^Obviously there are a lot of repair and maintenance projects for our aging rail system and, although the closures and single-tracking are a pain, I can live with them so long as RTA:  a) is open and specific about the work that's being done (no, not the vague "maintenance" or "track work" reasons for weekend shutdowns -- this won't do), b) there is tangible improvement following the work done, and c) there's some evidence that RTA has chosen the path of least resistance for the closure or single tracking... I do despise all the ODOT closures, esp when RTA just says "ODOT" as a reason for the shutdown...

 

KJP, the TID proposal is interesting. I believe it would be County Council who would need to create the district(s) (here's the relevant Ohio code provision: http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/5540). I need to think about it some more. There is an inherent fairness to it, though. A rail system is arguably a frill to such a dispersed, low congestion region, so we may have to force Shaker Heights property owners, for example, to put their money where their mouth is to preserve the light rail lines.

 

I hear your premise, but I think calling the Rapid a "frill" is a bit strong.  40,000+ rides (and rising) on an avg weekday may be small compared to most systems, but is essential for RTA -- as KJP noted in his article, look at the huge number, and expense, of replacement buses that would be needed if the Rapid shut down.  That's not even considering the considerable TOD the system has generated/is generating (Fairmount for example plans to complete Phases III, IV and V of FEB's TOD development).

 

As to Shaker Heights, it would be unfair to make their residents pay more taxes to "preserve" LRT just because LRT is within Shaker's borders.  Shaker pays some of the highest RE taxes in the county already.  But what about all those non-residents who use the Shaker lines?  Under this theory, shouldn't they pay more too?  Thousands of non-Shaker residents walk, drive or bus to Blue/Green Line stations to access the Rapid (I recall some time ago a stat noting that only 1/3 of Shaker Rapid riders lived within Shaker).  Taxing Shakerites more would just create more division in an already fractured region with too many intramural battles and jealousies.

 

Rapid ridership hasn't been rising. RTA's rail ridership in 2014 (last year we have full data for) is no higher than in 1996 (earliest year APTA has data for). Red Line ridership has been growing, but Blue/Green line ridership has been falling like a rock, completely offsetting the Red Line's gains. So I probably should have specified that our Light Rail is essentially a frill, not the whole system. Especially the Green Line, which has no capacity for TOD and serves an exceptionally low density and high income area east of Shaker Square.

 

I grew up riding the Shaker lines and love them very much. I would kill me to see them ripped out. But in a shrinking county, it's increasingly hard to justify big ticket capital investment in that service, IMHO. A TID isn't ideal, but it would at least give the most immediate stakeholders a chance to rescue it if we ever get to that point.  I'd totally be open to expanding the TID to better capture the ridership base, though, but that also makes the politics trickier.

 

[edited for typos]

^I'm with you about the Green Line.  Very weird service and generally very light traffic.  (the Blue Line is much, much stronger) The only reliable traffic generator is at the end of the line, Green Road, which is strictly for non-walking commuters: drivers from the Eastern burbs with some bus transfers (apparently some Tri-C East students use the  no. 94 bus).  Ridership at that one station, however, can be very heavy during rush periods, sporting and special events -- its a regional draw from Eastern suburbs, including the Chagrin Valley and beyond.  Green Road is the largest parking lot along the Shaker Lines.  Warrensville, which has a smaller lot, sees similar but lighter action than does Green Rd.... Very, very light walk-up traffic on the inner portions of the line and, beyond rush hours, almost none... Traditionally there are some hired help/maids who reverse commute to/from the mansions from Cleveland...

 

It's a shame Krumholz and his buddies shouted down the 1.5 mile extension to I-271 or we'd be looking at a different Green Line, with concentrated TOD office development near he freeway, but it was not to be.

Does Ohio law allow for the county to levy an income tax?

 

My idea was for Transportation Improvement Districts established for existing and future fixed-guideway transit corridors in Cuyahoga County and possibly extending into adjoining counties. TIDs can be established by counties with ODOT's approval or be established by ODOT outright. Here are TID corridors 2,000 feet on either side of transit corridors that would have to generate about $1,500 per acre (from whatever source) for state-of-good-repair and more from existing-route and new-route TIDs for expansion....

 

 

Out of curiosity, why does the Blue Line go SE to Solon instead of S to Walton Hills, where the county line includes a huge all but closed industrial site immediately adjoining a serious regional attraction?  Where a linkup with the Akron system could happen?

