January 31, 200916 yr My hunch is that even the new UC area stations, UC development and the new Juvie Hall (which you have to be pretty generous to call TOD) won't be enough to make the east side red line really need the added capacity three car trains would offer. I'm not a regular rider though- how crowded are east side rush hour Red Line trains these days?
January 31, 200916 yr My hunch is that even the new UC area stations, UC development and the new Juvie Hall (which you have to be pretty generous to call TOD) won't be enough to make the east side red line really need the added capacity three car trains would offer. I'm not a regular rider though- how crowded are east side rush hour Red Line trains these days? I ride from tower city to UC and UC to tower city during rush hours, and the trains aren't all that full. They are packed when they arrive at TC heading eastbound, but almost empty out completely. I'd also generally rather see more 2 car trains and shorter headways on the red line during rush hours - going to 5 minute headways in peak periods - rather than see 3 car trains, although decreased headways would probably require more labor. 3 car trains make sense for a couple of runs where there are lots of riders and should run for all special events. There seems to be a lot of slack in the current timing and cab signal system that keeps trains too far apart and too slow, imo. Perhaps this can be retimed, otherwise I'm not sure tower city could handle anymore trains during peak hours.
January 31, 200916 yr IIRC, the addition of the Shaker Trains on the TC - east 55 section, has made adding more trains an issue. On the westside they can program in more TC-BP trains. I wonder if timing, signals, crews and schedules can be tweaked? On the rare occasion I take the Red Line from UC westbound to the Airport, it's very early and the train seems pretty full. About ½ of the train deboard at TC, but then it fills with lots of airport workers and those heading out on the first bank of flights.
February 2, 200916 yr I am pleased to see that there is so much interest in three-car trains. I just had a chance to discuss the issue of three-car trains with RTA Rail Director Melvin Clark. Here's the Reader's Digest version of what he said: When the Inner Belt bridge closes (no date set), RTA expects demand for rail service to greatly increase, especially on the West Side, where some large Rapide Station parking lots have excess capacity. The plan under consideration would allow RTA to run three-car trains during rush hour only, on the center Red Line track at Tower City. The cars would serve stations from Tower City to Brookpark. In that stretch of rail, only the Brookpark station (which is interim), cannot support a three-car train. There are several operational methods to overcrome that, and choosing the one that makes the most sense is one of the challenges facing RTA. When RTA used the old Bluebird rail cars, there were three-car trains, but the current rail fleet uses much larger cars. (Estimates: Bluebird car, 50 feet. Current car, 75 feet). No timetable has been announced.
February 4, 200916 yr Wow, WTF happened on the redline westbound yesterday? When I got to the platform in Tower City, the train was absolutely mobbed with people, they were literally crammed onto each car like sardines and there were at least 100 more that were trying to get on. I really, really had to get home so I went up towards the front car and shoved myself on with my back barely inside the door. Everyone was literally nose to nose and they were not very happy. The driver, whose nameplate was absent (car 185, departed around 5:40pm), was SCREAMING at people on the platform and everyone was alternately horrified or laughing at her. "GET ON IF YOU'RE GETTING ON!" "GET AWAY FROM THE DOORS!" To some passengers standing near her on the platform she yelled, "WAIT FOR THE NEXT ONE!" and they replied "WHEN is that one coming?" "WHEN IT COMES," she yelled. From talking to the 5 people who I was practically making out with, it seemed everyone had been waiting and at least 2 trains were supposed to come that never showed up, possibly more. One guy said he got down to the platform at 10 after and there were no trains that whole time (departed at 5:40 like I said). She did appear to have some trouble with the doors closing at each stop, as she would open and close them several times before we could proceed. Of course, during the ride the riders started complaining about how gas prices have come down and why haven't the fares and I mentioned that RTA had locked into their fuel contract when prices were still going UP in an attempt to stablize costs. Then a few minutes later someone else near me started talking about how awful our system is compared to that of places like Chicago or Pennsylvania. I mentioned that it was too bad our taxpayers didn't want more state funding going to transit but instead it goes to roads and bridges, and though my figures were probably way, way off I explained that PA, for example, has something like $180M for transit each year whereas our govt only allocates something like $12M. I *know* that's wrong but I was talking off the top of my head and wanted to make a point. I did wish aloud that it would be nice if some of the stimulus package money would be devoted to transit and that we could get that money, and that this would be what would enable us to expand, but that I feared it would all go to roads and bridges and tunnels, because transit doesn't seem to be what the taxpayers want to fund. They probably thought I was some kind of RTA mole. But anyway, what happened? That driver seriously needed to take a chill pill, she was just nasty. JMasek, did you ever find out what happened? Today on the redline eastbound (car 193) the driver had the same door problem with opening and shutting like 5 or 6 times before we could leave each station, one time she had to come out of the cage and go back to another car and do something, don't know what, to get us going again.
