Leadership at RTA simply must change. That could mean different people doing the leading, or it could mean a change in the way the current leadership views its responsibilities... both the nuts & bolts aspect and the visionary aspect. There needs to be a clean break from the way things have progressed over the last decade. This community cannot accept any more substandard offerings, embarassing blunders, or missed opportunities. There is no excuse for refusing to ACCEPT THE EXISTENCE of clear national standards, when our system falls so ridiculously short of them. Shameful.

 

AMEN!!!  RTA, would you please employ the philosophiy of 327? Hire him!

Question - I work at 6th and Superior and need to get to 15609 Madison Ave in Lakewood. Is there a bus that runs from downtown to my destination? A friend said I could use their car if I need too, but I would rather take a bus if possible. Also I would be doing this on my lunch hour, so if it requires a transfer or the round trip would take greater than an hour an 15 minutes I'll be taking the car.

Google transit says take the 26 and walk 2/3 mile, but it looks like it would definitely take you longer than and hour fifteen.

RTA's trip planner says to take the 26 into Lakewood, it goes down Detroit, and to get off at Detroit and Arthur, but then you'll have to walk 12 minutes to your destination.

 

http://tinyurl.com/yctjd7g

Scratch that, you can take the 25 (don't know why google doesn't suggest it).  But that will still take you at least an hour and a half.

RTA has a bus that actually goes down Madison, but the trip planner says take the Detroit bus and walk.  Spendid.  I lived in Lakewood for years, and no you cannot do a lunch hour round trip via bus.  You would need a rapid for that sort of thing.

If I had more time I would take the bus, but unfortunately it looks like I'll have to take the car. Thanks doctabroc, rockandroller & 327!!

Yep.  I tried taking the bus to metro from my office on public square for a doctor appointment and was gone almost 3 hours for a 15 minute appointment.  Car from now on.

Yep.  I tried taking the bus to metro from my office on public square for a doctor appointment and was gone almost 3 hours for a 15 minute appointment.  Car from now on.

Holy crud . . . . . Metro has excellent transit service, by Cleveland standards at least: the 20A, 35, and 81, all of which run at least every half hour during midday.  If you can't get to Metro and back from downtown in just over an hour, at any time of day or night, then something is terribly, terribly wrong.  Can you provide more details, including the date and time, and maybe someone at RTA can investigate?

A few musings on trip planning (since I was the champion and chief implementer of getting RTA's data on Google):

 

the trip planning process' outputs are only as good, reliable, and reproducible as its inputs; based on the data supplied, I wasn't exactly sure what was being requested (6th & Superior? is that East 6th or West 6th?), when it was being requested for ("lunch hour" could be noon? 1:00? 2:00?), and whether arrival or departure time was being prioritized, i.e., did the requestor have a specific time in mind for keeping an appointment, or was it more important to leave immediately and avoid waiting in the snow and cold? these are all important details, and while assumptions can be made, differences in those assumptions (inputs) will yield different prioritization of the returned plans (outputs)

 

to the idea that Google Transit didn't suggest the #25, I just ran the trip with some assumptions (W 6 departure point, leaving at noon), and the #25 was the top-prioritized variant, with two #26/walking combos suggested as alternatives; change the option to arrival by 12:30pm, and the variants change, since the #26/walking combo is graded as the "best" option to minimize dead time on either end, but the #25 is still a secondary option, although it departs at 11:13 and arrives at 11:46 (45 minutes early); the next #25 would be at 12:13/12:46, and would thus cause you to arrive late by the options defined, which is why it's not offered

 

what I'm getting at is that trip planning is, as I've stated before, as much art as science -- every planning algorithm is somewhat different (the algorithm is the "secret sauce" that makes one planning tool "better" than another), every traveler's acceptable nuances are different ("I'd like to be somewhere by 12:30pm, but 12:45pm is still acceptable", "I'm willing to walk, but not more than 10 minutes, and not up any step hills" - try conveying those ideas to a computer!), and this is still, for all its advances, an evolving technology

