October 14, 200915 yr Caution, bus turning, pedestrians look both ways, look both ways.. Isn't "look both ways" technically incorrect? As a pedestrian, if you only look left and right, you're likely to miss a bus that's coming around the corner at you. Isn't this the source of the problem to begin with? you knew I was going to say this, for those that that have an issue with this, have you contacted RTA? Well since Jerry frequents this thread, technically yes, we've all told RTA. No individually we haven't told RTA. saying we dont like it HERE is the easy way out.
October 14, 200915 yr Caution, bus turning, pedestrians look both ways, look both ways.. Isn't "look both ways" technically incorrect? As a pedestrian, if you only look left and right, you're likely to miss a bus that's coming around the corner at you. Isn't this the source of the problem to begin with? you knew I was going to say this, for those that that have an issue with this, have you contacted RTA? Well since Jerry frequents this thread, technically yes, we've all told RTA. No individually we haven't told RTA. saying we dont like it HERE is the easy way out. If you aren't cheatin', you're trying too hard.
October 14, 200915 yr Caution, bus turning, pedestrians look both ways, look both ways.. Isn't "look both ways" technically incorrect? As a pedestrian, if you only look left and right, you're likely to miss a bus that's coming around the corner at you. Isn't this the source of the problem to begin with? you knew I was going to say this, for those that that have an issue with this, have you contacted RTA? Well since Jerry frequents this thread, technically yes, we've all told RTA. No individually we haven't told RTA. saying we dont like it HERE is the easy way out. If you aren't cheatin', you're trying too hard. Cheaters never prosper! :P
October 17, 200915 yr thanks a lot RTA for deciding to do scheduled maintenance today and shut down the rapid. you cant do this stuff on a sunday instead of saturday? the browns are away tomorrow so i cant think of any other reason not to shut down the rapid on a sunday instead of saturday seems like its not operating every other week on sat extremely annoying
October 17, 200915 yr thanks a lot RTA for deciding to do scheduled maintenance today and shut down the rapid. you cant do this stuff on a sunday instead of saturday? the browns are away tomorrow so i cant think of any other reason not to shut down the rapid on a sunday instead of saturday seems like its not operating every other week on sat extremely annoying If you're talking about the Blue Line maintenance, it's today and tomorrow. If you're talking about the WFL maintenance, that's a 3-week project. Both of them are announced in Riders' Alerts.
October 17, 200915 yr nevermind i thought it said today on the note at the stop.......i see now on the website its all weekend. my fault
October 18, 200915 yr Author If you're talking about the Blue Line maintenance, it's today and tomorrow. If you're talking about the WFL maintenance, that's a 3-week project. Both of them are announced in Riders' Alerts. Thanks for being a cooler head. I do find it ironic that ODOT shut down the Inner Belt bridge this weekend, too. I guess the transportation powers-that-be looked at this weekend's events calendar for downtown and decided this was the time to do both. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 19, 200915 yr I am back, and just read all the posts about the talking buses. Accidents caused by left-hands turns are a national problem, and all transit systems are looking at ways to make the environment safer for all concerned. Pedestrians have a role to play, and speaking as someone who walks daily around downtown Cleveland, I can say they are a very impatient bunch, with no regard for crosswalks, traffic signals, cars or buses. Some of them think the sign that flashes "don't walk" is an advertisement for RTA. On the flip side, every day I see motorists who stop in the middle of crosswalks, people who "cruise" through a right turn on red (no stop), and many other problems. One day, in the short walk from Tower City to RTA, I counted 10 people breaking the law. The issue will be with us for some time. Your suggestions are always welcome, but frankly, I do not see the talking buses going away until something more "viable" and more "reliable" comes along. No one wants to see more accidents, more fatals, and more settlements. If this is what it takes, then so be it. Thanks to those on this forum for providing mostly intelligent posts. The posters over at cleveland.com are now being held to a higher standard, and that's great. Maybe the personal attacks on me will subside. If people can just stick to the message, instead of aiming at the messenger, we will all be better off. FYI, last week, I stayed with a family that was not transit-friendly, so we drove everywhere. Did you know that it costs $35 a day to park your car for more than an hour in downtown Chicago? I would not pay that price, but they do, about once a month. My wife saw a number of trains in Chicago, and her only comment was "they look old."