February 4, 200916 yr JMasek, did you ever find out what happened? Today on the redline eastbound (car 193) the driver had the same door problem with opening and shutting like 5 or 6 times before we could leave each station, one time she had to come out of the cage and go back to another car and do something, don't know what, to get us going again. I've been on this car too, as the 2d car of a 2 car train. The door track is either blocked or there is a problem with the door sensor showing the door is closed and the train can't go.
February 5, 200916 yr I've moved conversation on the cedar hill rapid station to it's thread... http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,12801.0.html
February 7, 200916 yr http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/02/rta_gives_discounts_to_college.html RTA gives discounts to college students, but not all Posted by Karen Farkas/Plain Dealer Reporter February 07, 2009 07:25AM Categories: Real Time News CLEVELAND -- For $25 a semester, every Cleveland State University student is entitled to unlimited rides on an RTA bus or rapid. ...... I am stunned by this. Also, and sorry if I offend the politically correct sensibilities of some, but Tri C students are generally the ones who can least afford it. This is terrible.
February 7, 200916 yr http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/02/rta_gives_discounts_to_college.html RTA gives discounts to college students, but not all Posted by Karen Farkas/Plain Dealer Reporter February 07, 2009 07:25AM Categories: Real Time News CLEVELAND -- For $25 a semester, every Cleveland State University student is entitled to unlimited rides on an RTA bus or rapid. ...... I am stunned by this. Also, and sorry if I offend the politically correct sensibilities of some, but Tri C students are generally the ones who can least afford it. This is terrible. Polyester, er Palijandro, I agree. However, for once, it appear the Plain Dealer laid out the whole story. Looks as the vote of the joint student council part of the problem. Hopefully they can work out individual contracts for each campus.
February 7, 200916 yr Author Then tell Tri-C to subsidize it (or better still, use pass-through higher-education funds from the state since the state so badly short-changes transit through its direct transit funding program). If RTA loses the revenue from extending the discount to Tri-C students, who bus routes should be cut first? This is the situation our state has put us in -- getting mad at people who don't deserve it. RTA would love to provide the service they did before Gov. Taft and the Ohio General Assembly cut funding for public transit by more than 60 percent. And while all Ohio transit agencies fight for scraps from a meager $16 million pot of state funds, states surrounding Ohio (Pennsylvania, New York, Michigan, Illinois) each spend HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS on transit each year. Rochester, NY gets more transit funding from New York than Ohio provides to all 60+ transit agencies in Ohio. Doesn't that bother you?? It should because you're going to see a lot worse than the service cuts and fare hikes RTA made last if this economy continues to eat away at the county sales tax which RTA has to depend on. Many people will lose their jobs for the simple reason that they can't get to them anymore as is happening in St. Louis and elsewhere. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 7, 200916 yr ^Agreed. It is crazy to even allow those branches in the discussion. I think that could be a case by case decision. I'm sure for procurement/purchasing and various legal/contractual reasons, having all three student councils at the table gives tri-C better and broader negotiating power.
February 7, 200916 yr Then tell Tri-C to subsidize it (or better still, use pass-through higher-education funds from the state since the state so badly short-changes transit through its direct transit funding program). If RTA loses the revenue from extending the discount to Tri-C students, who bus routes should be cut first? This is the situation our state has put us in -- getting mad at people who don't deserve it. RTA would love to provide the service they did before Gov. Taft and the Ohio General Assembly cut funding for public transit by more than 60 percent. And while all Ohio transit agencies fight for scraps from a meager $16 million pot of state funds, states surrounding Ohio (Pennsylvania, New York, Michigan, Illinois) each spend HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS on transit each year. Rochester, NY gets more transit funding from New York than Ohio provides to all 60+ transit agencies in Ohio. Doesn't that bother you?? It should because you're going to see a lot worse than the service cuts and fare hikes RTA made last if this economy continues to eat away at the county sales tax which RTA has to depend on. Many people will lose their jobs for the simple reason that they can't get to them anymore as is happening in St. Louis and elsewhere. Reverend KJP, you're preaching to the choir. We feel your pain and totally understand! :wink:
February 7, 200916 yr ^Yes, it does make me mad. But if you charge EVERY student at CCC a discounted monthly pass, I would bet that the overall sum would be greater than there is now. I'm not saying to offer the same deal that CSU/CASE kids get, but offer something.
February 7, 200916 yr ^Yes, it does make me mad. But if you charge EVERY student at CCC a discounted monthly pass, I would bet that the overall sum would be greater than there is now. I'm not saying to offer the same deal that CSU/CASE kids get, but offer something. I say negotiate something. However, we're both trying to say to TRI-C, work out something! LOL
February 7, 200916 yr ^I was referring to KJP's point. Regardless, siamo in d'accordo. well use the damn quotes already!
