Here are the service reductions that RTA has proposed:

 

http://www.riderta.com/sites/default/files/pdf/presentations/2016-02-09ServieProposal.pdf

 

It would be interesting to see how Brecksville and Broadview Heights react.  IIRC Brecksville was one of the systems merged into GCRTA.

 

If it's anger, transit is stll relevant to the more affluent rider.  if not....

I do like the #81 changes, not going to lie

 

This would keep the bus on West 14th as it goes through Tremont, right? Not saying I necessarily object, but is it weird that the commercial part of core Tremont would have no direct transit access? Safe to say that Tremonsters are overwhelmingly car commuters?

If there were one thing from Cleveland Hts that I would like to cut, it would be that loop around Severance on the #9. That would add up to quite a bit of service hours reduced over the year.

 

I do like the #81 changes, not going to lie

 

It's the only transit route from downtown to Steelyard Commons. Until a City Target and/or a Marshall's opens downtown, the #81 is the best access for downtown residents to a department store (as TPH2 well knows).

Here are the service reductions that RTA has proposed:

 

http://www.riderta.com/sites/default/files/pdf/presentations/2016-02-09ServieProposal.pdf

 

It would be interesting to see how Brecksville and Broadview Heights react.  IIRC Brecksville was one of the systems merged into GCRTA.

 

If it's anger, transit is stll relevant to the more affluent rider.  if not....

 

Census data suggest that fewer than 1% of Brecksville and Broadview Hts work commuters rely on transit, so.... http://factfinder.census.gov/bkmk/table/1.0/en/ACS/14_5YR/S0802/1600000US3908364

http://factfinder.census.gov/bkmk/table/1.0/en/ACS/14_5YR/S0802/1600000US3909064

 

Employers in those cities might have a different take, though, if that's how workers get out there.

 

Here are the service reductions that RTA has proposed:

 

http://www.riderta.com/sites/default/files/pdf/presentations/2016-02-09ServieProposal.pdf

 

It would be interesting to see how Brecksville and Broadview Heights react.  IIRC Brecksville was one of the systems merged into GCRTA.

 

If it's anger, transit is stll relevant to the more affluent rider.  if not....

 

Census data suggest that fewer than 1% of Brecksville and Broadview Hts work commuters rely on transit, so.... http://factfinder.census.gov/bkmk/table/1.0/en/ACS/14_5YR/S0802/1600000US3908364

http://factfinder.census.gov/bkmk/table/1.0/en/ACS/14_5YR/S0802/1600000US3909064

 

Employers in those cities might have a different take, though, if that's how workers get out there.

 

 

True, though right now it's just weekend service eliminated.

 

The term "rely on" can be deceiving.

^That term is mine alone, and I completely agree with you. The census question only allows respondents to pick one mode so completely omits occasional riders. Still, I bet it's a pretty tiny share of residents who ever take the bus.

^That term is mine alone, and I completely agree with you. The census question only allows respondents to pick one mode so completely omits occasional riders. Still, I bet it's a pretty tiny share of residents who ever take the bus.

 

You're probably right.  What the reaction will tell us is if they even consider it.  Despite my belief that the overwhelming majority of potential riders are commute-only prospects, I think it will be telling.

 

We know what Shaker Heights's reaction would be if they proposed ending weekend service on the rapids.

 

 

[article quote] "According to Calabrese, Ohio pays 62 cents per capita toward public transit. And neighboring states, including Michigan, Pennsylvania and Illinois, pay as much as $51 per person."

 

As I've said, this fact should be a HUGE EMBARRASSMENT to our supposedly more moderate/forward thinking guv-turned-Presidential-candidate and this summer's RNC host.

 

 

Interesting, because a friend of mine just FB posted an article he wrote for Crain's Detroit:

 

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20160214/NEWS/302149982/i-75-plan-opens-transportation-rift

 

And one of the replies said that Cleveland has a much better transit system than Detroit.  Which dominates urban Michigan of course, their second biggest city would be #6 here.

 

What are they paying for?

[article quote] "According to Calabrese, Ohio pays 62 cents per capita toward public transit. And neighboring states, including Michigan, Pennsylvania and Illinois, pay as much as $51 per person."

 

As I've said, this fact should be a HUGE EMBARRASSMENT to our supposedly more moderate/forward thinking guv-turned-Presidential-candidate and this summer's RNC host.