 

to the comment about "you would need a rapid for that sort of thing", a rapid along Madison might work well for this one instance, assuming the station was located nearby, but to satisfy every instance, at every time, and make sure that there's an effective grid of transportation options, you'd also need a high-density urban environment, and effective funding to ensure adequate frequencies, and good planning to minimize the need for/maximize the efficiency of transfers, and a TOD policy that emphasizes development near stops... I could go on, by my point is that it's all part of a "system", there is no one silver bullet

 

I'm glad many of you are taking the time to explore transit as an option, to use it when it's viable, and to use the tools that we've worked to provide you with

This was awhile ago, it's hard to remember the details.  It was summer, and very hot.  I looked up all the buses that went to/from Metro and took the first one that came to the stop near my office; I had to wait about 20 minutes there prior to it arriving.  It stopped at almost every stop between public square and metro.  When i drive to metro, it takes me literally about 7 minutes.  It took us like 20-25 minutes to get to metro.  I went in, had my appointment and left in about 15 or 20 minutes.  I waited at the stop with another woman and her child, we were both waiting there at least 25 minutes and wondering to each other WTF the hold up was.  Her bus finally came but it wasn't one of the ones I had written down as being one go to back to public square so I waited another at least 20 or 25 minutes until one came that I could take back.  I remember thinking I had been waiting like 45 minutes. Another 20-25 minutes to get back to public square with all the stops.  Ok so not 3 hours, but it was a really, really long time.  If I drive, I can get there and back in 30-45 minutes, not 2-2.5 hours.

The main streets in Lakewood (and Cleveland) were specifically designed to have rail service along them.  Not necessarily rapid service, but c'mon, this entire place is already set up for TOD.  We just need to bring back the "T" element, which is currently lacking.

 

And R&R's story is really quite common.  You need to plan for unreasonable travel times on short trips, especially if you're going north-south of if you're crossing the river.  Trip-planning algorithms are typically too simple and too optimistic.  They expect the schedules to be more or less accurate, which is physically impossible.  The more stops on a route, the more lights on that street, the higher the variation in trip times and arrivals. 

 

Decreased route frequency heightens the potential damage.  If the first leg of your journey hits one light too many, you might have just lost an hour.  This is why adding transfers to the mix makes trip planning a bit of a lost cause, which in turn is why cross-town routes are so important to people.

I don't question anyone's hellish experiences on RTA . . . I do question whether those experiences are truly necessary, in light of the fact that, supposedly (in this particular case), three separate bus lines serve the site in question on half-hour intervals.  Obviously that did not happen in this particular case.  Why?  Maybe a bus broke down or something.  If so, why?  Aren't they maintained on a regular basis, so as to make unplanned outages exceedingly rare?  They certainly aren't, in my experience.

 

Sure, travel times are hard to predict, but why don't the schedules at least try to take that into account?  When the W. 14th entrance to the Innerbelt was closed it took months if not years for the 23 schedule to be adjusted accordingly.  Experienced riders knew the northbound trip would always be about 10 minutes late, and planned accordingly, but how would someone new to that route or to the area - or for that matter Google Transit or RTA's own trip planner - possibly know that, if it wasn't reflected in the schedule???

 

And yes, 327, you exactly "get" my reasons for wanting more crosstown, through-routed, and longer-distance express service.  It's hard enough to plan a trip involving two buses or vehicles.  It's next to impossible to plan one with more, at least without taking a half-day off work or more, which most people can't afford to do more than rarely if ever.

 

And it's an excellent point that Cleveland and the inner suburbs were laid out during the streetcar era, and thus inherently designed for TOD.  To the extent that these areas still have a population density comparable to that in the past, there IS potential for high transit use, but there's also a chicken-and-egg problem in that people will not ride until acceptable service is offered, but acceptable service can't be offered until there's sufficient ridership, and so forth.  Something has to break that cycle.  My guess is that it will be higher energy prices and a resulting return to a more urban, dense, and thus transit-friendly pattern of business and residential development.  I wish we didn't have to wait for something so dramatic and so potentially devastating to so many people's lives for this to happen, because sustainable, transit-oriented development has numerous benefits, to everyone, above and beyond the mere fact that it saves energy.

 

 

Chicken and egg?  No.  The trolley lines were ripped out at the beginning of our mass exodus, not the end of it.  This may not prove causation... but it tends to disprove causation on the other end.  That is, it eliminates the idea that our former transit system was simply responding to demographic shifts when it vanished. 