October 20, 200915 yr The Morning Journal (morningjournal.com), Serving Northern Ohio News Vote puts brakes on RTA's route to Avon Lake, for good Tuesday, October 20, 2009 By MEGAN ROZSA [email protected] AVON LAKE — "Public transportation in Avon Lake is dead," said Ward 4 Councilman David Kos after last night's special council meeting. RTA service to Avon Lake will end Nov. 6. Council voted 5-1 to end RTA service into Avon Lake, even though the city had $15,000 budgeted to work up a plan to keep the service available. Kos was the only yes vote... FULL ARTICLE: http://www.morningjournal.com/articles/2009/10/20/news/mj1776354.prt © 2009 morningjournal.com, a Journal Register Property
October 20, 200915 yr Average daily ridership was only 25, and there was no real park-and-ride location for those who don't live on the route. I would guess more Lorain County residents use the Westlake or North Olmsted Park-n-Ride lots anyway. When only 25 people out of 18-20 thousand are utilizing a service, it's hard to justify a municipal subsidy, whether we're talking transit or any other service.
October 22, 200915 yr This is overkill. Buses have been making turns in downtown Cleveland for more than 80 years. Why are these suddenly needed? The horn-honking, turn-indicator beeping and now the talking is noise pollution and should be subject to local laws. C'mon RTA. I'm your biggest fan and a huge supporter of making transit and walking safer. But this is going beyond common sense. When you're so afraid of pedestrians' lawyers or the Amalgamated Transit Union Local 268 that you can't tell them you're going to implement driver training programs, then you deserve all the public backlash you're going to get. I agree. Spending $700,000 on talking busses is just plain wasteful. RTA seriously could not come up with a better way to spend the stimulus money? How about the Brookpark Rd rapid station or the many other RTA properties that need to be fixed up.? How about restoring some service recently cut? And besides, the automated system that announces stops on trains and busses still does not work. What should make us think these new messages will actually play at the right times?
October 22, 200915 yr Author Oh well... hope they can afford the next oil spike. ::) OK EagleFan, why are you rolling your eyes. I think Oldmanladyluck made a perfectly rational prediction. Perhaps that oil spike is underway right now as oil broke back above the $80 per barrel price yesterday. But suburbanites like to think they've escaped reality in every sense of the word. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 23, 200915 yr Spending $700,000 on talking busses is just plain wasteful. RTA seriously could not come up with a better way to spend the stimulus money? How about the Brookpark Rd rapid station or the many other RTA properties that need to be fixed up.? How about restoring some service recently cut? And besides, the automated system that announces stops on trains and busses still does not work. What should make us think these new messages will actually play at the right times? Can't argue with you... Actually, I thought I'd read RTA is moving ahead with the Brookpark Rapid station rebuild w/o the planned TOD, hoping that TOD happens later.
October 23, 200915 yr Oh well... hope they can afford the next oil spike. ::) OK EagleFan, why are you rolling your eyes. I think Oldmanladyluck made a perfectly rational prediction. Perhaps that oil spike is underway right now as oil broke back above the $80 per barrel price yesterday. But suburbanites like to think they've escaped reality in every sense of the word. It's nice that you have surburbanites all figured out. :clap: (BTW, you live in a suburb.) They are not standing around waiting to panic over $8 gasoline, though I expect that is a picture you love to imagine.
