^instead of using magnetic strip or other ticket, you basically get a ticket receipt and only have to show it when asked. it is very popular in europe, more of an honor system, but there are many more enforcement officers that ask to see your 'proof of payment'. 

^

Urbanlife seems to have done a good job of explaining how the system works.  The operational advantage to proof of payment is that it enables a train or bus (in the case of the Euclid Corridor) to pull into a station and open all doors to let passengers on as they have already paid via a ticket kiosk.  As Urbanlife said, there are officers that randomly board the trains and ask those aboard to see their ticket, which has an expiration time printed on it.  I know on the Minneapolis system if you get caught without a valid ticket they write you a citation for $180, which hypothetically offsets the loss that may be incurred from people using the trains without paying (those that aren't caught at least).

^instead of using magnetic strip or other ticket, you basically get a ticket receipt and only have to show it when asked. it is very popular in europe, more of an honor system, but there are many more enforcement officers that ask to see your 'proof of payment'. 

 

Ok. Thanks.  That's the first time I've heard it referred to in this way.  Guess I learned something new! 

 

I was asked to show my receipt all the time when I used the Metro in Milan, for example.  I liked the concept because boarding and using the system was a breeze. 

 

I talked to someone at RTA about this.  The implementation of proof of payment is getting bogged down in bureacratic discussion.  For example, lthere is concern about people who have no address how, so how do you follow up with a fine if they are caught without a ticket?    I don't recall the other nonsense that this person mentioned is going on in the internal discussions. 

 

I look at it this way.  You are going to have a few people get away with not paying now and then, but at the same time, they'll have reduced costs as far as less ticket agents (though that will be offset, at least partially, by having ticket inspectors).  The fines will make up the rest.  I would definitely expect ridership to improve because it will make using the system easier and make the service faster. 

 

For example, having a train load of people on their way to a ball game frustrated as hell because RTA had a ticket agent at Brookpark (and thus easy, quick boarding) but did not have one at Puritas where a bunch more people wanted to go to the game.  Then the trains start backing up because boarding was excruciatingly slow doesn't do much for RTA's image.  I experienced this a couple of years ago.  Some passenger said "never again".  Duh.  Indians game today, put ticket agents at all the stations, or better yet, just switch to "proof of payment" and get it over with! 

 

The same goes for buses like the #6:  combine no light timing on Euclid to speak of with a heavily used, pay as you board bus, you get slow service with buses bunching up, etc.  Thank goodness the Euclid Corridor is on its way...

 

Anyway, back to proof of payment... the person at RTA with whom I spoke was frustrated by the bureaucratic discussion I referred to. 

^the worrying about a lack of address for potential scofflaws sounds stupid and counterproductive.  If that's the kind of piddling crap RTA's worried about, you can forget ever seeing POP in this town.  Just another reason why progress so often alludes here in C-town.

^the worrying about a lack of address for potential scofflaws sounds stupid and counterproductive.  If that's the kind of piddling crap RTA's worried about, you can forget ever seeing POP in this town.  Just another reason why progress so often alludes here in C-town.

 

It was one of several things mentioned to me, but I cannot recall the others.  However, I remember my reaction at the time which was that none of the things mentioned made much sense at all.

Hopefully it was just a side issue.  Until POP becomes a reality, I wish RTA would just go-ahead and staff the friggin' Red Line stops (absent a few really light ones, ie E. 34, E. 79) from dawn till dusk, 7 days a week.  I mean, is it really going to kill them salarywise, and if so, hire part-timers to do so (as in: no health bennie packages; a major cost) if RTA's so hard up.  I really wish someone could do a cost analysis to show how much RTA would actually lose if they adopted such a plan... I bet I could re-route and terminate a bunch of useless gas-guzzling bus runs that could more than make up the difference.  The goofy slow on-board paying just shows RTA doesn't treat its rail service as the jewel operation most Cleveland-sized cities would love to have.  It's even more of an embarassment on the Airport Line to see luggage toting visitors to our town watch as drivers sit and tediously count coins (or watch them feed passes-- I notice our card readers are the slowest of any transit system I've seen) while the train isn't moving -- I've seen at stations where there's a flash crowd, it take over 10 minutes to get ever passenger on, paid and accounted for -- and don't let some family bring a bunch of kids, who half the drivers don't even know the proper fare scale and/or family 'plan' to account for them!

 

And may, just maybe, passenger service would actually increase, if riders knew the Rapid really was rapid and not some grade-separated, slow Toonerville Trolley.

Next Train signs have started popping up in some of the stations, although they don't appear to work correctly yet. 

 

They are wireless and are supposed to provied real time arrival information.  The one in towercity showed the next scheduled arrival, but when the train was late it didn't update.  The one in Ohio City wasn't yet working.