 

 

Interesting, because a friend of mine just FB posted an article he wrote for Crain's Detroit:

 

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20160214/NEWS/302149982/i-75-plan-opens-transportation-rift

 

And one of the replies said that Cleveland has a much better transit system than Detroit.  Which dominates urban Michigan of course, their second biggest city would be #6 here.

 

What are they paying for?

 

If you look at the SMART bus system, which covers Wayne, Oakland, Macomb, and Monroe counties, they got $25 million (24%) from the state and their total revenue was $104 million. RTA's general fund revenue was $279 million, of which pretty much nothing came from the state. Wayne, Oakland, And Macomb counties contributed $66.1 million (or 24%) from property taxes, and RTA's county sales tax generated $198 million (or 70%). So, we have much more funding from our local millage than they do in property taxes. I didn't look at Detroit's DDOT funding, but their primary local source comes from the city's general fund.

 

Looking at the DDOT budget (from 13-14, I couldn't find a more recent one), they were looking at $48 million from the state (30%) and $61 million from the city (39%) out of  a total revenue projection of $156 million.

 

So basically, the state of Michigan gives them a pretty high share of their total revenue, but they lack the local funding commitment that we have made here in Cuyahoga County. That may change soon though as the newly formed Southeast Michigan RTA will be looking to put a millage on the ballot for the whole region. SE Michigan RTA has been undertaking a master plan process to increase transit in the region and is creating a lot of excitement about future transit growth.

Having used both I think we're much better off here, but it depends on what you're trying to do.  In Wayne County you need two different bus systems to travel between Detroit and the inner-ring burbs.  Quite a hassle.  The best feature there, which we don't have, is that all the surrounding counties share one system.

 

Are they now merging DDOT with SMART?  If so, that would solve their biggest conundrum.

Their transit system is highly balkanized and spread over a much larger area. I'm sure that in total service-miles they have much more transit. But if you stand on a given busy street corner in metro Detroit (like in Troy, Romulus, or Pontiac), you will see far fewer buses go by in a day than you will on a busy street corner in Rocky River, Maple Heights, Beachwood or Euclid. And Detroit is about to get its first 24-hour bus service! On only three routes!! http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2016/01/15/ddot-24-hour-bus-service/78800534/

Everyone there just assumes it's terrible on purpose, because obviously you should buy a car. 

RTA Red Line currently in single track west bound passed Ohio City. I might switch to the 55 since this corridor is so slow...

RTA Red Line currently in single track west bound passed Ohio City. I might switch to the 55 since this corridor is so slow...

 

Since when? I didn't see a tweet from RTA or a commuter alert about it

 

I spoke 30 seconds too soon.

 

[email protected]

"The Red Line service is running a 25 minute frequency eastbound and westbound. We apologize for the inconvenience!"

RTA Red Line currently in single track west bound passed Ohio City. I might switch to the 55 since this corridor is so slow...

 

Except the 55 is half-hourly between the rush hours, hourly in the evenings and stops running at 10pm.

Had a very entertaining driver on the Red Line to CLE on Saturday afternoon. Hilarious station announcements. Guy may have a night job as a radio dj. Made the trip fun.

Had a very entertaining driver on the Red Line to CLE on Saturday afternoon. Hilarious station announcements. Guy may have a night job as a radio dj. Made the trip fun.

 

Next time, get the guy's name and thank him publicly via Twitter, Facebook or here at UO. His name and operator ID# are on a card above his driver seat.

As @GCRTA wrestles w/ tighter budget, NE Ohio may need to rethink approach to public transit

https://t.co/UaqsKCmu9R

Not sure if this is the right spot for this,  *new poster, long time *lingerer

 

I'm attending the cavs game vs Denver Monday March 21, looking to go to the rock hall as well.. was wondering if the waterfront line will be running that day? Last time I took that line it was only going on weekends I believe.  I like to take red line from w 150th when I go to events downtown

Hi TwoStickney419, the Waterfront Line runs daily until midnight. On weekdays, the first train arrives the Waterfront at 6:44am. On weekends, the first arrives at 9:05am.

^^Get an all day pass. Trying to figure out when, where, what and why to pay your fare when switching trains is confusing and expensive

Thanks guys, I usually get the day pass even if im.just going from 150th to TC and back. One of these times I'm gonna go take all the trains just to see where they go

Thanks guys, I usually get the day pass even if im.just going from 150th to TC and back. One of these times I'm gonna go take all the trains just to see where they go

 

Set aside a whole day. You wouldn't think there's enough rail lines for that but there is. I've done it a few times to show people from other cities, yet they set aside only a morning or just an afternoon and we didn't get to see everything.

