They were both in the wrong.  She should be arrested and he should be fired.

 

Wonder what the ATU defense of him will be. 

 

Honestly though, sometimes when I ride I don't know how this doesn't happen more often.

 

Seems like things get real close to this point pretty often, actually.  I ride the bus pretty infrequently, and I've seen this basic shouting match a number of times, though the uppercut was something I haven't seen before.

I ride the 55 mostly, and most of its passengers are pretty well behaved. The other routes I ride often are the HealthLine, the Red Line and the trolleys where there is little or no interaction between passengers and driver (thanks to the proof-of-payment system, or the fare-free situation on the trolleys).

 

And I still haven't watched the video. I have no desire to watch people fighting.

Last time I saw it was on the Healthline a couple of weeks ago.  Someone's stop was missed, so he threatened the bus driver' life, and made everyone wait while he threw his little hissy fit.  Give the driver credit, he simply sat there and took it.  Public transit would be much nicer if so many of the people didn't act like animals.

Last time I saw it was on the Healthline a couple of weeks ago.  Someone's stop was missed, so he threatened the bus driver' life, and made everyone wait while he threw his little hissy fit.  Give the driver credit, he simply sat there and took it.  Public transit would be much nicer if so many of the people didn't act like animals.

 

I hope its a part of the driver training how to defuse and avoid these situations.    They should also have a little button they can push that automatically sends the transit cops without saying a word.  That's what I would have done with that woman---had a couple squad cars meet her at the next stop!   

 

It is sad that "ghetto bravado" has become such a part of our culture in both males and females.  Honestly I still can't believe he hit a woman--it would take much more than being spit on for me to consider.  I'd have to be defending my life.  I would have been content to see her go to jail.

The man was attacked and he responded. Her actions could have jeapordized a lot of people's lives. I am NOT saying he's a hero, but she is in no way a victim. Just a roothless, ignorant piece of trash. This is why we have jury nullification, if this should go to criminal trial

Just a roothless, ignorant piece of trash.

 

"Ruthless"

 

-- The English police  :police:

This is probably old news to some Browns season ticket holders, but I just saw this tonight. I suspect we'll see more of these "station ad wraps" like the bus ad wraps that have been around for years. I think it's a creative revenue source, and I would support this more especially if the ads are topical to what's at/near the station. This is at the West Third Street/Cleveland Browns Stadium station on the light-rail Waterfront Line.....

 

The woman who was hit, speaks out in this interview with Fox 8.

 

http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshh11grUkyeRZZH4tXl

oh my god, my eyes just rolled out of my head.

 

"You were on the receiving end of one of most the most talked about uppercuts"

 

What kind of statement is that???

^^^ That should be a Great Lakes wrap, get that Pittsburgh beer out of my city. Come on GLB  step it up.

^^^ That should be a Great Lakes wrap, get that Pittsburgh beer out of my city. Come on GLB  step it up.

 

I always think of Yuengling as more a Philly beer--it comes from the eastern part of the state.  Now if that was an Iron City wrap, them would be fighting words!

The man was attacked and he responded. Her actions could have jeapordized a lot of people's lives. I am NOT saying he's a hero, but she is in no way a victim. Just a roothless, ignorant piece of trash. This is why we have jury nullification, if this should go to criminal trial

 

Co-sign. 

 

And fair or unfair, this type incident is a big part of why public transportation has lost popularity.  Just one more thing on the long list of areas of society that pervasive ghetto culture has ruined for everyone else.  Very sad.

I don't know, I'd say American culture and the "need" for everyone to have their own car as well as building an environment that is less and less dense therefore not conducive to transit over the last 60-70 years is what has ruined it, or at least crippled it. People like that have probable always rode public transportation. Today's social media and video phones with internet allows everyone to see it quicker, in ways that were impossible 40, 20 or even 5 years ago.

 

And fair or unfair, this type incident is a big part of why public transportation has lost popularity. 

 

 

How has public transportation lost popularity when more Americans are riding in numbers seen only once since the Interstate highway program was started in 1956?

 

Use of Public Transit Grew in 2011, Report Indicates

By MICHAEL COOPER

Published: March 12, 2012

 

In another indication that more people are getting back to work, Americans took 200 million more rides last year on subways, commuter trains, light-rail systems and public buses than they did the year before, according to a new report by a leading transit association.