February 7, 200916 yr Author You mean: aye, aye Captain. Aye, means "yes." Eye = "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 7, 200916 yr ^Ah the pitfalls of being lazy. I thought it did not seem right. All those polyester fibers are starting to affect you. LOL
February 9, 200916 yr So, the Up escalator is broken AGAIN at Tower City. The one off to the side was broken last week, so being 6 months pregnant, when I came through the gate and saw it was broken again I was disheartened, but now the one at the side has opened back up. What gives? Also, what is with the big caution tape over the one set of double doors leading out to the redline eastbound/windermere? That has been taped/blocked off for quite awhile now.
February 9, 200916 yr ^Yes, it does make me mad. But if you charge EVERY student at CCC a discounted monthly pass, I would bet that the overall sum would be greater than there is now. I'm not saying to offer the same deal that CSU/CASE kids get, but offer something. That is why I pay $75/semester instead of $25 as a Case graduate student. The graduate student senate took a vote and it was rejected because too many people didn't want it to be mandatory. Thus, the $75/semester optional pass was born last semester. Perhaps Tri-C can work something like this out.
February 12, 200916 yr I am pleased to see that there is so much interest in three-car trains. I just had a chance to discuss the issue of three-car trains with RTA Rail Director Melvin Clark. Here's the Reader's Digest version of what he said: When the Inner Belt bridge closes (no date set), RTA expects demand for rail service to greatly increase, especially on the West Side, where some large Rapide Station parking lots have excess capacity. The plan under consideration would allow RTA to run three-car trains during rush hour only, on the center Red Line track at Tower City. The cars would serve stations from Tower City to Brookpark. In that stretch of rail, only the Brookpark station (which is interim), cannot support a three-car train. There are several operational methods to overcrome that, and choosing the one that makes the most sense is one of the challenges facing RTA. When RTA used the old Bluebird rail cars, there were three-car trains, but the current rail fleet uses much larger cars. (Estimates: Bluebird car, 50 feet. Current car, 75 feet). No timetable has been announced. This is a forward-looking decision by RTA. Now, let's see how the local media, esp the PD, advise commuters in terms of alternatives. The PD flopped during the year long closure of the Detroit-Superior Bridge a few years ago in rarely, if ever, touting a transit alternative. Now, when the gigantic, busy Inner Belt bridge closes, will the PD once again only feed its readers alternative auto routes and not tout the handy Red Line? RTA really needs to work with the PD to keep that from happening. I have no doubt Jerry will be on the job. But will our only major newspaper bow to auto interests as it is oft want to do?
February 12, 200916 yr I haven't ridden it for a while, but from what I'm hearing, three-car trains is the only way the western red line can handle any more road closings. The trains are crazy full already, even if the parking lots aren't quite at capacty.
February 12, 200916 yr FWIW, I am travelling to the airport this evening during rush hour and specifically avoiding the train due to capacity issues. I'll be travelling for 2 weeks and have more bags than normal and am not willing to fight the crowd with my luggage. If it was the middle of the day, I wouldn't care, but it's hard enough during peak hours by yourself, let alone with an oversized suitcase and a folding bag.
February 12, 200916 yr FWIW, I am travelling to the airport this evening during rush hour and specifically avoiding the train due to capacity issues. I'll be travelling for 2 weeks and have more bags than normal and am not willing to fight the crowd with my luggage. If it was the middle of the day, I wouldn't care, but it's hard enough during peak hours by yourself, let alone with an oversized suitcase and a folding bag. wooooh, I'm so glad I never have luggage. I think sitting in the first car might help.
February 12, 200916 yr ^I have a suggestion. Just opposite the operator's seat (front right if you are a passenger), there are two large luggage racks that you can use, and you stand right beside them. Also, in some rail cars, seats nearby have been removed (the two seats that face each other). If you sit or stand there, there is ample room for luggage, and the aisle is still open. That is our main concern. I hope that helps. Have a safe trip.
February 12, 200916 yr You absolutely cannot get to the luggage racks if you are boarding anywhere between 5 and almost 6pm on the redline westbound. I am quite visibly pregnant and could barely sandwich myself in again the other night, let alone having pick of where to stand, (let alone sit). Nobody cares if you are old, pregnant, have a stroller, are on crutches or have luggage, when the train finally pulls up everyone pushes on like frantic brides going into the Filene's bridal gown sale.