Thanks guys, I usually get the day pass even if im.just going from 150th to TC and back. One of these times I'm gonna go take all the trains just to see where they go

 

Set aside a whole day. You wouldn't think there's enough rail lines for that but there is. I've done it a few times to show people from other cities, yet they set aside only a morning or just an afternoon and we didn't get to see everything.

 

Now imagine if we actually had some good TOD along those lines

Thanks guys, I usually get the day pass even if im.just going from 150th to TC and back. One of these times I'm gonna go take all the trains just to see where they go

 

Well, you certainly come with a good attitude toward transit which too many don't have in Cleveland. If you ignore the "it's too slow" and "the Rapid doesn't go anywhere" crowd, you will realize Cleveland's rail network can be quite useful to getting you a lot of important places, esp Cleveland's hot spots... but you already know that.

 

... and yes, has TPH2 notes, the more our leaders and developers understand this as well as our younger generation's desire, indeed demand, for more urban experiences and quality mass transit (as the Cleveland Magazine article noted), there will be more of a concerted effort to develop TOD like Uptown, Centric and FEB.

I forget how good we have it until I end up in a city that has intra-county fare zones, and no all day passes.

I forget how good we have it until I end up in a city that has intra-county fare zones, and no all day passes.

 

Maybe so, but when I used the system for the first time in awhile I was pretty surprised that there were no longer transfers.  Especially on a hub based system.

Maybe so, but when I used the system for the first time in awhile I was pretty surprised that there were no longer transfers.  Especially on a hub based system.

 

Transfer privileges are granted with any purchased fare media. The only time transfers are not given is with cash fare.

The bus driver can't give you a transfer ticket if you pay cash upon boarding a bus? I don't remember but I think in Columbus/COTA, you can do that.

The bus driver can't give you a transfer ticket if you pay cash upon boarding a bus? I don't remember but I think in Columbus/COTA, you can do that.

 

You used to be able to in Cleveland too.  Now you need to buy an all day pass,  IIRC.

I love the rapid!  Very convenient for m, I wish it extended out further than the airport,  but it still saves a lil gas/wear n tear on the jeep.. Plus, if going to multiple places,  you actually save on parking. ..

 

 

One more question...Does the rapid all day pass also get you on a bus too? 

I love the rapid!  Very convenient for m, I wish it extended out further than the airport,  but it still saves a lil gas/wear n tear on the jeep.. Plus, if going to multiple places,  you actually save on parking. ..

 

 

One more question...Does the rapid all day pass also get you on a bus too? 

 

I'm 99% sure it does.

I love the rapid!  Very convenient for m, I wish it extended out further than the airport,  but it still saves a lil gas/wear n tear on the jeep.. Plus, if going to multiple places,  you actually save on parking. ..

 

 

One more question...Does the rapid all day pass also get you on a bus too? 

 

I'm 99% sure it does.

 

Yes.  An all-day Rapid pass covers you system-wide and is $5.00.  The all-day bus pass is slightly cheaper ($4.50?), but would only cover buses, not the Rapid.

I love the rapid!  Very convenient for m, I wish it extended out further than the airport,  but it still saves a lil gas/wear n tear on the jeep.. Plus, if going to multiple places,  you actually save on parking. ..

 

 

One more question...Does the rapid all day pass also get you on a bus too? 

 

I'm 99% sure it does.

 

Yes.  An all-day Rapid pass covers you system-wide and is $5.00.  The all-day bus pass is slightly cheaper ($4.50?), but would only cover buses, not the Rapid.

 

There is no such thing as an "all-day bus pass". An all-day pass is an all-day pass, costs $5 ($4 for students, $2.50 for seniors/children/disabled riders), and gives you access to the entire system. http://www.riderta.com/fares

^OK, thanks for the clarification.  I never ride the bus only, but know its base fare is slightly cheaper than the Rapid.

^OK, thanks for the clarification.  I never ride the bus only, but know its base fare is slightly cheaper than the Rapid.

 

The base fare for the bus is the same as the Rapid--both $2.25

thanks again for clearing that up...  that's awesome you can use the all day pass for both the rapid and the bus system.. I'm hoping to someday move to Cleveland, would love to live near a rapid station and not have to always use my car. I really wish Toledo could support a rapid system, or hell, even make our tarta more useable.. They've cut routes and service a lot the last few years and the cost of what you still get goes up higher n higher every year.

thanks again for clearing that up...  that's awesome you can use the all day pass for both the rapid and the bus system.. I'm hoping to someday move to Cleveland, would love to live near a rapid station and not have to always use my car. I really wish Toledo could support a rapid system, or hell, even make our tarta more useable.. They've cut routes and service a lot the last few years and the cost of what you still get goes up higher n higher every year.

