Thanks for the history lesson, KJP. I have wondered what the circumstances were that led to a rail route like the Red Line being built in the 1950s.

^Those photos are quite amazing and are quiet evidence of how, if you've got a solid, forward-looking project, it's very possible it will eventually reach fruition -- and of course for Cleveland, it did (and hopefully Cincy's 20s-era subway tunnels too will come to life)... Cleveland's Rapid Transit network is all the more amazing when you consider it was the end result of a couple high school dropouts dream to make money developing fallow farmland into high end suburban RE.  In life you never can predict how things will turn out.

I always wondered about the Vans and their interest for rail. (And each other but that's getting into, like, Tumblr fan-fiction realms :p )

 

Wow, the Red Line's "bones" reach back pretty far! I knew that the ROW existed since the twenties, but not centenary supports and station structures as well. I guess that's way more maintenance deferred than I thought.

 

So the Red Line's been operating nearly 60 years at this point, still time for maintenance (at least my professors would demand it!)

 

The in cab signals don't actually change the speed of the train, if I'm reading that right? The Red Line is not driver-less, so that's kinda what I assumed...?

The in cab signals don't actually change the speed of the train, if I'm reading that right? The Red Line is not driver-less, so that's kinda what I assumed...?

 

Cab signals by themselves do not. The purpose of cab signals is to give the operator real-time status of the track ahead, rather than wait to approach the next trackside signal. However when combined with an Automatic Train Stop system, if the train's operator does not respond to a change in the cab signal, then the ATS will automatically engage the train's brakes. There is also an over-speed control as well. So if a train operator wants to operate at normal in a section of track coded with a speed restriction, the overspeed control will activate the train's brakes. So you've probably been on a train when the operator accelerates from a slow speed, then you hear a beeping and the train suddenly slows down. Sometimes this happens repeatedly as the operators tries to find where the coded circuit for a speed restriction ends and normal speed can resume.

At that point, why not have the system control the speed, instead of having two operators fighting over the gas and break and jerking us all around?

@GCRTA Tues 9/9-Thurs 9/11 8p-3a, Red Line btwn E 55 & E 120, single tracking for maintenance could cause delays.

Cities of tomorrow will need strong public transportation systems to foster growth

Blog Entry: September 18, 2014 11:56 AM    |    Author: SCOTT SUTTELL

 

Demographic trends suggest that thriving cities of the future will need strong public transit systems to attract residents.

 

People under 30 “are far more likely to ride public transportation and to express positive feelings about it than older people, regardless of what part of the country they live in or what kind of neighborhood they grew up in,” CityLab.com reports, based on an ambitious survey from the nonprofit TransitCenter.

 

In 2013, “transit ridership in the United States hit a 50-year high, with the nation’s transit systems logging 10.7 billion rides,” according to the story.

 

The survey, which gathered data from 11,842 respondents in 46 metropolitan areas, including Cleveland, found that public transit riders “are disproportionately young, members of ethnic minorities, and—most important of all—they live in relatively dense neighborhoods where high-quality transit is available.”

 

TransitCenter broke the metro areas into those it defined as “transit progressive” (including Cleveland, Denver, Miami, Minneapolis and Seattle) and “transit deficient” (Dallas, Detroit and Tampa, among others).

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20140918/BLOGS03/140919776/cities-of-tomorrow-will-need-strong-public-transportation-systems-to

Transit "progressive" or transit "average"?

Mark your calendars and plan to attend.

 

Statewide Transit Needs Study will hold a public meeting at RTA from 2-4 p.m. on Oct. 21. Come and tell them why transit is important to you.

 

More information will be available next week. Stay tuned.

Mark your calendars and plan to attend.

 

Statewide Transit Needs Study will hold a public meeting at RTA from 2-4 p.m. on Oct. 21. Come and tell them why transit is important to you.

 

More information will be available next week. Stay tuned.

Yes come tell them that we want more transit so that they can realize we need dedicated funding and then do literally nothing about it just like the same studies that have been done every other year for the last decade. :roll:

Dudley do-right on his bicycle, runs a red-light on his Huffy to capture this RTA drivers response to her grave transgression.  We should report him as well!

 

http://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2014/09/29/video-rta-bus-turns-left-at-red-light-drives-on-wrong-side-of-road

 

 

 

^ Yeah, how DARE he!  We don't need any "Dudley do-right" concerned citizen-types in Cleveland watching out for bus drivers who drive insanely dangerously!  Move to Portland, hippie.  :-o

Dudley do-right on his bicycle, runs a red-light on his Huffy to capture this RTA drivers response to her grave transgression.  We should report him as well!

 

http://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2014/09/29/video-rta-bus-turns-left-at-red-light-drives-on-wrong-side-of-road

 

Triskett district management has viewed this video and is investigating the situation. We appreciate any reports of improper behavior on the part of our operators, but remind folks not to put themselves in harm's way to capture such information.