 

Americans took 10.4 billion rides on public transportation in 2011 — a billion more than they took in 2000, and the second most since 1957, according to a report being released Monday by the American Public Transportation Association, a nonprofit organization that represents transit systems. The increase in ridership came after the recession contributed to declines in the previous two years.

 

With the return of jobs came a return of straphangers. Studies have found that nearly 60 percent of transit rides are taken by people commuting to and from work, and there were big increases in ridership in parts of the country that gained employment. And with the price of gas rising again — the $4 gallon has already returned in some states — many systems are bracing for even more riders this year.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/12/us/use-of-public-transit-rose-in-2011-report-says.html?_r=2&partner=rss&emc=rss&

 

 

Americans driving less, using public transit more, report says

POSTED:  04/06/2012 01:00:00 AM MDT

By Monte Whaley

The Denver Post

 

Ean Tafoya is a lot like other members of Generation Y who regard owning a car as nothing more than a big pain.

 

"I just sold my car. I just wasn't using it," said Tafoya, a senior at Metropolitan State College of Denver. "I live next to City Park. I bike. I ride the bus to get where I need to go. And gas prices are just too high. I figured I didn't need a car anymore."

 

A report released Thursday by CoPIRG — the Colorado Public Interest Research Group Foundation — found Tafoya is not alone in his indifference toward cars and trucks. The report says that for the first time since World War II, Americans are driving less and have been doing so since the middle of the last decade, with vehicle miles traveled per capita down 6 percent.

 

The ones really shifting their driving habits are people ages 16 to 34. The average young person, the report said, drove 20 percent fewer miles in 2009 than the average young person in 2001.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_20337781/americans-driving-less-using-public-transit-more-report

Two things:

 

1) The population has grown by over 30 million people since 2000, so looking at an increase in ridership numbers needs some context (like a percentage of population using public transport).

 

2) Ignoring that first point, one year does not a trend make.

 

If you want me to clarify my comment, I will (because I respect your work on this issue and where you're coming from here): Numbers aside, incidents like the Mortal Kombat moment on the bus are exactly why public transportation will never be a legitimate day-to-day option for many people, particularly those in this region who are middle-class and above.

You're both right.

 

2) Ignoring that first point, one year does not a trend make.

 

Numbers aside, incidents like the Mortal Kombat moment on the bus are exactly why public transportation will never be a legitimate day-to-day option for many people, particularly those in this region who are middle-class and above.

 

U.S. Transit Ridership (000's)

 

I realize you don't follow this issue closely, so you probably don't know that this is not a one year trend (see above). But I wish you would look up some numbers before sharing an opinion on something. Otherwise a simple "I don't know" is one of the bravest things anyone can say. If population growth was the only reason why transit ridership is growing, than that doesn't explain the drop in miles-driven since 2003.

 

And I love your double standard. Have you ever been in or seen a road-rage incident? I know I have, too many times. And I suspect many middle-class residents have, although maybe they felt safer getting into such an road-rage incident with a white person driving a Lexus in the suburbs than with a black person on a bus. All things being equal, I feel safer on transit than I do on I-480 during rush hour.

Numbers aside, incidents like the Mortal Kombat moment on the bus are exactly why public transportation will never be a legitimate day-to-day option for many people, particularly those in this region who are middle-class and above.

 

I totally disagree.  If you make public transportation convenient, it will draw the middle class and above in this region.  I have not rode public transportation regularly for years due to my current job but in the 80's and 90's I rode it 90% of the time to commute and to attend events downtown due to where I lived (Shaker Hts. and University Hts.).  At that time, on the Shaker Rapid 50-60% of the patrons were high wage earners, their kids and to a lesser extent their wives (not to be sexist, some of the high wager earners were the wives).  Many were colleagues of mine who earned six figure salaries (a lot at the time). 

 

I would say this is a far estimate (50-60%)even though the rapid went through some of the poorest neighborhoods in Cleveland so it also attracted lower income riders.  Some of the riders ended up going as far as Chagrin Falls on the number 5 including me for a time.

 

The Shaker Rapid is unusual in Cleveland but again it proves that if it is convenient the upper class will take public transportation even in Cleveland

I've never seen a road rage incident end in violence.  I'm sure it happens, maybe it's even on YouTube somewhere, I've just never seen it.

