I'm with MTS.  Calling people animals is going down a very bad road.  The other words you invoke, while vugar, don't carry the same historical baggage. 

Agreed!  (We're agreeing on many topics lately!  What is going on?  LOL)

Changing up, has RTA made any plans to service the Northfield Casino when it opens?

 

I don't see ODOT doing so, and that area's not very efficient in terms of freeway access despite the proximity to the 271-480 interchange.  The village (I live there) is thinking small.  They are talking about adding traffic lights.

 

Unless the Hard Rock is dumping a quarter of a billion dollars into a facility no one will visit, there's an opportunity here.

So when someone is acting like an animal, should we have to use other terms to describe it?  Forget political correctness - the term fits what I saw in that video.

 

I don't think people would object to something like calling Sandusky an animal or a monster. So why not here?

 

have you ever heard of Philip Zimbardo? 

 

he  did a often demonized study into why good people do bad things,

 

He wrote a book called the the Lucifer Effect

 

At the core of evil is the process of dehumanization by which certain other people or collectives of them, are depicted as less than human, as non comparable in humanity or personal dignity to those who do the labeling. Prejudice employs negative stereotypes in images or verbally abusive terms to demean and degrade the objects of its narrow view of superiority over these allegedly inferior persons. Discrimination involves the actions taken against those others based on the beliefs and emotions generated by prejudiced perspectives.

 

Dehumanization is one of the central processes in the transformation of ordinary, normal people into indifferent or even wanton perpetrators of evil. Dehumanization is like a “cortical cataract” that clouds one’s thinking and fosters the perception that other people are less than human. It makes some people come to see those others as enemies deserving of torment, torture, and even annihilation.

 

In this section, we will examine three forms that dehumanization has taken: Nazi Comic Books against the Jews; Faces of the Enemy—world-wide propaganda images of the “enemy,” and “trophy photos” of American citizens posing with African Americans who had been lynched or burned alive—and then portrayed in post cards mailed to family and friends.

 

this is not about being politically correct but about matianng the humanity of the person we disagree with, you have crossed then line by using terms that effectively dehumanize the persons involved, by the actions they have taken in 15 minutes of a total of 70+ years of an entire lifetime.

 

 

Good for RTA for filing charges against that animal!  Hopefully the driver will be reinstated soon.

 

I'm glad RTA is filing charges against Shidea, but I still don't think Artis should be reinstated as a bus driver.  His actions that day were dangerous and irresponsible.  Under NO circumstances should he have continued driving that bus with her threatening him like that.  He should have stopped the bus and kicked her off.  I've been on buses where this has happened, and you'd better believe that if the bus isn't moving the other passenger will assist in removing the irate passenger.

RTA:

 

PLEASE START ENFORCING THE LAW OF NO SMOKING ON STATION PLATFORMS. I AM TIRED OF SOMEONE LIGHTING UP NEXT TO ME WHEN IM WAITING FOR THE RAPID. I DO NOT WANT CANCER FROM SECOND HAND SMOKE NOR DO I APPRECIATE IT AS AN ASTHMATIC. THESE MORONS DO NOT CARE, AND IF I WERE A TYPICAL AMURRICAN WHO OWNED A CELL PHONE I WOULD DIAL THE NUMBER TO REPORT THEM. THERE WERE COPS AT THE STATION YET THEY STARE AND DO NOTHING TO PEOPLE VIOLATING THE LAW.

 

 

 

on a good note, the red line was packed this afternoon.  who says there is no demand for more rail transit in cleveland?

^ You probably should have asked the officers you saw to tell them....maybe :wtf:

You're not going to get cancer from "second hand smoke" in an outdoor environment.  That's panic mongering nonsense.

 

I'm not sure how the law works, but in bars it's on the bar to enforce it.  They, not the smoker, can get cited.  If the cops were CPD, it's not their jurisdiction unless RTA people ask for their help.

