It is absolutely absurd that Ohio doesn't show greater support for local mass transit, especially at a time when demand for transit is up and it is most needed.  The following story from the Plain Dealer is a good illustration...

 

RTA needs $9 million to avoid cutting routes, layoffs

Posted by Karen Farkas/Plain Dealer Reporter March 25, 2009 06:33AM

 

RTA may cut routes by 12 percent and lay off hundreds of employees on July 1 unless the agency can find $9 million to offset staggering declines in sales tax revenues, officials said Tuesday.

 

.....

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/03/rta_needs_9_million_to_avoid_c.html

There are a variety of local funding options available to RTA's in Ohio. At a time of great demand, why aren't local taxpayers supporting these services?

There are a variety of local funding options available to RTA's in Ohio. At a time of great demand, why aren't local taxpayers supporting these services?

 

There are?  Please enlighten us.

 

ETA:  This is a serious question.

There are a variety of local funding options available to RTA's in Ohio. At a time of great demand, why aren't local taxpayers supporting these services?

Like what? If you have some good ideas on how to raise money for RTA, we'd all love to hear them. (This last statement was not intended to sound sarcastic. I'm genuinly interested in your opinion)

There are a variety of local funding options available to RTA's in Ohio. At a time of great demand, why aren't local taxpayers supporting these services?

Like what? If you have some good ideas on how to raise money for RTA, we'd all love to hear them. (This last statement was not intended to sound sarcastic. I'm genuinly interested in your opinion)

 

As am I

Sorry, I was referring to the taxation authority of Ohio's transit entities. As state policy, Ohio tends to defer the provision of services to local governments (like roads, human services, etc.) and transit agencies are similar. So RTA's have the significant authority to levy taxes on the population base that use their transit services.

Sorry, I was referring to the taxation authority of Ohio's transit entities. As state policy, Ohio tends to defer the provision of services to local governments (like roads, human services, etc.) and transit agencies are similar. So RTA's have the significant authority to levy taxes on the population base that use their transit services.

 

That is what the Greater Cleveland RTA is currently doing or am I missing something?

I think any fixes need to come from the state or federal levels at this point, probably a mix of both.  The M.T.A. board in NYC just voted today to raise fares and cut service, this is a widespread problem, not one limited to Cleveland or even Ohio.

Jerry

Dont know who to send this to so ill post it here. I usually take the 39 bus from lake/cuyahoga county border downtown for class on monday, wednesday, and fridays. The 39 bus leaving Shoregate at 9:48 a.m. never came this morning. I was at the bus stop at 9:45 this morning, and every other day it usually picks me up between 9:50 and 9:55. The only route on lakeshore that passes my house is the 39. At around 9:55 a route 38 bus with Superior and E 156 (i think) passed me and never slowed down, the driver was shaking his head no signalling to me by pointing his thumb backwards that the 39 would be right behind him, or thats what i thought. Well i waited for another 15 minutes until the 39 passed me heading east on lakeshore going to shoregate. At this this time i was already late for class and decided i would just drive. I left my girlfriend at the stop at 10:20 while i walked back to my house so she could check to make sure that the bus came back again. She said it did but there was no ticker or announcement on the front of what route it was. I thought that was strange and decided to drive down lakeshore before getting on the highway at E 185. I noticed that all the other people who get picked up along the route were still standing at their bus stops and i hadnt passed a bus yet. My guess is that it just got on the highway at Lloyd Road and never travelled down lakeshore. Any idea as to what happened here as to why 2 busses left shoregate but neither of them with the #39 route?? 

Jerry

Dont know who to send this to so ill post it here. I usually take the 39 bus from lake/cuyahoga county border downtown for class on monday, wednesday, and fridays. The 39 bus leaving Shoregate at 9:48 a.m. never came this morning. I was at the bus stop at 9:45 this morning, and every other day it usually picks me up between 9:50 and 9:55. The only route on lakeshore that passes my house is the 39. At around 9:55 a route 38 bus with Superior and E 156 (i think) passed me and never slowed down, the driver was shaking his head no signalling to me by pointing his thumb backwards that the 39 would be right behind him, or thats what i thought. Well i waited for another 15 minutes until the 39 passed me heading east on lakeshore going to shoregate. At this this time i was already late for class and decided i would just drive. I left my girlfriend at the stop at 10:20 while i walked back to my house so she could check to make sure that the bus came back again. She said it did but there was no ticker or announcement on the front of what route it was. I thought that was strange and decided to drive down lakeshore before getting on the highway at E 185. I noticed that all the other people who get picked up along the route were still standing at their bus stops and i hadnt passed a bus yet. My guess is that it just got on the highway at Lloyd Road and never travelled down lakeshore. Any idea as to what happened here as to why 2 busses left shoregate but neither of them with the #39 route?? 

