As to #3531, in Cleveland in general.

LOL.

:?What circulators are necessary?( I am from Niles and hardly get to Cleveland.) Do they have to be more frequent than an hour? Do they need to be big or small vehicles?

 

There are no "requirements." The only requirements are that the level of service and the vehicles types used are based on ridership and available funding. Otherwise I'm not sure how to answer your question.

I'm not really understanding MrNiles's questions above so I hope no one minds if I ask a question on a different topic.

 

This probably should be addressed by Jerry or JetDog, but if anyone else has an idea that works too. Is there any specific logic behind how close RTA places bus stops? The reason I'm thinking of this is last week I took the 39 home from work in the middle of the day to get to a doctors appointment and I kept noticing all along Lakeshore blvd through Collinwood the bus stops are ridiculously close to each other. In one spot I could see 3 stops within 150yds. Considering the bus was overcrowded, and it took what felt like a couple minutes for people to make their way through the crowd to get to the door at each stop, it seems like the route could be noticeably faster if not for all the stops so close to each other. And even worse than that at E185th and Lakeshore, there are stops on both sides of the intersection. I know its a busy intersection, but is it really that busy that we can't expect the people getting off there to walk across the street? I'd have to assume that there are other routes with the same issue, so I'm curious if RTA tries to keep stops any certain distance apart as a policy, and if not would doing so help any routes to save a couple minutes?

The issue isn't whether there is transit service available. Even people who live in the exurbs have some transit service available. But it runs every hour or only during rush hours one direction. The issue is whether there is driving-competitive transit service available. People aren't altruistic. They will use something only if it benefits them. And the only way we can make transit a mode of choice is to invest more money into it.

 

This is exactly right.  I am dying to never use my car again.  However taking public transit to many of the destinations I frequent simply isn't practical.

 

I was encouraged that for all the letters I have written to public officials requesting increased funding that I received a response although I am still waiting for funding to be increased...

I'm not really understanding MrNiles's questions above so I hope no one minds if I ask a question on a different topic.

 

This probably should be addressed by Jerry or JetDog, but if anyone else has an idea that works too. Is there any specific logic behind how close RTA places bus stops? The reason I'm thinking of this is last week I took the 39 home from work in the middle of the day to get to a doctors appointment and I kept noticing all along Lakeshore blvd through Collinwood the bus stops are ridiculously close to each other. In one spot I could see 3 stops within 150yds. Considering the bus was overcrowded, and it took what felt like a couple minutes for people to make their way through the crowd to get to the door at each stop, it seems like the route could be noticeably faster if not for all the stops so close to each other. And even worse than that at E185th and Lakeshore, there are stops on both sides of the intersection. I know its a busy intersection, but is it really that busy that we can't expect the people getting off there to walk across the street? I'd have to assume that there are other routes with the same issue, so I'm curious if RTA tries to keep stops any certain distance apart as a policy, and if not would doing so help any routes to save a couple minutes?

 

I <em><b>believe</b></em>, and I will confirm this with our Planning staff, that the distance between stops is based on population density numbers in a given area. This would explain why stops downtown or in first-ring, population-dense communities are so frequent (perhaps sometimes appearing TOO frequent), keeping in mind that "population" can be interpreted to mean workday population as well as permanent residential population, while those in the outer-rings are spaced further apart.

 

I had asked this very question when I lived in Buffalo, NY, because I had some of the same concerns regarding what seemed to be overly-frequent stop placement on a low-use portion of a given route. I know that there are areas where we have eliminated some stops, but this can also turn into a touchy issue when you attempt to eliminate the <em><b>one</em></b> stop used by the <em><b>one</em></b> person who knows how to bend their councilperson's ear...

^Thanks, I suppose that makes sense.

Americans are riding public transit at record levels -- but not in Cleveland.

 

Transit ridership across the country jumped 6.5 percent from July to September, the highest quarterly gain in 25 years, the American Public Transportation Association reported Monday.

 

People who parked their cars and rode trains and buses when gas was more than $4 a gallon have become loyal customers, said association spokeswoman Virginia Miller.

 

Many cities also saw ridership increases during the first nine months of 2008. The Greater Cleveland Transit Authority was one of the exceptions.

 

RTA's ridership in those nine months was virtually unchanged, even dipping slightly. Ridership was 0.36 percent less than it was during the same period last year. Only 24 of the 213 U.S. transit agencies that submitted year-to-date information to the association reported decreases.

