The train station announcements -- I have heard from many customers who like them. We are always striving to improve communications with our customers.

When my friends and I rode the train last weekend we overheard and saw many people making fun of the announcements; especially the "no one wants to hear what you are having for dinner" bit. I think, and many others that I have talked with think, that the announcements need to be shorter and to the point; announce the station, say a quick blurb about no food or drink on the train, quick blurb about noise related to cell and mp3 use, and if it is a touristy station (Tower City, 25th, and University Circle) mention near by attractions. Also, a lot of people dislike the guys voice. Overall, too much is trying to be said and I don't want to hear announcements the entire way to a station (like from Tower City to 25th and 25th to 65th).

 

The announcements, no matter how Mr. Masek spins it, are a complete joke.  I'm not sure who implemented this entire thing, but a trip to nearby Chicago's CTA could provide some much-needed insight as to how these announcements should be handled.  Quick and to the point!  It's not necessary make clever jokes about someone's cell phone dinner conversation, or even announce the "popular" areas of each neighborhood.  How many tourists do we have riding our transportation system that would warrant such a thing?  In any case, these announcements are doing nothing to improve the ride on RTA... they're simply making a mockery of it.

 

Nasty drivers and booth personnel -- There is no excuse for this. We take appropriate disciplinary action whenever we can.

 

I think everyone should keep in mind that even though RTA would like to discipline their driver's for such behavior, Amalgamated Transit Union Local 268, simply prevents anything serious from ever happening to these drivers.  An extreme example, look at Angela Williams, the RTA driver who struck a pedestrian on June 17, 2006 and was fired... the union filed a grievance and RTA had to re-hire her.  That same driver, almost 3 years later, mowed down and killed a pedestrian in Public Square.

 

A slap on the wrist is about as much as we can hope for, because anything more than that and the union will push back.

The train station announcements -- I have heard from many customers who like them. We are always striving to improve communications with our customers.

When my friends and I rode the train last weekend we overheard and saw many people making fun of the announcements; especially the "no one wants to hear what you are having for dinner" bit. I think, and many others that I have talked with think, that the announcements need to be shorter and to the point; announce the station, say a quick blurb about no food or drink on the train, quick blurb about noise related to cell and mp3 use, and if it is a touristy station (Tower City, 25th, and University Circle) mention near by attractions. Also, a lot of people dislike the guys voice. Overall, too much is trying to be said and I don't want to hear announcements the entire way to a station (like from Tower City to 25th and 25th to 65th).

 

The announcements, no matter how Mr. Masek spins it, are a complete joke.  I'm not sure who implemented this entire thing, but a trip to nearby Chicago's CTA could provide some much-needed insight as to how these announcements should be handled.  Quick and to the point!  It's not necessary make clever jokes about someone's cell phone dinner conversation, or even announce the "popular" areas of each neighborhood.  How many tourists do we have riding our transportation system that would warrant such a thing?  In any case, these announcements are doing nothing to improve the ride on RTA... they're simply making a mockery of it.

 

I think those types of announcements are needed.  We have ADA requirements that need to be filled.  There are many blind or deaf people that need that.  In NYC, Philly, Boston, DC, they make similar announcements.  I think what is said and when its announced needs to be looked at. 

 

I think information on neighborhoods is forward thinking.  That should stay, but there needs to be a map at each station / bus stop with greater details.

bus-turning-honking debacle -- a safety upgrade that other systems may implement soon. Again, left-turn accidents are a national bus issue.

 

Jerry, I think much of what people complain about is just whining for the sake of whining and you made many good points in your reply at the top of this page, but I completely agree with everyone here about the bus turning announcements.  They are completely pointless and (especially around Public Square) you hear so much of them that you quickly learn to tune them out and they don't end up preventing anything anyway.  All they do is add a bunch of noise to the urban landscape.

Nobody's saying don't have audio announcements... just do them well.  They need to be accurate and they shouldn't create white noise.  As to the "bus is turning" warnings, yes, people are saying don't have those.  Better idea:  make the buses smell terrible from 10' away.  If you wish to purposely and knowingly irritate people, you might as well get the deaf ones too.

^Just to add my opinion to all the others, if you want to make the stupid anouncements, why do it so often? How about that gets played after leaving one stop, so you only hear each once per trip? For example if I'm taking the Red line from Windermere to TC, mention no food or drinks when the train leaves Superior. Tell me to be discreet in my phone conversations when we're leaving University Circle. Tell me to keep my radio turned down when we're leaving E 79. Then thank me for riding as we're pulling into TC.

 

As far as announcing what else is at the stop, if the announcer guy can't spit out the name of the stop, that you can connect to the Healthline or Blue/Green line here (if applicable), and a point of interest in 5 or 6 seconds, the announcement is too long and stops being informative and starts being annoying.