 

My only complaint after seeing 2 of the signs is that they aren't in obvious locations.  The ones in Tower City are in the middle of the platforms (where they make some sense), but i'd also like to see them at the top of the escalator so you knew if you had to hurry - especially with 15 minute headways.  Ditto for OC station - on the platform facing away from stairs, so you can't tell from the top level what the status is.

 

My only complaint after seeing 2 of the signs is that they aren't in obvious locations.  The ones in Tower City are in the middle of the platforms (where they make some sense), but i'd also like to see them at the top of the escalator so you knew if you had to hurry - especially with 15 minute headways.  Ditto for OC station - on the platform facing away from stairs, so you can't tell from the top level what the status is.

 

This question came up a few months ago on the Washington Metro.  There are real-time arrival signs on all the platforms that give information for the next three trains in each direction:  line, length of train (# of cars), destination, and minutes until arrival.  Someone asked why there aren't signs like these at street level, for the same reason (and especially late at night, when headways are only 20 minutes).  The response from Metro was that such an installation at street level would lead to more people running up and down escalators and through stations in a mad rush to catch a train, thus increasing the chance that other people get hurt.

^Fair enough...

 

At some RTA stations (W. 98th is one example) there are enclosed waiting areas on street level with tickers that tell when the next trains are coming, as well as the next buses that serve this transfer point.  I thought that was a nice touch.  In my experience, RTA trains never suffer any severe delays.  I would be happy if they just posted the current time and the next scheduled trains in either direction.  The Tower City tickers had this information, but the only info I ever saw on the OC ticker was the current time.  Now, that's gone too!

That is a nice touch, to have bus arrival information!  Does RTA have bus maps and schedules available at rail stations too?

 

One thing I forgot to mention is that the arrival signs on the Washington Metro are actually tied into the train signaling system, ensuring accuracy.  You'd be lucky to have RTA install something similar on the Rapid.  In my experience, the GPS-based systems just don't work as well.

^Well, that would be ideal... 

 

I'd also like to get the feeling that there's someone behind the visible data who's actually making sure that what's being posted is accurate and up-to-date.  Thus, if they are just feeding the schedule through the ticker and it's accurate, fine, but if things get messed up, they should be able to feed a line or two about service delays.  They put some of these things up in stations years ago that have yet to produce a line of valuable information to date (I'm talking about University Circle...welcome to our cultural mecca!), what's the holdup?

 

Bottom line, though (and this was one of my biggest gripes in NYC as well), is that if you have a booth attendant, they should know what's going on.  Whether that means schedule information or rules about when you can/cannot bring your bike on the train, RTA could definitely do with a staff retreat or some sort of clinic to retrain some of its people!

Would it be useful to be able to get bus and train arrival times on a cell phone or PDA?  Then one could check it anytime on their way to the station.

clvlndr: 

 

the particular day I was going to the Indians game with family, I think the only station that wasn't staffed on the west side was Puritas (though maybe W. 65th too).  What the heck difference would one more ticket agent have made?  The trains were running packed. 

 

clvlndr: 

the particular day I was going to the Indians game with family, I think the only station that wasn't staffed on the west side was Puritas (though maybe W. 65th too).  What the heck difference would one more ticket agent have made?  The trains were running packed. 

 

for big events, it might not make a huge difference, however the other morning around rush hour puritas and one other station were not staffed (intentionally, i don't know - it could be a call in sick or something).  There were a lot of people that got on at these 2 stops and it created 2 problems:

 

1. the train fell behind schedule because 16 people were waiting to put their ticket through the machine at the front.  if you are relying on the train running on time, having these sorts of slow downs as ridership grows is unacceptable. 

 

2. the 2d car of the train had plenty of seats available, but everyone was packed in the front car.  Some of the standees could have probably walked between cars, or walked on the platform at the next stop or something, but it still should be like this. 

 

Open all the doors for all the cars. 

^^^Yikes.  I can't believe RTA could be so bush league as to treat the Rapid as a red-headed stepchild.  (no offense toward anyone who might actually be a red-headed stepchild)

 

The situation described above is completely unacceptable.  Get turnstiles on the Red Line, and proof of payment on the Blue and Green.  All stations should have farecard vending machines.    Considering RTA already uses farecards for buses, this shouldn't be a stretch.

 

The whole system (bus and rail) would be a lot more user friendly if there were actually some consistency once in a while.  When they keep changing things (staffed/unstaffed, pay boarding/pay leaving, routes, method of payment), it just discourages potential riders.