To be fair, it looks as if the right side of the driveway exiting the rapid station was closed/blocked due to construction or something, which would have not allowed the bus to be able to turn around the support pillars onto the right side of Lorain Rd.  I don't know whether or not RTA had any provision for what the bus should have done here, but I don't see how she had too many other options in this case.

Dudley do-right on his bicycle, runs a red-light on his Huffy to capture this RTA drivers response to her grave transgression.  We should report him as well!

 

http://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2014/09/29/video-rta-bus-turns-left-at-red-light-drives-on-wrong-side-of-road

 

Having been a 360hp engine away from getting nailed by a nonobservant bus on Lee Road last century, I'm always surprised to be siding with a bus driver again, but versus the Spoked Crusader, no problem. 

Just imagine if we as a country started strictly and omnipresently enforcing traffic laws against large vehicles overnight. The supply chain industry would temporarily collapse, and probably spark inflation.

 

Maybe the driver was supposed to be rerouted, but other than that it looks like she picked her moment well. The only other inquiry I'd have is to know how that particular traffic light is programmed to operate, and whether it can be activated from the entry side of the driveway, etc.

Dudley do-right on his bicycle, runs a red-light on his Huffy to capture this RTA drivers response to her grave transgression.  We should report him as well!

 

http://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-heard/archives/2014/09/29/video-rta-bus-turns-left-at-red-light-drives-on-wrong-side-of-road

 

Having been a 360hp engine away from getting nailed by a nonobservant bus on Lee Road last century, I'm always surprised to be siding with a bus driver again, but versus the Spoked Crusader, no problem. 

 

Yeah I felt the same way.  Her union rep will be by her side claiming she did nothing wrong, despite the video showing her running a light and driving on the wrong side of Lorain. 

 

But "Bike Doright" was just as annoying, and also a traffic scofflaw, recording his own offense on a helmet mounted camera.  This is a problem I have with bike nerds in general, who want you to share the roadway, but ignore traffic laws when convenient to themselves. 

 

I did see it made Channel 3 News last night at 11, so he has managed to stir the pot.  I'm sure the RTA driver will get a couple weeks off (with pay), and Dudley will go back to his mom's basement to share his 15 minutes of fame on Myspace.  All will be right in the world.

 

 

Guys, if you want to believe that a bike cruising through an orange light is as scold-worthy as a bus driving the wrong direction under an overpass, that's your prerogative, but can we leave the anti bike bitterness out of the RTA thread?

B..b...b...but the bike crusader dudley do-right went through the tail end of a yellow light at a 3 way intersection...

Guys, if you want to believe that a bike cruising through an orange light is as scold-worthy as a bus driving the wrong direction under an overpass, that's your prerogative, but can we leave the anti bike bitterness out of the RTA thread?

 

Not saying that at all--the driver was definitely in the wrong.  I just found it funny that since he just happened to be in the right place at the right time that this incident has garnered air time.    As if this city doesn't have worse problems to confront.

 

And, for the record, the light was clearly red and Dudley accelerated through the red to get to the anarchist RTA driver.  The difference:  Dudley doesn't have a union rep.  Or a dedicated thread on this forum.

 

This was all in good fun--now backed to regularly-scheduled RTA programming.

 

 

Some hot rumors coming out of RTA....

 

GCRTA is considering replacing some or all of the rail fleet by adding to San Francisco MUNI's approved $1.2 billion contract with Siemens Corp. to replace and expand MUNI's light-rail vehicle fleet. The approved contract calls for the German company, which manufactures light-rail vehicles in Sacramento, to build 260 cars. This is $4.6 million per car. MUNI's existing fleet has 155 cars.

 

GCRTA needs about 30 LRVs to replace its existing Shaker fleet. This is a cost of about $138 million. They can keep some of the 34-year-old Breda light-rail cars that are in better condition for special events and then cannibalize the others for spare parts. The Red Line's Tokyu fleet doesn't need to be replaced for about another 10 years. But the Breda cars need to replaced by 2020, which is the soonest the Siemens cars could be built and delivered if GCRTA decides to replace them this year.

 

So when the Red Line cars are due for replacement, would GCRTA exercise a possible option from Siemens to order more cars? That's the big question. It depends on whether GCRTA would seek a universal, standardized type rail car for use on all GCRTA rail lines which is possible with the Siemens cars because they can use high-level or low-level platforms via folding steps. However, the Siemens cars are 2 feet narrower than the existing Tokyu cars and 1.5 feet narrower than the Breda cars which might require wider station platforms or modifications to the rail cars.

 

The other factor is whether, upon retirement of the Tokyu cars, GCRTA shifts use of the new cars to the Red Line and then converts the Shaker lines to BRT. Yes, there is gossip at GCRTA that they will convert the Shaker Rapid to BRT coincident with the introduction of the University Circle Express (UCX) bus service to park-n-ride lots at North Randall and Chagrin Highlands.

