That's true, but there are still viable alternatives than the train line.

 

Uber (without surge) is $5-$6 from Tower City to the East Bank Flats apartments. Add another dollar for every additional passenger, and it becomes a very cheap and viable option.

 

Tower City is .8 miles to the East Bank Flats apartments. That isn't such a bad walk at all.

 

It would be nice to have a more operable train line, but I've just never understood all the outcry. If they had built the waterfront line properly and didn't rush it for the Centennial, then I could see it being a loss - but as it is, the line isn't all that useful even when it is running optimally.

 

 

 

Bottom line, RTA built the train line and it's foolish not to use it for what it was designed for, especially now that it's needed.  And what about the fireworks debacle when the WFL was similarly idle.  What's AAO's take on all this?

 

AAO hasn't taken a position on the Waterfront Line service hours, nor have we said anything about the Green Line's shortened hours too. It's difficult to argue for adding or restoring service hours when the evening ridership was so bad and RTA finances are hurting. We're still not out of the woods yet regarding RTA finances and until that happens I don't know how you can push for expanded hours without additional revenues identified first. At least with the Waterfront Line there is a argument to be made on the ridership side of the equation, since Flats East Bank is becoming so congested. The same cannot be said for the Green Line and there are no plans to develop TOD around stations such as at Warrensville or Green Road.

 

Ultimately we need to stop trying to put out brush fires and instead look at things more holistically in terms of funding and system design. I think that conversation will happen very soon. All Aboard Ohio is already starting to push for it and NOACA is getting out in front of this issue already.

 

AAO hasn't taken a position on the Waterfront Line service hours, nor have we said anything about the Green Line's shortened hours too. It's difficult to argue for adding or restoring service hours when the evening ridership was so bad and RTA finances are hurting. We're still not out of the woods yet regarding RTA finances and until that happens I don't know how you can push for expanded hours without additional revenues identified first. At least with the Waterfront Line there is a argument to be made on the ridership side of the equation, since Flats East Bank is becoming so congested. The same cannot be said for the Green Line and there are no plans to develop TOD around stations such as at Warrensville or Green Road.

The Green Line is less of a priority because, except for the Green Road station, Blue Line stations and lots are 1 mile or less away.  My concern was the folks form dense Shaker Square in where the loss of Green Line trains turn 15 minute train intervals into 30-minute intervals. 

 

The bigger issue is the Waterfront Line... As for additional Ohio funding, it of course is important to continue to press the issue, and I’m glad AAO is on that as well as NOACA.  But what about smart allocation of the few dollars RTA does have?  Does it make sense for RTA to cry poor when the agency deploys 4 (often more) cops to Tower City every evening to stand around and chew the fat in the system's safest station when, as you acknowledge, the Flats is becoming congested and RTA claims it can’t afford to run WFL trains to help pick up the slack?  And there are other questionable RTA spending priorities, like posting expensive metal signs for Train and BRT re-route when temp paper/card-stock temp route signs can be stapled (and removed) from telephone poles.

 

That's true, but there are still viable alternatives than the train line.

 

Uber (without surge) is $5-$6 from Tower City to the East Bank Flats apartments. Add another dollar for every additional passenger, and it becomes a very cheap and viable option.

 

Tower City is .8 miles to the East Bank Flats apartments. That isn't such a bad walk at all.

 

It would be nice to have a more operable train line, but I've just never understood all the outcry. If they had built the waterfront line properly and didn't rush it for the Centennial, then I could see it being a loss - but as it is, the line isn't all that useful even when it is running optimally.

 

 

You conveniently fail to note mention that the .8 mile walk to/from the Flats also includes navigating steep hills – some of the steepest on a Cuyahoga County street grid.  Great exercise for some but not all, especially walking uphill on a hot evening in nice clothes... And why should people pay for Uber, or even stop, get off a train, and come outside to meet the cab, when an operating rail system already exists.  Other cities, like Detroit, Milwaukee, Indy, Cincy, KC, etc., etc, are breaking their necks trying to build the type of rail system we already have and yet people, apparently you included, seem hell bent in wanting to throw it away.  People in the wider world would laugh at Cleveland for this.

 

And I have no idea what you mean by properly building the WFL or rushing it for the Centennial.  They original idea from the 1980s was to move people from Tower City, the city’s rail hub, down to the tightly restricted streets (given, once again, the hill grades surrounding it along with the FEB’s narrow streets).  And the WFL’s added bonus is a 1-seat ride into the Flats from the East Side/Eastern suburbs… So what do you mean be improving WFL infrastructure any more than it is?

