Over dramatics?  I don't think so...  This reaction from RTA isn't even a slap on the wrist for the violators and both sides know it.  How can you realistically encourage people from the suburbs or otherwise to park their car and pay to take this system when that is RTA's approach?  You can't.  Don't brush off the comparisons to Detroit, it's the very same mentality and approach that crippled that city.

So the new RTA policy basically says you can jump on the bus for free until you get caught, at which point nothing will happen. You can continute to ride for free till you get caught again at which point you'll get a $50 fine, but nothing will probably happen if you don't pay that either. As long as the city keeps protecting the rights of the underpriveleged, pretty soon that'll be all that's left. Hello Detroit?

 

So, gottaplan, what's your plan?  How should RTA deal with these juvenile criminals?  Nail them with the $50 fine immediately?  What if they don't pay?  Second offense?

My plan, not that you asked, would be to have a system set up that doesn't work on the "honor" system since there are a lot of people without any.

On a positive note, the redline was so packed today, I couldn't even find a seat.  The two University Circle stops completely filled up the two cars at around 12:30.

So, gottaplan, what's your plan? How should RTA deal with these juvenile criminals? Nail them with the $50 fine immediately? What if they don't pay? Second offense?

 

Fair question.  I wouldn't mess with any monetary fines since they aren't likely to be paid and everyone is afraid of further impoverishing this group.  I would set up a Saturday morning work program and make these first offenders come to RTA stations, pick up trash, pull weeds, clean up graffiti, etc.  Repeat offenders get more work, sort of like detention.  Probably a much more effective deterent than a fine, teaches kids some work ethic, and also does a public service without costing the kids or parents.  That's all assuming the ACLU doesn't object of course.

Over dramatics?  I don't think so...  This reaction from RTA isn't even a slap on the wrist for the violators and both sides know it.  How can you realistically encourage people from the suburbs or otherwise to park their car and pay to take this system when that is RTA's approach?  You can't.  Don't brush off the comparisons to Detroit, it's the very same mentality and approach that crippled that city.

 

So now its a surburban vs. city thing?  Why did you even drag the city into this?  The city didn't make this decision!

 

I live in the city and I have to pay, I want everyone to pay.

The RTA cops were out in force today on the HealthLine. Cops on foot were busting fare jumpers and cops in cars were nailing motorists driving in bus-only lanes. How do you create order in society? By enforcing order.

 

On a positive note, the redline was so packed today, I couldn't even find a seat. The two University Circle stops completely filled up the two cars at around 12:30.

 

Were they CWRU students heading to the airport? Ya know, to their private jets? ;)

Is there a moderator on this site?

Yes.

So the new RTA policy basically says you can jump on the bus for free until you get caught, at which point nothing will happen.  You can continute to ride for free till you get caught again at which point you'll get a $50 fine, but nothing will probably happen if you don't pay that either.  As long as the city keeps protecting the rights of the underpriveleged, pretty soon that'll be all that's left.  Hello Detroit?

 

So, gottaplan, what's your plan?  How should RTA deal with these juvenile criminals?  Nail them with the $50 fine immediately?  What if they don't pay?  Second offense?

 

His plan is to not have 'these' juveniles ride the RTA at all.

 

Seriously, ease up folks.  It is still a crime to fare-jump.  RTA has no authority to change Ohio law.

Is there a moderator on this site?

 

For what?  This is a healthy back and forth that happens on all of these threads.  It hasn't gotten out of hand.  Yet :-)

Hts just gets pissy when people disagree with his all-knowing-mastery of all things urbane

Over dramatics?  I don't think so...  This reaction from RTA isn't even a slap on the wrist for the violators and both sides know it.  How can you realistically encourage people from the suburbs or otherwise to park their car and pay to take this system when that is RTA's approach?  You can't.  Don't brush off the comparisons to Detroit, it's the very same mentality and approach that crippled that city.

 

So now its a surburban vs. city thing?  Why did you even drag the city into this?  The city didn't make this decision!

 

I live in the city and I have to pay, I want everyone to pay.

 

MTS: the Tim Misny of RTA.

