It is not true that only Cuyahoga County residents fund RTA. Its main funding source is a dedicated one-percent sales tax, which is paid by anyone, regardless of where they live, who buys any taxable goods or services in Cuyahoga County.

 

So it's funded by a sales tax that is, again, only in Cuyahoga County and largely paid for by Cuyahoga County residents. That's a little better than other alternatives, but it's still not enough IMO.

You know, Uber does it.

 

Perhaps they could up the price for daily passes on certain days, with the monthly passes still working and still costing the same.

 

Actually I was thinking of Uber when that suggestion came to mind.

I was amazed to see open metered spaces on some streets, although 1-hour parking isn't a good way to see a parade. Is there a reason why the "nuCLEus" lot bounded by Prospect, East 4th and Huron was virtually empty?

The Rapid is largely used by Cuyahoga County residents. It would be great to get more tourists to visit the area and pay the 1% tax but then again they are now interlopers on the RTA system when it gets busy, according to some.

When we got to Farnsleigh at about 9a

 

Boarding a train at 9AM for an 11AM start super parade is like showing up at the airport 25 minutes before an international departure with 5 pieces of luggage and expecting to get on without an issue.

 

We were up at 5AM and lucky enough to have a drop-off ride downtown. When we did Macys we were up at 4AM and we had a hotel on 7th Av.

 

Not saying RTA couldn't have handled things better but it was clear this would be huge event when people started taking spots the night before.

 

People needed to be on the first bus or train out even if it meant getting up at an ungodly hour. Until we got the ride we were going to get up at 4AM to get the first bus off of Ridge. And we didn't arrive in Cleveland until Midnight the night before.

 

I understand that, but we were not dead set on seeing the parade, especially given the crowd and the lack of ability to move around a lot on foot.  We thought we may catch some of it but really wanted to see the rally.

The Rapid is largely used by Cuyahoga County residents. It would be great to get more tourists to visit the area and pay the 1% tax but then again they are now interlopers on the RTA system when it gets busy, according to some.

 

They're not interlopers, but they also shouldn't bump taxpaying residents. Do you see any problem with my solution for an alternate pricing structure on really busy days? Or do you think this current free riding (get it?) situation is okay?

The Rapid is largely used by Cuyahoga County residents. It would be great to get more tourists to visit the area and pay the 1% tax but then again they are now interlopers on the RTA system when it gets busy, according to some.

 

They're not interlopers, but they also shouldn't bump taxpaying residents. Do you see any problem with my solution for an alternate pricing structure on really busy days? Or do you think this current free riding (get it?) situation is okay?

 

Is the 1% RTA sales tax applicable to only county residents?  Are non-county residents exempt from paying this tax? 

 

The number of taxpayers paying any taxes in Cuyahoga County is decreasing.  The county and city needs to increase its tax base by attracting residents, jobs, visitors, tourists etc.

 

The RTA needs to handle busier days; yesterday was a once in a lifetime event.  St Paddy's Day and some big sporting events are considered busier days.  No system can handle that large of a single day passenger increase.  People were told not to drive and to use RTA.  Turned out that driving was much easier; RTA rapid lines were hours long.

RTA was absolutely atrocious yesterday, and I'm not prone to give them a bye.  Yes, RTA like the City and everybody else had to act on the fly from the time the Cavs won the title Sunday night until Wednesday, but RTA could have done waaaaaay better than they did.

 

I'm sorry, my friend, but, frankly, that they were able to step up and handle a day of over 500,000 ridership, considering the funding situation (not just operating, but insufficient capital to fully maintain the rolling stock we have), was nothing short of amazing..

 

Are there things they could have done differently, lessons learned for next time?  Absolutely.  Hindsight is always better.

 

Do I sometimes criticize RTA for various reasons, including not always making the best use of the limited resource available?  Yes.

 

Can I fault them for the job they did Wednesday?  No.  They were frickin' AWESOME.

 

Clearly lines were atrocious for the Rapid...but I do think things would've been much worse if everyone would've driven instead. With the number of streets that were closed, parking would've been virtually impossible. I still don't blame officials for telling people to take RTA.

 

Wasn't going to be a breeze either way. I'm just hoping that since this exposed the systems inadequacies people will finally put up a fight.

The Rapid is largely used by Cuyahoga County residents. It would be great to get more tourists to visit the area and pay the 1% tax but then again they are now interlopers on the RTA system when it gets busy, according to some.

 

They're not interlopers, but they also shouldn't bump taxpaying residents. Do you see any problem with my solution for an alternate pricing structure on really busy days? Or do you think this current free riding (get it?) situation is okay?

 

Again, it's not a free ride. Why not go full Trump and build a wall around RTA?

 

In all seriousness, RTA should be a tool to attract visitors and not be used to create pricing structures so tourists and non-residents want to avoid the system.

Could it be that they didn't run 3 car trains on the Blue/Green line because of a shortage of supply? Since they are short on supply they probably ran 1 car trains to make service more frequent. If you put all of your eggs in one basket (3 cars at once) the frequency would slow down. The same ideal goes for the Red line. That possibly was their thinking.