 

However, RTA's quarterly ridership rose 3.51 percent, but even then its growth was lower than Akron's, Canton's and Lake County's.

 

The Cleveland agency blames the city's economy

 

"We are really tied to Cleveland," said spokesman Jerry Masek. "RTA can't control its ridership. There are other external factors."

 

Masek said the agency is hobbled by its spoke-and-wheel configuration, with Cleveland the hub for all rapid and most bus routes. Because more than 60 percent of RTA riders commute to work, ridership declines when downtown jobs are lost.

 

Additionally, the current ridership numbers don't reflect RTA's fare increases in October and routes eliminated in November, which could lead to a further decrease in the number of people who take public transportation.

 

While RTA's ridership is linked to employment, that's increasingly not true in other cities, Miller said.

 

"Not only is unemployment rising, but transit ridership is surging," she said. "This is kind of uncharted territory and not the usual trend."

 

She expects another boom year for public transportation across the United States. It may surpass last year, when the 10.3 billion trips taken were the highest number in 50 years.

 

But despite ridership gains, transit agencies face financial difficulties because of declining income from gas and sales taxes and other revenue, Miller said. They are raising fares and cutting service.

 

Charles Odimgbe, executive director of the Stark Area Regional Transit Authority in Canton, said his agency mirrors many others.

 

Ridership increased 17 percent for the third quarter and is up almost 10 percent for the year, he said.

 

Odimgbe was surprised when ridership rose even as gas prices declined.

 

Some buses are filled to capacity and the agency will decide early next year whether to add or adjust some routes, he said. However, the budget is tight because sales tax revenue has declined, he said. A bus fare increased to $1.25 this year and was supposed to go up 25 cents on Jan. 1, but won't for at least another month because fuel prices have dropped, he said.

 

"We think people are actually making a change in behavior in terms of the mode of transportation," he said. "New riders are finding that riding the bus is not that bad after all."

 

The Cleveland agency blames the city's economy

 

"We are really tied to Cleveland," said spokesman Jerry Masek. "RTA can't control its ridership. There are other external factors."

 

Masek said the agency is hobbled by its spoke-and-wheel configuration, with Cleveland the hub for all rapid and most bus routes. Because more than 60 percent of RTA riders commute to work, ridership declines when downtown jobs are lost.

 

I don't know if I understand these statements.  It is not as if other cities aren't struggling, yet there ridership is going up.

 

Also, I would think that the less money people have, the more likely it is that they will use public transportation.

 

**Note** I'm not blaming RTA for this.

 

The Cleveland agency blames the city's economy

 

"We are really tied to Cleveland," said spokesman Jerry Masek. "RTA can't control its ridership. There are other external factors."

 

Masek said the agency is hobbled by its spoke-and-wheel configuration, with Cleveland the hub for all rapid and most bus routes. Because more than 60 percent of RTA riders commute to work, ridership declines when downtown jobs are lost.

 

I don't know if I understand these statements.  It is not as if other cities aren't struggling, yet there ridership is going up.

 

Also, I would think that the less money people have, the more likely it is that they will use public transportation.

 

A - you can modify your post, so you don't have to post an additional "post".

B - When posting, can you PLEASE be sure to include a link to the source.

 

Here is the link to the article.

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/12/greater_cleveland_bucks_nation.html

 

Why is Cleveland being the hub a problem?

 

On a side note, has the RTA ever thought of using pay zones?  In Milan, London, and many other cities, the farther out you ride, the more you pay.

 

Does the RTA have anything like that in place?  I am assuming it does, because it does not make sense that taking the rapid from Windermere to the airport costs the same as taking the corridor from E.17 to Public Square.

So sorry  :oops:

Here's the link to the P-D story on GCRTA riderhip being down slightly:

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/12/greater_cleveland_bucks_nation.html

 

I'm curious as to how light rail and bus ridership compared...especially since both "hub and spoke" into downtown.

 

Columbus (COTA) is a hub & spoke and bus-only system and they saw a continued rise in ridership...even given the economy.

I'm sorry, but if RTA can't achieve ridership increases in this economy, I'm not sure when they would ever be able to.  And apparently waiving people onto the buses and rapids because the machines don't work isn't helping the numbers.  I know I'm waived through more than .36% of the time.  Informing the drivers and rapid station workers of the importance of ridership numbers and its relationship to keeping their jobs may put a dent in that occurance.  This is very disappointing news in my opinion.

