The Amalgamated Transit Union is living in a dream world. They have rejected offers in other cities to cut or freeze their pay to save jobs and protect transit services (Lorain County immediately comes to mind).

 

A more rational and reasonable union, AFSCME, represents drivers and others at Stark County's transit system and were willing to take a pay cut.

 

I know that many RTA bus drivers are not happy with the ATU. Allow me to suggest that they call AFSCME for better representation.

 

DISCLAIMER: I have no affiliation with AFSCME or any transit union!

I am typically anti-union but I don't think you can pin all RTA's problems on the ATU.  Just most of them....

 

Population loss, sales tax revenue and the growing trend to flee further and further to outlying counties are killing the RTA. 

 

Many other big cities have transit unions that rival and exceed the increasingly absurd demands of our union, but their systems remain viable.  It will take some gutsy leadership to take on the union and return RTA to fiscal stability.  But it will also take visionary leadership of picking the right TOD  projects and returning neighborhoods to their former glory as places people want to live for their accessiblity and convenience.

 

$8/gallon gas might not hurt either.

Many other big cities have transit unions that rival and exceed the increasingly absurd demands of our union, but their systems remain viable.

 

Most transit agencies around the country are in at least as bad a shape financially as RTA (see the other thread here about non-Ohio transit agency finances). New, more stable sources of revenue combined with realistic labor demands are key factors for survival, especially when labor/personnel comprises 70% of transit agency budgets -- compared to about 50 percent for airlines or passenger railroads.

 

$8/gallon gas might not hurt either.

 

$4 gas was devastating to transit agency budgets; $8 gas would be deadly.

Many other big cities have transit unions that rival and exceed the increasingly absurd demands of our union, but their systems remain viable. 

 

Most transit agencies around the country are in at least as bad a shape financially as RTA (see the other thread here about non-Ohio transit agency finances). New, more stable sources of revenue combined with realistic labor demands are key factors for survival, especially when labor/personnel comprises 70% of transit agency budgets -- compared to about 50 percent for airlines or passenger railroads.

 

$8/gallon gas might not hurt either.

 

Um, $4 gas was devastating to transit agency budgets; $8 gas would be deadly.

 

I didn't realize labor was that portion of their budgets--thought it would be similar to rail/airlines?  Wow! 

 

Regarding the $8 gas--I was thinking it could make some people reconsider their McMansion and Expedition in Avon Lake, or at the least how they commute to downtown for work.

^Fares make up such a small portion of the budget that adding riders doesn't translate into significant added funds.

High population density hasn't saved transit agenices like those in New York City, Chicago or San Francisco from facing serious funding shortfalls either that were caused in large part by high gas prices. It's time to make the gas tax a percentage of the fuel price, rather than a fixed cents-per-gallon amount that hasn't changed since 1993....

Undoubtedly the union is just as bad, if not worse, as high gas prices when it comes to the health of RTA.  Gas prices fluctuate.  But the selfish union, with its inflated salaries, benefits and power is a constant... I say again, such a shame.

See the following if you haven't already.......

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,22318.msg475444.html#msg475444

It's time to flip the switch on to public transit at Ohio's statehouse.

 

If there is a will, there is a way, and we must generate the will together to make public transit funding a priority.  LEAP is reaching out to a diverse crowd--from faith-based and community leaders to transit riders and students, environmentalists, and advocates for the poor, elderly, and persons with disabilities, among others.  If you care about the state of public transit in Ohio, and live in the area, we want you there.  If you don't live in the area, think about whether your region needs a local transit coalition.

 

So, Please join us next Wednesday afternoon, or send your friends.  Let's get this party started!

 

Please print out and share this flier with others....

http://members.cox.net/corridorscampaign/Cuyahoga%20transit%20flyer.pdf

 

The Cuyahoga County Transit Coalition

First Organizational Meeting

April 15, 2010, 1:30-3pm

 

Linking Employment, Abilities & Potential

1468 West 25th Street

Cleveland, Ohio 44113

 

Come take this opportunity to join others interested in addressing

solutions for Cuyahoga County’s transit funding problem

 

Speaker confirmed:

Amanda Woodrum, Policy Matters Ohio, Chair of the statewide

“Save Transit Now” Coalition

 

RSVP: Donna Prease at LEAP

216-696-2716 x 114

Jet & Jerry, you guys are probably all over this already, but in case not, googlemaps is still showin the bus stops from the eliminated bus routes.  It properly shows no schedule info when you click on them, but it's still something they should probably fix.

