Send Jerry a note!  See what he can find out. 

EC, You're assuming that the defect is in other people. Now how is that an entire city is defective but you have such unique clarity and sanity?

^ I have just notified our Engineering staff, but please note that RTA operates a service, the HealthLine, and maintains the stations in the median strip. I believe the maintenance of a street and manhole covers are usually the responsibility of the city they are located in. I am checking to confirm.

For what it's worth (presumably very little), I too have noticed the clunks along Euclid Ave. (where I live and work), but it really doesn't bother me in the least. I chalk it up to sounds of the city that you grow immune to. It reminds me of when suburbanites look at me in awe, wondering how I can possibly sleep at night with all those bus sounds and sirens going off!

 

But of course I wouldn't miss it if it were remedied, either.

I am told that the City of Cleveland Streets Department was out repairing concrete around some manhole covers last week. FYI, the Euclid Corridor project was completed in sections, and the oldest section that RTA worked on is now 6 years old. Manhole covers over sewers are the responsibility of the City Department of Water Pollution Control. Manhole covers over electric vaults are the responsibility of Cleveland Public Power.

EC, You're assuming that the defect is in other people. Now how is that an entire city is defective but you have such unique clarity and sanity?

 

KJP - I love you!

Won't your man-friend get jealous??

Man-friend Mann? Sorry, had to.

Oy...

Won't your man-friend get jealous??

 

I've scanned through the forum seeing if this question has already been answered, but I haven't found anything.  I apologize in advance if I missed it.

 

Is RTA in the process of upgrading the destination signs on the Red Line cars?  It appears that all the signs have been removed and now there's just simple place cards in the front windows.

Joe Calabrese and eight RTA managers will be at the Tower City Station to talk to customers from 6-9 a.m. Tuesday, Aug. 30. Please stop by.

 

You can talk about any topic you wish. They want to talk to you about 3 key topics:

1. RTA rail service and repairs to the damage made by lightning in July.

2. Extra rail service on Sunday, Sept. 11, when downtown hosts 3 major events (1 pm Browns, 5:30 pm concert, 6-9pm Praisefest at Q).

3. The viaduct construction project, set for October.

 

Similar events are being planned at other key RTA facilities. Dates will be announced.

 

Excuse my ignorance, but... viaduct construction project?

^ Because of maintenance and repairs to the rail viaduct over the Cuyahoga River,  the viaduct cannot be used for several days. Buses will take passengers from the West 25th Street Station to Tower City. Obviously, we looked for days of lowest impact. We picked the three days of Columbus Day holiday weekend, and the Friday and Tuesday surrounding it.

It seems to me that when RTA holds public meetings that they do not want the public to attend. A perfect example is the public meetings for the West Side Transit Center. The April meeting announcement was posted on the RTA website about a day or so before the meeting was held, instead of at least two weeks. The July 21st meeting wasn't even publicised! I only found out about this meeting when I spoke to Mr. Schipper yesterday. It seems that a few members of the staff and the consultant need to have a little "Come to Jesus" talk.  :whip:

Redirected discussion of the University Circle RTA station to the appropriate thread, at:

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,6956.0.html

Is RTA in the process of upgrading the destination signs on the Red Line cars?  It appears that all the signs have been removed and now there's just simple place cards in the front windows.

 

Mike York, deputy general manager, Operations: "The problem with the destination signs in the Red Line cars is two-fold:

 

1. Many of the motors that advance the roller-type destinations signs are bad and we can't find a replacement motor.

 

2. The gears that move the rollers are bad on some cars.  If we can't find replacement motors and gears, the alternative is a simple sign in the sign window that says Red Line."

 

Is RTA in the process of upgrading the destination signs on the Red Line cars?  It appears that all the signs have been removed and now there's just simple place cards in the front windows.

 

Mike York, deputy general manager, Operations: "The problem with the destination signs in the Red Line cars is two-fold:

 

1. Many of the motors that advance the roller-type destinations signs are bad and we can't find a replacement motor.

 

2. The gears that move the rollers are bad on some cars.  If we can't find replacement motors and gears, the alternative is a simple sign in the sign window that says Red Line."