 

As for the "Bus is turning" announcements, I still think it's an insult to pedestrians that RTA thinks we should watch out for your busses when we have the right of way. But since you insist on making the announcments, why not make them shorter? I have yet to hear the entire announcement when I wasn't on the bus because by the time half the announcment is made the bus has already made the turn and is half a block down the street. Why not just "watch out, coming thru"?

Nobody's saying don't have audio announcements... just do them well. 

 

That's pretty much how I feel about everything with the RTA.  Yeah, I understand funding is short.  But you are still providing a service.  So with what funding you have and with what service you provide, I wish it was done with more attention to detail across the board.

 

I want to ride the RTA.  But presently, I feel like the majority of riders are riding the RTA b/c they have to ride it...and RTA is treating its customers as such...i.e., we don't really care about all of these details, you have no choice but to ride public transit.  It seems like they just aren't competing to get a market share of riders who have alternatives.

I think there's 2 different issues.  Internal and external announcements.  A moving bus making external announcements is silly.  I'd say the perceived need for this is that buses have become much quieter over the years and like hybrid cars can sneak up on people at low speeds.  I think a deep bass rumble towards the front of the bus will get more attention and be less annoying than a constant announcement.  A rumble can be felt and is immediate.

The train station announcements -- I have heard from many customers who like them. We are always striving to improve communications with our customers.

When my friends and I rode the train last weekend we overheard and saw many people making fun of the announcements; especially the "no one wants to hear what you are having for dinner" bit. I think, and many others that I have talked with think, that the announcements need to be shorter and to the point; announce the station, say a quick blurb about no food or drink on the train, quick blurb about noise related to cell and mp3 use, and if it is a touristy station (Tower City, 25th, and University Circle) mention near by attractions. Also, a lot of people dislike the guys voice. Overall, too much is trying to be said and I don't want to hear announcements the entire way to a station (like from Tower City to 25th and 25th to 65th).

 

The announcements, no matter how Mr. Masek spins it, are a complete joke.  I'm not sure who implemented this entire thing, but a trip to nearby Chicago's CTA could provide some much-needed insight as to how these announcements should be handled.  Quick and to the point!  It's not necessary make clever jokes about someone's cell phone dinner conversation, or even announce the "popular" areas of each neighborhood.  How many tourists do we have riding our transportation system that would warrant such a thing?  In any case, these announcements are doing nothing to improve the ride on RTA... they're simply making a mockery of it.

 

Well said...the spin is just that, a spin/rationale. This is NOT needed and just serves to aggravate an already getting noisier urban scape. This is an issue I have educated myself on for 5 years and I think RTA folks need to be educated on this from the outside in as to why this is simply NOT necessary. By the way, I see there is little, if any concern about the crap at the stop in my post today. Well, as there are many who help do trash sweeps in neighborhoods, we will not be cleaning up after this mess. Additionally, nice opportunity to attract opportunist animals like raccoons...giving them the bad name when the label needs to be on the filthy and neglectful people.

I think there's 2 different issues.  Internal and external announcements.  A moving bus making external announcements is silly.  I'd say the perceived need for this is that buses have become much quieter over the years and like hybrid cars can sneak up on people at low speeds.  I think a deep bass rumble towards the front of the bus will get more attention and be less annoying than a constant announcement.  A rumble can be felt and is immediate.

 

With all due respect,  but for you to suggest a "deep bass rumble" is a classic example of how  ill-informed the general public is as to how harmful deep bass, coupled with vibration is to the body. At least between 12 and 15% per-cent of the population will have a severe "allergy" (extremely sensitive--especially children) so to speak, to this particular kind of noise---and that is not to say that it will not be plain aggravating to the rest of us. It can indeed be felt and can be literally terrifying to many people and can potentially cause immediate physical problems.

 

This is a kind of noise that already invades many neighborhoods day and night by "audio-terrorists" who intentionally add this to their cars for the purpose of annoying the hell out of people and getting attention. Ever been forced to listen to this while stuck at a traffic light? Now you suggest buses running virtually all day and night to join in the madness? Even if this is heard for a few seconds, it will be offset by the fact the buses run all day and would be doing this. Never will happen on my watch. I will go to council meetings etc.

 

I strongly suggest anyone thinking that such is a wise idea to read the following websites before making such a suggestion. Please read this material as adding what is suggested is  sooooooooooooooooo NOT going to solve anything, and in fact, this technology is being fought in many communities. Its a dangerous combination of high decibels, low frequency and bass-like sounds.

