Who are the advocates for public transit in Cleveland?

 

The riders of public transit! ie US!

Light turned red WELL before he proceeded into the intersection - instead this jack@ss honks his horn and PLOWS through a red light - thank god the pedestrians who were crossing Superior and the motorists coming from Prospect saw him.

 

I see the honk-because-I'm-plowing-through-the-light thing almost every single day in public square, and a lot of motorists do it to so I'm sure they're just replicating how they drive when they're in their cars.  Honking your horn repeatedly does not make running the light ok.

Light turned red WELL before he proceeded into the intersection - instead this jack@ss honks his horn and PLOWS through a red light - thank god the pedestrians who were crossing Superior and the motorists coming from Prospect saw him.

 

I see the honk-because-I'm-plowing-through-the-light thing almost every single day in public square, and a lot of motorists do it to so I'm sure they're just replicating how they drive when they're in their cars. Honking your horn repeatedly does not make running the light ok.

 

I also see this far too often.  In fact, last winter I saw a bus simply run a red light (it appeared she didn't even look at the light) and get t-boned by an SUV.  I know you have a schedule to keep, but this behavior is unacceptable.

 

"You'd have to kill someone at that job to get fired...."

 

Now pump the brakes!  (pun intended) At RTA your union will defend you and fight to reinstate you even with a fatality.  I'm mainly anti-union because of short-sighted policies like these and become more-so with every year that passes. 

I'm not necessarily anti-union, but I am pro-freedom.  In an optimally free society, workers would have the right to join a union or not to, but by the same token, employers would have the right to deal with that union or not to.  Neither group would be permitted to threaten or use violence against others.  It would then be in the interests of both parties to work together in a reasonable fashion, because, if they did not, either one could go elsewhere.  For example if RTA were unhappy with the ATU's terms, for whatever reason, it could dump the ATU at the end of the current contract, and hire drivers from a different union or from no union at all.  It is very unlikely in that case that RTA could be forced to employ drivers it knows to be unsafe, or to pay drivers significantly higher wages than what would prevail on the open market.  While ATU would no longer be able to demand those kinds of unreasonable concessions, it could focus on issues more similar to those for which unions were formed in the first place.  For instance it could help drivers more effectively address the issue of unheated buses in winter and uncooled ones in summer, and allow drivers to speak to that issue, or others involving worker safety and health, with a single united voice.  I really do believe that many of our problems, including most of those between labor and management, originate from the prevalence of violence (direct and indirect, threatened and actual) in our society, and the equivalent loss of freedom.  Indeed, the very need for subsidized public transit probably stems from this as well; if we had not subsidized highways and oil for 50+ years, cities would be designed much differently and in a much more transit-friendly fashion.

Who are the advocates for public transit in Cleveland?

 

Sorry, should have phrased the question better. Is there an organized group advocating for public transit in Cleveland? Like Transportation Alternatives or the Straphangers Campaign in NYC or the Portland Transit Riders Union?

Who are the advocates for public transit in Cleveland?

 

All Aboard Ohio. Yes, it's traditionally been a rail-oriented advocacy group, but it's diversifying into an organization that advocates all forms of intercity and intracity public transport. There will be more news about this in the coming month. Keep an eye on this thread for updates:

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,12191.0.html

Cleveland mention in the article.

 

Job woes reduce transit ridership

By Marisol Bello, USA TODAY, December 21, 2009

 

After a record year in 2008, the number of people riding buses and trains dropped in 2009 as unemployment rose and fewer people traveled to work.

 

Last year, public transit ridership hit a 52-year high of 10.7 billion rides. This year, January-through-September ridership was down 4% from the first nine months of last year to 7.7 billion trips, according to new figures from the American Public Transportation Association.

Who are the advocates for public transit in Cleveland?

 

All Aboard Ohio. Yes, it's traditionally been a rail-oriented advocacy group, but it's diversifying into an organization that advocates all forms of intercity and intracity public transport. There will be more news about this in the coming month. Keep an eye on this thread for updates:

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,12191.0.html

 

To expand on this, a conference call was held today about the Cleveland transit cuts, and those being considered/undertaken in other Ohio cities. A number of organizations are coming together to fight this, including All Aboard Ohio, Greater Ohio, Green City Blue Lake, Policy Matters Ohio, Ohio Sierra Club, Apollo Alliance and others.

 

We are all going to need your help, especially in getting out the word that these cuts are only to keep getting worse unless we do something to secure long-term funding at the state level. There are ways of doing this via ODOT budget offsets and efficiencies that can avail tens of millions of dollars for transit. If the upcoming RTA public hearings become a "I hate RTA"-fest, then the hearings will be a wasted opportunity to cause meaningful change....

