Birdsong is into her 2nd year of a 5 year contract with 15% annual bonus incentives.   Has she received any bonus?  

 

 

Not that I disagree with anything you guys have already said about apparent lack of care or effort from RTA, but the optics of our system could change. 

 

Reclassifying the red line to light rail vs a metro line doesn't really matter at all in terms of generating/retaining ridership, but it would move us from near the bottom of both metro and light rail daily ridership to middle of the pack light rail ridership. The red line alone has higher annual ridership numbers than all 3 of Pittsburgh's lines combined, and is about equal to Baltimore's annual ridership for their 3 lines. 

 

We'd go from 34 out of 38 light rail systems and 13 out of 16 metro systems to 19 in light rail, just behind San Jose. And I'd hope the new trains and potential improvements to blue/green frequency could bump us up another spot. 

 

Would that actually lead to any dramatic changes? Probably not. But it could change how people view rail here vs the currently repeated lines of no one rides it and the trains are old and gross. Maybe that perspective shift could lead more people to call for further improvements once they see what simply getting new trains can do.

 

If more people are willing to try out the new trains, they are more potential advocates. I have gotten dozens of people to ride the rapid for their first time. Everyone loves it, has used it again, says it's much better than they expected, and wishes they could use it to get to more than 4 destinations. Imagine if we were to send free day passes to every household in the county once the new trains are in operation with some ideas on trips or activities to do with it. Maybe there is a chance you could get enough new people to enjoy it and see further potential. Maybe gain support for further improvements or even funding expansion. Who knows. 

Edited January 24Jan 24 by PlanCleveland

west park, 117 and west blvd stations are all just waiting for TOD.

27 minutes ago, Whipjacka said:

west park, 117 and west blvd stations are all just waiting for TOD.

But you still have to make the train worth riding, if the train doesn't take them where they need to go people will drive instead. On top of that even if they want to go somewhere the train takes them they have to transfer to get there. So you take two trains which may take 45 minutes to an hour total of travel time (including waiting) vs. driving and being there in 15 minutes. 

 

Even with the map that has been floating around with new lines there are massive flaws. For example there would be no train that departs from Stokes Windermere that takes you directly to Van Aken, one of the densest suburban developments that is served by rail. That is a mistake, the Red Line has a TON more ridership than the Blue and Green line so allowing that large ridership to have direct access to Van Aken could help that area Boom. 

46 minutes ago, Whipjacka said:

west park, 117 and west blvd stations are all just waiting for TOD.

IMO West Blvd is the top of the list (as witnessed by the about to happen development).   Walkable to Edgewater is a good asset these days.  

2 hours ago, Whipjacka said:

west park, 117 and west blvd stations are all just waiting for TOD.

 

....Triskett, Brookpark, Windermere, Superior, Green Road/West Green, Warrensville/Shaker ;)

 

At best, federal funds for major projects on hold
By Ken Prendergast / January 24, 2025

 

Millions, if not hundreds of millions of federal tax dollars awarded to local infrastructure and energy projects may be at risk from a 90-day funding freeze and review mandated earlier this week by the new Trump Administration. That possibility was raised today at the first board meeting of the year for Greater Cleveland’s metropolitan planning organization (MPO) which distributes federal funds to transportation and air quality programs.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2025/01/24/at-best-federal-funds-for-major-projects-on-hold/

Maybe I'm crazy with it being so high on everyone else's list, but I just don't see how connecting the blue/green lines to UC makes sense to do before multiple other projects are completed, unless it's combined with another rail project like a Glenville to Slavic Village line or blue/green extensions at their terminus.  Yes Van Aken is great, but its like 500 people and I'm guessing at least 60% of them have never used the blue line. We'd be spending like $250-500M+ to gain maybe a couple hundred riders a day. 

 

For projects that aren't over half a billion dollars that would generate ridership growth and make the existing lines more useful, I don't think anything could beat a Downtown streetcar. Instead of being dropped off in one corner of Downtown, it would essentially make all of Downtown within a 5-10 minute walk for anyone who lives there or within a quarter mile of an existing stop.  There are a ton of people in this area who want to live Downtown but can't afford it.  How much more attractive would building 500 units at the West Park station be for potential renters if they could be anywhere Downtown with a 1 minute walk, a quick train ride, and then boarding the streetcar right outside?

 

It puts 15-18k more people within a 5 minute walk a rail stop. It generates more foot traffic around Downtown in all weather, greatly improves the customer base within a 5 minute walk for all Downtown businesses and grocery stores, open up good development sites outside of the CBD in the Northeast Corner of Downtown, connects all entertainment areas and the convention center, and then actually connects the different Downtown neighborhoods which will help improve all of them.  On top of that, it would also build the first mile of a Healthline Streetcar, and .7 miles of the 2.3 mile WFL loop.