 

In regards to the Cuyahoga resident discount I would have to say that would be a bad idea (no disrespect). Cuyahoga residents are the main users of the bus and rail and RTA depends on fares to help fill their financial shortfalls. So if a financially struggling transit agency cuts fares for its main users then they will simply be digging an even larger hole for themselves. Just my thoughts.

 

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

 

 

Is the 1% RTA sales tax applicable to only county residents?  Are non-county residents exempt from paying this tax? 

 

 

Anyone who buys something in Cuyahoga County to which the sales tax applies pays into RTA. With one exception... If you buy a car, you pay the sales tax of your home county, not the tax rate for the county in which you buy the car.

 

BTW, RTA may take another sales tax hit... This time from Medicare payments. This could result in a decrease in sales tax revenue of a few percentage points or several million dollars per year.

Cavaliers parade set ridership record, but not enough to help RTA's budget woes

By Ginger Christ, The Plain Dealer

on June 24, 2016 at 2:40 PM, updated June 24, 2016 at 4:41 PM

CLEVELAND, Ohio --As an estimated 1.3 million people flooded into downtown Wednesday to celebrate the Cavaliers historic win, the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority set its own record.

 

RTA on Wednesday transported about 500,000 people into the city to witness the Cavaliers victory parade. That's 300,000 more people than on a busy day, like a Browns home game day, RTA CEO Joe Calabrese said.

 

"We easily doubled the busiest day in known history for RTA," Calabrese said.

 

Previously, the busiest day on record for RTA was a St. Patrick's Day that fell on a Saturday, he said. On that day, 225,000 people took public transit.

 

MORE:

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2016/06/cavaliers_parade_set_ridership_record_but_not_enough_to_help_rtas_budget_woes.html

They mean 500K unlinked trips, right? So more like they brought 250K people into the city and then back out again?

 

EDIT: or maybe I'm wrong, because I don't see how 500K trips gets you to $1.5M.

The Rapid is largely used by Cuyahoga County residents. It would be great to get more tourists to visit the area and pay the 1% tax but then again they are now interlopers on the RTA system when it gets busy, according to some.

 

They're not interlopers, but they also shouldn't bump taxpaying residents. Do you see any problem with my solution for an alternate pricing structure on really busy days? Or do you think this current free riding (get it?) situation is okay?

 

Is the 1% RTA sales tax applicable to only county residents?  Are non-county residents exempt from paying this tax? 

 

The number of taxpayers paying any taxes in Cuyahoga County is decreasing.  The county and city needs to increase its tax base by attracting residents, jobs, visitors, tourists etc.

 

Of course non-residents still must pay those taxes when they shop in Cuyahoga County. But again, I'm sure if we had access to the numbers, the vast majority of the revenue from that tax comes from Cuyahoga County residents. It would be shocking if that were not the case.

 

As long as taxes are higher here in Cuyahoga County, as long as residents are the ones footing the bill for things like public transit, parks, stadiums (!), that everyone in the region has equal access to, incentives exist for people to move outside of the county.

 

Here's a localized example: I live in a city that has no ice rink. The neighboring suburb has a rink that their residents have paid taxes towards building and maintaining. If I want to go skating there, they will let me, but I must pay a non-resident fee which is greater than what residents pay. There's absolutely no reason why services such as public transit couldn't follow a similar pricing structure.

 

Why would anyone want to live in Cuyahoga County to pay higher taxes and be charged an additional fee (which is the same as non-residents) for the services we're already funding? In terms of attracting visitors, if the RTA charged more for non-residents, especially on its busiest days, you wouldn't really be scaring anyone away.

Again, it's not a free ride.

 

Fares cover roughly 20% of the costs, so when non-residents ride, they're not paying true costs. I have no problem with this in general, except on a day when I want to use the system and my wait is insane because thousands of people from other counties want convenience that the other 364 days of the year they have no interest in supporting and in same cases actively fight.

 

In regards to the Cuyahoga resident discount I would have to say that would be a bad idea (no disrespect). Cuyahoga residents are the main users of the bus and rail and RTA depends on fares to help fill their financial shortfalls. So if a financially struggling transit agency cuts fares for its main users then they will simply be digging an even larger hole for themselves. Just my thoughts.

 

I understand, so in reality it would be a fare increase on non-residents, while resident fares remain the same. Raise it a few bucks, especially on very busy days. Find the equilibrium price so that they can either make lines more reasonable for residents or possibly even make some additional revenue to increase service.

The Rapid is largely used by Cuyahoga County residents. It would be great to get more tourists to visit the area and pay the 1% tax but then again they are now interlopers on the RTA system when it gets busy, according to some.

 

They're not interlopers, but they also shouldn't bump taxpaying residents. Do you see any problem with my solution for an alternate pricing structure on really busy days? Or do you think this current free riding (get it?) situation is okay?

 

Is the 1% RTA sales tax applicable to only county residents?  Are non-county residents exempt from paying this tax? 

 

The number of taxpayers paying any taxes in Cuyahoga County is decreasing.  The county and city needs to increase its tax base by attracting residents, jobs, visitors, tourists etc.