 

I also notice that the system map on the RTA web site has not been updated to reflect this round of cuts, or even prior rounds.  Definitely worth doing now I would think.  I know RTA is super busy, but unless you have some weird union hoops to jump through (which you might), I'd think updating a map like that should be pretty quick and easy.  And well worth it.

 

Hope the transition to the new schedules has been going well for you guys.

Jet & Jerry, you guys are probably all over this already, but in case not, googlemaps is still showin the bus stops from the eliminated bus routes. It properly shows no schedule info when you click on them, but it's still something they should probably fix.

JetDog has said in the past that Google Maps updates monthly, so it probably will update soon.

I also notice that the system map on the RTA web site has not been updated to reflect this round of cuts, or even prior rounds. Definitely worth doing now I would think. I know RTA is super busy, but unless you have some weird union hoops to jump through (which you might), I'd think updating a map like that should be pretty quick and easy. And well worth it.

There is now a little pop up warning that the system wide map is updated annually when you click on the "RTA system map" link on RTA's page. Good Job RTA. Well, ok, a good job would be updating the map, but this is better than nothing.

Jet & Jerry, you guys are probably all over this already, but in case not, googlemaps is still showin the bus stops from the eliminated bus routes.  It properly shows no schedule info when you click on them, but it's still something they should probably fix.

 

I also notice that the system map on the RTA web site has not been updated to reflect this round of cuts, or even prior rounds.  Definitely worth doing now I would think.  I know RTA is super busy, but unless you have some weird union hoops to jump through (which you might), I'd think updating a map like that should be pretty quick and easy.  And well worth it.

 

Hope the transition to the new schedules has been going well for you guys.

 

Strap-

 

Thanks for the kind words. I did some spot checking, and I see what you mean about the stops still being listed. I know from prior experience that Google's data layer that shows the stops isn't necessarily updated as quickly or as often as the trip planning data. Google currently processes information from nearly 450 transit agencies worldwide, as has been going through some "growing pains" themselves lately.

 

I will certainly inquire with them as to when such an update might happen, but would not be surprised if it takes a week or more. Thankfully, as you noted, the stops correctly show no schedule data when clicked upon, and I know our crews have been working diligently to make sure all physical signs get removed in as timely a fashion as possible.

 

As far as the system map, I'll see where we stand on that. Just to give you some insight on that process, we have one extremely hard-working individual who is responsible for most of the printed products that get distributed to the riding public -- this means maps, schedules, Riders' Digests, many of the "car cards" displayed inside RTA vehicles, etc... I know we want to keep the map updated at least annually, and he and I are working on means to make the online product more current while ensuring accessibility for the broadest audience possible.

Complaints have already been brought up about the announcer guy on the rapid, but it's now getting so annoying it's starting to make me feel like my ears are bleeding.  Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse, now they have a woman who makes nearly constant, incredibly loud announcements the entire time you are waiting on the platform at Tower City.

 

Why does RTA think we need to be constantly bombarded with noise?  You literally cannot carry on any kind of cell phone conversation on the rapid anymore (I was always quiet on my phone, I swear!) because the noise from the overhead announcer interrupts the conversation and you have a continually broken connection where the person on the other end breaks up while talking because the overhead guy is talking at the same time. And you have to plug your ear with your free hand to hear what's being said since the guy is CONSTANTLY talking.  That cutesy announcement about how we all don't need to know what you're having for dinner has gotten me to the point of some deranged Stephen King character.  I feel like my face is melting off and I'm going to start spouting off in a guttural language and waving a giant cross back and forth at everyone screaming "MOVE" like Ben at the end of the Graduate.  I have heard more than one person say they are probably going to stop taking the rapid because of the constant noise bombardment, and now that fairer weather is (almost) here, I think I'm going to join them, at least for awhile, because I can't take it anymore.  The WAH-WAH-WAH of the pleasant lady's voice CONSTANTLY talking at Tower City is just the last straw.  You really don't need to thank everyone for choosing RTA every single time someone speaks.  They do not do this on any other transit system I've ridden in any other city.  They simply announce the next stop. A lot of times, this is done via an electronic sign and nothing else, so you can ride in quiet, or at least quietly talk to your neighbor or on the phone.  Forget reading.  You cannot concentrate on a story that you have to keep starting over and over as you are interrupted again and again by these lengthy and pointless announcements about the long list of bus connections at the next route, or what "points of interest" are coming up, like the Cudell Recretation Center (really? This is an attraction we have to mention?)  I cannot even hear my iPod over these people's voices unless it's turned up to a dangerous volume. 

