^ I offer that as well..  I do some voiceover anyway. It would be fun.

 

the redline and trolleys should all have automated human voice recorded announcements now - if not, then something is broken and consider reporting train number or time/day/direction.  blue/green lines and healthline automated human voice announcements should be coming as well.   

 

I know this forum is about RTA, but this helps illustrate my point.  It's a cute little video about Portland's bus system getting some automated announcements... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZWiRaeaQkY

 

the ARRA funds that RTA received recently for the enhanced turn signal warnings is the same type of equipment (mainly external speakers) that are needed for external stop announcing.  once the speakers are fully installed, i expect you will see external stop announcments as well.  CTA has had this for a while. 

 

I was on the redline to the airport around 7am last Wednesday and from around 9pm last night, and neither ride used the automated announcements.  I was under the impression as well they were already in use.

I would gladly record the RTA train accouncements... and I won't even demand a royality!  ;)

 

I know this forum is about RTA, but this helps illustrate my point.  It's a cute little video about Portland's bus system getting some automated announcements... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZWiRaeaQkY

 

I think it's pretty cool their transit system has a YouTube video service like this... they have more videos, too.  I don't suspect RTA has any money set aside for something like this, dare I ask??   :wink2:

 

RTA has a youtube account, however, I don't think it is the same as the one that you linked to. By the way, this is their youtube channel.

Jerry, glad your surgery went well.  Great to see you back. 

 

Also great to hear that RTA has no interest in BRT on Buckeye.  I wouldn't have raised the Buckeye BRT issue if not for the fact that, according to this article, Cleveland requested $50 mill of stimulus money in furtherance of "Euclid Corridor style" BRT on Clifton, 55th, and Buckeye. 

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,1795.msg357591.html#msg357591

 

I had made a logical leap in assuming that since RTA is in charge of transit planning around here, RTA would have been at least tangentially involved in this funding request.  If the city was acting in a loose-cannon capacity, 1) that can't be how it's supposed to work, and 2) perhaps RTA should clear the air in DC by letting the administration know we definitely don't want BRT on Buckeye.

Jerry, glad your surgery went well.  Great to see you back. 

 

Also great to hear that RTA has no interest in BRT on Buckeye. I wouldn't have raised the Buckeye BRT issue if not for the fact that, according to this article, Cleveland requested $50 mill of stimulus money in furtherance of "Euclid Corridor style" BRT on Clifton, 55th, and Buckeye. 

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,1795.msg357591.html#msg357591

 

I had made a logical leap in assuming that since RTA is in charge of transit planning around here, RTA would have been at least tangentially involved in this funding request.  If the city was acting in a loose-cannon capacity, 1) that can't be how it's supposed to work, and 2) perhaps RTA should clear the air in DC by letting the administration know we definitely don't want BRT on Buckeye.

 

Maybe we all should have looked at the line items instead of jumping to conclusions, based on a description with no details.

 

The comments by posters up thread might need to be modified.

The automated announcements seem to be in place sometimes, but not all the time.  Yesterday on the redline eastbound to downtown, there were no announcements.  Today, the announcements were on.

 

And I agree about the drivers and their grasp of English and/or pronounciation.  The guy we had yesterday had such a thick accent nobody could understand what he was saying.  He was trying to explain about why the train was late and something about how they tried to be ready due to the bad snow but something something something.  There was no name plate so I don't know his name and I meant to make a mental note of the train but I was so tired, I just forgot. 

 

But to docbroc's point, I have had the "CLOSIN!" or "doors clo..." (cut off before done) announcers over and over and over.  There are some good, clear speakers, and then there's the CLOSIN' people, who mostly seem to be women.

The automated announcements seem to be in place sometimes, but not all the time. Yesterday on the redline eastbound to downtown, there were no announcements. Today, the announcements were on.