Haha ... Not all of it, but certainly some of the stops. Cleveland's transit-oriented art is almost nonexistent, to date; a lot of the stops are completely void of any sense of connection to the surrounding neighborhood's offerings, history, etc. Meanwhile, I couldn't think of a lot of public art in NYC's system, and both Chicago and London's visual installments seemed largely tied to commercial advertising. So while the Metro has a long way to go, I do think it's done better than some of its counterparts.

 

not sure i agree 8shades. sure there could be more in outlying stations, but there is public art in most of the nyc subway stations.

 

Nice find, KJP. I hope they use that $80,000 public art allocation well. I know it's unfair to bring up DC's Metro (even though everyone in here does), but I've always been very impressed with their use of public art installations to really capture the histories, cultures and retail opportunities of some of the more prominent stops.

 

much of the public art in the nyc stations also reflects the neighborhood or history.

here's an example i shot from my harlem thread. it's as local & historic as it gets  :clap: :

 

On an only semi-related note, I had heard some talk back in the day about opening up more opportunities for graffiti artists along the RTA line. In the same discussion, I heard that if existing graffiti/murals (not necessarily the taggers but the amazing and enormous graffiti art) were leveraged down the entire city-based corridor, it would be the longest graffiti installation in the country. Personally, I think that would be pretty cool.

 

great idea & i too wish they would do it. that would be real 'wild style' or 'bomb the system' of rta -- hehe! not to mention i truly think it be an inexpensive, inclusive and fun way to make the grubby red line ride look a lot better in places.

 

although it did not have mta's approval (yeah right - lol!) something like that already exists in brooklyn all along the long culvert sections of the q/b lines all the way to coney island. needless to say this culvert section of the nyc system reminds one the most of the red line rapid.

here's an example i took:

 

I love the mosaics in the NYC subway.  They look even better since they started to clean up the stations a few years ago!

Cleveland's version of what's happening nationally.... (see below)

 

http://www.riderta.com/nu_newsroom_releases.asp?listingid=914

 

RTA News

 

July 27, 2006

 

http://www.riderta.com/nu_newsroom_releases.asp?listingid=914

 

RTA quarterly report card shows increase in ridership

 

CLEVELAND – The Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority’s (RTA) quarterly report card shows that more riders are choosing RTA for their safe and reliable services. The report card compares the first six months of 2006 with the first six months of 2005.

 

+ Ridership increased by 1.3 percent over last year.

+ Traffic safety – the number of preventable collisions per 100,000    vehicle miles -- also improved by 18.8 percent. The figure dropped from .96 in 2005 to .78 in 2006.

+ On-time performance improved 6.5 percent. RTA buses and trains were on time 82 percent of the time in 2006, compared to 77 percent in 2005.

 

“We are delighted that more and more riders are benefiting from RTA. Everyone here at RTA is working hard to make service exceptional for our riders and our numbers show a significant success. We will continue to improve and provide an even better experience for our riders,” says Joe Calabrese, RTA CEO and General Manager.

 

The report card also shows decreases in four other areas – customer satisfaction, farebox revenue, reliability and employee attendance.

 

All quarterly report cards are posted here... http://www.riderta.com/nu_newsroom_reportcard.asp

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

http://www.riderta.com/nu_newsroom_releases.asp?listingid=924

 

RTA News

 

Aug. 15, 2006

 

Public Transportation Ridership Up Significantly During 1st Quarter 2006

4.25% Increase; Nearly 2.5 Billion Trips on Transit Nationwide

 

Public transportation ridership in the United States grew by 4.25% in the first quarter of 2006, compared to the same period in 2005, according to a report released by the American Public Transportation Association (APTA) today.

 

"This significant rise in transit ridership shows that more and more Americans are choosing the affordability and convenience of public transportation," said APTA President William W. Millar. "The high price of gas, coupled with expanded transit service, has made public transportation attractive to a growing number of Americans in small and large communities across the country."

 

The report showed nearly 2.5 billion trips taken on public transportation in the first quarter of 2006 and all modes of public transportation showed ridership increases.

 

Light rail (modern streetcars, trolleys, and heritage trolleys) had the highest percentage of increase among all modes, with an 11.2% increase in the 2006 first quarter. Some of the highest areas reporting the highest increases in light rail ridership had opened new services over the past year. The light rail systems in the following areas showed double digit increases: San Jose (27.3%); Minneapolis (26.0%); Philadelphia (18.0%); San Diego (17.3%); Buffalo (16.7%); Sacramento (14.9%); Los Angeles (13.4%); New Jersey (12.7%); and Memphis (10.4%).

 

Ridership on buses posted the second largest increase at 4.5% nationwide. The report breaks down bus agencies into four categories based on population and bus ridership in each of these categories shows bus ridership increases. Bus ridership in a population group of more than 2 million showed a 4.0% increase. In the second category of 500,000 to 1,999,999, bus ridership climbed by 4.2%. In areas with a population range of 100,000 to 499,999, the bus ridership increased by 6.8% and in the smallest areas with a population below 100,000, the ridership showed the largest increase at 7%.