 

As soon as the transit was removed, the city's layout became dysfunctional.  That layout will remain dysfunctional for as long as its rail system remains absent.  The rail system was never a luxury and it never will be... it was and is a vital component without which we're screwed.

I'm not saying it was a "chicken and egg" problem then, but rather that it is now.  High energy prices will almost certainly reverse the "mass exodus" problem, but not overnight and not without substantial pain.  But there is evidence from other cities that rail, done well, does spur transit-friendly development.  Our existing rail doesn't do this because frankly it was not designed to.  The Shaker lines were designed to maximize land prices because that's what the Van Swearingens wanted; the Red Line was designed to be as cheap as possible and thus re-used existing ROW, which served areas that were mainly industrial at the time and are largely abandoned now.  That does not mean that rail DONE PROPERLY would not have the same benefits here that it has elsewhere.  Even the HL seems to be a catalyst for planned redevelopment projects in Midtown, although its service falls far short of what I'd consider true BRT, much less what could have been achieved via grade-separated rail.

My point is that if it wasn't a chicken & egg thing before, it still isn't.  We've already got the Oriented Development, but we can't expect it to start filling back in without the pre-existence of the same type of Transit that spurred its creation in the first place.  We can't expect it to happen in reverse, with the population coming first and then waiting patiently for transit... there's no precedent for that, in fact the precedent is the exact opposite of that.

 

I'm talking streetcars on the main commercial corridors.  Just.  Like.  Before.  Until we have a plan to begin re-installing the streetcars, we really don't have a plan to bring population back to an inner city that was specifically designed to have them.  We can't reinvent this wheel without bulldozing the entire city and starting over. 

 

The Rapids we currently have are a separate issue, because they serve a different purpose.  Also because, for the most part, they do not already have associated TOD.  But in general, we have miles and miles of existing TOD just waiting to blow up in a gas explosion, because it's not commercially viable in the absense of robust mass transit. 

 

I submit to you that we're being asked to view the entire issue backwards.  Maybe I'm wrong.  But look at this place, look at the devastation.  What if I'm not wrong?

I'd love to have the streetcars back someday, but for now, I'd settle for regular, reliable, and frequent bus service.  Of course this doesn't fully solve the problem, but at least it is a baby step in the right direction.  If I understand what you're saying - and please correct me if I don't - rail in some form would demonstrate an investment in future transit service, and the closest thing possible to a guarantee of continued service since operating costs in theory are lower than capital costs; this guarantee is much more likely to spur repopulation and redevelopment than increased bus service which could just as easily be reduced again.  And I agree; it's just that if we couldn't get rail on Euclid Ave., which more desperately needed it than anyplace else, which could have funded it more readily than anyplace else, and which already was disrupted to nearly the same degree that an elevated or underground heavy rail line would have required, all simply to have a slightly faster #6 bus, then it's going to be a VERY hard sell in the current economic climate to get true rail, or anything better than good bus service, anyplace else.

 

It's just endemic to our current culture, however unfortunate or short-sighted it may be, that people want what they want NOW, not later; they are unwilling to invest even in themselves, much less their families and their communities.  That's the problem that I really don't think I can solve unless energy prices reach and then exceed, for a protracted time, their inflation-adjusted historical highs from the 1970s.  I don't want that to happen, for a lot of reasons, but I think it will, and I think some good will come along with the bad, possibly including the rail and the TOD that should result.

rta is also currently testing a sms based schedule information tool for mobile devices, and has made data available in google transit format, which makes it widely available to outside developers as well as google maps.  if anyone knows a developer, it would be great to get someone to extend one of the apps.

 

Good news...  AnyStop designed by BusBrothers is now offering a free Cleveland RTA phone app for android phones.  It isn't realtime (for Cleveland), but it looks like it synchs with google transit feed to offer up to date schedule information, and you can customize your stops.  You can download it from the app store or check out their website:

http://anystopapp.com/applications/

 

 

 

Hi everyone, I just thought I would post this here as it may be of related interest to the thread. I am in Sydney currently, and the story is below....