 

And I agree about the drivers and their grasp of English and/or pronounciation. The guy we had yesterday had such a thick accent nobody could understand what he was saying. He was trying to explain about why the train was late and something about how they tried to be ready due to the bad snow but something something something. There was no name plate so I don't know his name and I meant to make a mental note of the train but I was so tired, I just forgot.

 

But to docbroc's point, I have had the "CLOSIN!" or "doors clo..." (cut off before done) announcers over and over and over. There are some good, clear speakers, and then there's the CLOSIN' people, who mostly seem to be women.

 

And there's also the "West One-Fiddy" or "West Nine-Eight" crowd.  For goodness sakes, you're announcing to the public on a train - use proper english.  Anyway, is it an RTA requirement that all drivers/operators use automated announcements when available?  It would seem necessary in order to be ADA compliant.  While the lack of use seems to be less frequent on the HealthLine than the Rapid, some HealthLine drivers also choose not to use the automated announcements.  Elsewhere, like on the #9, the announcements are completely absent between Chester and E. 17th and Euclid and E. 89th and then start up again (obviously not the fault of the operator), which I have brought up on this thread before.  It just seems there's no standard policy or quality control on the part of RTA.

I was on the redline to the airport around 7am last Wednesday and from around 9pm last night, and neither ride used the automated announcements. I was under the impression as well they were already in use.

 

I rode the Red Line on the west side last evening and heard the automated announcements. And I hate to say it but I think they give too much information!

 

Do they need to list the attractions around each station? And the announcement about people being allowed to use their cell phones "but please be respectful of people around you -- people don't need to hear what you're having for dinner tonight" made me laugh out loud as it bordered on the ridiculous. I like that the connecting buses for each station are mentioned.

line items

 

As a matter of fact, the city's stimulus request lists the BRT item under "Projects submitted by other organizations that the city of Cleveland supports" and the listed "Project Sponsor" is GCRTA.

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/cityhall_impact/2009/03/City%20of%20Cleveland%27s-AmericanRecovery%20%20Reinvestment%20Act%20Project%20List%20%283.2%2009%29_2pm.xls.pdf

 

This $50 mill request for BRT extension is more than the $30 mill requested for "RTA Rapid Station Construction," and more than the combined total for RTA rail, which includes the station re-do's plus $13 mill to relocate the E34th station to improve red line access "by residents of Central."  I had no idea red line access in Central was such a priority, especially since Central is already right next to downtown. 

 

Now, if we were talking about red line access for Collinwood I might be interested, and I might have less doubts about the current direction of our transit system.  But at this juncture we appear to be treading water on rail while moving ahead with BRT. 

I was on the redline to the airport around 7am last Wednesday and from around 9pm last night, and neither ride used the automated announcements.  I was under the impression as well they were already in use.

 

I rode the Red Line on the west side last evening and heard the automated announcements. And I hate to say it but I think they give too much information!

 

Do they need to list the attractions around each station? And the announcement about people being allowed to use their cell phones "but please be respectful of people around you -- people don't need to hear what you're having for dinner tonight" made me laugh out loud as it bordered on the ridiculous. I like that the connecting buses for each station are mentioned.

 

Connection information = good.  Even MAJOR destination announcements (like the West-Side Market or Case Western Reserve University) are probably really useful for out-of-towners.

 

Asking people to mind their manners, while having good intentions (and is apparently amusing), isn't gonna do diddly squat, as the general public has no manners half of the time.

Connection information = good. Even MAJOR destination announcements (like the West-Side Market or Case Western Reserve University) are probably really useful for out-of-towners.

 

 

Oh.... I suppose..... :)

begin quote

Great to hear that RTA has no interest in BRT on Buckeye.  I wouldn't have raised the Buckeye BRT issue if not for the fact that, according to this article, Cleveland requested $50 mill of stimulus money in furtherance of "Euclid Corridor style" BRT on Clifton, 55th, and Buckeye. 