^ If you are not a doctor, please do not offer medical advice. I know that when someone blows smoke in my face, I have a strong adverse physical reaction. Will the smoke cause cancer? Frankly, I am not going to wait around to find out.

 

BACKGROUND: Several years ago, after the Ohio residents voted to become smoke-free, the RTA Board passed a resolution, declaring all RTA property to be smoke-free, There are signs up in every shelter, on every bus and train and on every platform. Lately, complaints about smoking have greatly increased, so Joe Calabrese has ordered Transit Police to step up their enforcement. I do not have the paperwork in front of me, but the total cost of a citation, plus court costs, can top $200.

 

If a smoker is bothering you, tell a nearby Transit Police officer, or call 216-566-5163. Police might not be arrive before the smoker leaves, but they have it on record that problem exists at this station at this time, and that helps too.

Changing up, has RTA made any plans to service the Northfield Casino when it opens? I don't see ODOT doing so, and that area's not very efficient in terms of freeway access despite the proximity to the 271-480 interchange.  The village (I live there) is thinking small.  They are talking about adding traffic lights. Unless the Hard Rock is dumping a quarter of a billion dollars into a facility no one will visit, there's an opportunity here.

 

I believe it is being called a "racino." RTA is monitoring the situation, and any service changes would be made closer to the time it opens.

Post about the Enhance Clifton project was moved to that thread....

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,4446.0.html

I've noticed more transit police at stations other than Tower City. Earlier in this thread, some of us lamented the lack of transit police outside of the Tower City station and the Tower City -> E. 55th station route. In the past week, I've seen transit police at various west side stations, as well as on some east and west side routes. I even saw transit police at the E. 120th street station. Much appreciated, and I think a step in the right direction.

So are RTA police responsible for writing parking tickets on Chester? I saw one there last week doing so. I would have preferred to see them riding the healthline or something.

I've noticed more transit police at stations other than Tower City. Earlier in this thread, some of us lamented the lack of transit police outside of the Tower City station and the Tower City -> E. 55th station route. In the past week, I've seen transit police at various west side stations, as well as on some east and west side routes. I even saw transit police at the E. 120th street station. Much appreciated, and I think a step in the right direction.

 

I concur. I've seen them at other stations along the HealthLine too, not just at East 2nd where many westbound passengers get off. Good to see.

 

So are RTA police responsible for writing parking tickets on Chester? I saw one there last week doing so. I would have preferred to see them riding the healthline or something.

 

An RTA cop on Chester? You sure it was RTA?

So are RTA police responsible for writing parking tickets on Chester? I saw one there last week doing so. I would have preferred to see them riding the healthline or something.

 

An RTA cop on Chester? You sure it was RTA?

 

Positive. I was thinking the same thing so I double checked. His RTA cop car was parked there too.

WTF??

WTF??

 

It was at the southeast corner of Chester and East 13th

So are RTA police responsible for writing parking tickets on Chester? I saw one there last week doing so. I would have preferred to see them riding the healthline or something.

 

Who has jurisdiction for writing tickets for parking in a bus stop?

^I'm guessing multiple agencies have jurisdiction.  It sounds like RTA police are writing tickets and I have received one from a meter maid for parking in a bus stop zone.  So there's two agencies...

WTF??

 

It was at the southeast corner of Chester and East 13th

 

Question?  Could this be part of the "Downtown Transit Zone" that was created along with the ECP?  Is so, is it possible RTA is responsible for writing tickets?

If cars or trucks park in a bus-only lane, or are too close to a bust stop / bus shelter, then they are impeding the safe flow of transit vehicles, and are ticketed. Drivers try to infringe on our space all the time. I am glad to hear they are writing tickets.

The Cedar-University rapid station has signs posted saying "Station closing in 2 weeks".  I was under the impression it was going to remain open during reconstruction.  Is this no longer the case?

This was not in a bus stop though. The bus stop is further down chester, across from the greyhound stations front doors. The officer also parked his car in front of a fire hydrant.