 

RTA is cutting service here too and raising fares. Welcome to life in Ohio, which isn't a rural state but it sure is being run like it's one.

 

When you're ready to make the move, and if you want some advice on where to live, feel free to post a new thread in this section:

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/board,30.0.html

For my commute home yesterday evening, the normal green / articulated "bendy" bus for the 55 CSU line must have broken down, and was replaced with a stock single/non-bendy bus, it was pretty tight, every seat taken, only a few standing spots available with a squeeze. (Not quite time to call in guy with white gloves to pack people like cattle, but, just saying that it appears that the 55 line appears to have pretty good ridership, at least during rush hours).

 

Second. One of the things that Jarrett Walker (aka @humantransit) mentioned at Old Stone Church yesterday was that to an "outsider" like him looking to go somewhere from downtown, the free trolleys were the ones that advertised themselves to him, so those were the ones he took. (I've never taken a trolley), but I would say those are mostly designed for visitors / tourists who want an easy way to get to Playhouse Square / Rock Hall / Hotel, and less so much for getting to a different district in the city. At the bus stop near Public Square it has a big trolley map, but no simplified bus/network map. So perhaps it might be helpful for RTA to slightly tweak their network to follow Jarrett's idea of Frequent service (i.e. coming soon, less than 15 minute wait) in thick stroke red, medium service 15m+ in medium stroke blue, and coverage service to get you to less traveled areas that is hourly in a thin stroke yellow. So, a combo of network tweaking to make it easy to navigate connected / rapid service, and then some signage that one could navigate if I wanted to get from Lakewood to the Airport, or from University Circle to West Park that you could look for routes to get there. I almost always have to pull up Google Maps Transit or Transit App to figure out my best route home.

I live after a split on the 55 line, which means its usually on a 10m, 10m, 20m cycle (it splits to go to Crocker Park). So if you are trying to go during the 20m cycle, its often better to connect 26 -> Red, or I could just walk a bit further to catch where they still overlap.

 

Another question. Does anyone know how common it is for transit systems, or cities to have a place to lock a bike to near a bus stop? Although bike-aboard / rack&roll is available, I'm often going to Public Square / Tower City, and don't need the bike there. It would be better to just lock up the bike in my neighborhood at the bus stop. So.. Who would be the best complaint department in terms of getting a bike stall near the bus stop? My neighborhoods department of public safety, NOACA, RTA?

 

Lastly, halfway to three-quarters off topic. Suppose I wanted to encourage people in my neighborhood to stop being so lazy, and driving EVERYWHERE. People drive their kids to school, and then drive home (they live on the same street as the school). Old River shopping district is often at the limits of parking for all the shops there. (One proposal is to rip out the Marion Ct freeway-style on-ramps to Clifton, and put in PARKING LOTS for Old River district). People drive to their easily walkable fitness centers. Active transportation reduces your need to get supplemental fitness, and makes people less obese. If you could walk the five minutes to the shops, then you could walk the five minutes to the bus stop, and use it more often. At the gym I hear people complain about the crazy price for parking, or since they were drinking how much a taxi costs to go to Cavs games.

 

I suppose the design of parking minimums, and less-than-medium density, ample free parking, and drive thru's do wonders to keep motorist motoring? Should you attend city council meetings and make it known that buildings should be along the street, bark at parking minimums in favor of maximums, and remind your neighbors they can walk to where they went. Should there be a first-time-RTA-rider-kindle-giveaway-trust-fund? Joe C's book-of-the-month club? Or street banners along telephone poles advertising "Take RTA to The Q, 55/CSU is 25 minutes from public sQuare at this point, runs till 10p"

Good idea for #2. More routes could be consolidated into high-frequency corridors and re-branded, like what GCRTA is doing on West 25th/Pearl.

 

Most of the bus stops along Clifton have a place for bikes to be locked up. I see many of them near me in Lakewood are used.

 

Yes, Americans are lazy when it comes to walking. Even the healthy people are lazy. Americans park illegally on the grass near the front door to the health spa because they don't want to park legally four rows away and walk "so far" to the entrance.

