Awesome job!!! Now that's activism! We should get UrbanOhioans to pass out these flyers on all the buses and trains we ride.

This is also worth reading, if you haven't seen it already. It's a staff editorial from the PD, the newspaper's official position....

 

Raising fares is better than cutting RTA service -- editorial

Friday, July 04, 2008

RTA fares have to rise

Posted by the editors at http:%%cat%%blog%%endcat%%.cleveland.com/ post_riposte/ on 6/30/08 at 3:22

p.m.

 

Under Joe Calabrese's leadership, the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Au thority has steered, deftly so far, through tight fiscal times. Ridership has risen for five straight years and was up by 10 percent through May from the previous year.

 

.....

Awesome job!!! Now that's activism! We should get UrbanOhioans to pass out these flyers on all the buses and trains we ride.

 

I think that's a fine idea, but I truly don't understand why every able bodied RTA person isn't doing this everywhere they can.  I have seen them staff up when "emergencies" arise, whether it's handing out flyers in tower city or extra staff on the platforms going and coming - I saw an RTA guy on the platform at Brookpark, 2 inside sitting down with radios and a 4th guy of course in the booth. Why aren't these people handing out the flyers?

Perhaps they don't realize their jobs are actually threatened. And in some union jobs, employees get some pretty good unemployment benefits. Others just don't think they can make a difference or don't believe in free will.

Commuters, especially on Park-and-Ride routes, which now cost just 25 cents more than others, should

prepare to pay more. Round trip, these routes cost just $4 a day. A dollar more would still be a bargain for

commuters who would otherwise pay for gas, downtown parking and wear and tear on their cars.

This exact point the PD is making was a key point in the email I sent to the RTA public-comment line, with a copy to two Board members who live in my municipality. If you want to talk market mechanisms, make these people bear more than they are now of the full costs of their choice to live so far out. Obviously it takes more fuel to transport a passenger from Solon to Public Square than from East 55th to East 105th, so why is the fare so similar? We don't want to jack it so high that it drives away those riders, but - just as the PD says - it can be higher than it is without rivaling the costs of driving, all things considered.

rockandroller, rock the f#ck on! :clap: It's like I've said - people are p!ssed and want to raise some h#ll, but without the right info (aka the flyer which does a good job of presenting the info), they don't really know who to raise h#ll at other than RTA. I also agree that RTA's own employees should be doing this legwork as well.

Great job rockandroller !!:clap:.  RTA..put her on the payroll.

Jerry or JetDog, do you think RTA could run that flyer on the front page of the PD and cleveland.com?

Jerry or JetDog, do you think RTA could run that flyer on the front page of the PD and cleveland.com?

 

Of course, if RTA has the money in their budget.  Unless RTA is going to get a placement  in "remnant" space for free and if newspapers are like magazine, that space wouldn't be on the front page. 

 

Lets hope the PD does a report/story on RTA and highlights the section.

Yeah, I said that wrong.  RTA is such a huge part of Cleveland that the PD would be stupid not to run that front and center for them.

Yeah, I said that wrong. RTA is such a huge part of Cleveland that the PD would be stupid not to run that front and center for them.

 

There are a lot of things they do or don't do that are stupid.  I'm sure RTA could pitch the idea to them but there is no control over what they put in the paper where and when.

Yeah, I said that wrong. RTA is such a huge part of Cleveland that the PD would be stupid not to run that front and center for them.

 

There are a lot of things they do or don't do that are stupid. I'm sure RTA could pitch the idea to them but there is no control over what they put in the paper where and when.

 

Thanks, I was going to say that while we control many things, the editorial content of the PD is not one of them. If it were as simple as telling them what to put on their front page, our publicity efforts would be a slam-dunk...

The Plain Dealer and cleveland.com already write a lot of "front and center" stories about RTA, granted they're usually negative cause that's how they roll over there, but do you think it's worth trying, seeing as how large of an impact this is having?  I mean, by the amount of comments that get posted with respect to RTA stories on cleveland.com, it's not exactly a story that would garner low readership...

How come the federal government can bail out the big banks and airline industry, but they can't help public transit agencies that are suffering as a result of the "oil crisis?" 

