I think, and I'm not transportation expert, that people with bitch, moan and complain but still pony up the cost of a pass.

 

I dont see gas getting any cheaper over the long term.  I see passenger ridership increases and people learning that they will now have to make connections in order to get to their final destination.

 

Jerry, does RTA hedge fuel cost?

Mr. Masek, is it true that Community Circulators, at least as long as they continue to run, can be waved down at any point along the route? That was always our understanding, but a driver this evening did not seem to agree.

 

The driver's first priority is always to operate the vehicle in a safe manner. For instance, if the vehicle cannot move to the curb lane because of traffic congestion or other issues, the driver cannot stop to have you board in the middle of the street. Yes, Circulators drivers are asked to pick up people along the route, but stopping is at their discretion, based on safety. If you would like to send me specific details off line, please do so. [email protected]

 

I suppose this is the right thread.  Just a random thought I wanted to run by the board.  The thought was spurred by the talk over in the FEB thread about the WFL but I did not want to catch the rath of throwing that thread too far OT.

 

Let's suppose that the CC is put behind TC and the existing site is not being used.  Would it be totally infeasible / cost prohibitive to create an underground rapid line that breaks off from the WFL and runs under the mall (right through the existing CC site which is already excavated of course).... perhaps using a portion of the public auditorium as a terminal.  Not sure how beneficial such a line would be however considering that it would simply put a rapid stop between TC and CBS.  Now if the City could find a way to connect that link to Euclid/E9.... or even the PHS area, that would be beneficial IMHO.

I think there are a lot of people who will go back to driving, or perhaps try carpooling as a new/different options if the monthly pass really goes as high as 80% more than it is now.  What I was wondering as my train pulled in this morning is how close are we to the entire system being shut down and there being NO buses or trains?  I mean, costs are going to continue to climb, there's only so many places they can cut and how long before the debts outweigh the income, especially with significantly decreased ridership, and they just close RTA completely?  Is this a real possibility?

 

No doubt lots of people on the affected routes will stop riding, but because so little of RTA's revenues comes from the fare box, it's hard to imagine that these ridership drops will send RTA into a financial tailspin.  We're probably just looking at a smaller RTA with fewer suburban bus routes unless state or federal aid comes through.  I'm also guessing that the ridership drops won't be as huge as people think.  KJP could probably tell you off the top of his head what share of all ridership is made up from the rapid lines and the top bus routes which won't see cutbacks.

 

It obviously stinks for people whose routes are being cut though.

I think there are a lot of people who will go back to driving, or perhaps try carpooling as a new/different options if the monthly pass really goes as high as 80% more than it is now.  What I was wondering as my train pulled in this morning is how close are we to the entire system being shut down and there being NO buses or trains?  I mean, costs are going to continue to climb, there's only so many places they can cut and how long before the debts outweigh the income, especially with significantly decreased ridership, and they just close RTA completely?  Is this a real possibility?

 

Please check your figures, NOWHERE is an 80% increase in the cost of a monthly pass even being suggested; the range of increases that has been PROPOSED (and I stress the term PROPOSED, as nothing is cast in stone) is slightly less than 35% to just over 63% -- substantial, yes, but let's talk facts.

 

Also, the cuts that are being proposed represent only a portion of our total service (while the media has chosen to say "affecting more than half our routes", that's half by number of routes affected, not total service hours or miles) -- nowhere are cuts being proposed at this time for mainline heavy or light rail, nor for the #1, #3, #6, #14,  #22, #25, #26, #28, #30, #34, #37, #48... I could go on, but you get the idea; even if all of the proposed cuts were to be implemented, RTA would remain with a strong core service.

 

Make no mistake about it, these are difficult measures to stomach, and nobody enjoys even suggesting them, but this is reality as it exists. I say again what I've said in the past -- make sure your voice is heard, not only by RTA but by those with the ability to have a material effect on the financial support of the organization, i.e., state and federal legislators, and come to the table with constructive suggestions and alternative solutions. The question isn't, "do we do this or don't we do this?", instead it's, "we need to do something, is this the best something we can do? if not, what can we do?"

sorry sorry sorry!  You know I support you!  I wasn't trying to bad-mouth.  I swear someone else on here posted 80%, that was where I saw it, but if I'm just crazy I do apologize.