I'm sorry, but if RTA can't achieve ridership increases in this economy, I'm not sure when they would ever be able to.  And apparently waiving people onto the buses and rapids because the machines don't work isn't helping the numbers.  I know I'm waived through more than .36% of the time.  Informing the drivers and rapid station workers of the importance of ridership numbers and its relationship to keeping their jobs may put a dent in that occurance.  This is very disappointing news in my opinion.

 

When you are waved thru, do you contact RTA to inform them of machines/turnstiles/fare boxes that are not properly working and report the workers who are waving you thru??

^While it's obviously in the best interests of everyone (RTA *and* riders) to make sure fares are being collected, etc. - give me a break.

I don't get paid to spend my day calling RTA's customer service line to complain about not swiping my monthly pass.  If RTA values these numbers so much they need to be countering this themselves.  They know it's happening.

^While it's obviously in the best interests of everyone (RTA *and* riders) to make sure fares are being collected, etc. - give me a break.

 

Why not tell them?

I don't get paid to spend my day calling RTA's customer service line to complain about not swiping my monthly pass.  If RTA values these numbers so much they need to be countering this themselves.  They know it's happening.

 

So it's easier to complain here?  Its possible they don't know or their rather OUR workers don't report stuff.

 

I agree they need to be on top of it, but what's wrong with calling/emailing that you have an issue?

^While it's obviously in the best interests of everyone (RTA *and* riders) to make sure fares are being collected, etc. - give me a break.

 

Why not tell them?

I don't get paid to spend my day calling RTA's customer service line to complain about not swiping my monthly pass.  If RTA values these numbers so much they need to be countering this themselves.  They know it's happening.

 

So it's easier to complain here?  Its possible they don't know or their rather OUR workers don't report stuff.

 

I agree they need to be on top of it, but what's wrong with calling/emailing that you have an issue?

 

If RTA is not aware that a majority of these boxes are not working, then god help us.  :x

 

While I do not dispute that riders should alert the RTA of various problems, the fact that they are the company that runs this thing yet they do not know that their own fare boxes are not working is asinine. 

 

MTS, I understand what you are saying.  But seriously, RTA needs to be held to some accountability. 

MTS, I understand what you are saying.  But seriously, RTA needs to be held to some accountability. 

 

I don't disagree with that.  Jerry or JetDog can you comment?

Ultimately, the RTA is part of the service industry.  People use services for quality of service.  Plain and simple.  The quality of RTA's service isn't that great.  That's the problem; nothing else.  I'm sure we can toss out a million theories as to why, but I'm not sure that's any of the customer's problem.  But consider a few basic items that go a long way towards this:

 

- There are people who want to take public transportation who can't because it's just not practical all the time....and these aren't people who live in transit unfreindly areas.

 

- The collection system is quite simply horribly planned.  Aside from fare boxes not working, the idea of paying when you get off the train is perhaps the dumbest thing I've ever heard of, and paying when you get on a train isn't that well thought out either.  You should be forced to pay upon entering the system, period.  Get on a bus - pay.  Pay before you enter the train platform.  Any reasons excuses why that can't work is just, well, an excuse.  Make it happen.

 

Consider my RTA trip to the airport on Thanksgiving Day.  I enter Tower City early in the morning of Thanksgiving and see a fleet of RTA workers standing there at the turnstiles.  I am ready to have my fare card swiped when they tell me "pay on the train".  That's ridiculous.  I, a rider, am about to enter the system.  You have ample employees sitting there to process my payment and ensure I pay yet they tell me to pay on the train where there is 1 employee and multiple points of entry to the system.  So whatever, I go and board the train and swipe my card in the fare box, only it doesn't work.  The train driver, who has to keep a schedule, tried to help me, but ultimately just say "go ahead" because it wasn't working.  So I never paid (along with everyone else who got on the train that morning).  Meanwhile, if this had happened in the lobby, I could have had those employees (who were otherwise standing there doing nothing...all 10 of them) take care of this issue while not interrupting service to ensure I paid.

 

The consumers responsibility is to consume.  The service providers responsibility is to provide service.  If they need the consumer to tell them what's wrong with their service, then that simply points to the overall problem:  it's not being run properly.