 

Thus, we all need your help to get more people willing to give that message to come to the hearings. Please help with:

 

+ Distributing fliers (download from www.allaboardohio.org)

+ Distributing RTA public hearing schedules (TBA soon)

+ Distributing talking points (TBA soon)

+ Distributing "the ask" (TBA soon)

+ Writing letters to the editor of the PD

+ Get "the ask" and talking points out to numerous civic, social and other organizations (CSU students, West Side Ecumenical Ministry, 20/30 Club, the CDCs, etc. etc)

 

Some of the other longer term strategies that should be considered for Cleveland region advocates include: 

• CSU Forum event in winter on “Fixing transit for the long haul”; bring in someone from Chicago’s RTA or some other APTA or other transit/transpo notable expert;

• Facebook page for supporters of transit and as a means of providing activist alerts;

• Briefings for supportive Ohio legislators;

• 3-4 regional sessions convening legislators with businesses, chamber of commerce, educational institutions, and other constituents with large customer/employment base that is affected by the transit cutbacks.

We are all going to need your help, especially in getting out the word that these cuts are only to keep getting worse unless we do something to secure long-term funding at the state level. There are ways of doing this via ODOT budget offsets and efficiencies that can avail tens of millions of dollars for transit. If the upcoming RTA public hearings become a "I hate RTA"-fest, then the hearings will be a wasted opportunity to cause meaningful change....

 

 

 

Is there a way (or someone who is willing) to pull together a meeting of individuals who are committed to working on this? It seems we could accomplish more by having a cohesive plan and executing it then by randomly taking on individual tasks. Meaning....I shouldn't be spending my time working to get the word out to my local CDC/civic organization if there is someone better positioned to do that and I could instead be working on an organization that I may not know as well but that otherwise wouldn't be targeted.

Good suggestion. I'm willing to pull together a meeting, but a lot of this can be done and managed by social networking. A Facebook site is going to be put together (not by me :) ) probably after the holidays.

Good suggestion. I'm willing to pull together a meeting, but a lot of this can be done and managed by social networking. A Facebook site is going to be put together (not by me :) ) probably after the holidays.

 

I'm in for helping wherever I can.  My mom is doing a similar thing in St. Louis.

Where is the criticism of Strictland (sp?) on this.  I thought he was going to fix transit funding after the Evil Taft was removed.  I don't see where his transit policy is any different than Taft.  Anyone care to enlighten me?

Where is the criticism of Strictland (sp?) on this.  I thought he was going to fix transit funding after the Evil Taft was removed.  I don't see where his transit policy is any different than Taft.  Anyone care to enlighten me?

 

Um, the overall economy.

I guess public transit is just not a "priority" for this Governor. 

I guess public transit is just not a "priority" for this Governor. 

 

Where do you propose he get the money?  Where is it going to come from and what will be cut so that transportation funding can be increased?

 

In this economy what are his priorities?

 

I'm just asking......

re: "RTA hate-fest," I was just thinking about this a couple of days ago, as I had considered going to the public forum downtown, but given that this is exactly what it was last time, and likely will be this time, I wondered - why do they even do these public forums?  Are they required by law? I understand if the goal is to educate the public, but the public seems to be showing up to these things with pitchforks and torches in hand basically, so what's the point?  Or at the very least, have the forums to offer explanations of why the cuts are being done, but do not offer the public a chance to give comments - that's where the whole thing becomes a witch hunt with some grandstanding idiot like Polensik getting up and making things worse by riling people up further and making RTA out to be a bad guy, making cuts just because they're mean.  The last public forum was one of the most frustrating things I've ever been to.

why do they even do these public forums? Are they required by law?

Yes

why do they even do these public forums?  Are they required by law? I understand if the goal is to educate the public, but the public seems to be showing up to these things with pitchforks and torches in hand basically, so what's the point? 

 

Upper management at RTA needs to change.  Mistakes are piling up and accountability is zero point zero.  I don't care if the official rationale is "witchcraft," people need to start getting fired immediately.  Virtually everything they've built or installed in the last few years is a disgrace to this community.  In particular, we need to see a mea culpa on these fare machines and we need to see it now.  Why is that not happening? 

 

I know, I know, the financing issues are over most people's heads.  But that's not the point, if you're already wasting the money you have.  These are two separate issues that shouldn't be conflated, i.e. sales tax revenue and state funding have NOTHING TO DO with the incompetent purchasing and planning decisions being made here.  Are we moving to expand rail?  Hell no, we're moving to expand BRT.  Attention Joe C:  Bush isn't president anymore.  Everyone is talking about rail now... except you.

Upper management at RTA needs to change.  Mistakes are piling up and accountability is zero point zero.  I don't care if the official rationale is "witchcraft," people need to start getting fired immediately.  Virtually everything they've built or installed in the last few years is a disgrace to this community.  In particular, we need to see a mea culpa on these fare machines and we need to see it now.  Why is that not happening? 

