I worry this thread may be getting a little out of hand with the supposed "anti rail" sentiment at RTA. I get the disappointment with the lack of rail expansion, the frustration with this winter's awful reliability, and the concern about RTA's long term commitment to our pathetically under-used light rail lines, but seriously, RTA isn't about to walk away from the rail lines.  They spend tens of millions on station projects every year. Joe C has publicly mentioned that they plan to replace the rail fleet in about 10 years.  The system has been losing bus route miles far faster than it's lost rail service hours.

 

[Edited for typo]

I've said this before upthread, but hopefully when the Cincinnati Streetcar is a rousing success, some minds will open up at RTA, ODOT, etc...

I've said this before upthread, but hopefully when the Cincinnati Streetcar is a rousing success, some minds will open up at RTA, ODOT, etc...

 

I'm not sure minds are capable of being opened at ODOT unfortunately...

Joe C has publicly mentioned that they plan to replace the rail fleet in about 10 years. 

 

Replace? Like with BRT?

It occurs to me that the anti-rail sentiment at RTA could be self-defeating. 

 

Most of my white, middle-class suburbanite friends and colleagues never use public transit except when they ride the rapid downtown to an event.  And the never, ever, ever, EVER, board a bus.  Even in other cities with highly effective bus service.  Even on a brand-new BRT system with shiny new buses.    Trains are viewed as safe, clean, civilized and acceptable to them.  I can't imagine a train load of Browns fans being stuck on the tracks, pushed into the station and having to climb the platform.  Or being put on a shuttle buses with a disorientated and under-trained driver to continue the journey downtown.

 

So if RTA lets our rail die, they may lose a valuable ally in the suburban middle class voter who does use the trains to get downtown on occasion to avoid parking, etc.    These folks would never support a bus-only system.  Their tax dollars should not go to buses.   

 

The powers that be at RTA should take heed and get their bifocal prescription updated.  Their nearsighted neglect now may be their undoing in the future. 

 

Bing Geaux.

 

If the system's objective is to truly become a "soup kitchen on wheels" and perpetuate Krumholtz's antipathy towards "fat cats", by all means phase out trains in favor of buses.  People without other options are typically less demanding, after all.

 

Just be ready to lose relevance and support.

Joe C has publicly mentioned that they plan to replace the rail fleet in about 10 years. 

 

Replace? Like with BRT?

 

You beat me to it.

Joe C has publicly mentioned that they plan to replace the rail fleet in about 10 years. 

 

Replace? Like with BRT?

 

Touché, but no, he mentioned in last week's Sound of Ideas program the need for new rail cars. Per KJP a few months ago, will be interesting to see how many they order to get a sense how committed they are to current service levels on the entire rail system.

I don't think RTA is continuously upgrading--not only upgrading, but rebuilding--stations along all of its rail lines so that the trains can be replaced with buses. Also, it is illogical to think that RTA is scheming to lure people onto buses by making their rail commutes difficult, and, even though this past week has strained the patience of many a non-transit-dependent rider, the system is not a soup kitchen on wheels. This discussion has become absurd.

Joe C has publicly mentioned that they plan to replace the rail fleet in about 10 years. 

 

Replace? Like with BRT?

 

Touché, but no, he mentioned in last week's Sound of Ideas program the need for new rail cars. Per KJP a few months ago, will be interesting to see how many they order to get a sense how committed they are to current service levels on the entire rail system.

 

He mentioned the need for them, but also admitted that they have no plans in place to replace them nor any idea how they'd pay for it.

Joe C has publicly mentioned that they plan to replace the rail fleet in about 10 years. 

 

Replace? Like with BRT?

 

Touché, but no, he mentioned in last week's Sound of Ideas program the need for new rail cars. Per KJP a few months ago, will be interesting to see how many they order to get a sense how committed they are to current service levels on the entire rail system.

 

He mentioned the need for them, but also admitted that they have no plans in place to replace them nor any idea how they'd pay for it.

 

If that's indeed true then I'm with Vince. Because that is absurd.

Joe C has publicly mentioned that they plan to replace the rail fleet in about 10 years. 

 

Replace? Like with BRT?