 

I doubt Solon buys into the plan, they are already doing well.  Maple, Bedford, and even Walton Hills might.

During the commuter rail studies of 15 years ago (admittedly old), Solon/US422 ridership (especially park & ride) into Cleveland was stronger than that of the Akron corridor via Bedford, Macedonia and Hudson. There's also a very large and growing reverse commute market, as #41 buses from Warrensville to Solon are full to the doors (sometimes have leave prospective riders behind at stops). This includes third shift workers to the plants south of Route 43 from Harper/Cochran east to Solon Road. The #41 was an hourly bus on Warrensville from East Cleveland that used to go only as far south as Southgate. But now it turns east on Route 43 to Solon, runs twice as frequently, and is now the first suburb-to-suburb bus route to run 24 hours a day.

During the commuter rail studies of 15 years ago (admittedly old), Solon/US422 ridership (especially park & ride) into Cleveland was stronger than that of the Akron corridor via Bedford, Macedonia and Hudson. There's also a very large and growing reverse commute market, as #41 buses from Warrensville to Solon are full to the doors (sometimes have leave prospective riders behind at stops). This includes third shift workers to the plants south of Route 43 from Harper/Cochran east to Solon Road. The #41 was an hourly bus on Warrensville from East Cleveland that used to go only as far south as Southgate. But now it turns east on Route 43 to Solon, runs twice as frequently, and is now the first suburb-to-suburb bus route to run 24 hours a day.

 

Those are certainly good reasons.  If anything the trend has increased, that area remains economically strong.

@GCRTA: Sun 10/11-Thurs 10/29, Red Line btwn @GoingPlacesCLE & Puritas replaced w/66R buses due to construction at Brookpark http://t.co/tcHovBt40Z

@GCRTA: Sun 10/11-Thurs 10/29, Red Line btwn @GoingPlacesCLE & Puritas replaced w/66R buses due to construction at Brookpark http://t.co/tcHovBt40Z

 

Well, looks like I'll be driving my friend to the airport then. Thanks KJP for the update.

Happy belated birthday!

 

Greater Cleve RTA ‏@GCRTA  Oct 5

RTA is 40 years old today! Thank you for your patronage. We look forward to serving you for many more years to come.

Happy belated birthday!

 

Greater Cleve RTA ‏@GCRTA  Oct 5

RTA is 40 years old today! Thank you for your patronage. We look forward to serving you for many more years to come.

 

Maybe it's time to consider whether or not a mass transit monopoly is what is best for the county.

^My thoughts go the other way: RTA needs to extend its reach beyond Cuyahoga County into 2 (at least) to 5 neighboring counties to increase both it's funding base (including a larger target for federal capital funding) and (true) regional effectiveness -- at least, that's my understanding... I know there's still lingering unhappiness at the dissolution of services like the well-run Maple Hts bus system that served the Van Aken Rapid terminal, but what are you gonna do?  I'm guessing there are laws prohibiting/restricting private carriers from competing against RTA, but I'm not sure (someone else would know better than I).  Part of the 70s problems that led to the creation of RTA was the lack of overall funding base to effectively run the disparate transit systems in the County.  While Maple Hts apparently was doing OK (I'm assuming), Shaker Hts, while moving a strong and loyal rider base, had serious infrastructure issues and had next to zero funds just to keep their ancient system running (sounds familiar, right?); the SHRT was the 2nd biggest transit system in the county -- our transit system in those days, while much better than most even then, was totally Byzantine and couldn't survive in it's 1960s/early 70s form... And of course, the old CTS, the biggest kid on the county block, was on life support financially; the fare-box funding system clearly wasn't working... So the good of the few, in some cases, may have been sacrificed for the good of the many...

 

... egad, socialism at it worst!!

^My thoughts go the other way: RTA needs to extend its reach beyond Cuyahoga County into 2 (at least) to 5 neighboring counties to increase both it's funding base (including a larger target for federal capital funding) and (true) regional effectiveness -- at least, that's my understanding... I know there's still lingering unhappiness at the dissolution of services like the well-run Maple Hts bus system that served the Van Aken Rapid terminal, but what are you gonna do?  I'm guessing there are laws prohibiting/restricting private carriers from competing against RTA, but I'm not sure (someone else would know better than I).  Part of the 70s problems that led to the creation of RTA was the lack of overall funding base to effectively run the disparate transit systems in the County.  While Maple Hts apparently was doing OK (I'm assuming), Shaker Hts, while moving a strong and loyal rider base, had serious infrastructure issues and had next to zero funds just to keep their ancient system running (sounds familiar, right?); the SHRT was the 2nd biggest transit system in the county -- our transit system in those days, while much better than most even then, was totally Byzantine and couldn't survive in it's 1960s/early 70s form... And of course, the old CTS, the biggest kid on the county block, was on life support financially; the fare-box funding system clearly wasn't working... So the good of the few, in some cases, may have been sacrificed for the good of the many...