The other factor is whether, upon retirement of the Tokyu cars, GCRTA shifts use of the new cars to the Red Line and then converts the Shaker lines to BRT. Yes, there is gossip at GCRTA that they will convert the Shaker Rapid to BRT coincident with the introduction of the University Circle Express (UCX) bus service to park-n-ride lots at North Randall and Chagrin Highlands.

 

I give up.  There really is no hope for rail in this City.

The other factor is whether, upon retirement of the Tokyu cars, GCRTA shifts use of the new cars to the Red Line and then converts the Shaker lines to BRT. Yes, there is gossip at GCRTA that they will convert the Shaker Rapid to BRT coincident with the introduction of the University Circle Express (UCX) bus service to park-n-ride lots at North Randall and Chagrin Highlands.

 

Wouldn't this involve literally tearing out the tracks?

 

What a profoundly stupid idea.  The other direction is the way to go.

Ha, well the MUNI part would make a lot of sense (/pats self on back for pointing out the obvious 8 years ago).

 

Speaking of Muni- their light rail cars have retractable stairs that allow them to serve at-grade and elevated platforms.  Sure makes a lot more sense than RTA's operation of two fleets...

 

Plus:

 

Given the federal funding situation, RTA is preferring to rebuilt its existing rail fleet. Maybe in another decade or two they'll replace the fleet with standardized, dual-platform equipment.

Wouldn't this involve literally tearing out the tracks?

 

More than likely. The question some may ask is how can GCRTA convert the Shaker lines to BRT when they are using federal funds to rebuild stations at Woodhill, Lee Road, East 116th and the grade crossings at cross streets. Wouldn't GCRTA have to give those funds back, or at least the non-depreciated portions thereof, if the they are abandoned before the assets age 20 years? Yes, that is the case with the stations. I'm not sure if that is the case with the crossings which may have a shorter lifespan. But those stations can be used by LRVs or BRTs -- such as a bus dropping below Lee Road to avoid traffic at the intersection. And the rail right of way from Shaker Square west to an intersection with the Opportunity Corridor could be paved with a BRT roadway for 50-60 mph buses and below street-grade stations.

I guess another question is, if you're not tied to the fixed rail, does it even make sense to run high quality transit on those routes?  Especially the Green Line route, which has so few ridership generators between SS and the park and ride lot. 

I guess another question is, if you're not tied to the fixed rail, does it even make sense to run high quality transit on those routes?  Especially the Green Line route, which has so few ridership generators between SS and the park and ride lot. 

 

True, but it then allows the Green Line BRT (God it hurt to write that) to be extended to Beachwood Place or other nearby ridership generator(s).

The other factor is whether, upon retirement of the Tokyu cars, GCRTA shifts use of the new cars to the Red Line and then converts the Shaker lines to BRT. Yes, there is gossip at GCRTA that they will convert the Shaker Rapid to BRT coincident with the introduction of the University Circle Express (UCX) bus service to park-n-ride lots at North Randall and Chagrin Highlands.

 

I give up.  There really is no hope for rail in this City.

 

I'm practically speechless on such profound stupidity... But in reality, it should not be surprising, really, with Joe Calabrese and his rail-hating, right-wing cronies... This has been the plan all along, although Jerry Masek refused to show his hand when asked why RTA was planning parallel BRT to Shaker Rapid lines...

 

... All I can say is, if this is truly the direction the Calabrese clan is heading in, he's going to have a HUGE FIGHT on his hands, because people won't stand for this nonsense ... And I certainly hope KJP doesn't just share this "rumor" here, but go to the press with it; notably Alison Grant at the PD who has written good articles about Amtrak lately, and has quoted him in several recent articles as AAO's director... This "rumor" is an outrage and needs to be given wide media coverage ASAP, because it, plus the thrust to get/receive the lone TIGER grant to build the crazy OC highway, threatens to set Cleveland transit and TOD development back several decades -- probably 1/2 century or more...

 

Hey guys, no decisions have been made. In fact, I'm not even sure that there is an active, formal planning process underway for considering the future of the Shaker Rapid -- other than the UCX bus service which was proposed as an overlay to the existing Shaker Rapid. So the total conversion to BRT is just rumor right now as GCRTA faces further reductions in federal funding, no state help and a flattening of sales tax revenues despite a slight improvement in the region's economy. Considering that rail eats up 40 percent of GCRTA's budget, some tough choices would have to be made if things don't improve. And one of those choices may include new locally generated sources of revenue. So let's not burn GCRTA at the stake over a rumor. We're likely a long way from having to make that decision -- but the community does need to be aware of the constraints facing GCRTA.

 

Oh, and "Hell No" is not a solution. Expanding GCRTA's revenue foundation, reducing its costs per service-hour and reducing its service-hours without reducing service are worthwhile solutions to pursue.