On Monday, Nov. 5, the station entrance north of Cedar Ave will close until further notice, as the rebuilding of the Station begins.

 

Buses going westbound will no longer pull into the bus lane or stop at the north entrance to the Station.

 

All customers will board the Red Line and buses on the bus loop side of the Station.

This was not in a bus stop though. The bus stop is further down chester, across from the greyhound stations front doors. The officer also parked his car in front of a fire hydrant.

 

....and you didn't run over and ask a question?  The shame!    :o :P :police:

The Cedar-University rapid station has signs posted saying "Station closing in 2 weeks".  I was under the impression it was going to remain open during reconstruction.  Is this no longer the case?

 

I wonder why it says "Station closing"? Sounds like it's already giving the wrong impression....

The Cedar-University rapid station has signs posted saying "Station closing in 2 weeks".  I was under the impression it was going to remain open during reconstruction.  Is this no longer the case?

 

I wonder why it says "Station closing"? Sounds like it's already giving the wrong impression....

 

Those signs were placed by the contractor, and were incomplete. What's actually closing as of 11/5 is just the north side headhouse access (the side closest to the CWRU campus). The south side headhouse and the associated bus loop will continue to be accessible. New, more accurately descriptive signs are being prepared and should be posted shortly. Sorry about the confusion.

New, more accurately descriptive signs are being prepared and should be posted shortly.

Now that's what we like to hear.

I expect my signage to be world-class  :evil: .

 

Also, I'm sure the RTA folks are already aware, but what's up with the healthline during rush hour downtown?  I'm a regular rider so I've noticed the busses starting to double up, then later triple up.  Just yesterday I counted 5 healthline busses between public square and e. 14th at the same time, all heading east (quintupling?).  Once they get bunched up, they get more concerned about hopping each other to save time, but on multiple occasions I've seen the driver miss or narrowly miss a passenger's stop (despite ringing the bell) because of the added stress of the bus hopping.  Additionally, though the intentions are good, when full or redundant busses blow by the stations, passengers seem very upset, and I can relate because I've had a bus blow by me, and the bus that was supposed to be 'right behind' broke down at the prior stop, so I ended up waiting about 40 minutes total just to get on the bus.

 

It seems like either there is a traffic or scheduling issue that is causing the bunching, or there is an effort to concentrate more busses downtown during rush hour, but the side-effects are almost as bad as not having sufficient capacity.

It seems like either there is a traffic or scheduling issue that is causing the bunching, or there is an effort to concentrate more busses downtown during rush hour, but the side-effects are almost as bad as not having sufficient capacity.

No, the problem is they sent a bus to do a train's job.

It seems like either there is a traffic or scheduling issue that is causing the bunching, or there is an effort to concentrate more busses downtown during rush hour, but the side-effects are almost as bad as not having sufficient capacity.

No, the problem is they sent a bus to do a train's job.

 

And they'll do it again too, if we let them.

New, more accurately descriptive signs are being prepared and should be posted shortly.

Now that's what we like to hear.

 

Thanks JeTDoG, and GCRTA!

FYI, just received this tweet from NOACA......

 

@GCRTA is conducting an On-Board Transit Survey. If asked to take a survey, please do so. This will help improve #transit service.

I know Jerry mentioned how expensive it is to replace the destination signs on the Blue and Green Line trains (although, I still think the current "sticky" system is tacky).  But lately, drivers into Tower City don't even bother to put any signs up, even during rush hour.  So passengers are left to guess, or ask each other.  Or ask the driver (and in many instances get a surly answer in response); or simply wait until the train starts when, most times, drivers announce where the train is going -- and then, if you're on the wrong train, you can switch at any station up to Shaker Square....

 

... Sound acceptable?  I don't...  Jerry (or JetDog), I hope you can look into this.

Not sure when but it appears that RTA updated their system maps.  I think it is great improvement over what was there and makes them much easier to understand.

 

 

Not sure when but it appears that RTA updated their system maps.  I think it is great improvement over what was there and makes them much easier to understand.