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,1795.msg357591.html#msg357591

 

I had made a logical leap in assuming that since RTA is in charge of transit planning around here, RTA would have been at least tangentially involved in this funding request.  If the city was acting in a loose-cannon capacity, 1) that can't be how it's supposed to work, and 2) perhaps RTA should clear the air in DC by letting the administration know we definitely don't want BRT on Buckeye.

end quote

 

I recall seeing the list from Mayor Jackson, but did not recall the reference to BRT. Please note the request from City Hall, and not from RTA. When there is a pot of money that is as large as ARRA, people ask for all kinds of projects.

Here's my concern: If the city is putting words in RTA's mouth, to the extent that these words reach higher levels of government (and the public) with RTA's name attached... and basic planning priorities are grossly misrepresented... then we might as well just cue the circus music.  I mean, if the city is that far off in characterizing RTA's plans, just how big is this schism between RTA and city hall?  And are we saying city hall submitted a rough draft of their ARRA request?  I'm all for sharing a laugh about government inefficiencies, but wow, that seems off the charts.

And there's also the "West One-Fiddy" or "West Nine-Eight" crowd.  For goodness sakes, you're announcing to the public on a train - use proper english.  Anyway, is it an RTA requirement that all drivers/operators use automated announcements when available? 

 

My bigger concern is that the announcements, whether automated or not, need to be correct.  For a blind rider or one unfamiliar with the area, a grossly incorrect announcement ("Tower City, Downtown" when one is actually at Lander and Mayfield, or East 55th and Cedar) could be disastrous or worse - certainly worse than none at all.

 

As for the language/dialect issue, I have mixed feelings.  Several dialects of English are widely spoken and understood within RTA's service area.  All are, more or less, mutually intelligible among native English speakers, though not necessarily people from other countries or regions.

 

Given that many RTA riders and drivers are African-American, and that the English dialect generally spoken by African-Americans is perfectly understandable by most others in the region, I have no problem with use of this dialect on local services that aren't likely to be used by visitors from outside the region.

 

However, AAVE / Ebonics / Black English may not be as well understood by people outside the region or those for whom English is not their first language.  I can figure out what "West One Fiddy" means but a visitor from Japan or South Korea, or even from Akron, might not.  This may not be a huge percentage of RTA's ridership, but their perceptions of RTA will influence their perceptions of the entire region, and hence the economic growth that both RTA and the region as a whole desperately need. 

 

Hence, I do lean toward use of standard American English, or the closest thing possible, for automated announcements . . not because it is "superior" to others or vice versa, but because it is understood by more people than any other dialect.

 

 

Here's my concern: If the city is putting words in RTA's mouth, to the extent that these words reach higher levels of government (and the public) with RTA's name attached... and basic planning priorities are grossly misrepresented... then we might as well just cue the circus music.  I mean, if the city is that far off in characterizing RTA's plans, just how big is this schism between RTA and city hall?  And are we saying city hall submitted a rough draft of their ARRA request?  I'm all for sharing a laugh about government inefficiencies, but wow, that seems off the charts.

 

327, you certainly hit the nail on the head here.  This might be just one of many examples of how messed up things are there due to the lack of any inter-communication/cooperation/coordination between local agencies/governments etc...(and noting Jerrys non-chalant attitude about it.)  Thats really where I feel every problem and roadblock lies in moving anything forward there.

The city cant even figure out who is supposed to change a #$*& lightbulb that were so lacking during a recent stay downtown. 

 

 

327, you certainly hit the nail on the head here.  This might be just one of many examples of how messed up things are there due to the lack of any inter-communication/cooperation between local agencies/governments etc...(and noting Jerrys non-chalant attitude about it.)  Thats really where I feel every problem and roadblock lies in moving anything forward there.

 

Isn't that what NOACA is supposed to be for?

Maybe, maybe not, but the city should know by now that to get anything done its gonna take a certain amount of cooperation and going through certain channels.  They have missed out on so much potential funding sources due to their haphazard approaches. 

Thats everybodies responsibility.       

Maybe, maybe not, but the city should know by now that to get anything done its gonna take a certain amount of cooperation and going through certain channels.  They have missed out on so much potential funding sources due to their haphazard approaches. 