October 23, 200915 yr Spending $700,000 on talking busses is just plain wasteful. RTA seriously could not come up with a better way to spend the stimulus money? How about the Brookpark Rd rapid station or the many other RTA properties that need to be fixed up.? How about restoring some service recently cut? And besides, the automated system that announces stops on trains and busses still does not work. What should make us think these new messages will actually play at the right times? Can't argue with you... Actually, I thought I'd read RTA is moving ahead with the Brookpark Rapid station rebuild w/o the planned TOD, hoping that TOD happens later. The A/E design award was given at the June board of trustees meeting. Design goes until Aug 2010, construction award in Dec 2010, and construction complete sometime in 2012. Here is the presentation given at the planning committee meeting: http://www.riderta.com/pdf/presentations/2009-06-02-Brookpark.pdf
October 25, 200915 yr Author It's nice that you have surburbanites all figured out. :clap: (BTW, you live in a suburb.) They are not standing around waiting to panic over $8 gasoline, though I expect that is a picture you love to imagine. My portion of Lakewood is more urbanized (urban is defined by the Census using population density) than any part of Cleveland including perhaps Shaker Square. And, yes, I have figured out the narrow silliness of suburbanites, hence the reason why I live where I live. Among their silly actions will be them pawning everything they own to afford buying gas as they end up sleeping in their cars. Yes, I'm exaggerating, but not much...... http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x989758 http://www.carliving.net/ http://www.timesnews.net/article.php?id=9006419 http://www.wikihow.com/Live-in-Your-Car http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/02/us/02cars.html "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 1, 200915 yr The large LED sign at the Brook Park RTS is still not providing complete information for "The Next 3 Scheduled Trains". Here's what is says, all the time: Airport [Time-- which is correct], Airport/Winderme No, that's not a misspelling, that's where the message gets cut off. I seem to recall notifying RTA about this many months ago, but it hasn't been fixed.
November 3, 200915 yr I have to say that I LOVE the new stop announcements on the Trolley. It's actually a normal voice. Night and day difference... a great improvement!
November 4, 200915 yr FYI - It appears that the waterfront line is back up and running. I noticed that yesterday when the crossing gate was down by the Settlers Landing stop for an extended period during morning rush.
November 5, 200915 yr I rarely see anyone but the driver on those trains. I usually see a few people on them on the weekends. People going to and from the RRHOF and the occasional large group of young kids with parents in tow. There are usually a few people either going to the muni lots of coming from the E9th station around rush hour as well. Not highly utilized though, that's for sure.
November 5, 200915 yr Author The line runs only during the rush hours on weekdays. It has more complete timetable on weekends though. I remember in its second year of service (1997), the Waterfront Line carried more than 1 million passengers, almost double what it carried in its first year. But that was in the waning days of the Flats East Bank. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 5, 200915 yr It has some great potential... I love that it exists right now and when (God willing!) the Flats return to their glory days, at least the public transit will be in place. One less hurdle to jump.
November 5, 200915 yr ^^I still think if the WFL ran all night, or at least until 3am, the Flats would have been much healtier, and the WFL would have been much more valuable
November 5, 200915 yr ^^I still think if the WFL ran all night, or at least until 3am, the Flats would have been much healtier, and the WFL would have been much more valuable Nope. The businesses closed, failed or were forced to close, along combined with the area's waining reputation, therefore limiting the WFL's need/demand. RTA would spend money to schedule, staff and maintain trains with no passengers. A complete waste of money. Now the "new" flats, that definitely will be needed with entertainment, residents and business being built. It will be a 24/7 area in need of good transportation.
November 5, 200915 yr Author http://www.railwayage.com/breaking-news/protran1-lands-cleveland-transit-contract.html Cleveland RTA taps ProTran1 Nov. 5, 2009 The Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority Wednesday gave ProTran1 LLC a Notice to Proceed to install ProTran1’s ProTracker Alert System on all GCRTA’s transit vehicles. Blue Anchor, N.J.-based ProTran1’s contract with GCRTA is worth $750,000. The regional authority already has put in place the supplier’s ProTracker system for Track Worker Safety. The Alert System is expected to be completed within six months. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 5, 200915 yr ^^The WFL opened in '96, at about the time Fado opened on the west bank. I think this was the height of the East Bank, but it rapidly declined afte that. If more adult customers had a choice in traveling to the flats, they could have kept the nicer venues open before they all needed to go 18+ in order to pay the rent. I remember thinking it was strange to have a train go through the flats, but not cater to the people who traveled to it.