 

... egad, socialism at it worst!!

 

I don't think there's laws against it, but competing with the subsidies would be tough.

 

As far as expanding the reach, maybe start out by connecting with the neighbors better.  SR-8 being the classic example.  If I'm Summit County's system I would say NFW.

Joe Calabrese is reaching out to partner with collar counties to provide inter-county public transit. In his words: "the commuting patterns go across counties -- we don't." He says they should, but the collar counties want to run their own transit agencies. They prefer local control. Even if there was interest in partnering in inter-county transit, what's the revenue source to support it? Geauga, Lorain and Medina don't even have a dedicated tax for transit and instead throw a few nickels at transit and/or paratransit to operate a bare-bones service. Lake, Portage and Summit have voter-approved taxes dedicated to transit but that barely runs their existing transit services. Laketran has the most intercounty service followed by Akron Metro RTA, then Stark Area RTA and then Portage Area RTA.

 

Perhaps intercounty services is where we try contracting out to private service providers. At least one bus company has reached out to Lorain County officials to get their support for a regular route service between Lorain County and Cleveland. But that was last winter when I heard about it and nothing has occurred since.

Joe Calabrese is reaching out to partner with collar counties to provide inter-county public transit. In his words: "the commuting patterns go across counties -- we don't." He says they should, but the collar counties want to run their own transit agencies. They prefer local control. Even if there was interest in partnering in inter-county transit, what's the revenue source to support it? Geauga, Lorain and Medina don't even have a dedicated tax for transit and instead throw a few nickels at transit and/or paratransit to operate a bare-bones service. Lake, Portage and Summit have voter-approved taxes dedicated to transit but that barely runs their existing transit services. Laketran has the most intercounty service followed by Akron Metro RTA, then Stark Area RTA and then Portage Area RTA.

 

Perhaps intercounty services is where we try contracting out to private service providers. At least one bus company has reached out to Lorain County officials to get their support for a regular route service between Lorain County and Cleveland. But that was last winter when I heard about it and nothing has occurred since.

 

There'd be little if any support for fully merging Akron Metro with GCRTA.  This would be especially true in northern Summit County, where a lot of people from SSE Cuyahoga moved.  It's not just Maple expatriates that think the merger threw that area under....well, you know.

 

Nevertheless, it is Akron Metro that goes up to the county line at the Rocksino.  GCRTA runs very rarely down to Alexander and goes no closer.  When I leave late for work I regularly see as many as ten people walking from Alexander to the county line at Sagamore and beyond.

 

GCRTA touches Summit County on Broadway/Ravenna at Richmond/Shepard, a much less dense area.

 

I don't think there's laws against it, but competing with the subsidies would be tough.

 

 

I mentioned it because I recall a discussion, a year or so ago, where someone raised the possibility of running shuttle buses between the IX Center and the airport Rapid terminal... IIRC the idea was that it would be run either by a private carrier or the IX Center which, of course, owned by Cleveland.  I also recall Jerry, or someone from/knowledgeable about RTA, saying that, by law, a non-RTA carrier could not provide potentially competing public transit services within RTA's service area which, of course, excludes the commuter carriers from other counties into downtown or services, like the old Kent State bus (now PARTA?) or the Oberlin commuter bus, which connect to the ends of Rapid lines, as these services do not compete with RTA ... I could be wrong, but that's what I recall.

I believe that is correct.

 

BTW, the I-X Center is in the city of Cleveland but it isn't owned by the city. It's a privately owned facility.

 

^Oy, foiled by Wikipedia again... They state the IX is owned by Cleveland but run by a private operator.

^Oy, foiled by Wikipedia again... They state the IX is owned by Cleveland but run by a private operator.

 

Guess what? Wikipedia is correct!

 

Park Corp. bought the building and in 1985 opened it as an exhibition hall called the International Exposition Center — I-X Center for short. It sold the building to the city of Cleveland in 2001 for $30 million and a rent-free lease that runs until 2014, with five-year options that could extend Park Corp.'s ownership until 2039.