 

No, No, No, No, No, No.....We simply do not need to add any more of this particular kind of noise to our community. Such a sound has reached the maximum limit and quota in the sound scape. In other words, there is no room for it. Those who are acoustically over-stimulated will probably not know the difference, but this is not to say its alright. This particular type of sound is especially invasive in the home, in-your-face, and obnoxious.

 

See below to become informed as to the type of sound this would be related to. It would be utterly irresponsible to do this. Talk to people who are forced to hear this sort of sound...and FEEL it nearly every day 'round the clock.

 

It brings out aggression, sleeplessness, anxiety, and a host of other physical problems. Noise was used to drive Manuel Noriega out of his hidey hole. Lots of bass and vibration too. Want more safety? Hire better drivers.  I can almost guarantee that if this is done, people will be wishing for the announcements again and say "What the hell were we thinking to allow this?" Nice sound when you're trying to enjoy your sidewalk cafe meal, too.

 

 

Lastly, we will not increase safety by continuing to make everything louder and louder until we keep having to get even LOUDER to be heard. Where does it stop, and what cost will that eventually impose on society when we have a population that is largely hearing impaired?

 

A more green, safer and sustainable community also begins with addressing excessive noise pollution and its negative impacts on a community socially, economically and environmentally, so we can create a more reasonably peaceful one---yes, even in the city where many think it "has to be" noisy. Noise by definition is "unwanted sound" it does not have to be loud. This would be an unwanted sound, trust me.  New York City has aggressively addressed noise issues recently and is on the brink of cutting edge reform with their noise ordinances.

 

http://www.noiseoff.org/boomcars.php

 

http://www.noiseoff.org/ads.php

^ EC your "Noise Off" posts are almost as bad as some of the Announcements that RTA makes (see what I did there :D).  I, and probably many otheres, have stopped paying attention to them and these.  While the point you are getting at is valid about excess noise I think at this point a simple reference to the website would be sufficient.

 

As to the talking buses, are we sure that they are a terrible and ineffective idea?  No one on this board is a transportation engineer, at least that I know.  While these don't pass a general public smell test, maybe we are not approaching from the right perspective. 

 

The crosswalks downtown beep at you as you cross.  Is that a bad thing to have, alerting the visually impaired that it is safe to cross.  And if Left Hand Turns are the problem that Jerry states they are across the nation then maybe this really is a helpful tool.  Instead of outright bashing we should aim to improve, such as shorter and more pointed announcements.

^ EC your "Noise Off" posts are almost as bad as some of the Announcements that RTA makes (see what I did there :D ).  I, and probably many otheres, have stopped paying attention to them and these.  While the point you are getting at is valid about excess noise I think at this point a simple reference to the website would be sufficient.

 

As to the talking buses, are we sure that they are a terrible and ineffective idea?  No one on this board is a transportation engineer, at least that I know.  While these don't pass a general public smell test, maybe we are not approaching from the right perspective. 

 

The crosswalks downtown beep at you as you cross.  Is that a bad thing to have, alerting the visually impaired that it is safe to cross.  And if Left Hand Turns are the problem that Jerry states they are across the nation then maybe this really is a helpful tool.  Instead of outright bashing we should aim to improve, such as shorter and more pointed announcements.

 

Very well stated  :clap:

Here's a way to improve it... alert the bus driver, not everyone else.  Pedestrians generally have the right of way.  These announcments imply otherwise, which in most cases is flat out wrong, on top of being annoying.  It's an attack on the rights of pedestrians and an attempt to shirk legal responsibility on RTA's part.  RTA has no right to make our city look (or sound) bad just to make itself feel safer from liability.  RTA needs to stop chastising the taxpayers who keep it afloat.

Here's a way to improve it... alert the bus driver, not everyone else. Pedestrians generally have the right of way. These announcments imply otherwise, which in most cases is flat out wrong, on top of being annoying. It's an attack on the rights of pedestrians and an attempt to shirk legal responsibility on RTA's part. RTA has no right to make our city look (or sound) bad just to make itself feel safer from liability. RTA needs to stop chastising the taxpayers who keep it afloat.

 

They have those proximity alarms on cars now to prevent you from running into things.....  Can they do that for buses?

 

Here's a way to improve it... alert the bus driver, not everyone else. Pedestrians generally have the right of way. These announcments imply otherwise, which in most cases is flat out wrong, on top of being annoying. It's an attack on the rights of pedestrians and an attempt to shirk legal responsibility on RTA's part. RTA has no right to make our city look (or sound) bad just to make itself feel safer from liability. RTA needs to stop chastising the taxpayers who keep it afloat.

Well said.

They have those proximity alarms on cars now to prevent you from running into things..... Can they do that for buses?

Sure it could be done, but it wouldn't be as cheap as telling us to watch out.