 

Btw, the Waterfront line was started for the bicentennial. Give the city credit for the first 100 years as well as the second. ;)

^lol, right you are.

 

 

You conveniently fail to note mention that the .8 mile walk to/from the Flats also includes navigating steep hills – some of the steepest on a Cuyahoga County street grid.  Great exercise for some but not all, especially walking uphill on a hot evening in nice clothes... And why should people pay for Uber, or even stop, get off a train, and come outside to meet the cab, when an operating rail system already exists.  Other cities, like Detroit, Milwaukee, Indy, Cincy, KC, etc., etc, are breaking their necks trying to build the type of rail system we already have and yet people, apparently you included, seem hell bent in wanting to throw it away.  People in the wider world would laugh at Cleveland for this.

 

And I have no idea what you mean by properly building the WFL or rushing it for the Centennial.  They original idea from the 1980s was to move people from Tower City, the city’s rail hub, down to the tightly restricted streets (given, once again, the hill grades surrounding it along with the FEB’s narrow streets).  And the WFL’s added bonus is a 1-seat ride into the Flats from the East Side/Eastern suburbs… So what do you mean be improving WFL infrastructure any more than it is?

 

 

Hell bent on wanting to throw it away? Oh come on, that's a bit overdramatic. It's an incomplete, underutilized for years, rushed project - not sure what else to tell you. The Flats thrived before it was built, and there are plenty of reasonable alternatives for people getting down there today. Taking an Uber from a parked car or train stop works quite well; don't knock it till you try it.

 

And as for steep hills, I've seen plenty of people walking in nice clothes in hilly cities like Georgetown, Boston, San Francisco, LA etc, and they manage to make it work.

 

 

You conveniently fail to note mention that the .8 mile walk to/from the Flats also includes navigating steep hills – some of the steepest on a Cuyahoga County street grid.  Great exercise for some but not all, especially walking uphill on a hot evening in nice clothes... And why should people pay for Uber, or even stop, get off a train, and come outside to meet the cab, when an operating rail system already exists.  Other cities, like Detroit, Milwaukee, Indy, Cincy, KC, etc., etc, are breaking their necks trying to build the type of rail system we already have and yet people, apparently you included, seem hell bent in wanting to throw it away.  People in the wider world would laugh at Cleveland for this.

 

And I have no idea what you mean by properly building the WFL or rushing it for the Centennial.  They original idea from the 1980s was to move people from Tower City, the city’s rail hub, down to the tightly restricted streets (given, once again, the hill grades surrounding it along with the FEB’s narrow streets).  And the WFL’s added bonus is a 1-seat ride into the Flats from the East Side/Eastern suburbs… So what do you mean be improving WFL infrastructure any more than it is?

 

 

Hell bent on wanting to throw it away? Oh come on, that's a bit overdramatic. It's an incomplete, underutilized for years, rushed project - not sure what else to tell you. The Flats thrived before it was built, and there are plenty of reasonable alternatives for people getting down there today. Taking an Uber from a parked car or train stop works quite well; don't knock it till you try it.

 

And as for steep hills, I've seen plenty of people walking in nice clothes in hilly cities like Georgetown, Boston, San Francisco, LA etc, and they manage to make it work.

 

You are essentially saying the system is of no use ... so why keep it?  Just walk or Uber, right?

 

You're not making sense.  The Waterfront Line was built for a reason and that was the growing congestion in the tightly configured Flats.  When the Flats was thriving in the late 90s after the RTA line was built, it was very well patronized.  So well so that RTA extended the rail system -- the whole rail system -- until 2a on weekends from Memorial Day to Labor Day.  RTA creatively even partnered with the then Holy Moses Water taxi so that WFL users could show their RTA tickets/passes and ride the boat across the river to Shooters, etc for $1.  Am I to assume you're against such programs in favor of driving your car, Uber or walking?

 

The Flats then died in the early 2000s and WFL patronage went with it.  Now that the Flats, esp FEB is rebounding strongly, why shouldn't rail service be expanded again to meet the demand?  If it worked in the 90s, why not now?  What's the difference (other than a forward-looking RTA GM vs the guy we've got now)?

 

And what's your explanation for not using the WFL for the 4th of July fireworks when it's always been used? 

While definitely more than today, I don't remember the WFL ever being that big in the 90's because they didn't run the trains until after 2 am.  Most people wanted to stay until closing time, so the train didn't get them home. 

Shared-Use Mobility‏ @SharedUseCntr  29m29 minutes ago

More

.@GCRTA is working w/ @Enterprise to launch a vanpooling service to supplement #transit via @METROmagTweet http://ow.ly/J6nn30ds15T

Just drop it, RTA. If true, this is absurd....