 

Of course non-residents still must pay those taxes when they shop in Cuyahoga County. But again, I'm sure if we had access to the numbers, the vast majority of the revenue from that tax comes from Cuyahoga County residents. It would be shocking if that were not the case.

 

As long as taxes are higher here in Cuyahoga County, as long as residents are the ones footing the bill for things like public transit, parks, stadiums (!), that everyone in the region has equal access to, incentives exist for people to move outside of the county.

 

Here's a localized example: I live in a city that has no ice rink. The neighboring suburb has a rink that their residents have paid taxes towards building and maintaining. If I want to go skating there, they will let me, but I must pay a non-resident fee which is greater than what residents pay. There's absolutely no reason why services such as public transit couldn't follow a similar pricing structure.

 

Why would anyone want to live in Cuyahoga County to pay higher taxes and be charged an additional fee (which is the same as non-residents) for the services we're already funding? In terms of attracting visitors, if the RTA charged more for non-residents, especially on its busiest days, you wouldn't really be scaring anyone away.

 

The comparison of a local, suburban ice rink admission fee to a major, regional transit system is ridiculous. 

 

How would you structure a fare penalty for transit riders based on residency.  Let's see:  for starters, ID checks at the airport?  Then expand it to every station and bus stop in the region.  Please.

All of this is ridiculous.  Our civic leaders need to be lobby the feds and state for funding, so EVERYONE can ride.    It's time to take some money from concrete and put it into our crumbling transit. 

The comparison of a local, suburban ice rink admission fee to a major, regional transit system is ridiculous. 

 

How would you structure a fare penalty for transit riders based on residency.  Let's see:  for starters, ID checks at the airport?  Then expand it to every station and bus stop in the region.  Please.

 

And that's the difficulty. Consider the volume of passengers on some routes and at certain locations. A few years ago, All Aboard Ohio did a study of what activities constituted what percentages of a bus' schedule on RTA's 10-busiest bus routes. We were expecting that the actual travel of a bus would be #1 (which proved to be true), followed by waiting at traffic lights. Instead, #2 was the time the bus spent waiting to board passengers and pay their fares. It comprised 30 percent of an average bus' trip time!

 

RTA's fare-payment process is slow, cumbersome and outdated. Many transit agencies have already adopted smart-card fare systems in which you merely tap on the fare machine to have your fare deducted/recognized. How do you regulate the payment of county vs. non-county resident fares in a timely manner?

The comparison of a local, suburban ice rink admission fee to a major, regional transit system is ridiculous. 

 

How would you structure a fare penalty for transit riders based on residency.  Let's see:  for starters, ID checks at the airport?  Then expand it to every station and bus stop in the region.  Please.

 

I'm sure there are other solutions for making it work, even if the only one you can think of means that the whole idea of actually making non-resident users share more in the burden is somehow "ridiculous."

 

You can't in one breath complain that the county needs to expand its tax base while in another support a policy that clearly puts a larger share of the burden on existing residents who lose out on the benefit of the system on days when many of us would most like to use it.

 

 

How do you regulate the payment of county vs. non-county resident fares in a timely manner?

 

Start with an automatic across-the-board rate hike of a few bucks on days when usage is projected to be the highest. Then, people that don't want to pay the one-day higher fare either buy a fare card IN PERSON the day before or buy a fare card online using a credit/debit card with a valid Cuyahoga County home address. Obviously non-residents could come in and take advantage of the in person discount the day before, but that would require them to make a long drive for minimal savings.

 

I'm sure there are imperfections in the above plan, but it's just one idea to help balance the burden off of Cuyahoga County residents.

How do you regulate the payment of county vs. non-county resident fares in a timely manner?

 

Start with an automatic across-the-board rate hike of a few bucks on days when usage is projected to be the highest. Then, people that don't want to pay the one-day higher fare either buy a fare card IN PERSON the day before or buy a fare card online using a credit/debit card with a valid Cuyahoga County home address. Obviously non-residents could come in and take advantage of the in person discount the day before, but that would require them to make a long drive for minimal savings.

 

I'm sure there are imperfections in the above plan, but it's just one idea to help balance the burden off of Cuyahoga County residents.

 

Just drive and park.  This isn't even a viable idea.  What are the projected highest usage days?  St Pat's Day, Indians opener and hopefully some more championship parades.  Otherwise, this is not going to relieve County residents' RTA sales tax burden.

 

Great for visitors, conventions etc...you pay a penalty fee for not living in Cuyahoga County.

Just drive and park.  This isn't even a viable idea.  What are the projected highest usage days?  St Pat's Day, Indians opener and hopefully some more championship parades.  Otherwise, this is not going to relieve County residents' RTA sales tax burden.

 

Great for visitors, conventions etc...you pay a penalty fee for not living in Cuyahoga County.

 

Of course it's perfectly viable. It's not about completely relieving our sales tax burden, it's about at least making non-residents pay more of their "fare" share on the limited, usually busy occasions they choose to use the system. And the one-time cash infusions can help service run more smoothly on those busy days.