 

Touché, but no, he mentioned in last week's Sound of Ideas program the need for new rail cars. Per KJP a few months ago, will be interesting to see how many they order to get a sense how committed they are to current service levels on the entire rail system.

 

He mentioned the need for them, but also admitted that they have no plans in place to replace them nor any idea how they'd pay for it.

 

If that's indeed true then I'm with Vince. Because that is absurd.

 

My apologies, I was mixing up things in my head. He said that we have the oldest average rail fleet in the country and will need to be replaced in 2025 at a cost of $250-300 million, and said that's something "we're looking at in the future as well." It seems though that there are some doubts about the rail fleet making it that long, as KJP as noted a few times.

I don't think RTA is continuously upgrading--not only upgrading, but rebuilding--stations along all of its rail lines so that the trains can be replaced with buses. Also, it is illogical to think that RTA is scheming to lure people onto buses by making their rail commutes difficult, and, even though this past week has strained the patience of many a non-transit-dependent rider, the system is not a soup kitchen on wheels. This discussion has become absurd.

 

Agree. Consider how much federal funding GCRTA has spent and is spending all rail lines -- for stations, electrical substations, bridges, tracks, and state of good repair. In each four-year NOACA Transportation Improvement Program, GCRTA invests an approximate average of up to $150 million on rail projects and at least half of that is coming from federal sources. That's some $350 million to $500 million worth of federal dollars over the past 20 or 30 years. Until the 20- or 30-year lives of those federally funded projects expire, GCRTA is on the hook for them if they stop using them. Thus, if they cease rail service, they may be required to reimburse some or all of the federal contribution.

 

Furthermore, GCRTA would have to hold public hearings and get Federal Transit Administration approval before discontinuing rail service, even if it is replaced by another transit service, such as a bus service. You saw what happened when GCRTA recently wanted to close two little-used rail stations. Not only didn't anyone in those neighborhoods want to see them closed, they didn't even want to move them to a nearby but more accessible/visible location. What do you think would happen if GCRTA tried to replace the Green/Blue lines with buses?

 

Now, there is the school of thought that these worsening reliability problems with the rail system will force GCRTA to use buses as stopgap measures. Some of the problems are with the Tower City station tracks/switches/power systems to which GCRTA has budgeted repair funding. All Aboard Ohio is complaining not about the need for repairs -- GCRTA is well aware of the need. AAO is angry because no backup operations and notification plan was put into effect for when the busiest station in the entire system cannot function -- when it was, it was done very slowly. Other problems are with the aging railcars themselves. I know that GCRTA would love to replace the railcars, and All Aboard Ohio has gotten on GCRTA brass about not beginning a replacement plan with annual set-aside funding at any time in the past 30 years. Had they begun setting aside $2 million per year after they acquired their railcars in the early 1980s and invested those funds at an average treasury rate of 5%, with compound interest today GCRTA would have $123,143,465.54 in local funding to leverage a federal match of a similar amount. $246 million is probably enough to replace the entire rail fleet with new cars.

 

Since that train left the station a long time ago, GCRTA's only recourse may be to finance new railcars against future revenues, including a bond issue or leasing/loan financing from a railcar manufacturer. Also, since many of these manufacturers are based in Europe, Euro-denominated loans are a lot cheaper than American ones due to the currency exchange rates http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/25/pricing-loans-idUSL5N0VZ5I420150225 which would probably require third-party involvement such a foreign import/export bank. FYI: the Export Development Corporation (EDC) of Canada financed Amtrak's acquisition of its Canadian-built Acela trains in 2000. There's more than one way to address this if you recognize that coming up with a local/state grant to leverage a federal matching grant may not be forthcoming.

 

So I don't see the rail system getting replaced with buses. But I don't see it expanding either unless GCRTA or a top elected official or board leads an inclusive community conversation on revisiting the transit system's goals, strategies, organization, service area, funding and service delivery. We haven't had such a broad conversation since GCRTA was established 40 years ago this year. We've been treading water for a while now and instead need to get out in front of how we're going to deliver public transportation to ourselves and/or our neighbors. Increasingly I have come to doubt that anyone else will help us.

And again...