^ EC your "Noise Off" posts are almost as bad as some of the Announcements that RTA makes (see what I did there :D).  I, and probably many otheres, have stopped paying attention to them and these.  While the point you are getting at is valid about excess noise I think at this point a simple reference to the website would be sufficient.

 

As to the talking buses, are we sure that they are a terrible and ineffective idea?  No one on this board is a transportation engineer, at least that I know.  While these don't pass a general public smell test, maybe we are not approaching from the right perspective. 

 

The crosswalks downtown beep at you as you cross.  Is that a bad thing to have, alerting the visually impaired that it is safe to cross.  And if Left Hand Turns are the problem that Jerry states they are across the nation then maybe this really is a helpful tool.  Instead of outright bashing we should aim to improve, such as shorter and more pointed announcements.

 

If you don't want to inform yourself on the issue, then don't read the post. You may not like the post from me, but personally, I cannot allow the facts I have learned about this kind of particular noise to be poo pooed or discredited from those who are not understanding its effects. Until you have been assaulted with this sound on a regular basis, you won't get it. Anyway, No worries.

 

As for MTS up there....Look at how many times he picks apart what people say to exhaustion, over analyzes what are sometimes conversational rhetorical statements, baits, deals a race or profiling card.... and highlights all in red to the point the eyes are sore--And, post some pretty obnoxious photos. Anyone noticing that?

 

That is just as annoying and worth some critique too. 

 

As for the "transportation engineer" comment....  One could argue that the typical transportation engineer may not be in tune with what is actually safer for pedestrians who are out their walking daily, and instead, is more focused around the issue from a perspective from the bus or other vehicle instead of the eyes, ears, and legs of the pedestrian. Sorry, I just think it is shear stupidity to have these. What next? Noisemakers on our shoes each time we take a step to alert people we are walking by? How about on the dogs paws? Where does this nonsense stop?

 

Please excuse some of us who have the "selfish" interest for wanting to WALK!!!

Here's a way to improve it... alert the bus driver, not everyone else.  Pedestrians generally have the right of way.  These announcments imply otherwise, which in most cases is flat out wrong, on top of being annoying.  It's an attack on the rights of pedestrians and an attempt to shirk legal responsibility on RTA's part.  RTA has no right to make our city look (or sound) bad just to make itself feel safer from liability.  RTA needs to stop chastising the taxpayers who keep it afloat.

 

Now THAT was well stated...  :clap:

Here's a way to improve it... alert the bus driver, not everyone else.  Pedestrians generally have the right of way.  These announcments imply otherwise, which in most cases is flat out wrong, on top of being annoying.  It's an attack on the rights of pedestrians and an attempt to shirk legal responsibility on RTA's part.  RTA has no right to make our city look (or sound) bad just to make itself feel safer from liability.  RTA needs to stop chastising the taxpayers who keep it afloat.

 

THANK YOU! The most attentive thought so far....You hit the nail on the head.. Let's NOT forget in the land of automobiles that by LAW, pedestrians still have the right of way..and yes, the announcements indeed imply otherwise!  :clap:

I was downtown today... the bus not only honked twice while it was turning but it also had the automated announcement which didn't even completely play as the bus plowed down Superior at seemingly 45 MPH!

 

I love this weather... I can walk, but I must endure downtown Cleveland's new soundtrack.

One thing, I publicly say...sorry.. Yes, my post was too long...and are on that issue. I admit it. But if anyone thinks its tiring reading posts like that, imagine how tiring it is to be forced to hear that particular kind of noise nearly every day with no escape. That is how it is for thousands of people. I was simply fuming when the idea of vibration and bass was proposed. Note that my reply was not personal to the person, it was to the issue, really. Tedders, same goes for you... didn't mean to jump all over you for stating my post was long. It was more so out of the idea of downplaying that particular issue. At any rate... no worries.

If we want the busses to be shorter and more to the point in their announcements, they might as well just yell "Get the f@#k outta the way!"

One thing, I publicly say...sorry.. Yes, my post was too long...and are on that issue. I admit it. But if anyone thinks its tiring reading posts like that, imagine how tiring it is to be forced to hear that particular kind of noise nearly every day with no escape. That is how it is for thousands of people. I was simply fuming when the idea of vibration and bass was proposed. Note that my reply was not personal to the person, it was to the issue, really. Tedders, same goes for you... didn't mean to jump all over you for stating my post was long. It was more so out of the idea of downplaying that particular issue. At any rate... no worries.

 

EC, I wasn't trying to downplay the issue.  I agree that excessive noise can be a nuisance.  I was trying to get across that maybe instead of outright saying this is a terrible idea we should look at ways to improve it.  Whether that be shorter and more succinct announcements (which I think is a great idea for a multitude of reasons) to better training.  It seems like this idea is what RTA is going with so we should try to make it better.