 

And best of all, it has a clear potential funding source being in the TIF district.  Since I'm guessing there won't be much federal or state help for a few years.

Edited January 24Jan 24 by PlanCleveland

4 hours ago, PlanCleveland said:

Not that I disagree with anything you guys have already said about apparent lack of care or effort from RTA, but the optics of our system could change. 

 

Reclassifying the red line to light rail vs a metro line doesn't really matter at all in terms of generating/retaining ridership, but it would move us from near the bottom of both metro and light rail daily ridership to middle of the pack light rail ridership. The red line alone has higher annual ridership numbers than all 3 of Pittsburgh's lines combined, and is about equal to Baltimore's annual ridership for their 3 lines. 

 

We'd go from 34 out of 38 light rail systems and 13 out of 16 metro systems to 19 in light rail, just behind San Jose. And I'd hope the new trains and potential improvements to blue/green frequency could bump us up another spot. 

 

Would that actually lead to any dramatic changes? Probably not. But it could change how people view rail here vs the currently repeated lines of no one rides it and the trains are old and gross. Maybe that perspective shift could lead more people to call for further improvements once they see what simply getting new trains can do.

 

If more people are willing to try out the new trains, they are more potential advocates. I have gotten dozens of people to ride the rapid for their first time. Everyone loves it, has used it again, says it's much better than they expected, and wishes they could use it to get to more than 4 destinations. Imagine if we were to send free day passes to every household in the county once the new trains are in operation with some ideas on trips or activities to do with it. Maybe there is a chance you could get enough new people to enjoy it and see further potential. Maybe gain support for further improvements or even funding expansion. Who knows. 

 

GCRTA has never prioritized trains.    

 

Buses meet their "mission", sort of.   The impression above is an order of magnitude stronger about buses, with TBH a lot more justification.

 

They don't care.

Depending on how the Blue Line to UC is designed, it could also allow a Red Line train to go to the front door of the Cleveland Clinic, thanks to the standardization of the rail fleet. It also will provide a significant park-n-ride from the eastern suburbs to UC. That's just from the first phase.

 

My first phase -- Blue Line to Euclid/East 93rd

Another phase -- Downtown Loop

Another phase -- Red Line ext to Westlake (also links Westlake to UC)

Another phase -- Blue line extension to I-271 (also links I-271 P&R to UC)

Another phase -- Convert Healthline from CSU to UC to rail (links Downtown Loop to UC)

Another phase -- extend Red Line to Euclid (also run down Euclid Avenue from UC to Downtown Loop)

 

With those six phases, we have just created a well-connected rail system that offers a multitude of origin-destination combinations -- far more than is possible now. And each one of those extensions falls into the range of $200 million to $300 million except for Euclid, although that could be done in two phases and reroute NS trains via CSX to potentially reduce costs.

21 minutes ago, KJP said:

Depending on how the Blue Line to UC is designed, it could also allow a Red Line train to go to the front door of the Cleveland Clinic, thanks to the standardization of the rail fleet. It also will provide a significant park-n-ride from the eastern suburbs to UC. That's just from the first phase.

 

Another phase -- Downtown Loop

Another phase -- Red Line ext to Westlake (also links Westlake to UC)

Another phase -- Blue line extension to I-271 (also links I-271 P&R to UC)

Another phase -- Convert Healthline from CSU to UC to rail (links Downtown Loop to UC)

Another phase -- extend Red Line to Euclid (also ran run down Euclid Avenue from UC to Downtown Loop)

 

With those five phases, we have just created a well-connected rail system that offers a multitude of origin-destination combinations -- far more than is possible now. And each one of those extensions falls into the range of $200 million to $300 million except for Euclid, although that could be done in two phases and reroute NS trains via CSX to potentially reduce costs.

 

Ok, doing the math: to complete all six of the above mentioned phases, at the highest potential cost each of $300m each... that comes out to 1.8 Billion

 

So, you're telling me that for less then the fed gave Chicago for ONE LINE.... we could have SIX NEW LINES!?!?!??? 

That would totally change rail for Cleveland and the County!!!! 

 

Referencing it again below:

 

"FTA issues $2B grant agreement for Chicago Red Line extension"

https://www.progressiverailroading.com/passenger_rail/news/FTA-issues-2B-grant-agreement-for-Chicago-Red-Line-extension--73658

 

How about the RTA, City and County leaders take action!? Get together, put in the work, come up with a plan to add all the above mentioned lines and present it to the FTA and get the money for it!?? If the FTA is going to give money away anyhow, why not get it for CLE instead of some other city? If nothing else, get a chunk of the money towards it, and then ask business in the areas of expansion to put money towards it(CCF, SHW, Key, Case etc) and do TIFs etc.