 

I don't think I should have to wear earplugs in order to ride public transit without being driven insane by the constant noise bombardment from announcements.  What can we do to make the madness stop?  It is COMPELTELY over the top.

 

Bumping up as I would like to receive a reply by someone at RTA, if possible.  Several people agreed with my post, which I am reposting in case it was missed.

Thanks, Jet for the update about the googlemap data and the system map!

 

One other thing about googlemaps (as if you needed any more on your plate)- I notice that in some cities, clicking on a bus/rail stop highlights the entire length of the route.  I know it might sound like a trivial feature, but I have found it very useful in certain places to understand how the routes work- much easier than trying to play "connect the dots" with the bus stops in your head :).

^I agree.  That feature is very helpful and it would be nice if it could be utilized for GCRTA, but I don't know the amount of work involved to make that happen.

Complaints have already been brought up about the announcer guy on the rapid, but it's now getting so annoying it's starting to make me feel like my ears are bleeding. Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse, now they have a woman who makes nearly constant, incredibly loud announcements the entire time you are waiting on the platform at Tower City.

 

Why does RTA think we need to be constantly bombarded with noise? You literally cannot carry on any kind of cell phone conversation on the rapid anymore (I was always quiet on my phone, I swear!) because the noise from the overhead announcer interrupts the conversation and you have a continually broken connection where the person on the other end breaks up while talking because the overhead guy is talking at the same time. And you have to plug your ear with your free hand to hear what's being said since the guy is CONSTANTLY talking. That cutesy announcement about how we all don't need to know what you're having for dinner has gotten me to the point of some deranged Stephen King character. I feel like my face is melting off and I'm going to start spouting off in a guttural language and waving a giant cross back and forth at everyone screaming "MOVE" like Ben at the end of the Graduate. I have heard more than one person say they are probably going to stop taking the rapid because of the constant noise bombardment, and now that fairer weather is (almost) here, I think I'm going to join them, at least for awhile, because I can't take it anymore. The WAH-WAH-WAH of the pleasant lady's voice CONSTANTLY talking at Tower City is just the last straw. You really don't need to thank everyone for choosing RTA every single time someone speaks. They do not do this on any other transit system I've ridden in any other city. They simply announce the next stop. A lot of times, this is done via an electronic sign and nothing else, so you can ride in quiet, or at least quietly talk to your neighbor or on the phone. Forget reading. You cannot concentrate on a story that you have to keep starting over and over as you are interrupted again and again by these lengthy and pointless announcements about the long list of bus connections at the next route, or what "points of interest" are coming up, like the Cudell Recretation Center (really? This is an attraction we have to mention?) I cannot even hear my iPod over these people's voices unless it's turned up to a dangerous volume.

 

I don't think I should have to wear earplugs in order to ride public transit without being driven insane by the constant noise bombardment from announcements. What can we do to make the madness stop? It is COMPELTELY over the top.

 

Bumping up as I would like to receive a reply by someone at RTA, if possible. Several people agreed with my post, which I am reposting in case it was missed.

 

Unfortunately, R&R, I think we know by now RTA is a fan of their announcements and talking buses.  It's a shame.

Sad face.  I guess I'll keep driving to work, listening to whatever I want, rolling up my bills and stuffing them into the parking lot machines then, and saving $1.00 a day.  And no longer suggesting RTA to others as a great option, or defending them to those who have negative things to say.  If you can't say anything nice...  Too bad.

Got to experience the new routes pretty extensively this past week, and the service route changes were all the talk on the bus. Literally, I heard probably 20 passengers talking about it ... which seems like a lot. I'm going to preface this by saying that I'm still a big fan of RTA and I understand the tough choices they are having to make in this economy and that the lack of substantial state funding is exacerbating the situation. That being said, this was my experience ...

 

Most of my riding has been on the Healthline and the number 3 and 26. On the Healthline, I haven't experienced any problem with the changes, and to date, I haven't heard any complaints. There was an announcement reminding riders of the changes in route during rush hour (I know rockandroller ... more talking! I hear you on that one). All in all, not bad.