 

Seems like this is an economic decision. RTA should estimate how much they're losing in revenues annually from fare jumpers, then spend a portion of that on increased enforcement. If they're not going to regain enough revenue to cover the cost of 1 or 2 more transit cops on that line, then maybe this isn't really worth the commotion.

 

You're damn right!

 

Crack down on fares and you'll crack down on other crimes!

 

Send all the fare evaders to jail.  I don't want to hear sob stories about financial hardships!

 

Fare evaders know what's "right" and what is "wrong".

Things weren't getting pissy around here until people starting asking why a moderator was needed. I wasn't before, but I am now...

 

COOL IT FOLKS!

It's been said here before -- riding on RTA should be free within the core of the city anyway.

 

i agree with this. the whole system should be free.....to juveniles and adults. RTA costs too much money now, $4.50 just to get somewhere? if you ask me thats a lot and adds up. it was only a couple years ago you could buy an all day for 3, now its 5? thats a 67% increase. i actually thought they raised them to 4.50, guess they raised them again.

 

why is there no discount for frequent riders minus the month/week pass? in the past the 5-ride cards used to cost less per ride than a cash fare does. now, you just pay times 5. what about giving a discount to people who dont use RTA everyday (and buy a month or weekly) but travel frequently i.e. 3-4 a week or several times a month.

 

and as far as fare jumpers go, the cops usually harass regular people who actually have passes/paid their fare instead of the ones who actually board a bus and dont pay. i've seen it numerous times.

 

 

i'm actually debating getting a car because i dont see RTA making any effort to support people that want to live in cleveland car free. if the rapid transit system was not in place 50 years ago, we would not have trains.

 

 

Charlotte LYNX (the system that the former head of RTA is now in charge of) fares:

 

LYNX  $1.75 (2.25 for Red/Blue/Green line)

Weekly Pass* $17.50 (22.50 for RTA)

Monthly Pass* $70.00 (85.00 for RTA)

10-Ride Local Pass**  $15.00

10-Ride Express Pass** $20.00

 

Salt Lake City TRAX:

 

Monthly Pass $67

 

TRAX also has free fare zones within downtown SLC

 

 

 

 

also, does RTA ever have a free day?

I am living, for now, in Charlotte. I can tell you that you get what you pay for with CATS (Charlotte Area Transit System). The Lynx line is the only light rail line in Charlotte. It is inconveniently located to most of the population in Charlotte and ends in Uptown Charlotte. The Lynx system is not free at any time (at east I believe)although you wouldn't know that from the fare jumpers. Just now CATS has started to do ticket checks with $50 fines being handed out at the officers discretion. There were plans to extend this line out to UNCC but budget problems have forced the system to scale it back or axe it altogether.

 

The bus system is limited, especially in South Charlotte. Like most transit systems in the US since the great recession, CATS has cut back it's bus routes and schedules.

 

Charlotte has a trolley (actually a bus fashioned as a trolley called the Gold Rush) that runs free Uptown during the week.

 

Personally, RTA is a better system than what is in place in Charlotte. I know it has it's problems. I've rode very recently from Hopkins to Downtown. I experienced those problems first hand (fare jumpers, no indication the Waterfront line doesn't run during the week, old, nasty Red Line trains, etc) but, believe me, it's a better system than CATS! You can't even get to the airport via train in Charlotte!! You have to take buses.

Enforcing existing rules and doing the basics  I have mentioned before would do wonders for RTA.

Does RTA have a "student" monthly rate?  Maybe as that is extremely cost effective for these kids, but teaches them the value of playing by the rules.  How about a monthly student pass for $20?    How could board member Dixon spin that in a negative light?

 

 

Does RTA have a "student" monthly rate? Maybe as that is extremely cost effective for these kids, but teaches them the value of playing by the rules. How about a monthly student pass for $20? How could board member Dixon spin that in a negative light?

 

 

 

Maybe have some sort of program like Cleveland States U-Pass

Does RTA have a "student" monthly rate?

 

Students can buy student passes from the school they attend. The schools buy them from RTA in bulk and sell them to students, so I do not have the exact price amount. However, it is less than adult riders pay.