 

In regards to the numbers, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong.  I just want to see percentage ridership over the past decade and a half.  The raw numbers are not enough to convince me at this point.

 

My comments are not supposed to be an indictment of public transportation, a service that I fully support.  It's a knock against the ghetto culture that plays a huge role in dragging this region down in almost all aspects of society.  Admittedly I'll shift the goalposts here a bit, but even if I accept that ridership has grown in recent years, I think it could be even higher and an even more attractive option if the ghetto culture that uses the service extensively were non-existent.  I don't know if there's any more that RTA could be doing, but maybe they need more a zero tolerance protocol for the type of behavior that lead to this event.  The bus driver certainly didn't respond as he should have, but there's no reason why he or any other RTA employee should have to put up with that kind of nonsense.

Numbers aside, incidents like the Mortal Kombat moment on the bus are exactly why public transportation will never be a legitimate day-to-day option for many people, particularly those in this region who are middle-class and above.

 

I totally disagree.  If you make public transportation convenient, it will draw the middle class and above in this region.  I have not rode public transportation regularly for years due to my current job but in the 80's and 90's I rode it 90% of the time to commute and to attend events downtown due to where I lived (Shaker Hts. and University Hts.).  At that time, on the Shaker Rapid 50-60% of the patrons were high wage earners, their kids and to a lesser extent their wives (not to be sexist, some of the high wager earners were the wives).  Many were colleagues of mine who earned six figure salaries (a lot at the time). 

 

I would say this is a far estimate (50-60%)even though the rapid went through some of the poorest neighborhoods in Cleveland so it also attracted lower income riders.  Some of the riders ended up going as far as Chagrin Falls on the number 5 including me for a time.

 

The Shaker Rapid is unusual in Cleveland but again it proves that if it is convenient the upper class will take public transportation even in Cleveland

 

There's something about the train that's different.  I won't try to put my finger on why, but the middle- and upper-classes do seem to be more comfortable riding the rails than buses.  Heck I'll even ride the train a few times a year. ;)

I totally disagree.  If you make public transportation convenient, it will draw the middle class and above in this region. 

 

....The Shaker Rapid is unusual in Cleveland but again it proves that if it is convenient the upper class will take public transportation even in Cleveland

 

Same goes for the 55 bus from Bay Village, Westlake, Rocky River, Lakewood and Cleveland's Edgewater neighborhood. Even though RTA reduced the off-peak service, it's still very frequent during rush hours and continues to draw office workers, including some very well-dressed executive-types. This is also very typical of the Flyer bus services to the suburban park-n-rides, plus Laketran, Akron Metro RTA, PARTA and Lorain County Transit buses. Go stand along Superior during rush hour and see whose waiting for the bus. Or even on the Red Line-west. It's not the stereotypical transit rider some seem to think comprise the bulk of ridership.

 

For example, here's a recent photo I shot on the Red Line during rush hour two weeks ago. A nice mix of people.....

 

Cleveland representing! lol. It would be nice to see more american flags at the top of that list. Some of those ridership numbers are crazy

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metro_systems_by_annual_passenger_rides

I've never seen a road rage incident end in violence.  I'm sure it happens, maybe it's even on YouTube somewhere, I've just never seen it.

 

In regards to the numbers, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong.  I just want to see percentage ridership over the past decade and a half.  The raw numbers are not enough to convince me at this point.

 

My comments are not supposed to be an indictment of public transportation, a service that I fully support.  It's a knock against the ghetto culture that plays a huge role in dragging this region down in almost all aspects of society.  Admittedly I'll shift the goalposts here a bit, but even if I accept that ridership has grown in recent years, I think it could be even higher and an even more attractive option if the ghetto culture that uses the service extensively were non-existent.  I don't know if there's any more that RTA could be doing, but maybe they need more a zero tolerance protocol for the type of behavior that lead to this event.  The bus driver certainly didn't respond as he should have, but there's no reason why he or any other RTA employee should have to put up with that kind of nonsense.

 

I don't think the "Ghetto culture" as you call it is the main problem. People can be crazy. Whether driving, walking, riding a bike or a train or bus. If ppl want to avoid the craziness that can exist in the World at times then they should just stay home.