November 9, 200915 yr Author From today's Cudell Snippets e-newsletter... Colorful Historic District Panels Enliven RTA Bus Shelters in Lorain Station Historic District Lorain Station Historic District's historical images now enliven the six bus shelters in the District, thanks to colorful designs by David Meeker, designer with Carl Lillis & Associates. The panels depict various images from the growth and development of the Lorain Station Historic District - a local and national register landmark district. The panels have been in the works for some time now by Cudell Improvement but the wait was worth it. The panels complement the historical landmark signage (another Cudell Improvement, Inc. project) in front of USBank on the northeast corner of West 98th and Lorain Avenue. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 13, 200915 yr I was back in the Cleve this past weekend for the first time since April. First observation: the stop announcements on the Red Line (actually, only on one of the red line trips I took) were awesome. Pleasant real human voice with some well crafted good-behavior reminders in there too. Very nice job, RTA, though would have been nice if it was right the first time. Second observation- to beat a dead horse here: this was my first interaction with the fare machines, and wow are they terrible. Even worse than I expected after all of the very poor reviews here. There was a line at the airport station when I arrived due to seemingly intelligent visitors trying to figure out the machine. Which meant missing a train departure. Which just made me even matter at RTA. At the airport station and then at two other stations during my brief stay I heard other customers complaining about how inexplicably terrible the machines are. The very low screen height, lack of touch screen and poor customer selection software are really a perfect storm of bad design. This is seriously the kind of product that I would expect someone at RTA to be fired for. And that's not even considering how long it took the machines to become operational. I really can't understand how this happened. There are so many existing systems out there, it really should not have been hard to identify what seemed to be working in other cities.
November 13, 200915 yr Author I tried the fare machines for the first time last month with a friend from Chicago. We used the machines at Tower City. It took the two of us about 3-5 minutes to figure it out -- which is way too long. Last May, I used the London Underground fare machines for the first time. I figured it out in less than a minute. In 1985, at the age of 18, I figured out the Washington Metro's fare machines in about the same amount of time. I don't remember the specific time it took me, but I remember it being very simple. Chicago's, New York's, Paris', and many other transit systems' fare machines were pretty straightforward. When I looked at RTA's for the first time last month, I felt intimidated because nothing was clear within 15-30 seconds of looking at it. And the intimidation gets amplified when people start accumulating in line behind you. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 13, 200915 yr Not to mention which, the separate machine that says "tap smartcards here" means nothing to anyone - there's nothing indicating you are buying a "smart card" or even what a 'smart card" is - in fact, I still don't know.
November 13, 200915 yr I was back in the Cleve this past weekend for the first time since April. First observation: the stop announcements on the Red Line (actually, only on one of the red line trips I took) were awesome. Pleasant real human voice with some well crafted good-behavior reminders in there too. Very nice job, RTA, though would have been nice if it was right the first time. Second observation- to beat a dead horse here: this was my first interaction with the fare machines, and wow are they terrible. Even worse than I expected after all of the very poor reviews here. There was a line at the airport station when I arrived due to seemingly intelligent visitors trying to figure out the machine. Which meant missing a train departure. Which just made me even matter at RTA. At the airport station and then at two other stations during my brief stay I heard other customers complaining about how inexplicably terrible the machines are. The very low screen height, lack of touch screen and poor customer selection software are really a perfect storm of bad design. This is seriously the kind of product that I would expect someone at RTA to be fired for. And that's not even considering how long it took the machines to become operational. I really can't understand how this happened. There are so many existing systems out there, it really should not have been hard to identify what seemed to be working in other cities. Great observations, StrapHanger (sans those about the automatic station announcements, since the last ones I heard months ago were awful -- glad RTA updated them). I can't agree more about the fare machines, and you're right, they are way too low to the ground. I also can't imagine not having an attendant at the airport, at least during busy periods, to help people, esp given the higher than normal amount of non "regulars" who access the Red Line there... And again, why only 2 machines there. RTA has fumbled the ball, bigtime, even though the POP concept is a good one for Cleveland -- including mixing it with the Tower City automated faregates which, I think are needed.