 

I love me some internet.  ;)  http://www.gcrta.org/cs_contact.asp

Jerry

Dont know who to send this to so ill post it here. I usually take the 39 bus from lake/cuyahoga county border downtown for class on monday, wednesday, and fridays. The 39 bus leaving Shoregate at 9:48 a.m. never came this morning. I was at the bus stop at 9:45 this morning, and every other day it usually picks me up between 9:50 and 9:55. The only route on lakeshore that passes my house is the 39. At around 9:55 a route 38 bus with Superior and E 156 (i think) passed me and never slowed down, the driver was shaking his head no signalling to me by pointing his thumb backwards that the 39 would be right behind him, or thats what i thought. Well i waited for another 15 minutes until the 39 passed me heading east on lakeshore going to shoregate. At this this time i was already late for class and decided i would just drive. I left my girlfriend at the stop at 10:20 while i walked back to my house so she could check to make sure that the bus came back again. She said it did but there was no ticker or announcement on the front of what route it was. I thought that was strange and decided to drive down lakeshore before getting on the highway at E 185. I noticed that all the other people who get picked up along the route were still standing at their bus stops and i hadnt passed a bus yet. My guess is that it just got on the highway at Lloyd Road and never travelled down lakeshore. Any idea as to what happened here as to why 2 busses left shoregate but neither of them with the #39 route?? 

 

I love me some internet.  ;)  http://www.gcrta.org/cs_contact.asp

 

Your still my biggest pet peeve  :lol:  :laugh:

 

Jerry

Dont know who to send this to so ill post it here. I usually take the 39 bus from lake/cuyahoga county border downtown for class on monday, wednesday, and fridays. The 39 bus leaving Shoregate at 9:48 a.m. never came this morning. I was at the bus stop at 9:45 this morning, and every other day it usually picks me up between 9:50 and 9:55. The only route on lakeshore that passes my house is the 39. At around 9:55 a route 38 bus with Superior and E 156 (i think) passed me and never slowed down, the driver was shaking his head no signalling to me by pointing his thumb backwards that the 39 would be right behind him, or thats what i thought. Well i waited for another 15 minutes until the 39 passed me heading east on lakeshore going to shoregate. At this this time i was already late for class and decided i would just drive. I left my girlfriend at the stop at 10:20 while i walked back to my house so she could check to make sure that the bus came back again. She said it did but there was no ticker or announcement on the front of what route it was. I thought that was strange and decided to drive down lakeshore before getting on the highway at E 185. I noticed that all the other people who get picked up along the route were still standing at their bus stops and i hadnt passed a bus yet. My guess is that it just got on the highway at Lloyd Road and never travelled down lakeshore. Any idea as to what happened here as to why 2 busses left shoregate but neither of them with the #39 route?? 

 

I love me some internet.  ;)  http://www.gcrta.org/cs_contact.asp

 

Your still my biggest pet peeve  :D :laugh:

 

See, that attitude of yours is why the bus passed your by this morning Mr. Man!  :P  :P

Jerry

Dont know who to send this to so ill post it here. 

 

I love me some internet.  ;)  http://www.gcrta.org/cs_contact.asp

 

Your still my biggest pet peeve  :D :laugh:

 

See, that attitude of yours is why the bus passed your by this morning Mr. Man!  :P  :P

 

I blamed the girlfriend since it was the first time she ever took/tried to take the bus with me downtown  :evil:

Jerry

Dont know who to send this to so ill post it here. 

 

I love me some internet.  ;)  http://www.gcrta.org/cs_contact.asp

 

Your still my biggest pet peeve  :D :laugh:

 

See, that attitude of yours is why the bus passed your by this morning Mr. Man!  :P  :P

 

I blamed the girlfriend since it was the first time she ever took/tried to take the bus with me downtown  >:D

 

Lawd!  What kind of boyfriend are you?!  You know I'm sending this post to her!