Another thing, does the talking bus work better in the inner-ring suburbs where the sound isn't bouncing off the walls of the buildings surrounding PS.  We all know it is loud enough down there, but the noise may be more diffused in say Tremont or another city street where the surrounding buildings aren't amplifying the sound.  As RTA has a region wide network, what may work right in the heart of downtown may not work in other areas.  So that brings us to where are most of the incidents with peds? 

Who's to say this even reduces incidents with pedestrians?  Maybe more pedestrians will get hit buy other cars because they're paying attention to the annoying busses.  Besides, we're talking about something that happens very infrequently.  Do we need to equip all cars with devices that make annoying noises, too?

well if it stays the VERY least they can do is figure out a way for the announcement to ONLY take place when ACTUALLY making left hand turns.  The noises seemed to be activated simply pulling away from stops.

 

And I think the point is... to those of us that are subjected to these things around public square.  The noises come from EVERYWHERE, and it is virtually impossible to tell what direction or which bus its coming from.  It almost has a dizzying effect.

More trees help to reduce noise. But unfortunately the ones planted along Euclid near the heart are mostly dead and too small to be quite effective yet.

well if it stays the VERY least they can do is figure out a way for the announcement to ONLY take place when ACTUALLY making left hand turns.  The noises seemed to be activated simply pulling away from stops.

 

You are correct. RTA is aware that the device is not working as intended on some buses, and is working to correct that on a bus-by-bus basis.

 

As for the many other anti-talking bus remarks, please consider this. RTA's goal is to make our system as safe as possible, and to reduce / eliminate pedestrians accidents. We have to try everything possible to meet that goal -- including continuing the talking buses. Although they made be modified (as I mentioned above), it's fairly safe to say that they are here to stay, until something better comes along. If you have a positive contribution as to what that "better" might be, please send e-mail to [email protected]. I promise to forward all e-mails to our Safety Director for consideration. If you want to just vent, go ahead and vent here.

Jerry, nothing personal here, but sorry......you or RTA still does not get it. Many can argue that this attempt (talking buses)  at safety actually does the opposite. In a way you are using... or on the verge of flirting with another pro-noise argument that bikers use to justify their loud pipes battle cry when installing illegally modified pipes. This argument shot down big time through physics by their own brethren. (Google Hurt Report)

 

Oh dear...this is pointless...  Now I will fit my dogs paws with loud subwoofers that go KA-PLUNK...KA-PLUNK...KA-PLUNK....KA-PLUNK... My shoes too...and a siren on my hat to let the buses know I am crossing the street and have the right of way! But, when we';re all deaf, loud won't matter and then we may have to revert back to using our eyes and stop talking on cell phones when driving. I know... I am selfish because I walk. I'm done with this today.

^^Jerry, I appreciate the position you and RTA are in regarding the talking buses.  But it really doesn't make sense to say that RTA's goal is to make the system as safe as possible.  Safety, along with speed and cost, is just one more goal that must be balanced against the others.  Otherwise buses would drive at 10 mph, have armed escorts and be bulletproof.  But again, I appreciate RTA's position- the bus talking costs RTA very little and may (may) improve pedestrian safety.  The problem is all the costs the talking impose on the rest of downtown, the noise.  A classic externality.  If the talking is really too much to take, it will be up to the city to ban the bus talking and send RTA back to the drawing board.  I wouldn't be surprised if this is what ultimately happens if the noise is as bad as people say (I haven't heard it yet).  If I owned a condo in public square, this is probably what I'd be pressuring city council to do.

 

My impression is that per mile driven, the number of serious pedestrian accidents over the years has been pretty low.  If so, I would have though RTA's zero tolerance rule regarding driver distractions (cell phones, etc.) would have been an adequate response.

Jerry I know you're stuck between a rock and a hard place.

 

You listed varying issues.

 

When can you update the forum with plans for improvement or correction.

 

Thats what the group is really after.

 

Example the POP machines are not user friendly what is RTA's plan to correct that?  What is the timeline?  Why is this information not shared with the media (the PD only reports one side of the story) so it doesn't look like RTA is squandering money? 

 

Dirty Buses/Trains.  How about a volunteer day where Citizens can view trains and help clean them or atleast get a story into the PD on Bus operations and maintenance.

 

Dirty ROW.  A story on the tracks and why are located where they are. How often they are cleaned/maintaned along with information on what to do if people see illegal dumping, etc.

Straphanger... you are spot on....  It is a classic externality that will levy potential problems on everyone else (city) to have to deal with. Not the right thing to do.