Does RTA have a "student" monthly rate? 

 

Students can buy student passes from the school they attend. The schools buy them from RTA in bulk and sell them to students, so I do not have the exact price amount. However, it is less than adult riders pay.

 

I am in no way excusing the youths from failing to pay their way, but herein lies the problem. 

 

Why can't a parent just buy a student pass on the website?  Why when I google RTA student pass does it talk about the Upass for college students (a good thing) but you cannot find a thing about a pass for high school students?  Why does the RTA website return no results when you search for student in the fare card section?

 

I can imagine how many parents send their $20 cash with little Johnny to school to buy a bus pass, only to have him spend the money on McDonalds, and jump fares on the bus to make up for his discretionary spending.

 

File this under the same planning that gave us the fare machines only accessible from ones knees....

 

 

You're assuming that each Cleveland school parent has a computer at home, or can get to a library after their second or third minimum-wage job of the day to access the web.

Also, the school district as a whole is in a better bargaining position with RTA than one kid's parents.  It also would not surprise me if the school district itself had a "need-based" program that issues at least some of the monthly passes for free.

Also, the school district as a whole is in a better bargaining position with RTA than one kid's parents.  It also would not surprise me if the school district itself had a "need-based" program that issues at least some of the monthly passes for free.

 

Valid point--along with KJP's. 

 

But still, you would think there would be readily accessible information in this day and age?  Why is there not a word mentioned when you search the word "student" on the RTA fare site?  It could at least say something about the partnership with the schools?

 

 

Also, the school district as a whole is in a better bargaining position with RTA than one kid's parents. It also would not surprise me if the school district itself had a "need-based" program that issues at least some of the monthly passes for free.

 

Valid point--along with KJP's.

 

But still, you would think there would be readily accessible information in this day and age? Why is there not a word mentioned when you search the word "student" on the RTA fare site? It could at least say something about the partnership with the schools?

 

 

 

There is a whole list that comes up when you search student. This being the first.

 

http://www.riderta.com/pro_student.asp

You're assuming that each Cleveland school parent has a computer at home, or can get to a library after their second or third minimum-wage job of the day to access the web.

 

Can we go easy on the stereotyping, please?

You're assuming that each Cleveland school parent has a computer at home, or can get to a library after their second or third minimum-wage job of the day to access the web.

 

Can we go easy on the stereotyping, please?

 

Its not really stereotyping when the average household income is only about $27,000

^ Sorry, but it is, and it's offensive.  A city's household income doesn't say squat about how many jobs people may be working, how many of those people have kids that are in school, any of it.

 

As far as I know, I'm the only person on this board who's experienced the CMSD firsthand as a student or a parent, and I'm sick of us all being painted with one brush.

<<Why can't a parent just buy a student pass on the Web site?>>

 

Why would RTA put a discount ticket on the Web site, where the whole world would have access to it, and thus invite fraud?

 

Every student has a school, and the school knows who its students are. Thus, schools sell student passes. This keeps discounted tickets away from those who are not eligible to buy them. It's elementary.

 

If we had done what you suggest, I can easily visualize a bunch of posts, with comments such as, "how stupid was that?"

 

^ Sorry, but it is, and it's offensive. A city's household income doesn't say squat about how many jobs people may be working, how many of those people have kids that are in school, any of it.

 

As far as I know, I'm the only person on this board who's experienced the CMSD firsthand as a student or a parent, and I'm sick of us all being painted with one brush.

 

It wasn't stereotyping.  You simply misread his post.  Are you trying to say that "each" Cleveland school parent has a computer and only works one job?  I think it is a safe bet to answer that question in the negative.

It wasn't stereotyping. You simply misread his post. Are you trying to say that "each" Cleveland school parent has a computer and only works one job? I think it is a safe bet to answer that question in the negative.

 

The part about two or three minimum-wage jobs certainly was.  If I said the same about your school district, there would be plenty of squawking on this board, and don't act like that's not true.

I realize that every city operates it's transportation systems differently and Cleveland is blessed with more options than Columbus. The ease in finding fare information is a different story. Just for the sake of discussion, here's Columbus' fare rate page.