Jerry

Dont know who to send this to so ill post it here.  

 

I love me some internet. ;) http://www.gcrta.org/cs_contact.asp

 

Your still my biggest pet peeve :D :laugh:

 

See, that attitude of yours is why the bus passed your by this morning Mr. Man! :P   :P

 

I blamed the girlfriend since it was the first time she ever took/tried to take the bus with me downtown   >:D

 

Lawd! What kind of boyfriend are you?! You know I'm sending this post to her!

 

Looks like im about to be the "ex" boyfriend once she sees that

Jerry,

 

a couple concerns:

 

1) the Rapid tracks in general are becoming an open sewer eyesore.  This is especially true in the trench/open cut along Shaker Blvd, where there's more rubbish than I've ever seen -- including where some fools even threw a couch in the trench just west of the MLK blvd bridge.  The Airport route is pretty ugly, too... What's RTA's timetable for cleaning up this mess before we have Rat-pit Transit.

 

2) Some time ago you mentioned you'd pass on to your engineering dept the status of expanding the E. 105 station in light of the huge Juvenile Justice Ctr nearing completion nearby that threatens to overrun the current truncated, 1-car boarding set up now.  Any word?

 

3) I really like the idea of GPS recorded station calls which is being implemented on the Red Line.  But could RTA pulleeze rerecord the actual voice?  It's stilted, unnatural and frankly nervewracking.  The faux woman's voice sounds like one of a robot voice from one of those black 'n white, sci-fi flicks from the 50s.  Just awful.

 

4) Hopkins Airport has new touch screen info boards in several key locations, including by the main info booth by baggage claim.  Much to my chagrin, I notice the "Transportation" touch screen makes no mention of the nation's oldest airport rail line: the Red Line Rapid.  How can this be?  Only limos, taxis and shuttle vans are mentioned... and to add insult to injury, the image next to the touch screen button is a taxi and a bus.  Even if RTA doesn't control this, you can bet for darn sure they can influence Hopkins.  This is shameful.  I noticed it last week coming into town. Along these lines, friends and biz visitors still tell me they either didn't know of or can't find the Rapid station at Hopkins due to poor signage.

 

5) I love the large, rolling signs with the "Next 3 trains" at major rail stations like Tower City.  It's unique and very convenient.  One annoyance is the ads.  I understand there need to be there to help pay for service, but is there a way to reprogram the signs so the ads to interrupt the train times; ie, if the train times could continue as a crawl under the ads?

 

re: the voice - I noticed that they started these announcements again, but simply speeded up the recording to try to address how slow and stilted they were before.  The recordings don't sound any better, just slightly faster.

Yeah, I'm wondering about those automated announcements, too.  They sound REALLY bad... it would almost be better without them.

 

The stops never change, so why isn't it a normal human voice simply recorded and then played back every time the train makes a stop?  They do that in Chicago.

 

I'm not sure why it has to be some strange computer woman voice... even when she says "RTA" it sounds really choppy and bad... yuck.

Sitting at home at 10pm on a Saturday, reading comments on Urban Ohio. Such is life...

 

1. I have no personal knowledge of what happened to your bus, but I will check. With GPS, there is a record of which bus is where at all times. I apologize. Please send me your direct e-mail off-line, and I will ask someone to contact you personally with an answer.

 

2. I ride the Red Line and the trolley, so I too, have heard the recordings. I believe this is a work in progress. I will check.

 

3. Trash on the tracks. There are several issues here. What exactly is RTA property? In many places, the eyesores you speak of are on land owned by other railroads, which share the right-of-way with us. Money is always an issue. The trash was placed there illegally. We could spend a gazillion dollars on a massive cleanup (robbing revenue from our service budget) and in a few weeks, you would never know we were there. Even if we have a sea of volunteers, there has to be significant RTA supervision, as you are dealing with live train tracks, and pedestrian safety is a must...ZERO room for errors. With all that said, RTA usually has a spring cleanup. Again, I will check.

 

4. I have no news on your other comments and questions, but I promise to add them to my list of things to check on, which I will handle as soon as reporters quit calling me. It has been a busy, busy  week for Media Relations.