 

I know, I know, the financing issues are over most people's heads.  But that's not the point, if you're already wasting the money you have.  These are two separate issues that shouldn't be conflated, i.e. sales tax revenue and state funding have NOTHING TO DO with the incompetent purchasing and planning decisions being made here.  Are we moving to expand rail?  Hell no, we're moving to expand BRT.  Attention Joe C:  Bush isn't president anymore.  Everyone is talking about rail now... except you.

 

I'm not an apologist, however, I hate it when a person preaches from the couch!

 

[*]Who exactly should take over, and what is their plan??.  Oh, and keep in mind most transit systems aren't as financial viable as RTA.  Most are on the verge of bankruptcy.

[*]Everything is disgrace?  What a way to make a credible point!  ::)

[*]Everyone is talking about rail, but is it built and where are "those people" getting the money to build rail.  I don't see any rail going up except what was planned 5/6 years ago.

I don't see any rail going up except what was planned 5/6 years ago.

 

It is amazing that you could type this out and still miss my point.  Merry Christmas!

I don't see any rail going up except what was planned 5/6 years ago.

 

It is amazing that you could type this out and still miss my point.  Merry Christmas!

 

I didn't miss your point.  You don't have a leg to stand on!  What some other city/cities planned in the past has nothing to do with bad management.  If you don't have the funds or are not projected to have the funds you don't start new capital programs without fixing the existing infrastructure.

 

RTA shouldn't try to expand without upgrading every single Station currently in existence.  However, I'll give you that we should see a long term plan with rail in it, but you need to have neighborhood support and ridership.  It would be different if all neighborhoods around downtown were expecting growth.

 

It's a catch 22.

 

However, I see you conveniently skipped over my queries.

OK folks, time for a short history lesson:

 

* In the late 1990s, the federal government cut operating funding for all transit agencies except for those with service areas having 250,000 people or less. In exchange, the feds increased capital funding for public transit.

 

* In response, numerous states increased their operating funding for public transit, in some cases the increases were dramatic such as in Michigan, Minnesota, Illinois, North Carolina, New York, Pennsylvania, etc.

 

* Ohio cut its funding for public transit operations 75 percent during the same period.

 

* Ohio transit agencies were forced to rely almost entirely on local funding.

 

* Ohio law requires transit agencies to be county-based. Most transit systems are in urbanized counties. Most urbanized counties are seeing their wealthiest residents move to new suburbs in "collar counties" along with their payroll taxes, property taxes and sales taxes.

 

* Transit agencies have seen their local sources of funding drop 5-20 percent in recent years while fuel costs have skyrocketed.

 

The moral of the story:  Under the above conditions, you could have a transit superman running a transit agency in Ohio and he would still have to cut service, increase fares or both to have a balanced budget which is required by law.

 

Based on the above, I would hope that reasonable people would come to these conclusions:

 

++ Get the federal government to allow all transit agencies to trade in a portion of their federal capital funding for federal operating funding. After all, it doesn't make sense if the feds provide capital funding for nice new buses, transit centers or rail lines if the transit agencies can't afford to people to operate them. This "trading in" concept is a pending amendment to the U.S. House version of the delayed six-year surface transportation spending reauthorization.

 

++ Increase state funding for transit so that local agencies can at least diversify their revenue stream to 25 percent from state funds, 25 percent from passengers and 50 percent local taxes. The current average mix is 25 percent from fares, 75 percent from local taxes. This means increasing state funding from $10 million per year to about $75 million per year. This can be done by offsets and cost-savings within ODOT's existing budget. See All Aboard Ohio's "Operation: Sustain Transit" report for details.

 

++ Change Ohio law to allow transit agencies to become truly regional, inter-county operations. As a condition of this, require that all inter-county transit agencies cover 50 percent of their total costs from fares. This will likely require labor concessions from transit agency unions. This would change the agency funding mix to 50 percent from passengers, 25 percent state and 25 percent local.

 

These are the kinds of concepts that are being kicked around by a pro-transit coalition that's forming in Ohio. I'd be interested in hearing your feedback on these.

KJP.  I thank you for that History lesson.  Some folks - yeah I'm looking at you 327 - have "convenient" amnesia.

Through-routing and crosstown service could improve RTA service considerably, especially if service levels in general must be reduced, but the trend now seems to be in the opposite direction, and I'm not clear on why.