Thats everybodies responsibility.       

 

Municipal corporations, like all organizations, act in what they perceive to be their own interests.  Our region is divided into many separate municipalities, and none of them typically see that, all other things being close to equal, what's good for any of the others is good for them as well, and vice versa.  That is why you generally want an organization whose interest is, specifically, region-wide cooperation.  At one point, the county might have served that purpose, but given how corrupt it has become, even by government standards, and also given the fact that our region spans more than one county (5 to 13 depending on your source), the problem is much bigger than that.  NOACA was, as I recall, organized to serve exactly that purpose: to promote coordination and cooperation among the various communities that make up northeast Ohio.  I just wonder why we never hear from it, why it does not appear to have an impact on these kinds of issues.

I rode the Red Line on the west side last evening and heard the automated announcements. And I hate to say it but I think they give too much information!

 

Do they need to list the attractions around each station? And the announcement about people being allowed to use their cell phones "but please be respectful of people around you -- people don't need to hear what you're having for dinner tonight" made me laugh out loud as it bordered on the ridiculous. I like that the connecting buses for each station are mentioned.

 

I have been holding my breath and trying not to say this because they are SO much better than the computer-lady voice, but I have to say I completely agree.  I mean, is the Cudell Recreation Center really a "point of interest?"  I can see announcing the west side market or whatever, but most of the "points of interest" are questionable at best. 

 

I thought the "dinner" line was silly too, and won't do anything to curb people's yakking on their phone, same as the "decibels" line about turning down your headset volume, but at least they're jovial and show some personality.  But with these additions on to the end of the already long announcement about a) the upcoming stop and b) the points of interest, it gets REALLY hard to read a book or listen to your music without turning it way up, because the guy is going ON and ON and ON each time you get to a stop.  But I'm sure that's nitpicking.  It's better than the computer lady, and better than no announcements at all.

^I don't think that the MESSAGE they're conveying is ridiculous, I think the way they're conveying it is.  Or at least "cutesy," of which I am not a fan.  Why can't they just say "Cell phone use and usage of personal music players such as iPods is permitted while on board RTA. Please keep conversations and music to a low volume."

Jerry,

 

I certainly hope your surgery went well and you get back on the healthy track... Well, I'm glad the Buckeye BRT issue can be put to rest, and I'm glad both E.116 and Woodhill will be getting new stations... One lagging issue: after the Blue/Green rail maintenance shutdown, what is the situation with the 2 large steel bridges (over the railroads) on the elevated section of Blue/Green lines?  There are slow zones over both bridges; do they need to be replaced?  Some drivers really creep over these 2 bridges -- at times, going like 2 MPH -- it has really slowed trip times down; the Rapid hasn't been so rapid... This has been going on for the better part of the year...

 

Also, having returned home from the Airport and riding the Red line for the 1st time since early last summer, I see a more conversational automated voice has replace 50s/60s Rosie the Robot voice... the new guy is cool, if a tad bit talky...Unfortunately, I see "Rosie" has been transferred to the Blue & Green lines... Any timetable for getting her choppy voice replaced?

Unfortunately, I see "Rosie" has been transferred to the Blue & Green lines...

Don't worry it's coming, see below.

the redline and trolleys should all have automated human voice recorded announcements now - if not, then something is broken and consider reporting train number or time/day/direction.  blue/green lines and healthline automated human voice announcements should be coming as well.   

Unfortunately, I see "Rosie" has been transferred to the Blue & Green lines...

Don't worry it's coming, see below.

the redline and trolleys should all have automated human voice recorded announcements now - if not, then something is broken and consider reporting train number or time/day/direction.  blue/green lines and healthline automated human voice announcements should be coming as well.   

 

I actually prefer the driver announcments, especially when they have local flavor.  Just my opinion.  I have yet to hear either of the automated systems function properly.  Is RTA getting its money back on "Rosie?"