 

 

How about a completely new sign system then, since the old ones are apparently not fixable. It seems unacceptable to put a paper sign in a window of a system like this. Very amateurish.

I moved my question to the following location (click on the quote's title)....

 

Is there any planning being developed for a major rehab of the Red Line's Tokyu cars, as was recently done for the Blue/Green Line's Breda cars?

 

Of course, my preference is for a standardized fleet for all rail lines -- including having the ability to operate as a dual-mode vehicle so the trains can operate "cordless."

Is RTA in the process of upgrading the destination signs on the Red Line cars?  It appears that all the signs have been removed and now there's just simple place cards in the front windows.

 

Mike York, deputy general manager, Operations: "The problem with the destination signs in the Red Line cars is two-fold:

 

1. Many of the motors that advance the roller-type destinations signs are bad and we can't find a replacement motor.

 

2. The gears that move the rollers are bad on some cars.  If we can't find replacement motors and gears, the alternative is a simple sign in the sign window that says Red Line."

 

 

How about a completely new sign system then, since the old ones are apparently not fixable. It seems unacceptable to put a paper sign in a window of a system like this. Very amateurish.

 

or at least a program to install the LED destination signs that are on all of the buses.

^Laminated paper signs held up in the window by clear suction cups on your city's rapid transit system... "amateurish" isn't even the word.  Red Line cars haven't been renovated, but Blue-Green cars have, and I'm shocked RTA didn't switch these to LED signs like practically every new and renovated rail cars w/in the last decade has done.

^ clvlndr, your answer is not totally accurate. RTA has been renovating the Red Line cars, and will continue to do so through the end of 2012.

 

However, the renovation has not addressed the signage issue, simply because motors for roller-type signs are not manufactured anymore. The cost of replacing all the signs on the each train ($4,000+ per sign) is not cost-effective, especially when one considers that each Red Line has only 1 of 4 destinations -- Airport, Brookpark, Tower City and Windermere. There are large eastbound and westbound signs at each station, for those who are new to the system.

 

The current sign system is a temporary fix. There are several other options, and RTA is exploring them now. Thanks for sharing your concern,

There was some earlier interest here about repairs to the tracks on the Cuyahoga River viaduct. Here is some additional info, from a flier that was passed out Tuesday at Tower City.

 

1. Scheduled for Saturday-Wednesday, Oct. 8-12, the weekend of the Columbus Day holiday.

 

2. The entire bridge will be shut down; it is not safe to single track.

 

3. Replacement buses will take Red Line passengers from W. 25th Street to Tower City and downtown.

 

4. Plan on some delays.

^^Jerry...glad to see that RTA thinks these issues through and attempts to spend taxpayer funds wisely.

i got a few $5 day passes recently on a visit home and that went very well. no problem getting them or using them whatsoever. busses, trains, healthline all came quickly and it was very smooth. hats off to rta!

 

question -- i saw rta has a goal to do this, but is there any timeline for transitioning to icc/smartcard technology as yet?

 

 

I've been in touch with RTA about this and got a "not anytime soon" response... Can't wait, though!

Nice article on the greening of RTA!

 

http://www.gcbl.org/blog/marc-lefkowitz/rta-embraces-sustainability-challenge-sets-aggressive-targets

^ I think you mean "all-day passes." I am glad to hear things went well.

 

Phase 2 of the project (smart cards) will be introduced when Phase 1 is complete.

 

RTA is working with the vending machine manufacturer to simplfy the screen flow and make the tickets easier to purchase.

 

When the new screen flow is installed and working well, Phase 1 will be complete. I do not have a timeline on that.

I will be even more of a RTA addict when those smart cards are installed.

 

Any updates being made that will show a live schedule of bus routes, particularly the Rapid and Healthline? I know Chicago and Minneapolis have a way of seeing real-time updates of where buses are. Would be great to have that here!

Any updates being made that will show a live schedule of bus routes, particularly the Rapid and HealthLine? I know Chicago and Minneapolis have a way of seeing real-time updates of where buses are. Would be great to have that here!