Hey guys, no decisions have been made. In fact, I'm not even sure that there is an active, formal planning process underway for considering the future of the Shaker Rapid -- other than the UCX bus service which was proposed as an overlay to the existing Shaker Rapid. So the total conversion to BRT is just rumor right now as GCRTA faces further reductions in federal funding, no state help and a flattening of sales tax revenues despite a slight improvement in the region's economy. Considering that rail eats up 40 percent of GCRTA's budget, some tough choices would have to be made if things don't improve. And one of those choices may include new locally generated sources of revenue. So let's not burn GCRTA at the stake over a rumor. We're likely a long way from having to make that decision -- but the community does need to be aware of the constraints facing GCRTA.

 

Oh, and "Hell No" is not a solution. Expanding GCRTA's revenue foundation, reducing its costs per service-hour and reducing its service-hours without reducing service are worthwhile solutions to pursue.

 

I appreciate all your "inside" information, irritating as it is.  You're certainly my eyes and ears into the inner working of what the transportation power elite is thinking and it's much more preferable to get this out on the table and hash it out now than to be blind-sided by it in the future... It's just that it shouldn't even be considered by RTA and, the fact that it is, is deplorable.  Where other cities are looking to expand rail transit and expanding TOD, we here are considering shrinking it while continually expanding our highway system; we're literally stuck in the 1950s ... and, with the OC crowd trying to con the public by explaining that said highway (fast moving roadway, ... whatever you choose to call it) will miraculously boost rail transit ridership-- yeah, right. I ask the Q again: do they think we're stupid? 

 

And such a "rumor" about abandoning the Shaker Rapid for buses is exactly the same as what Albert S. Porter's shop proposed 50 years ago... so what we have is the hand of Porter is guiding Cleveland transportation, growth and sprawl from the grave all these years later.

 

And as for rail solutions, the most generous objective observer would have to content that RTA has not been helpful.  Just one recent example: despite the imploring by you/AAO and the Feds: RTA has been silent with regard to revamping and relocating the 2 Red Line stations that are ADA non-compliant.  Calabrese is pulling his pockets out saying "we're broke; can't do anything"... meanwhile, RTA is planning to build a 2nd ADA elevator at E. 105 adjacent to the new OC... How did that happen?  How could RTA tacitly to let rail transit close for supposed lack of money to build an elevator at either of them while proposing to build an elevator at a station that already has one?  Riddle me that one, Batman.

 

And there's such a negative track record toward rail transit under Calabrese that I've previously addressed, but won't get into here... Suffice it to say:  I'll respectfully disagree with you:  RTA absolutely should be burned at the stake (your words) for either actively considering this or not at least killing any rumor suggesting it could happen.

 

 

Well we don't have to lie back and take this.

 

For one it's not much more than rumor, and two, we still have time to fight back. Raise the alarm. I ride RTA at least 2-3 times a week to my volunteering positions Downtown. We passed the sales tax revenue with one of America's highest margin of voters approving. We can, as riders and residents, create something even better.

 

The other factor is whether, upon retirement of the Tokyu cars, GCRTA shifts use of the new cars to the Red Line and then converts the Shaker lines to BRT. Yes, there is gossip at GCRTA that they will convert the Shaker Rapid to BRT coincident with the introduction of the University Circle Express (UCX) bus service to park-n-ride lots at North Randall and Chagrin Highlands.

 

I give up.  There really is no hope for rail in this City.

 

I'm practically speechless on such profound stupidity... But in reality, it should not be surprising, really, with Joe Calabrese and his rail-hating, right-wing cronies... This has been the plan all along, although Jerry Masek refused to show his hand when asked why RTA was planning parallel BRT to Shaker Rapid lines...

 

... All I can say is, if this is truly the direction the Calabrese clan is heading in, he's going to have a HUGE FIGHT on his hands, because people won't stand for this nonsense ... And I certainly hope KJP doesn't just share this "rumor" here, but go to the press with it; notably Alison Grant at the PD who has written good articles about Amtrak lately, and has quoted him in several recent articles as AAO's director... This "rumor" is an outrage and needs to be given wide media coverage ASAP, because it, plus the thrust to get/receive the lone TIGER grant to build the crazy OC highway, threatens to set Cleveland transit and TOD development back several decades -- probably 1/2 century or more...

 

 

I can see putting in BRT as a cheaper alternative to laying down tracks.  But to literally spend money demolishing the tracks?  That's what makes this such a profoundly dumb idea.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/10/cleveland_state_university_buy.html#incart_river

 

"CSU is paying $150,000 a year to put the school's name on the upgraded 55 route, which begins service in November."

 

will there be a stop at W. 73rd and the shoreway when the construction is complete.  will this route be running a 7 day a week schedule?