 

Remember for instance when they combined the 3 and 26 to allow more single-bus rides?  I thought that was a great idea and should have been expanded.  (For instance, the 39 and 51, 1 and 22, maybe eventually HealthLine and 55).  But instead we've seen the 22 route get split into 22 and 52, with the 52 likely to be eliminated.  Same thing with 14 and 24, 25 and 12/13, etc.  And they threaten to end the little bit of direct downtown service on the 7, 9, 32, 75, and even 39 (off-peak) that exists now.  They already eliminated direct downtown service on the 28.  This is a big county, and many suburb-to-suburb commutes by bus take 2-3 buses and sometimes 2-3 hours each way now.  Fewer longer routes mean fewer transfers, fewer missed connections, fewer delays, and fewer (but longer) layovers.  The need for these things gets more and more significant as service levels continue to be reduced.  With the proposed changes, not only will many people be forced to take 2 or even 3 buses just to get downtown, but many suburb-to-suburb commutes that are practical today will become impractical or even impossible, including mine (Euclid to Brooklyn, currently 90 minutes via 39 and 23, soon to be 3+ hours via 30 + Red Line + redesigned 23/79 + 15 minute walk).

 

Insofar as budgets will allow, everyone in densely populated areas of the county should be able to take one bus - or, at worst, two buses or trains one of which runs very frequently - to get downtown.  Schedules should be adjusted so that, particularly in off-peak hours where there is little traffic but very infrequent service, all buses arrive downtown on time, and (again insofar as practical) no buses leave until people have had time to make their connections.  Headways have already increased to an hour on all but very frequently used routes, and it is absolutely unacceptable to have to wait an hour - and maybe be an hour late for work - due to a missed connection.  Through-routing doesn't completely eliminate this problem but it does lessen it greatly since far fewer people need to transfer at all.

Through-routing and crosstown service could improve RTA service considerably, especially if service levels in general must be reduced, but the trend now seems to be in the opposite direction, and I'm not clear on why.

 

 

Because the operational reliability was horrible and the vehicle-service hours were actually much higher with the crosstown run-throughs.

 

Think about it-Part 1: if a bus runs late on the west side, the spacing between it and the earlier bus grows larger, so the crowds at stops waiting for the late bus get larger and larger, and the bus gets later and later. By the time it gets to the east side, the bus behind it has caught up to it and is carrying few riders. That also means the late bus turns back on the east side and starts its westbound run late. The schedule soon becomes meaningless. This happened time and time again. Signal prioritization for buses would help this, but there are so many different signal systems out there (especially among the various suburbs) that there is no opportunity for interoperability.

 

Think about this-Part 2: If a rush-hour schedule is operated on the west side inbound in the AM, it has to continue on a reverse rush-hour schedule outbound in the AM to the east side to provide buses for the inbound runs-hour schedule from the east side. The converse is true the AM. And the schedule has to be repeated in the afternoon rush hour. So now you're running an awful lot of empty "back-haul" buses to cover the rush hour schedules on the opposite side of town.

 

That's why RTA saves money and improves operational reliability by NOT having cross-town schedules.

I can see how these might be problems, but not insurmountable ones.

 

Obviously not all lines are suitable for through-routing, but today's lower ridership levels, bigger buses, and lower overall levels of service should mostly eliminate "part 1" of the problem, and when (hopefully) conditions improve in the future, once we approach 15 minute headways again, schedules become less important.  As for "part 2," not every trip needs to be through-routed.  It'd be fine for most 51 trips to end at Public Square in the AM and not become 39s . .  but all 39s in that direction would start out as 51s.  The opposite would presumably occur on the other rush hour, and during most of the day (non-peak), through-routed lines should generally have similar headways since neither direction serves significantly more trips than the other, and you want to pair lines with similar headways to begin with.

 

I do understand that there are some VERY problematic signal timing issues on some routes.  I'd guess that the 28 has some of the worst of them.  Lights in East Cleveland are timed to encourage ticket revenue, in blatant violation of state law, and the 28 suffers greatly from this.  A few days ago it took me about 15 minutes to DRIVE (a car, not stopping to pick up or drop off passengers) from Windermere to Euclid and Noble.  That is a distance of about 1.5 miles, and a healthy person could easily walk faster than this.  This also was at night.  It was not due to traffic, as there was almost no traffic; it's just that every light is timed so that either you speed to make it, or run it, or else you wait for the full length of every light in sequence.  West 117, and virtually every major road in Parma, have had similar issues in the past, although that might have improved since I'd last traveled that way.

 

 

KJP.  I thank you for that History lesson.  Some folks - yeah I'm looking at you 327 - have "convenient" amnesia.

 

You sure did burn me there.  Cheers!

 

Had I complained about route cuts or fare increases, these would be excellent retorts.  But I didn't... in fact, I specifically distinguished capital expenditure decisions (this fare machine v. that fare machine) from measures necessary to balance the operating budget, all of which I favor.  Answering long-term planning and capital concerns with obvious statements about tight operating budgets isn't helpful to you, or me, or RTA, or anyone.