 

I was speaking (through a translator) to a group of Russian public administrators last week and a lot of the questions they had about Cleveland were geared towards transit.  They observed that the system is underutilized and far too expensive.  I explained that public funding is dwindling and is far worse than elsewhere in the country and they obviously felt that was unacceptable.  Anyways, just another perspective.

Russians think EVERYthing is unacceptable. :)

Post # 2843, about Trolleybuses or conversions. Do a search for "Trolleybus News". There is a lot to see. Check out what Seattle has done. They have a lot of experience with all types of trolleybuses. The duel mode ones that used to be run in the Tunnel by electricity overhead and diesel on the surface were no wires are. They took a Gilleg bus  or buses and put trolleybus guts into it.

Wish I could offer more information, but I couldn't get the route or bus #. An RTA bus turned left off E. 2nd onto Rockwell Avenue in front of Key Tower and almost ran people over at 5:45 p.m. or so when I was going home. I scoped the bus driver out, talking simultaneously on her cellphone and to a passenger by her side. She then proceeded to barrel through a red light at the intersection of Rockwell and Ontario. It was incredibly fortunate no one was hurt or killed. She didn't hit the breaks at all when she ran red. It could have been deadly.

How aggressive is RTA pressuring the State for better mass transit funding?

 

Joe Calabrese just ended a two-year term as President of OPTA, and he has lobbied the Statehouse hard for all of Ohio, not just Cleveland. Now, he is one of the top people on a statewide task force to plan the future of transportation. He is very very involved.

This is in response to two often-asked questions that have been asked here a lot.

 

Q. What is the cost difference for expenses for a one-car train vs a two-car train (heavy rail)?

A. The cost of a one-car train is the operator's salary, plus the cost of electricity. The cost of a two-car train is the operator, plus electricity times two. Both cars use exactly the same level of power.

 

For those of you who always assumed that rail is cheaper than bus, think again. RTA looked at the first 6 months of 2008, compared fuel costs vs. miles, and here is the result.

Bus: 85 cents per mile for fuel.

Rail: $1.65 per mile for fuel.

 

I'm sure those numbers will spark a lot of debate on this list. I'm also sure there are a lot of other reasons to support rail over bus, and I am not saying those aren't valid reasons. I am just saying here are some numbers...chew on them for a while, and please...don't shoot the messenger.

JetDog is jetting out of here for a few days, so I will make a point of stopping in at least once a day.

Bus: 85 cents per mile for fuel.

Rail: $1.65 per mile for fuel.

 

What about the cost per passenger mile?  I'm assuming that the rapid carries more people per mile than an average bus route so maybe it is more competitive if you look at that way. 

 

Do you have this data?

I would only shoot the messenger if the message is presented in a stilted way. Of course the train costs more than the bus -- when no one is on board either vehicle.

 

Show me real-world data, please.

Bus: 85 cents per mile for fuel.

Rail: $1.65 per mile for fuel.

 

What about the cost per passenger mile?  I'm assuming that the rapid carries more people per mile than an average bus route so maybe it is more competitive if you look at that way. 

 

Do you have this data?

 

Yes, the relative costs per "passenger miles" seems more relevant.

 

Jerry:

 

Query 1: does the cost of $.85/mile for buses take into account the stop & go, esp sitting in traffic or at lights, on heavy-traffic routes like Detroit, Superior, Lorain etc?  And if those ‘slowing’ factors do eat up more fuel - esp during rush periods - does not this even the playing field, if not favor rail, where speeds, stopping starting are generally more constant?

 

Query 2: Does not the speed, capacity and efficiency of rail more than trump whatever bare relative expenses for running each mode?  Consider, for example, that between West Blvd and Public Square, there can be X greater number of trains along the Red Line as opposed to the #26 Bus along Detroit?  Is this heightened by the greater number of people on each car and greater numbers of cars in a “train” as opposed to a single bus, EVEN IF you factor an accordion/articulated bus as will be running on ECP?  … and, yes, the playing field is tilted toward buses over that similar territory if we go a few blocks North and compare the #55s over the West Shoreway - but then, tilted back toward rail when one considers: a) the buses are non-stop over West Shoreway until near Public Square meaning that, in that territory, they will not/cannot board/discharge any more passengers, whereas the Red Line can/does at W. 65th and W. 25th, (and still maintain a competitive high speed; remember, even the 55s have to  nego traffic, stoplighs to Public Sq once they exit off the Shoreway to (I assume) Lakeside in the WHD; and what if the ramp is backed up?) and, b) there’s always the greater possibility of a traffic jam/slowdown on the W. Shoreway, esp as the population along this corridor grows w/ such projects as Battery Park…