November 13, 200915 yr ^Oh man, I didn't even notice that. I do love smart cards though and believe RTA said last year that they are in our future (some day). Smart cards are sturdier fare cards on which credit is stored in a rfid chip that transmits a signal to a receiver at the fare gate (or validation machine)- so instead of swiping a magnetic strip, you can just tap a target area on the machine and it deducts your fare. They use them in Boston, DC and I think Chicago- probably lots of other places now too. But having that label on the machines already is not going to help matters now. I think it's the height that bothers me most about these machines. They're like pygmy mid-1980s ATMs.
November 13, 200915 yr ^Oh man, I didn't even notice that. I do love smart cards though and believe RTA said last year that they are in our future (some day). Smart cards are sturdier fare cards on which credit is stored in a rfid chip that transmits a signal to a receiver at the fare gate (or validation machine)- so instead of swiping a magnetic strip, you can just tap a target area on the machine and it deducts your fare. They use them in Boston, DC and I think Chicago- probably lots of other places now too. But having that label on the machines already is not going to help matters now. I think it's the height that bothers me most about these machines. They're like pygmy mid-1980s ATMs. There is never anyone there. They are "tea cup sized" fare machines. Chicago doesn't have them. NYC tested them at certain stations, but they have budget and technology issues.
November 14, 200915 yr ^Oh man, I didn't even notice that. I do love smart cards though and believe RTA said last year that they are in our future (some day). Smart cards are sturdier fare cards on which credit is stored in a rfid chip that transmits a signal to a receiver at the fare gate (or validation machine)- so instead of swiping a magnetic strip, you can just tap a target area on the machine and it deducts your fare. They use them in Boston, DC and I think Chicago- probably lots of other places now too. But having that label on the machines already is not going to help matters now. I think it's the height that bothers me most about these machines. They're like pygmy mid-1980s ATMs. a few updates: - all of the fixed line routes - healthline, red, blue, green and trolleys will have human voice announcements. it is on the red line and trolleys now. - fare machine software is being redesigned and rta has not accepted the equipment or software from the vendor - so the vendor hasn't been paid yet. there are 2 major issues: reliability (giving right fare media, change, etc.) and usability. both are being worked on, but the vendor wants to fix the reliability issues first and then work on usability. originally, new software with far fewer screens was to be done by Jan 1, however, the vendor was recently sold and although there is still some sort of progress, it has been delayed. - machine heights. this is a pure cost issue. a machine at each station has to be ADA accessible, and at stations with 2 machines, if 1 of the machines is off line, then no ADA. so, a decision was made to make all machines ADA compliant. there should be some usability improvements as part of the software redo (bigger buttons and text, button numbers "R5" on the actual screen, fewer screens). There is also a proposal to redo the front of the machine signage to introduce a "1,2,3" fare purchasing approach with 3 different colors. This is last on the list after reliability and software updates. - RTA also recently completed some focus groups from riders on the redline - and got a lot of valuable info. biggest complaint: fare machines. - smartcards - were supposed to be rolled out to rta employees this summer, and then to the regular public later in the year. with the reliability issues of the ticket vending machines, this has fallen down the list for implementation. haven't heard a new date, but they still plan to offer smartcard in the future - if only for monthly pass holders and employees.