 

Side Note:

Id rather swap out these two:

-"Another phase -- Red Line ext to Westlake (also links Westlake to UC)"

-"Another phase -- Blue line extension to I-271 (also links I-271 P&R to UC)"

 

For these two:

-A streetcar down Detroit from Public Square/CUT to West Boulevard rapid transit station

-A rail Line/Street Car/Elevated Train(a mix of all/or whatever it would take) from Westside market stop on 25th to at least the Zoo/Broadview/Memphis -- or if possible to ParmaTown

 

I think serving all the residents within the city, where its more densely populated and more likely to be ridden all week long at all times of day, is more important then serving those causing urban sprawl.

 

 

Either way, our leaders need to step up and try to make something like that happen! You never know if you don't ask!!!

7 hours ago, E Rocc said:

 

Retrenchment has been a way of life at GCRTA since the mergers, along with bureausclerosis.

Given the impression that RT's fortunes are trending dire or on shaky ground - and with the new Federal funding era likely now underway - RTA should pivot hard and focus on improving what they currently have been entrusted with (shelve the time/resources consuming expansion plans - for now). Focus on Cleveland's show ponies and make them the best possible - (1) the leg from Tower City to the Airport; and, (2) the BRT to our 2nd downtown/UC area.  The BRT main needs to address are mentioned well above. Regarding the airport line...since this offers the first impression of our city and region, bling it out like a Disney World ride as a demonstration project to engage visitors (and hopefully re-engage doubting locals); add new tracks that allow higher speeds; creatively brand the cars (or is it singular given the low load factor); cut travel time below the current 30 minutes; add more trips using one car on more reliable intervals...If done, who knows - TOD developers may notice.

4 hours ago, PlanCleveland said:

Maybe I'm crazy with it being so high on everyone else's list, but I just don't see how connecting the blue/green lines to UC makes sense to do before multiple other projects are completed, unless it's combined with another rail project like a Glenville to Slavic Village line or blue/green extensions at their terminus.  Yes Van Aken is great, but its like 500 people and I'm guessing at least 60% of them have never used the blue line. We'd be spending like $250-500M+ to gain maybe a couple hundred riders a day. 

 

For projects that aren't over half a billion dollars that would generate ridership growth and make the existing lines more useful, I don't think anything could beat a Downtown streetcar. Instead of being dropped off in one corner of Downtown, it would essentially make all of Downtown within a 5-10 minute walk for anyone who lives there or within a quarter mile of an existing stop.  There are a ton of people in this area who want to live Downtown but can't afford it.  How much more attractive would building 500 units at the West Park station be for potential renters if they could be anywhere Downtown with a 1 minute walk, a quick train ride, and then boarding the streetcar right outside?

 

It puts 15-18k more people within a 5 minute walk a rail stop. It generates more foot traffic around Downtown in all weather, greatly improves the customer base within a 5 minute walk for all Downtown businesses and grocery stores, open up good development sites outside of the CBD in the Northeast Corner of Downtown, connects all entertainment areas and the convention center, and then actually connects the different Downtown neighborhoods which will help improve all of them.  On top of that, it would also build the first mile of a Healthline Streetcar, and .7 miles of the 2.3 mile WFL loop.

 

And best of all, it has a clear potential funding source being in the TIF district.  Since I'm guessing there won't be much federal or state help for a few years.

 

I'd love to have a downtown streetcar but I think it's important to put the UC extension in context. The 500 apartments only include the brand new units added by the Van Aken district. I can count at least 30 other apartment/condo buildings within half a mile of the VAD.  There were already hundreds (probably thousands) of units directly on the Blue Line between Warrensville Ctr Rd and Shaker Square along Van Aken, not even including the hundreds more within a 5-10 minute walk of a station.

 

Many also live along the 41 and the 14 (which transfer at VAD) and would have significantly shortened trips to UC with a rail connection.

 

For every one of the thousands of units described, the closest employment center is University Circle, not downtown. How can anyone ride the Blue Line to work if it doesn't go to work? And if it did, there's no doubt there would be demand for hundreds more transit-oriented units that would boost ridership.