Ultimately, the RTA is part of the service industry.  People use services for quality of service.  Plain and simple.  The quality of RTA's service isn't that great.  That's the problem; nothing else.  I'm sure we can toss out a million theories as to why, but I'm not sure that's any of the customer's problem.  But consider a few basic items that go a long way towards this:

 

- There are people who want to take public transportation who can't because it's just not practical all the time....and these aren't people who live in transit unfreindly areas.

 

- The collection system is quite simply horribly planned.  Aside from fare boxes not working, the idea of paying when you get off the train is perhaps the dumbest thing I've ever heard of, and paying when you get on a train isn't that well thought out either.  You should be forced to pay upon entering the system, period.  Get on a bus - pay.  Pay before you enter the train platform.  Any reasons excuses why that can't work is just, well, an excuse.  Make it happen.

 

Consider my RTA trip to the airport on Thanksgiving Day.  I enter Tower City early in the morning of Thanksgiving and see a fleet of RTA workers standing there at the turnstiles.  I am ready to have my fare card swiped when they tell me "pay on the train".  That's ridiculous.  I, a rider, am about to enter the system.  You have ample employees sitting there to process my payment and ensure I pay yet they tell me to pay on the train where there is 1 employee and multiple points of entry to the system.  So whatever, I go and board the train and swipe my card in the fare box, only it doesn't work.  The train driver, who has to keep a schedule, tried to help me, but ultimately just say "go ahead" because it wasn't working.  So I never paid (along with everyone else who got on the train that morning).  Meanwhile, if this had happened in the lobby, I could have had those employees (who were otherwise standing there doing nothing...all 10 of them) take care of this issue while not interrupting service to ensure I paid.

 

The consumers responsibility is to consume.  The service providers responsibility is to provide service.  If they need the consumer to tell them what's wrong with their service, then that simply points to the overall problem:  it's not being run properly.

 

By its definition, living in a transit friendly environment means it is convenient to use it.  Maybe I do not understand what you meant.

 

You also said the collection system is horribly planned.  You criticized paying when you get off or on.  Well how else do you propose to do it?  The dysfunctional fare boxes are supposed to have you pay before getting on.  Thus, I would not call that horrible planning.

 

Regarding your RTA employee problem, maybe it's a union issue.  They obviously tie the hands of management.

By its definition, living in a transit friendly environment means it is convenient to use it.  Maybe I do not understand what you meant.

 

You also said the collection system is horribly planned.  You criticized paying when you get off or on.  Well how else do you propose to do it?  The dysfunctional fare boxes are supposed to have you pay before getting on.  Thus, I would not call that horrible planning.

 

Regarding your RTA employee problem, maybe it's a union issue.  They obviously tie the hands of management.

 

As for living in transit friendly areas but having it not be practical...See KJP trying to get to work using the RTA.  Or, another example, I live in the west bank of the flats and just finished graduate school at CSU.  To get to CSU from home my options were:  Transit (20-25 minutes, including walking/waiting) or car (5 minutes).  For the record, I still took transit most of the time, however many times, I simply ended up walking the 1.5 miles it is from my condo.  I'm not complaining about it, but if the option to take a bus was there and it took me 10-15 minutes, driving would never have even crossed my mind...and on many days, I wouldn't have walked in the rain/cold thus giving the RTA mroe ridership.

 

As for payment...I'm criticizing paying when you get off the train.  I don't see why that should ever happen.  It's pretty easy to hop off a train and not pay. 

 

I'm also criticizing paying when you board the train as oppose to paying prior to entering the train platform.  Like I mentioned, the train platform can be staffed with people (and, for example, the Tower City platform already is) to ensure payment is processed.  Instead, its left to the driver - who has other responsibilities, like driving the train - to do it.

I'm also criticizing paying when you board the train as oppose to paying prior to entering the train platform.  Like I mentioned, the train platform can be staffed with people (and, for example, the Tower City platform already is) to ensure payment is processed.  Instead, its left to the driver - who has other responsibilities, like driving the train - to do it.

 

To expand on this part - take the Settler's Landing platform.  Anyone can walk up to that, ticket or not.  During Browns games, there is no way the driver can monitor who paid and who didn't as they board the train - there are too many people.  And then when you get off the train, there is a mass of people exiting and all you have to do is flash your ticket to the police officer or RTA employee as you get off - it could be any ticket really, a 5 ride farecard that you may or may not have used.  I've used this for many Browns games and frequently haven't even had the opportunity to swipe my card on the way there. 