 

My understanding is that RTA has discussed actively spending (someone's) money on studies for additional BRT (Buckeye and 55th come to mind), and that nobody is forcing them to do this.  My understanding is also that once per month I buy a pass from some clownish mockery of a fare machine that has RTA's name on it.  If these understandings are factually incorrect, then please by all means give me a hard time.  Wait-- on second thought, don't.

I guess public transit is just not a "priority" for this Governor.

 

Where do you propose he get the money? Where is it going to come from and what will be cut so that transportation funding can be increased?

 

In this economy what are his priorities?

 

I'm just asking......

 

Highway construction

Higher Education

Transfer of wealth payments

Secondary education

shall I go on?

Upper management at RTA needs to change. Mistakes are piling up and accountability is zero point zero. I don't care if the official rationale is "witchcraft," people need to start getting fired immediately. Virtually everything they've built or installed in the last few years is a disgrace to this community. In particular, we need to see a mea culpa on these fare machines and we need to see it now. Why is that not happening?

 

I know, I know, the financing issues are over most people's heads. But that's not the point, if you're already wasting the money you have. These are two separate issues that shouldn't be conflated, i.e. sales tax revenue and state funding have NOTHING TO DO with the incompetent purchasing and planning decisions being made here. Are we moving to expand rail? Hell no, we're moving to expand BRT. Attention Joe C: Bush isn't president anymore. Everyone is talking about rail now... except you.

 

I'm not an apologist, however, I hate it when a person preaches from the couch!

 

[*]Who exactly should take over, and what is their plan??. Oh, and keep in mind most transit systems aren't as financial viable as RTA. Most are on the verge of bankruptcy.

[*]Everything is disgrace? What a way to make a credible point! ::)

[*]Everyone is talking about rail, but is it built and where are "those people" getting the money to build rail. I don't see any rail going up except what was planned 5/6 years ago.

 

Easy, hire Ron Tober

Upper management at RTA needs to change.  Mistakes are piling up and accountability is zero point zero.  I don't care if the official rationale is "witchcraft," people need to start getting fired immediately.  Virtually everything they've built or installed in the last few years is a disgrace to this community.  In particular, we need to see a mea culpa on these fare machines and we need to see it now.  Why is that not happening? 

 

I know, I know, the financing issues are over most people's heads.  But that's not the point, if you're already wasting the money you have.  These are two separate issues that shouldn't be conflated, i.e. sales tax revenue and state funding have NOTHING TO DO with the incompetent purchasing and planning decisions being made here.  Are we moving to expand rail?  Hell no, we're moving to expand BRT.  Attention Joe C:  Bush isn't president anymore.  Everyone is talking about rail now... except you.

 

I'm not an apologist, however, I hate it when a person preaches from the couch!

   

[*]Who exactly should take over, and what is their plan??.  Oh, and keep in mind most transit systems aren't as financial viable as RTA.  Most are on the verge of bankruptcy.

[*]Everything is disgrace?  What a way to make a credible point!  ::)

[*]Everyone is talking about rail, but is it built and where are "those people" getting the money to build rail.  I don't see any rail going up except what was planned 5/6 years ago.

 

Easy, hire Ron Tober

 

And exactly where do we get the money for future planning & construction of said rail expansion?  Note:  see KJP's historical post from earlier today.

OK folks, time for a short history lesson:

 

* In the late 1990s, the federal government cut operating funding for all transit agencies except for those with service areas having 250,000 people or less. In exchange, the feds increased capital funding for public transit.

 

* In response, numerous states increased their operating funding for public transit, in some cases the increases were dramatic such as in Michigan, Minnesota, Illinois, North Carolina, New York, Pennsylvania, etc.

 

* Ohio cut its funding for public transit operations 75 percent during the same period.

 

* Ohio transit agencies were forced to rely almost entirely on local funding.

 

* Ohio law requires transit agencies to be county-based. Most transit systems are in urbanized counties. Most urbanized counties are seeing their wealthiest residents move to new suburbs in "collar counties" along with their payroll taxes, property taxes and sales taxes.

 

* Transit agencies have seen their local sources of funding drop 5-20 percent in recent years while fuel costs have skyrocketed.

 

The moral of the story:  Under the above conditions, you could have a transit superman running a transit agency in Ohio and he would still have to cut service, increase fares or both to have a balanced budget which is required by law.

 

My contention is KJP's bolded point is a RESULT of poor RTA management, not that RTA management had it's hands tied by outside forces.

 

This is how it works in business and politics.  Strong leaders make sure their sh!t is taken care of.  I've seen it time and time again in the business world and in the political world.  Company merges - who gets the FTE?  The strong leaders.  New legislation passes - who gets the earmark?  Strong leaders. 

 

The areas with strong leaders who can get others to support their cause get taken care of.