7 hours ago, KJP said:

 

....Triskett, Brookpark, Windermere, Superior, Green Road/West Green, Warrensville/Shaker ;)

Superior has the most potential due to its location sitting in right on a main street that is surrounded by TONS of parking lots and single use buildings. More importantly it sits in a low income area, the demographic that is more likely to catch public transit in Cleveland. Build affordable housing (4 over 1) on those lots or mixed income at best and you set up Superior to become one of the busiest stations.

Edited January 25Jan 25 by MyPhoneDead

GCRTA doesn't have the confidence that it could raise that kind of funding for rail extensions, so they don't even talk about them. It's the same thing that was driving me nuts about Calabrese a decade ago, when GCRTA was starting to cannibalize its rail fleet to keep the rest running. GCRTA was doing nothing to start the process to replace the fleet because it didn't think it could raise $200 million (the price at that time) to do the job. Calabrese refused to even discuss it. One evening over dinner at Peppers Cafe in Lakewood, I told him about an article I did for Sun News, when Fairview Park offered guided public tours of their vehicles for their safety forces and service department. The public saw how old these vehicles were and that the city was doing everything it could to keep them running. Voters passed a levy to replace the city's vehicles. I asked Calabrese about GCRTA doing something similar to raise public awareness of its aging trains and infrastructure (its capital backlog then was $500+ million, soon to grow to $600+ million). He said he would never show weakness publicly because the public doesn't respond to weakness.

 

So I did it for him. On behalf of All Aboard Ohio, I wrote website articles and press releases armed with the gory details and data from employees whom I kept anonymous and got the media involved which got the public and their elected leaders involved. That forced GCRTA's hand to pursue planning for the new trains and ultimately to find the money. 

 

If we want new rail lines, the advocacy community is going to have to do it for GCRTA. Create a vision, get some renderings, show some cause-n-effect data, get the public engaged, ask a local university to do some polls, and get the elected leaders involved. But understand where GCRTA is. They're in survival mode. As one of the pieces to creating a thriving city, it believes it is in a dying city and is just along for the ride. A victim, no less. Make GCRTA believe they are an essential ingredient for growth. Start with developing more GCRTA properties especially along the Red Line but elsewhere too. Make them want to do it. Get them high on it.

10 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

Superior has the most potential due to its location sitting in right on a main street that is surrounded by TONS of parking lots and single use buildings. More importantly it sits in a low income area, the demographic that is more likely to catch public transit in Cleveland. Build affordable housing (4 over 1) on those lots or mixed used at best and you set up Superior to become one of the busiest stations.

 

This is pretty much true for both Superior and Windermere. Not to mention that they're the only other places where the Healthline and Red Line are right beside each other, so there's transit to the Clinic as well as downtown. And they're both major bus hubs. This stretch of EC is probably one of the best spots to prioritize TOD.

Great video on the flaws of the GCRTA HealthLine

 

 

 

It's a stretch to call the Health Line a disaster, but the idea that BRT is anything more than a bus is laughable. In Cleveland it's just a slightly polished number 6 with some dedicated lanes.

 

To be fair, BRT is generally underwhelming in the US, at least in Chicago, Pittsburgh and Cleveland (from my own experiences). Anecdotally, I hear Houston and Atlanta are garbage too, while Indianapolis is serviceable. 

 

BRT is just a marketing term even when it has signal priorities, people can enter through the middle door, etc. Might as well call them AI empowered vehicles.

1 minute ago, TBideon said:

It's a stretch to call the Health Line a disaster, but the idea that BRT is anything more than a bus is laughable. In Cleveland it's just a slightly polished number 6 with some dedicated lanes.

 

To be fair, BRT is generally underwhelming in the US, at least in Chicago, Pittsburgh and Cleveland (from my own experiences). Anecdotally, I hear Houston and Atlanta are garbage too, while Indianapolis is serviceable. 

 

BRT is just a marketing term even when it has signal priorities, people can enter through the middle door, etc. Might as well call them AI empowered vehicles.

$280 million in 2008 dollars for a glorified replacement of the number 6 bus is definitely under the disaster category. They could've just coordinated with the city to get Euclid Streetscaped to include a dedicated business lane for much cheaper.

2 minutes ago, TBideon said:

It's a stretch to call the Health Line a disaster, but the idea that BRT is anything more than a bus is laughable. In Cleveland it's just a slightly polished number 6 with some dedicated lanes.

 

To be fair, BRT is generally underwhelming in the US, at least in Chicago, Pittsburgh and Cleveland (from my own experiences). Anecdotally, I hear Houston and Atlanta are garbage too, while Indianapolis is serviceable. 

 

BRT is just a marketing term even when it has signal priorities, people can enter through the middle door, etc. Might as well call them AI empowered vehicles.