 

Also, twice in the past few weeks my inbound train has stopped just inside Tower City and gone into reverse because seemingly a switch was missed.  If it weren't so scary, this would be hilarious because the driver has to run up and down the train in order to do it.

Maybe, maybe not, but the city should know by now that to get anything done its gonna take a certain amount of cooperation and going through certain channels.  They have missed out on so much potential funding sources due to their haphazard approaches. 

Thats everybodies responsibility.       

 

This could explain the lack of stimulus-funded projects coming back to our district.  It was a quick money grab and the smaller suburban and rural towns may have had more of a coordinated plan (along with more shovel-ready projects). 

 

I was overjoyed at the prospect of BRT  and the subsequent streetscaping on Clifton, which was once one of Cleveland's great transit oriented neighborhoods.  Now, despite the crowded buses, the street is in horrific condition with potholes, etc.  It seems now the mention was just that, a mention on the city's quick jotting of 500 projects for the stimulus wish list.

 

Unfortunately, I see "Rosie" has been transferred to the Blue & Green lines...

Don't worry it's coming, see below.

the redline and trolleys should all have automated human voice recorded announcements now - if not, then something is broken and consider reporting train number or time/day/direction. blue/green lines and healthline automated human voice announcements should be coming as well.

 

I actually prefer the driver announcments, especially when they have local flavor. Just my opinion. I have yet to hear either of the automated systems function properly. Is RTA getting its money back on "Rosie?"

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I personally don't care if someone talking to me talks with a little "local flavor".  It's just not professional to do it in a public setting where what you are announcing actually needs to be understood clearly, sometimes by people to whom any form of English is a second language.

Welcome back, Jerry, and I wish you good health in the New Year.  As you've seen from the responses, talk about the Buckeye BRT was not an invention of UO- it came from PD coverage and the City's stimulus wish list.

 

I actually liked the new automated trip announcements the one time I heard them on the Red Line (I'm not a regular rider) and appreciated the reminders about courtesy.  My opinion might be different if I had to listen to the long announcements on a round trip daily commute though, so I understand people's objections.  Still, I thought it was a big upgrade from where things stood before and showed RTA is still trying.

^Or had to listen to the same announcement multiple times.  I heard the "everyone doesn't want to know what you're having for dinner" three times on the way home tonight. 

^Yeah, if the announcements about cell phone usage are more annoying than the cell phone usage itself...well let's hope the messaging system allows for some easy modifications.

The announcement suggests keeping conversation to a minimum in order to prevent someone from being disturbed by your dinner plans... who approves these kinds of silly things?  Also, I can understand attractions being pointed out on the Trolleys that roam downtown, but are there really a lot of attractions a tourist is going to overhear on the announcement and suddenly want to exit the train and check out?

 

And not to nitpick here, but some of the trains read "No Unecessary(sp) Talking To Operator" on the door behind the driver.

The announcement suggests keeping conversation to a minimum in order to prevent someone from being disturbed by your dinner plans... who approves these kinds of silly things?  Also, I can understand attractions being pointed out on the Trolleys that roam downtown, but are there really a lot of attractions a tourist is going to overhear on the announcement and suddenly want to exit the train and check out?

 

And not to nitpick here, but some of the trains read "No Unecessary(sp) Talking To Operator" on the door behind the driver.

 

That is not unique to Cleveland.  A lot of transit systems have that (or something similar) posted on their trains/buses, along with the "please stand behind the (color) line."

MTS, he is pointing out a spelling error.

I'm guessing this has been posted somewhere else, but I can't find it!

 

 

RTA to demolish closed Rockefeller Avenue bridge

By Karen Farkas, The Plain Dealer

December 29, 2009, 10:45AM

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The deteriorated Rockefeller Avenue bridge, closed since 2003, will be demolished next year and probably will not be replaced.

 

RTA owns the 80-year-old concrete bridge, just south of Broadway Avenue behind the Main Post Office. The transit agency will spend more than $2.2 million in federal funds to tear down the structure.