Thanks Jerry,

 

on the job as always.

You're a good man, Jerry.

I noticed this weekend that the busses are making a beeping noise when turning left now.  Is this due to the accident on public square?  And if so are you kidding me, this is amazingly annoying.  I live on a corner of the street where these busses turn left, and this morning I was literally woken up ten times.  Is this a permanent thing?  Do i need to invest in ear plugs or what?  Sorry for the moan, but I'm a little sleep deprived, thanks to the busses. 

3. Trash on the tracks. There are several issues here. What exactly is RTA property? In many places, the eyesores you speak of are on land owned by other railroads, which share the right-of-way with us. Money is always an issue. The trash was placed there illegally. We could spend a gazillion dollars on a massive cleanup (robbing revenue from our service budget) and in a few weeks, you would never know we were there. Even if we have a sea of volunteers, there has to be significant RTA supervision, as you are dealing with live train tracks, and pedestrian safety is a must...ZERO room for errors. With all that said, RTA usually has a spring cleanup. Again, I will check.

 

 

That's one of the benefits of having Court Community Services. I have seen them out along the Rapid tracks, but way more often along our highways. Perhaps if we put some heat on Court Community Services to direct more of their activities along the rail lines, it might be able to keep ahead of all the trash and garbage.

3. Trash on the tracks. There are several issues here. What exactly is RTA property? In many places, the eyesores you speak of are on land owned by other railroads, which share the right-of-way with us. Money is always an issue. The trash was placed there illegally. We could spend a gazillion dollars on a massive cleanup (robbing revenue from our service budget) and in a few weeks, you would never know we were there. Even if we have a sea of volunteers, there has to be significant RTA supervision, as you are dealing with live train tracks, and pedestrian safety is a must...ZERO room for errors. With all that said, RTA usually has a spring cleanup. Again, I will check.

 

 

That's one of the benefits of having Court Community Services. I have seen them out along the Rapid tracks, but way more often along our highways. Perhaps if we put some heat on Court Community Services to direct more of their activities along the rail lines, it might be able to keep ahead of all the trash and garbage.

 

I suggested that earlier.  If RTA can close down for track repair, they can certainly single track in certain area's for cleanup.

Everything written so far has already been considered, but thanks for the suggestions.

Ok, let me begin by saying that I don't know of ANY public transportation system in the country that has ever resorted to outfitting their buses with alarms whenever the blinker is activated to avoid pedestrian collisions.

 

I was walking through Public Square during lunch and found myself lost in a sea of bus "alarm noises."  I didn't know which bus was sounding which alarm.  They all had their blinkers on and all were emitting noises.  I wouldn't have known if the bus was behind me, in front of me, beside me or on top of me!

 

I can only assume that RTA is doing this as a gesture of response against a wave of media criticism regarding the pedestrian death a week ago.  But, in reality, rehiring the female bus driver who had previously mowed down a pedestrian was the actual cause of the accident.  Of course, I can naturally predict RTA's justification to this new "bus alarm policy," but I think there needs to be some kind of evidence that this has worked elsewhere in the country.  Personally, hiring and training competent bus drivers who are fully aware of their surroundings 100% of the time (even jaywalking pedestrians) should be the first and most important step towards safety.

 

All one will hear downtown now are bus alarm noises.  How long before they become "white noise" and lose their effectiveness as much as a fire alarm that goes off in a building everyday.  Soon enough, you ignore it!

Ok, let me begin by saying that I don't know of ANY public transportation system in the country that has ever resorted to outfitting their buses with alarms whenever the blinker is activated to avoid pedestrian collisions.

 

I was walking through Public Square during lunch and found myself lost in a sea of bus "alarm noises." I didn't know which bus was sounding which alarm. They all had their blinkers on and all were emitting noises. I wouldn't have known if the bus was behind me, in front of me, beside me or on top of me!

 

I can only assume that RTA is doing this as a gesture of response against a wave of media criticism regarding the pedestrian death a week ago. But, in reality, rehiring the female bus driver who had previously mowed down a pedestrian was the actual cause of the accident. Of course, I can naturally predict RTA's justification to this new "bus alarm policy," but I think there needs to be some kind of evidence that this has worked elsewhere in the country. Personally, hiring and training competent bus drivers who are fully aware of their surroundings 100% of the time (even jaywalking pedestrians) should be the first and most important step towards safety.