BRT can be good or bad, and anything in between. Your comment got me thinking - how would I rank the key BRT features. Total travel time is the key to driving ridership. Off the top of my head, I think I’d rank it like this:

1. Frequency

2. Dedicated lanes
3. Signal priority 

4. Off board fare payment 

5. Timed transfers

6. Level boarding

7. Center running (from my perspective, this is more about maintaining a curb-side parallel parking lane to protect pedestrians on the sidewalk)

 

I’m sure I could be convinced of re-rankings on that list, I’m just curious in people’s thoughts. It’s very important with the West 25th BRT under development and the BRT projects in Columbus. 

 

Maybe I should Include land use / zoning reform on that list too?

^^^^Great video - thorough, well put together and critical without being unnecessarily disparaging. We've discussed ad nauseum about the issues at this point but I'm curious if there's anything we can do to bring up these issues with the HealthLine. Is there any meaningful way that we can call give a thoughtful proposal on how to fix it directly to the RTA brass?

8 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

$280 million in 2008 dollars for a glorified replacement of the number 6 bus is definitely under the disaster category. They could've just coordinated with the city to get Euclid Streetscaped to include a dedicated business lane for much cheaper.

The cost was because the road was completely rebuilt. It is not reasonable to imply that the transit portion is what drove that entire cost. A substantial portion of that cost should be allocated as a road project for personal vehicles.

3 hours ago, TBideon said:

To be fair, BRT is generally underwhelming in the US, at least in Chicago, Pittsburgh and Cleveland (from my own experiences). Anecdotally, I hear Houston and Atlanta are garbage too, while Indianapolis is serviceable. 

 

Uhh... Pittsburgh BRT seemed pretty great, at least from my one experience with it. How many other US cities have multiple grade-separated busways?

 

Though I agree with you that in general, a lot of BRT in the US underdelivers. Light rail is smoother, more permanent, and often more attractive to prospective riders.

 

I just saw a stat in the Cincy Streetcar thread from several years back that city residents were about 50% more likely to have ridden its streetcar in the past year than to have taken a ride on any of its buses. The streetcar runs in one direction on a single 3.6 mile loop. The bus system has about 40 different lines that stretch across the entire city.

On 1/24/2025 at 9:52 PM, KJP said:

GCRTA doesn't have the confidence that it could raise that kind of funding for rail extensions, so they don't even talk about them. It's the same thing that was driving me nuts about Calabrese a decade ago, when GCRTA was starting to cannibalize its rail fleet to keep the rest running. GCRTA was doing nothing to start the process to replace the fleet because it didn't think it could raise $200 million (the price at that time) to do the job. Calabrese refused to even discuss it. One evening over dinner at Peppers Cafe in Lakewood, I told him about an article I did for Sun News, when Fairview Park offered guided public tours of their vehicles for their safety forces and service department. The public saw how old these vehicles were and that the city was doing everything it could to keep them running. Voters passed a levy to replace the city's vehicles. I asked Calabrese about GCRTA doing something similar to raise public awareness of its aging trains and infrastructure (its capital backlog then was $500+ million, soon to grow to $600+ million). He said he would never show weakness publicly because the public doesn't respond to weakness.

 

So I did it for him. On behalf of All Aboard Ohio, I wrote website articles and press releases armed with the gory details and data from employees whom I kept anonymous and got the media involved which got the public and their elected leaders involved. That forced GCRTA's hand to pursue planning for the new trains and ultimately to find the money. 

 

If we want new rail lines, the advocacy community is going to have to do it for GCRTA. Create a vision, get some renderings, show some cause-n-effect data, get the public engaged, ask a local university to do some polls, and get the elected leaders involved. But understand where GCRTA is. They're in survival mode. As one of the pieces to creating a thriving city, it believes it is in a dying city and is just along for the ride. A victim, no less. Make GCRTA believe they are an essential ingredient for growth. Start with developing more GCRTA properties especially along the Red Line but elsewhere too. Make them want to do it. Get them high on it.

 

Well, that looks close enough to an RFP for me!

 

@Boomerang_Brian looks like AAO NEO Chapter has its work already cut out 😉

On 1/26/2025 at 12:48 PM, Boomerang_Brian said:

BRT can be good or bad, and anything in between. Your comment got me thinking - how would I rank the key BRT features. Total travel time is the key to driving ridership. Off the top of my head, I think I’d rank it like this:

1. Frequency

2. Dedicated lanes
3. Signal priority 

4. Off board fare payment 

5. Timed transfers

6. Level boarding

7. Center running (from my perspective, this is more about maintaining a curb-side parallel parking lane to protect pedestrians on the sidewalk)

 

I’m sure I could be convinced of re-rankings on that list, I’m just curious in people’s thoughts. It’s very important with the West 25th BRT under development and the BRT projects in Columbus. 