 

MORE AT http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/12/rta_to_demolish_closed_rockefe.html

 

I'm glad RTA's building a new station at E. 116, but...

 

I was just driving past there the other day, and the new Harvey Rice Elementary Sch. is just about finished (and looks partially open).  It visibly adds to the area.  However, it is right up on the E. 116 station... where, we thought, the high-density St. Luke's Pointe condos/apartments would be... but obviously, the project has flopped; a precursor to the credit collapse/foreclosure grip Cleveland would suffer.  Unfortunately, this prime Rapid Transit station is surrounded on 4 corners by: a school (govt, non-revenue generating), the new small, 1-story Social Security building (ditto), and 2 gas stations... Sure would be nice if we had leadership at City Hall that would look at Los Angeles, Denver, Dallas, and other cities eagerly expanding rail at the potential of TOD development, esp in a distressed city like Cleveland... If Frank Jackson spent as much time touting the potential of the rail system we had as he did fronting for the Opportunity boulevard/freeway, ...  as I always ask about out troubled city: where is the friggin' leadership????

 

Btw, as to the Clifton BRT proposal... I am NOT excited.  If RTA had vision and a spirit of cooperation, they'd be supporting rail transit (of some form, West Shore commuter, rapid transit ... something) rather than pumping BRT -- which L.A. has strongly rejected in favor of traditional LRT for it's planned Santa Monica route.

 

As for the Blue/Green Lines new/altered automated GPS station-call voice service: whatever upgrade is chosen, can we have focus MORE on station/connecting line info and less on overly-talky and/or RTA self-promotional stuff -- ie, ... "thank you for riding RTA, ... like we got for every station from the Airport to Tower City on the Red line!?

Good point on the TOD issue. There is a TOD "committee" for lack of a better term being formed among RTA, city and CDC reps to promote transit-supportive activities around rail stations. I think they're starting with Red Line station areas first, however.

 

As for rail on Clifton, do you want LRT/streetcar on Clifton or commuter rail on the West Shore tracks? I ask because in a declining metro area with diminishing local public funding and little traffic congestion to warrant attracting federal funds it's going to be hard enough to get one of those -- let alone both. The best hope is to probably get state funds, and we've seen how eager our state is to fund public transit....

as I always ask about out troubled city: where is the friggin' leadership????

 

 

The problem is less about leadership and more about market forces.  Yeah, it's painful to see certain lots developed so lightly, but I'm not sure what you're expecting RTA or the City to do here.  Buy and knock down the gas stations?  Reserve empty lots near transit for high density housing that's unlikely to get built anytime soon?  What the government can do is steer publicly financed projects near transit and that does seem to be happening.

Good point on the TOD issue. There is a TOD "committee" for lack of a better term being formed among RTA, city and CDC reps to promote transit-supportive activities around rail stations. I think they're starting with Red Line station areas first, however.

 

As for rail on Clifton, do you want LRT/streetcar on Clifton or commuter rail on the West Shore tracks? I ask because in a declining metro area with diminishing local public funding and little traffic congestion to warrant attracting federal funds it's going to be hard enough to get one of those -- let alone both.

 

Definitely I'd prefer Rapid/and or commuter, in/on the NS railroad ROW... I don't doubt what you're saying about the difficulty of getting rail funding in a declining metro area, but that being the case... it makes no sense; esp to apply a broad brush and punish a city that already has rail and near that (Clifton) corridor, already.  Thus Cleveland's criteria (existing physical plant, repair/storage facilities, existing/direct route to downtown, etc..) SHOULD be considered differently than, say, Detroit, which would need considerably more in terms of new-start capital costs...  It's absolutely crazy for the RTA, Columbus, the Feds, ... whoever, to continue to look and act like Cleveland has no rapid transit at all...

as I always ask about out troubled city: where is the friggin' leadership????