 

Bad urban design is influenced by, and influences these behaviors. But those behaviors change through evolution, so no quick fixes are likely absent a hostile response. People seem to love the way a pedestrian-friendly setting looks, but then say "we can't do that in my area" because of some arbitrary belief they've somehow let into their head. Maybe they just don't notice things when they travel to other cities or countries, and recognize that those settings were first created in a human's mind and built by the will of motivated humans' -- not by some cosmic accident. See the discussion we're having in the CSU development thread.

Active transportation reduces your need to get supplemental fitness, and makes people less obese. If you could walk the five minutes to the shops, then you could walk the five minutes to the bus stop, and use it more often. At the gym I hear people complain about the crazy price for parking, or since they were drinking how much a taxi costs to go to Cavs games.

 

Uhm are you advocating getting rid of the valets at my gym?  Valet parkers are people too man!  With real bills and real problems!  And besides, have you seen me trying to get in and out of my SUV?  It's like a rock-climbing adventure!  Especially while talking on the phone and cradling a 700 calorie Frappachino!  :angel:

Peter thank you for your post.  You made some good points. I was at the Jarrett Walker lecture also and found it disconcerting that a "transit" person said he couldn't find any info about RTA but saw lots of info about Trolleys. The trolleys are heavily advertised and supported by local business. RTA needs to upgrade its marketing and approach advertising differently.

 

As far as your comments about fitness. RTA and other transit systems have been part of my fitness plan. I read that on average, transit users get in 20 minutes of exercise walking everyday just by using transit!  Lets promote transit as a health issue.  When you look at all the people killed and disabled by auto accidents and add the fitness benefits, transit looks like a new years resolution to promote health and well-being.

RTA needs to upgrade its marketing and approach advertising differently.

 

Since you're already a transit user, you might not be the best person to ask this of, but HOW, exactly, should that marketing be "upgraded", or "approached differently"? I'd be curious to hear specifics.

I'd like to chime in about kids walking to school. I can tell you as a parent that I know parents whose school-aged kids have had the cops called on them because they ere walking alone, to or from school. Then the parent gets in trouble and are told not to let the kids walk alone anymore. This is primarily with little kids/elementary aged. It's not as simple as "lazy." Other people's nosiness is really a problem. And when you are in a situation like mine, where I share custody with my ex, one negative report to the police, even if it's completely baseless and unfounded, could mean me losing custody of my child. So yeah, I'll be driving him, every single day while he is a minor.

 

It just isn't the 70s anymore. We can't just let kids do what they want, as it's a real risk because of other judgy people.

How did we get from public transit to this topic??

 

That's a screwed-up community you live in, and in a pretty screwed up country! Can you imagine the response by someone from Europe or Asia if they hear about that? Even in Lakewood everyone walks to school, and many kids walk alone. No problem. No one calls the cops on the routine. I did a column in Sun in the 1990s "Car potatoes are stranger than any fiction." The bigger problem is fat kids in the USA who are developing obesity, diabetes, high blood pressure, earlier in life. That's the real risk to personal safety here.

 

Americans are so lazy we are lampooned in famous memes and cartoons. Do a google search and you'll find many more...

 

 

 

 

 

What a f-cked up country we are. I often have a hard time explaining it to my fiancee (she's from Europe)....

 

Anyway, back to transit.

I don't want to get too off topic, I just wanted to address that as it relates to the question posted. And this was not "my community," it's just someone I know. But it's a real concern for all mothers, we talk about it all the time - other people watching, judging and reporting your behavior is a major factor in how much independence you can give your kids. So try not to judge when people are driving their kids EVERYWHERE instead of putting them on public transit or letting them walk.

 

Just a few examples here: http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/20/living/feat-md-free-range-parents-under-attack/

F them. Live your own life.

Easy to say when you don't share custody with a touchy ex. But I know what you mean.

RTA needs to upgrade its marketing and approach advertising differently.

 

Since you're already a transit user, you might not be the best person to ask this of, but HOW, exactly, should that marketing be "upgraded", or "approached differently"? I'd be curious to hear specifics.

 

There's lots of good, super creative filmmakers in town. You should hold a contest where filmmakers create a 30 second piece on how convenient it is to use RTA and how to use the fare machines. Anything to get non-riders more familiar with the process will help. Trust me. These short clips will be all over Youtube and Facebook in no time.

Easy to say when you don't share custody with a touchy ex. But I know what you mean.

 

That would make it worse for sure, but even the schools feel free to butt into kids' outside lives and second guess parents these days .  It wasn't that long ago that this was strictly off limits.