 

The train station there (and anywhere) should be completely enclosed with some type of revolving door or turnstile, or other barrier that prohibits entry without payment.

Well to comment on the article posted above and leave the last few posts alone, I'm thinking one of the major reasons that RTA didn't see significant increases was that such a large portion of the people in the Greater Cleveland area were already using RTA.

 

I would also think that the economy is hitting the Cuyahoga County sales taxes harder than some surrounding counties causing RTA to cut routes, making it more of a burdon for many people to take transit.

Well to comment on the article posted above and leave the last few posts alone, I'm thinking one of the major reasons that RTA didn't see significant increases was that such a large portion of the people in the Greater Cleveland area were already using RTA.

 

I don't know if I agree with this.  I mean was the RTA the lone exception where numbers were stagnant because ridership had already peaked?

 

SHS, I understand now what you meant by the payment process.  I agree that for all rapid stations there should be some sort of enclosure that forces riders to pay before even approaching the platform.   

Population and job loss probably has something to do with it too.  Hard to have ridership gains if you have less potential customers, and they are less likely to have a job to go to, or money to shop with.

Ultimately, the RTA is part of the service industry.  People use services for quality of service.  Plain and simple.  The quality of RTA's service isn't that great.  That's the problem; nothing else.  I'm sure we can toss out a million theories as to why, but I'm not sure that's any of the customer's problem.  But consider a few basic items that go a long way towards this:

 

- There are people who want to take public transportation who can't because it's just not practical all the time....and these aren't people who live in transit unfreindly areas.

 

- The collection system is quite simply horribly planned.  Aside from fare boxes not working, the idea of paying when you get off the train is perhaps the dumbest thing I've ever heard of, and paying when you get on a train isn't that well thought out either.  You should be forced to pay upon entering the system, period.  Get on a bus - pay.  Pay before you enter the train platform.  Any reasons excuses why that can't work is just, well, an excuse.  Make it happen.

 

Consider my RTA trip to the airport on Thanksgiving Day.  I enter Tower City early in the morning of Thanksgiving and see a fleet of RTA workers standing there at the turnstiles.  I am ready to have my fare card swiped when they tell me "pay on the train".  That's ridiculous.  I, a rider, am about to enter the system.  You have ample employees sitting there to process my payment and ensure I pay yet they tell me to pay on the train where there is 1 employee and multiple points of entry to the system.  So whatever, I go and board the train and swipe my card in the fare box, only it doesn't work.  The train driver, who has to keep a schedule, tried to help me, but ultimately just say "go ahead" because it wasn't working.  So I never paid (along with everyone else who got on the train that morning).  Meanwhile, if this had happened in the lobby, I could have had those employees (who were otherwise standing there doing nothing...all 10 of them) take care of this issue while not interrupting service to ensure I paid.

 

The consumers responsibility is to consume.  The service providers responsibility is to provide service.  If they need the consumer to tell them what's wrong with their service, then that simply points to the overall problem:  it's not being run properly.

 

SHS96. I dont understand this post at all.

 

Consumers do consumer however, if they do not share their views with the providere (manufacture/marketer) the provider has no information to improve.  There is only so much "internal" QA a company can do.

Well, it sounds like most of the problems we are talking about here should be reported by the employees themselves.  These aren't part time kids on their first jobs here.

I'm also criticizing paying when you board the train as oppose to paying prior to entering the train platform.  Like I mentioned, the train platform can be staffed with people (and, for example, the Tower City platform already is) to ensure payment is processed.  Instead, its left to the driver - who has other responsibilities, like driving the train - to do it.

 

To expand on this part - take the Settler's Landing platform.  Anyone can walk up to that, ticket or not.  During Browns games, there is no way the driver can monitor who paid and who didn't as they board the train - there are too many people.  And then when you get off the train, there is a mass of people exiting and all you have to do is flash your ticket to the police officer or RTA employee as you get off - it could be any ticket really, a 5 ride farecard that you may or may not have used.  I've used this for many Browns games and frequently haven't even had the opportunity to swipe my card on the way there. 