 

Query 3: Given at least some accuracy of the above premises, wouldn’t RTA, esp now during this fuel/financial crunch, operate its rail bus system in greater tandem in the traditional manner that can maximize the capacity of both in a more efficient manner, that is, routing more gas-burning, slower/inconsistent speed, lesser capacity buses into the faster/constant speed, greater capacity/efficiency rapid transit rather than, as RTA too often does: run buses parallel to train routes where the former competes with/duplicates the latter?

 

Query 4: when you cite the Rapid's higher $1.65/mile for fuel, exactly what fuel do you mean?  How are you interpreting "fuel?"

 

... I'll stop for now; but I'd like your response to these.

 

 

As I said in the earlier post, "I'm also sure there are a lot of other reasons to support rail over bus, and I am not saying those aren't valid reasons."

 

I thought the numbers were interesting, so I shared them. "Fuel" for rail is the cost of electricity for operating a rail car. Yes, RTA is planning to end some bus routes at rail stations, instead of operating them to a downtown location.

 

As I come across other data that may interest you, I will be happy to post it. I realize that I am not responding to all questions at this time.

I don't find those figures interesting, because citing the cost per mile for fuel is not a useful figure.  It's not real-world (as KJP puts it).  It's not a valid figure with which to to argue about bus or rail either way or for RTA to properly assess it's costs. 

 

What matters is how many passenger miles RTA is getting get per unit of fuel on the bus and on the rails.

 

Does RTA have these figures?

 

When I get them, I will share them. And I am not arguing anything. The number was posted, period.

Get Ohio on the bus... now!

 

Greetings,

 

 

Public transit. It delivers valuable benefits everyday to commuters, local communities, and the environment.

 

But in Ohio, transit bus and train services are facing severe budget and service cuts.  Public transit needs your help!

 

TAKE ACTION NOW!

 

Each weekday, nearly half a million Ohioans rely on a transit bus or train to commute to work or school, visit the doctor, or travel to another important destination. Public transit delivers more than just a safe, convenient, and reliable commute. It also saves commuters money, stimulates jobs and local economic growth, offers mobility choices especially to rural residents and the elderly and handicapped, reduces highway congestion, encourages efficient land use, and reduces fuel consumption, lessening America's dependence on foreign oil and improving air quality!

 

Despite its many benefits, public transit is seriously under-funded in Ohio. The Buckeye State ranks 12th in transit ridership, but only 42nd in the nation for state transit funding per trip.

 

Don't let Ohio's public transit agencies fall further behind. Please send a letter to Ohio Governor Ted Strickland and your state lawmakers in Columbus.  Urge them to make public transit a top priority for the next state operating budget—if not sooner!  Please feel free to make your letter personal by adding your own thoughts and concerns.  Personalized letters are especially effective!

 

TAKE ACTION NOW!

 

Sincerely,

 

 

 

 

 

 

Keith Dimoff

Executive Director

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Send a letter to the following decision maker(s):

Governor Ted Strickland (if you live in Ohio)

Your Representative (if you live in Ohio)

Your State Senator (if you live in Ohio)

 

 

Below is the sample letter:

 

Subject: Help keep antibiotics effective.

 

Dear [decision maker name automatically inserted here],

 

Ohio's public transit systems are in crisis.

 

I'm writing to urge you to help solve this crisis by sufficiently funding Ohio's public transit systems in the next state operating budget.

 

Each weekday, nearly half a million Ohioans rely on a transit bus or train to commute to work or school, visit the doctor, or travel to another important destination. Public transit delivers more than just a safe, convenient, and reliable commute. It also saves commuters money, stimulates jobs and local economic growth, offers mobility choices especially to rural residents and the elderly and handicapped, reduces highway congestion, encourages efficient land use, and reduces fuel consumption, lessening America's dependence on foreign oil and improving air quality.

 

Despite its many benefits, public transit is seriously under-funded in Ohio. The Buckeye State ranks 12th in transit ridership, but only 42nd in the nation for state transit funding per trip.