I've never seen a road rage incident end in violence.  I'm sure it happens, maybe it's even on YouTube somewhere, I've just never seen it.

 

In regards to the numbers, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong.  I just want to see percentage ridership over the past decade and a half.  The raw numbers are not enough to convince me at this point.

 

My comments are not supposed to be an indictment of public transportation, a service that I fully support.  It's a knock against the ghetto culture that plays a huge role in dragging this region down in almost all aspects of society.  Admittedly I'll shift the goalposts here a bit, but even if I accept that ridership has grown in recent years, I think it could be even higher and an even more attractive option if the ghetto culture that uses the service extensively were non-existent.  I don't know if there's any more that RTA could be doing, but maybe they need more a zero tolerance protocol for the type of behavior that lead to this event.  The bus driver certainly didn't respond as he should have, but there's no reason why he or any other RTA employee should have to put up with that kind of nonsense.

 

I don't think the "Ghetto culture" as you call it is the main problem. People can be crazy. Whether driving, walking, riding a bike or a train or bus. If ppl want to avoid the craziness that can exist in the World at times then they should just stay home.

 

We have to be able to admit there's a problem before we can solve the problem.

 

And in regards to KJP's post about, maybe it's only an eastside bus issue.

I've never seen a road rage incident end in violence.  I'm sure it happens, maybe it's even on YouTube somewhere, I've just never seen it.

 

In regards to the numbers, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong.  I just want to see percentage ridership over the past decade and a half.  The raw numbers are not enough to convince me at this point.

 

My comments are not supposed to be an indictment of public transportation, a service that I fully support.  It's a knock against the ghetto culture that plays a huge role in dragging this region down in almost all aspects of society.  Admittedly I'll shift the goalposts here a bit, but even if I accept that ridership has grown in recent years, I think it could be even higher and an even more attractive option if the ghetto culture that uses the service extensively were non-existent.  I don't know if there's any more that RTA could be doing, but maybe they need more a zero tolerance protocol for the type of behavior that lead to this event.  The bus driver certainly didn't respond as he should have, but there's no reason why he or any other RTA employee should have to put up with that kind of nonsense.

 

I don't think the "Ghetto culture" as you call it is the main problem. People can be crazy. Whether driving, walking, riding a bike or a train or bus. If ppl want to avoid the craziness that can exist in the World at times then they should just stay home.

 

I agree and people should be very careful when they use the word "ghetto" as its often used in place of another word or used to describe a group of people based on an assumption.

I've never seen a road rage incident end in violence.  I'm sure it happens, maybe it's even on YouTube somewhere, I've just never seen it.

 

In regards to the numbers, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong.  I just want to see percentage ridership over the past decade and a half.  The raw numbers are not enough to convince me at this point.

 

My comments are not supposed to be an indictment of public transportation, a service that I fully support.  It's a knock against the ghetto culture that plays a huge role in dragging this region down in almost all aspects of society.  Admittedly I'll shift the goalposts here a bit, but even if I accept that ridership has grown in recent years, I think it could be even higher and an even more attractive option if the ghetto culture that uses the service extensively were non-existent.  I don't know if there's any more that RTA could be doing, but maybe they need more a zero tolerance protocol for the type of behavior that lead to this event.  The bus driver certainly didn't respond as he should have, but there's no reason why he or any other RTA employee should have to put up with that kind of nonsense.

 

I don't think the "Ghetto culture" as you call it is the main problem. People can be crazy. Whether driving, walking, riding a bike or a train or bus. If ppl want to avoid the craziness that can exist in the World at times then they should just stay home.

 

We have to be able to admit there's a problem before we can solve the problem.

 

And in regards to KJP's post about, maybe it's only an eastside bus issue.

 

 

I never said there wasn't a problem, I said its not the main problem. To say the current state of mass transit in this country is because of one problem is absolutely ridiculous.

We have to be able to admit there's a problem before we can solve the problem.

 

Then acknowledge that the problem exists beyond the transit system.

 

And in regards to KJP's post about, maybe it's only an eastside bus issue.

 

That's not what I said. Why would you leap to such a conclusion?

Folks, take it to PM.