 

As you may know, all RTA vehicles are equipped with GPS. Our bus and rail dispatchers already receive real-time updates. In the future, RTA -- and most transit systems in the country -- would like to extend that access to everyone. However, as if often the case, our "wish list" is far greater than our "budget list," so I cannot say when that might happen. Thanks for the comment.

Hmmmm, there's got to be a way to set something basic up. A flash website that shows dots on a map or just some way of broadcasting the GPS signal publicly that wouldn't cost as much as the ideal system RTA is working toward.

 

Many that don't live in Cleveland but attended the RTA Bar Crawl were impressed with how expansive the system is. The only negative comment was on smart cards and real-time updates. Next time I'll be sure to use the Healthline, since that seems to run very frequently and definitely gives a nice urban vibe!

When the new screen flow is installed and working well, Phase 1 will be complete. I do not have a timeline on that.

 

Thanks for the info, Jerry.  From the outside, it seems kind of preposterous that years after the machines were deployed the screen flow hasn't already been fixed (when really, it shouldn't have been so bad to need a fix in the first place).  I'm guessing not, but is there any kind of simple explanation for why this has taken so long? 

 

I know this isn't constructive, because you've heard it here before, but IMHO, between the hardware and the software, the ticket machines have been a long embarrassing blunder for RTA, which smart cards can only partly fix.  And it's not clear how much of this can be blamed on funding.  If nothing else, I hope it's caused RTA to rethink how it deploys new user interfaces should other changes come down the line.

Any updates being made that will show a live schedule of bus routes, particularly the Rapid and HealthLine? I know Chicago and Minneapolis have a way of seeing real-time updates of where buses are. Would be great to have that here!

 

As you may know, all RTA vehicles are equipped with GPS. Our bus and rail dispatchers already receive real-time updates. In the future, RTA -- and most transit systems in the country -- would like to extend that access to everyone. However, as if often the case, our "wish list" is far greater than our "budget list," so I cannot say when that might happen. Thanks for the comment.

 

In fact, the RTA board of trustees has already approved the purchase of the software module needed for allowing real time information to be posted to the web at the May 17, 2011 full board meeting http://www.riderta.com/newsroom/releases/index.asp?listingid=1585, reads in pertinent part, "2011-41 – Authorizing Contract No. 2011-066 with Trapeze ITS for the purchase and installationof TransitMaster Webwatch in an amount not to exceed $173,000.00 (RTA Development Fund, Service Management Department budget)"

 

 

This will get the data on the web, available to the public.  Out of the box, this software is a bit clunky.  Hopefully it will be extended to other mobile device apps.  There was originally talk of having real time information live in June or July, but I don't think the implementation has even started yet.    Basically, what RTA is getting out of the box with the new software will look like this:  http://gis.pacebus.com/webwatch/

 

RTA is also one of the largest, or perhaps largest transit system, using this particular scheduling software, so unfortunately there aren't a lot of mobile phone apps that can be extended from other other cities using this new data feed.  Hopefully the local development community will be able to work on something that can use the webwatch real time data.

I am hoping that RTA uses open data.  It seems that this would be ideal and create the best possible real time system.  This link explains it better than I can.

http://www.streetfilms.org/a-case-for-open-data-in-transit/

 

Hmmmm, there's got to be a way to set something basic up. A flash website that shows dots on a map or just some way of broadcasting the GPS signal publicly that wouldn't cost as much as the ideal system RTA is working toward.

 

 

Its not quite that simple.  There are entire companies built around providing this service.  There are a vast amount of variables than need to be decided before something like this can be rolled out.  Such as, are all routes shown or just a handful?  If just a handful, which ones.  Does the system show just the location or when the bus is stopped as well.  And a boat load of other questions.  Then there is also what type of system is currently being used to track the buses/rail and is it compatible with whatever front end application is being used.  If not that creates another layer that has to be added on before the information even makes it to the Flash map.

 

In short, its never as easy as it looks.