 

Maybe I should Include land use / zoning reform on that list too?

 

BRT without signal prioritization is an oxymoron.   

1 minute ago, E Rocc said:

 

BRT without signal prioritization is an oxymoron.   

Yup.. And signal prioritization without dedicated lanes loses most of the benefit - I had to edit my ranking when I thought about that aspect. Without dedicated lanes (at least at intersections), a bus with a go signal could be stuck behind a car at a red light. 
 

I suppose using “hold-green” type prioritization would lessen that impact, but that isn’t as effective as full “bus/emergency vehicle first” prioritization.

As I was leaving the AAO happy hour last night, I looked up at the RTA viaduct and noticed there were Red line, green line, and blue lines trains all on the viaduct all at the same time. Any idea what was going on? Red Line was headed eastbound, the shaker trains were headed opposite directions from each other. @KJP ?
 

 

 

 

A lovely site for sure.  I've seen them on the red line tracks before I think they sometimes take them to Brookpark for maintenance. 

1 hour ago, Cleburger said:

A lovely site for sure.  I've seen them on the red line tracks before I think they sometimes take them to Brookpark for maintenance. 

 

They do, but sometimes they stage Blue and Green line trains on the viaduct during rush hours. What time was this?

18 minutes ago, KJP said:

 

They do, but sometimes they stage Blue and Green line trains on the viaduct during rush hours. What time was this?

Around 9:15pm last night 

On 1/24/2025 at 3:02 PM, PlanCleveland said:

Maybe I'm crazy with it being so high on everyone else's list, but I just don't see how connecting the blue/green lines to UC makes sense to do before multiple other projects are completed, unless it's combined with another rail project like a Glenville to Slavic Village line or blue/green extensions at their terminus.  Yes Van Aken is great, but its like 500 people and I'm guessing at least 60% of them have never used the blue line. We'd be spending like $250-500M+ to gain maybe a couple hundred riders a day. 

 

For projects that aren't over half a billion dollars that would generate ridership growth and make the existing lines more useful, I don't think anything could beat a Downtown streetcar. Instead of being dropped off in one corner of Downtown, it would essentially make all of Downtown within a 5-10 minute walk for anyone who lives there or within a quarter mile of an existing stop.  There are a ton of people in this area who want to live Downtown but can't afford it.  How much more attractive would building 500 units at the West Park station be for potential renters if they could be anywhere Downtown with a 1 minute walk, a quick train ride, and then boarding the streetcar right outside?

 

It puts 15-18k more people within a 5 minute walk a rail stop. It generates more foot traffic around Downtown in all weather, greatly improves the customer base within a 5 minute walk for all Downtown businesses and grocery stores, open up good development sites outside of the CBD in the Northeast Corner of Downtown, connects all entertainment areas and the convention center, and then actually connects the different Downtown neighborhoods which will help improve all of them.  On top of that, it would also build the first mile of a Healthline Streetcar, and .7 miles of the 2.3 mile WFL loop.

 

And best of all, it has a clear potential funding source being in the TIF district.  Since I'm guessing there won't be much federal or state help for a few years.

Hospitals are some of the best transit ridership generators: lots of jobs, lots of patients, lots of visitors, and variety in arrival/departure times. Any transit proposal that doesn’t serve a hospital should be scrapped in favor of a project that does go to a hospital. Regarding the connection from the blue line to UC/CC, it’s not just about Van Aken district, it’s about all those apartments that line the entire Blue Line. 

Really? I'd assume the opposite.

36 minutes ago, TBideon said:

Really? I'd assume the opposite.

I cannot tell what you are asking or of whom. If you are asking about hospitals, then yes, they are the best destination ridership generator by a landslide. The only better ridership generator is high quality bus service feeding into rapid transit. (Good local bicycle infrastructure is also a strong transit ridership generator.) After hospitals, the next tier destination for ridership generation is universities / colleges. 

I didn't know that. It does seem like hospitals and provider care in the suburbs aren't particularly served well by RTA, and the University Circle branches have more garages than actual medical centers.

 

But hey, you learn something new every day

 

18 hours ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

Hospitals are some of the best transit ridership generators: lots of jobs, lots of patients, lots of visitors, and variety in arrival/departure times. Any transit proposal that doesn’t serve a hospital should be scrapped in favor of a project that does go to a hospital. Regarding the connection from the blue line to UC/CC, it’s not just about Van Aken district, it’s about all those apartments that line the entire Blue Line. 