 

 

Maybe it's because of the places I've lived, but if I see a bus with a university logo, the first thing I think is that it's a university-operated shuttle, not public transportation. Just seems like a weird sponsorship for both CSU and RTA.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/10/cleveland_state_university_buy.html#incart_river

 

"CSU is paying $150,000 a year to put the school's name on the upgraded 55 route, which begins service in November."

 

will there be a stop at W. 73rd and the shoreway when the construction is complete.  will this route be running a 7 day a week schedule?

 

Good idea! I responded further here: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,4446.msg728990.html#msg728990

Well we don't have to lie back and take this.

 

For one it's not much more than rumor, and two, we still have time to fight back. Raise the alarm. I ride RTA at least 2-3 times a week to my volunteering positions Downtown. We passed the sales tax revenue with one of America's highest margin of voters approving. We can, as riders and residents, create something even better.

 

 

We definitely need to fight back but, happily, my sense is that it will remain a rumor (though we still need to monitor it closely and, perhaps, raise some other folks antennae as well)...

 

Thankfully, I just don't see it happening.  The Shaker Rapid (aka the RTA Blue & Green lines) are as central to Shaker Heights' being as its schools, its tree-lined streets, its mansions, the Shaker Lakes, the Country Club, etc.... Remember, Shaker Heights went out and bought the freakin' railroad when its existence was threatened at the dawn of the automobile era of the 1940s.  It's also the same suburb, in the 60s, that stared down and whipped both Bert Porter and Jim Rhodes -- 2 powerful freeway-mad bigwigs who (stupidly) were bound and determined to shove the infamous Clark Freeway right through the Shaker Lakes; Porter in particular, sought to bustitute the Shaker Rapid back then ... And while it's true that, these days, Shaker's lost a bit off its fastball, it's still home to a lot of powerful folks who won't at all take kindly to even the whiff of closing down it's treasured Rapid in favor of some slow-moving, smelly buses. 

 

Joe Calabrese is a devious, rail-hating schemer, but he's no dummy either.  He's a guy who cares very much about his public persona and he can read tea leaves, as well... I don't care how many alleged statistics he can throw out about how much money RTA's losing running the Shaker Lines, he knows good & well that if he even suggests gutting this Rapid as KJP outlines, the good and powerful folks of Shaker (and many of its powerful neighbors such as those who drive in to the Rapid from lower Cleve Hts (the wealthy part that is), Beachwood, Pepper Pike, Hunting Valley, and others), will throw him and his RTA cronies out on their arses.  RTA's Board knows that too.

 

 

Since when did RTA reduce the Red Line frequency to every 30 minutes after 8:00pm? I was under the impression they ran every 15 minutes but recall waiting over 20 minutes for a train after an Indians game in early September. Is this adjusted for special events downtown? Wouldn't this hurt people taking the Rapid to Cavs games this season?

Since when did RTA reduce the Red Line frequency to every 30 minutes after 8:00pm? I was under the impression they ran every 15 minutes but recall waiting over 20 minutes for a train after an Indians game in early September. Is this adjusted for special events downtown? Wouldn't this hurt people taking the Rapid to Cavs games this season?

 

It started in September, if I recall correctly. GCRTA has been tweeting out the new schedule, e.g.:

 

Greater Cleve RTA @GCRTA  ·  1h 1 hour ago

Mon 10/6-Thurs 10/9, EB Red Line trains leaving @GoingPlacesCLE after 8pm will depart 15 mins LATER than sched time. http://bit.ly/1twxiCt

Well we don't have to lie back and take this.

 

For one it's not much more than rumor, and two, we still have time to fight back. Raise the alarm. I ride RTA at least 2-3 times a week to my volunteering positions Downtown. We passed the sales tax revenue with one of America's highest margin of voters approving. We can, as riders and residents, create something even better.

 

 

We definitely need to fight back but, happily, my sense is that it will remain a rumor (though we still need to monitor it closely and, perhaps, raise some other folks antennae as well)...

 

Thankfully, I just don't see it happening.  The Shaker Rapid (aka the RTA Blue & Green lines) are as central to Shaker Heights' being as its schools, its tree-lined streets, its mansions, the Shaker Lakes, the Country Club, etc.... Remember, Shaker Heights went out and bought the freakin' railroad when its existence was threatened at the dawn of the automobile era of the 1940s.  It's also the same suburb, in the 60s, that stared down and whipped both Bert Porter and Jim Rhodes -- 2 powerful freeway-mad bigwigs who (stupidly) were bound and determined to shove the infamous Clark Freeway right through the Shaker Lakes; Porter in particular, sought to bustitute the Shaker Rapid back then ... And while it's true that, these days, Shaker's lost a bit off its fastball, it's still home to a lot of powerful folks who won't at all take kindly to even the whiff of closing down it's treasured Rapid in favor of some slow-moving, smelly buses. 