 

All one will hear downtown now are bus alarm noises. How long before they become "white noise" and lose their effectiveness as much as a fire alarm that goes off in a building everyday. Soon enough, you ignore it!

 

Agreed.  I'm surprised they would even try this.  Jaywalking is a big problem here, and without knowing many details of this accident I have a hard time blaming RTA or the driver.  I see people almost get run over on a daily basis, yet I can't think of an instance when the bus would have truly been at fault.

I just don't know why someone at RTA thought this would be effective long term.  It's almost like they're saying, "Look, everyone, we're doing something!" in response to the accident.  But pedestrians are going to run across the street and bus drivers are going to be distracted... it just comes with the territory.  Making every bus beep when the blinker comes on just seems laughable to me -- especially when they're ALL doing it in Public Square.

I just don't know why someone at RTA thought this would be effective long term.  It's almost like they're saying, "Look, everyone, we're doing something!" in response to the accident.  But pedestrians are going to run across the street and bus drivers are going to be distracted... it just comes with the territory.  Making every bus beep when the blinker comes on just seems laughable to me -- especially when they're ALL doing it in Public Square.

 

Then why not ask what our friend RTA forumers about this situation instead of assuming?  :?

i think that is the point of him making the comment. JMasek?

i think that is the point of him making the comment. JMasek?

 

Yeah, I get that, but was the "extra" necessary before an answer from RTA?

 

I know b!tching and moaning is easier, but damn, just damn.*

 

 

_{* See how "extra" isn't always necesary?  ;)}

As part of an on-going effort to ensure safety, RTA has equipped 283 of its 550 buses with a device that activates a beeping noise whenever the bus turns right or left.

 

Many pedestrians heard the beeping noise for the first time today (Monday, March 30).

 

The effort is a part of a multi-faceted pilot project that RTA staff has been working on for several months.

 

RTA plans to equip the entire fleet.

 

Bus operators have also been instructed to sound their horns as they turn at an intersection.

 

I suggested that earlier.  If RTA can close down for track repair, they can certainly single track in certain area's for cleanup.

 

They don't need to single track for clean up. But they do need to have flaggers.

Thanks for the update.  I would love to have been in the meeting where they came up with this.

Thanks for the update.  I would love to have been in the meeting where they came up with this.

 

Oh Lawd.  Knowing you, you probably would have pulled out a magic wand and broken into a rant on the state of downtown retail!

^ I realize that many of you have your own opinions about our safety measures. I will not be drawn into a debate. JetDog has a major project and may not be on much this week. I also have a very full plate. My goal is to drop by, perhaps once in the evening, and cleanup any questions you may have left for me. Have a great evening.

^ I realize that many of you have your own opinions about our safety measures. I will not be drawn into a debate. JetDog has a major project and may not be on much this week. I also have a very full plate. My goal is to drop by, perhaps once in the evening, and cleanup any questions you may have left for me. Have a great evening.

 

Was this ever communicated in any of the riders bulletins, emails or media?  I don't recall seeing this anywhere.

As was said earlier these beeping devices are a waste of money.  My girlfriend got home today and said "What the hell was wrong with the buses today?!?!"  She was actually quote annoyed with the beeping noise while walking home.  When I told her the beeping was to warn pedestrians that a bus is turning she said "Why would they need to do that... that doesn't make any sense."  I agree with her.

 

As Jerry said, it's just a pilot project so we'll see what happens.

I find it stunning that all of our city buses will now be equipped with this incessant, annoying alarm whenever the blinkers are activated.  That's all I heard downtown today.  I didn't know which alarm was coming from which bus.

 

Who in their right mind came up with this?

Jerry is also not very clear on this.  It doesn't start beeping simply if the bus TURNS right or left, but actually starts if the driver activates his/her blinker -- even if the bus changes lanes or merges with traffic.

 

Amazing.  This won't last... dear lord, let's hope not.

Jerry is also not very clear on this.  It doesn't start beeping simply if the bus TURNS right or left, but actually starts if the driver activates his/her blinker -- even if the bus changes lanes or merges with traffic.

 

Amazing.  This won't last... dear lord, let's hope not.

 

i'm not sure this is the solution, but i certainly give rta credit for innovating around safety measures. 