 

Sydney gets new transport ticket system

 

A new public transport ticketing regime for the greater Sydney region is no substitute for the integrated system that the NSW government promised long ago, the opposition says.

From April 18, the new MyZone system will reduce the number of travel zones from as many as 20 to just five.

Commuters will have the option of buying the new MyBus, MyTrain and MyFerry tickets or a MyMulti ticket that will enable commuters to travel on all three modes of transport.

 

For the complete story, visit the link below.....

 

http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/local/6746851/sydney-gets-new-transport-ticket-system/

 

 

This is a truly amazing video that was posted last week on YouTube.......

 

 

I am in awe. Please share it far and wide.

RTA to cut some service on April 4 but has adjusted some proposed reductions

By Karen Farkas, The Plain Dealer

February 09, 2010, 3:35PM

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio - Riders spoke and RTA listened -- up to a point.

 

While the agency still intends to eliminate 12 percent of its bus routes on April 4 because of low ridership or because other routes are nearby, it will keep and adjust some service after concerns were raised by riders affected by the changes.

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010/02/rta_to_cut_some_service_on_apr.html

 

Most interesting part:

 

The Euclid Avenue HealthLine will be extended to the University Circle rapid station during rush hours. It will connect to routes, including two from Cleveland Heights that will end at that station instead of going to downtown Cleveland the way they do now.

 

Jet, Jerry, is this accurate?  Or is that the Cleveland Hts routes will be extended to meet up with the HealthLine.  If the article is accurate, how exactly will this work?  Thanks for any clarification!

Twitter post (edited for clarity)

 

RT @joecimperman: Did you know ODOT spends more money annually cutting highway median grass than on public transit? Come Friday to City Hall Committee Room at 1130 AM for a hearing.

No. 78 West 98th-Puritas: Realign to serve West 117th north of Lorain.

 

YAY!! I was very worried that West 117th would lose all bus service. I use this to get to the Rapid station, Giant Eagle or Target.

RTA to cut some service on April 4 but has adjusted some proposed reductions

By Karen Farkas, The Plain Dealer

February 09, 2010, 3:35PM

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio - Riders spoke and RTA listened -- up to a point.

 

While the agency still intends to eliminate 12 percent of its bus routes on April 4 because of low ridership or because other routes are nearby, it will keep and adjust some service after concerns were raised by riders affected by the changes.

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010/02/rta_to_cut_some_service_on_apr.html

 

Most interesting part:

 

The Euclid Avenue HealthLine will be extended to the University Circle rapid station during rush hours. It will connect to routes, including two from Cleveland Heights that will end at that station instead of going to downtown Cleveland the way they do now.

 

Jet, Jerry, is this accurate? Or is that the Cleveland Hts routes will be extended to meet up with the HealthLine. If the article is accurate, how exactly will this work? Thanks for any clarification!

 

That doesn't make any sense.  Why would you add 10 minutes to the UC-Downtown commute on the Healthline???  Why not bring the 7 and 32 to loop around E. 105th?  Sorry, RTA.  If losing the 9 forces me to take the Healthline which would then take my commute up to at least 45 minutes, I'm going back to driving.

^Not sure if you saw, but in the linked list of changes to their plans: No. 9 Mayfield: retain some rush hour trips to Cleveland instead of ending the route at the University Circle Station.   Hopefully that will help with your commute.

I'm happy that the 39 and 239 were partially spared (I'm sure service will be less frequent and more crowded, but that still beats no service at all).  I do feel bad for others who will be impacted much more than myself.  And I still get the feeling that we are degenerating into a "patchwork" of unconnected, unrelated, uncoordinated routes rather than a unified system with an integrated overall design.

you get what you pay for... and in ohio that isn't much.

Twitter post (edited for clarity)

 

RT @joecimperman: Did you know ODOT spends more money annually cutting highway median grass than on public transit? Come Friday to City Hall Committee Room at 1130 AM for a hearing.

 

One of the biggest jokes of wasting money--on median grass!

^Not sure if you saw, but in the linked list of changes to their plans: No. 9 Mayfield: retain some rush hour trips to Cleveland instead of ending the route at the University Circle Station.   Hopefully that will help with your commute.