So what's the status on the updated Red Line cars? I'm anxious to see them!!!!! :-P

I never said there wasn't a problem, I said its not the main problem. To say the current state of mass transit in this country is because of one problem is absolutely ridiculous.

 

I don't think I ever said that, either, or if I did, I tried to correct myself.  This problem--one of perception, but also to some degree based in reality--may not be the biggest problem, but I do think it is a big problem.  The RTA incident is only going to reinforce that perception in the minds of many folks.

 

Then acknowledge that the problem exists beyond the transit system.

 

Trust me, I have been. 8-)  It's a problem that has played a big part in all but ruining many of this and other regions' public services and institutions.

 

That's not what I said. Why would you leap to such a conclusion?

 

That's my own conclusion, based partly on what you said, and partly on personal experience.  I've never rode the bus on the west side, but it seems like it may be a world of difference from the experience one might have on the east side.  And of course this incident happened on the east side.

I've never seen a road rage incident end in violence.  I'm sure it happens, maybe it's even on YouTube somewhere, I've just never seen it.

 

In regards to the numbers, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong.  I just want to see percentage ridership over the past decade and a half.  The raw numbers are not enough to convince me at this point.

 

My comments are not supposed to be an indictment of public transportation, a service that I fully support.  It's a knock against the ghetto culture that plays a huge role in dragging this region down in almost all aspects of society.  Admittedly I'll shift the goalposts here a bit, but even if I accept that ridership has grown in recent years, I think it could be even higher and an even more attractive option if the ghetto culture that uses the service extensively were non-existent.  I don't know if there's any more that RTA could be doing, but maybe they need more a zero tolerance protocol for the type of behavior that lead to this event.  The bus driver certainly didn't respond as he should have, but there's no reason why he or any other RTA employee should have to put up with that kind of nonsense.

 

I don't think the "Ghetto culture" as you call it is the main problem. People can be crazy. Whether driving, walking, riding a bike or a train or bus. If ppl want to avoid the craziness that can exist in the World at times then they should just stay home.

 

I agree and people should be very careful when they use the word "ghetto" as its often used in place of another word or used to describe a group of people based on an assumption.

 

Ghetto's not a race.  It's a mindset.

 

Part of the problem is black people who are not ghetto sticking up for those who are. 

I've never seen a road rage incident end in violence.  I'm sure it happens, maybe it's even on YouTube somewhere, I've just never seen it.

 

In regards to the numbers, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong.  I just want to see percentage ridership over the past decade and a half.  The raw numbers are not enough to convince me at this point.

 

My comments are not supposed to be an indictment of public transportation, a service that I fully support.  It's a knock against the ghetto culture that plays a huge role in dragging this region down in almost all aspects of society.  Admittedly I'll shift the goalposts here a bit, but even if I accept that ridership has grown in recent years, I think it could be even higher and an even more attractive option if the ghetto culture that uses the service extensively were non-existent.  I don't know if there's any more that RTA could be doing, but maybe they need more a zero tolerance protocol for the type of behavior that lead to this event.  The bus driver certainly didn't respond as he should have, but there's no reason why he or any other RTA employee should have to put up with that kind of nonsense.

 

I don't think the "Ghetto culture" as you call it is the main problem. People can be crazy. Whether driving, walking, riding a bike or a train or bus. If ppl want to avoid the craziness that can exist in the World at times then they should just stay home.

 

I agree and people should be very careful when they use the word "ghetto" as its often used in place of another word or used to describe a group of people based on an assumption.

 

Ghetto's not a race.  It's a mindset.

 

Part of the problem is black people who are not ghetto sticking up for those who are. 

 

Don't make assumptions.  Also, the thread has been cleaned, so lets not go back down that road, because we'll eventually go off topic.

Yesterday, my father-in-law and I went to the Browns game.  He met up at my place and we took the rapid down.  I wanted to come on here to share my experience since I'm always more aware/anxious of public transportation when my suburban in-laws are present since they're more sensitive to things (unruly people/long lines/delays/etc.) than I am and thus I feel my observations are more keen when they're along.

 

First, let me start by saying the overall experience was great and I commend RTA for how well they handle crowds at Browns games.