 

The experience on the 3 and 26 were a little different. The 3 wasn't horrible ... was running about 5 minutes behind all three times I've ridden it, and it seemed a bit fuller than usual, but people seemed content, and we got to where we were going relatively on time. The 26, meanwhile, was a nightmare. I rode it three times on Saturday, and with the weekend cuts of the 55, it was packed. I mean the-Rapid-on-St.-Patrick's-Day packed. This is where I've heard all the complaints so far. People were absolutely furious about the route changes, and there seemed to be low understanding of the state funding / sales tax situation, despite RTA's solid public information campaign. The first time I rode it, we had a 5 minute delay between Public Square and W. 65th. The second time was freaking crazy ... It was again 5 minutes late by W. 65th, but it picked up 25 minutes between W. 65th and Westgate. Riders were intense, particularly at the West Boulevard station, as people crammed on. Several were rude to the drivers, all of whom appeared fazed, and somewhat understandably, were a bit rude back. One driver yelled at several complaining passengers to check the new schedule but misstated scheduled departure time by 15 minutes. To RTA's credit, on my third trip, there was a spillover bus that leaped ahead to try to split the ridership between two buses ... but the one I was on was still packed, behind schedule and full of angry riders.

 

Former 55 riders, who had walked down to take the 26, seemed particularly irate. And I think somewhat understandably. Not only are the buses packed, but because many connecting buses are running on an hourly schedule, total travel times can skyrocket. I was on an ill-timed trip to the dreaded exurbs ... From Asiatown to Westlake took me round-trip ... drumroll please ... 4 hours!!! With the 55 place, it would have still been a challenging 2.5, but at 4 hours, it's just no longer feasible for me to leave the city/inner ring on the weekend ... Not that I should want to ;)

 

I'm wondering how other people's experience has been since the route changes. Don't mean for this to be a "pick on RTA" topic, but I thought it might be helpful to let people (and RTA) know which routes are seeming particularly problematic. I, for one, am going to be avoiding weekend bus travel on the 26 for the foreseeable future.

 

 

 

 

There was an announcement reminding riders of the changes in route during rush hour (I know rockandroller ... more talking! I hear you on that one).

 

It's really too bad, but more and more, whomever can, will be avoiding taking RTA for a variety of reasons, including posts like yours and mine.  It's just getting really unreasonable.

It's really too bad, but more and more, whomever can, will be avoiding taking RTA for a variety of reasons, including posts like yours and mine. It's just getting really unreasonable.

 

I'm really trying to stick it out ... but maybe I'm one of those people who can't really avoid it ... car-free. Despite the many troubles at RTA right now, I do believe it's one of the remaining jewels of Cleveland, and it would be a shame to see them lose any funding tied to ridership numbers, particularly given their many years of ridership increases. But I agree ... Between the overcrowding (in some instances), longer ride times (with fewer connections), noise pollution, higher fares, complicated "POP/pay on the bus/show your pre-purchased card to the driver after these hours" scheme ... It is becoming more and more difficult (and unpleasant) to be a rider.

RTA is pretending that it can use an efficient rail system as the backbone of a hub-and-spoke system, a tried and true approach that works in many places, except that WE DON'T HAVE such a rail system.  Downtown is the only hub, only a bit of it is reachable by rail, only a small fraction of the population lives near rail, rail doesn't run well except during peak hours, and it generally now takes two vehicles and an unpredictable amount of time to even get downtown to transfer to your next two-vehicle trip segment.

 

Oh . . and, given that Clifton Blvd. is one of the most densely populated and transit-oriented streets on the West Side, probably second only to the Gold Coast which is in the same general area . . . was it really any surprise that demand on the 26 line would greatly increase, or that RTA would end up paying much more money to provide crappier service to Lakewood?

 

Everyone understands the need to cut costs, but this plan seems poorly thought out, and, as a result, unlikely to achieve this or any other worthwhile goal.

I think car sharing may be in order for you, 8Shades.  You can still keep your car-free cred :)

 

That's a pretty ugly story about the 26.  Were they running articulated buses?

^ No, not sure why, but they were the standard buses. Perhaps the articulated ones only run on weekdays?

 

I'm considering carsharing, but unfortunately I believe they are all currently centered around University Circle and Shaker Square ... the nearest one to me would require a 15-minute walk to Euclid to catch the Health Line, then a 15-minute ride to the car ... Which isn't horrible but still not ideal ... Not to steer this topic off-topic :)

RTA is pretending that it can use an efficient rail system as the backbone of a hub-and-spoke system, a tried and true approach that works in many places, except that WE DON'T HAVE such a rail system.  Downtown is the only hub, only a bit of it is reachable by rail, only a small fraction of the population lives near rail, rail doesn't run well except during peak hours, and it generally now takes two vehicles and an unpredictable amount of time to even get downtown to transfer to your next two-vehicle trip segment.