 

The largest bus agencies showing double digit increases were located in the following cities: Detroit (18.7%); San Antonio (14.9%); Dallas (13.8%); Houston (10.8%); and Seattle (10.1%).

 

Commuter rail showed the third highest national ridership increase for the 2006 first quarter with an increase of 3.4%. The top five commuter rail systems with the highest ridership increases for 2005 were located in: Oceanside, CA (13.2%); Dallas (10.9%); Chesterton, IN (10.2%); Philadelphia (8.2%); and New Haven (7.9%).

 

Demand response (paratransit) increased by 3.7%, followed closely by heavy rail (subway) which increased by 3.2%. The areas with largest heavy rail ridership increases were: Los Angeles (16.4%); New York area services - Staten Island (13.7%) and the PATH system (11.9%); Chicago (6.6%); Washington, D.C. (6.1%); Miami (4.8%); and San Francisco (4.5%).

 

Trolleybus ridership increased by 2.1% and all other modes increased by 2.9% in the 2006 first quarter.

 

To see the complete report, go to http://www.apta.com/research/stats/ridership/

Hmm...ridership is up, but farebox revenue is down?

I love the mosaics in the NYC subway.  They look even better since they started to clean up the stations a few years ago!

 

Yeah, I think a lot of people take these for granted- they are really quite amazing when clean.

 

I also dig the the little Tom Otterness figures (similar to the ones in the CPL reading garden in Cleveland) scattered around the 14th Street ACE station.

 

The station itself is pretty grim, but I actually like the little airplanes on the walls of the Airport station of the Red Line.  Then, on the journey east, somewhere around West 117/Madison I think, there is (or was-can't recall if painted over) some great graffitti on the south side of the ROW that looks a lot like R. Crumb's Mr. Snoid.

July Ridership Numbers

---------------------

Overall:

July 2006 was down 1.5% from July 2005 (4,258,100 vs 4,324,700)

YTD 2006 up 1% (33,183,800 vs 32,869,400)

 

Bus:

July 2006 down 2.7% from July 2005 (3,502,400 vs 3,599,700)

YTD 2006 up .8%

 

Rail:

July 2006 up 4.6% from July 2005 (714,800 vs 683,500)

YTD 2006 up 2% (4,734,800 vs 4,641,500)

 

Trolley:

31,442 rides in July

 

Bikes:

July 2006 - 3,793 (10% increase over Jul 2005)

YTD 2006 - 16,700

 

 

Other News

-----------

Trolleys are now operating M-F, 7am - 11pm.

 

 

 

 

Other News

-----------

Trolleys are now operating M-F, 7am - 11pm.

 

I think those are just the E-Line "trolleys" though. Still it's good to see.

 

Note that rail ridership continues to pace the growth of transit usage in Greater Cleveland. One other ridership tidbit -- the number of people putting bikes on transit broke another record in July. According to ClevelandBikes:

 

"RTA data identify over 8,000 bike trips were taken on RTA during spring and summer months (May-July), with more than 3,400 total bike trips in July representing a record."

 

 

 

^yeah, I'm noticing more and more bikes. Its good to see that.

yea i have been seeing people on their bikes a whole lot more from even last summer

I'm wondering about the validity of RTA's stats. I use the Rapid semi-frequently, and I must say that at least 25% of the time, I haven't had to swipe my card. This has happened to the bus with some degree of frequency.

 

For example, I went to City Xpressionz in Ohio City yesterday and got an all-day pass, which counted on my first ride, of course. When I came home, I went to the Ohio City station and the ticket lady was talking to some woman and I couldn't get in to the scanner, so she just told me to go on. I've seen this happen on the bus, too.

 

Obviously, this is just my experience, but I'd be interested to know if the riders not being counted would alter the stats in any way.

oh thats so common, for a whole semester last year my student pass never worked in the machine.  it always said "denied" and then theyd say "go ahead, it must be acting up"

^if they are actually doing their job, they should still manually count you as you board.  i have seen it both ways though.

 

if there is a line of people with monthly/all day passes, the driver will wave them on and then manually enter how many people got on.  many times though, i don't see (or hear) any inputs...

yea that would make sense, theres usually a pause and then they say its ok and i can board

Saw this in the PD today in their story about how poor Cleveland and Cincy are (don't worry, Cincy is still not as poor as us, gotta make sure that's clear!!!) http://www.cleveland.com/poverty/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/1157272479255571.xml&coll=2&thispage=2

 

"Economists and other experts have been telling us for years what's wrong with Cleveland.