 

http://www.cota.com/General-Fares.aspx

It wasn't stereotyping. You simply misread his post. Are you trying to say that "each" Cleveland school parent has a computer and only works one job? I think it is a safe bet to answer that question in the negative.

 

The part about two or three minimum-wage jobs certainly was. If I said the same about your school district, there would be plenty of squawking on this board, and don't act like that's not true.

 

I still think you are misinterpreting it.  I am sure there are some CMSD parent, and some in my school district as well, who work more than one minimum wage job.  Further, I don't find that to be an insult.  Sounds like some hard working folks to me, doing whatever is necessary to support their family.

I still think you are misinterpreting it.  I am sure there are some CMSD parent, and some in my school district as well, who work more than one minimum wage job.  Further, I don't find that to be an insult.  Sounds like some hard working folks to me, doing whatever is necessary to support their family.

 

Yes, there are SOME that do, but KJP said:

 

You're assuming that each Cleveland school parent ... can get to a library after their second or third minimum-wage job of the day to access the web.

 

Sounds like you're the one misinterpreting.  But that discussion was dropped till you dragged it back up this morning.  How about letting it go, and let KJP defend himself if he so chooses (and he did not last night.)

 

Back on topic.

 

I realize that every city operates it's transportation systems differently and Cleveland is blessed with more options than Columbus. The ease in finding fare information is a different story. Just for the sake of discussion, here's Columbus' fare rate page.

 

http://www.cota.com/General-Fares.aspx

 

RTA has a similar page:

 

http://www.riderta.com/fares/

 

It does take a number of clicks to get to, though, which is probably less-than-idea.

It wasn't stereotyping. You simply misread his post. Are you trying to say that "each" Cleveland school parent has a computer and only works one job? I think it is a safe bet to answer that question in the negative.

 

The part about two or three minimum-wage jobs certainly was. If I said the same about your school district, there would be plenty of squawking on this board, and don't act like that's not true.

 

You can pretend that Cleveland citizens can work only one job (the kind that is physically accessible to them) and make ends meet -- including raising their children. Or you can accept the reality that many single-parent households in the city (where 1 out of every 4 households has no car, and many more households have multiple wage earners who share one car) require their breadwinner to wake at 5 a.m., get their children to school and ride several buses to reach suburban jobs. And many of those jobs are crappy minimum wage jobs because we've failed to properly educate generations of Clevelanders.

 

Now, either you spend lots of time blasting me for exposing these as stereotypes, or you can accept them as indicators of a serious problem we have in Greater Cleveland in the lack of education, good jobs and transportation. And we can't deal with problems until we acknowledge them. I, for one, would prefer to not sweep these under an expedient rug called "stereotypes."

I realize that every city operates it's transportation systems differently and Cleveland is blessed with more options than Columbus. The ease in finding fare information is a different story. Just for the sake of discussion, here's Columbus' fare rate page.

 

http://www.cota.com/General-Fares.aspx

 

Funny you should say that...I've been meaning to post something about the fare info on RTA's website.  It's not only confusing, but out of date too.  $1.50 for a loop or trolley ride, hmmm: http://www.riderta.com/fares/

 

The transfer policy explained in the FAQ is particularly unhelpful for those not already familiar with the system:

 

1-ride and 2-ride farecards and cash fares have no transfer privileges. If you need to ride more than one RTA vehicle to reach your destination, you can save money by using a pass or a trip card. Each trip on a 1-trip, 2-trip, or 5-trip farecard includes a 2-1/2 hour free-transfer period valid on any route in the same fare category. A Bus/Rapid trip card within the 2-1/2 hour transfer period can be used on Park-N-Ride service upon payment of an additional $.25 per ride.

 

"1-ride" versus "1-trip" fare card?  Seriously?  Do these things cost the same?

You can pretend that Cleveland citizens can work only one job (the kind that is physically accessible to them) and make ends meet -- including raising their children. Or you can accept the reality that many single-parent households in the city (where 1 out of every 4 households has no car, and many more households have multiple wage earners who share one car) require their breadwinner to wake at 5 a.m., get their children to school and ride several buses to reach suburban jobs. And many of those jobs are crappy minimum wage jobs because we've failed to properly educate generations of Clevelanders.