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20130908/SUB1/309089978/ray-park-ready-to-extend-lease-with-i-x-center

 

I don't think there's laws against it, but competing with the subsidies would be tough.

 

 

I mentioned it because I recall a discussion, a year or so ago, where someone raised the possibility of running shuttle buses between the IX Center and the airport Rapid terminal... IIRC the idea was that it would be run either by a private carrier or the IX Center which, of course, owned by Cleveland.  I also recall Jerry, or someone from/knowledgeable about RTA, saying that, by law, a non-RTA carrier could not provide potentially competing public transit services within RTA's service area which, of course, excludes the commuter carriers from other counties into downtown or services, like the old Kent State bus (now PARTA?) or the Oberlin commuter bus, which connect to the ends of Rapid lines, as these services do not compete with RTA ... I could be wrong, but that's what I recall.

 

Much depends on the meaning of the word "public", of course.  Mass transit does not necessarily have to be "public transit".  The Google buses in SF come to mind.

 

I don't think there's laws against it, but competing with the subsidies would be tough.

 

 

I mentioned it because I recall a discussion, a year or so ago, where someone raised the possibility of running shuttle buses between the IX Center and the airport Rapid terminal... IIRC the idea was that it would be run either by a private carrier or the IX Center which, of course, owned by Cleveland.  I also recall Jerry, or someone from/knowledgeable about RTA, saying that, by law, a non-RTA carrier could not provide potentially competing public transit services within RTA's service area which, of course, excludes the commuter carriers from other counties into downtown or services, like the old Kent State bus (now PARTA?) or the Oberlin commuter bus, which connect to the ends of Rapid lines, as these services do not compete with RTA ... I could be wrong, but that's what I recall.

 

Much depends on the meaning of the word "public", of course.  Mass transit does not necessarily have to be "public transit".  The Google buses in SF come to mind.

 

The public aspect is key, which is why a private bus company open to the public would be a no-no in RTA's territory.

 

I don't think there's laws against it, but competing with the subsidies would be tough.

 

 

I mentioned it because I recall a discussion, a year or so ago, where someone raised the possibility of running shuttle buses between the IX Center and the airport Rapid terminal... IIRC the idea was that it would be run either by a private carrier or the IX Center which, of course, owned by Cleveland.  I also recall Jerry, or someone from/knowledgeable about RTA, saying that, by law, a non-RTA carrier could not provide potentially competing public transit services within RTA's service area which, of course, excludes the commuter carriers from other counties into downtown or services, like the old Kent State bus (now PARTA?) or the Oberlin commuter bus, which connect to the ends of Rapid lines, as these services do not compete with RTA ... I could be wrong, but that's what I recall.

 

Much depends on the meaning of the word "public", of course.  Mass transit does not necessarily have to be "public transit".  The Google buses in SF come to mind.

 

The public aspect is key, which is why a private bus company open to the public would be a no-no in RTA's territory.

 

There's ways around that, kind of like the "private clubs" in places that still have Prohibition operate. 

 

Though I would expect RTA to attempt to block this.  Monopolies do that.

There's ways around that, kind of like the "private clubs" in places that still have Prohibition operate. 

 

Though I would expect RTA to attempt to block this.  Monopolies do that.

 

I wouldn't expect RTA staff to block it. Their unions are a very different matter, however.

^Come to think of it; didn't a number of Lakewood bars and restaurants pool resources and attempt to run a free circulator shuttle bus along Detroit and Madison aves and into Cleve's Edgewater neighborhood a few years ago?  I don't recall there being any legal impediments to their doing this and it was reported in the PD.  I guess it didn't work out because I haven't heard anymore about it... KJP you should know about this since this is your neck of the woods.

^The West Side Shuttle is still going strong:

 

https://www.facebook.com/Westsideshuffle

^Great... There you go, E Rocc.  Private enterprise at work; no RTA monopoly.

^Come to think of it; didn't a number of Lakewood bars and restaurants pool resources and attempt to run a free circulator shuttle bus along Detroit and Madison aves and into Cleve's Edgewater neighborhood a few years ago?  I don't recall there being any legal impediments to their doing this and it was reported in the PD.  I guess it didn't work out because I haven't heard anymore about it... KJP you should know about this since this is your neck of the woods.

 

I heard about it, but know nothing about it. I wasn't a bar guy even when I was a drinker.