 

Joe Calabrese is a devious, rail-hating schemer, but he's no dummy either.  He's a guy who cares very much about his public persona and he can read tea leaves, as well... I don't care how many alleged statistics he can throw out about how much money RTA's losing running the Shaker Lines, he knows good & well that if he even suggests gutting this Rapid as KJP outlines, the good and powerful folks of Shaker (and many of its powerful neighbors such as those who drive in to the Rapid from lower Cleve Hts (the wealthy part that is), Beachwood, Pepper Pike, Hunting Valley, and others), will throw him and his RTA cronies out on their arses.  RTA's Board knows that too.

 

 

One of my favorite bits of Cleveland history is Shaker vs. Porter. Also maybe up there with the history of Terminal Tower and the Vans.

 

I agree Shaker won't let RTA get away with it, thankfully. Sometimes the old guard can fight the old guard. Still it's worth it, I think, to bring it to residents' attentions that we need a serious look at our transport policies. Porter's been dead, his ideas are weirdly sometimes still around.

 

Also on the subject of Red Line delays, it's apparently due to construction. It'll end October 18th.

Well we don't have to lie back and take this.

 

For one it's not much more than rumor, and two, we still have time to fight back. Raise the alarm. I ride RTA at least 2-3 times a week to my volunteering positions Downtown. We passed the sales tax revenue with one of America's highest margin of voters approving. We can, as riders and residents, create something even better.

 

 

We definitely need to fight back but, happily, my sense is that it will remain a rumor (though we still need to monitor it closely and, perhaps, raise some other folks antennae as well)...

 

Thankfully, I just don't see it happening.  The Shaker Rapid (aka the RTA Blue & Green lines) are as central to Shaker Heights' being as its schools, its tree-lined streets, its mansions, the Shaker Lakes, the Country Club, etc.... Remember, Shaker Heights went out and bought the freakin' railroad when its existence was threatened at the dawn of the automobile era of the 1940s.  It's also the same suburb, in the 60s, that stared down and whipped both Bert Porter and Jim Rhodes -- 2 powerful freeway-mad bigwigs who (stupidly) were bound and determined to shove the infamous Clark Freeway right through the Shaker Lakes; Porter in particular, sought to bustitute the Shaker Rapid back then ... And while it's true that, these days, Shaker's lost a bit off its fastball, it's still home to a lot of powerful folks who won't at all take kindly to even the whiff of closing down it's treasured Rapid in favor of some slow-moving, smelly buses. 

 

Joe Calabrese is a devious, rail-hating schemer, but he's no dummy either.  He's a guy who cares very much about his public persona and he can read tea leaves, as well... I don't care how many alleged statistics he can throw out about how much money RTA's losing running the Shaker Lines, he knows good & well that if he even suggests gutting this Rapid as KJP outlines, the good and powerful folks of Shaker (and many of its powerful neighbors such as those who drive in to the Rapid from lower Cleve Hts (the wealthy part that is), Beachwood, Pepper Pike, Hunting Valley, and others), will throw him and his RTA cronies out on their arses.  RTA's Board knows that too.

 

 

True.  There's plenty of anecdotal evidence that more affluent commuters strongly prefer trains to buses. That line about "smelly buses" applies to the interior as well as the exterior, as far as their perceptions are concerned.

 

As you say, it's quite iconic to Shaker Heights.  I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere deep in the codicils involved with the Shaker Rapid's acquisition by RTA is a provision that trains must always run to Shaker Heights.

 

One of my favorite bits of Cleveland history is Shaker vs. Porter. Also maybe up there with the history of Terminal Tower and the Vans.

 

I agree Shaker won't let RTA get away with it, thankfully. Sometimes the old guard can fight the old guard. Still it's worth it, I think, to bring it to residents' attentions that we need a serious look at our transport policies. Porter's been dead, his ideas are weirdly sometimes still around.

 

I agree Zak on both your points... Yes, this issue even expands beyond just Shaker because the Vans legacy -- and model for the nation -- also includes the Terminal Tower Group (now the amazing Tower City), Shaker Square, Beachwood, Pepper Pike, University Hts (the Vans relocated John Carroll from the current St. Ignatius HS site in 1930), much of Gates Mills  ... and even the Red Line, in addition to Shaker Heights... Translation: a whole lot of folks, in addition to Shakerites, would revolt against the destruction of the Shaker Rapid for buses. 

 

I also agree that the public needs to be made aware that of how absurd it is that some "planners" are still peddling the same old deleterious, anti-urban (and downtown Cleveland killing) policies of long-gone Albert Porter -- the OC is just one scary piece of evidence that ol' Bert still has a pulse.  And if, as KJP noted, RTA's plan to run buses along Van Aken to U. Circle from the Highlands is just step 1 in some "rumored" run-up to a whole-scale Rapid-to-bus conversion, the media, and hopefully, the Public needs to hear about it ASAP.