 

Actually, I think you're a little harsh on rail.  True, there are some key areas that it misses (like the Euclid corridor where the HL now serves), but for a city/metro area of Cleveland's size and density, its not bad for a rapid transit system.  And keep in mind, also, most systems, outside of NYC, use bus lines to feed the rail system.  RTA and its predecessor CTS did that to some degree, although we have far to many bus routes that compete with rail.

 

Also, there are other hubs that RTA rail does reach, like University Circle, which has the 2nd largest employee base in NEO Ohio, and stands to get much stronger as a retail, residential base once the Uptown project and neighboring Red Line E. 120 stop is relocated to straddle UC Uptown and Little Italy.  You've also got Shaker Square (where, contrary to your assertion, there are more living units surrounding the Square (1 or 2 mile radius) than at the Lakewood Gold Coast), Ohio City and the airport as major hubs the rapid directly serves (in addition to all our major sports complexes sans CSU's Wolstein Center, which isn't that far away).

 

As to your comment about downtown, I totally disagree.  Tower City is literally at the crossroads/center of downtown.  And given that Cleveland's downtown is so compact, most destinations downtown are easily walkable -- 10 mins tops to most places and usually shorter than that.  This will only get better when the Flats East Bank project is built adjacent to the Waterfront Line station of the same name... The Waterfront Line is also near the huge Erieview/Galleria office complex (including the Celebreze 40-story Federal tower), although RTA never really marketed itself toward Erieview, and now daytime WFL service has been cut there -- though it likely will be restored when the Flats project is built.

 

RTA has its problems, but I think your assessment of rail is skewed.

 

Of course there are places that rail does directly serve, and yes, as I already acknowledged, hub/spoke does work in many other places.  With some improvements (e.g., service to Lakewood along the N/W or I-90 corridor, extensions to Berea/Strongsville, extension northeast from Windermere at least to Euclid Transit Center), our rail system could be enhanced to do the job.

 

But my point, which is that our current system does not suffice as a base for a hub/spoke system, stands.  For instance, feeding to/from rail does not work in three of the 4 or 5 largest suburbs:  Lakewood, which is not directly served by rail (though there are a few stations that come close), Parma (nowhere near any rail), and Euclid (nowhere near any rail).  As is already obvious, the 26 does not replace the 55, and the 30 does not replace the 39, at any time of day, night, or weekend.

 

What would happen if voters in these three communities decided to oppose the continuation of the RTA sales tax?

 

Conversely, what could happen if RTA served suburban communities well enough that they could plausibly argue for an increase in the RTA sales tax?

 

One additional point regarding cost-cutting: if RTA continues to deteriorate to the point where its only riders are the unavoidably transit-dependent, then keep in mind that many of the transit-dependent are physically disabled and may not be able to walk the distance the rest of us could cover in 10 minutes.  By removing fixed-route service from where disabled riders are / need to go, you might end up being forced to serve them via paratransit instead, which is much more costly.

RTA is pretending that it can use an efficient rail system as the backbone of a hub-and-spoke system, a tried and true approach that works in many places, except that WE DON'T HAVE such a rail system.  Downtown is the only hub, only a bit of it is reachable by rail, only a small fraction of the population lives near rail, rail doesn't run well except during peak hours, and it generally now takes two vehicles and an unpredictable amount of time to even get downtown to transfer to your next two-vehicle trip segment.

 

I generally agree.  The legacy rail lines that RTA inherited are very challenging to build a whole integrated transit system around.  The proof's in the low ridership.  If the county were growing, our lines could probably be retrofit (the dual hub may have been financially feasible), but that's probably unlikely the way things are headed now.  There are certainly no easy answers, so I don't know what else RTA can do.

I believe somebody (maybe Jerry?) said a while back they were going to stop using the articulated buses on the 22 and the 26 on the weekends.  It sounds like they need to bring those back!

They need to run TRAINS down Lorain and either Detroit, Clifton, or both!!!  The articulated buses were a step in the right direction, but both corridors, even during these dismal economic times, generate more than enough ridership to exceed the capacity provided by the 2-3 regular-sized buses currently scheduled for each off-peak hour.  And yes, I know, the 22 "competes" with the Red Line with stops nearby at W. 25, 65, and West Park; that doesn't stop it from being full most of the time.

Of course there are places that rail does directly serve, and yes, as I already acknowledged, hub/spoke does work in many other places. With some improvements (e.g., service to Lakewood along the N/W or I-90 corridor, extensions to Berea/Strongsville, extension northeast from Windermere at least to Euclid Transit Center), our rail system could be enhanced to do the job.