 

From a rider:

@AllAboardOhio Well, @GCRTA failed us again today. Green line trains every 30-40 mins w/ no text alerts until after asked on Twitter? #Fail

 

From GCRTA:

Blue Line rail service SUPPLEMENTED w/ buses due to power issues along Van Aken btwn Shaker Sq & Warr-Van Aken.

 

Blue&Green lines SUPPLEMENTED w/ buses btwn Shaker Sq & ends of lines due to CEI power issues. Reg rail btwn ShakerSq & TC. B/G every 20 min

 

 

 

 

I don't think RTA is continuously upgrading--not only upgrading, but rebuilding--stations along all of its rail lines so that the trains can be replaced with buses. Also, it is illogical to think that RTA is scheming to lure people onto buses by making their rail commutes difficult, and, even though this past week has strained the patience of many a non-transit-dependent rider, the system is not a soup kitchen on wheels. This discussion has become absurd.

 

The "soup kitchen on wheels" line was made by another poster awhile back, I preferred to say social program rather than a transportation resource.  It means focusing on being a last resort for those without other options.  Such a system would be easier to plan and maintain.  But it would be politically less relevant.

 

I would not use the word "lure" in this case.  "Push" might be a better one.  Indeed, "luring" people onto buses would more likely mean making them so comfortable with the way trains are run that they are willing to try the buses.  Nor is "scheming" the right word.  It's more of a passive thing than an active one, and perhaps not entirely intentional.

Greater Cleve RTA ‏@GCRTA  9m9 minutes ago

Blue & Green Line service has been restored and shuttle buses have been canceled.

Compare and contrast GCRTA's ability to respond to passenger information needs when they can plan weeks in advances vs respond on-the-fly:

 

Roxanne Kilbourne ‏@Roxannimal  Mar 2 Cleveland, OH

You'd think when the train is delayed 45 minutes+ there miiiiight be an announcement at the station or am I just talking crazy? @GCRTA

 

Katie King ‏@KatieKing_KK  2h2 hours ago

Well, @GCRTA failed us again today. Green line trains every 30-40 mins w/ no text alerts until after asked on Twitter? #Fail

 

Tom Horsman ‏@TomHorsman  Mar 2

I will say this though, the @GCRTA staff/volunteers on Public Square today were very helpful & friendly helping ppl find relocated bus stops

 

Mark Giuliano @mark_giuliano  ·  Mar 2

Kudos to @GCRTA for assistants on #PublicSquare to help people find new bus stops! #CLErespect #ThisIsCle

Also getting reports of helpful GCRTA supervisors standing out in the cold for hours and helping passengers with questions at the end of the Blue and Green lines. Glad to see this is happening.

 

BTW, I sat down and estimated what it might cost for GCRTA to do a Boston-like tally of its rail repair/modernization needs. Why Boston? I posted it here....

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=2768.msg747025#msg747025

From the GCRTA Facebook page:

 

"Statement by Joe Calabrese, RTA CEO & General Manager

 

Cleveland has been experiencing a brutal winter. Record low temperatures make any commute difficult, but I know that it has been especially difficult for RTA customers.

 

Our transit system has been impacted by significant snow, record low temperatures and ice storms -- creating frozen overhead power lines, frozen switches, six cars stuck on tracks, snow pile ups, floods and water main breaks. In fact, we have had 16 water main breaks since January alone.

 

Nearly 200,000 customers have come to rely on RTA every day to commute to work or school. Nearly 40,000 of them use our rail system. And our rail service has disappointed those customers all too many times over the last couple of weeks.

 

First and foremost, we would like to apologize to our customers for the significant service interruptions and delays. We have made you late for work, late for school or late for other important appointments. In many cases, we have had to replace our rail service with emergency bus service. Compounding this inconvenience has been our failure to effectively communicate with our customers. Late is never good, disrupted service is never good, and when customers don’t know what’s happening, or what’s happening next, it is unacceptable.

 

This past week alone, many of our customers waited far longer than they wanted for their train. We had a combination of mechanical and software issues that affected 24 switches in Tower City.

 

Because all trains travel through Tower City, the switch defects at that location affected the Red Line as well as the Blue/Green Line, causing major delays. RTA crews had to manually control the switches. To ensure safety -- always our number one priority -- trains had to move at restricted speeds through Tower City.

