Does track work happen at night? Or only during the day?

 

2.  NextConnect does a reasonably good job of predicting when a bus or train will depart from a given location.  It says nothing about how long the trip is going to take.  That would be very useful information; I presume it should be reasonably easy to gather, at least on those few lines that still run with some frequency; it would help people to time transfers, and to reduce the percentage of the time they must wait an hour or more for a connection, possibly in the rain or cold or withering heat or in a less than safe neighborhood.

 

I'll give RTA some kudos for NextConnect.  It's a useful feature that many big-city transit systems I've seen don't have (in Philly SEPTA has this regional rail app called TrainView which is close to useless), and is pretty accurate and updated for late rapids and buses, esp the HL. 

 

As for trackwork, I feel your pain.  The last few times I've used the Blue and Green Lines, I note that RTA's dreaded "slow zones" have crept over to the East Side, at least on the main trunk line from around E. 55th to TC where tracks are shared with the Red Line.

FYI......

 

Dear friend of RTA:

 

As previously communicated, the 2016 budget, approved by the Board of Trustees of the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority (RTA), necessitates an adjustment of 2.5% of its operating budget ($7 million) through service modifications, fare increases or a combination of the two.

 

During the last 30 days, RTA has held 15 public meetings, with more than 900 persons attending and 515 persons offering public comment, either in person, by phone or by mail.

 

RTA staff listened to those comments, and presented a modified proposal on both fares and service levels to the Board of Trustees on April 26. As a result of that discussion, it was decided to further investigate the utilization of, and costs associated with, the Waterfront Line.

 

The Waterfront Line currently operates every 15 minutes from approximately 6:45 a.m. to midnight on weekdays, and from 9 a.m. to midnight on weekends. The original proposal discussed at the public meetings was to reduce weekday service to end at approximately 7 p.m.

 

RTA increased service levels on the Waterfront Line to support the opening of the Flats East Bank development. Although ridership has grown, it is less than what was anticipated and may not support the current investment.

 

As a result, RTA has scheduled another public hearing for noon on May 16 at the RTA Main Office to seek comment on one or more proposals to reduce the hours of service on the Waterfront Line. This reduction may affect weekday and/or weekend service.

 

Because of this additional public hearing, no final decision on fares or service levels is expected by the RTA Board until June 7, 2016. It is anticipated that the changes, if approved in June, will be effective in August as originally planned.

 

If you have any questions, please call or email. Thanks for your continued support of RTA and public transit.

 

Joe

 

Joseph A. Calabrese

CEO, General Manager and

Secretary-Treasurer

Greater Cleveland Reg. Transit Authority

1240 West Sixth Street

Cleveland, Ohio 44113

216/566-5218 (Office)

216/781-4043 (Fax)

[email protected]

^ Thanks, KJP. Has this meeting been promulgated besides via email to a select group of people? I haven't seen anything about it on the website/social media.

Please enlighten us as to why Cleveland's rail system, the light-rail lines in particular, have such dismal ridership numbers...and how would you remedy the issue to increase ridership?

 

I get yelled at every time I mention this sort of thing, but I'm going to anyway since I believe it to be part of your answer.

 

I ride the trains only occasionally, usually only if going to or from downtown or U/C.  Usually on weekends.  But in the past couple years, I've *rarely* have a positive experience.  Apparently they are always doing track work.  On Saturdays.  During the day.  While the trains are full or very nearly full.  The single-tracking produces long delays and makes trip planning close to impossible.

 

Example: a couple weeks ago.  Wanted to get from U/C to Triskett.  Had to settle for West 98th because of emergency track work.  Needed to get a ride from there, whereas from Triskett we probably could have walked.  But the worst part is that the train took more than 45 minutes, not the scheduled 27, to travel between these two stations.  While the replacement of trains with shuttle buses between West 98 and Triskett was announced, the 18+ minute delay was not.  Had I known, we'd have used the HealthLine and 26 to reach exactly our destination from exactly our origin, and, even with the ridiculous Public Square construction delays, it would likely have been faster than the entire trip (with walking from Severance Hall and needing a ride from West 98) turned out to be.  Or we could have just driven and it would have been faster, and cheaper as well (because I had 3 kids with me).

 

This is not how you sell a transit system to people who have a choice.  Mind you I'm not talking about just potential riders; I'm also talking about the many more people paying the taxes that subsidize, or used to subsidize, having a halfway decent quality of service.

 

It's also not how you get people *without* a choice to and from their jobs, without them getting fired for constantly being late, or fined for overstaying their time at the day care, or screwed out of getting to see their kids' concerts and recitals and volleyball matches because they missed their connecting bus that only runs every hour.

 

I realize a lot of folks at RTA, probably the vast majority, are doing the best they can with very, very minimal funding by historical standards.