 

Starting with the ride down on the Green Line, everything went smoothly.  The train left at the exact time it was scheduled.  A healthy number of Browns fans and likely a few non-Browns-related riders were on the train, but there were more than enough seats for everyone.  As soon as we left the station, my father-in-law commented "wow this moves fast" which I thought was hilarious because we were probably only going about 30 at the time he said it.  I told him we'd get up to 40 or 45 and that the red line approaches 60 (I ride the rapid a fair amount but I'm not a KJP-level railfan so I expect to be corrected here :) ).  He enjoyed the ride down, and makes friends easily so we had some conversations with people around us and all was good.  We had to wait for about 5 minutes just outside Tower City for a train to clear the platform, but we still got in only 3 or 4 minutes off schedule.  We all know about the height of the ticket machines (every time I buy a ticket I can't believe how ridiculous it is to have to practically kneel to use them), so he had me buy his All-Day Pass for him.  I couldn't get the machine to take his $5, so I just pocketed it and bought both of our tickets on my credit card.  When paying by credit card, there are a few unnecessary button presses, but I don't think the machines are that hard to use (maybe I'm just used to them).  We exited Tower City, and went to look for a bite to eat.  More on the rest of the day until we rode back in some other more on-topic threads.

 

For the ride back, I was worried the lines would be crazy to get back on the train and I'd have to hear comments about how he should have just driven, especially since the Browns won and most people stayed to the end of the game.  There were a lot of people, but RTA did a great job of having trains with an extra car come through every 5 minutes or so (or maybe even less) and packing people on pretty good (see pic below) and we were on in no time.  It's perfect when you leave the stadium because you pass some lots and see all the cars gridlocked trying to leave.  Also, he had just been to a show at Playhouse Square the night before and had told us how they were sitting in the parking garage for a long time waiting to get out.  A couple minutes later he had grabbed an open seat and struck up a conversation with a guy who turned out to be from his original hometown.  I heard him tell the guy "this is the way to come down to the game" which is always good to hear as he is quite suburban minded and wouldn't say that if he didn't really mean it.

 

Of course, then we had to have an obliterated fan stumble on at Tower City and start being ridiculously obnoxious and vulgar.  Pretty much everyone on the train was annoyed by him, but it wasn't a big deal.  It was pretty funny though when we were leaving the Shaker Square station and he yelled out "where the f--- is Triskett?"  After multiple people had to argue with him that he was on the east side (he kept telling them "no, I went west when I got on!") he finally yelled "I'm from Toledo, I don't know this s---!" and got off at the next stop, refusing to listen to anyone's advice on how he needed to get back to the west side.

 

The ride back took a really long time (I've always noticed that the stops and starts take a really long time for some reason when there's an extra car on the blue/green trains, which becomes really noticeable between Shaker Square and the ends of the lines), but overall RTA did a wonderful job and hopefully convinced a suburbanite to become a more regular rider with us when we're all heading downtown for an event.  Two thumbs up to Jerry and company!

 

Glad to hear you and your pops-in-law had a good experience. And your Rapid speed limit estimates are close enough for government work. ;-)

The wife and I actually took the rapid down to the Browns game as well, but we came from the Wast Side.  Getting down, our story pretty much mirrors yours.  Train left on time and by the time we got down there it was a pretty full train.  Not overwhelming as we were meeting people to tailgate so left kinda early.  The ticket machines I don't think are that onerous.  I actually think that they have improved the flow from when they first came out.  The height is a different issue though.

 

On the way back though we had a bit of a different experience.  Nothing terrible, just frustrating and why taking the rapid can be a pain.  As Jeff said most people stayed til the end of the game, so there was a pretty sizable crowd waiting for the train by the time we got to TC (we walked back from the stadium as we had to pick up the cooler from tailgating).  As I take the Rapid each day I know the size of the crowd those trains can handle and when we walked up there were easily enough people to fill one 2 car trainset.  Well I figured that we would be getting on a train in 10 min. tops, I was thinking that RTA would have a couple extra trains out basically running rush hour headways.  Did not seem to be the case, as we waited at least 20-30 min.  By this point the crowd for the west bound trains had filled to more than 2 trainsets.  In the end it did appear that RTA was running extra trains as we left from the pocket track, but this only cleared half the platform.  I'm not sure what caused the delay, and it would have been nice if it was announced.  Once we got on the train everything was fine though. 