 

Now, either you spend lots of time blasting me for exposing these as stereotypes, or you can accept them as indicators of a serious problem we have in Greater Cleveland in the lack of education, good jobs and transportation. And we can't deal with problems until we acknowledge them. I, for one, would prefer to not sweep these under an expedient rug called "stereotypes."

 

It is a serious problem.  But we're not all like that, so don't say that we are.

Sorry if I made it seem that way, but as you can tell from my latest post, it's not what believe or feel.

Sounds like you're the one misinterpreting.

 

<- See avatar

I (and others) read and contribute to these forums for the information, not for watching forumers get chippy with one another.

 

On topic, is there a plan in place to update the riderta.com website? It seems like it has been on the same iteration for a few years now (2005, if the footer is accurate), and it would be nice to better integrate it with Facebook and Twitter, both of which GCRTA seems to be using fairly frequently.

<<Why can't a parent just buy a student pass on the Web site?>>

 

Why would RTA put a discount ticket on the Web site, where the whole world would have access to it, and thus invite fraud?

 

Every student has a school, and the school knows who its students are. Thus, schools sell student passes. This keeps discounted tickets away from those who are not eligible to buy them. It's elementary.

 

If we had done what you suggest, I can easily visualize a bunch of posts, with comments such as, "how stupid was that?"

You put "Senior/Disabled" tickets online.

^ Yes, but you have to show an ID card that proves your age or your medical condition.

<<Is there a plan in place to update the riderta.com Web site? It seems like it has been on the same iteration for a few years now (2005, if the footer is accurate), and it would be nice to better integrate it with Facebook and Twitter, both of which GCRTA seems to be using fairly frequently.>>

 

Buttons for Facebook and Twitter have been added to most, if not all, Web pages, which is a far more realistic goal than re-doing it from top to bottom. To answer your question, there is no plan right now to completely redo the site, which changes daily. Our goal is to make sure accurate information is posted as quickly as possible, in a format that is easy-to-read. Thanks for asking,

Thanks for the reply, Jerry. I indeed saw the buttons, but just wanted to put a bug in your ear for when the website eventually is rebuilt. :-)

Also, the school district as a whole is in a better bargaining position with RTA than one kid's parents.  It also would not surprise me if the school district itself had a "need-based" program that issues at least some of the monthly passes for free.

 

Valid point--along with KJP's. 

 

But still, you would think there would be readily accessible information in this day and age?  Why is there not a word mentioned when you search the word "student" on the RTA fare site?  It could at least say something about the partnership with the schools?

 

 

 

There is a whole list that comes up when you search student. This being the first.

 

http://www.riderta.com/pro_student.asp

 

This is for the University Pass, which I've already stated is a good idea.  It appears to be mandatory included with student fees at CSU.  Also a good idea (for RTA, who appears to be having trouble getting students to pay anything).

<<Why can't a parent just buy a student pass on the Web site?>>

 

Why would RTA put a discount ticket on the Web site, where the whole world would have access to it, and thus invite fraud?

 

Every student has a school, and the school knows who its students are. Thus, schools sell student passes. This keeps discounted tickets away from those who are not eligible to buy them. It's elementary.

 

If we had done what you suggest, I can easily visualize a bunch of posts, with comments such as, "how stupid was that?"

 

 

I'm sorry, but I fail to see the argument in not advertising a student discount. 

 

1.  You advertise senior, disabled and UPass discounts for other recipients.

2.  You have a board member on public record worried about prosecuting youths for failing to pay anything.  Now THAT is truly a discount for the students.

3.  How do the students pay for these passes at their school?  If mom sends Johnny to school with a $20 for the bus pass and he spends it elsewhere, you can't blame the kid if RTA is not going to prosecute him for fare jumping.  Most kids would rather spend the money on McDonalds or a cell phone if they knew the system was going to let them off the hook.

I wonder how much fares are lost due to not paying. If we don't bother much to hold fare jumpers accountable, will we ever know?

^Perhaps you two missed RTA's board vote from last week on fare jumpers?