 

But if you want to understand and perhaps address at least one of the reasons why people aren't riding the trains - the fact that for most of us, time is money and we can afford to waste neither - then here are a few suggestions, which I believe could be implemented with very minimal cost.

 

1.  Track work should be done during times that are relatively convenient for riders.  And it should be announced.  If there are going to be delays - and they must be predictable, to some degree, because I can predict one just about every time I use the Red Line on a Saturday afternoon - announce those as well.

 

2.  NextConnect does a reasonably good job of predicting when a bus or train will depart from a given location.  It says nothing about how long the trip is going to take.  That would be very useful information; I presume it should be reasonably easy to gather, at least on those few lines that still run with some frequency; it would help people to time transfers, and to reduce the percentage of the time they must wait an hour or more for a connection, possibly in the rain or cold or withering heat or in a less than safe neighborhood.

 

I still think RTA does some of its job recruiting at county jail or has a work release program.  All of the points you raised are valid and all it takes is some common sense to keep inconvenienced riders informed. 

 

One night coming in from the Airport, being tired etc, my stop was supposed to be West Park.  Conductor didn't announce any stops at all.  I missed West Park; was reprimanded with an attitude by the conductor for not paying attention.  Got dumped off at Triskett to wait for the next (and last of the night) train.  Temp. was about 20  degrees in driving snow. 

 

We both know the system; the concern is out of towners, visitors from the area etc. that are placed in these situations.  My case was on inbound Airport train; trust me, if a visitor coming into town on these trains experiences this type of thing (both of our examples) they will be making other arrangements when heading back to the Airport or moving around locally while in town.

 

 

There are a number of really basic things other systems seem to have no problem with that RTA can't get right:

 

1. consistent on board stop announcements

2. destination signs on all rail vehicles

3. uncluttered count down clocks at rail stations and key bus stops

4. decently designed system maps

5. decently designed fare vending machines

6. "smart" fare media

7. decently designed web site

 

I'm still confused about RTA's real time arrival data...is it GPS based or just based on published schedules? If the latter, add that to the list.

 

[edited to distinguish between TVMs and fare media, both of which are bad]

^Route cuts on buses, significant rail service reductions on the Rapid and fare hikes across the board.  There are only a few deviations from the proposals put forward prior to the "public comment." 

 

The bus service is at the bare bones as it is, in terms of (non) frequency; the whole system is almost like a commuter bus service, frequency-wise.  Bus coverage has been significantly weakened in recent years due to cuts, and it's getting worse.  Right now, with most so called "feeder" bus lines into the Rapid (or their being used as simply crosstown commuter lines), service is every hour on most of them and, in the case of the No. 45, which currently connects to the W. 65th St Rapid station, will disappear all together. 

 

As for the Rapid, the Green Line service cuts (no service after 8p) are going to inconvenience suburban riders to the point where many will either drive downtown or opt not to go downtown at all.  Of course people can drive the (generally) 1, 1.5 miles to a Blue Line station, but many will see this as a hassle, and will not do so.

 

As for the hated (by some) Waterfront Line, it seems foolish to cut after 7 service now, right before the warm weather season and the 1st  full summer at the expanded Flats East Bank, where there are weekend crowds even now.  Money savings (we're told by RTA) for reducing the WFL will amount to $300K per year.  (NOTE: it was pointed out up thread that RTA is spending $275K for advertising -- most of which is pretty horrible/non-information imho).  And trust me, after some of the few customers left on the WFL are discouraged by the cuts and leave, Calabrese will return with his rush hour and daytime-weekends only service that existed pre-2013 prior to FEB's Phase 1 opening.  Calabrese said he would approach Wolstein/Fairmount, the FEB builders/owners, asking for support about helping fund the WFL.  Never heard anymore about this -- I guess not many people cared enough to follow-up, if Calabrese even asked them in the 1st place.

 

Despite all the (quiet) grumbling about how this state (see the REPUBLICANS of this state) starving transit with non-support even compared to such backwards neighbors, transit-wise, as IIRC Michigan and Indiana, I don't see local media (certainly not the "there are no villains here" PD -- though Crain's did speak strongly on this issue) officials, particularly RTA chief, Joe Calabrese, kicking up much sand about it nor are local pols either (where's Frank Jackson?  where's Armond Budish?  Where are the City Councilmen in whose districts are many transit-dependent individuals trying to get to work who are injured by all this?, etc, etc). 

 

Meanwhile Joe Calabrese won't give any straight answers about the Rapid rail car crisis that threatens, in the near future, to close light rail service completely, other than getting snippy with KJP/AAO in the media for simply raising the question.  And has been noted, this is no excuse for not having any serious plans for the future...