 

But my point, which is that our current system does not suffice as a base for a hub/spoke system, stands. For instance, feeding to/from rail does not work in three of the 4 or 5 largest suburbs: Lakewood, which is not directly served by rail (though there are a few stations that come close), Parma (nowhere near any rail), and Euclid (nowhere near any rail). As is already obvious, the 26 does not replace the 55, and the 30 does not replace the 39, at any time of day, night, or weekend.

 

What would happen if voters in these three communities decided to oppose the continuation of the RTA sales tax?

 

Conversely, what could happen if RTA served suburban communities well enough that they could plausibly argue for an increase in the RTA sales tax?

 

One additional point regarding cost-cutting: if RTA continues to deteriorate to the point where its only riders are the unavoidably transit-dependent, then keep in mind that many of the transit-dependent are physically disabled and may not be able to walk the distance the rest of us could cover in 10 minutes. By removing fixed-route service from where disabled riders are / need to go, you might end up being forced to serve them via paratransit instead, which is much more costly.

 

I'm not so sure it doesn't work to a degree in Lakewood, with the Detroit and Madison buses feeding the Red Line.  A suburb doesn't have to have rail directly in it to be served by rail (Cleveland Heights, University Heights and Beachwood are examples).. Also, my understanding is that Parma is a considerably younger inner ring suburb (in terms of its current size), and was mainly developed after WWII with returning vets and/or workers at nearby auto plants; I don't think it was ever a streetcar suburb like the Heights burbs, which as a group are similar in square mileage to Parma/Parma Hts, but more populace.

 

But Cleveland is not a classic hub-spokes system, your right... but rapid transit is ideally supplemented commuter rail for farther out burbs.... btw, I have no problem with the #22 on Lorain and don't believe it competes with the Rapid, which only touches 3 points on this 8 mile road... It could, however, be in a better position to feed it, like say, at W. 25th.  There could be better integration with the Rapid... those Cleveland Heights buses (the 32s, 9s and the 7, did compete by sending rush hour buses (and more at one point) downtown.  Now, they all end at Univ. Circle, as they should.

^How did the 32, 9 and 7 compete with the rapid?  They served the Heights, Cleveland Clinic, midtown corridor, CSU, and Playhouse Square with a a one seat ride.  The rapid?  Not so much.  Forcing people from those buses onto the rapid (those who stick around, anyway) is a serious step down in service for those riders.

^How did the 32, 9 and 7 compete with the rapid?  They served the Heights, Cleveland Clinic, midtown corridor, CSU, and Playhouse Square with a a one seat ride.  The rapid?  Not so much.  Forcing people from those buses onto the rapid (those who stick around, anyway) is a serious step down in service for those riders.

 

I think you'd find that in most cities with rapid transit, esp heavy rail like the Red Line, similar bus routes from the suburbs would end, as those routes now end.  If riders want to continue to other places in the corridor, they'd transfer to other services, like they do now to the Health Line, or to go downtown, they'd switch to rail trains... I'll admit, since Cleveland never built subway in the Euclid corridor instead of the HL, the situation is not ideal, but I think RTA made the right move... Also, some Cleve Hts riders also have the option of walking, busing or even driving south to Green (or even Blue) line stops.  The Heights (not named Shaker) has it a lot better than most.

 

^We're on the same page.  Though you make it sound like forcing riders to transfer twice for the pleasure of riding the red line isn't much of burden on them.  I think tanking ridership will suggest otherwise.  I don't fault RTA- I know they had to do it to save the $.  And the HL route change will take the sting out for rush hour commuters.

Did anyone ride/observe the 26 this weekend?  I saw some buses from afar and none were articulated.  I went downtown today but drove to the Triskett Station to take the Rapid (as the 26 is too far of a walk from my house considering last weekend's crush loads and 35-40 minute travel time to Public Square).

I saw an RTA going westbound this AM on Superior toward tower city. On the front where the route is usually posted it said Emergency call 911 Police. So I did of course.  Maybe that was your 26.

 

Has anyone ever seen something like this before?

I rode the 26 from 65th to downtown for the cavs game on Saturday  at approximately 1:20.

 

Non-articulated bus.  Standing room only.  By general outward appearances, and the general flow of people when we got off the bus, myself and the 2 people I was with were the only ones going down to the game.

 

It did not take any longer than it has in the past.

I saw an RTA going westbound this AM on Superior toward tower city. On the front where the route is usually posted it said Emergency call 911 Police. So I did of course.  Maybe that was your 26.

 

Has anyone ever seen something like this before?