 

CLEVELAND

RTA pursues criminal charges against student who forgot free bus pass

Phil Trexler, WKYC

11 hours ago

 

His crime: Fare evasion, for not showing his school-issued RTA bus pass.

 

The pass was given to him free of charge, just like the one given to thousands of Cleveland Metropolitan School District students every year. They are contained in every student’s school I.D.

 

Ninth-grader Elijah Whitt was stopped twice this past school year by RTA police after exiting a Rapid train.

 

MORE:

http://www.wkyc.com/mb/news/local/cleveland/rta-pursues-criminal-charges-to-teen-who-forgot-free-bus-pass/455775234

While definitely more than today, I don't remember the WFL ever being that big in the 90's because they didn't run the trains until after 2 am.  Most people wanted to stay until closing time, so the train didn't get them home. 

 

Actually I remember WFL trains to be well patronized back then. While some clubs stayed open beyond 2a on weekends, many did not.  And even if they were open, most folks were heading home by 2a and, I remember that ORR and other FEB streets were clogged as WFL trains glided by into Tower City and then home.  IIRC more West Siders transferred at TC for Red Line trains.  I know at closing time, trains were generally 3/4 (or more) full and on many occasions, esp when there was concert or some kind of special event in the Flats, RTA ran 2-car trains until 2a (actually 2:15a on the Blue Line).  But the WFL was new back then, the Flats was exploding and RTA at the time encouraged people to ride the trains and many Flats goers trusted the trains... None of those factors are in play today even with FEB's recent resurgence with crowds even bigger than the 90s Flats. 

While definitely more than today, I don't remember the WFL ever being that big in the 90's because they didn't run the trains until after 2 am.  Most people wanted to stay until closing time, so the train didn't get them home. 

 

Actually I remember WFL trains to be well patronized back then. While some clubs stayed open beyond 2a on weekends, many did not.  And even if they were open, most folks were heading home by 2a and, I remember that ORR and other FEB streets were clogged as WFL trains glided by into Tower City and then home.  IIRC more West Siders transferred at TC for Red Line trains.  I know at closing time, trains were generally 3/4 (or more) full and on many occasions, esp when there was concert or some kind of special event in the Flats, RTA ran 2-car trains until 2a (actually 2:15a on the Blue Line).  But the WFL was new back then, the Flats was exploding and RTA at the time encouraged people to ride the trains and many Flats goers trusted the trains... None of those factors are in play today even with FEB's recent resurgence with crowds even bigger than the 90s Flats. 

 

I worked down there off an and from 94-98.  We used to joke about the ghost trains and place bets on one coming towards us as to the number of passengers on board.  Some people called it "Mike White's Choo Choo".  It may have had occasional peaks in ridership, and was probably more than today, but it was never wildly successful as it could have been if they had ran trains until 3-4 am.

Red Line improvements are coming to the eastbound track that has been under a slow order for a couple of years now. This was in the Dodge Reports (an old listing from a month or so ago)...

 

Track Rehabilitation W 30th Street to W 98th Street

201700650304 v. 6

Dodge Project Report

Owner Type: Public

Valuation: $6,838,402 OH (Cuyahoga)

Bid Date: Jun 29, 2017

While definitely more than today, I don't remember the WFL ever being that big in the 90's because they didn't run the trains until after 2 am.  Most people wanted to stay until closing time, so the train didn't get them home. 

 

Actually I remember WFL trains to be well patronized back then. While some clubs stayed open beyond 2a on weekends, many did not.  And even if they were open, most folks were heading home by 2a and, I remember that ORR and other FEB streets were clogged as WFL trains glided by into Tower City and then home.  IIRC more West Siders transferred at TC for Red Line trains.  I know at closing time, trains were generally 3/4 (or more) full and on many occasions, esp when there was concert or some kind of special event in the Flats, RTA ran 2-car trains until 2a (actually 2:15a on the Blue Line).  But the WFL was new back then, the Flats was exploding and RTA at the time encouraged people to ride the trains and many Flats goers trusted the trains... None of those factors are in play today even with FEB's recent resurgence with crowds even bigger than the 90s Flats. 

 

I worked down there off an and from 94-98.  We used to joke about the ghost trains and place bets on one coming towards us as to the number of passengers on board.  Some people called it "Mike White's Choo Choo".  It may have had occasional peaks in ridership, and was probably more than today, but it was never wildly successful as it could have been if they had ran trains until 3-4 am.