 

So here we are in our renaissance City (at least downtown and several key neighborhoods) with a transit system becoming more irrelevant every day: raising fares, cutting service, driving riders away with no serious comprehensive plan for growth, esp on the rail side... in other words,  a recipe for disaster.

 

What do expect from a rail system designed in the early 1900s to transport Shaker Hghts residents to downtown CLE for work and another line routed in the 1950s with one out of the way and unmarked downtown station?

 

What do expect from a city-sponsored light rail extension 20 years ago for the same limited number of Shaker Hts users planning a trip to go drinking in the old Flats?

 

We've seen what has happened to local workforce downtown and let's throw in 60% city population loss.

 

CIN's streetcar, with its limited route, at least will provide multi-stop service from the riverfront to OTR.  Fare: $1.00 or $2.00 for a day pass.  This is obviously designed to spur use and real collateral development.

 

The same could apply to the WFL but how many people are going to use it with its current configuration?  Not many.  No one staying at the 9 or the Schofield will use it unless it is accessible at or near 9th/Euclid.

 

I don't think it's too hard to figure out why very few people use the rail system in Cleveland, especially the WFL.

I'm still confused about RTA's real time arrival data...is it GPS based or just based on published schedules? If the latter, add that to the list.

 

Like those "countdown" clocks on the 55 bus stations? They were ALWAYS wrong when I took it daily. It can't be GPS.

^I haven't seen the new CSU line stations, but yeah, probably that info. Do those stations have LED screens with scrolling info, including ads and upcoming departure times, like those on the HL and Red Line stations?

Where have JetDog been and that other person who works for RTA who used to comment on these boards?

 

There are a number of really basic things other systems seem to have no problem with that RTA can't get right:

 

1. consistent on board stop announcements

2. destination signs on all rail vehicles

3. uncluttered count down clocks at rail stations and key bus stops

4. decently designed system maps

5. decently designed fare vending machines

6. "smart" fare media

7. decently designed web site

 

I'm still confused about RTA's real time arrival data...is it GPS based or just based on published schedules? If the latter, add that to the list.

 

[edited to distinguish between TVMs and fare media, both of which are bad]

 

The above points about things RTA can't seem to figure out needs to be addressed by those in RTA management.

^I haven't seen the new CSU line stations, but yeah, probably that info. Do those stations have LED screens with scrolling info, including ads and upcoming departure times, like those on the HL and Red Line stations?

 

Just time information - current time, and departure time of the next bus.

^ Thanks, KJP. Has this meeting been promulgated besides via email to a select group of people? I haven't seen anything about it on the website/social media.

 

Don't know. Haven't been able to work on much advocacy stuff lately.

There are a number of really basic things other systems seem to have no problem with that RTA can't get right:

 

7. decently designed web site

 

Straphanger, I'm going to confine my response to your one area of concern that is within my power to most directly affect. I'd love to know more about what aspects of our website(s) you don't feel to be "decently designed".

 

You can choose to continue the conversation here, or , as I think the mods might prefer to lessen clutter, you can email your concerns and suggestions to [email protected]. Messages to that box come to me directly.

 

This same offer applies to all readers of this forum. Dialogue is the first step to improvement.

I was going to ask if anyone knew or could speculate if the Red Line's "go slow zone" between W25-W65 would be fixed, and we'd have some trains of grand velocity through there in time for RNC. I did a quick search, and see that yes, the go-slow-zone will be eliminated.

 

Effective: May 8, 2016 until further notice

Effective Sunday, May 8, 2016, westbound Red Line trains will be able to travel at higher speeds between the W  25 - Ohio City and W 65 - Lorain Stations due to the completion of track work in that area.

Westbound trains will depart all stations from W 65 - Lorain to Brookpark, and arrive at the Airport Station, 3 minutes earlier than shown in the April 24, 2016 timetable.

A new timetable dated May 8, 2016 is available online now, and printed timetables will be available soon.

RTA appreciates our riders' patience.

 

 

One other thing I found (non GCRTA) is that Chicago has a public map and action plan of their "slow zone elimination", putting the rapid back in rapid transit. http://www.transitchicago.com/sze/

If GCRTA could post occasional "what we're doing for you", and problems we seek to address, I'd like that level of engagement and transparency. Sort of like a known-issues, and if anyone has ideas or timelines, then that is helpful to know. Such as here is a track map, and what is poor health, good health, or speeds that are limited in certain zones, and could be improvement with some track upgrades.

 

Also, one random idea I had today, is that the 55 "bendy bus" heading east into downtown gets off the shoreway at Lakeside, and then turns right at W 3rd. This is often a pain-point, because articulated buses have a wider turn, there is usually a car on W3rd stopped at a red light wanting to turn left onto Lakeside, and maybe there is a vehicle parked in a bad spot. Sometimes the car will reverse to let the bus get through, and sometimes the bus driver is a magician, who can nimbly weave right through. So, what-if, when the bus is approaching the exit of the shoreway, a "smart city" sensor gets activated, and the next red light at W 3rd, moves the white "stop here" line from near the sidewalk, to one set back by 15 feet, assuring plenty of space to make it. And perhaps if we're going this direction, then you could try to get lights to have cycles such that busses flow better?