 

Deteriorating schools top the list. A loss of manufacturing jobs, a rise in single-parent families and a public transportation system that doesn't go where the jobs are contribute, too." -- Later in the article, the writer says we need to get people to the jobs in the suburbs.

 

This is what confuses me. In Regina Brett's poverty column, she said to put Section 8 in cities like Hudson and Chagrin Falls so people can be "near the jobs." But that's only relatively speaking, isn't it? If you don't have a car, what's the difference between four miles and 30 miles? In the suburbs, there is no place "where the jobs are." My little sister lives at home with my parents in Hudson, but used to drive to Aurora to go to work. My dad works in an office in North Akron. My mom bops between downtown Akron and Kent State. That's at least seven miles between origination and destination. This is how the suburbs work.

 

What I don't understand is how is ANY public transportation system supposed to ferry people everywhere? Someone please explain this to me if I'm missing something. How do you create a transportation system that can handle this sort of diversity? It'd be like operating a taxi service.

 

This stuff is irritating to me. I'm not an expert on urban planning. I'm basically an average Joe who likes living in cities, so I look at things from a common-sense point of view. These people keep phrasing this problem like "Well, SOMEBODY'S gotta take responsibility. Beachwood, it's your turn. Take some of these people." Wouldn't the easiest way (relatively speaking, of course) to fix this be to tie jobs to our existing transportation system? If more people move to areas that are well-served by transit, then all of the sudden there will be new service jobs and rather than getting on a bus and making 200 transfers, a worker could perhaps jump on the Rapid and be to work in 30 minutes. I already said this in the poverty thread, but to me this sounds like people want us to reinvent the wheel here when we don't need to.

This is not just a problem of transportation, but of land use as well, which isolates the urban poor from suburban jobs. Transportation and land use are inextricably linked, and different types of transportation beget different types of land use. Yet, they are not automatic linkages -- if community land use policies (zoning, planning, etc) aren't supportive of transportation investments, then the synergies between them won't happen. Bus services into the suburbs, even where the bus services are frequent, often aren't supported with such policies. Instead, communities continue to promote auto-dependent land use patterns (subdivided land uses, building setbacks, large/free parking lots separating transit stops from buildings, cul de sacs, etc) at the exclusion of those which would support transit usage.

 

Too often, those who sit on municipal planning commission boards have never even taken an urban planning class, let alone graduated with a degree in the field. Or, those that have, still don't understand the relationships and synergies between various modes of transportation and land uses. I submit that urban planning is at least as complicated as human medicine. The difference between a city and a human body is that each of the cells in a human body don't have minds of their own. Thus, in my opinion, urban studies don't go far enough in their depth of coverage -- there needs to be a large human psychological component to it to understand how different people relate to their various surroundings. But I digress -- a bit.

 

I'll close with three statistics, all from the U.S. Census:

 

+ Nationally, there is a huge spatial mismatch between jobs and job-seekers. While 58 percent of those on public assistance live in the cities, 70 percent of new jobs are in the suburbs. This is likely even more pronounced in Greater Cleveland, given our chronic poverty rankings.

 

+ Nationally, 43 percent of those on public assistance do not own a car. In some Cleveland neighborhoods, up to 70 percent of households do not own a car.

 

+ Only between 8-15 percent of available jobs in the Cleveland-Lorain-Akron MSA are accessible by public transportation in less than 40 minutes.

 

Keep that data in mind when you visit the Cleveland-Lorain commuter rail thread, and you'll get an idea why I'm pushing that introductory project.

who is going to take some photos of this?  RTA seems to be doing much better on some operations improvements.  now, if they could tackle some big picture thinking and TOD ...

 

i've always thought RTA should be leveraging OneCommunity much more - for interactive kiosks w/ trip planner access, real time arrival information, secuirty cameras, wifi, etc.

 

any idea what kind of bus this is?

 

Sept. 12, 2006

 

OneCommunity and RTA demonstrate new Internet-Enabled transit bus

 

What:

 

Demonstration of next generation RTA bus that will enable passengers to access the Internet via the wireless technologies. Demonstration is part of wireless applications program hosted by Case Western Reserve University and OneCommunity.

 

Why:

 

Wireless Internet access on RTA vehicles will significantly increase the attraction of public transit.

 

Visual:

 

Passengers riding on Internet-enabled bus surfing the Internet and checking their e-mails via hand-held and lap-top computers.

 

Who:   

 

RTA General Manager Joseph Calabrese will discuss the authority’s interest in offering wireless Internet access to bus and train patrons by using the community’s new wireless mesh network and other networking technology.

 

When: 

 

Wednesday, Sept. 13. Press availability from 12:15-12:30 p.m., followed by demonstration.