 

In the next couple of weeks, we will begin a multi-year, $20 million upgrade to the track system throughout Tower City. Some areas, such as substructure and drainage, has been in place since 1955, with minor upgrades done in the 1980s. Long term, we need signal upgrades, track bridges, power substations, right-of-way work, and even new rail cars, which are now more than 30 years old.

 

Currently, our system is safe. With the work that is scheduled to begin soon, not only will our service continue to be safe, but we’ll be able to put the word “rapid” back into RTA Rapid Transit service.

 

But how do we better serve our customers today, tomorrow and every day?

 

Effective immediately, when weather conditions are suspect, we will strategically locate buses on standby where they can be placed into service to serve customers in short order in the event of a rail interruption. We will implement a comprehensive communication plan to better inform our customers of service delays as they occur. The plan will ensure that customers on delayed trains, or waiting on a station’s platform, will receive timely updates.

 

Additionally, we will work to push more information out to customers earlier to allow you to make better informed decisions relating to your daily commute.

 

We greatly appreciate and value the relationship we have with each of our customers. We know that, in recent weeks, we have failed to provide you with the level of service you deserve. Moving forward, we are committed to working harder to regain your trust and fulfill our mission of providing every customer – safe, reliable, clean and courteous public transportation."

Should also post the link....

http://www.riderta.com/news/we-apologize-our-customers-significant-service-delays

You might also be interested in one of the items discussed in yesterday's Board Committee meetings, procurement of design services for reconstruction of two tracks in Tower City:

 

http://www.riderta.com/sites/default/files/pdf/presentations/2015-03-03TCtracks.pdf

 

This should be the first of several such procurements to perform much-needed work on that infrastructure.

:wtf:

:wtf:

Track rendering is interesting for the novice. Can it be made bigger? Which tracks are the old Shaker tracks? Just dreaming: I would like to see some use for these tracks. Any suggestions?

Compare and contrast GCRTA's ability to respond to passenger information needs when they can plan weeks in advances vs respond on-the-fly:

 

That's any bureaucracy, indeed it's usually the case with any large entity.

JeTDoG, thanks for sending the Tower City information. It was interesting to see the before and after pics of the airport tunnel.

JeTDoG, thanks for sending the Tower City information. It was interesting to see the before and after pics of the airport tunnel.

 

You're quite welcome. I have to say, I was quite surprised at the difference in the Airport tunnel myself. Before, the area was more suited to mud wrestling than transit operation. After, the track bed is practically clean enough to eat off of. This was the result of VASTLY improving the drainage system at that location.

 

I know our engineering folks love those preformed concrete tie beds. That is the same technology that was used when we rebuilt the west side S-curve. It makes for a much smoother, more reliable ride, and we should achieve similar results in Tower City.

You might also be interested in one of the items discussed in yesterday's Board Committee meetings, procurement of design services for reconstruction of two tracks in Tower City:

 

http://www.riderta.com/sites/default/files/pdf/presentations/2015-03-03TCtracks.pdf

 

This should be the first of several such procurements to perform much-needed work on that infrastructure.

 

Thanks JetDog; very interesting... Isn't Track 7 a non-revenue through track? It sounds like the plan is to put an auxiliary platform along this track, no?  ... I'm just glad to see those ancient Tower City cracking/peeling retaining walls of those tunnels and tracks finally get fixed.

^ This is exciting. I haven't been back in the old Shaker Rapid station area since I was a little kid.

You might also be interested in one of the items discussed in yesterday's Board Committee meetings, procurement of design services for reconstruction of two tracks in Tower City:

 

http://www.riderta.com/sites/default/files/pdf/presentations/2015-03-03TCtracks.pdf

 

This should be the first of several such procurements to perform much-needed work on that infrastructure.

 

Thanks JetDog; very interesting... Isn't Track 7 a non-revenue through track? It sounds like the plan is to put an auxiliary platform along this track, no?  ... I'm just glad to see those ancient Tower City cracking/peeling retaining walls of those tunnels and tracks finally get fixed.