Is there any talk about starting weekend Trolley service in downtown again?  I was down there today and between the Warehouse District, East Fourth, Theater District and CSU, there were quite a few people out and about.  Good to see!

79, as I recall it was a matter of having the funds necessary to fund such operations.  At present, Dollar Bank is footing the bill and as such, their priorities are on the white collar business crowd MF6A7P.  I think the solution would be to find another revenue source to help fund a separate weekend loop.  Maybe we could have the various entertainment establishments form a sort of co-op to help cover costs?  They would be expanding their pool of potential customers by allowing for more bar crawls from one area to the next, prevent a lot of drunk driving, and have the opportunity to advertise within the trolleys.

Promises, promises...

 

We were told by RTA, the better part of a year ago, that the 20-min base Red Line schedule was due to the Puritas-W.150 Rapid stop reconstruction... first, it seems kind of absurd to whack service so significantly for rebuilding of one Rapid station and, now, I see the 20-min base schedule is even during rush hour, even when the intermitten Brookpark runs average every 10 min runs for non-Airport trains... A 20 min base is totally unacceptable for a major/heavy rail Rapid line (the previous 15 min. base was shaky, but acceptable)... Call me skeptical, but methinks this may have been yet another slick RTA way to save a few pennies at the large expense of Rail riders... and believe me, 20 minute intervals make a huge difference, such as to the extend, even I shun the Red Line for runs to Ohio City from the East Side... sometimes I use the bus but more often, I simply drive...

 

Another promise, made by RTA on this board approaching a year ago, was that RTA was going to "work on" the GPS auto messages on the Rapid... HA!  Not only have they NOT changed at all, from either the absurdly/annoyingly chatty guy on the Red Line, to the robot-like female voice on the Blue and Green Lines, Rapid drives have gone so far as to mute the mechanical voices out for their own scratchy/oft-inaudible motorman's announcements -- you know, the ones that are so bad that ... well, the automated voices were supposed to replace...

 

... and as for buses, why does RTA continue to run No. 81 buses past W. 25/Lorain where the Red Line and a bunch of buses into town run where, for the buses at least, you're never waiting for more than about 5-mins during the day for a Public Square run?  Isn't this supposed to be fuel/belt-tighteing times...at least, that's what RTA tells us...

 

... And speaking of waste, why is RTA running big, regular-sized buses for the Shaker Square-to-Green Road (Green Line replacement) shuttle while Attleboro Road's street/tracks are being replaced... usually, only a handful of non-rush/non-sports (note: the Indians are on the road) hour commuters use leg... Wouldn't it have made sense to use the smaller circulator type buses (since Joe Calabrese rudly terminated those) rather than the gas-guzzling regular buses? 

 

Honestly, does anybody really give a damn at or about RTA, or are we so buffaloed by their crying-poor retort that we just must accept everything they say or do?  This is really getting sickening.

Totally agree about the Red Line headways.

 

I think that the reason the no. 81 was routed down W. 25 was to continue the direct Lakeview Terrace to Steelyard Commons (Walmart) connection that used to be provided by the 807 circulator.  As a daily 81 rider, I completely sympathize... It is beyond irritating to me that it now takes a half hour to get downtown from Tremont, especially when it used to take half that time.  Don't even get me started on the 45-minute headways.  At least it's still 24-hour service... for now...

 

RE:  the circulator vs. standard buses for shuttles, I seem to remember seeing something posted here that said that the circulators don't actually save much money compared to the larger buses.  I think the gas use is similar, but the biggest cost per run is the cost of the driver, which is the same for both.  My memory could be failing me, though.

RE: the circulator vs. standard buses for shuttles, I seem to remember seeing something posted here that said that the circulators don't actually save much money compared to the larger buses. I think the gas use is similar, but the biggest cost per run is the cost of the driver, which is the same for both. My memory could be failing me, though.

 

Give your memory all the credit it deserves. You are correct.

Is there any talk about starting weekend Trolley service in downtown again?  I was down there today and between the Warehouse District, East Fourth, Theater District and CSU, there were quite a few people out and about.  Good to see!

 

We agree, an active downtown is great to see.

 

79, as I recall it was a matter of having the funds necessary to fund such operations. At present, Dollar Bank is footing the bill and as such, their priorities are on the white collar business crowd MF6A7P. I think the solution would be to find another revenue source to help fund a separate weekend loop. Maybe we could have the various entertainment establishments form a sort of co-op to help cover costs? They would be expanding their pool of potential customers by allowing for more bar crawls from one area to the next, prevent a lot of drunk driving, and have the opportunity to advertise within the trolleys.

 

You are correct. Funding is the issue when it comes to providing more service.