 

Another thought. At some points in the day, perhaps when busses are added or removed from peak service, I'll see a non-service bus heading from Westgate Transit Center, to hit I-90 W, to return perhaps to Triskett. I wonder if it would be possible for these "express" busses to work as one-time park&ride express busses, that for certain locations, and certain times, you can catch a really fast shortcut to a certain location. Or, a non-service returning bus during peak, would be going the opposite direction of the peak, in which very few people are trying to go that direction...

 

And one more... Transit App on my phone (and RTA's next connect) have real-time data on where and when trains/busses are, and thus, the data is available for when next train/next bus will be at a stop (published schedule + calculated based on gps hitting previous checkpoints). So, I'm thinking I might try to hack up a DIY next-train digital sign at home, that queries info, and displays it. I doubt RTA would be interesting in deploying "civic DIY" solutions, when these types of things typically involve Request-For-Proposals, budgets, and big vendors with legal departments. But, such solutions could be deployed in stations with power+wifi, or lacking that, sim-card+solar... Just wondering if anyone has broached something like this in CLE.

I just re-read that RTA post. The West-bound trains will run faster due to elimination of go-slow zone between W25-W65. So, in case RNC convention goes sour, people can get out quick. Hopefully there is still plans to enhance the East-bound/in-bound go slow. (I haven't ridden East bound in that area, since before the bus-bridge, so I might be out-of-date).

There are a number of really basic things other systems seem to have no problem with that RTA can't get right:

 

7. decently designed web site

 

Straphanger, I'm going to confine my response to your one area of concern that is within my power to most directly affect. I'd love to know more about what aspects of our website(s) you don't feel to be "decently designed".

 

You can choose to continue the conversation here, or , as I think the mods might prefer to lessen clutter, you can email your concerns and suggestions to [email protected]. Messages to that box come to me directly.

 

This same offer applies to all readers of this forum. Dialogue is the first step to improvement.

 

Thanks JeTDoG[/member] . I've outlined several specific suggestions in this space over the past couple years, but I know this isn't the best way to relay info to you. Note, the suggestions refer to the content of the website, not its functionality, so "poorly designed" probably wasn't the best way to describe the issue. I can be in touch via email, but unless Mods disagree, I'd like offer suggestions in a new thread here to open the process up to other RTA users as well, so I'll try that first.

There are a number of really basic things other systems seem to have no problem with that RTA can't get right:

 

7. decently designed web site

 

Straphanger, I'm going to confine my response to your one area of concern that is within my power to most directly affect. I'd love to know more about what aspects of our website(s) you don't feel to be "decently designed".

 

You can choose to continue the conversation here, or , as I think the mods might prefer to lessen clutter, you can email your concerns and suggestions to [email protected]. Messages to that box come to me directly.

 

This same offer applies to all readers of this forum. Dialogue is the first step to improvement.

 

Thanks JeTDoG[/member] . I've outlined several specific suggestions in this space over the past couple years, but I know this isn't the best way to relay info to you. Note, the suggestions refer to the content of the website, not its functionality, so "poorly designed" probably wasn't the best way to describe the issue. I can be in touch via email, but unless Mods disagree, I'd like offer suggestions in a new thread here to open the process up to other RTA users as well, so I'll try that first.

 

I'd be happy to use either venue.

 

There is a certain amount that design can contribute to ease of content updating and content consumption, so I'll take the hit on that where it's due.

 

Based on suggestions, I'll "fix" what I can, shepherd along and encourage what I can, and try to offer alternatives for anything that doesn't fit the first two handling methods.

I just re-read that RTA post. The West-bound trains will run faster due to elimination of go-slow zone between W25-W65. So, in case RNC convention goes sour, people can get out quick. Hopefully there is still plans to enhance the East-bound/in-bound go slow. (I haven't ridden East bound in that area, since before the bus-bridge, so I might be out-of-date).

 

The May 8 timetable offers no schedule reduction eastbound from Hopkins Airport to Tower City. It's still 29 minutes.

 

The westbound schedule was in fact reduced by 3 minutes from 30 minutes to 27.

 

Smartcard/smartphone tickets: Stay tuned. Watch for an announcement of a pilot project coming soon.

 

 

Joe C has announced this week that a six month "flash pass" mobile farecard pilot program will be rolling out in June or July through Passport (https://passportinc.com/). Also, work is continuing with Xerox on a smartcard. They still have a number of kinks that need to be worked out.