^The West Side Shuttle is still going strong:

 

https://www.facebook.com/Westsideshuffle

 

One of the few times that I actually have ventured out to Lakewood, I tried using the West Side Shuffle, but they didn't come at the scheduled time and never responded to any of my tweets about their location. So, I instead was luckily able to take the #26 back downtown, which fortunately runs 24/7.

^The West Side Shuttle is still going strong:

 

https://www.facebook.com/Westsideshuffle

 

One of the few times that I actually have ventured out to Lakewood, I tried using the West Side Shuffle, but they didn't come at the scheduled time and never responded to any of my tweets about their location. So, I instead was luckily able to take the #26 back downtown, which fortunately runs 24/7.

 

You're welcome.

@GCRTA: Sun 10/11-Thurs 10/29, Red Line btwn @GoingPlacesCLE & Puritas replaced w/66R buses due to construction at Brookpark http://t.co/tcHovBt40Z

 

Well, looks like I'll be driving my friend to the airport then. Thanks KJP for the update.

 

surfohio[/member] The rail segment closure and "bus bridge" around it has been postponed but not yet rescheduled....

 

@GCRTA 7h

Brookpark Station remains open for reg rail service btwn @GoingPlacesCLE & Puritas. Scheduled shutdown has been CANCELED.

 

There's ways around that, kind of like the "private clubs" in places that still have Prohibition operate. 

 

Though I would expect RTA to attempt to block this.  Monopolies do that.

 

I wouldn't expect RTA staff to block it. Their unions are a very different matter, however.

 

University Circle, CWRU, and the Cleveland Clinic all run shuttles in RTA territory. Aren't they all open to the public?

 

does the casino have a shuttle service?

University Circle, CWRU, and the Cleveland Clinic all run shuttles in RTA territory. Aren't they all open to the public?

 

 

Certainly the CircleLink is. Not sure how that works, legally.

 

does the casino have a shuttle service?

 

It did before the walkway over Ontario/Prospect opened.

 

The casino also runs regularly scheduled buses from the suburbs to downtown. They used to be daily and offered multiple daily trips on most routes. But not anymore. I think they get around the legal issues by making the fare part of using the casino -- ie: you pay $15 fare but you get tokens/chips that you can use inside the casino. However, if you don't use the chips/tokens, that's up to you. If you use it to ride from Canton to Cleveland to take the Rapid to the airport and then fly away on vacation, that's not their concern....

 

http://www.lakefrontlines.com/tours/casino-one-day/horseshoe/

University Circle, CWRU, and the Cleveland Clinic all run shuttles in RTA territory. Aren't they all open to the public?

 

 

Certainly the CircleLink is. Not sure how that works, legally.

 

does the casino have a shuttle service?

 

It did before the walkway over Ontario/Prospect opened.

 

The casino also runs regularly scheduled buses from the suburbs to downtown. They used to be daily and offered multiple daily trips on most routes. But not anymore. I think they get around the legal issues by making the fare part of using the casino -- ie: you pay $15 fare but you get tokens/chips that you can use inside the casino. However, if you don't use the chips/tokens, that's up to you. If you use it to ride from Canton to Cleveland to take the Rapid to the airport and then fly away on vacation, that's not their concern....

 

http://www.lakefrontlines.com/tours/casino-one-day/horseshoe/

 

I don't think there are any actual legal restrictions on private companies/groups operating transportation services, public or otherwise, except for the normal operating permits, insurance, drivers, vehicles, etc. that would be necessary.  In fact, RTA has on some occasions promoted the creation of private partnerships to operate a service, for instance when many of the community circulators were eliminated, and as pointed out on this thread there are probably a 1/2 dozen currently operating this way in Cuyahoga County, if not more.

 

The rule everyone seems to be addressing, only goes in the other direction:  RTA can not compete with private charter operators under FTA's "Charter Bus Service Rule."  This prevents RTA from operating a specific shuttle service where it would potentially take away business from a private charter operator - it doesn't apply to regularly schedule service.  For example, the Browns shuttles that RTA used to run no longer happen, even though RTA could provide the service, people used it, and it generally made money.  See rule description here:  http://www.fta.dot.gov/15740.html

 

RTA can also negotiate with all registered charter companies in the region to provide a specific service, but I don't know if they have a current agreement or generally just abide by the restriction with the occasional waiver or exemption applied.

 

Some of the upcoming RNC related transportation activities may require a waiver or agreement if RTA participates outside of normally scheduled service.