 

If superman is running the RTA, we wouldn't have experienced the drastic budget cuts.  Ohio would have instead been among the Michigan, Minnesota, Illinois, North Carolina, New York, Pennsylvania, etc. who had significant increases in their public transit funding.

 

OK folks, time for a short history lesson:

 

* In the late 1990s, the federal government cut operating funding for all transit agencies except for those with service areas having 250,000 people or less. In exchange, the feds increased capital funding for public transit.

 

* In response, numerous states increased their operating funding for public transit, in some cases the increases were dramatic such as in Michigan, Minnesota, Illinois, North Carolina, New York, Pennsylvania, etc.

 

* Ohio cut its funding for public transit operations 75 percent during the same period.

 

* Ohio transit agencies were forced to rely almost entirely on local funding.

 

* Ohio law requires transit agencies to be county-based. Most transit systems are in urbanized counties. Most urbanized counties are seeing their wealthiest residents move to new suburbs in "collar counties" along with their payroll taxes, property taxes and sales taxes.

 

* Transit agencies have seen their local sources of funding drop 5-20 percent in recent years while fuel costs have skyrocketed.

 

The moral of the story:  Under the above conditions, you could have a transit superman running a transit agency in Ohio and he would still have to cut service, increase fares or both to have a balanced budget which is required by law.

 

My contention is KJP's bolded point is a RESULT of poor RTA management, not that RTA management had it's hands tied by outside forces.

 

This is how it works in business and politics.  Strong leaders make sure their sh!t is taken care of.  I've seen it time and time again in the business world and in the political world.  Company merges - who gets the FTE?  The strong leaders.  New legislation passes - who gets the earmark?  Strong leaders. 

 

The areas with strong leaders who can get others to support their cause get taken care of.

 

If superman is running the RTA, we wouldn't have experienced the drastic budget cuts.  Ohio would have instead been among the Michigan, Minnesota, Illinois, North Carolina, New York, Pennsylvania, etc. who had significant increases in their public transit funding.

 

 

How can any General Manager (of any transit agency) tell the state & federal government they should NOT TO CUT transit funding??

 

I'm all for strong arming someone, but a public agency needs to remember the hand that feeds them.

OK folks, time for a short history lesson:

 

* In the late 1990s, the federal government cut operating funding for all transit agencies except for those with service areas having 250,000 people or less. In exchange, the feds increased capital funding for public transit.

 

* In response, numerous states increased their operating funding for public transit, in some cases the increases were dramatic such as in Michigan, Minnesota, Illinois, North Carolina, New York, Pennsylvania, etc.

 

* Ohio cut its funding for public transit operations 75 percent during the same period.

 

* Ohio transit agencies were forced to rely almost entirely on local funding.

 

* Ohio law requires transit agencies to be county-based. Most transit systems are in urbanized counties. Most urbanized counties are seeing their wealthiest residents move to new suburbs in "collar counties" along with their payroll taxes, property taxes and sales taxes.

 

* Transit agencies have seen their local sources of funding drop 5-20 percent in recent years while fuel costs have skyrocketed.

 

The moral of the story: Under the above conditions, you could have a transit superman running a transit agency in Ohio and he would still have to cut service, increase fares or both to have a balanced budget which is required by law.

 

My contention is KJP's bolded point is a RESULT of poor RTA management, not that RTA management had it's hands tied by outside forces.

 

This is how it works in business and politics. Strong leaders make sure their sh!t is taken care of. I've seen it time and time again in the business world and in the political world. Company merges - who gets the FTE? The strong leaders. New legislation passes - who gets the earmark? Strong leaders.

 

The areas with strong leaders who can get others to support their cause get taken care of.

 

If superman is running the RTA, we wouldn't have experienced the drastic budget cuts. Ohio would have instead been among the Michigan, Minnesota, Illinois, North Carolina, New York, Pennsylvania, etc. who had significant increases in their public transit funding.

 

 

How can any General Manager (of any transit agency) tell the state & federal government they should NOT TO CUT transit funding??

 

I'm all for strong arming someone, but a public agency needs to remember the hand that feeds them.

 

The same way people from Michigan, Minnesota, Illinois, North Carolina, New York, Pennsylvania, etc did it.  Make your reason for needing funding be more important than the other public agencies lobbying for funding.  State your case (effectively) for the need for public transit.

 

It also points to the leadership of the City of Cleveland for allowing the city to reach the economic state it's presently in.

Wait.  so RTA isn't doing any of that?  Come on people.  you make it seem like a STATE AGENCY can snap there fingers and bam, money falls out the sky!

 

Since you mention those specific states, do you have historical information on what money they received (all cases) year over year and what their states transportation budget/spending was during that same period?

 

Lets see it in black and white.