 

Here?s how we compare in per capita state spending on transit to some competitor states: Illinois, $63.29; Pennsylvania, $61.25; Michigan, $20.73; Ohio, $1.58.

 

State transit funding in Ohio has fallen drastically in recent years, from $43 million in 2000-2001 to $16 million in 2006-2007. It will take years for local transit to recover.

 

Don't let Ohio's public transit infrastructure fall further behind! I strongly urge you to make public transit a top priority for the next state operating budget, if not sooner.

 

Thank you for your consideration.

 

 

Sincerely,

 

[Your Name]

Below is the sample letter:

 

Subject: Help keep antibiotics effective.

 

Um, somebody at the Ohio Environmental Council needs a proofreader.  Nevertheless, I sent my emails weeks ago.  Thanks, k!

When I get them, I will share them. And I am not arguing anything. The number was posted, period.

 

Thanks Jerry.  I'm not arguing either, really.  I very much appreciate the information you provide.

 

Hi Jerry- Just wanted to let you know that red line car number 195 needs some work. I was on the 6:45ish train from TC to the airport this morning and not only were there no automated announcements, but none whatsoever, even though the operator was making them (I guess maybe the speakers weren't working?). Additionally, the scrolling signs weren't working either. The side of the train said not in service, and the front and the back said Brookpark. Otherwise it was a pleasant ride! Thanks!

Brunswick: City looking at alternatives to RTA

 

by Melissa Martin

Saturday August 02, 2008, 9:00 AM

 

As of Oct. 1, bus service from the Laurel Square shopping center to downtown Cleveland may no longer be operational, but that doesn't mean it will be impossible for the city's commuters to get to work using public transportation.

 

.....

 

http://www.cleveland.com/sunnews/index.ssf/2008/08/brunswick_city_looking_at_alte.html

This is unbelievable to me: "Why haven't you asked us to pay a little more instead of just taking away our only way to get to work?" Tulenko asked Calabrese. "Some of us have been riding the bus to work for more than 25 years and don't have cars. And I, for one, know that if I can't get to work, I'm going to lose my job, the city of Cleveland is going to lose another taxpayer and my house is going to be another house added to the foreclosure list."

 

Nobody told Tulenko to MOVE TO BRUNSWICK!  It is not RTA's fault that she lives in Brunswick.  I can't believe nobody is pointing this out to her.  I chose to live where I live; if riding RTA to work is 100% dependent upon my keeping my job and they are going to cut services, I would MOVE CLOSER TO MY JOB to keep it, or BUY A CAR.  There's no guarantee in life or state law that says you can get public transportation to and from work.  These people's personal offense to what is purely a budgetary matter is unbelievable to me.

^I couldn't agree more.  When I read that part, I had the same reaction.  No need to b!tch if someone lives that far from their employment; I'm sure that this person CHOSE to live in Brunstucky when gas was cheap.  Oh well.

I agree and if that was pointed out and not reported, those living in her community will have an excuse for not living in Cuyahoga County. :roll: :roll:

 

I say cut it and let THEIR counties/communities come up with funding to subsides any routes outside of Cuyahoga County.

 

My other solution is to let GCRTA take over control or ALL transportation authorities within out eight county region, build commuter rail into downtown but we all know thats a wet dream and won't happen.  :wink:

RTA to host hearings on rate hike and route changes

 

Posted by Maggi Martin August 02, 2008 14:40PM

Categories: FYI

 

 

The Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority will host five public hearings to discuss proposed fare hikes and cuts to bus routes.

 

....

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/08/rta_to_host_hearings_on_rate_h.html

I agree and if that was pointed out and not reported, those living in her community will have an excuse for not living in Cuyahoga County. :roll: :roll:

 

I say cut it and let THEIR counties/communities come up with funding to subsides any routes outside of Cuyahoga County.

 

My other solution is to let GCRTA take over control or ALL transportation authorities within out eight county region, build commuter rail into downtown but we all know thats a wet dream and won't happen.  :wink:

 

On the one hand, we have a transit admin that is not expansive and seems to rather want just a county operation.  We have Lorain county that's pushing the West Shore commuter rail project while some West Side Burbs, esp Bay Village, are either indiffernt or hostile to it. We should have a truly Regional Transit Authority and to keep calling our CuyCtyTA an RTA is absurd; at the very least change the name... If we're to have a bi-county rail system like West Shore, we would have to create some sort of bi-county system through which to funnel funds to build and maintain this one particular rail system --not unlike, I think, Tri-Rail in South FLA, or, on a larger scale, Chicago's RTA which runs both the Metra commuter trains and PACE suburban bus sytem.