 

And it's pure spin to say that people not living in Cuyahoga County are the ones paying a "penalty fee" with my non-resident fare plan, because at $5 per round-trip pass, they're coming nowhere near covering the full cost of their trip. Unless that price was increased to more than $25, there is no "penalty." But hey, with our county sales tax which applies to everyone, non-residents only need to spend $2000 while in town to make up the difference to more fully cover their trip!

 

If anything, it's Cuyahoga County residents who pay the penalty for having to fund the system at a base level and then pay the exact same fare as non-residents. Again, wouldn't normally be a problem in my opinion except on busy days when we're getting bumped.

Just drive and park.  This isn't even a viable idea.  What are the projected highest usage days?  St Pat's Day, Indians opener and hopefully some more championship parades.  Otherwise, this is not going to relieve County residents' RTA sales tax burden.

 

Great for visitors, conventions etc...you pay a penalty fee for not living in Cuyahoga County.

 

Of course it's perfectly viable. It's not about completely relieving our sales tax burden, it's about at least making non-residents pay more of their "fare" share on the limited, usually busy occasions they choose to use the system. And the one-time cash infusions can help service run more smoothly on those busy days.

 

And it's pure spin to say that people not living in Cuyahoga County are the ones paying a "penalty fee" with my non-resident fare plan, because at $5 per round-trip pass, they're coming nowhere near covering the full cost of their trip. Unless that price was increased to more than $25, there is no "penalty." But hey, with our county sales tax which applies to everyone, non-residents only need to spend $2000 while in town to make up the difference to more fully cover their trip!

 

If anything, it's Cuyahoga County residents who pay the penalty for having to fund the system at a base level and then pay the exact same fare as non-residents. Again, wouldn't normally be a problem in my opinion except on busy days when we're getting bumped.

 

Best of luck in your endeavors.

Just drive and park.  This isn't even a viable idea.  What are the projected highest usage days?  St Pat's Day, Indians opener and hopefully some more championship parades.  Otherwise, this is not going to relieve County residents' RTA sales tax burden.

 

Great for visitors, conventions etc...you pay a penalty fee for not living in Cuyahoga County.

 

Of course it's perfectly viable. It's not about completely relieving our sales tax burden, it's about at least making non-residents pay more of their "fare" share on the limited, usually busy occasions they choose to use the system. And the one-time cash infusions can help service run more smoothly on those busy days.

 

And it's pure spin to say that people not living in Cuyahoga County are the ones paying a "penalty fee" with my non-resident fare plan, because at $5 per round-trip pass, they're coming nowhere near covering the full cost of their trip. Unless that price was increased to more than $25, there is no "penalty." But hey, with our county sales tax which applies to everyone, non-residents only need to spend $2000 while in town to make up the difference to more fully cover their trip!

 

If anything, it's Cuyahoga County residents who pay the penalty for having to fund the system at a base level and then pay the exact same fare as non-residents. Again, wouldn't normally be a problem in my opinion except on busy days when we're getting bumped.

 

You'll spend more managing and tracking where people live than you'll make at the fair box with this stupid idea.

You'll spend more managing and tracking where people live than you'll make at the fair box with this stupid idea.

 

Did you look at the details of my suggestion? It really wouldn't be all that expensive, I think it would just require a few tweaks in programming on the website and at fare boxes.

 

Probably wouldn't cost more than the salaries for the apparent four member social media team that GCRTA employs:

 

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2016/06/rta_social_media_guru_gets_an.html

Best of luck in your endeavors.

 

I'm really glad that public transportation supporters have no problem with those that have abandoned the central urban area get a free pass. RTA probably deserves its lack of funding if it really isn't willing to explore alternative options to pass costs along to other users.

 

But nah, I won't try that hard to change things, because it's low on my list of priorities. I'll just continue to use the system a half dozen times a year and be more aware next time RTA funding issues arise, including making sure that others have all of the facts about the current funding situation that screws county residents.

^I think the best way to address this is for the state to chip in a bit for RTA's operations. Total devolution like we currently have doesn't make much sense given our multi-county metro regions. It shouldn't be all (join RTA) or nothing. And it's not like Ohio's rural counties are paying for their transport infrastructure through their own tax collections.

Best of luck in your endeavors.

 

I'm really glad that public transportation supporters have no problem with those that have abandoned the central urban area get a free pass. RTA probably deserves its lack of funding if it really isn't willing to explore alternative options to pass costs along to other users.

 

But nah, I won't try that hard to change things, because it's low on my list of priorities. I'll just continue to use the system a half dozen times a year and be more aware next time RTA funding issues arise, including making sure that others have all of the facts about the current funding situation that screws county residents.

 

Make the City and County more attractive so people want to live in either.  I know you blame ''social forces'' and those that abandoned the urban core; btw, there was a good reason for this, eventhough you live in a suburb yourself.

 

Regardless, the city, county and region needs job growth.  It's pretty simple.  Employment growth will retain the existing population and attract new residents. 

 

I just read the manufacturing employment growth for cities 2015.  Of the 70 ''large cities'', Cleveland area ranked 50th.  Grand Rapids, MI #1, with Detroit and Warren MI in the top 10.  Cincinnati was #11; Columbus ranked higher than Cleveland.