 

The train station there (and anywhere) should be completely enclosed with some type of revolving door or turnstile, or other barrier that prohibits entry without payment.

 

Part of that is historical, as the platforms in Shaker cannot support a contained paid farezone.  How do YOU suggest that is fixed??

 

SHS96. I dont understand this post at all.

 

Consumers do consumer however, if they do not share their views with the providere (manufacture/marketer) the provider has no information to improve. There is only so much "internal" QA a company can do.

 

On my Thanksgiving morning trip - I encountered 11 employees.  1 of which was responsible for doing all the work (driving the train and making sure payment was collected).  I shouldn't have to point out that imbalance to the RTA.

 

Observation is a powerful information tool.

Population and job loss probably has something to do with it too. Hard to have ridership gains if you have less potential customers, and they are less likely to have a job to go to, or money to shop with.

 

This probably has everything to do with it.  Given the center city and county population trends (sharply down), just holding ridership steady is a victory.  I've seen no data, but I'd bet downtown employment has been shrinking over the last several months too.

 

As for fare collection: RTA knows it's fare boxes are not working well (remember that PD report a few months ago), so I don't know if they really need to be reminded every time someone is waved through.  Hopefully POP can be expanded to the Green/Blue line in the not too distant future so the entire rail system has a uniform and intuitive fare collection system. 

 

I'm sure it's been pointed out before, but one of the strangest RTA experiences is transferring between the Red Line and Blue/Green Lines at Tower City; instead of just walking from one set of platforms to another (as you would in any other city), you leave the payment zone and then have to reenter it.

Population and job loss probably has something to do with it too.  Hard to have ridership gains if you have less potential customers, and they are less likely to have a job to go to, or money to shop with.

 

This probably has everything to do with it.  Given the center city and county population trends (sharply down), just holding ridership steady is a victory.  I've seen no data, but I'd bet downtown employment has been shrinking over the last several months too.

 

As for fare collection: RTA knows it's fare boxes are not working well (remember that PD report a few months ago), so I don't know if they really need to be reminded every time someone is waved through.  Hopefully POP can be expanded to the Green/Blue line in the not too distant future so the entire rail system has a uniform and intuitive fare collection system. 

 

I'm sure it's been pointed out before, but one of the strangest RTA experiences is transferring between the Red Line and Blue/Green Lines at Tower City; instead of just walking from one set of platforms to another (as you would in any other city), you leave the payment zone and then have to reenter it.

 

thats because HISTORICALLY they ran as two seperate systems and had two seperate terminals.

 

 

As I said when the new TC station was built.  People should not have to chose, which "line" to go , but that would require RTA to change the way we pay back then.

 

The only stations that RTA can modify with a "paid fare zone" are Green Road, W. Green, Belvoir, Warrensville, Lee Rd (blue line) Shaker Square and those west.  The AT GRADE stations cannot be modified.  If someone knows how to do this, tell me how.

 

The only other solution is to have a conductor on each train.  Are we willing to have services cut, to pay for those employees?  How do you do it?

^Yes, I think most of understand that the strangely non-uniform fare payment systems are a result of different line histories.

 

And no, you don't need to modify ANY stations to make rail transit vehicles paid fare zones.  There is no reason (other than start up costs) that the Green/Blue line can't be POP just like the HealthLine.  In fact, you don't even need station fare vending machines- as an interim step, you could operate like the HealthLine now, where those with passes can enter any door and those without passes can purchase their ticket/receipt by the driver.  This would of course require more paid RTA ticket checkers, so it may not work out fiscally, but it is a possible way to rationalize fare collection system wide without capital improvements (assuming the new fare machines can spit out receipts).

^Yes, I think most of understand that the strangely non-uniform fare payment systems are a result of different line histories.

 

And no, you don't need to modify ANY stations to make rail transit vehicles paid fare zones.  There is no reason (other than start up costs) that the Green/Blue line can't be POP just like the HealthLine.  In fact, you don't even need station fare vending machines- as an interim step, you could operate like the HealthLine now, where those with passes can enter any door and those without passes can purchase their ticket/receipt by the driver.  This would of course require more paid RTA ticket checkers, so it may not work out fiscally, but it is a possible way to rationalize fare collection system wide without capital improvements (assuming the new fare machines can spit out receipts).

 

Thank you.

 

My question was really to counter shs96 settlers landing issue.  Our Light Rail system can only be POP outside of tower city and the larger stations I mentioned.