 

I'm not saying the WFL was 'wildly successful' but was useful and used be many during its early years... Again, I'm only talking about Friday and Saturday nights during the summer (when we used to use it to the Flats).  At all other times the Flats was dead and trains were empty, I recognize that.  We are only now slowly developing along the WFL line (but even the below article notes the abundance of parking built into the FEB Phases I and II that have diverted people to their cars) ... But I never, ever recall them being ghost trains during the party central days of the Flats during the late 90s...

This is an old (from about a year ago) Cleveland transit piece from the Green Lake-Blue City blog that offered some interesting insight even with some of the mistakes -- the writer indicated he is a Cleveland transplant.

 

https://greenlakebluecity.com/tag/cleveland-rta/

 

The entire GCRTA red line was down last night. Maybe it's time @ArmondBudish @CuyahogaCouncil @CleCityCouncil @CLEMayorJackson ride the red line! ? https://t.co/dO5CONhAOJ

The entire GCRTA red line was down last night. Maybe it's time @ArmondBudish @CuyahogaCouncil @CleCityCouncil @CLEMayorJackson ride the red line! ? https://t.co/dO5CONhAOJ

 

Valarie McCall too! (judging from some of her past comments, RTA is as familiar to her as East Jiblip ... Michael Bloomberg, when he was NYC mayor, rode the subway all the time despite being one of the richest men in the world... Rahm Emmanuel rides Chicago's L to work every day, too; Mike Dukakis rode Boston's T to the State House when he was Massachusetts Gov. There are other examples...

 

But here in Cleveland riding RTA is considered a faux pas for public officials or anyone, public or private, with any status for that matter...  Jane Campbell grew up in Shaker and, when mayor, lived on Drexmore a block from the Blue and Green lines near Shaker Square -- her City Hall office was adjacent to the WFL stop on E. 9th-- she would have had a straight, 1-seat shot to work... And yet she never set foot on a Rapid her entire time in office choosing to be chauffeured in a City car limo... It's why transit struggles to gain any meaningful support from local officals.

Great piece by the @TransitCenter's Colin Wright. Mayor Jackson has failed us when it comes to public transportation https://t.co/9RSFNSx86j

Great piece by the @TransitCenter's Colin Wright. Mayor Jackson has failed us when it comes to public transportation https://t.co/9RSFNSx86j

 

Very insightful article (and from NYC, no less).  I've been very disappointed in Jackson's near total silence (sans the Public Sq debate) on transit.  It's even more appalling since he represented, and still lives in, Ward 5 (Central/Kinsman) which is among the, if not THE, poorest most transit-dependent ward in Cleveland.  A ward which, btw, is extensively served by buses and all-3 rail lines -- though the quality of service on buses, and the total lack of development around rail stations in Central/Kinsman is deplorable.  Only NOACA and prodding of the Opportunity corridor (in fairness, with some of the latter coming from Jackson) has only recently began the discussion.  But Jackson should be a constant champion of Cleveland's still notable transit network and not a (mainly) bystander.

What should Jackson do?

 

The mayor should first take full advantage of the rail system he has inherited. Cities from Seattle to Charlotte are spending billions to build passenger rail networks like the one Cleveland already possesses. Instead of bestowing new subsidies on wealthy sports teams, why not offer tax incentives to bring transit-friendly residential and commercial development to the parking lots and vacant land next to train stations?

- Colin Wright

Mayor Jackson has fallen in love with access to the power of Cleveland's corporate community. And sadly that corporate community has failed to recognize the importance of public transportation in linking people to jobs, mobilizing our labor force, reducing poverty, and thus improving economic development. Jackson is the face of this failure and certainly does own the failure because if he had a backbone he would challenge the business community. But behind-the-scenes, the corporate community is a big part of the blame too.

But here in Cleveland riding RTA is considered a faux pas for public officials or anyone, public or private, with any status for that matter...  Jane Campbell grew up in Shaker and, when mayor, lived on Drexmore a block from the Blue and Green lines near Shaker Square -- her City Hall office was adjacent to the WFL stop on E. 9th-- she would have had a straight, 1-seat shot to work... And yet she never set foot on a Rapid her entire time in office choosing to be chauffeured in a City car limo... It's why transit struggles to gain any meaningful support from local officals.

 

Yep, because "planners" in the early days of the system refused to make any concessions whatsoever to the desires or preferences of those with other options.  As a result, transit became a de facto "social program".  I'm not sure how to fix that at this point, or even if it can be done. 

The new sound effect they play before the 'pedestrian, bus is approaching' spiel on turning buses and trolleys is horrible. It sounds like a noise a cb radio makes. I guess they did studies for the most annoying sound, so that people instinctively look up?