 

Where:

 

Bus will be parked outside Peter B. Lewis Building, on CWRU campus at the intersection of Ford Drive and Bellflower Road.   

a few ideas for RTA (in case someone is reading). 

 

We need to brand the existing RTA service in cleveland better (independent of service expansion, etc.)

 

Bus shelters with consistent message/experience (at least in the CBD):

 

 

 

 

 

Signage, even basic signage explaining service (again, at least in the CBD):

 

Urbanlife...couldn't agree with you more!  I posted a similar response to you in the other thread........the main problem I see happening here in Cleveland that you don't see as much of in DT Chicago is people smashing, detroying, and vandalizing stuff.  Chicago is much bigger, yet to me seems much cleaner and well kept!  I guess it is the amount of DT residents and retail that make the big difference.  I DO hope that these things will happen here though. 

On top of some of these things....I would like to see the bus stops face the street so you can actually SEE the bus coming.  Not sure why some of them face away?  While we are at it...why not do a WAY beter job of pimping the RED LINE at the airport?  When I was coming back from NYC the other day, I must have told at least 10 people not to take the cab DT, but rather take the train..WAY cheaper!  The respones:  I didn't realize there WAS a train here!  WHY?...because the signage SUCKS!Every sign that mentions ground transportation should also mention TRAINS TO CITY....some people may not know what rapid transit means.  But don't get me started about how much I think I could improve the trains here in the city.....

Funny story, my friends friend was visiting here from Charlotte NC this past weekend....and who did he bring with him..his girlfriend..the daughter of Mr Tober....who happens to now run the transit system down there.  MAN I wish he would have been able to do what he wanted to here (and what he IS doing down there).... :oops:

Urbanlife...couldn't agree with you more!   I posted a similar response to you in the other thread........the main problem I see happening here in Cleveland that you don't see as much of in DT Chicago is people smashing, detroying, and vandalizing stuff.  Chicago is much bigger, yet to me seems much cleaner and well kept!   I guess it is the amount of DT residents and retail that make the big difference.  I DO hope that these things will happen here though. 

On top of some of these things....I would like to see the bus stops face the street so you can actually SEE the bus coming.  Not sure why some of them face away?  While we are at it...why not do a WAY beter job of pimping the RED LINE at the airport?  When I was coming back from NYC the other day, I must have told at least 10 people not to take the cab DT, but rather take the train..WAY cheaper!  The respones:  I didn't realize there WAS a train here!   WHY?...because the signage SUCKS!Every sign that mentions ground transportation should also mention TRAINS TO CITY....some people may not know what rapid transit means.  But don't get me started about how much I think I could improve the trains here in the city.....

Funny story, my friends friend was visiting here from Charlotte NC this past weekend....and who did he bring with him..his girlfriend..the daughter of Mr Tober....who happens to now run the transit system down there.  MAN I wish he would have been able to do what he wanted to here (and what he IS doing down there).... :oops:

 

I've said that before.  Yes we have something original called "the rapid" but that doesn't translate into "train" for visitors coming into cleveland the first time.

I don't buy it.  "Metro" doesn't translate to "train" either, unless you're Parisian, but it seems to work okay here.  Even though the signs at National Airport point to "Metro" (and not "trains to city"), people seem to get the gist--about 15% of passengers (highest percentage in the nation) arrive at National Airport by transit. 

 

I think the lack of use of the Rapid from Hopkins has more to do with the incredibly decentralized nature of the region, and the lack of extensiveness of the Rapid system, than what the damn sign says.

The bus shelters in Chicago were built and are maintained by a private company (JC Decaux) in exchange for the ad revenue.  I don't think cta pays a dime. They do a pretty good job keeping them clean.  Before that, cta was not great at upkeep of the shelters.

there was an audit done of all of the signage at the airport.  there should be some changes forthcoming, but it could be a while. 

 

as is, the signs often point in conflicting directions, there aren't consistent "train" logos on the sign - a lot of the signs say "Limos/RTA --->"  I don't think people would logically assume that RTA would be grouped with the Limos, and there aren't train logos next.  They also go back and forth - they use Rapid Transit, RTA, and sometimes the bus logo.  It should at least be consistent.  "RTA Trains To City"

 

in addition, the exit from concourse C and D (from security section A, the continental area), there are NO signs directing to RTA. 

 

 

I strongly disagree.  We're talking about going to/from the airport to the city center. 

 

The signage and the fact that people don't see "train" or "train to the city" is misleading when we have one of the fastest trains to a major CBD.

 

the system in DC transporation system is called "the metro" or course people know that is way to the transportation option from DCA.  and at DCA the Train Station is CLEARLY VISIBLE from the terminal.