Wait.  so RTA isn't doing any of that?  Come on people.  you make it seem like a STATE AGENCY can snap there fingers and bam, money falls out the sky!

 

Where is your proof that they are doing that?  Where is the additional funding from the state of Ohio?

 

Since you mention those specific states, do you have historical information on what money they received (all cases) year over year and what their states transportation budget/spending was during that same period?

 

I am taking KJP's word for it as he pointed to those states as state that increased their public transit fund after the federal gov't cut them while Ohio decreased.  This is a point you agreed upon and thanked KJP for making, yet now when I'm presenting a different argument using these facts you're asking me to prove them?  Prove to me they didn't happen.  I quite comfotable taking the word of a professional in the transit industry that these are accurate facts.

 

Wait.  so RTA isn't doing any of that?  Come on people.  you make it seem like a STATE AGENCY can snap there fingers and bam, money falls out the sky!

 

Where is your proof that they are doing that?  Where is the additional funding from the state of Ohio?

 

Since you mention those specific states, do you have historical information on what money they received (all cases) year over year and what their states transportation budget/spending was during that same period?

 

I am taking KJP's word for it as he pointed to those states as state that increased their public transit fund after the federal gov't cut them while Ohio decreased.  This is a point you agreed upon and thanked KJP for making, yet now when I'm presenting a different argument using these facts you're asking me to prove them?  Prove to me they didn't happen.  I quite comfotable taking the word of a professional in the transit industry that these are accurate facts.

 

 

Funding has been cut?  right?  You've made these claims.  I'm asking you to enlighten me  ;)

 

Again, I'd like to see year over year information.  I dont care who provides it.

 

 

One city cannot change Ohio's anti-urban policy of the last 30-50 years.

 

You can try to blame the city's leaders. Let me know how that works out for you.

Jesus, can we cut off this back and forth "you give me proof!", "no, YOU give me proof" crap before we spend another dozen comments on the Tweedledee and Tweedledum show?

Jesus, can we cut off this back and forth "you give me proof!", "no, YOU give me proof" crap before we spend another dozen comments on the Tweedledee and Tweedledum show?

Amen!!!

KJP.  I thank you for that History lesson.  Some folks - yeah I'm looking at you 327 - have "convenient" amnesia.

My understanding is that RTA has discussed actively spending (someone's) money on studies for additional BRT (Buckeye and 55th come to mind), and that nobody is forcing them to do this.  My understanding is also that once per month I buy a pass from some clownish mockery of a fare machine that has RTA's name on it.  If these understandings are factually incorrect, then please by all means give me a hard time.  Wait-- on second thought, don't.

 

Glad you mentioned this... why the hell is RTA studying BRT on Buckeye?  This is a narrow street and has, historically, light bus traffic because the street parallels and is a few blocks away from the main trunk, high-speed portion of the Blue & Green Rapid lines, which sucks the lion's share from both Buckeye and Woodland/Larchmere (11 & 12) bus routes.  This makes absolutely no sense  ... Unless, of course, this feeds Joe Calabrese's long term goal of converting our rail transit system to buses; which would not entirely surprise me...

 

But again, returning to 327's point, who authorized this Buckeye/BRT study especially from a transit system that's crying broke and cutting bus and rail services left and right?  While I'm of course sympathetic to the gross govt underfunding and even agree w/ Calabrese's advocacy for capitalizing fuel costs in order to allow Federal subsidy, I have zero confidence in the leadership or vision of Joe C. who has clearly established himself the foe of any transit that involves rail (including Amtrak 3-C)..

KJP.  I thank you for that History lesson.  Some folks - yeah I'm looking at you 327 - have "convenient" amnesia.

My understanding is that RTA has discussed actively spending (someone's) money on studies for additional BRT (Buckeye and 55th come to mind), and that nobody is forcing them to do this.  My understanding is also that once per month I buy a pass from some clownish mockery of a fare machine that has RTA's name on it.  If these understandings are factually incorrect, then please by all means give me a hard time.  Wait-- on second thought, don't.

 

Glad you mentioned this... why the hell is RTA studying BRT on Buckeye?  This is a narrow street and has, historically, light bus traffic because the street parallels and is a few blocks away from the main trunk, high-speed portion of the Blue & Green Rapid lines, which sucks the lion's share from both Buckeye and Woodland/Larchmere (11 & 12) bus routes.  This makes absolutely no sense  ... Unless, of course, this feeds Joe Calabrese's long term goal of converting our rail transit system to buses; which would not entirely surprise me...

 

But again, returning to 327's point, who authorized this Buckeye/BRT study especially from a transit system that's crying broke and cutting bus and rail services left and right?  While I'm of course sympathetic to the gross govt underfunding and even agree w/ Calabrese's advocacy for capitalizing fuel costs in order to allow Federal subsidy, I have zero confidence in the leadership or vision of Joe C. who has clearly established himself the foe of any transit that involves rail (including Amtrak 3-C)..