 

I was merely speculating if there is an endpoint that would NOT be the one I would want, causing complete bankruptcy and elimination of the service completely, and if so, how far off/how feasible that is.  I understand the PROPOSED cuts are not as deep as the media are portraying them, but if things were to continue down this road, of every few months increasing fares and decreasing service, where/when is the end point?  I didn't mean to hit a nerve but it's a real question.

We've concentrated on Contacting Our State and federal officials but don't forget to copy your Cleveland City Councilperson.

 

Here is a list of the folks on the Aviation & Transportation Committee

http://www.clevelandcitycouncil.org/Home/Committees/AviationTransportation/tabid/89/Default.aspx

sorry sorry sorry!  You know I support you!  I wasn't trying to bad-mouth.  I swear someone else on here posted 80%, that was where I saw it, but if I'm just crazy I do apologize.

 

I was merely speculating if there is an endpoint that would NOT be the one I would want, causing complete bankruptcy and elimination of the service completely, and if so, how far off/how feasible that is.  I understand the PROPOSED cuts are not as deep as the media are portraying them, but if things were to continue down this road, of every few months increasing fares and decreasing service, where/when is the end point?  I didn't mean to hit a nerve but it's a real question.

 

Yes, and a very good question. If I seemed overly defensive, mea culpa.

 

As you can imagine, being both an employee of the system and a lifelong transit-dependent individual (by choice, and one that I don't regret), it's a thought that has more than fleetingly crossed my mind. All I can say is, frankly, I don't know. I also don't know what the hurricane season holds for the Gulf states this year, what might or might not happen in the Middle East, or any of numerous other factors that can throw the best prediction into utter turmoil (would anyone have expected nearly $5/gallon for diesel when it was under $3/gallon just 12 months ago? check out the historical prices at http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/ddr001w.htm).

 

I can only say, "hope for the best, plan for the worst, and account for the unexpected". Remember, too, the idea that "nothing is impossible" swings both ways... don't give up the ship.

Would anyone who attended the charette on the University Circle rapid station rehab like to share what their impressions were?

Jerry, does RTA hedge fuel cost?

 

At the last Board meeting, the Board approved a new "energy risk management policy", which outlined steps in that direction.

I've seen some really good ideas by informed people.  We can't blame RTA- they're out of money.  We need to demand that our representatives fund bus travel and rail EXPANSION- it's way past time for RTA to branch out to Parma, Euclid (at least) and North Olmsted.  Remember the interurbans?  Where are they when we need them?  Toronto has our old streetcars and are laughing at us.  How about forming a citizen organization to work actively on mass transit expansion in northeast Ohio to include light rail for surrounding counties?  (As I'm a newbie, forgive me if there's already one such organization for citizens- just inform me about it!)

 

Yesterday I circulated a petition addressed to the RTA board with copies to the state Representative (Jennifer Brady) and state Senator (Robert Spada) for North Olmsted, Rocky River and Fairview Park and Cong. Dennis Kucinich on the morning and evening 96F (middle bus of the three).  Another passenger had the good suggestion to go to the Rocky River Senior Center and get people there who use the Circulator to sign one also which my wife will do today.  (Most suburbs have a Senior Center and this is a great place to get signatures for your local Circulator.)  You can all start a petition for your bus route or Circulator.  Make at least three pages for riders to sign (Name, Address, City).  Also make several blank copies with the route number blank to be filled in and pass them off to others who want to circulate one on a different bus route they use.  You have to act quickly and get the completed petitions  to RTA and your Representatives.  In the petition stress that you want all levels of government to work with each other to get funding to keep the route you're interested in.  Mention the Public Transit Emergency Relief Act of 2008 to Cong. Kucinich.  If we deluge them with signatures we may have a good chance of getting funding and saving the more heavily used routes.  After all, elections are coming.....