 

There is already an auxiliary platform out that way, and an elevator that leads up to the main floor of Tower City. We've used it in the past for brief periods when other work was being done on Track 8, and I suspect we'll use it when Track 8 gets overhauled, based on the schedule that was included in the document I referenced (Track 7 finished before RNC, Track 8 started about a month or two later, after RNC).

Speaking of the RNC...  Kind of sucks for us who solely rely on public transit...

 

RTA rapid could close to public at times during 2016 RNC in Cleveland

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The RTA rapid might close to the public at times during the Republican National Convention in July 2016 as part of a plan to get convention-goers to and from the four-day event, officials said.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2015/03/rta_rapid_trains_could_close_t.html

Speaking of the RNC...  Kind of sucks for us who solely rely on public transit...

 

RTA rapid could close to public at times during 2016 RNC in Cleveland

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The RTA rapid might close to the public at times during the Republican National Convention in July 2016 as part of a plan to get convention-goers to and from the four-day event, officials said.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2015/03/rta_rapid_trains_could_close_t.html

 

I predicted this WAY upthread having been in Charlotte for the DNC.  I'd be surprised if they use the rail to shuttle GOP attendees to waiting charter buses somewhere.  If they close it it would be security concerns, and the "help" would have to find other ways downtown to work their event....

Sounds like all of us should just take that week off from work and hunker down at home. Maybe time to use your blizzard-of-the-century survival protocols!

From the Shaker Heights mayor's monthly e-newsletter.....

 

Mayor Earl M. Leiken's

E-News

March 2015

 

Recent RTA Delays

 

We have heard from many residents about the significant delays and service interruptions on the Green and Blue RTA lines this winter. We know that many residents depend on reliable train service in order to get to work and appointments on time.  We brought this matter to the attention of RTA and received this explanation in response [link to Calabrese apology removed]. The Rapid is of vital significance to Shaker and its residents. We will continue to work closely with GCRTA to ensure that the Rapid remains a reliable form of transportation.

^ New dance has emerged... the Calabrese 2-step.

RTA saves $1.1 million by cutting its Work Access Program

15-year-old initiative provided van rides to and from jobs

By JAY MILLER

March 08, 2015 4:30 AM

 

RTA is eliminating a transit program that helped get people without cars to jobs.

 

The 15-year-old Work Access Program costs the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Service $1.1 million a year. Until two years ago, it was funded by the federal government. But then Congressional transportation priorities changed.

 

Joe Calabrese, in a meeting with Crain's Cleveland Business staffers on Feb. 25, said RTA picked up the cost when the federal money dried up, but it no longer can afford the expense. Employers have been notified that the service will end March 30.

 

The program provided more than 200 Cuyahoga County workers with van rides to or from work, about 2,500 trips monthly.

 

MORE:

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20150308/SUB1/303089980/rta-saves-1-1-million-by-cutting-its-work-access-program

RTA saves $1.1 million by cutting its Work Access Program

15-year-old initiative provided van rides to and from jobs

By JAY MILLER

March 08, 2015 4:30 AM

 

RTA is eliminating a transit program that helped get people without cars to jobs.

 

The 15-year-old Work Access Program costs the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Service $1.1 million a year. Until two years ago, it was funded by the federal government. But then Congressional transportation priorities changed.

 

Joe Calabrese, in a meeting with Crain's Cleveland Business staffers on Feb. 25, said RTA picked up the cost when the federal money dried up, but it no longer can afford the expense. Employers have been notified that the service will end March 30.

 

The program provided more than 200 Cuyahoga County workers with van rides to or from work, about 2,500 trips monthly.

 

MORE:

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20150308/SUB1/303089980/rta-saves-1-1-million-by-cutting-its-work-access-program

 

$5,500 per rider?

$5,500 per rider?

 

Yep. You could buy them a used car, although the monthly cost of a car would still be more expensive than a monthly GCRTA pass. The cost per trip for "demand-response" public transit is near $50 versus about $5 for a regular route bus or train. Shows why bringing employment sites to existing GCRTA routes or extending GCRTA routes to concentrations of employment is much more cost effective.

$5,500 per rider?