But here in Cleveland riding RTA is considered a faux pas for public officials or anyone, public or private, with any status for that matter...  Jane Campbell grew up in Shaker and, when mayor, lived on Drexmore a block from the Blue and Green lines near Shaker Square -- her City Hall office was adjacent to the WFL stop on E. 9th-- she would have had a straight, 1-seat shot to work... And yet she never set foot on a Rapid her entire time in office choosing to be chauffeured in a City car limo... It's why transit struggles to gain any meaningful support from local officals.

 

Yep, because "planners" in the early days of the system refused to make any concessions whatsoever to the desires or preferences of those with other options.  As a result, transit became a de facto "social program".  I'm not sure how to fix that at this point, or even if it can be done. 

 

I'm not sure who you mean by planners from the early days -- the Van Sweringens?  Donald Hyde?  Bert Porter?  Len Ronis?

But I don't buy the "social program" angle, and if people see transit that way, they need to be publicly corrected...

 

I do know that, after RTA was created in the 1970s, everybody was into transit.  When my mom was confident enough to let me ride downtown alone on the Shaker Rapid to meet my dad "by the cigar shop" near the Rapid's ancient, subway-like escalator up from wooden platforms, people were streaming to/from rapid cars... Transit interest lasted as long as commuters existed, and when downtown seriously declined business/office-wise, ridership went with it, because downtown was pretty much dead after 7p... (Higbee's late closing nights, Wednesdays?  did keep some shopper buzz after hours, but...). 

 

And as much as people bash the Waterfront Line today has this expensive, waste of time, in the 80s and 90s, planners, leaders and biz folks (including Jeff Jacobs) embraced the idea, the Bicentennial commission backed it, Mayor White backed it, Mayor-turned-governor Voinovich engineered direct state funding in order to bypass the red tape of the Feds, ... and the thing got built.  And yes, it was well patronized on weekends when FEB bars, restaurants and clubs were packed -- and Flats' festivals were ubiquitous, and RTA back in the day often ran 2-car trains on weekends... And quality restaurants, like the old Watermark, even printed maps directing patrons from trains to the restaurant ... and back.

 

But a new mentality has emerged among local leaders since thing.  Somehow, now, with our new, rejuvenated and exciting Cleveland, esp downtown and in those neighborhoods, we've suddenly become too cool for transit.  Many suburbanites and those in outer Cleveland hoods look at you funny if you mention taking the Rapid, even if they know it's going to be crazy crowded downtown -- they'd rather drive...

 

I believe much of this has been encouraged by RTA's current administration where, now, many Clevelanders, logically so, don't trust the Rapid -- can't rely on it; don't know when their line is going to be open or closed; don't know, even when it's open, whether they have to walk up a Mt. Everest of stairs in Tower City during the Track 8 reconstruction but the elevator -- the 1 elevator! -- was broken down...

 

... and our pols have gone along with this mentality.  Transit is almost completely ignored by the mayor and city councilmen ... accept when there's a grand opening, like the excellent, spanking new, relocated Little Italy Red Line stop, where Mayor Jackson, and his trusty, nationally famous aide and RTA envoy, Valarie McCall, bask in the spotlight to wield pairs of giant scissors at ribbon cuttings.     

 

So we're left with waiting for that Angel Pol/Administrator that gets it (like Chris Ronayne at UCI) or an Angel Developer, like MRN or Tony Panzica (at Uptown, Centric), or even NOACA's new boss Grace Gallucci (who has been impressive so far) to do the right thing.  Without them, where would we be?  Our advocates are either not focused enough, or maybe sometimes misguided (like attacking the Waterfront Line while advocating more buses)... It was great to see folks motivated enough to make noise about the Public Square debacle last year -- even though I still, personally, don't like buses going through the middle and hate those ugly concrete freeway barriers now, I enjoyed seeing the transit passion (and I do get the $Millions lost due to the rerouted buses -- I just believe plans should have been made for a compromise ahead of time that could have satisfied all parties)...

 

... My hopes are also leavened by the millennials who live downtown ... and in those neighborhoods, who freely ride the buses and trains and BRTs and Trolleys... They are demanding quality transit by there actions... But with out serious organization, advocacy and more NOISE ... the pols, the business types and others, will continue to shunt transit to the back burner of the public consciousness.  Old Rapid cars will continue to decline and fail to the point where we're considering Rapid Line, or system, closures... I guess, maybe then the riding public will get motivated....

Public Square is closed to buses, again...at least as of 12:30-1am this morning.