 

Best regards,

Chevalier

Jerry and Jet,

 

Is there some kind of benchmark of funding from the State that RTA might be aiming/wishing for. Either as a raw number or a % of expenses? And just for disparities sake, what is that current amount? Does RTA aim to have funding like System X somewhere else in the nation?

I'd normally put this in "What other states are doing...." but this seems more relevant here and may be helpful to Jerry and Friends...

 

 

 

http://www.railwayage.com/breaking_news.shtml#Feature6-7-25

 

July 24, 2008

Sacramento ponders transit service cutbacks

 

Sacramento, Calif.'s Regional Transit District has scheduled a public hearing July 28 to discuss proposed service reductions and fare increases for its light rail and bus operations, to cover an anticipated $18 million loss in state funding. The funding reduction is part of Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's fiscal year 2009 budget proposal, which recommends $1.4 billion be cut from funding aid to transit agencies.

 

.........

From cleveland.com:

 

http://www.cleveland.com/sunnews/index.ssf/2008/07/a_community_meeting_will_be.html

 

City Officials Set Meeting to Discuss Opposition to RTA Circulator Changes

Posted by mrose July 25, 2008 11:56AM

 

A community meeting will be offered to discuss RTA's proposed elimination or reduction of the Lakewood Community Circulator No. 804 at 6 p.m. Tuesday in the city hall auditorium, 12650 Detroit Ave.

 

........

Will the cost of the Cleveland State bus pass be rising along with the other fare increases or is that going to stay the same?

Will the cost of the Cleveland State bus pass be rising along with the other fare increases or is that going to stay the same?

 

Checking

Will the cost of the Cleveland State bus pass be rising along with the other fare increases or is that going to stay the same?

 

Everything is a "proposal". If the proposals are approved, they will not take effect until October, well after the beginning of fall semester.

I certainly hope that everyone who is concerned about these proposals as called/e-mailed/written their state reps and senators asking that the state restore the deep cuts in transit that it has made over the past several years.  It's not enough just to discuss it here on UO. 

Can anyone be a little more specific on the $33 million that can be saved by not using overhead wires for the Euclid line? What about the use of wind, solor or etc. to generate power for electric transit in Cleveland?

^I don't believe the cost was in reference to the generation of the electrical power, but rather to the initial construction cost of overhead electrical lines and its support structure. The use of renewables to power public transit is something ( I believe) would find near universal support on this forum, but financing this effort, especially with so few dollars allocated for public transit, would be very difficult.

^I don't believe the cost was in reference to the generation of the electrical power, but rather to the initial construction cost of overhead electrical lines and its support structure. The use of renewables to power public transit is something ( I believe) would find near universal support on this forum, but financing this effort, especially with so few dollars allocated for public transit, would be very difficult.

 

And without a federal and state government to subsidize such happy energy friendly work (see also Germany and its subsidies of the solar panel market.)

The overhead electric power supply to the Euclid Corridor would have been WAY overbuilt. It's why I posted pictures elsewhere here on the differences between the extent of infrastructure (called catenaries) for supporting the overhead wires, using the Shaker Rapid and the Pittsburgh T for the rail examples and the Dayton trolley for the bus examples. The Euclid Corridor catenaries would have been more like those for the Shaker Rapid or Pittsburgh -- that was totally overbuilt for a bus rapid transit line.

 

But few can distinguish between the extent of catenaries and think that the choice is between $33 million or nothing. There is a myriad of options and costs in between them that were never investigated, to my knowledge.

Former RTA GM's letter in today's PD:

http://www.cleveland.com/letters/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/opinion/1217061117229130.xml&coll=2

P.S.- When I rode the Red Line to the airport today, the farebox wouldn't take my single. A woman in the front rows changed it for me. She did the same for at least two more riders, saying she had laundry quarters to get rid of. I assume otherwise we would have ridden free. I don't know who she was, but RTA can thank her for not adding another $3.00 to its $20M deficit.