I am hoping that RTA uses open data.  It seems that this would be ideal and create the best possible real time system.  This link explains it better than I can.

http://www.streetfilms.org/a-case-for-open-data-in-transit/

 

that's the rub.  RTA seems to have committed to making whatever real time data they have available publicly for others to possibly use.  However, it isn't clear that the WebWatch platform is using any sort of open data standard, and this could be one of the reasons that no other transit system that I have looked that user Trapeze and WebWatch has any mobile apps available.  It could also be that many of these cities are smaller transit systems than Cleveland's.

I am not sure why RTA doesn't copy other larger transit agencies when taking on certain projects.  The vending fiasco could have been avoided by seeing how other agencies do this.  The real time information software is the same issue.  There must be a reason that no other large agency is using the software.

^I've wondered the same thing.  With all the transit vending machines already out there to learn from, some terrible, some great, it's seems weird RTA would end up with a terrible one.

I am not sure why RTA doesn't copy other larger transit agencies when taking on certain projects.  The vending fiasco could have been avoided by seeing how other agencies do this.  The real time information software is the same issue.  There must be a reason that no other large agency is using the software.

 

My guess regarding this is that Trapeze ITS is already their vendor, they provide the GPS info that RTA uses.  It is usually cheaper to have the company that is doing the backend information to do the front end too, if they have the capability. 

 

Granted Trapeze WebWatch does appear to be extremely clunky as Urbanlife said. 

I am not sure why RTA doesn't copy other larger transit agencies when taking on certain projects.  The vending fiasco could have been avoided by seeing how other agencies do this.  The real time information software is the same issue.  There must be a reason that no other large agency is using the software.

 

there is 1 huge reason - cost is a primary driver in the decision, and not necessarily functionality or customer facing elements.

 

- the "better" fare machines that you see in other cities are likely twice the cost of the ones that RTA chose - but you can really tell that they are better, with touchsreens, color coding, a customer friendly process, etc.  i'm not sure it made sense to go the cheapest route with the machines.

- trapeze, RTA's scheduling system (or maybe it has a new name now, as this company seems to change names a lot) for better or worse was installed at RTA a long time ago, before mobile apps and a lot of the other features many riders expect today.  to install an entirely new scheduling system that would have better data export capabilities, would probably cost at least $20 million.  That probably won't happen, so we get patches to the current system, and we will eventually get some ability to see real time data.

That probably won't happen, so we get patches to the current system, and we will eventually get some ability to see real time data.

 

If Des Moines can publish their GPS data to the web with that system, there's no excuse we shouldn't be (especially if RTA has already purchased the software and already has the GPS installed).  Yes, the website is clunky and in general pretty much sucks, but it's still a million times better than having nothing.

That probably won't happen, so we get patches to the current system, and we will eventually get some ability to see real time data.

 

If Des Moines can publish their GPS data to the web with that system, there's no excuse we shouldn't be (especially if RTA has already purchased the software and already has the GPS installed).  Yes, the website is clunky and in general pretty much sucks, but it's still a million times better than having nothing.

 

That may be why we haven't seen anything yet.  As RTA is likely their biggest customer they may be suggesting that a new web interface be created.  Call it learning from the POS/Vending machine fiasco.

That probably won't happen, so we get patches to the current system, and we will eventually get some ability to see real time data.

 

If Des Moines can publish their GPS data to the web with that system, there's no excuse we shouldn't be (especially if RTA has already purchased the software and already has the GPS installed).  Yes, the website is clunky and in general pretty much sucks, but it's still a million times better than having nothing.

 

That may be why we haven't seen anything yet.  As RTA is likely their biggest customer they may be suggesting that a new web interface be created.  Call it learning from the POS/Vending machine fiasco.

 

anything is possible, but i can pretty much guarantee that what we will see in cleveland is going to look exactly like the pace link above, except that it will have rta colors and an rta web address.  see long beach, also using trapeze webwatch:

http://webwatch.lbtransit.com/webwatch/

 

we haven't seen anything yet becuase it took months to get the contract finalized and to schedule the installation on site.  once the software is installed, there will be a period of debugging and tweaking rta data to make sure it is accurate.