 

 

The problem is less about leadership and more about market forces. Yeah, it's painful to see certain lots developed so lightly, but I'm not sure what you're expecting RTA or the City to do here. Buy and knock down the gas stations? Reserve empty lots near transit for high density housing that's unlikely to get built anytime soon? What the government can do is steer publicly financed projects near transit and that does seem to be happening.

 

The key is vision and focus and, yes, if there was a plan, those gas stations could easily be torn down, even with the tedious/expensive issue of draining/removing gas tanks under the ground... the spot the 2-year-old Social Sec building is on at E.116 was the site of a gas station, too... As for who?  Your question focuses on precisely the vexing problem Cleveland always has.  Who?  We don't get stuff done here because leaders are content to stay in their own little camps (Frank -- pickup the trash; JoeC, run the buses, CPC, ... frankly, I'm not sure what they're doing sometimes)... I can't for certain answer that question.  But I can oftentimes it takes LEADERSHIP to step outside the box to make things happen...

 

... yeah, I know, I hold Ron Tober on a pedestal... but there's a reason.  The one example: Gateway, Progressive Field and the Q (current names, of course) were stuck.  Sure, huge tax bennies help bring Gund/the Cavs in from Richfield and spur Progressive Field, but Tober stepped forward w/ a novel idea: why not build a walkway from the Rapid terminal at Tower City so passengers can move quickly and indoors directly to the stadiums and make both more attractive... Tober/RTA were definite factors in making this hugely important (to the City) project materialize...  And yes, Mike White -- the hated ex-mayor -- really pushed the parties to make this happen... Tober, White, Gund and Jacobs (and others) worked in tandem to make this happen.

 

... We don't see enough of this kind of cooperation and vision these days.  Especially as regards our Rapid transit system which, frankly, doesn't even exist in the minds of our current leaders... Honestly, in the last 18 years since Gateway broke ground, have you seen ONE project, aside from tiny (and worthy) Eco Village, where planners have said: we're building this to take advantage of rapid transit?  ... so as usual, we're stuck with asking who?  how?, etc... in other places (and in a brief other time, even here in Cleveland) our leaders were taking the bull by the horns and getting things done.

Reserve empty lots near transit for high density housing that's unlikely to get built anytime soon? 

 

Yes. 

 

However unlikely, however remote... proper TOD is what we seek, so our actions should move us in that direction and no other.  Areas around transit should be zoned for TOD.  That zoning should be viewed as no less inviolable than any other law.  It may be debatable that good things come to those who wait, but allowing undesirable development on desirable plots is a guarantee of failure.  In similar fashion, actively pursuing BRT instead of rail will guarantee no new rail here, regardless of outside forces.  If it's that hard to get, they sure as hell aren't giving it to a community that doesn't even want it, that ostensibly wants BRT instead.

 

Our goals may not be as easily obtainable as we'd like, but failing to pursue them locks us into a fate that nobody wants.  True leadership stands against outside forces and seeks the best possible chance to beat those odds.  It drives me crazy when people describe market forces like some angry thunder-god, against which we can only cower and beg.  Market forces are simply an amalgamation of human decisions... and it's time for us to start making courageous, disciplined, forward-thinking decisions around here.   

327 said... "Our goals may not be as easily obtainable as we'd like, but failing to pursue them locks us into a fate that nobody wants.  True leadership stands against outside forces and seeks the best possible chance to beat those odds.  It drives me crazy when people describe market forces like some angry thunder-god, against which we can only cower and beg.  Market forces are simply an amalgamation of human decisions... and it's time for us to start making courageous, disciplined, forward-thinking decisions around here."

 

 

AMEN to that!

The announcement suggests keeping conversation to a minimum in order to prevent someone from being disturbed by your dinner plans... who approves these kinds of silly things? Also, I can understand attractions being pointed out on the Trolleys that roam downtown, but are there really a lot of attractions a tourist is going to overhear on the announcement and suddenly want to exit the train and check out?

 

And not to nitpick here, but some of the trains read "No Unecessary(sp) Talking To Operator" on the door behind the driver.