 

Now, you've stated what you feel and gave points. 

 

However, if I'm not mistaken Joe was in congress and at the state capital urging for more money and came out in favor of the 3C.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Two points. First, RTA does a horrible job of marketing. The Los Angeles transit system launched a marketing campaign with billboards along highways, newspaper ads, signs on buses, etc--all urging people to take public transit and promoting the advantages of doing so. Why can't RTA do something like this? Everytime I'm stuck on 480 at rush hour I wonder if there can't be some way to make the trip by public transit. But there's no effort on RTA's part to change my habits. Why aren't they pushing political and business leaders to use public transit and then developing a marketing campaign around that? Why aren't they promoting some of the federal incentives to increase transit use? Second, there should be at least a few crosstown bus routes that allow you to get from the east side of Cleveland to the west side without transferring. The most obvious routes would seem to be one that ran the length of Lorain Avenue and then Carnegie (thus connecting a major employer, the Cleveland Clinic, with the west side) or a Detroit/Superior/St Clair Aves route. Frankly, for a bus ride from Ohio City to Cleveland State University to require a transfer is ridiculous.

Two points. First, RTA does a horrible job of marketing. The Los Angeles transit system launched a marketing campaign with billboards along highways, newspaper ads, signs on buses, etc--all urging people to take public transit and promoting the advantages of doing so. Why can't RTA do something like this? Everytime I'm stuck on 480 at rush hour I wonder if there can't be some way to make the trip by public transit. But there's no effort on RTA's part to change my habits. Why aren't they pushing political and business leaders to use public transit and then developing a marketing campaign around that? Why aren't they promoting some of the federal incentives to increase transit use? Second, there should be at least a few crosstown bus routes that allow you to get from the east side of Cleveland to the west side without transferring. The most obvious routes would seem to be one that ran the length of Lorain Avenue and then Carnegie (thus connecting a major employer, the Cleveland Clinic, with the west side) or a Detroit/Superior/St Clair Aves route. Frankly, for a bus ride from Ohio City to Cleveland State University to require a transfer is ridiculous.

 

$$$$

I was hoping for a more thoughtful response then that.

dogsandcats, clvlndr, shs96, grumpy, avogadro... you're all making tremendously strong points.   

 

And I thank you for doing so.

Two points. First, RTA does a horrible job of marketing. The Los Angeles transit system launched a marketing campaign with billboards along highways, newspaper ads, signs on buses, etc--all urging people to take public transit and promoting the advantages of doing so. Why can't RTA do something like this? Everytime I'm stuck on 480 at rush hour I wonder if there can't be some way to make the trip by public transit. But there's no effort on RTA's part to change my habits. Why aren't they pushing political and business leaders to use public transit and then developing a marketing campaign around that? Why aren't they promoting some of the federal incentives to increase transit use? Second, there should be at least a few crosstown bus routes that allow you to get from the east side of Cleveland to the west side without transferring. The most obvious routes would seem to be one that ran the length of Lorain Avenue and then Carnegie (thus connecting a major employer, the Cleveland Clinic, with the west side) or a Detroit/Superior/St Clair Aves route. Frankly, for a bus ride from Ohio City to Cleveland State University to require a transfer is ridiculous.

 

$$$$

 

OK.  There's no money to do anything. Give up, folks!

Two points. First, RTA does a horrible job of marketing. The Los Angeles transit system launched a marketing campaign with billboards along highways, newspaper ads, signs on buses, etc--all urging people to take public transit and promoting the advantages of doing so. Why can't RTA do something like this? Everytime I'm stuck on 480 at rush hour I wonder if there can't be some way to make the trip by public transit. But there's no effort on RTA's part to change my habits. Why aren't they pushing political and business leaders to use public transit and then developing a marketing campaign around that? Why aren't they promoting some of the federal incentives to increase transit use? Second, there should be at least a few crosstown bus routes that allow you to get from the east side of Cleveland to the west side without transferring. The most obvious routes would seem to be one that ran the length of Lorain Avenue and then Carnegie (thus connecting a major employer, the Cleveland Clinic, with the west side) or a Detroit/Superior/St Clair Aves route. Frankly, for a bus ride from Ohio City to Cleveland State University to require a transfer is ridiculous.

 

$$$$

 

OK.  There's no money to do anything. Give up, folks!

 

Hush.  How many times does KJP, Jerry or other need to answer the above questions!  Just read thru this thread.

No hey, I'm agreeing with you.  There's no money to do anything, and no way to get new money.  So the situation can only inexorably deteriorate.  Everybody better buy a car, or a bike if you can't afford a car.