 

I go the opposite direction (from downtown to UC), so I'm pretty sure my 9 isn't gonna be spared.....  And I was okay with taking the Healthline, but if you're gonna add at least 10 extra minutes to that trip.....

No. 78 West 98th-Puritas: Realign to serve West 117th north of Lorain.

 

YAY!! I was very worried that West 117th would lose all bus service. I use this to get to the Rapid station, Giant Eagle or Target.

Yeah, right.  We all know you take your car to Giant Eagle or Target.  :wink2:

Discontinued routes or route segments:

No. 4 Wade Park.

No.7 Euclid Heights-Monticello: west of University Circle Station.

No. 12 Woodland.

No. 17 East 49th-Canal-Rockside.

No. 20A West 25th-State: south of Pleasant Valley.

No. 20Z Metroparks Zoo (seasonal).

No. 25 Madison: east of West 117th-Madison Station.

No. 32 Cedar: west of University Circle Station.

No. 35 West 25th-Broadview: on Royalton and KenMar.

No. 45 Ridge: south of Tri-C West/Pleasant Valley.

No. 51 Pearl: on Dow Circle.

No. 51F Strongsville Park-and-Ride (No. 51 will serve its area).

No. 52 Westgate.

No. 75 North Olmsted: east of West Park Station and on Lorain between Great Northern and Country Club.

No. 76F Turney.

No. 88 Broadway: Northfield.

No. 145 York Flyer.

No. 246 Westlake: west of the Park-and-Ride lot.

No. 263 North Olmsted: west and south of the Park-and-Ride lot.

145 seems silly as those flyers are filled every day.  If they are counting on ALL moving to a slow bus down Fulton (including bridge detour), they may be surprised.

 

Seems like biggest winner in RTA's revenue woes are the downtown parking lot owners.

Seems like biggest winner in RTA's revenue woes are the downtown parking lot owners.

 

You got that right.

I will continue to drive to a park-and-ride.  Still cheaper then driving downtown (gas/lot fees) and i get some time to listen to podcasts from howstuffworks.com

This just completely cements our having to stay in the areas of town we don't want to live, because there's no way I'm going back to the bus with all these cuts, and we still can't afford to have me driving in all the time (plus I hate driving in).  So we're forced to stay along the redline, which are not desired areas for us to live in unfortunately.  Oh well.

This just completely cements our having to stay in the areas of town we don't want to live, because there's no way I'm going back to the bus with all these cuts, and we still can't afford to have me driving in all the time (plus I hate driving in). So we're forced to stay along the redline, which are not desired areas for us to live in unfortunately. Oh well.

 

Oh man, you are opening yourself up to a lot of suggestions of where you should move, which you may or may not enjoy...  Seriously though, that totally stinks for you- I hope you are able to find something that meets your needs.

I hope articulated buses come back to the 26 on the weekends...they'll be needed, especially come summertime. 

 

If I'm headed downtown on a Saturday or Sunday, I'll just drive to the Rapid after weekend service to the 55 is cut...the 26 is miserably slow during the day. 

move near a park-and-ride (Westlake, Fairview Park, North Olmsted, Strongsville)

 

The strongsville P&R, which is nearest me, is a nightmare commute as the buses are so overfilled every day that it required standing both ways, which was just really not fun, especially when you haul a lot of crap back and forth to work every day, like I do.  And I'm not anxious to make a move to somewhere that would require me to be dependent on the bus since they keep cutting and cutting and cutting the buses.  The bus is already so much worse than the train because it's subject to the same delays and problems that the highway traffic is subject to, except you can't exit and use the bathroom at a gas station if your commute is taking 2 hours for some reason, you're just stuck there, like a prison cell.  I just can't go back to that kind of a commute, I will go back to driving first.

 

 

Folks, let's keep on topic - thanks.

Back on topic - I know at the brookpark rapid station in the mornings, there is a woman who quickly goes on the train when it arrives with a trash bag and gathers up obvious/quick trash and exits again before the train departs.

 

Does this occur at any other stops at any other times during the day?  I think this is MOST needed in the afternoon/early evening.  When I get on in the afternoon when I have to leave early for whatever reason, the train is always horribly cluttered with food trash/litter. 