 

That is not unique to Cleveland. A lot of transit systems have that (or something similar) posted on their trains/buses, along with the "please stand behind the (color) line."

 

I don't mind if the message is clearly safety oriented -- I know NYC and Philly-area commuter rail lines have adopted the London-esqe "mind the gap" saying re high-platform boarding... But I totally agree w/ cleveland1979, the cellphones/dinner comments, esp the silly dinner one, is totally annoying, and I have not heard such announcements on any rail system I know that has prerecorded messages (Chicago, Philly, D.C. or New York) ... And when you have it repeated at EVERY STATION, you want to stick an index finger down the throat... I don't know whether to blame faulty GPS equipment or a lazy, inattentive driver for this...

327 said... "Our goals may not be as easily obtainable as we'd like, but failing to pursue them locks us into a fate that nobody wants.  True leadership stands against outside forces and seeks the best possible chance to beat those odds.  It drives me crazy when people describe market forces like some angry thunder-god, against which we can only cower and beg.  Market forces are simply an amalgamation of human decisions... and it's time for us to start making courageous, disciplined, forward-thinking decisions around here."

 

 

AMEN to that!

 

I 2nd your AMEN to 327... our perpetual 'helpless' posture is why, overall, we're in the state we're in...

A second AMEN to that.  (I think 327 is quickly becoming my hero)

Reserve empty lots near transit for high density housing that's unlikely to get built anytime soon? 

 

 

Our goals may not be as easily obtainable as we'd like, but failing to pursue them locks us into a fate that nobody wants.  True leadership stands against outside forces and seeks the best possible chance to beat those odds.  It drives me crazy when people describe market forces like some angry thunder-god, against which we can only cower and beg.  Market forces are simply an amalgamation of human decisions... and it's time for us to start making courageous, disciplined, forward-thinking decisions around here.   

 

The problem in Cleveland is that market forces are not the only influence on our cowering leadership.  Our leaders don't have the guts to stand up to small time neighborhood groups and special interests who all hold up minor progress in an attempt to enrich themselves. 

 

I believe it was a while back in this very thread where this problem was discussed in reference to the proposed Opportunity Cooridor as well as the Clifton BRT.  Our leaders back down from these divisive issues instead of pressing forward with a solution for the common good.  Why is a neighborhood dragging the rest of us down by stalling progress, while meanwhile their homes are being foreclosed and boarded up?  Ultimately projects like the OC or Clifton BRT will help the entire community (along with lots and lots of jobs). 

 

That was one obstacle that was not hard to overcome for Mike White and Gateway--no one really argued that Prospect and the district needed cleaning up. 

I encourage you all to run for office. Be a leader.

 

Now, on with our regularly scheduled program...

And what does this have to do with RTA??? Let's keep it on topic guys.

As for rail on Clifton, do you want LRT/streetcar on Clifton or commuter rail on the West Shore tracks? I ask because in a declining metro area with diminishing local public funding and little traffic congestion to warrant attracting federal funds it's going to be hard enough to get one of those -- let alone both. The best hope is to probably get state funds, and we've seen how eager our state is to fund public transit....

 

Not to be a downer, but at this point I'd be happy to see Clifton retain daily bus service, which is in doubt with RTA's proposed cuts. 

For Clifton to lose service would be an utter shame and really embarrassing.

For Clifton to lose service would be an utter shame and really embarrassing.

 

If evening/weekend service is cut on the 55, I hope the articulated buses return to the 26 on the weekends...they'll be needed.

The only time I use the 55 is at midday, evenings and on weekends. I have lived in my condo on Clifton since 1996, and the reason why I moved here was the good transit service. If these cuts go through, I am going to start looking for a new place to live.

The only time I use the 55 is at midday, evenings and on weekends. I have lived in my condo on Clifton since 1996, and the reason why I moved here was the good transit service. If these cuts go through, I am going to start looking for a new place to live.

 

Plenty of Public Transportations options here  ;)