 

Hallelujah! They look great.

Not sure when but it appears that RTA updated their system maps.  I think it is great improvement over what was there and makes them much easier to understand.

 

Hallelujah! They look great.

 

I will pass your praise along to our Graphic Artist. He's worked long and hard on this, and it is important that your appreciation is communicated to him.

Massive Improvement!!! I'm very impressed.

Not sure when but it appears that RTA updated their system maps.  I think it is great improvement over what was there and makes them much easier to understand.

 

Hallelujah! They look great.

 

I will pass your praise along to our Graphic Artist. He's worked long and hard on this, and it is important that your appreciation is communicated to him.

 

No question, this is a massive improvement.  The old maps were so totally amaturish, not drawn to scale and difficult to follow (a bunch of numbers on thick black lines rep'ing bus lines).  I middle schooler could have drafted that old map... The new map is drawn to scale and, more importantly, have easy-to-follow color coded bus routes with the numbers in large color dots on the route.  And the interfacing with the Rapid lines and the Health Line is clear.  And you have a nice dowtown blowup with a clear detail map of the trolleys (you did miss the new E. 9th street route -- it probably was added after the map had gone to the printer -- but this can easily be added later).

 

... yes JetDog, RTA's graphic artist is to be applauded; job well done.

It seems like either there is a traffic or scheduling issue that is causing the bunching, or there is an effort to concentrate more busses downtown during rush hour, but the side-effects are almost as bad as not having sufficient capacity.

No, the problem is they sent a bus to do a train's job.

 

I think a street level train would have the same problems.  If the green line were busier and had 5 minute headways, it would probably stack up between Coventry and Warrensville Center.  The real problem is that the "timed traffic lights" are awful.  I don't know the algorithm, but from everything I've seen you could have those lights just turn at random intervals and it couldn't be any worse.

The technology exists to have lights respond to the vehicles approaching.  Timing isn't necessary that way, right? 

In my humble, amatuer, and probably ignorant opinion, there appear to be multiple causes to the bunching we're seeing on the Healthline.

 

-Traffic Lights not giving the Healthline priority as they were supposedly designed to do

-Overcrowding on the Healthline buses causes stops to take longer than intended, which then makes that bus fall progressively further behind, making it more crowded when it picks extra people up at the next stop thus causing a negative feedback loop

 

Now traffic lights as most of us know are up to the city, but probably would work better if more people (including RTA) were screaming about them. Yes, a streetcar or lightrail running on the street would have the same issue.

 

Now as far as overcrowding slowing down the busses, that is where RTA's choice of busses over trains is hurting timeliness. If a train was overcrowded, they could just add more cars. With the articulated busses they've got, that's not an option.

 

The other advantage of a train is that generally they're designed with stations further apart. If the Healthline had half as many stops, it would have half as many overly long delays sitting while people got on and off. Even if we accept busses for the Healthline, it's pretty obvious that the stations are too numerous and close together.

Nice job with the map. Looks great!!

Removal of stops has to be a consideration at this point.  It's wasteful but that's spilt milk, the waste was already committed, and it could improve system performance for the remaining stops.

:wtf:

What about some kind of "Skip Stop" or "Express" service on the Healthline?

:wtf:

What about some kind of "Skip Stop" or "Express" service on the Healthline?

 

How do you do that when there are dedicated lanes???  The entire service is billed as "express" so deviating from what we have now would only make things over complicated and call out people who already have an issue with the HL.

 

I say keep it simple, stay basic, but implement the street light and bus navigation that was promised.

 

I think there will always be a issue with exact timing as you never know how many people will enter/exit at each station or if there is a handicapped individual.

 

I say KISS

KISS should be the motto of transportation engineers for all modes.  I hate when they try to get clever.

KISS should be the motto of transportation engineers for all modes.  I hate when they try to get clever.