 

I wonder if RTA has budgeted in "ticket checkers" or "police" for expansion to the rail lines.

 

The smaller fare machines on the at grade platforms wont be intrusive in Shaker as they can be incorporated into the shelter.

I believe the Red Line is scheduled to go POP soon (probably when the new vending machines are figured out), so I imagine added ticket checking police are budgeted there.  Probably not for the Green/Blue line though, which I don't think is scheduled for POP, though the idea has been floated (based on availability of wireless vending machines that could process credit card payments).

Well to comment on the article posted above and leave the last few posts alone, I'm thinking one of the major reasons that RTA didn't see significant increases was that such a large portion of the people in the Greater Cleveland area were already using RTA.

 

I think there are a couple of factors influencing ridership, and current levels of ridership is one of them (5+ years of growth).  Other factors that may be at play:

- The system has been contracting over the past few years.  3% service cut here, 5% cut there.  A more meaningful number might be riders per service mile.  If RTA has cut 10% of service over the last 2 years and kept ridership constant or slightly decreasing (even after 2 fare increases and a fuel surcharge), it may be operating more efficiently but with slightly less riders.

- Special events.  Not just regular season games, but indians, browns and cavs playoff games.  We didn't have many of these in the past year.  Each of these events can add thousands of riders.

- Cleveland school enrollment.  Most CMSD students rely on RTA for transit.  If enrollment is declining, this could be thousands of fewer rides per month.

- Employment is moving to areas not served by transit.  Good luck getting TO Solon from downtown in the morning or other locations just outside cuyahoga county.

 

Whatever the reasons for the slight decline in ridership y-t-d, it would be good for RTA to have a stock paragraph explaining why the system isn't seeing increases as large as other systems.

I believe the Red Line is scheduled to go POP soon (probably when the new vending machines are figured out), so I imagine added ticket checking police are budgeted there. Probably not for the Green/Blue line though, which I don't think is scheduled for POP, though the idea has been floated (based on availability of wireless vending machines that could process credit card payments).

 

You are correct. Our first priority is to get the fare collection system working properly on the HealthLine. Then, our attention will turn to the Red Line, where the new POP system will probably be operational this spring. There will be a space on each platform that will be clearly marked. You must have POP on you tIf you are within that area on the platform, or on the Red Line rail car.

Why is Cleveland being the hub a problem? Has the RTA ever thought of using pay zones? 

 

1). The hub. Historically, RTA has done a good job of getting people from the suburbs to downtown, and then back again in the evening. That was the basic traffic pattern for thousands of commuters. In recent years, the work patterns are becoming more diverse, with people living in Westlake and working in Independence, for instance. Transit works best when large numbers of people share a common destination, and more and more, that is not happening in Cuyahoga County. We are working to address this.

 

2.). Zones. RTA used to have "local" and "express" service, but it was confusing for all concerned. Several years ago, in an effort to simplify fares, those two words were eliminated from the fare structure.

Jerry, I figured you'd want to take a crack at the people at Metro Networks (located in Independence or Valley View, I believe) for writing this awful headline, despite the fact that transit ridership in Greater Cleveland is the 17th largest in the U.S. (see: http://www.metro-region.org/files/planning/03a_2006_Annual-Transit-Trips.pdf). The headline appeared on all the Cox Communication home pages in Cleveland:

 

http://cleveland.cox.net/cci/newslocal/local?_mode=view&view=LocalNewsArticleView&articleId=3914807&_action=validatearticle

 

People In Cleveland Don't Use Public Transportation

 

12-09-2008 4:01 AM

 

(Cleveland, OH) -- Numbers for public transportation use have risen all across America, but not in Cleveland. National ridership numbers jumped six-point-five-percent from July to September, but in Cleveland the numbers were unchanged. The Greater Cleveland Transit Authority says they blame the low ridership on Cleveland's economy. They say when downtown jobs are lost, ridership goes down. They also say the numbers could dip even more, because the RTA just raised fares and eliminated routes.

In fact, you don't even need station fare vending machines- as an interim step, you could operate like the HealthLine now, where those with passes can enter any door and those without passes can purchase their ticket/receipt by the driver.

I doubt that the people riding the Blue/Green lines would consider this an acceptable interim step, as it would slow down those routes more than the current system does. (See comments on the Healthline thread.)  Otherwise I do agree that a POP system like what the Healthline is supposed to be would be great for the Blue and Green lines.