^The disturbing thing about the RNC is this talk of closing down the Rapid system and key bus routes, from the public for the exclusive use of RNC members and the media.  This would fly in the face of what public transit is all about and, ironically, serve individuals who are the biggest enemies of cities and public transit.  I haven't heard the latest on this, but I believe it's an idea that's still on the table.  Cleveland pols, and RTA, should seriously resist this.

^ It's a great irony isn't it? That our rail system was undoubtedly a piece of why we won the bid for the GOP convention, yet it's because of Republicans in Columbus that our rail system may cease to exist in a few years...

^The disturbing thing about the RNC is this talk of closing down the Rapid system and key bus routes, from the public for the exclusive use of RNC members and the media.  This would fly in the face of what public transit is all about and, ironically, serve individuals who are the biggest enemies of cities and public transit.  I haven't heard the latest on this, but I believe it's an idea that's still on the table.  Cleveland pols, and RTA, should seriously resist this.

 

I can't imagine this happening, though certainly I can see extra trains being run, for the exclusive use of those with convention credentials, and perhaps one stop even being shut down.

NYC's $29B 5-yr transit improvements would = $4B-$5B for Greater Cleveland-Akron-Lorain-Mentor transit improvements/expansion based on population & usage http://t.co/itbrCrFe4E

^The disturbing thing about the RNC is this talk of closing down the Rapid system and key bus routes, from the public for the exclusive use of RNC members and the media.  This would fly in the face of what public transit is all about and, ironically, serve individuals who are the biggest enemies of cities and public transit.  I haven't heard the latest on this, but I believe it's an idea that's still on the table.  Cleveland pols, and RTA, should seriously resist this.

 

I can't imagine this happening, though certainly I can see extra trains being run, for the exclusive use of those with convention credentials, and perhaps one stop even being shut down.

 

Unfortunately that one stop would likely be Tower City given that the convention will be HQ'd at The Q.... and if TC is closed, you might as well close the entire rail system to the public because the Rapid would suddenly become useless to the overwhelming bulk of its riders.  Run extra RNC-only trains so that, egad, RNC'ers wouldn't have to share a seat or a train car with the proletariat.  But don't close the rail lines to regular riders because closing the Rapid to the public for 4 days would be unconscionable and should not be tolerated.  That it's even up for discussion is annoying enough.

^The disturbing thing about the RNC is this talk of closing down the Rapid system and key bus routes, from the public for the exclusive use of RNC members and the media.  This would fly in the face of what public transit is all about and, ironically, serve individuals who are the biggest enemies of cities and public transit.  I haven't heard the latest on this, but I believe it's an idea that's still on the table.  Cleveland pols, and RTA, should seriously resist this.

 

I can't imagine this happening, though certainly I can see extra trains being run, for the exclusive use of those with convention credentials, and perhaps one stop even being shut down.

 

Unfortunately that one stop would likely be Tower City given that the convention will be HQ'd at The Q.... and if TC is closed, you might as well close the entire rail system to the public because the Rapid would suddenly become useless to the overwhelming bulk of its riders.  Run extra RNC-only trains so that, egad, RNC'ers wouldn't have to share a seat or a train car with the proletariat.  But don't close the rail lines to regular riders because closing the Rapid to the public for 4 days would be unconscionable and should not be tolerated.  That it's even up for discussion is annoying enough.

 

I'm talking one west side station other than the airport, not TC.  I agree that would be a fiasco.  As would closing down the Rapid.

 

But there's definitely security concerns. I guarantee that "activists" (and possibly worse) would target delegates if they were known to be riding the general trains.  Some anti-Republicans might consider that acceptable or even desirable, but it would reflect negatively on the city.

I'm talking one west side station other than the airport, not TC.  I agree that would be a fiasco.  As would closing down the Rapid.

 

 

Unfortunately nothing can stop that now. At the rate we're losing light-rail cars and at the time it takes to spec-order-setup-build-test-deliver new railcars, there won't be enough Breda cars to operate a full schedule on both the Blue and Green lines within five years. Even if GCRTA raised its fares 50 cents per ride for 20 years to finance its share of the cost, it can't get the federal funds for rail cars. Federal funding for state of good repair costs (like new railcars) come from federal formula funds, and its share of these funds is shrinking as region's population stagnates (while others grow), the transit system shrinks and ridership shrinks. If a transit agency has a big repair project, it can receive four years of its federal formula funds in one year. But GCRTA has already tapped the next four years of federal formula funds for other capital projects.