 

I know that RTA has the NextConnect sign at the top of their ad kiosk in the middle of each platform, but it only faces toward the doors of TC.  It would be extremely helpful to have two facing either direction.  When we were in SF, BART and Muni had these and it does put the mind at ease to know that a train/bus is coming and when. 

Speaking of NextConnect:  The website is horrible.  I'm not sure how much control RTA has over this but it really needs to be redesigned to work on a mobile phone.  Right now it is optimized more for a desktop.  No one is going to check when their train/bus is going to arrive on a full web browser.  They are going to be using their phones. 

 

Also, I'm not positive yet and this is just conjecture but when you navigate to the Live Departure Times the times listed are just the scheduled times.  Now maybe RTA is that good, which is great but seems a little strange.  Also, each time that you select a route, direction, or stop from the live departure home screen it reloads the page.  This can be a real waste of time, and especially from the TC platform where the cell reception is not great.

I always avoid taking the RTA to Browns games because that train stop had been very slow in the past when I had tried it.  I used to just walk up E3rd and grab the 55 home but now I have to get a taxi.  Maybe I'll try it sometime as it would save me a few bucks on cab fare but likely extend my trip by 20+ minutes.

 

I have occasionally taken the train or the 55 to Indians games, but when there are 2 or more people going and it's not crazy downtown it's just not worth it.  It costs me $10 to park for most games versus $5 each all day pass.  Maybe when the Tribe gets good again it will be worth it but right now there is plenty of parking close to the park for the same amount it is to take the train.

 

 

Speaking of NextConnect:  The website is horrible.  I'm not sure how much control RTA has over this but it really needs to be redesigned to work on a mobile phone.  Right now it is optimized more for a desktop.  No one is going to check when their train/bus is going to arrive on a full web browser.  They are going to be using their phones. 

 

Also, I'm not positive yet and this is just conjecture but when you navigate to the Live Departure Times the times listed are just the scheduled times.  Now maybe RTA is that good, which is great but seems a little strange.  Also, each time that you select a route, direction, or stop from the live departure home screen it reloads the page.  This can be a real waste of time, and especially from the TC platform where the cell reception is not great.

 

RTA denies this, but if you track NextConnect regularly you can see that it only shows scheduled times for the Red Line. It is not based on the actual location of the next train. When a Red Line train is not on schedule, NextConnect is inaccurate.

^RTA has noted in the past (I believe in both this thread and in public statements after NextConnect was released) that their system defaults to the regular schedule in situations where they aren't able to obtain actual vehicle locations. They often cannot obtain actual locations if the settings aren't correct on the computer on the vehicle.

 

If I recall correctly several of us speculated that RTA just set up NextConnect to show that the data is available in hopes that someone would add the raw data to an app or website that could more clearly provide the information.

^I think you are correct as if you ever look at their "live map" for the Red Line there are very few actual trains on the map.  In order for someone to even develop a raw data feed app they would need to have the trains (and buses for that matter) reliably connected.  Otherwise it is of no more use than a generic schedule.

 

 

^^Just goes to show, Jam40Jeff, when our Rapid system works, it's one of Cleveland's greatest assets.

^^Just goes to show, Jam40Jeff, when our Rapid system works, it's one of Cleveland's greatest assets.

 

I agree.

 

As for NextConnect, it's pretty much a joke.  Every time I have looked for times, it just shows the same times as the schedule, and no, the trains are not always right on time.  As a developer, I could appreciate the fact that they have a public API available for people such as myself to write apps against, but that API is worthless if the data being fed through it is no good.  Garbage In, Garbage Out.

Okay, ladies and gentlemen, it's time to address a few concerns and clear up some misconceptions regarding NextConnect:

• First off, it is a compiled, turn-key product, and RTA does not have access to the source code, so we are the mercy of our budget and the vendor's availability to effect changes to the back-end -- any change other than presentation-level changes (some of which can be made in-house) has some dollar figure associated with it.
  
• NextConnect is part of a larger suite of software packages that integrate across many of the operational aspects of RTA. These inter-related systems have dependencies that cannot be ignored, and we can't simply pull out one version, or product, and replace it with another, especially one from another vendor. This is a reality of any specialized vertical market, which transit at our scale most certainly is.
  