The best thing RTA could do for downtown (non-audio related) is expand 24-hour services to areas where young people live... or at least keep lines running strong till 3am or so.  Shutting down the Rapids at midnight is just awful.  And lines like the 26 and the 81 need more frequency during peak nightlife hours.  I realize this may be a money issue, but I hope it will have high priority going forward.  Far too often you see a concert downtown and your bus/train route is done before the show is.  This adds to the sense that transit riders are second-class, because they end up having to leave before everyone else.

some interesting notes about the "adopt a shelter" and "rapid recovery" programs in here:

 

Shaker Heights RTA Green Line stop renamed

By Thomas Jewell, Sun News

June 03, 2010, 12:42PM

 

 

SHAKER HEIGHTS The Green Line got a little greener last week, thanks to a partnership between the Nature Center at Shaker Lakes, the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority, and the Onaway School Fourth Grade Service Corps.

 

With native plants donated by Lawn Lad, the 19 fourth-grade volunteers converged on the rapid shelters at South Park and Shaker Boulevard, designating it as the Nature Center at Shaker Lakes train stop...

 

...RTA officials are interested in reviving the “Adopt-a-Shelter” and “Rapid Recovery” programs of the past that have fallen off in participation in recent years, although Calabrese commended the work of the Cleveland Rotary at the West 25th Street stop, with a “tremendous amount” of landscaping and grass-cutting... 

 

more at: http://blog.cleveland.com/sunpress/2010/06/shaker_heights_rta_green_line.html

 

 

 

Is there any talk about starting weekend Trolley service in downtown again?  I was down there today and between the Warehouse District, East Fourth, Theater District and CSU, there were quite a few people out and about.  Good to see!

 

 

 

We agree, an active downtown is great to see.

 

79, as I recall it was a matter of having the funds necessary to fund such operations.  At present, Dollar Bank is footing the bill and as such, their priorities are on the white collar business crowd MF6A7P.  I think the solution would be to find another revenue source to help fund a separate weekend loop.  Maybe we could have the various entertainment establishments form a sort of co-op to help cover costs?  They would be expanding their pool of potential customers by allowing for more bar crawls from one area to the next, prevent a lot of drunk driving, and have the opportunity to advertise within the trolleys.

 

You are correct. Funding is the issue when it comes to providing more service.

 

All the Trolleys are equipped with fare machines.  Couldn't RTA establish a reasonable fare for weekend service in lieu of finding some hard-to-find corporate sponsor?  Maybe a $1.00 for every ride?  Cheaper than a cab!  I took a cab from the Warehouse District to East Fourth and it cost be $5.00 (including tip.)

 

Get the hotels on board... make the E-line do more of a B+E-line where it goes down by the Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame.... I think $1.00-$2.00 per ride is reasonable... run it every 15 minutes or so... or less if you have to.

^Unfortunately, I think RTA would still need to come up with some more subsidy to run weekend trolleys- I don't think the fares would pay for the service- likely not even half of it.

 

Downtown circulation is still an area worth thinking about though.  Maybe a future west side BRT line could continue down Euclid to the new transit center (or beyond) to provide a very identifiable E-W route that covers the full length of the downtown spine.  The HL already does this east of PS for those who know how to ride it.  Unlike the normal bus routes, you don't have to worry about remembering route numbers or schedules because of the branding and frequency, so it's much less intimidating for weekend riders (kind of like the rapid).

The best thing RTA could do for downtown (non-audio related) is expand 24-hour services to areas where young people live... or at least keep lines running strong till 3am or so. Shutting down the Rapids at midnight is just awful. And lines like the 26 and the 81 need more frequency during peak nightlife hours. I realize this may be a money issue, but I hope it will have high priority going forward. Far too often you see a concert downtown and your bus/train route is done before the show is. This adds to the sense that transit riders are second-class, because they end up having to leave before everyone else.

 

Amen brother!... I understand the expense of running Rapids 24 hours as well as the need for late night maintenance issues on tracks... But RTA did, before Joe C, offer late night Friday and Sat night service on the Rapid -- until about 2:30p.  It was esp popular when the Flats was hot and the East Bank well served by the, then brand new Waterfront Line...

 

Well, even though the Flats have seriously declined and the Waterfront Line (foolishly, I think) all but killed off, the growth of E. 4th/Gateway along with the continuing strength of nearby the Warehouse District more than justify the restoration of Friday/Sat late night trains... Tower City's platforms are a comfortable 4/5 min stroll from the heart of these 2 areas.

 

There are few better justifications to public transit than to keep individuals who may have had a few too many off the road -- in addition to attracting even more people downtown: both would be served by adding this total of 5 hours of rail service.  Heck, if RTA wanted to scale back the Red Line to half-hourly intervals for after-midnight runs, it would still be a great service (hell, the current 20-min non-rush intervals are practically the same!) ... To not have this late night service is penny-wise and pound foolish in addition to just being stubbornly ignorant/opposed to the riding needs of the public.