But here in Cleveland riding RTA is considered a faux pas for public officials or anyone, public or private, with any status for that matter...  Jane Campbell grew up in Shaker and, when mayor, lived on Drexmore a block from the Blue and Green lines near Shaker Square -- her City Hall office was adjacent to the WFL stop on E. 9th-- she would have had a straight, 1-seat shot to work... And yet she never set foot on a Rapid her entire time in office choosing to be chauffeured in a City car limo... It's why transit struggles to gain any meaningful support from local officals.

 

Yep, because "planners" in the early days of the system refused to make any concessions whatsoever to the desires or preferences of those with other options.  As a result, transit became a de facto "social program".  I'm not sure how to fix that at this point, or even if it can be done. 

 

I'm not sure who you mean by planners from the early days -- the Van Sweringens?  Donald Hyde?  Bert Porter?  Len Ronis?

But I don't buy the "social program" angle, and if people see transit that way, they need to be publicly corrected...

 

I do know that, after RTA was created in the 1970s, everybody was into transit. 

 

That didn't happen "after" RTA was created, some of it remained in the well served inner ring suburbs like Shaker Heights, Cleveland Heights, and Maple Heights (which remained autonomous until the late 80s).  The planners I mean were at the beginning of the RTA era, the ones who felt everything should connect through downtown and eliminated many strictly suburban routes.  Some also refused to consider expanding service to more affluent areas.  Krumholz is the one most often mentioned in terms of SR extension, but there were others and of course the politicians they convinced have at least an equal share of the "credit".

 

This was the big factor.  Using RTA as part of the busing program was another.  Many downtown commuters started driving because of the rowdy schoolkids.  The numbers support this (this use also cushioned the decline....then), I saw it happen.  And it should be close to obvious that people who do not commute using transit don't use it for other things either.

 

I'm not the only one whose used the "social program" line on here, I may not even be the first.  And yes, that's largely how it's seen.

 

On the other hand, there's a Lake County park and ride lot near my plant for their downtown runs, I took a peek in there the other day and there were a few higher end cars mixed in.  So apparently it's not as much of an issue for them.

^The idea that non-radial suburban transit routes would have hung on significantly longer but for RTA strikes me as a bit far fetched. More likely, places like Maple Hts would have had no transit at all.

^The idea that non-radial suburban transit routes would have hung on significantly longer but for RTA strikes me as a bit far fetched. More likely, places like Maple Hts would have had no transit at all.

 

Hard to say, thirty years later.  It's possible they wouldn't be able to afford it (they did some dumb things vis a vis local employers and the schools) and would have merged on their own later.  But before the merger the system was a point of pride to MH, and it remained so as an autonomous entity for several years afterwards.

But here in Cleveland riding RTA is considered a faux pas for public officials or anyone, public or private, with any status for that matter...  Jane Campbell grew up in Shaker and, when mayor, lived on Drexmore a block from the Blue and Green lines near Shaker Square -- her City Hall office was adjacent to the WFL stop on E. 9th-- she would have had a straight, 1-seat shot to work... And yet she never set foot on a Rapid her entire time in office choosing to be chauffeured in a City car limo... It's why transit struggles to gain any meaningful support from local officals.

 

Yep, because "planners" in the early days of the system refused to make any concessions whatsoever to the desires or preferences of those with other options.  As a result, transit became a de facto "social program".  I'm not sure how to fix that at this point, or even if it can be done. 

 

I'm not sure who you mean by planners from the early days -- the Van Sweringens?  Donald Hyde?  Bert Porter?  Len Ronis?

But I don't buy the "social program" angle, and if people see transit that way, they need to be publicly corrected...

 

I do know that, after RTA was created in the 1970s, everybody was into transit. 

 

That didn't happen "after" RTA was created, some of it remained in the well served inner ring suburbs like Shaker Heights, Cleveland Heights, and Maple Heights (which remained autonomous until the late 80s).  The planners I mean were at the beginning of the RTA era, the ones who felt everything should connect through downtown and eliminated many strictly suburban routes.  Some also refused to consider expanding service to more affluent areas.  Krumholz is the one most often mentioned in terms of SR extension, but there were others and of course the politicians they convinced have at least an equal share of the "credit".

 

This was the big factor.  Using RTA as part of the busing program was another.  Many downtown commuters started driving because of the rowdy schoolkids.  The numbers support this (this use also cushioned the decline....then), I saw it happen.  And it should be close to obvious that people who do not commute using transit don't use it for other things either.

 

I'm not the only one whose used the "social program" line on here, I may not even be the first.  And yes, that's largely how it's seen.

 

On the other hand, there's a Lake County park and ride lot near my plant for their downtown runs, I took a peek in there the other day and there were a few higher end cars mixed in.  So apparently it's not as much of an issue for them.

