 8 by Luke_S
August 9, 2024Aug 9 Flixbus, (owner of the decimated Greyhound service) is moving away from "city people."
August 9, 2024Aug 9 2 hours ago, MVH said: Flixbus, (owner of the decimated Greyhound service) is moving away from "city people." Makes sense. Move to the suburbs where you have to own a car -- those suburbanites have been dying to ride the bus. Now they don't have to venture into the scary city to do so. Good news for Flixbus.
Create an account or sign in to comment