February 12, 200916 yr You absolutely cannot get to the luggage racks if you are boarding anywhere between 5 and almost 6pm on the redline westbound. I am quite visibly pregnant and could barely sandwich myself in again the other night, let alone having pick of where to stand, (let alone sit). Nobody cares if you are old, pregnant, have a stroller, are on crutches or have luggage, when the train finally pulls up everyone pushes on like frantic brides going into the Filene's bridal gown sale. Thank goodness I'm going against traffic.
February 12, 200916 yr Author Big news on the stimulus! Read about it at: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,14971.0.html "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 17, 200916 yr So, the Up escalator is broken AGAIN at Tower City. The one off to the side was broken last week, so being 6 months pregnant, when I came through the gate and saw it was broken again I was disheartened, but now the one at the side has opened back up. What gives? Also, what is with the big caution tape over the one set of double doors leading out to the redline eastbound/windermere? That has been taped/blocked off for quite awhile now. Over a week later, up-escalator still broken.
February 17, 200916 yr I don't use the trains as often as I did a couple years back, but it seemed like the TC escalators were undergoing major repairs about half the time. These things can't be more than 20 years old, right? Or did the escalators predate the TC renovation?
February 17, 200916 yr It's true, and it's almost always the Up escalator. How did they install escalators whose direction cannot be reversed? Every mall i've ever been to, if the Up is broken, they put the Down into reverse use. Much better to have a down escalator broken than the Up.
February 17, 200916 yr Author I don't use the trains as often as I did a couple years back, but it seemed like the TC escalators were undergoing major repairs about half the time. These things can't be more than 20 years old, right? Or did the escalators predate the TC renovation? All of the escalators coming up out of the RTA station were built new for the 1990 Tower City project. I have photos I took of that area under construction in about 1989. I'm not sure where they are but I do remember they didn't come out very well. But just about everything in the atrium between the walls (behind which are the stores) is new -- most floors/levels, some columns and all of the stairs, escalators and elevators. WKYC did an hour-long show on the Tower City renovation and the history of Terminal Tower. I have it on video. We should do an UrbanOhio video night sometime! "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
February 18, 200916 yr It's true, and it's almost always the Up escalator. How did they install escalators whose direction cannot be reversed? Every mall i've ever been to, if the Up is broken, they put the Down into reverse use. Much better to have a down escalator broken than the Up. Good point. Maybe someone should put this Q to an FCE official.
February 18, 200916 yr http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/02/rta_has_already_budgeted_its_4.html RTA has already budgeted its $42 million stimulus money Posted by Karen Farkas/Plain Dealer Reporter February 18, 2009 06:00AM RTA plans to use its $42 million in stimulus money to replace aging railcars and two rail stations. RTA knows how much federal stimulus money it is getting and has plans for almost every cent of its $42 million. .....
February 18, 200916 yr While these are good projects and necessary, I'm still disappointed there won't be enough to extend the waterfront line or the blue line.
February 18, 200916 yr Umm .. we all would like that. But that would take hundreds of millions of dollars. So .. I'm wondering what is the second rail station up for renovation with these funds? It mentions the E 55th street station, and the East Side transit center .. but the beginning of the article mentions there are two rail stations that are going to be replaced/renovated with these funds. The rest of the article makes no mention of a specific second rail station.
February 18, 200916 yr I thought they meant Cedar and Mayfield as the two new stations. Sure a rail expansion would cost a lot, and it may not be shovel ready, but I'd like to know if it was even mentioned to Joe Biden or Pelosi or the new transportation guy or anyone. Ohio didn't get its fair share of rail money under Bush because our metros weren't growing. We could use some make-up cash.
February 18, 200916 yr These RTA projects are "shovel ready." Expanding the rail line involves long studies and land acquisition. It's a long-range project.
February 18, 200916 yr I'm actually really excited about the station renovations. While I, too, would love to see rail expansion, the station renovations are just as important in terms of making the system more attractive to riders. I have to say that I'm generally pretty impressed with the design of the new stations. RTA's new stations are definitely nicer than most transit systems that I've seen in this country. I'm excited about the higher standards that RTA is generally aiming for (I can't say this for everything, but overall, it seems pretty cool).
February 18, 200916 yr I second the notion about wanting further expansion. I would have thought the plans were already there and that the money was the missing element. Although I agree that transfer of the E.120 station is important, I am not sure how important the makeover of the Cedar Hill station is (not talking aesthetics).
February 18, 200916 yr the puritas rendering looks pretty impressive. also i think the 117th station could sorely use a parking deck. The lot is at capacity almost every day. I'm sure this dissuades alot of potential riders.
February 18, 200916 yr well, either you stick with the status quo and hope the masses will walk or ride their bike (which in large part wont happen)to the station. Or you can accomodate the mindset of the majority and give them more parking. Maybe you just want them to tear down another building for a surface lot. :wink: Either way there isnt much growth potential for this station in its current situation. And it serves a pretty dense area.
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