 

Cleveland was a manufacturing hub and is now a laggard in this sector, the base of its economy.  The Midwest is seeing many metros in the top ranks of manufacturing growth; not Cleveland.

 

It's nice to have a diversified economy but with Cleveland's manufacturing history and alleged infrastructure, the region is not pulling off growth in its bedrock industry.  In fact, the Cleveland metro rank dropped by 10 over 2014.

 

Instead of complaining about the occasional outside the county residents using RTA (St. Pat's Day, Browns games etc), the focus needs to be on attracting residents to the region, county and city.  The RTA sales tax might not have to be raised then; raising the tax will result even more people relocating out of or provide an incentive to purchase outside Cuyahoga County.  The population is sprawling outside Cuyahoga County and those residents in the suburbs can easily cross the county line to make purchases, and they will.

Make the City and County more attractive so people want to live in either.  I know you blame ''social forces'' and those that abandoned the urban core; btw, there was a good reason for this, eventhough you live in a suburb yourself.

 

Regardless, the city, county and region needs job growth.  It's pretty simple.  Employment growth will retain the existing population and attract new residents. 

 

I just read the manufacturing employment growth for cities 2015.  Of the 70 ''large cities'', Cleveland area ranked 50th.  Grand Rapids, MI #1, with Detroit and Warren MI in the top 10.  Cincinnati was #11; Columbus ranked higher than Cleveland.

 

Cleveland was a manufacturing hub and is now a laggard in this sector, the base of its economy.  The Midwest is seeing many metros in the top ranks of manufacturing growth; not Cleveland.

 

It's nice to have a diversified economy but with Cleveland's manufacturing history and alleged infrastructure, the region is not pulling off growth in its bedrock industry.  In fact, the Cleveland metro rank dropped by 10 over 2014.

 

Instead of complaining about the occasional outside the county residents using RTA (St. Pat's Day, Browns games etc), the focus needs to be on attracting residents to the region, county and city.  The RTA sales tax might not have to be raised then; raising the tax will result even more people relocating out of or provide an incentive to purchase outside Cuyahoga County.  The population is sprawling outside Cuyahoga County and those residents in the suburbs can easily cross the county line to make purchases, and they will.

 

I don't really disagree with anything in your post except one minor point and one major point:

 

Minor point: I've always lived in the suburbs, in fact, I've lived in the same inner-ring community my entire life, so I haven't run anywhere.

 

Major point: I have no idea what you're talking about regarding "social forces" unless your referencing another conversation. But in terms of making the city and county more attractive, having a loophole where people can live in parts of this region and yet pay much less for services that they use is going to lead at least some of those people and businesses to move to the place where they can take advantage of that situation. For many people/business, if the choice comes down to Strongsville vs. Brunswick, Solon vs. Twinsburg, or Willoughby vs. Mayfield, this region has policies in place that actually incentivize these people to choose the community that is not in Cuyahoga County! So while the RTA discussion may be a relatively minor issue, it's far from the only situation where non-residents benefit from services being significantly subsidized by Cuyahoga County residents. If you want to attract more people to the city and county, eliminating or finding ways to close these loopholes is extremely important.

You're one of those that abandoned the ''urban core''.  Just sayin'.

 

Consider that what are now called ''inner ring'' suburbs offered many of the same incentives and reasons to move out of Cleveland.  Now, these same suburbs are the victim of sprawl.

 

Keep in mind that many people outside the county have little reason, if ever, to use the RTA.  Consider as well the tax revenue created by these same individuals visiting the city, spending $$, most never using the RTA, thereby not taking advantage of the RTA yet contributing to its tax.

Can we just end this debate with an answer to this question: Is there a current major or mid-major transit system that charges different fares based on the residence of the person purchasing the fare? I personally don't know of any but I haven't traveled much.

 

I understand the sentiment behind the idea. But implementation seems way too difficult. The best you could hope for would maybe be a switch to smart cards, with a large increase in fares, then use the smart card system to provide discounts to Cuyahoga county residents?  E.g. purchase a card, register it to an individual as a county resident. All trips purchased via that card then get the discounted rate.

Can we just end this debate with an answer to this question: Is there a current major or mid-major transit system that charges different fares based on the residence of the person purchasing the fare? I personally don't know of any but I haven't traveled much.

 

I understand the sentiment behind the idea. But implementation seems way too difficult. The best you could hope for would maybe be a switch to smart cards, with a large increase in fares, then use the smart card system to provide discounts to Cuyahoga county residents?  E.g. purchase a card, register it to an individual as a county resident. All trips purchased via that card then get the discounted rate.

 

No transit I'm aware of offers discounts based soley on residency.  D.C. for example charges by the length of a trip and I think BART in S.F. does as well but otherwise it's a flat fee.  The plan proposed is a penalty tax for using RTA and not being a county resident. 

 

Just attract residents and visitors with $$ whether they use RTA or not to spend money in the city and county.

 

I've lived in the same inner-ring community my entire life, so I haven't run anywhere.