 

I've seen this a handful of times before but when the bus passes me, all appears completely normal inside so I figure it's driver error and I ignore it. 

I've seen it too, and figured it was driver error.  Theoretically you could call RTA dispatch with the bus number and have them look into it instead of calling 911.....

I believe somebody (maybe Jerry?) said a while back they were going to stop using the articulated buses on the 22 and the 26 on the weekends.  It sounds like they need to bring those back!

 

I never said that, and to be blunt, I am not sure if there is anyone else on this list who has access to the few people who would know that.

Re: the announcer thread within a thread...

 

As you have pointed out here, RTA has experimented with several forms of rider communication, and none has been perfect.

 

In my opinion, the woman who now announces on the Red Line side has a wonderful voice, better than I have heard at some major airports. I don't expect to see any changes soon.

 

And, if I could pass along a quote from Joe Calabrese, "If someone wants to criticize RTA for communicating TOO MUCH with our customers...well, that's a criticism I will glady accept."

Great.  Accept it from a distance as I am no longer a rider, I couldn't take the announcements anymore (plus I am saving  $1 a day now!).  I won't be encouraging others to take the rapid anymore either, I just can't do it in good conscience.  I can't imagine that's the kind of criticism Joe Calabrese wants, but I don't know him personally.  It's really too bad nobody is taking these complaints seriously.  RTA does not need more reasons to lose riders.

^^I don't think the original complaint was about the sound of the voice giving the announcements, but the frequency with which they are announced.  I tend to agree that you can never give people too much information, but the way in which it is conveyed is very important.  A less invasive way of providing information is always appreciated. 

 

My opinion is that the only audible announcements that should be made at the station are for service changes or delays followed by a "thank you for choosing RTA".  All other information can be put on a display screen (which there should be more of).  Same goes for the trains themselves IMO.  Put display screens at the ends of the cars and display what the next stop is along with connecting routes. 

 

While I'm on the display screens thing, why aren't there any in public square on or near the bus shelters?  These could display the next arriving bus and approximate arrival time. 

^^I don't think the original complaint was about the sound of the voice giving the announcements, but the frequency with which they are announced. I tend to agree that you can never give people too much information, but the way in which it is conveyed is very important. A less invasive way of providing information is always appreciated.

 

THIS.

^ Lets be honest if RTA were to go out and buy LED screens right now they would be ripped apart from a PR standpoint.  Good idea, but right now might not be the best time to implement.

 

I would consider the announcements overall to be a helpful addition.  Especially for riders that may not use the system as much as regulars and don't know all the stops. 

 

However, I do think they are too long.  Announcing "attractions" outside of the core areas of Downtown, Ohio City, and University Circle doesn't seem to have much merit.  But that is really the only thing that I would improve upon.

I believe somebody (maybe Jerry?) said a while back they were going to stop using the articulated buses on the 22 and the 26 on the weekends.  It sounds like they need to bring those back!

 

I never said that, and to be blunt, I am not sure if there is anyone else on this list who has access to the few people who would know that.

 

Sorry Jerry, didn't mean to put words in your mouth.  I just very distinctly remember someone saying something about this a while back.

 

EDIT:  It was just the observation of several riders that the articulated buses disappeared on the weekends way back in November.

While I'm on the display screens thing, why aren't there any in public square on or near the bus shelters?  These could display the next arriving bus and approximate arrival time. 

 

Find your friends at CPP and the city and get them moving...

 

RTA has a bunch of these LED signs (maybe 20?) in a warehouse.  They have been basically putting them in all rail stations with power...

 

these signs are available for bus stops anywhere in cuyahoga county...but they need power.  CPP and FirstEnergy will not allow RTA to use the signs with a "streetlight rate," basically estimating the power consumption per hour and multiplying by hours in a month that it is in use - so each LED sign, or other amenity at a bus stop requires a separate electricity meter, which costs a few thousand to have installed. 

 

Also, CPP's streetlight power downtown uses some sort of hot ground wiring - only the traffic signals have had their power source upgraded to grounded power...and apparently these signs won't work on that.

 

So, if CPP would agree to a streetlight rate for the signs and it was possible to hook them up to the traffic light power sources, then there may be some real time arrival info available...

 

who wants to continue working with CPP and City Traffic Engineering to make this a reality?

I've seen it too, and figured it was driver error.  Theoretically you could call RTA dispatch with the bus number and have them look into it instead of calling 911.....

nope. 911 or nothing.  :lol:Keep in mind it actually said call 911, not just "emergency".