 

I assume we'll be getting more info about those in the near future.

hey JetDoG,

 

I'd like to send you a PM but your inbox is full and can't accept new messages. (Not sure how else to get your attention ;)

You can reach him at [email protected]

 

I saw that on an earlier page in this thread :)

And in any case, as he mentioned in the "suggestions to improve RTA's website" thread, he's on vacation this week.

And in any case, as he mentioned in the "suggestions to improve RTA's website" thread, he's on vacation this week.

 

What? Everyone doesn't constantly monitor UrbanOhio, even on vacations?!

 

Smartcard/smartphone tickets: Stay tuned. Watch for an announcement of a pilot project coming soon.

 

 

Joe C has announced this week that a six month "flash pass" mobile farecard pilot program will be rolling out in June or July through Passport (https://passportinc.com/). Also, work is continuing with Xerox on a smartcard. They still have a number of kinks that need to be worked out.

 

I assume we'll be getting more info about those in the near future.

 

Great news!

I'm guessing RTA is stuck working with Xerox because those crappy machines still have some useful life remaining. Too bad. I'll never understand why there isn't more standardization among transit agencies procuring equipment like this. Is there really anything unique about RTA's needs?

I'm guessing RTA is stuck working with Xerox because those crappy machines still have some useful life remaining. Too bad. I'll never understand why there isn't more standardization among transit agencies procuring equipment like this. Is there really anything unique about RTA's needs?

 

I have a feeling it something to do with money.  You can probably follow it from lobbyist to politician to "consultant."  The entire process is likely formed through funding that only allows for "research" for a new system, rather than just buying one off the shelf.

Based on the machines, I would have to say yes- the average RTA rider must be 3.5 feet tall, hard of hearing, and understands the words "increment" and "decrement".  You can see why this required radical design solutions.

^^ Exactly! I'll just add that they also must walk around with a constant supply of exact change in their pockets and have time to kill combined with the patience of a saint if they're buying multiple tickets.

I've never understood how we can have Diebold based right up the road, and we couldn't get them to come up with a slick, digital, ATM-looking fare POP machine.  It's not rocket science.  Put money in.  X number of choices.  Card comes out.

According to Litt's latest PD article RTA has received a $150,000 grant from the Cleveland Foundation and $357,000 from NOACA for art installments along the Red Line.  While this is no doubt a terrific visual improvement, I can't help but notice the immense amount of trash that still persists alongside the tracks.

 

Yes, I know there are hurdles to clearing up this problem.

 

Yet after so many years it's time for someone to step up and take responsibility. This is deplorable. It's unacceptable. It's depressing that the first and lasting impression that many visitors will get is that Cleveland is like some third world city, swimming in its own trash.

Here are a couple of RTA's new video ads that are part of the new #iGORTA marketing campaign:

 

 

 

 

Those were cute. I looked at that design agency's Vimeo feed, and it looks like they've done some other work for RTA that I'd never seen (I moved here last year).

 

Tribe fan's thoughts before crossing the turnstyle:

Thoughts while waiting for the bus:

Thoughts on which seat to take:

 

Spending 20% less on your car:

Carbon footprint:

Win an iPad:

Way too cutesy and light on information (in fact, there's no useful information at all in these commercials).  For the hundreds of thousands RTA is spending each year for these useless ads, why not spend money to keeping the Waterfront Line running while the Flats East Bank continues to open so as to generate a ridership base?

Re: ads. I don't think its a waste of money. Every industry has to do some form of marketing. Probably even just percentage budgeted. Sure, word of mouth, and people's innate understandings of things should be enough to get them to try transit, and/or use it regularly. There are a bunch of companies relocating to downtown, and workers are probably nervous about rush hour traffic, or price of parking, compared to where they used to be located. (Maybe you only get reimbursed $50/mo from company, to use for any of parking, RTA pass, bike share, so you have to atleast consider, hey will I consider riding). Maybe "choice riders" are concerned about "people who ride transit". For most part, my experience is that normal people ride transit. Some routes, and at some times of the day, you get different crowds. An RTA ad that shows that someone is riding, and picking up cannoli's to go to their grandmother's route is enough to not be nervous about the whole system. Or, for other uses, just use rapid to get to the ballpark. Anyways, more riders = more revenue.

 

 

Re: Waterfront. We actually had a legit reason to ride the waterfront this weekend, and did so. Sunday was beautiful, and we had a friend in from out of town. Took Red line from W117 to Ohio City, explored there, then walked across Lorain/Carnegie, then strolled about through the city. From the mall/convention center overlooking the lake/amtrak/browns/science/rock&roll. It is unfortunate that from that spot, there is no walking path to get down there to the lakefront. (off topic).