 

I don't like insular attitudes. Some of us didn't run. Not all people left because they hated Cleveland. Some did it for work and some (like myself) had personal issues to deal with.

 

Anyway, this debate has nothing to do with RTA.

 

It has to do with personal planning of a major event. No amount of a fare increase is going to be enough to chase people away from a once in half-century victory parade so you can get up at 8AM and plan to be downtown by 11AM using the Rapid.

 

I'm in total agreement of dropping the subject.

 

No transit I'm aware of offers discounts based soley on residency.  D.C. for example charges by the length of a trip and I think BART in S.F. does as well but otherwise it's a flat fee.  The plan proposed is a penalty tax for using RTA and not being a county resident. 

 

 

Hi, I can think of a few examples where fares are discounted or certain types of fares are limited based on being a resident.

 

UTA (Salt Lake area) offers discount programs to local cities/municipalities who want to partner in order to provide discounted fares. The only participating local government at this point is Salt Lake City itself which partners with UTA to offer a 50 percent discount off a monthly pass. The way it breaks down is the city covers 30 percent of the cost, UTA covers 20 percent, and the rider pays the other half of a monthly pass. (I'm an occasional lurker with a brand new account so I can't post links, but if you just search for "hive pass" you will find the landing page.) This brings a monthly pass for a resident of Salt Lake City to $42, and an additional discount of $29 is provided if the resident purchases an annual pass, bringing the annual cost to $429. In order to sign up, a resident has to bring a photo ID and a couple bills with a qualifying address to the city's treasurer office or one of two utility offices.

 

There is also Tallinn, Estonia which charges regular fares for non-residents but makes a card available to residents for a couple euros which allows free use of any transit route or vehicle. (I'm not sure how the residency requirement is enforced.) Dubai's RTA only offers monthly passes to Blue Nol card holders, and the Blue cards are only available to residents.

 

Not saying that any of those necessarily make sense for RTA/Cuyahoga County... just that it isn't totally unprecedented.

You're one of those that abandoned the ''urban core''.  Just sayin'.

 

How could I possibly have abandoned a place I never actually lived? Amazing logic.

 

 

Keep in mind that many people outside the county have little reason, if ever, to use the RTA.  Consider as well the tax revenue created by these same individuals visiting the city, spending $$, most never using the RTA, thereby not taking advantage of the RTA yet contributing to its tax.

 

And most of these people hop on the Rapid at one of the outermost terminals and ride it straight downtown. Few, if any, are spending $2000 per visit per capita, though, so again, they're not paying enough to cover the remaining portion of the cost of their trip. So again, a little simple mathematical analysis shows that the vast majority of Cuyahoga County residents (except for maybe the small percentage that own businesses downtown) are not seeing any kind of a net financial benefit from subsidizing this method of transportation for non-residents.

 

The plan proposed is a penalty tax for using RTA and not being a county resident.

 

You keep using the word penalty but I'm beginning to believe that you don't understand what it means when you use it in that context.

 

Just attract residents and visitors with $$ whether they use RTA or not to spend money in the city and county.

 

Why would anyone choose to reside in Cuyahoga County when they can live in a border suburb and receive almost all of the benefits of Cuyahoga County residents without paying many of the additional taxes? Again, you're accepting a status quo that goes against what claim to be a goal.

 

Forget about all of these mysterious other forces that you seem to think justify people moving out of the county, even if all things were equal, it's cheaper with the current RTA funding structure to choose Avon Lake instead of Bay Village or Macedonia instead of Brecksville.

I've lived in the same inner-ring community my entire life, so I haven't run anywhere.

 

I don't like insular attitudes. Some of us didn't run. Not all people left because they hated Cleveland. Some did it for work and some (like myself) had personal issues to deal with.

 

Anyway, this debate has nothing to do with RTA.

 

It has to do with personal planning of a major event. No amount of a fare increase is going to be enough to chase people away from a once in half-century victory parade so you can get up at 8AM and plan to be downtown by 11AM using the Rapid.

 

I'm in total agreement of dropping the subject.

 

FYI, I wasn't saying that anyone here ran, I was responding to PHS who was implying that I ran.

 

This debate has everything to do with RTA and how it could be funded in a fairer way that actually might make sense. In terms fare increases not chasing people away, if that's true that they would had the same amount of riders with a slightly higher fare, they would have had a few hundred thousand dollars more to at least possibly help service move more quickly and smoothly on that one day (and other busy days).

 

You arguing that a 3 hour wait is reasonable is unreasonable and suggesting that it is my fault is ridiculous, but it's not really the discussion I care to have at the moment.

Meet Jose Feliciano Jr., the Man Behind the RTA Twitter Feed on Cavs Parade Day

 

Jose Feliciano Jr. is an external affairs administrator for the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority. That's a title which encompasses a number of responsibilities for the two-year RTA veteran.

 

For the first 18-20 months of his employment, Feliciano participated in a management development program during which he rotated among the agency's various departments. He even learned how to drive a bus. Now, he works for the communications team, and one of his duties is social media management.