 

Absent having an actual person do this, which I can imagine is costly, what would the feasibility be of at least putting a garbage can on board?  Say, where the luggage is supposed to go, since I never see anybody actually putting luggage in there?

^ I have seen people place luggage there, and have used it to place my bag if it's a standing room only train, used to be a bit more common.  However, I think the idea of having a garbage container on the train would be a great idea.

Back on topic - I know at the brookpark rapid station in the mornings, there is a woman who quickly goes on the train when it arrives with a trash bag and gathers up obvious/quick trash and exits again before the train departs.

 

Does this occur at any other stops at any other times during the day?  I think this is MOST needed in the afternoon/early evening.  When I get on in the afternoon when I have to leave early for whatever reason, the train is always horribly cluttered with food trash/litter. 

 

Absent having an actual person do this, which I can imagine is costly, what would the feasibility be of at least putting a garbage can on board?  Say, where the luggage is supposed to go, since I never see anybody actually putting luggage in there?

 

I certainly have seen those luggage racks used on multiple occasions by travelers to and from the airport, so even if their use is inconsistent, it's not to say it's nonexistent.

 

While a trash receptacle of some kind would be a welcome addition, it's unfortunately a bit of a logistical nightmare in this (and I hate, hate, HATE to use this an an excuse, but it is the reality) post-9/11 world. Trash receptacles of any kind in any vaguely public space are routinely scrutinized and debated as potential locations for explosives, and the container itself needs to be evaluated for shrapnel-causing potential. I've seen locations where trash receptacles have had their lids welded or bolted shut due to security concerns.

I suppose that's true, but it's not as if trash containers have been done away with all together everywhere else.  I mean, if someone's going to blow up the train, they could just as easily leave it under the seat, no?  What do other transit systems do?  Do none of them have trash containers on board? If not, do they have people going in and cleaning up? Is this a possibility?  Perhaps it could be a double duty of the transit police as they "roam?"

In DC they do not have trash receptacles on trains, but at the end of the lines (bus and trains) they driver does a run through and picks up papers and trash before returning to the route. 

 

Post 9/11 they pulled trash cans from inside the stations due to the possibilities of bombs, until they were able to equip them with bomb proof canisters. 

FYI RTA, funds were available to all transit systems for this purpose. 

 

R@R.  In DC if there is a bag left on the train, bus or in a station, they literally evacuate the place until they find out what it is. 

Also, there is no eating, drinking or smoking allowed in or around any Metro station or on any bus in DC. Its amazing how that cuts down on the trash. Both Metro staff and passengers are very quick to enforce this rule. There was a big uproar several years ago because a high school student was arrested for having a candy bar in a Metro station.

The robot-lady voice was back on the redline yesterday morning, but then the overly-friendly guy was on the overhead on the way home.  Are the driver's able to pick which "voice" at their discretion or something?  I am not a fan of Overly Friendly Guy, but he's better than Robot Lady, who I thought had gone for good.

We've had more robot lady recently on the Shaker lines, but at least her accuracy is improving.

I am told these voices and their controls comes from the communications center, and in the past, that is where I have gone to make on-the-fly changes.

Back on topic - I know at the brookpark rapid station in the mornings, there is a woman who quickly goes on the train when it arrives with a trash bag and gathers up obvious/quick trash and exits again before the train departs. Does this occur at any other stops at any other times during the day?  I think this is MOST needed in the afternoon/early evening.  When I get on in the afternoon when I have to leave early for whatever reason, the train is always horribly cluttered with food trash/litter. 

 

At the end of the line, as the operator walks through the train to get to the other end, he or she is supposed to check for lost and found items. Some of them also pick up newspapers, etc. if time permits.

 

 

FYI to Jerry and Jet, the system map posted on the RTA site still shows the circulators and probably some other routes or segments no longer in operation.  I know RTA incurs an expense or eats up man hours every time it updates the map, and I know routes are going to change again come April, but it is definitely not great to have outdated info on one of your primary communication channels.  Then again, you guys probably know exactly how many times people actually download the thing and might tell me you can trace 2/3 of the downloads to UO members procrastinating at work :).