 

Perhaps a few well placed emails to the right journalists --- and maybe even a CWRU Observer piece -- need to happen.

 

One of my favorite bits of Cleveland history is Shaker vs. Porter. Also maybe up there with the history of Terminal Tower and the Vans.

 

I agree Shaker won't let RTA get away with it, thankfully. Sometimes the old guard can fight the old guard. Still it's worth it, I think, to bring it to residents' attentions that we need a serious look at our transport policies. Porter's been dead, his ideas are weirdly sometimes still around.

 

I agree Zak on both your points... Yes, this issue even expands beyond just Shaker because the Vans legacy -- and model for the nation -- also includes the Terminal Tower Group (now the amazing Tower City), Shaker Square, Beachwood, Pepper Pike, University Hts (the Vans relocated John Carroll from the current St. Ignatius HS site in 1930), much of Gates Mills  ... and even the Red Line, in addition to Shaker Heights... Translation: a whole lot of folks, in addition to Shakerites, would revolt against the destruction of the Shaker Rapid for buses. 

 

I also agree that the public needs to be made aware that of how absurd it is that some "planners" are still peddling the same old deleterious, anti-urban (and downtown Cleveland killing) policies of long-gone Albert Porter -- the OC is just one scary piece of evidence that ol' Bert still has a pulse.  And if, as KJP noted, RTA's plan to run buses along Van Aken to U. Circle from the Highlands is just step 1 in some "rumored" run-up to a whole-scale Rapid-to-bus conversion, the media, and hopefully, the Public needs to hear about it ASAP.

 

Perhaps a few well placed emails to the right journalists --- and maybe even a CWRU Observer piece -- need to happen.

 

Well my last letter to the editor made it in, let's see if I can get two!

GCRTA is being forced to spend $16 million to rebuild the East 79th Street Red Line station that now carries 155 passengers a day. Do the math. If you invested about $105,000 in a moderately aggressive transportation annuity account for each rider, it probably could provide him or her with $4,000 a year in transportation funds for them and their family, in perpetuity. They each could buy a new Hyundai Accent every four years and still have a few hundred left to put towards insurance, though they would be on their own for the gasoline, repairs and maintenance.

 

The ship has sailed for the East 79th station and the CDC blew it. They allowed non-transit supportive developments -- a bakery expansion with only 15 new jobs, and a metal recycling business to be surrounding land uses. Any housing development to be developed in the neighborhood would be beyond these pedestrian-unfriendly uses -- totally ass-backwards.

 

Wayne Mortensen of Cleveland Neighborhood Progress (a normal person from Nebraska) was the only one at a recent meeting to speak up against this idiotic position. Everyone else looked at him like he was crazy. He will be voted off the island in due course.

 

The plan for East 34th Street ADA improvements is to build a 600 foot ramp along the former Shaker Rapid slope, to the far end of the platform, then put in a grade crossing. It is like something you would see in Eastern Europe, though not worse than those things they built at Buckeye Woodhill.

 

There is no discussion of moving the East 79th station to the Buckeye/Woodland intersection as recommended in the Dual Hub Transitional Analysis or to move the East 34th Street Station to East 30th Street with extensions of the E-Line trolley to serve the Tri-C campus more effectively.  There is no imagination and big thinking occurring.  It is all neighborhood politics and keeping things simple and cheap for GCRTA engineering staff. This would be a huge missed opportunity for transit to become more relevant in the redevelopment of neighborhoods.

^For that small stretch of E. 79th street, 2 fully grade-separated rail stations about (what?) .5 miles from each other in a depressed, de-populated neighborhood probably isn't the best allocation of resources.  However, your suggestion of relocating the Red Line station a few blocks east to the corner of E. 89th/Buckeye/Woodland made a lot of sense and would be on land (and on traffic routes) that would make this location far more develop-able than the current station at E.79...

 

... btw, I share your head-scratching about the Woodhill station.  It's clean, shiny and modern looking (far better than the crumbling thing it replaced), but I can't thinking it's something akin to giant hamster maze built for humans.

And note what I posted here about Public Square:

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,6560.msg729638.html#msg729638

GCRTA is being forced to spend $16 million to rebuild the East 79th Street Red Line station that now carries 155 passengers a day. Do the math. If you invested about $105,000 in a moderately aggressive transportation annuity account for each rider, it probably could provide him or her with $4,000 a year in transportation funds for them and their family, in perpetuity. They each could buy a new Hyundai Accent every four years and still have a few hundred left to put towards insurance, though they would be on their own for the gasoline, repairs and maintenance.

 

The ship has sailed for the East 79th station and the CDC blew it. They allowed non-transit supportive developments -- a bakery expansion with only 15 new jobs, and a metal recycling business to be surrounding land uses. Any housing development to be developed in the neighborhood would be beyond these pedestrian-unfriendly uses -- totally ass-backwards.