 

Anyways, we then walked through the warehouse district, then down to Flats East Bank, which was totally a delight. Bars/restaurants / day time life going on. The waterfront/boardwalk along the cuyahoga was a great place. Boats were going up and down the river, boats were docking, metroparks water taxi going on, people in boats dancing to music, bicyclists going through, everyone having a good time. Once we were ready to head back, we asked ourselves if we wanted to walk back to Tower City, or catch waterfront back to Tower City.  RTA's challenge isn't to keep waterfront running late to attract riders, RTA needs to have the waterfront line service regular enough to attract riders. From that point, its a 15 minute walk to Tower City. For people to be like yeah, best way to Flats East Bank is the rapid, then you need to ensure it will be less than 15 minutes end-to-end, and that includes waiting. If you could somehow guarantee 5 minute waits along the waterfront, then that is worth catching. Or, perhaps have a digital sign from FEB station that shows how many minutes until the next train for each direction, visible from the FEB bars. (Do I grab another round, or walk to catch the next train). When we took the waterfront line back to TC, the waterfront train turned off and dwelled once it got to TC, people transferred to a center-track train to go East bound on green/blue. This is probably fodder for the RTA-dreams section of this forum, but if waterfront could run more regularly, and perhaps this could be accomplished by extending past South Harbor/MuniLot to some type of loop, and then just keep circuiting the CBD with 4 vehicles, hitting the 5 minute headways. I doubt electricity is the main factor in cost of running this service, but rather operators wages. And wages are better spent constantly in motion, versus not in motion.

One can also dream that GCRTA would someday welcome the overtures by global transportation equipment/management corporation like Siemens and Bombardier to take over the operation, maintenance and re-equipping of the Cleveland rail system. GCRTA would pay the winning firm a fixed rate over a multi-year period that also includes acquiring new a rail fleet and giving the company responsibility over the electrical system -- including generating electricity from new, more cost-effective sources (including possibly Lake Erie wind power). Perhaps the rail network's power systems could even serve a distributive capacity to the metro area from the lake?

 

Such ideas are apparently off the table. I hope GCRTA will someday embrace this concept, or something like it.

(Sorry to keep chiming in). Its easy to argue with fear, of services getting cut, fares going up, loss of jobs, failure to invest in the future.

 

But, if some successful transit horizontally integrated expert were to throw up some figures, and perhaps even some ads of their own, then you'd get some mind share, and maybe a seat at the table. Such as, we're XYZ Corp, we run metros in these X cities, on average we've seen Y% cost reduction, and fleet MTBF decrease Z% with modern vehicles, and preventative maintenance. We have super track replacement gizmo's that replace X ballasts per hour. Additionally we can optimize routes to increase frequency and coverage, increasing fairbox recovery rate. We then propose the following capital expenses to add routes A, B, C, and then extend lines D, E, F, which would forecast us to run at annual surpluses, allowing for more service expansion. Show something like that, or something like it, and you'll be hard pressed to argue against. Otherwise, your suggestion almost sounds analogous to leasing the turnpike. Yeah, it sounds good on paper in some dimensions (using 75 year concrete for a 75 year lease), but would the operator actually have your best interest in mind? Maybe another thing to mention, is that for some projects, you find yourself interacting with the consultants too much. If you just gave the project to the consultants, it would be their responsibility to do the whole thing more efficiently. I'm also half-tempted to say whichever group can produce plastic auto-reloadable tap&pay farecards should just win the bid, without further questions.

 

I recall the DC Metro has lots of ads near government buildings from defense/aircraft multi-nationals. If you see the word Lockheed Martin enough times, you'll atleast consider our proposal.

Re: ads. I don't think its a waste of money. Every industry has to do some form of marketing. Probably even just percentage budgeted. Sure, word of mouth, and people's innate understandings of things should be enough to get them to try transit, and/or use it regularly. There are a bunch of companies relocating to downtown, and workers are probably nervous about rush hour traffic, or price of parking, compared to where they used to be located. (Maybe you only get reimbursed $50/mo from company, to use for any of parking, RTA pass, bike share, so you have to atleast consider, hey will I consider riding). Maybe "choice riders" are concerned about "people who ride transit". For most part, my experience is that normal people ride transit. Some routes, and at some times of the day, you get different crowds. An RTA ad that shows that someone is riding, and picking up cannoli's to go to their grandmother's route is enough to not be nervous about the whole system. Or, for other uses, just use rapid to get to the ballpark. Anyways, more riders = more revenue.

 

 

Re: Waterfront. We actually had a legit reason to ride the waterfront this weekend, and did so. Sunday was beautiful, and we had a friend in from out of town. Took Red line from W117 to Ohio City, explored there, then walked across Lorain/Carnegie, then strolled about through the city. From the mall/convention center overlooking the lake/amtrak/browns/science/rock&roll. It is unfortunate that from that spot, there is no walking path to get down there to the lakefront. (off topic).