 

I wouldn't consider Norm Krumholz a transit planner... He was more a rail critic who helped doom the Green Line (1.5 mile) "Mode Mixer" extension to I-271. 

 

The cross-town "rapid-ing" of school kids was a stupid policy by the CMSD... btw, most were just being rambunctious immature kids-- I think the term "rowdy" was a stereotype.  I think the rapid/busing policy may have hurt, then, Terminal Tower retail more so than rapid riding...

 

I don't doubt, however, that the change in image of RTA may have been yet another form of 'white flight' which has adversely affected so many aspects of Cleveland life, from housing, county population and the popularity (and unpopularity) of various retail and entertainment districts ... to name a few.  (and from a few comments I've been reading of late on the FEB thread, it may be an elephant lurking in the room down there -- again -- as well.... Let's hope not.  We'll never be a healthy city as long as this remains an issue).

 

 

Did Public Square reopen to buses since Sunday morning?

Of course public transit is a social program-- a very effective one, hence its ubiquity.  If social program has become a derogatory term, therein lies our problem.

 

The cross-town "rapid-ing" of school kids was a stupid policy by the CMSD... btw, most were just being rambunctious immature kids-- I think the term "rowdy" was a stereotype.  I think the rapid/busing policy may have hurt, then, Terminal Tower retail more so than rapid riding...

 

I don't doubt, however, that the change in image of RTA may have been yet another form of 'white flight' which has adversely affected so many aspects of Cleveland life, from housing, county population and the popularity (and unpopularity) of various retail and entertainment districts ... to name a few.  (and from a few comments I've been reading of late on the FEB thread, it may be an elephant lurking in the room down there -- again -- as well.... Let's hope not.  We'll never be a healthy city as long as this remains an issue).

 

"Rowdy" is a word most people would associate with "immature and rambunctious" and I would agree with both assessments.  I was 20 at the time and it annoyed me, and I saw a definite decline in the number or commuters on those trains.  Not dangerous, annoying.

 

All the East Bank comments were about behavior, what we will choose to accept and not accept and what we will we do to deter the latter.

Word on the street is that ABM parking just raised their daily rates .50-1.00 across the board. I wonder if this will get a few more commuters to consider RTA?

^ correct, I drive one day a week and noticed after I paid that the price had increased.  This is the lot at Superior and W9th, and has seen two $.50 increases in the last 9 months. 

 

I'm just thankful that I only have to do it once a week. 

Word on the street is that ABM parking just raised their daily rates .50-1.00 across the board. I wonder if this will get a few more commuters to consider RTA?

 

Honestly, I don't think $1.00 more for parking will make people switch. Transit ridership seems to increase when fuel prices increase dramatically.  Low fuel prices means more drivers. IMHO

Word on the street is that ABM parking just raised their daily rates .50-1.00 across the board. I wonder if this will get a few more commuters to consider RTA?

 

Honestly, I don't think $1.00 more for parking will make people switch. Transit ridership seems to increase when fuel prices increase dramatically.  Low fuel prices means more drivers. IMHO

 

Or when driving and parking becomes more of a hassle, which is why I wish FEB Phase 3 could get started and close that big surface lot in the middle of the complex.  Unfortunately it doesn't appear Phase 3 is happening anytime soon, so all those E&Y workers will continue park their cars and walk across WFL tracks next to the rapid station despite the often convenience of a Rapid line near them with the abundance of free RTA lot parking.

 

Some E&Y workers opt for WFL trains, but not nearly enough.

^ As much as I hate surface parking, I can't begrudge the developer for putting a surface lot in FEB.  Until Phase 3 becomes feasible, the lot can generate some revenue for the developer.

^I don't either.  The lot is income-producing, especially on weekends when there's high space turnover (and multiple fees) as FEB patrons are coming and going.  I just wish Clevelanders weren't so prone to driving all the time even when transit is convenient.

Word on the street is that ABM parking just raised their daily rates .50-1.00 across the board. I wonder if this will get a few more commuters to consider RTA?

 

Honestly, I don't think $1.00 more for parking will make people switch. Transit ridership seems to increase when fuel prices increase dramatically.  Low fuel prices means more drivers. IMHO

 

Or when driving and parking becomes more of a hassle, which is why I wish FEB Phase 3 could get started and close that big surface lot in the middle of the complex.  Unfortunately it doesn't appear Phase 3 is happening anytime soon, so all those E&Y workers will continue park their cars and walk across WFL tracks next to the rapid station despite the often convenience of a Rapid line near them with the abundance of free RTA lot parking.

 

Some E&Y workers opt for WFL trains, but not nearly enough.