LORD what a ride home today. 

 

The 4:39 redline westbound out of Tower City was doomed I think.  We stopped about every 10 feet all the way to the W98th stop.  Jerky, sudden stops, like 40 of them between stations.  The driver, of course, did not have a nameplate up but the train number under the empty nameplate was 336.  Finally when we were going again after that stop the driver came on and said we would all be getting off the train at 117th to get on another train.  So we got on that one and I *think* the same driver took over, because there was no nameplate on that train either (train 328).  She apologized for the delay.

 

People were bitching up a storm when we got on the (already crowded) new train and someone next to me said something about yeah, and they're raising the fares for this.  I took the opportunity to explain to her and my other seat mates that from what I understood, the fares didn't even account for 20% of RTA's income/budget and that the people really to blame for this mess are the government, and ultimately, ourselves since we are the ones that urged spending into roads and bridges instead of public trans.  I pointed out that we have less funding for public transit than any other state nearby and though I couldn't remember exact numbers, I said ours was something like $13M vs. Indiana or PA which funds in the hundreds of millions, and urged them to contact their congresspeople and senators about increasing funding for public transit.  They all looked at me like I had a foil hat but whatever.

way to spread the word RnR.

 

Sorry 'bout your commute though.

People were bitching up a storm when we got on the (already crowded) new train and someone next to me said something about yeah, and they're raising the fares for this.  I took the opportunity to explain to her and my other seat mates that from what I understood, the fares didn't even account for 20% of RTA's income/budget and that the people really to blame for this mess are the government, and ultimately, ourselves since we are the ones that urged spending into roads and bridges instead of public trans.  I pointed out that we have less funding for public transit than any other state nearby and though I couldn't remember exact numbers, I said ours was something like $13M vs. Indiana or PA which funds in the hundreds of millions, and urged them to contact their congresspeople and senators about increasing funding for public transit.  They all looked at me like I had a foil hat but whatever.

 

That'a girl! :clap:

Nice work :).  Being on doomed trains sucks.  We had to get pushed by another train one time from E. 105th to the garages at E. 55th.  Linking up with another train is almost enough to give you whiplash if you're not careful!!!

Found this brochure on the B-Line trolley - but when I went to riderta.com? (aka this needs to be a PDF with a clickable "How you can help" button on the homepage, imho):

 

Page 1

 

Page 2

 

Page 3

 

Back page:

 

Also, I'll be letting everyone know when Sen. Voinovich, State Sen. Smith, and State Rep. Miller reply to my emails :-)

that 3% about the state of ohio is scary.

Ooo, stickin' it to 'em!  You're right, this should be front and center on the RTA webpage right now.

Wow, the state sure is generous with their funds.  That's what happens when you get bleeding heart liberals handing out the cash...3% funding for transit is insane, that money could go towards tax cuts and discounts on F150's!

Ooo, stickin' it to 'em!  You're right, this should be front and center on the RTA webpage right now.

 

I know the good folks at RTA have a LOT on their plate, but yeah - this brochure demands better real estate than the yellow "ticker tape" update. Something like this:

 

 

 

I really hope they are planning to pass these out at the upcoming public hearings.  Sh*t, if they make a supply of them available, I will distribute them on my train every day.

How aggressive is RTA is pressuring the State for better mass transit funding?

a recommendation to offset RTA fuel prices by increasing the sales tax rather than the fares.

imo, the tax should be put on the ballots in surrounding counties to fund and build a truly regional transport system.

 

RTA riders shouldn't have to bear fare increase - letter to the editor

Sunday, July 27, 2008

Leonard Ronis

Beachwood

 

In 1975, the citizens of Cuyahoga County recognized the importance of a good public transportation system and voted a 1 percent sales tax to subsidize it. That allowed fares to be reduced to 25 cents for the next five years.

 

....

 

Leonard Ronis, Beachwood

Ronis is a former RTA general manager.