 

So we're not going to have time to replace the light-rail fleet which originally was 48 cars but is now down to half that. And we're losing another rail car every 2-3 months as each car is taken out to Brookpark shops to be cannibalized for parts that are no longer made to keep the rest of the fleet running. Last summer, there were a half dozen cars at Brookpark (both heavy rail and light-rail). There's more than that now, so if you ride by there in the coming days, take a picture and share it so see we can see the transfer of the fleet from the active yards at East 55th to the scrap yard at Brookpark. When there's fewer than about 18 light rail cars left in operation, that's when one of the light rail lines gets shut down. When there's fewer than 10 cars left, then the entire light-rail system is shut down. And if no funding can be found within 10-15 years, then the heavy rail Red Line starts shutting down too.

 

A half-cent sales tax increase for transit would fix this and allow for some expansion and system restructuring to retain the existing ridership and preserve access to jobs that are sprawling farther into the suburbs and into adjoining counties. That would require getting the state to raise its sales tax lid on counties -- or include service-related activities/transactions as "sales" that can be taxed.

How do cities such as New Orleans maintain their older rail equipment?  I understand that parts for these Breda cars are no longer manufactured, but is there no alternative other than cannibalizing our existing cars?  Is there no way to source parts from other cities/transit agencies with Breda's?  Can whichever parts are failing be remanufactured/rebuilt?

I'm talking one west side station other than the airport, not TC.  I agree that would be a fiasco.  As would closing down the Rapid.

 

 

Unfortunately nothing can stop that now. At the rate we're losing light-rail cars and at the time it takes to spec-order-setup-build-test-deliver new railcars, there won't be enough Breda cars to operate a full schedule on both the Blue and Green lines within five years. Even if GCRTA raised its fares 50 cents per ride for 20 years to finance its share of the cost, it can't get the federal funds for rail cars. Federal funding for state of good repair costs (like new railcars) come from federal formula funds, and its share of these funds is shrinking as region's population stagnates (while others grow), the transit system shrinks and ridership shrinks. If a transit agency has a big repair project, it can receive four years of its federal formula funds in one year. But GCRTA has already tapped the next four years of federal formula funds for other capital projects.

 

So we're not going to have time to replace the light-rail fleet which originally was 48 cars but is now down to half that. And we're losing another rail car every 2-3 months as each car is taken out to Brookpark shops to be cannibalized for parts that are no longer made to keep the rest of the fleet running. Last summer, there were a half dozen cars at Brookpark (both heavy rail and light-rail). There's more than that now, so if you ride by there in the coming days, take a picture and share it so see we can see the transfer of the fleet from the active yards at East 55th to the scrap yard at Brookpark. When there's fewer than about 18 light rail cars left in operation, that's when one of the light rail lines gets shut down. When there's fewer than 10 cars left, then the entire light-rail system is shut down. And if no funding can be found within 10-15 years, then the heavy rail Red Line starts shutting down too.

 

A half-cent sales tax increase for transit would fix this and allow for some expansion and system restructuring to retain the existing ridership and preserve access to jobs that are sprawling farther into the suburbs and into adjoining counties. That would require getting the state to raise its sales tax lid on counties -- or include service-related activities/transactions as "sales" that can be taxed.

 

Whoops, I meant during the convention.

How do cities such as New Orleans maintain their older rail equipment?  I understand that parts for these Breda cars are no longer manufactured, but is there no alternative other than cannibalizing our existing cars?  Is there no way to source parts from other cities/transit agencies with Breda's?  Can whichever parts are failing be remanufactured/rebuilt?

 

Are there any old PCCs or Kuhlman 1200s laying around that we could use to replace the Bredas?

How do cities such as New Orleans maintain their older rail equipment?  I understand that parts for these Breda cars are no longer manufactured, but is there no alternative other than cannibalizing our existing cars?  Is there no way to source parts from other cities/transit agencies with Breda's?  Can whichever parts are failing be remanufactured/rebuilt?

 

GCRTA is making some of its own parts in a section of the East 55th Central Rail Facility. They have a machine shop on the north side of the facility where they make parts. But they can't make everything, including the carbody shells which aren't stainless steel like the Red Line cars. Stainless steel lasts a lot longer than the regular steel used in the Bredas. The Bredas have been a constant source of trouble. Even my cousin hates these cars and he was responsible for ordering them when he worked at GCRTA 40 years ago. San Francisco acquired Breda light-rail cars in 1996 and they're already replacing them. Why? Because they're junk. And to add insult to injury, San Francisco hates Breda so much they barred Breda from competing for the replacement order:

http://sf.streetsblog.org/2013/09/16/munis-next-train-fleet-breda-disqualified-from-another-contract/

How do cities such as New Orleans maintain their older rail equipment?  I understand that parts for these Breda cars are no longer manufactured, but is there no alternative other than cannibalizing our existing cars?  Is there no way to source parts from other cities/transit agencies with Breda's?  Can whichever parts are failing be remanufactured/rebuilt?