November 14, 200915 yr ^Oh man, I didn't even notice that. I do love smart cards though and believe RTA said last year that they are in our future (some day). Smart cards are sturdier fare cards on which credit is stored in a rfid chip that transmits a signal to a receiver at the fare gate (or validation machine)- so instead of swiping a magnetic strip, you can just tap a target area on the machine and it deducts your fare. They use them in Boston, DC and I think Chicago- probably lots of other places now too. But having that label on the machines already is not going to help matters now. I think it's the height that bothers me most about these machines. They're like pygmy mid-1980s ATMs. a few updates: - all of the fixed line routes - healthline, red, blue, green and trolleys will have human voice announcements. it is on the red line and trolleys now. - fare machine software is being redesigned and rta has not accepted the equipment or software from the vendor - so the vendor hasn't been paid yet. there are 2 major issues: reliability (giving right fare media, change, etc.) and usability. both are being worked on, but the vendor wants to fix the reliability issues first and then work on usability. originally, new software with far fewer screens was to be done by Jan 1, however, the vendor was recently sold and although there is still some sort of progress, it has been delayed. - machine heights. this is a pure cost issue. a machine at each station has to be ADA accessible, and at stations with 2 machines, if 1 of the machines is off line, then no ADA. so, a decision was made to make all machines ADA compliant. there should be some usability improvements as part of the software redo (bigger buttons and text, button numbers "R5" on the actual screen, fewer screens). There is also a proposal to redo the front of the machine signage to introduce a "1,2,3" fare purchasing approach with 3 different colors. This is last on the list after reliability and software updates. - RTA also recently completed some focus groups from riders on the redline - and got a lot of valuable info. biggest complaint: fare machines. - smartcards - were supposed to be rolled out to rta employees this summer, and then to the regular public later in the year. with the reliability issues of the ticket vending machines, this has fallen down the list for implementation. haven't heard a new date, but they still plan to offer smartcard in the future - if only for monthly pass holders and employees. Thanks for the update. However, as a tall person, I'll be sending RTA my chiropractor bills! he he he he
November 14, 200915 yr Yes- thanks Urbanlife for that. I appreciate that RTA is using focus groups, but for them to need one to know the fare machines are a complete disaster is a little sad. Part of me still wants to see some RTA blood on the street in the form of pink slips after that fiasco. At best, it was miserable contractor selection and management. I don't really get the height thing- I'm not sure I've seen such low vending machines at any other system, but maybe it's because they also had staffed booths which met ADA requirements. In any case, there must have been a better design that could meet both ADA and normal adult height satisfaction. I'm sympathatic to cost issue though. Chicago doesn't have them. NYC tested them at certain stations, but they have budget and technology issues. I've never used them, but I thought Chicago did have smart cards now: http://www.chicago-card.com/? I know the MTA did the pilot with the MC PayPass (I love may Pay Pass and sometimes used it on the 6 train) but it didn't seem to generate much enthusiasm- probably because metro cards work just fine, so there's not much on the user end to be gained. Though I think it's more fairto say MTA has technology and budget issues, not smart cards, because they've worked beautifully in many other cities.
November 14, 200915 yr ^When I first moved to Vienna it took me about a minute to figure out the vending machines and I spoke no German. A few weeks ago I spent about a minute in Tower City trying to figure out the machine, and then gave up and went to the cashier. The machines are in no way user friendly, and they need to be fixed.
November 15, 200915 yr I've noticed that the articulated buses aren't being used on the 22 & 26 on the weekends anymore. I can see not using them at night but I was on a eastbound 26 yesterday evening and around 80th and Detroit I saw a westbound bus with 2 standees...it was around 6:30pm. I hope RTA will bring back the artics at least for daytime Saturday and early evenings.
November 16, 200915 yr Agreed on the fare machines. I've taken the red line to the airport a few times and it's amazing how counter-intuitive they are. The increments when purchasing a fare are ridiculous--and why does it default to the senior/disabled fare? And is it me, or are the machines designed for 3' tall midgets? I have to literally sit on my knees to see the screens. I'm not sure I should worry anyway--I've never been approached to actually prove I paid my fare anyway. C'est la Cleveland.
November 16, 200915 yr I actually haven't found them to be too difficult to figure out, although I agree about the height of the machines.
November 16, 200915 yr I noticed that the rapid station on East 55th near I-490 is under construction. Anyone have any details about when it will be completed and opened? Also, on RTA's page, what does it mean that "this is one of the few RTA stations that serves both heavy-rail and light-rail customers?"
November 16, 200915 yr Also, on RTA's page, what does it mean that "this is one of the few RTA stations that serves both heavy-rail and light-rail customers?" That means that the station serves the the Red line (heavy rail) and Blue/Green lines (light rail).
November 16, 200915 yr Also, on RTA's page, what does it mean that "this is one of the few RTA stations that serves both heavy-rail and light-rail customers?" That means that the station serves the the Red line (heavy rail) and Blue/Green lines (light rail). Point being that the station requires both high and low platforms.
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