• Keith is correct in noting that the system is designed to post schedule times when real time information is not available. This can occur for any number of reasons, and is more likely to occur on rail, where physical factors as well as human factors come into play. Unfortunately, in its current incarnation, the system cannot differentiate when it is displaying schedule data due to real-time data being unavailable.
  
• My personal experience with bus tracking on NextConnect has been (to my own surprise) very good. YMMV.
  
• Describing the system as "a joke", "horrible", or stating that "No one is going to check... on a full web browser" is unconstructive. We currently receive about 200-300 visits to the site per day, and are on an upward trend, keeping in mind this system was only launched to the public in June of this year. Also, our visitors are from a diverse range of networks, including the public library, the VA, and various cable providers, so I'm hard-pressed to believe that all of these network providers are entirely supporting clients on mobile devices. Can we do better? Of course we can. Will we? I believe so. Are constructive comments welcomed and considered? Absolutely. Everything else is just navel-gazing.
  
• As a turn-key, closed-source product, the vendor is under no obligation to provide a public API to the data, and does not, in fact, currently provide one. We have determined a means in-house to access more base-level data, and are working on methods to better present that data. jam40jeff very astutely observed that an API layered on bad data is worse than no API at all.
  

I'd also like to take this opportunity to let folks here know that changes are in the works for our main website, rideRTA.com. We have engaged a developer to work on a complete overhaul on the site, incorporating some more current technologies and presentation, and offering a layout based on the principles of "responsive design", which can dynamically adapt a site's layout to the widest range of devices it's viewed on. It is hoped that one of the spillover benefits of this process will be layouts and styles that can be applied across the range of RTA online properties. So, some of the presentation woes of NextConnect may be dealt with through that process.

 

One aspect of the website redesign process is usability testing, and to that end, I'd like to invite members of the UrbanOhio community to participate in that process. We'll have two rounds of usability testing, with the first involving paper mock-ups or wireframes. If you are interested in participating, please send an e-mail to [email protected] with:

• Your name (real name, please)
  
• A phone number you can be contacted at (phone sometimes just works better than e-mail)
  
• A brief statement of your familiarity with transit, and transit websites (we want a broad range of participants)
  
• A general sense of your availability (daytime availability will be necessary, as all testing will take place in-house, but we'll try to be somewhat flexible)
  

Thanks for being the generally supportive audience that you are. We're all in this together, working toward the same goal, and your input is appreciated.

^ JetDog, thank you for the response and I apologize for making that sum all fallacy.  It is true that the NextConnect service is not just used solely with mobile phones.  I will maintain an argument that this should be an optional function of the website.

 

From your explanation it sounds as if it is easier for the Live Departures to recognize Buses rather than Trains.  With the overhaul of the Red Line trains has there been a consideration into changing the way that the information is being transmitted?  And how to activate it?

 

NextConnect does have great potential, and hopefully can be iterated to a better product.  Most of the issues that I was describing above are due to the website overlay of the data.  If the website for NextConnect was designed and approved by RTA then these issues can hopefully be fixed fairly easily, as opposed to having to go back through the SP and work with their separate (and usually offsite) team.  Regardless, I will be sending an email about getting in on the testing phase of the re-done website.

 

Thank you JetDog and Jerry for keeping us informed.

As I was saying earlier:

 

"The Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority has logged about 80 instances of assaults on RTA workers in the last five years, the letter said. "

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2012/10/rta_union_want_to_bolster_bus.html#incart_river_default

Good for RTA for filing charges against that animal!  Hopefully the driver will be reinstated soon.

Good for RTA for filing charges against that animal!  Hopefully the driver will be reinstated soon.

 

Calling someone an "animal" is no better than his/her actions that day on the bus.  We have no idea to her mental state.  Based on what was shown, she was wrong and her behavior was uncalled for, but so is labeling her an "animal".

I'm pretty sure calling her an animal isn't quite as bad as her behavior and actions on the video. Of course other words that begin with a b or c are also quite accurate.

I'm with MTS.  Calling people animals is going down a very bad road.  The other words you invoke, while vulgar, don't carry the same historical baggage. 

So when someone is acting like an animal, should we have to use other terms to describe it?  Forget political correctness - the term fits what I saw in that video.

 

I don't think people would object to something like calling Sandusky an animal or a monster. So why not here?