 

Engineers are like some professional athletes. To some engineers, engineering is all about competition, ego and notoriety. And the flashier/more expensive the better. Give me an engineer who can design the prettiest, strongest, simplest and .... cheapest.

I agree with 327 on the light timing.  Screw trying to time the lights...it won't work.  Just use preemptive signaling.  When a bus is coming the light turns green for it, or stays green if it already is (I know, I know, it's a white rectangle/triangle, not green/red).  You could even implement some simple logic where it will only turn green as long as the light hasn't changed within X number of seconds to avoid unexpected "quick changes" for motorists, and it would still be 1000x better than it is now.

It seems like either there is a traffic or scheduling issue that is causing the bunching, or there is an effort to concentrate more busses downtown during rush hour, but the side-effects are almost as bad as not having sufficient capacity.

No, the problem is they sent a bus to do a train's job.

 

I think a street level train would have the same problems.  If the green line were busier and had 5 minute headways, it would probably stack up between Coventry and Warrensville Center.  The real problem is that the "timed traffic lights" are awful.  I don't know the algorithm, but from everything I've seen you could have those lights just turn at random intervals and it couldn't be any worse.

 

Understand the buses used on the Healthline may be scheduled for 10 minute headways, but ofter RTA is having to space them for as little as 3 minute headways during rush hour. because the volume of passengers is so high.    this creates the bunching issue.

 

Crowded buses like crowded trains take longer to load and unload, the healthline buses have larger doors for this reason but they still only have 2-3 doors per side

 

You are correct that Trams are also susceptible to bunching, Toronto is a great example of this, because their streetcars are so short, they are resolving this issue with a 106 foot 190 passenger Low Floor Streetcar. 

 

Comparison between modern Light/light Rail and BRT Healthline.

 

                                BRT  LRT

Number of Doors      2-3    4

Passenger Capacity 

Seated                      47    70

standing                  53    120

total                        100  190

 

If the green line were busier and had 5 minute headways, it would probably stack up between Coventry and Warrensville Center. 

 

maybe ut you would not want 5 minute headway on a street level system, at least with the green line you can add more capacity to the route without decreasing the headway, something the Healthline cannot do.

 

The real problem is that the "timed traffic lights" are awful.  I don't know the algorithm, but from everything I've seen you could have those lights just turn at random intervals and it couldn't be any worse.

 

even with signal prioritization It is the volume of buses that overwhelms the Signaling system, If there were fewer buses it would be easier to allow them to skip lights.

 

Example it takes a minimum number of seconds for the light to go from green to red and back to green again.  when you have intervals of 3 minute between buses it becomes impossible to give signal priority to every bus.  There is better signal prioritization software coming in the Future that can better anticipate bunching but it isn't here yet.

 

 

short-term

 

I think the best thing for RTA to do is to ........ remove seats on the bus to improve capacity and speed boardings.

 

removing 4 seats would improve standee capacity by 8-10 persons.

 

 

even with signal prioritization It is the volume of buses that overwhelms the Signaling system, If there were fewer buses it would be easier to allow them to skip lights.

 

Example it takes a minimum number of seconds for the light to go from green to red and back to green again.  when you have intervals of 3 minute between buses it becomes impossible to give signal priority to every bus. 

 

I disagree that loading and unloading is the main problem.  Even at the busiest stops, it takes only 15-20 seconds to load and unload passengers.  But most traffic lights stop the bus for anywhere from 30 seconds to over a minute.

 

Also, I thought the busses were run every 5 minutes at rush hour, not 3?  Regardless, even at 3 minutes, you should be able to have effective signal prioritization.

 

Also, I know you wouldn't want to have to run green line trains every 5 minutes, and there's no way there is density to need it.  But I was just referring to a train system with a similar number of traffic lights and short platforms (such that you couldn't run large trains to handle more capacity) to point out that a street level train has many of the same problems as BRT.

 

But don't get me wrong, I'd still much rather have Light Rail down Euclid than BRT.  I am just saying that it wouldn't magically solve all of the line's problems.