Meet Jose Feliciano Jr., the Man Behind the RTA Twitter Feed on Cavs Parade Day

 

Jose Feliciano Jr. is an external affairs administrator for the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority. That's a title which encompasses a number of responsibilities for the two-year RTA veteran.

 

For the first 18-20 months of his employment, Feliciano participated in a management development program during which he rotated among the agency's various departments. He even learned how to drive a bus. Now, he works for the communications team, and one of his duties is social media management.

 

Interesting that Scene does not mention that he likely got the job because his dad is a former prosecutor and is politically powerful.  At least when Kerry McCormack got appointed they mentioned his dad in passing.

Meet Jose Feliciano Jr., the Man Behind the RTA Twitter Feed on Cavs Parade Day

 

Jose Feliciano Jr. is an external affairs administrator for the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority. That's a title which encompasses a number of responsibilities for the two-year RTA veteran.

 

For the first 18-20 months of his employment, Feliciano participated in a management development program during which he rotated among the agency's various departments. He even learned how to drive a bus. Now, he works for the communications team, and one of his duties is social media management.

 

Interesting that Scene does not mention that he likely got the job because his dad is a former prosecutor and is politically powerful.  At least when Kerry McCormack got appointed they mentioned his dad in passing.

 

Children of powerful parents are incapable of getting jobs on their own merit?

Meet Jose Feliciano Jr., the Man Behind the RTA Twitter Feed on Cavs Parade Day

 

Jose Feliciano Jr. is an external affairs administrator for the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority. That's a title which encompasses a number of responsibilities for the two-year RTA veteran.

 

For the first 18-20 months of his employment, Feliciano participated in a management development program during which he rotated among the agency's various departments. He even learned how to drive a bus. Now, he works for the communications team, and one of his duties is social media management.

 

Interesting that Scene does not mention that he likely got the job because his dad is a former prosecutor and is politically powerful.  At least when Kerry McCormack got appointed they mentioned his dad in passing.

 

Children of powerful parents are incapable of getting jobs on their own merit?

 

Not in, especially, this type of job.  It's akin to the misinformed voters you called out for just voting for Irish sounding names, with an initial or so being the difference.  Here we have RTA, just going with the names connected to politicians or the otherwise power players.  That's how Cleveland works.

 

Surprised you, of all people, find this surprising.  The powerful keep their friends, allies and kids employed.

Meet Jose Feliciano Jr., the Man Behind the RTA Twitter Feed on Cavs Parade Day

 

Jose Feliciano Jr. is an external affairs administrator for the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority. That's a title which encompasses a number of responsibilities for the two-year RTA veteran.

 

For the first 18-20 months of his employment, Feliciano participated in a management development program during which he rotated among the agency's various departments. He even learned how to drive a bus. Now, he works for the communications team, and one of his duties is social media management.

 

Interesting that Scene does not mention that he likely got the job because his dad is a former prosecutor and is politically powerful.  At least when Kerry McCormack got appointed they mentioned his dad in passing.

 

Children of powerful parents are incapable of getting jobs on their own merit?

 

That happens, but so does the other thing.  And nepotism has been so pervasive around here that presumptions do arise, fair or not.

Meet Jose Feliciano Jr., the Man Behind the RTA Twitter Feed on Cavs Parade Day

 

Jose Feliciano Jr. is an external affairs administrator for the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority. That's a title which encompasses a number of responsibilities for the two-year RTA veteran.

 

For the first 18-20 months of his employment, Feliciano participated in a management development program during which he rotated among the agency's various departments. He even learned how to drive a bus. Now, he works for the communications team, and one of his duties is social media management.

 

Interesting that Scene does not mention that he likely got the job because his dad is a former prosecutor and is politically powerful.  At least when Kerry McCormack got appointed they mentioned his dad in passing.

 

Children of powerful parents are incapable of getting jobs on their own merit?

 

Social media director for RTA?

 

They are, but Scene in particular is usually pretty good for exposing things that appear to be cronyism.

Meet Jose Feliciano Jr., the Man Behind the RTA Twitter Feed on Cavs Parade Day

 

Jose Feliciano Jr. is an external affairs administrator for the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority. That's a title which encompasses a number of responsibilities for the two-year RTA veteran.

 

For the first 18-20 months of his employment, Feliciano participated in a management development program during which he rotated among the agency's various departments. He even learned how to drive a bus. Now, he works for the communications team, and one of his duties is social media management.

 

Meanwhile, back to on the ground nuts & bolts transit stuff, there's still been no explanation as to why RTA was running 1-car trains on the Shaker lines, and mostly just 2-car trains on the Red Line during Parade Day.  Simply hiding behind the extreme crowds excuse doesn't cut it especially since RTA was encouraging people to use transit beforehand. 

Meet Jose Feliciano Jr., the Man Behind the RTA Twitter Feed on Cavs Parade Day

 

Jose Feliciano Jr. is an external affairs administrator for the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority. That's a title which encompasses a number of responsibilities for the two-year RTA veteran.

 

For the first 18-20 months of his employment, Feliciano participated in a management development program during which he rotated among the agency's various departments. He even learned how to drive a bus. Now, he works for the communications team, and one of his duties is social media management.