 

rta piloted a rail safety program last year that gave advance warnings to crews working in the rail right of way - this has now become a product available nationally, thanks to the work of rta.

 

it seems that rta has identified an area of risk, whether better training of drivers or if getting pedestrians to pay more attention, would "solve" this problem.  if it works, more credit to rta - this is what innovation looks like and a first rate transit agency should be trying.  if it doesn't work, then it was what it was - a pilot attempting to eliminate bus-pedestrian accidents.

 

i'd rather celebrate this out of the box thinking than shoot it down from the start.  imo, we need more innovative pilots - successful or not - from all sectors in northeast ohio.

^Very good point.  I do appreciate RTA's out of the box thinking.

i'm not sure this is the solution, but i certainly give rta credit for innovating around safety measures.

 

rta piloted a rail safety program last year that gave advance warnings to crews working in the rail right of way - this has now become a product available nationally, thanks to the work of rta.

 

it seems that rta has identified an area of risk, whether better training of drivers or if getting pedestrians to pay more attention, would "solve" this problem. if it works, more credit to rta - this is what innovation looks like and a first rate transit agency should be trying. if it doesn't work, then it was what it was - a pilot attempting to eliminate bus-pedestrian accidents.

 

i'd rather celebrate this out of the box thinking than shoot it down from the start. imo, we need more innovative pilots - successful or not - from all sectors in northeast ohio.

 

I agree. I haven't heard this noise myself, but I think it's great that RTA is being innovative and is at least trying something new. We need new ideas and fresh thinking to be able to move forward .. even if those ideas prove to not work in the end. But to shoot it down before it's even given a chance is being unnecessarily negative to change just to be negative, in my opinion.

 

(Obviously, I reiterate that I myself haven't heard the sound, so I have no opinion on the sound itself. That could sway my statement one way or the other.)

This beeping buses thing wasn't in any Rider's Alerts or literature on the website simply because -- RTA JUST CAME UP WITH IT!

 

Jerry said this is some kind of pilot project that was in the works for a while.  Uh huh! I guess it's just coincidence that a pedestrian was mowed down in Public Square last week while you were working on the "beeping buses" project.  Too bad you guys hadn't finished the project a week ahead of time, I guess it could have saved the man's life.

 

RTA's brilliant idea of equipping all buses with "beeping noises" is a knee jerk reaction to their failure to control the justifiable media outrage over the pedestrian death in Public Square.

Comments from UrbanOhio (in this thread) were quoted in this article:

 

That beeping and honking you hear is coming from RTA buses that are turning

Posted by Karen Farkas/Plain Dealer Reporter March 31, 2009 09:00AM

Categories: Real Time News

 

CLEVELAND — RTA buses will beep and honk every time they turn at an intersection as part of the agency's latest effort to avoid accidents.

......

 

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/03/that_beeping_and_honking_you_a.html

 

 

 

cleveland1979, I am asking you to dial down the rhetoric and to communicate in a more civilized way.

I am certainly not in the minority of those upset by the latest round of "innovations" coming from West 6th.  They need to be challenged.

You can be upset all you want. You can challenge something all you want. But it needs to be done in a civil manner here.

This beeping buses thing wasn't in any Rider's Alerts or literature on the website simply because -- RTA JUST CAME UP WITH IT!

 

Jerry said this is some kind of pilot project that was in the works for a while. Uh huh! I guess it's just coincidence that a pedestrian was mowed down in Public Square last week while you were working on the "beeping buses" project. Too bad you guys hadn't finished the project a week ahead of time, I guess it could have saved the man's life.

 

RTA's brilliant idea of equipping all buses with "beeping noises" is a knee jerk reaction to their failure to control the justifiable media outrage over the pedestrian death in Public Square.

 

Jerry said it had been planned for a while, and I tend to believe him.  Anyway, do you really think RTA would have come up with this AND implemented it in a one week period? 

Great, I say a million positive things about this city and the PD gets me complaining one time.  Although if this possibly could get this to stop I'll take it.  This is really ridiculous.  If cars went around beeping there horns incessantly than they would get a noise violation ticket.  Should I start calling the cops and have them pull over busses?  I love the urban environment and have put up with the acceleration of busses from my corner for years, I knew this when I bought the place.  But this is above and beyond just urban noise.