 

Anyways, we then walked through the warehouse district, then down to Flats East Bank, which was totally a delight. Bars/restaurants / day time life going on. The waterfront/boardwalk along the cuyahoga was a great place. Boats were going up and down the river, boats were docking, metroparks water taxi going on, people in boats dancing to music, bicyclists going through, everyone having a good time. Once we were ready to head back, we asked ourselves if we wanted to walk back to Tower City, or catch waterfront back to Tower City.  RTA's challenge isn't to keep waterfront running late to attract riders, RTA needs to have the waterfront line service regular enough to attract riders. From that point, its a 15 minute walk to Tower City. For people to be like yeah, best way to Flats East Bank is the rapid, then you need to ensure it will be less than 15 minutes end-to-end, and that includes waiting. If you could somehow guarantee 5 minute waits along the waterfront, then that is worth catching. Or, perhaps have a digital sign from FEB station that shows how many minutes until the next train for each direction, visible from the FEB bars. (Do I grab another round, or walk to catch the next train). When we took the waterfront line back to TC, the waterfront train turned off and dwelled once it got to TC, people transferred to a center-track train to go East bound on green/blue. This is probably fodder for the RTA-dreams section of this forum, but if waterfront could run more regularly, and perhaps this could be accomplished by extending past South Harbor/MuniLot to some type of loop, and then just keep circuiting the CBD with 4 vehicles, hitting the 5 minute headways. I doubt electricity is the main factor in cost of running this service, but rather operators wages. And wages are better spent constantly in motion, versus not in motion.

 

You raise good points about the WFL.  But again note that RTA says that cutting back on the WFL would net RTA about $300K/year which is roughly the cost of these ads.

 

However, I still don't like these ads; not for the money that's apparently being spent for them.  This is not a commercial for Buffalo Wild Wings.  RTA has a budget-locked public agency that's (should be) trying do a public service in luring people onto buses and trains while, hopefully, reducing things like smog and sprawl.  Their audience is people who have options (nee: cars), because those who don't have them need little convincing to use transit.  The audience is intelligent and would likely respond to ads that don't pander like RTA's current ads do.

 

How does a video of an attractive female at a bus stop with a goofy voice-over saying how easy it is to board a bus convince anybody?  How about statistics like, say, the Texas A&M study noting the millions of man-hours lost in people stuck in traffic driving to work?  What about studies noting the increase in stress and possible cardiology issues related to driving?  ... on a more practical level, why not focus on individual services and what the advantage is to riding these: focus on RTA's crown jewels: the Rapid, the HL, the CSU-55s, Park 'N Ride, the downtown trolley's, etc?  Why not talk about the advantages to riding trains in from outer areas and using the Waterfront Line to connect with the expanding Flats establishment (or, as the Metroparks video notes, how the new water taxi dock is steps away from the Flats East Bank Station?) 

 

RTA written literature pounds home the fact that there are 8,000 free parking stops at Rapid stations, and another couple thousand at Park 'N Ride lots where RTA freeway Flyer buses zip into downtown.  Why can't this information be in the ads along with video of commuters parking and riding as they a not-so-goofy but factual voice-over is delivering the facts? 

 

RTA's TV and radio ads speak to their customer base as if they were children.

 

 

RTA's TV and radio ads speak to their customer base as if they were children.

 

This is common among monopolies and government agencies, it's not just an RTA thing.

 

Since it's tough to measure the impact of ads on ridership, and politically easy to justify having a marketing department, there's no real external feedback.

 

Plus, there's likely a fear of political pushback against the kinds of changes that would attract people with options.  So stuff like this is seen as "doing something" when it really isn't.

Those were cute. I looked at that design agency's Vimeo feed, and it looks like they've done some other work for RTA that I'd never seen (I moved here last year).

 

Tribe fan's thoughts before crossing the turnstyle:

 

I actually kinda like the videos. Except at the end of this one there was an opportunity to differentiate how to swipe the 5 ride card vs. one ride card. I actually did get yelled at a few weeks ago for not knowing this lol.

^ The problem there is that there are in fact two different ways to swipe a farecard.

^In fairness, I could only pull the ad with the woman at the bus stop and the "voice" talking about how easy it is.  The other vimeo videos would pull up on my computer.  But this ad was consistent with the goofy radio ads I've heard (same voice-over) talking about "The Riiiiide" ... I could stick a finger down my throat with those...

Keep RTA's Waterfront Line at full service for the Flats' continued vitality: Adam Fishman (Opinion)

 

By Guest Columnist/cleveland.com

on June 04, 2016 at 7:56 AM, updated June 04, 2016 at 7:58 AM

 

Cleveland's Waterfront Line is shown at the West Third Street Station in this 2014 file photo from the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority. RTA has proposed cutting the line's evening hours but Adam Fishman writes that would be a mistake given renewed economic activity in the area.