 

GCRTA is making some of its own parts in a section of the East 55th Central Rail Facility. They have a machine shop on the north side of the facility where they make parts. But they can't make everything, including the carbody shells which aren't stainless steel like the Red Line cars. Stainless steel lasts a lot longer than the regular steel used in the Bredas. The Bredas have been a constant source of trouble. Even my cousin hates these cars and he was responsible for ordering them when he worked at GCRTA 40 years ago. San Francisco acquired Breda light-rail cars in 1996 and they're already replacing them. Why? Because they're junk. And to add insult to injury, San Francisco hates Breda so much they barred Breda from competing for the replacement order:

http://sf.streetsblog.org/2013/09/16/munis-next-train-fleet-breda-disqualified-from-another-contract/

 

I wonder if they could get ahold of some of the stamping equipment Chrysler and Ford obsoleted out when those plants closed?  The dies could be pricey....unless it was short run and they used kirksite.

 

Speaking of zinc, if they hot dip galvanized the steel, even assembled, it would last better.

^^Well, at least we've squeezed about 15 more years out of our Bredas than SF.  Obviously there are serious issues with the car construction quality of this company and I'd hope RTA, like SF Muni, will bar them from future bids.  I thought KJP mentioned that RTA might be able to joint-order some LRT's with another transit agency to save some $$.

^^Well, at least we've squeezed about 15 more years out of our Bredas than SF.  Obviously there are serious issues with the car construction quality of this company and I'd hope RTA, like SF Muni, will bar them from future bids.  I thought KJP mentioned that RTA might be able to joint-order some LRT's with another transit agency to save some $$.

 

GCRTA could do that -- IF they had money to place an order.

All Aboard Ohio ‏@AllAboardOhio  4s5 seconds ago

Buses replace @GCRTA trains-

Oct 19-Nov 6: Puritas-Airport;

Oct 24-25: Blue/Green all;

Nov 8-21: Triskett-West Blvd;

http://www.riderta.com/service-alerts

 

The following is from a GCRTA e-mail....

 

Oct. 19-Nov. 6: Buses replace Red Line trains, Puritas to Airport

 

From Oct. 19-Nov. 6, buses will replace Red Line trains between the Puritas and Airport stations. This will allow RTA to continue construction on a new Brookpark Rapid Station. Red Line trains will operate as far west as the Puritas Station, where customers can board a 66R bus to reach the Brookpark and Airport stations. Sports fans who normally park at Brookpark should use parking lots at the Puritas, West Park or Triskett stations, if they are attending the Oct. 30 Cavs home opener or the Nov. 1 Browns game.

 

Brookpark Station reconstruction means that buses will replace trains between Puritas and Airport from Oct. 19 - Nov. 6

 

 

Oct. 24-25: Buses replace trains on Blue, Green, and Waterfront lines

 

RTA's hefty investment in rail infrastructure continues with track upgrades and construction work at the new Lee-Van Aken Station. On Friday-Saturday, Oct. 24-25, buses will replace all light-rail trains on the Blue Line, Green Line and Waterfront Line. Customers should wait for buses at the specially marked 67R bus stop signs. The stop for the Tower City Station is on Public Square, in front of the Horseshoe Casino.

 

Ongoing track maintenance means that buses will replace light rail on Oct. 24-25

 

 

Nov. 8-21: Bus bridge maintains West Side service for rail customers

 

A bus bridge between the Triskett and West Blvd. Rapid stations will help RTA maintain Red Line rail service while extensive track work is being done. The 66R buses will also serve customers who park at the West 117th Street Rapid Station. RTA plans to have buses waiting for customers when the train arrives. Please allow an extra 30 minutes for your commute.

Track upgrades replacing all LRT Oct. 24-25?  What's that?  RTA needs to be more specific than that.

Can  I ask you how the heavy rail investment RTA is conducting plays into the looming issues of not having enough train cars? it's a positive sign to invest in new track and build new stations but without some influx of funds soon what will it be for?