Sorry, I was more replying to the sentiment above that it would help build on the momentum of the Van Aken District, not that everyone else along the route or UC wouldn't benefit. It would obviously be a good idea to connect it to UC, I just think there are other projects ahead of it from a cost benefit/ridership perspective. I could also be wrong about that thought though. 

On 1/24/2025 at 9:52 PM, KJP said:

GCRTA doesn't have the confidence that it could raise that kind of funding for rail extensions, so they don't even talk about them.

 

On 1/24/2025 at 9:52 PM, KJP said:

 

As one of the pieces to creating a thriving city, it believes it is in a dying city and is just along for the ride. A victim, no less. Make GCRTA believe they are an essential ingredient for growth. Start with developing more GCRTA properties especially along the Red Line but elsewhere too. Make them want to do it. Get them high on it.

It's pretty obvious, but reassuring to hear you say it as well to know we're not crazy.  I understand that not everything is their fault. But we shouldn't have to make them believe anything. They're the leaders. If they don't believe that they can do what they should be doing, then they're not leaders and shouldn't be leading. 

 

My question to you guys is.... What can I, a finance/econ major with around a decade of analyst experience, start doing now to be in a position to be considered to lead RTA in 10-15 years? Even if I can't get get funding for any expansion, at least I use, care about, and believe in the service. Which is something that seems to have disappeared from leadership decades ago. I don't need to use the service, and can't get to work on it, but I choose to use it when I can and promote it to everyone because I want it to succeed. 

 

Today I was at the Healthline stop in front of the Thwing Center. There was a truck illegally parked about 150-200ft in front of the stop, something that is a huge issue all the way down Euclid. Instead of just stopping at or even 15 feet beyond the stop, the bus just blew by the 6 of us waiting. 2nd time I've had a bus blow by a stop in the last 2 months, at least this is a 15 minute bus instead of 30 like the other was. Or so i thought.... I took this opportunity to make the 10 minute walk to the 105th stop so I could walk by the new MLK library. Passed by 2 HL busses right next to eachother on the way. Then stood at that stop for over 20 minutes. The bus was 19 minutes late, or 34 minutes inbetween busses. They came with 2 HL busses back to back, and another one about 7 minutes behind those 2. So with that long of a wait, the bus is obviously standing room only with around a dozen people waiting at just this stop.  2 women in their 50s or 60s were vaping on the bus. Something I've also seen on the red line. 

 

I would say RTA leadership should often be embarrassed of the service they lead, but it seems they view themselves as victims instead of leaders. 

 

Sorry for the rant. 

 

Edited February 1Feb 1 by PlanCleveland
Typo

On 2/1/2025 at 3:28 PM, PlanCleveland said:

Passed by 2 HL busses right next to eachother on the way. Then stood at that stop for over 20 minutes. The bus was 19 minutes late, or 34 minutes inbetween busses. They came with 2 HL busses back to back, and another one about 7 minutes behind those 2. So with that long of a wait, the bus is obviously standing room only with around a dozen people waiting at just this stop.  2 women in their 50s or 60s were vaping on the bus. Something I've also seen on the red line. 

 

I would say RTA leadership should often be embarrassed of the service they lead.

 

 

Its probably a small comfort but at least you aren't alone in wanting RTA to do better. My first ride on the red line after leaving NEOhio in 2019 and moving back last year was a terrible reintroduction: smokers, a man spitting up on the floor then pounding his bike against the wall, teenagers harassing other passengers. All of my rides since have been much better but it was shocking how unpleasant the experience was compared to my memory of the red line.

 

I sometimes see families trying out the train and, at best, I just overhear them complain about how dirty it is. I generally have an optimistic outlook on the future of transit, but RTA feels like it's in rough shape. Still,  I'm holding out hope for better some day. 

Edited February 3Feb 3 by Keelung to Cuyahoga

they can even do small things on the red line. put a schedules and maps on the platform, for instance.

 

a cash strapped organization needs to do the little things right, but RTA does not.

 

This new fleet is a big opportunity to re-brand the organization- hope they don't blow it. 

On 2/1/2025 at 3:28 PM, PlanCleveland said:

 

My question to you guys is.... What can I, a finance/econ major with around a decade of analyst experience, start doing now to be in a position to be considered to lead RTA in 10-15 years?

 

 

Get a transit administrative job in another city, or at least at a transit agency elsewhere in NE Ohio and work your way up. But it will take more than 10-15 years of experiences to reach GM-level consideration unless you know someone. Also don't forget to do favors for local pols.

On 2/2/2025 at 12:42 AM, Whipjacka said:

they can even do small things on the red line. put a schedules and maps on the platform, for instance.