 

anything that is customized will be done by a 3d party developer

i probably have a lot more transit use exerience than most people in general, but still i did not think the fare machines were that awful. only two things stood out: the first issue you all know well - you have to go thru too many screens to get done. that would suck for non or limited english language speakers. also, the day passes came out stamped and activated even tho it was not clear i wanted to do that when i bought the card. that could be problematic. otherwise, no problems.

 

one more thing - even as a heavy transit user, i drive like twice a year lol, i am not big on caring about arrival time postings. an app would be fine and would save rta a lot of loot.

i probably have a lot more transit use exerience than most people in general, but still i did not think the fare machines were that awful. only two things stood out: the first issue you all know well - you have to go thru too many screens to get done. that would suck for non or limited english language speakers. also, the day passes came out stamped and activated even tho it was not clear i wanted to do that when i bought the card. that could be problematic. otherwise, no problems.

 

one more thing - even as a heavy transit user, i drive like twice a year lol, i am not big on caring about arrival time postings. an app would be fine and would save rta a lot of loot.

 

I can't stand Cleveland's fare machines.  I think they're horribly ugly and user hostile.  BUT I definitely think DC has worse ones.  In DC, you have to find your destination on this massive chart and then do math to figure out how much you think you're supposed to pay.  Then there are these odd little toggle switches to  input a price.  Every time I go, I end up yelling at security about what I thought I purchased and they end up letting me through without the proper fare.  It's a disaster. In Cleveland, I'm at least able to choose between a couple of simple fares.

 

^To each his own, I think Cleveland's machines are worse than DC's. It took me a couple minutes the first time I used one of those, where as in Cleveland, I tend to give up and find a way to buy a pass from a person.

I hate the DC ones too, but aren't they like 30 years old?  Machines have come a long way since then.  The other issue with the Cleveland machines (which people have already mentioned here often) is their height and screen orientation.  RTA reports that it was necessary for ADA purposes, but it's hard to believe there wasn't a better solution.  At the very least, in the few places where there are multiple machines (there are some places, right?), only one should be at the low height.

 

one more thing - even as a heavy transit user, i drive like twice a year lol, i am not big on caring about arrival time postings. an app would be fine and would save rta a lot of loot.

 

I'm pretty sure RTA's arrival time LED screens are completely paid for by adds so don't cost them anything.  I'd also guess that most people disagree with you about wanting arrival time info even though I completely understand your point.  Unless it's an MTA express v. local decision, it's not like I'm going to change my mind once I've paid and am standing on the platform.  Does seem to make the wait go faster though.

I'm pretty sure RTA's arrival time LED screens are completely paid for by adds so don't cost them anything. 

 

Correct. They were installed and paid for by the vendor. And I believe RTA gets a cut. There was also a proposal for RTA to install TV screens inside the trains that would display ads as well as service information and news about events coming to town, etc. I think that was to be vendor-paid too, but I never heard what happened with that.

 

EDIT: here's where it was first discussed on UO... http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,4504.msg102700.html#msg102700

 

I'd also guess that most people disagree with you about wanting arrival time info even though I completely understand your point.  Unless it's an MTA express v. local decision, it's not like I'm going to change my mind once I've paid and am standing on the platform.  Does seem to make the wait go faster though.

 

I like having the "next train" info at stations. People who feel the need to know, or impatient people, can have their concerns eased by those signs. :)

RTA reports that it was necessary for ADA purposes, but it's hard to believe there wasn't a better solution.  At the very least, in the few places where there are multiple machines (there are some places, right?), only one should be at the low height.

 

I agree.  Also, how do other transit systems comply with ADA regulations without making their machines nearly impossible to use for about 95% of the population?

^We should conduct an informal survey of NYC, Boston, DC, SF, Chicago and other places represented by UOers.  I suspect the other systems do it through multiple machines, with one ADA accessible one and the rest normal height.  Someone mentioned way upthread (Jerry or urbanlife I think) that RTA couldn't afford multiple machines at every Red Line and Health Line station, so only one model of machines (the ADA accessible one) was purchased and deployed.  I'd be very curious to know the marginal costs of installing second machines at the stations and which stations already have more than one.