 

as far as driver voices...I loved how I was riding from the airport to tower city and a tape was playing with all east side stops.  Did the driver bother to override this and dispell the confusion of the out of towners on board? no. I guess thats my job. She didnt mind taking the effort to yell at at us to stow our carry on bag in a luggage rack.  Train was nearly empty and it was in the seat next to me. Why so few luggage racks on airport trains? I am sure this has been covered. Spouse also watched some poor guy get his luggage snatched out of one of those.

There seemed to be some kind of incident at Mayfield/Richmond today (Monday) on the number 9 going eastbound.  I was driving by around 3:45/4ish, and a bus was stopped with an RTA security car in front of it.  There seemed to be some kind of commotion in the bus, but alas there was too much traffic and I could only take a look for 5 or 6 seconds.  Anyone have any info?

Rockandroller and I had this conversation on the Off Topic thread.  She asked me to post it here because it's pertinent, and indeed it is:

 

:)  Yep.  There are clearly problems with all commutes, but I surely do enjoy listening to the music of my choice with no background noise, or talking on the phone without announcements interrupting it, or listening to nothing if that's what I feel like, and just rolling the windows down and feeling the breeze.  I also enjoy not being late every T/W/H.  I was late every T/W/H taking the train because of the drive time from my daycare provider to the rapid, then the wait for a train. Now I am early on those days because I can drive downtown so much quicker.  You have no idea how maddening it is to hear the same cutesy announcement day after day after day about how we all don't need to know what you're having for dinner, ha ha.  It just makes you want to pull out an uzi.

 

I took a vacation to Cleveland a couple of summers ago and found the Rapids to be very relaxing, easy, and quiet to ride.  I went to every station in the system (I know, I really need a life).  THEN, I had a layover in Cleveland last month on my way out to Rhode Island and decided to take the Rapid into Tower City and back.  That ONE ride was enough to make me debate taking a different mode back to the airport.  As someone who chooses destinations to ride mass transit systems, that says a lot.  Those announcements are incredibly annoying.  RTA is making a huge mistake with that. 

 

On a positive note, I used Tower City Station as an optimal example connectivity between mass transit and central business districts in my Architecture and Human Behavior class last week.  My prof loved the pictures.

 

I think the biggest problem is that they are unreasonably loud.  I put my headphones in after two stops and the voice still overwhelmed me.  I tried turning up my headphones and then there was just too much noise. 

 

Everyone expects a certain degree of ambient noise when riding public transportation.  But those announcements are beyond necessary.

I'm not so sure it doesn't work to a degree in Lakewood, with the Detroit and Madison buses feeding the Red Line.  A suburb doesn't have to have rail directly in it to be served by rail (Cleveland Heights, University Heights and Beachwood are examples).. Also, my understanding is that Parma is a considerably younger inner ring suburb (in terms of its current size), and was mainly developed after WWII with returning vets and/or workers at nearby auto plants; I don't think it was ever a streetcar suburb like the Heights burbs, which as a group are similar in square mileage to Parma/Parma Hts, but more populace.

 

But Cleveland is not a classic hub-spokes system, your right... but rapid transit is ideally supplemented commuter rail for farther out burbs.... btw, I have no problem with the #22 on Lorain and don't believe it competes with the Rapid, which only touches 3 points on this 8 mile road... It could, however, be in a better position to feed it, like say, at W. 25th.  There could be better integration with the Rapid... those Cleveland Heights buses (the 32s, 9s and the 7, did compete by sending rush hour buses (and more at one point) downtown.  Now, they all end at Univ. Circle, as they should.

 

There are significant connectivity issues with the 32's new end at University Circle Rapid station. I used to take the 32 from near Cedar/Lee to E 24th/Euclid. Easy on/Easy off at my destination. Now that involves getting off at the Uni Circle rapid stop and either walking up to Euclid (almost a half mile!) and catching a health line downtown, or if you don't feel like walking switching to the Red Line to tower city, and then taking a trolley or health line back up Euclid. Either way, both options add significant hassle and unnecessary energy to a formerly simple and quick commute. I don't understand why the 32 can't just have a terminus that ALWAYS has a connection to the health line? It's nice that they offered the option to select few rush hour routes, but can't they just drive the buses a little farther during the other times? Cleveland isn't known for its splendid year round walking conditions.

 

I understand it's tough times for RTA. But requiring former one trip commute passengers to now have to ride 3 separate RTA lines is a bit much.

Are you traveling in off-peak hours? If not, during rush hours (5-9 am and 3-6 pm), every other HealthLine bus is routed over to the University Circle Rapid station.