 

Meanwhile, back to on the ground nuts & bolts transit stuff, there's still been no explanation as to why RTA was running 1-car trains on the Shaker lines, and mostly just 2-car trains on the Red Line during Parade Day.  Simply hiding behind the extreme crowds excuse doesn't cut it especially since RTA was encouraging people to use transit beforehand. 

 

Here we go again...

Meet Jose Feliciano Jr., the Man Behind the RTA Twitter Feed on Cavs Parade Day

 

Jose Feliciano Jr. is an external affairs administrator for the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority. That's a title which encompasses a number of responsibilities for the two-year RTA veteran.

 

For the first 18-20 months of his employment, Feliciano participated in a management development program during which he rotated among the agency's various departments. He even learned how to drive a bus. Now, he works for the communications team, and one of his duties is social media management.

 

Meanwhile, back to on the ground nuts & bolts transit stuff, there's still been no explanation as to why RTA was running 1-car trains on the Shaker lines, and mostly just 2-car trains on the Red Line during Parade Day.  Simply hiding behind the extreme crowds excuse doesn't cut it especially since RTA was encouraging people to use transit beforehand. 

 

Yep.  That increases the negative impact an order of magnitude.

 

I once had a co-worker challenge me to a one on one football game (with “official quarterback”), running smack for the few days before it.  It turned out he had never actually played the game before, and the results were predictable (except for the part where I was actually faster than him).

 

What I said to him applies here:  "the only reason this counts for much of anything is all the talking you did".

Meet Jose Feliciano Jr., the Man Behind the RTA Twitter Feed on Cavs Parade Day

 

Jose Feliciano Jr. is an external affairs administrator for the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority. That's a title which encompasses a number of responsibilities for the two-year RTA veteran.

 

For the first 18-20 months of his employment, Feliciano participated in a management development program during which he rotated among the agency's various departments. He even learned how to drive a bus. Now, he works for the communications team, and one of his duties is social media management.

 

Meanwhile, back to on the ground nuts & bolts transit stuff, there's still been no explanation as to why RTA was running 1-car trains on the Shaker lines, and mostly just 2-car trains on the Red Line during Parade Day.  Simply hiding behind the extreme crowds excuse doesn't cut it especially since RTA was encouraging people to use transit beforehand.

 

Meanwhile, the quality of employees in leadership/management and an otherwise lackluster City Hall liason, has a direct bearing on how RTA functions generally.

 

Makes sense to the caliber of RTA hires in leadership/management roles: inform the public to use RTA as 1.3 million people pour into downtown without providing the corresponding transit service.

Meanwhile, back to on the ground nuts & bolts transit stuff, there's still been no explanation as to why RTA was running 1-car trains on the Shaker lines, and mostly just 2-car trains on the Red Line during Parade Day.  Simply hiding behind the extreme crowds excuse doesn't cut it especially since RTA was encouraging people to use transit beforehand. 

 

RTA explained via Twitter that day that they ran 1 car trains to maximize frequency. If you want to know what RTA has to say about specific service issue, I recommend following their Twitter feed. You can even ask them questions.

 

I get the frustration about parade day, but unless someone can point to operable equipment sitting idly in the yards on that day or other unambiguous operational mistakes, the complaining just seems like dead horse beating and maybe even yelling at clouds at this point.

Meanwhile, back to on the ground nuts & bolts transit stuff, there's still been no explanation as to why RTA was running 1-car trains on the Shaker lines, and mostly just 2-car trains on the Red Line during Parade Day.  Simply hiding behind the extreme crowds excuse doesn't cut it especially since RTA was encouraging people to use transit beforehand. 

 

RTA explained via Twitter that day that they ran 1 car trains to maximize frequency. If you want to know what RTA has to say about specific service issue, I recommend following their Twitter feed. You can even ask them questions.

 

I get the frustration about parade day, but unless someone can point to operable equipment sitting idly in the yards on that day or other unambiguous operational mistakes, the complaining just seems like dead horse beating and maybe even yelling at clouds at this point.

 

KJP has reported he saw empty CSU line buses headed for the yard.    And you can be assured there were idle train cars...whether or not they were operational is another story. 

 

I can also personally report that RTA announced there would be staffers at Rapid stations selling all day passes and I never saw a single person except a Transit Cop who was beyond frustrated trying to help people. 

I don't want to extend the discussion about RTA's performance on the day of the parade, but I am tired of the endless bashing of a system that I think is well run with limited resources. As previously noted, I took RTA to work that day and had a reasonably good experience. Anyone with even the slightest bit of sense would know that RTA would be strained that day and would not, say, show up at Green Road at 9 a.m. and expect an easy trip to a downtown event scheduled for an 11 a.m. start with an expected attendance of anywhere from 500,000 to more than a million people. RTA has reported that it provided 500,000 rides on that day--more than three times its usual daily passenger count. Imagine if even half of those riders had decided to drive downtown. I wonder what transit systems are set up to handle more than three times their average daily load without showing any signs of strain or without any delays. Let us know if you know of one.