 

I ride the Red Line at all hours.  Usually when im leaving the city in the AM I'm riding on first two/three trains and its a good mix of airport employees and early departers Flyer and the trains are packed. RTA needs better partnerships and better signage with the Airport and Metro Cleveland marketing to get people to ride from the airport. 

Yes, the signs at Hopkins do need to be more consistent.  Even if they just said "Rapid", with a little train logo, that would be fine as long as the terminology remained the same througout.  The "RTA" logo means absolutely nothing to an out-of-town-visitor.

And now onto what urbanlife posted.....about the crappy street scape and bus stops/signage that Cleveland has compared to Chicago....not saying we need to BE Chicago...but the signage and bus stops (which actually face the STREET are pretty good ideas)...I hope someone will forward these pics to city leaders, downtown alliance, RTA, and whoever else might be able to do something about this  (God forbid, but would the PD actually run a possible story on this?)

I agree and disagree with both/all of you.  I think the photos you show are a tad misleading as they are on Chicago’s Michigan Ave/Magnificent mile – everything over there’s bound to look nice.  Actually, I think RTA’s done a decent job of signage and shelter downtown, and those handsome, black Euro kiosks Mike White put up downtown and in many neighborhoods (identical to ones placed in Montreal), give you a good snapshot of the Rapid, loops and the new trolley. (what sucks is RTA’s system map, which needs to be completely redone and drawn correctly, but that’s another issue.

 

As for the Airport Rapid: the signage could be better, but it’s pretty self explanatory.   Hopkins uses the universal cartoon/symbol of a train downtown and, in fact, if I recall, the terms train and Rapid transit are used – I really think big boys & girls, esp business folks, know what a “rapid transit” is.  Also, that city info booth has good info and the staff – usually decent – has Red Line schedules, and directs people to the trains as a fast/cheap option to downtown.

 

A decentralization problem for Cleveland?  Lack of extensiveness of RTA?  Yes and no.  I don’t think RTA’s lack of relative extensiveness has anything to do with airport riding.  But despite Chicago’s greatness as a city – my favorite in the U.S. bar none – let’s not put it too high on a pedestal because CTA, while great by American standards, is far from perfect… Many business people and visitors to Chicago often use the L only one time – to get to downtown Chicago and back to the airport at the end; that’s it.   I like the L, but I’m a weird transit geek.  Many people do not.  It’s old, it’s ugly (to many), it’s platforms are wooden (the elevated ones) and there are relatively few escalators and elevators only in the very few L and subway stations that have been renovated.  Try lugging luggage up and down those long, dark staircases in L subway tunnels, or squeezing past commuters on those narrow wood stairs descending from a Loop L station… I do it b/c I’m young, strong enough and like transit; but for the elderly, semi-infirm who are indifferent to it; or don’t’ even like it???

 

That the CTA L is a living, historic museum piece is fine and good for some of us, but it’s archaic and even slow, even out of the way to modern, non-transit types who would much prefer the comfort, speed and safety of tech-y, SOTA systems like DC’s Metro – despite the fact it’s boring to some old-schoolers.  I frankly think CTA’s subway portion of the L is deplorable – dirty, noisy, poorly lit, no elevators, broken escalators galore – the station renovation process is going at  snail’s pace.  And frankly, when it comes to the really trendy areas of Chicago on the North Side, even the Mag Mile (which has 2, maybe 3 subway stops 3 blocks away), it isn’t all that convenient, either.   Many ride the hundreds of CTA buses that troll the Mile and lakefront area, away from the L.   It doesn’t reach popular areas, either, like the museum campus on the lake, the convention center or (ugh) Navy Pier.

 

Cleveland just doesn’t have the size or the density to get huge crowds.  Some of it’s because the Rapid was built along RR ROWs, to be sure.   But how do you account for this? [scroll --> for full effect]

 

 

 

… Shaker Square, one of the region’s densest, upscale (generally), walk-able neighborhoods (with no RR’s or industry w/in miles), with nice, compact retail/restaurant districts (the Square, Larchmere and, to a degree, semi-rundown – though coming back –Buckeye, too) where rail use – while good by Cleveland standards, is paltry by other towns?   Remember, greater Chicago’s far flung and defuse, too – but they do have a strong downtown, business-wise, residential, wise… It is here I think we kick ourselves/get kicked in the groin.  Residential downtown is growing, but still small, relatively.  And we don’t have to talk about all those vacant, nearly vacant offices that march up ‘n down Euclid, esp at E. 9th and Playhouse Sq.

 

WE LACK LEADERSHP AND COOPERATION – to both lure retail, businesses back into town as well as forge some growth in walking-hoods, and TOD’s--whether is a problem w/ administrative structure-- why is every development malady here a problem with administrative structure!? -- we just aren't getting TOD's done here; not really, since Shaker Sq itself.  And yes, when you have an anti-rail guy like Joe Calabrese running RTA, don’t expect it to do a lot of the little things that we’ve discussed ad infinitum here (replacing the Podunk-ish, slow fare collection; more security at stations, etc) to make riding more attractive.