The best thing RTA could do for downtown (non-audio related) is expand 24-hour services to areas where young people live... or at least keep lines running strong till 3am or so. Shutting down the Rapids at midnight is just awful. And lines like the 26 and the 81 need more frequency during peak nightlife hours. I realize this may be a money issue, but I hope it will have high priority going forward. Far too often you see a concert downtown and your bus/train route is done before the show is. This adds to the sense that transit riders are second-class, because they end up having to leave before everyone else.

 

Amen brother!... I understand the expense of running Rapids 24 hours as well as the need for late night maintenance issues on tracks... But RTA did, before Joe C, offer late night Friday and Sat night service on the Rapid -- until about 2:30p. It was esp popular when the Flats was hot and the East Bank well served by the, then brand new Waterfront Line...

 

Well, even though the Flats have seriously declined and the Waterfront Line (foolishly, I think) all but killed off, the growth of E. 4th/Gateway along with the continuing strength of nearby the Warehouse District more than justify the restoration of Friday/Sat late night trains... Tower City's platforms are a comfortable 4/5 min stroll from the heart of these 2 areas.

 

There are few better justifications to public transit than to keep individuals who may have had a few too many off the road -- in addition to attracting even more people downtown: both would be served by adding this total of 5 hours of rail service. Heck, if RTA wanted to scale back the Red Line to half-hourly intervals for after-midnight runs, it would still be a great service (hell, the current 20-min non-rush intervals are practically the same!) ... To not have this late night service is penny-wise and pound foolish in addition to just being stubbornly ignorant/opposed to the riding needs of the public.

 

I 100% agree, I have often lamented the fact that I have to drive DT to go out when I have a monthly pass.  The pass is going to cost me the same no matter what, if I can use it for more than just commuting service then I am saving myself even more. 

 

I have used the rapid to go out to the WD on a Thursday, and it works ok for that.  Reason being that I wont stay out all that late if I have to work in the morning.  But for a Fri/Sat night it makes no sense.  Then I end up having to pay $5-$8 to park and make sure that I don't have too much fun.  It sounds like a no-brainer of service, just wonder if the labor costs are holding it back.

Human resources represent about 75 percent of RTA's costs.

 

At Amtrak and the airlines they are about 50 percent of total operating costs.

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/news/local/article/GRTC07_20100606-221803/349528/

 

The Richmond, VA transit system, seeking a way to improve its bus safety program, looks to Cleveland for answers. Staff visited Cleveland during the recent APTA conference, and audio bus warning signals will begin soon.

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/news/local/article/GRTC07_20100606-221803/349528/

 

The Richmond, VA transit system, seeking a way to improve its bus safety program, looks to Cleveland for answers. Staff visited Cleveland during the recent APTA conference, and audio bus warning signals will begin soon.

 

On behalf of the residents of Cleveland, I would like to apologize to the residents of Richmond.  My advice for you:  get some ear plugs.

This is ridiculous. If you read the article, it's clear they've had a lot of really crappy drivers on the payroll and that nobody has been doing their checking on their driving records like they're supposed to. So the answer is more noise pollution?  Unbelievable.

Earlier, you asked what RTA is doing about making the POP machines more user-friendly. I checked today to make sure I had the most up-to-date information.

 

"RTA continues to work with the contractor to upgrade these machines. The contractor knows that RTA does not find the machines acceptable as they are. RTA will continue to withhold payment from the contractor until the machines conform to our needs."

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/news/local/article/GRTC07_20100606-221803/349528/

 

The Richmond, VA transit system, seeking a way to improve its bus safety program, looks to Cleveland for answers. Staff visited Cleveland during the recent APTA conference, and audio bus warning signals will begin soon.

 

On behalf of the residents of Cleveland, I would like to apologize to the residents of Richmond. My advice for you: get some ear plugs.

 

DocBroc, as a downtown resident do you hear the talking buses all the time when at your home?  I ask because I am walking through public square twice a day and never hear these.  I'm wondering if we are making mountains out of mole hills or if due to the bus routing PS doesn't get much of the announcements or if I am just getting lucky every single day.

Why does RTA continue to run No. 81 buses past W. 25/Lorain where the Red Line and a bunch of buses into town run where, for the buses at least, you're never waiting for more than about 5-mins during the day for a Public Square run? Isn't this supposed to be fuel/belt-tighteing times...at least, that's what RTA tells us...

 

From Service Planning: "The #81 takes people who live near West 25 Street to various places where neither the Red Line nor the other bus routes travel. It also serves other travel needs."