^Yeah, that's certainly true.  The current payment system may be counter-intuitive to the uninitiated, but it's definitely the speediest given the pattern of passenger flow.

"give me a break"... "I don't get paid"... "they know"... "I shouldn't have to point out"; I am very dismayed at the sentiment being echoed in many of the posts made here over the last few days.

 

Along these same lines, do you believe that CPP "just knows" about every streetlight that is out, or that the Fire Department and Water Department proactively are notified by someone <b><i>other than the public</i></b> about every open hydrant, or that the Streets Department continuously goes out LOOKING for potholes to fill? No, more often than not, responses to these deficiencies or problems in the systems they are responsible for are addressed by responding to complaints from the public.

 

You, the riding (and non-riding) public, as taxpayers, have made an INVESTMENT in RTA. Part of being a responsible investor is making certain that your investment is being used wisely. Every time you walk past a questionable circumstance and slough it off as "someone else's job" or "so obvious they MUST know about it", you CHOOSE to shirk that responsibility. Now, if problems get reported and don't get addressed, or if they are actively observed and ignored by Authority employees, then shame on us.

 

Just as many hands make for light work, many eyes make for greater visibility. Transit Police's "See Something? Say Something!" campaign need not be confined to safety & security-related concerns.

 

Along these lines, I'd like to make a request of those who routinely ride the Blue & Green Lines -- if you find yourself in car #826, please let me know if you hear any difference in the onboard loudspeaker system. A new amplifier has been installed in that car, and we're curious to get customer feedback about how it sounds in live use.

Thank You JeTDoG!

 

:clap:  :clap:  :clap:

 

 

As I said before, it is not that difficult to pick up the phone or shot off an email.  However, many people believe that complaining about service is easier than being apart of the change.

 

 

 

 

Thank you, as well. People have two choices: be part of the problem or part of the solution.

JMasek/JeTDoG,

 

Just letting you know that the new (as of November 9) online schedules for the Blue and Green Lines (67/67A) are reversed for Saturday Westbound.  I figured this out last Saturday when I was waiting to board a westbound Green Line train (the one that I thought left Green Rd. at 2:29 pm) and it was about 15 minutes "late" (later than I expected).  I boarded the train and decided to check the paper schedule and sure enough it said 2:45 was the actual departure time.  2:29 was the departure time for a Blue Line train from Warrensville/Van Aken on this paper schedule.  Thinking I must not be able to read the online schedules correctly, I checked again online when I got home.  There it says that 2:29 is the departure for a Green Line train from Green Rd., and 2:45 is the departure time for a Blue Line train from Warrensville/Van Aken.  The times are all correct from Shaker Square to Tower City.

Wow.  You actually check the schedule?  I never look at it.  Good catch.

JMasek/JeTDoG,

 

Just letting you know that the new (as of November 9) online schedules for the Blue and Green Lines (67/67A) are reversed for Saturday Westbound. I figured this out last Saturday when I was waiting to board a westbound Green Line train (the one that I thought left Green Rd. at 2:29 pm) and it was about 15 minutes "late" (later than I expected). I boarded the train and decided to check the paper schedule and sure enough it said 2:45 was the actual departure time. 2:29 was the departure time for a Blue Line train from Warrensville/Van Aken on this paper schedule. Thinking I must not be able to read the online schedules correctly, I checked again online when I got home. There it says that 2:29 is the departure for a Green Line train from Green Rd., and 2:45 is the departure time for a Blue Line train from Warrensville/Van Aken. The times are all correct from Shaker Square to Tower City.

 

fixed; column headings were inadvertently reversed -- thanks for catching this!

ahhh....the magic of urbanohio.

 

hats of to you jam40jeff

 

 

Some downtown businesses are closing early because of the water main break.

 

From 10 a.m.-noon, RTA will operate the following service to Park-N-Ride lots. Go to your normal pick-up locations.

 

#239, Euclid Park-N-Ride

 

#246, Westlake Park-N-Ride

 

#251, Strongsville Park-N-Ride

 

#263, North Olmsted Park-N-Ride

 

#451, Laurel Square Park-n-Ride

 

RTA will operate regular service the rest of the day, including normal PM rush-hour service to all Park-n-Ride lots.