 

Still wish there were a line through the densest area between NYC and Chicago.....Clifton Blvd/Edgewater/lakewood...going dowtown...instead of the W Shoreway!

 

^I agree with what you had to say...for the most part

Aug Ridership Update

 

overall system ridership was up 2.1% in august year-over-year compared to aug 2005.

 

there were also more than 5000 bike rides (a new system record) and 42000 trolley rides.

 

i don't think the trolley is performing as well as it might, but all in all, good news.

 

Still wish there were a line through the densest area between NYC and Chicago.....Clifton Blvd/Edgewater/lakewood...going dowtown...instead of the W Shoreway!

 

 

 

I'm with you.  How hard would it be to extend a Red Line branch from West Blvd along the N-S right of way, thru the most dense corridor, to at least Rocky River?... and if I hear that weak-ass BRT on Clifton as the "economical alternative" again, I may puke.

^Even a step further, I would like to see a line like that incorporated with the Shoreway Blvd and somehow connect closer to downtown or maybe even under the Detroit/Superior Bridge.....but that is only dreaming when you can have BRT!!!!! 

Are you talking about the tracks that go in between Clifton and Detroit through Lakewood?

 

That would be AWESOME. I would ride it every single day.

Visit the Lorain-Cleveland rail thread. And, write to your City Councilman and to Congressman Kucinich and tell them what you want. Lakewood Mayor Tom George is already behind the West Shore Corridor regional rail proposal, as is Lakewood Community Progress Inc. The chamber of commerce and Lakewood Hospital are very interested in this project as well. But I would encourage you to post further comments on this at the other thread at:

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=6001.0

a means of increasing transit ridership.....

the pictures on the www or worth the visit!  http://www.ajc.com/news/content/metro/stories/2006/09/17/0918marta.html

 

Via HotLanta....

 

 

If MARTA looked like this, would you ride it?

Adman pitches a whole new MARTA 'concept'

 

By PAUL DONSKY

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Published on: 09/18/06

 

How's this for a smarter MARTA?

 

Leather couches in a furniture-store sponsored train car. Free rides on MLK Jr. Day — "Free at last," get it? Bicycle carts delivering "traffic jam" and toast to drivers stuck in gridlock, courtesy of MARTA. Pictures of reindeer plastered on trains during the Christmas season.

 

BrightHouse suggests that MARTA provide an opportunity for local artists to showcase their work and build their businesses.

 

....

MARTA's mission must no longer be limited to simply getting people from point A to point B, Reiman told the MARTA board of directors last week.

 

Yeah, when I ride PT my main goal is not not to get from point A to point B....it's to go to Disneyland!  Fuck getting to work on time.

http://www.riderta.com/nu_newsroom_releases.asp?listingid=949

 

Homeland Security grant will buy cameras for 60 Red Line vehicles

 

CLEVELAND – Taking a ride on the rail just became safer.

 

The Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority (RTA) has received a $893,000 grant from the Department of Homeland Security to install a state-of-the-art video camera system on 60 Red Line heavy-rail vehicles.

 

Each day, the Red Line vehicles are used by about 10 percent of the 200,000 people transported by RTA.

 

“This grant is a major step in RTA’s efforts to boost the overall safety and security of our system,” says Joe Calabrese, CEO and General Manager. “We want every customer, every day, to feel at ease while riding public transit.”

 

Information obtained by the security camera system will be shared with other law enforcement agencies in Northeast Ohio, says Transit Police Chief John P. Joyce. The system should be fully operational by next fall.

 

Related news:

 

- On Aug. 1, RTA Trustees approved the purchase a similar system for 40 light-rail vehicles on the Blue and Green lines, as well as 16 cameras at rail station platforms.

All 11 trolleys are equipped with video cameras.

 

- The 45 new buses that are expected to arrive later this year will also be video-equipped.

 

- The 21 Silver Line vehicles used on the Euclid Corridor will be equipped with cameras when the Project is finished in 2008.

 

- There are already 280 cameras watching RTA rail stations, bus facilities and parking lots.

 

 

Expenses::

 

·        The estimated cost of equipping each heavy-rail vehicle is $12,000, or $720,000 total.

 

·        The rest of the grant will be used for wireless equipment and network design and installation.

 

·        RTA has already spent $2.7 million for existing cameras on vehicles and in facilities.

 

 

 

Monday, the Homeland Security Department awarded nearly $400 million to help cities protect themselves from terrorist attacks. About $136 million was given to strengthen rail, bus and ferry systems.