 

When/If either Nucleus or Weston's projects get going I think we could see an increase in the number of transit riders.  While both will include parking garages they wont immediately be available and will reduce parking in the interim.  Once people change their habits it will be harder to go back as well.

^No question about.  That would especially be true of Nucleus, which is a gigantic building (vertical-wise) on a relatively small footprint and an already relatively dense area -- esp on weekends and sports nights.  Last Saturday night -- which was warm and beautiful, both the Euclid and Prospect corridors to E. 9th were jammed with peds and cars -- and the Indians were in Chicago!  We didn't even make it to FEB, but I can only imagine...

RTA would have to be able to retain a significant portion of those new riders.

I didn't see this mentioned, but as of Aug 4th, the C-Line Trolley's route through FEB has been altered, probably due to the crazy traffic, as follows:

 

http://www.riderta.com/service-alerts/new-flats-east-bank-alignment

Plus I've seen trolleys ride the curb to try and make turns in tight quarters with all the cars backed up near Front Street.

Plus I've seen trolleys ride the curb to try and make turns in tight quarters with all the cars backed up near Front Street.

 

Well Ken, it would seem that these cutesy miniature buses, er, Trolleys are having a tough time negotiating the narrow streets and tight turns of the Flats amidst the heavy/crazy traffic that has been attracted to FEB these warm summer nights, esp on Friday and Saturdays.  You know, a high capacity, rail rapid transit (no, not another Joe C. BRT) that could maneuver through and past all that heavy traffic to speed Flats revelers directly to their homes or cars, in free parking lots at outer stations, or for connections to other rail lines and buses a few minutes away would be great in such situations.  It sure would be great if Cleveland was blessed with such a system ...

 

... oh wait...

 

This Saturday (8/12) kicks off the annual Feast of the Assumption in Little Italy which runs through Tuesday night.  On Little Italy's website reads the following:

 

The best way to navigate to The Feast is to take the RTA Red Line which has a stop in Little Italy. If traveling on the Green or Blue Lines from the east side, you can transfer to the Red Line at East 55th.

 

http://clevelandlittleitaly.com/events/

 

It's interesting that while RTA, on its  website, also recommends using the Red Line, they fail to mention Green/Blue Line riders' transferring at E. 55th to the Red Line -- which, btw, I know many Green and Blue riders do.  Wonder why ?  You'd think the transit agency, itself, would have the most practical and useful information as to how to utilize its rail system as opposed to a mere neighborhood organization -- although LI's website is very informational.

 

RTA's Feast travel info: http://www.riderta.com/publications/ridersdigest/2017/August#toc-8

 

Then again, it's RTA we're talking about... I forgot.

Thanks to NOACA for making funds available for the Tower City phase 2 track reconstruction. The RTA board voted to OK funding to design the work including drainage, etc.

 

2017-63 – Authorizing Contract No. 2017-061 with Transystems Corporation of Ohio for Project 52M – Engineering Services for the Reconstruction of Tracks 10 E&W and Track 13 at the Tower City Station in an amount not to exceed $1,172,869.00 (RTA Development Fund, Engineering & Project Development Department budget)

^Article mentions that, despite RTA's vote yesterday, construction won't begin for nearly 2 years.

I'm surprised it will be 2 years. I figured one year at least to allow enough time to do the detailed engineering work which I assume will include improved drainage underneath the station. Perhaps the funding won't be available for two years.

 

This project also means that GCRTA will have to temporarily use the old Shaker station again, with westbound trains moved to the rebuilt eastbound track. Perhaps the elevator to the Shaker platform will be fixed by then....

RTA plans 'rebranding' of two HealthLine bus stations in University Circle as 'Museum Stops'

 

By Steven Litt, The Plain Dealer

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio - The Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority plans to host a gathering at 1 p.m. today to announce the "rebranding" of two HealthLine bus rapid transit stations near cultural attractions in University Circle as "The Museum Stop."

 

An RTA announcement states that "colorful artwork and depictions of area museums are included in the new designs that embellish the stations."

 

The changes in graphics are intended to help RTA riders associate the stations as "Museum Stops," to clarify which ones are closest to attractions including the Cleveland Museum of Art and Severance Hall, home of the Cleveland Orchestra.

 

The new Museum Stops are located on Euclid Avenue at Stearns Road and Stokes Boulevard, RTA said.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/architecture/index.ssf/2017/08/rta_plans_rebranding_of_two_he.html#incart_river_home

After that announcement, there were some on Twitter who dubbed this a "lipstick on a pig" move because the HealthLine really needs dedicated lanes through UC, from East 105th to East 118th, to avoid getting delayed by the traffic.