 

Connectivity is one of downtown Cleveland's greatest assets, in large part thanks to the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority. As Cleveland continues to grow and prosper, this asset will only continue to rise in its level of importance as both an economic tool and as a need for the residents in the neighborhood. This is why maintaining full services to the RTA's Waterfront Line in the face of budget cuts is so important to the Flats and downtown as a whole.

 

While we are aware that RTA is facing ongoing decreases in funding from the state of Ohio, maintaining public transit services to downtown's waterfront neighborhoods is absolutely necessary. 

 

Currently, the Waterfront Line exists as the only public transit connection from bustling downtown to the East Bank of the Flats and from the Flats to North Coast Harbor. The Waterfront Line operates every 15 minutes from approximately 6:45 a.m. to midnight on weekdays, and from 9 a.m. to midnight on weekends,  connecting residents and visitors to entertainment and dining options.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/opinion/index.ssf/2016/06/keeping_rtas_waterfront_line_a.html#incart_river_home

Cleveland, the city or the metro, is not growing. Why not start from an honest place.

Cleveland, the city or the metro, is not growing. Why not start from an honest place.

 

Neither is St Louis and its rail lines attract more riders than Cleveland.  This isn't a population issue; the culprit in Cleveland is sprawl and the WFL's limited and badly planned route.

Cleveland, the city or the metro, is not growing. Why not start from an honest place.

 

Neither is St Louis and its rail lines attract more riders than Cleveland.  This isn't a population issue; the culprit in Cleveland is sprawl and the WFL's limited and badly planned route.

 

St. Louis' rail lines are also 14 miles longer than Cleveland's in total milage: 46 vs. 32 (un-duplicated) miles.  St. Louis' system is also newer: first opened 1993; last major extension: 2006; vs. Cleveland: 1913, last extension major extension: 1968 (the 2.2 mile WFL opened in 1996).  It's understandable that a newer system is still attracting growth vs. an older system like Cleveland's, where most of the areas the rail lines are built are either built out or decaying...

 

This despite the fact that both cities are similar Rust Belt towns of similar size and density.  Metro St. Louis is a bit bigger even though its central city is slightly smaller in area and population than Cleveland.

Cleveland, the city or the metro, is not growing. Why not start from an honest place.

 

Neither is St Louis and its rail lines attract more riders than Cleveland.  This isn't a population issue; the culprit in Cleveland is sprawl and the WFL's limited and badly planned route.

 

Ummmm.......St. Louis itself is only 10% of the population of its metro area, Cleveland is 19%.  Sounds like it's even more sprawled there.

Cleveland, the city or the metro, is not growing. Why not start from an honest place.

 

Neither is St Louis and its rail lines attract more riders than Cleveland.  This isn't a population issue; the culprit in Cleveland is sprawl and the WFL's limited and badly planned route.

 

Ummmm.......St. Louis itself is only 10% of the population of its metro area, Cleveland is 19%.  Sounds like it's even more sprawled there.

I couldn't find numbers to prove this, but I believe St. Louis has a much larger economy, thus much more employment, which is one of the primary drivers of transit use.

Cleveland is bigger.

 

Metropolitan GDP, $Billions

 

          2012 2013         2014

Cleveland 148.2 152.4 157.1

St. Louis 142.0 145.0 150.0

 

I think it's way more simple than that.  The rail there is newer and built to go where the people currently are (or at least where TOD is feasible).  Many of our rail stations are in places that are tough to build around.

Cleveland, the city or the metro, is not growing. Why not start from an honest place.

 

Neither is St Louis and its rail lines attract more riders than Cleveland.  This isn't a population issue; the culprit in Cleveland is sprawl and the WFL's limited and badly planned route.

 

Ummmm.......St. Louis itself is only 10% of the population of its metro area, Cleveland is 19%.  Sounds like it's even more sprawled there.

 

Ummmm....St Louis has better planned light-rail system so, even with its sprawl, it's serving more riders than Cleveland's.  Cleveland's rail lines were badly planned, for the most part, since the get go.  The Green/Blue lines were designed for Shaker Hts. residents 100 years ago, a time when people there went to work downtown.  The Red Line, for the most part, runs in out of the way rail beds and on the west side, the 1960s extension from W 117th-Brookpark were designed as commuter stations with large parking lots.  This has gone the way of the light-rail lines, people don't work and commute downtown like they used to.  The WFL, well, that speaks for itself.  The WFL's latest introduction in 2013 has attracted a whopping 387 riders/day.  Bad design.  Poor fare structure for use between Tower City and Muni Lot; restricting this may bump ridership but the WFL needs to connect or loop directly through the CBD and head to the west side as well.  Otherwise, the WFL will continue to be an embarrassment.