 

 

 

http://www.cleveland.com/letters/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/opinion/1217061117229130.xml&coll=2

"Wouldn't it make more sense to increase the sales tax and keep the fares low so more people could be encouraged to ride public transit instead of consuming expensive gasoline?"

 

Well I suppose so, but um - increasing the sales tax... what politico will get behind that? Or should RTA just wave a magic wand and bump up the sales tax on their own? I agree that alternatives need to be pursued, but (where's my brick wall when I need it?) there's only so much RTA can do.

I read that letter and it's an awful big oversimplification of the issue.  It's not like this area is known for passing ANY laws that increase our tax. If many areas won't even approve increases to their local proposed school levy, I can't imagine they'll increase taxes to fund public trans, when the majority of residents here still drive to/from work every day.

I wish that the state would recognize that more funding needs to be dedicated to mass transit. I know the budget is overburdened as it is, but this is something that needs to be a priority. The state currently places waaaay too little emphasis on this.

 

Personally, I don't think a sales tax increase is necessarily the answer, either, because I agree .. I don't know how many people in the general public would get behind this. But there's also the fact that gasoline prices are sky high right now, and it doesn't look like they're going down any time soon, if ever. Maybe if enough people realize the importance of having alternatives, they'll get behind this.

Ooo, stickin' it to 'em!  You're right, this should be front and center on the RTA webpage right now.

 

I know the good folks at RTA have a LOT on their plate, but yeah - this brochure demands better real estate than the yellow "ticker tape" update. Something like this:

 

 

 

 

consider it done... y'know, the folks on here should really run the "Rock the Vote" campaign, it might actually get some results...

I read that letter and it's an awful big oversimplification of the issue.  It's not like this area is known for passing ANY laws that increase our tax. If many areas won't even approve increases to their local proposed school levy, I can't imagine they'll increase taxes to fund public trans, when the majority of residents here still drive to/from work every day.

 

I think you're totally right.  It wasn't too long ago that Gary Suhadolnik was trying to reverse the existing sales tax because he thought RTA wasn't really necessary.

Damn, you guys made quick work of that!

i likely the logo

I read that letter and it's an awful big oversimplification of the issue. 

the issue is a lack of funding for a regional public good due to much higher than anticipated costs for petrol fuel.  certainly additional state and federal dollars are needed to support public transport.  however, the answer given in the letter, makes a lot of sense in that all cuyahoga county consumers, rather than just those that utilize said public good, will pay for it.  IMO, a similar tax should be levied on outlying suburbs (geauga, lake, lorain, medina, summit, etc) to build a regional transportation system.  initial tax revenue could be used to subsidize fuel costs, while investing in renewable energy infrastructure (bio-methane, biodiesel, etc) to eventually reduce the cost of fuel.  perhaps this is the beginning of a metro government?

 

It's not like this area is known for passing ANY laws that increase our tax. If many areas won't even approve increases to their local proposed school levy, I can't imagine they'll increase taxes to fund public trans, when the majority of residents here still drive to/from work every day.

Public transportation directly affects nearly everyone in the short term, especially large employers.  K-12 schooling affects only parents and is regrettably viewed as a long term issue, thereby making levies easier to dismiss.  However, several levies consistently pass in the region, (1) funding for cleveland's and the county's library systems and (2) funding for the metroparks.  While a levy is different than a tax, the purpose is the same.  I believe it is critical that RTA begins a regional discussion to explore the possibility of implementing a 0.__% sales tax on surrounding counties.  how can land be utilized to it's fullest potential in the region without a region wide transportation system?  If RTA does not initiate this conversation, than whom?

 

 

Nice work with the RTA website!  I sent a letter to everyone listed on the site - Governor, state and US senators/representatives...it took 10 minutes.  I think everyone should do the same.

I really hope they are planning to pass these out at the upcoming public hearings.  Sh*t, if they make a supply of them available, I will distribute them on my train every day.