I agree clvlndr.

On the one hand, we have a transit admin that is not expansive and seems to rather want just a county operation.

 

Not true. Calabrese has met with the Lorain County Commissioners and proposed that GCRTA merge with Lorain County Transit. For all I know, he's met with other officials in the other collar counties. But I can't say for certain. But I am certain he met with the folks in Lorain County.

 

While I disagree totally with Joe C on his beliefs about rail transit, I agree with his increasingly frequent calls for a multi-county transit authority. Joe recognizes, as do I, that since the wealth, population and tax base has expanded beyond Cuyahoga County, so too must the RTA, its service area and its resource base.

^ It would be ideal if increased state funding for transit was tied to consolidation of agencies in each metro area -- make it an offer that the agencies can't refuse to get over any concerns that would exist in the outlying counties about being swallowed up by the bigger GCRTA.

What about the 1% sales tax Cuyahoga county pays to subsudize the RTA?  Would other counties be willing to contribute as much?

On the one hand, we have a transit admin that is not expansive and seems to rather want just a county operation. 

 

Not true. Calabrese has met with the Lorain County Commissioners and proposed that GCRTA merge with Lorain County Transit. For all I know, he's met with other officials in the other collar counties. But I can't say for certain. But I am certain he met with the folks in Lorain County.

 

While I disagree totally with Joe C on his beliefs about rail transit, I agree with his increasingly frequent calls for a multi-county transit authority. Joe recognizes, as do I, that since the wealth, population and tax base has expanded beyond Cuyahoga County, so too must the RTA, its service area and its resource base.

 

I (happily) stand corrected.

What about the 1% sales tax Cuyahoga county pays to subsudize the RTA? Would other counties be willing to contribute as much?

 

Only if voters approve it, like Cuyahoga County voters did in 1974 in passing the 1-cent sales tax for RTA.

Good morning.

 

FYI on regionalization. Joe Calabrese comes from upstate NY, where the term "region" applies to a central city and adjoining counties. Under that framework, for RTA to be truly "regional", there would be one transit system serving Cuyahoga, Lorain, Medina, Lake, Geauga and Summit counties. Certainly, there are a lot of people moving over those borders every day. Perhaps someday, this may be a reality.

Several people on the list asked for these numbers. Sorry it took me a while to find them. They are from the 2007 National Transit Database, the FTA's primary national database for statistics on the transit industry.

 

Bus:    30.69 passenger miles per unit of fuel

Paratransit:  10.82 passenger miles per unit of fuel

Heavy Rail:  1.79 passenger miles per unit of power

Light Rail:  1.53 passenger miles per unit of power

 

Several people on the list asked for these numbers. Sorry it took me a while to find them. They are from the 2007 National Transit Database, the FTA's primary national database for statistics on the transit industry.

 

Bus:   30.69 passenger miles per unit of fuel

Paratransit: 10.82 passenger miles per unit of fuel

Heavy Rail: 1.79 passenger miles per unit of power

Light Rail: 1.53 passenger miles per unit of power

 

 

What are the 'units'?  Gallon of gas?  Kilowatt hour?  Or are these numbers per equivalent energy unit (gas energy equivalent to 1 KWh)? 

 

Sorry for the questions, I'm just trying to understand the huge difference.

That doesn't make sense. Try this source instead, the U.S. Dept. of Energy and the Oak Ridge National Laboratory (San Jose light rail was singled out because the author of an article who used the data is from San Jose data and because he wanted to see some sort of electric car used in his town)....

 

http://cta.ornl.gov/data/index.shtml

 

Here's some other data....

 

http://www.bts.gov/publications/national_transportation_statistics/2000/html/4-20.htm

^^you can ride a tesla coil to work?

And more. This is also from the National Transit Database......

 

Motor Bus -- 3,733 BTU/PM

Commuter Rail -- 2,766  BTU/PM

Light rail  -- 3,458  BTU/PM

Heavy rail -- 2,692 BTU/PM

 

 

 

^Great information KJP. 

 

Thanks!