 

Wayne Mortensen of Cleveland Neighborhood Progress (a normal person from Nebraska) was the only one at a recent meeting to speak up against this idiotic position. Everyone else looked at him like he was crazy. He will be voted off the island in due course.

 

The plan for East 34th Street ADA improvements is to build a 600 foot ramp along the former Shaker Rapid slope, to the far end of the platform, then put in a grade crossing. It is like something you would see in Eastern Europe, though not worse than those things they built at Buckeye Woodhill.

 

There is no discussion of moving the East 79th station to the Buckeye/Woodland intersection as recommended in the Dual Hub Transitional Analysis or to move the East 34th Street Station to East 30th Street with extensions of the E-Line trolley to serve the Tri-C campus more effectively.  There is no imagination and big thinking occurring.  It is all neighborhood politics and keeping things simple and cheap for GCRTA engineering staff. This would be a huge missed opportunity for transit to become more relevant in the redevelopment of neighborhoods.

The Red Line isn't really suitable for this.  It's loud, and it's located in a ditch (in part to alleviate the noise).  People with options aren't going to want to live in close proximity. 

 

What it is suitable for is getting a lot of people long distances in a hurry.

 

The best approach IMO is to get rid of the stations at 34th and 79th entirely.  Expand parking and bus capacity at 55th, and make it the “hub” of many east side bus runs.  You pay to enter the controlled area, transfers within it are free.  The Red Line goes nonstop to Tower City.  This is compatible with both the OC and the plans for Public Square.

 

Perhaps do something similar at 105th, especially if one of the Shaker lines can get routed there.

 

The Red Line isn't really suitable for this.  It's loud, and it's located in a ditch (in part to alleviate the noise).  People with options aren't going to want to live in close proximity. 

 

You and your mind-numbing stereotypes.

 

Me and my thought-provoking realities:

 

 

An easy walk....

 

A parking lot today, but tomorrow? Hmm....

Is it the Feds that are forcing RTA to rebuild the East 79th station?  Is there any coordination between these decisions and the planning work being done in connection with the Opportunity Corridor?

How far is RTA with 79th and 34th? They've shown they CAN move stations, like the new Little Italy-University Circle Red Line station. They listened to citizens concerns in planning that one. Can we still voice anything? I don't believe they've made anything set in stone, have they?

GCRTA is being forced to spend $16 million to rebuild the East 79th Street Red Line station that now carries 155 passengers a day. Do the math. If you invested about $105,000 in a moderately aggressive transportation annuity account for each rider, it probably could provide him or her with $4,000 a year in transportation funds for them and their family, in perpetuity. They each could buy a new Hyundai Accent every four years and still have a few hundred left to put towards insurance, though they would be on their own for the gasoline, repairs and maintenance.

 

The ship has sailed for the East 79th station and the CDC blew it. They allowed non-transit supportive developments -- a bakery expansion with only 15 new jobs, and a metal recycling business to be surrounding land uses. Any housing development to be developed in the neighborhood would be beyond these pedestrian-unfriendly uses -- totally ass-backwards.

 

Wayne Mortensen of Cleveland Neighborhood Progress (a normal person from Nebraska) was the only one at a recent meeting to speak up against this idiotic position. Everyone else looked at him like he was crazy. He will be voted off the island in due course.

 

The plan for East 34th Street ADA improvements is to build a 600 foot ramp along the former Shaker Rapid slope, to the far end of the platform, then put in a grade crossing. It is like something you would see in Eastern Europe, though not worse than those things they built at Buckeye Woodhill.

 

There is no discussion of moving the East 79th station to the Buckeye/Woodland intersection as recommended in the Dual Hub Transitional Analysis or to move the East 34th Street Station to East 30th Street with extensions of the E-Line trolley to serve the Tri-C campus more effectively.  There is no imagination and big thinking occurring.  It is all neighborhood politics and keeping things simple and cheap for GCRTA engineering staff. This would be a huge missed opportunity for transit to become more relevant in the redevelopment of neighborhoods.

The Red Line isn't really suitable for this.  It's loud, and it's located in a ditch (in part to alleviate the noise).  People with options aren't going to want to live in close proximity. 

 

What it is suitable for is getting a lot of people long distances in a hurry.

 

The best approach IMO is to get rid of the stations at 34th and 79th entirely.  Expand parking and bus capacity at 55th, and make it the “hub” of many east side bus runs.  You pay to enter the controlled area, transfers within it are free.  The Red Line goes nonstop to Tower City.  This is compatible with both the OC and the plans for Public Square.

 

Perhaps do something similar at 105th, especially if one of the Shaker lines can get routed there.

 

 

"in a ditch"?  It's never been in a ditch to alleviate noise.  Where did you get that???

 

"its loud"?

 

The Green line travels right past my front door. That is loud!

 

Routing the Shaker rapid to east 105 is ridiculous and not feasible.