 

We made a limited print run available, and they will definitely be handed out at the hearings; our Citizens' Advisory Board members will also be pushing for citizen advocacy at most, if not all, of the hearings.

 

Finally, the Facts & Answers section of the brochure is also linked from the advocacy campaign page that's been posted at http://www.jointheride.com/.

 

Methinks our elected officials are about to get deluged with e-mails, and this is a good thing...

You might want to also refer people to the congress.org site; that is the central starting point where I contact all of my govt peeps (and where I originated my emails about increasing funding for public trans).  It makes it really easy for people to find their federal and state representatives and to contact them for free.

I really hope they are planning to pass these out at the upcoming public hearings.  Sh*t, if they make a supply of them available, I will distribute them on my train every day.

 

We made a limited print run available, and they will definitely be handed out at the hearings; our Citizens' Advisory Board members will also be pushing for citizen advocacy at most, if not all, of the hearings.

 

Finally, the Facts & Answers section of the brochure is also linked from the advocacy campaign page that's been posted at http://www.jointheride.com/.

 

Methinks our elected officials are about to get deluged with e-mails, and this is a good thing...

 

JetDog, is there a reason why local Mayors and Cleveland City Council is not on the list?

I really hope they are planning to pass these out at the upcoming public hearings. Sh*t, if they make a supply of them available, I will distribute them on my train every day.

 

We made a limited print run available, and they will definitely be handed out at the hearings; our Citizens' Advisory Board members will also be pushing for citizen advocacy at most, if not all, of the hearings.

 

Finally, the Facts & Answers section of the brochure is also linked from the advocacy campaign page that's been posted at http://www.jointheride.com/.

 

Methinks our elected officials are about to get deluged with e-mails, and this is a good thing...

 

JetDog, is there a reason why local Mayors and Cleveland City Council is not on the list?

 

local funding, minimal as it is, can't likely be expected to make up the budget shortfall we face (the sum total of state & local noncapital funds RTA received for FY 2007 was about 4.3 million, with the bulk of that being from the state)

 

essentially, it's a matter of "bang for the buck" -- but by all means, feel free to put the bug in their ears, it certainly couldn't hurt; local money is as green as any other kind

i got a great intern reply from the governor telling me that its not his problem. I think the intern misread my letter.

Update from my ride home:

 

Well, given yesterday's events I was hoping to start my efforts with the lady and elderly man I was sitting with and talking to yesterday, but neither of them made the 4:39.  So I'm waiting to get on and there are all these people and I have a huge stack of flyers in my bag, trying to figure out how to break the ice with people I never speak to.

 

The train comes and we board, and I sit down next to an older lady and I hold out a flyer and say, kind of loudly, "Would you like a flyer about RTA's budget cuts?" And she's like YEAH! so I give her one, and the people behind me were like, what is that, can I have one, and I"m like sure, so I give them some, then give the guy in front of me some, then the people across the way from me have their hands out.  I end up handing a small stack to the people in front of me and telling them to pass them along, and they do!  Each person takes one and passes them forward, then they take one, and so on.  I get up and walk to the people standing at the front and ask if they want one and they take them too.  Some people say no, but the majority of people take them. I sit back down and EVERYONE IN MY CAR IS READING THE FLYER.  Energized, I get up and go the back of the car where people face the other way.  Not as many people interested, they give me the "foil hat lady" look and someone asks me if I work for RTA. I say no, I'm just a concerned citizen and RTA rider and I thought other riders might want to know about what's being proposed and why, so some people took them.  I would estimate between the two cars I had 50 people with flyers.

 

The lady next to me gets done reading and is like, "Wow, I didn't know any of this.  I should write to my representatives or something."  So I tell her about congress.org and how you can contact all your federal and state/local government officials on there and it's really easy and it's FREE and she said she would do it tonight.  I said I didn't know any of it either and that's why I wanted to pass out the flyers, so that other people would know.

 

When I got off the train I had a small stack left so I gave one to a guy waiting for a bus in the front of the building and left the rest on the bench next to him.

 

Yay!!