 

a cash strapped organization needs to do the little things right, but RTA does not.

 

This new fleet is a big opportunity to re-brand the organization- hope they don't blow it. 

 

I'd say estimated time of arrival signs on the platform (if they can come up with away to prevent vandalism) or even on an app would be a benefit.   Assuming (I know...) vehicles are GPS tracked.

On 2/1/2025 at 3:28 PM, PlanCleveland said:

Today I was at the Healthline stop in front of the Thwing Center. There was a truck illegally parked about 150-200ft in front of the stop, something that is a huge issue all the way down Euclid. Instead of just stopping at or even 15 feet beyond the stop, the bus just blew by the 6 of us waiting. 2nd time I've had a bus blow by a stop in the last 2 months, at least this is a 15 minute bus instead of 30 like the other was. Or so i thought.... I took this opportunity to make the 10 minute walk to the 105th stop so I could walk by the new MLK library. Passed by 2 HL busses right next to eachother on the way. Then stood at that stop for over 20 minutes. The bus was 19 minutes late, or 34 minutes inbetween busses. They came with 2 HL busses back to back, and another one about 7 minutes behind those 2. So with that long of a wait, the bus is obviously standing room only with around a dozen people waiting at just this stop.  2 women in their 50s or 60s were vaping on the bus. Something I've also seen on the red line. 

 

I would say RTA leadership should often be embarrassed of the service they lead, but it seems they view themselves as victims instead of leaders. 

 

Sorry for the rant. 

 

 

It's spot on.   Never mind that it reminded me I was disappointed to see the old Thwing parking lot lawned over.   I made a couple "connections" parking there BITD lol, and now I wonder whatever happened to them.

 

Yeah, I know it improved the aesthetics.  :).  TBH I used that stop for its intended purpose much more often than that.

 

Back to the topic....of course they aren't embarrassed.   They are fulfilling the de facto mission they have had for decades, providing a very basic transportation network that is very aware that they have a largely captive audience.

 

IIRC UCPD used to enforce parking on that stretch and it was one of their favorite things to do.

 

 

Edited February 3Feb 3 by E Rocc

9 minutes ago, E Rocc said:

 

I'd say estimated time of arrival signs on the platform (if they can come up with away to prevent vandalism) or even on an app would be a benefit.   Assuming (I know...) vehicles are GPS tracked.

They do have a "real time" tracker on the transit app. But it seems to be more accurate for buses than trains. 

Cross-posted from Rando Dev to continue discussion on the proposal

57 minutes ago, Geowizical said:

Cross-posted from Rando Dev to continue discussion on the proposal

Visualization is a powerful persuasive tool! I was a bit skeptical on the feasibility and utility of this proposal. Seeing it drawn up helps a lot. Confirming this could basically go in the median with only minor adjustment is also a big deal on the political feasibility end. 

Great idea! 😉 Mine was to go even farther, to Beachwood Place. If you look in the transit propensity map, you'll see the neighborhoods it goes through to get there are more transit-supportive, then the current Green Line routing.

Thanks @KJP! Yes extending even further to the business hotspots on the east side makes total sense. I figured the JCU proposal was a good "Phase 1" extension haha

Edited February 4Feb 4 by Geowizical

22 hours ago, freefourur said:

They do have a "real time" tracker on the transit app. But it seems to be more accurate for buses than trains. 

 

That's the opposite of what one would think since buses are subject to traffic concerns.   It probably shows the "priority" they place on rail.

47 minutes ago, KJP said:

Great idea! 😉 Mine was to go even farther, to Beachwood Place. If you look in the transit propensity map, you'll see the neighborhoods it goes through to get there are more transit-supportive, then the current Green Line routing.

 

How is "transit propensity" determined?

1 hour ago, E Rocc said:

 

That's the opposite of what one would think since buses are subject to traffic concerns.   It probably shows the "priority" they place on rail.

Does the age of vehicles have an effect? I would imagine that while you can probably add gps tracking to older vehicles, having it built in and made to your specifications from the beginning would allow it to be more accurate. Since our buses are much newer than our trains I would venture to guess this is the reason. 

6 minutes ago, MyPhoneDead said:

Does the age of vehicles have an effect? I would imagine that while you can probably add gps tracking to older vehicles, having it built in and made to your specifications from the beginning would allow it to be more accurate. Since our buses are much newer than our trains I would venture to guess this is the reason. 

 

And that's why I'm hoping that the new trains will have this capability. I checked Calgary Transit on the Transit app (similar vehicles to what we're getting) and you can see where every train is on the line so fingers crossed 🤞