 

Yep. You could buy them a used car, although the monthly cost of a car would still be more expensive than a monthly GCRTA pass. The cost per trip for "demand-response" public transit is near $50 versus about $5 for a regular route bus or train. Shows why bringing employment sites to existing GCRTA routes or extending GCRTA routes to concentrations of employment is much more cost effective.

 

At the plant in Strongsville, one of the temp agencies we worked with ran a van from their office.

Rail service on all lines was disrupted again this morning, but was restored with delays as of 7:15 a.m.

 

Also....

 

Red Line Alerts

3/8/15 to 3/14/15 All Rail Riders - Track Maintenance Week of 3/8/15 - 3/14/15

 

And....

 

CLETransit ‏@CLEtransit  6m6 minutes ago

Have you filled out a @GCRTA customer satisfaction survey? Results coming in w comments, suggestions #thankyou http://www.rideRTA.com/feedback

^Disruption this morning!?  The weather is pleasant esp compared to a week ago.

^Disruption this morning!?  The weather is pleasant esp compared to a week ago.

 

Greater Cleve RTA ‏@GCRTA  6h6 hours ago

Blue &green lines currently delayed due to switch issues around E 79th. Frequency unknown at this time. Will update when more info available

Multi-vehicle accident involving Cleveland RTA bus on Interstate 490 near 71

 

A multi-vehicle accident involving a Greater Cleveland RTA bus snarled traffic on Interstate 490 near Interstate 71 Thursday morning.

 

Cleveland fire and emergency crews blocked multiple lanes of I-490 East as crews work to clear the crash just after 7:30 a.m. Thursday.

 

read more: http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2015/03/multi-car_accident_involving_b.html#incart_m-rpt-1

Has RTA ever considered heated bus shelters? Other cities are doing it through grants or sponsorships. I am thinking mostly for the HealthLine because those poorly designed shelters are possibly the coldest place on earth. If you have ever experienced it you know what I mean.

Here are a couple of examples in other cities:

http://www.startribune.com/local/minneapolis/277268711.html

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/its-cold-outside-warm-up-in-select-downtown-boston-heated-bus-shelters-courtesy-of-tylenolr-warming-liquids-61188872.html

Has RTA ever considered heated bus shelters? Other cities are doing it through grants or sponsorships. I am thinking mostly for the HealthLine because those poorly designed shelters are possibly the coldest place on earth. If you have ever experienced it you know what I mean.

 

Worse than E. 9th street without a shelter at all?  That's a wind tunnel.

Heated bus shelters? I have never heard of them being considered here, but I will pass along the idea.

There is plenty of good news at the March 24 Board of Trustee meeting. For the full agenda, go to www.rideRTA.com/news.

^ I would certainly think the heavily used bus shelters in downtown, Ohio City and, say, University Circle should have heat lamps.  Most of the HL stops should have them, especially since they area already electrically wired for the fare machines.

 

For the first time I noted, in Tower City, an entrance to the auxiliary track.  Perhaps the door is new ... or simply newly marked.

^ Was this what you were referring to?

 

 

If so, that's actually been there for quite a while.

There is plenty of good news at the March 24 Board of Trustee meeting. For the full agenda, go to www.rideRTA.com/news.

 

I count nearly $16 million worth of rail projects on the agenda, including the long-planned rebuilding of the Brookpark station.

^ Was this what you were referring to?

 

 

If so, that's actually been there for quite a while.

^ Was this what you were referring to?

 

 

If so, that's actually been there for quite a while.

 

Never paid attention to it...

Highlights from today's Board meeting:

 

* George Dixon was re-elected Board President.

* Westlake Mayor Dennis Clough was re-elected Board VP

 

* The Board awarded a $798,000 contract to design upgrades to the platform and track at the Tower City Station. Construction work will start in 2016.

 

* The Board awarded a contract to improve the South Park grade crossing on the Green Line on April 17-20. Next summer, RTA will improve grade crossings on the Waterfront Line at St. Clair Ave and Robert Lockwood Dr.

 

* The Board awarded an $11.38 million contract to build a new Brookpark Station. Groundbreaking is set for 11:30 a.m. on April 9, 2015. For more information and a rendering, go to www.rideRTA.com/majorprojects/brookpark.

^ Good stuff. Thanks, Jerry. Do you know when the 2014 annual report is due out by chance?