So I took the Red Line to the airport a few days ago from the West Blvd. station.  My friend (who I persuaded to join me on this money-saving "let's take the Red Line" alternative to parking at the airport) and I arrived around noon.  A few thugs with their pants nearly around their ankles are leaning against the two ticket machines, preventing us from getting our tickets.  After I ask them to move, I nearly have to kneel on the ground to line my eyes up with the on-screen selections.  Why do the machines DEFAULT to 'Senior Citizen/Disabled" because it's basically an additional keystroke for the other 95% of us who have to crouch down and make the cursor move to the right.  I understand why at least one of the machines has to be at the horizontal level of a 3 year old, but can't the other machine be elevated for an average adult to see more clearly?  And the screens reflect so much light and the type is so small that....... ok, I could go on and on about those ridiculous machines.

 

Anyways, we finally get our tickets and walk down the broken escalators to the train platform and wait alongside what basically looks like a canal of garbage lining the tracks.  More thugs walk up and down, spitting on the platform and occasionally flicking a cigarette onto the tracks.  A couple of them are cursing at each other about a text message and another guy is playing music on his cell phone.  My friend and I are looking at each other with this sarcastic, "what a great way of starting a vacation" sort of thing.  Once onboard, the train repeatedly stopped every 100 feet or so... someone has explained this to me as an alert to prevent the trains from getting too close to each other?  It was happening so frequently that I started to laugh... almost predicting when the train would brake again.  Meanwhile, the automated announcer track was telling us what the next stop was and the major points of interest.  How many tourists are taking the RTA trains, listening to these announcements and upon hearing a clever piece a trivia about a particular stop, jump off the train and explore the neighborhood?

 

I don't know how much of this is RTA's problem or what, but it was a really awkward, unpleasant way of getting to the airport to save a few bucks.

^THIS.

If Cleveland1979, as an Urban-Ohio Hipster has these kind of issues, imagine the daunting challenge facing RTA in convincing Betty Lou Brunswick to ditch her Buick Enclave and take a train into town!  :-D

 

The complaints on the ticket machines have been voiced over and over on this and other forums--it's amazing the machines have survived this long!

 

 

I believe RTA was working on a redesign of the interface software.  Any updates on this, Jerry or Jet?

I nearly have to kneel on the ground to line my eyes up with the on-screen selections.  Why do the machines DEFAULT to 'Senior Citizen/Disabled" because it's basically an additional keystroke for the other 95% of us who have to crouch down and make the cursor move to the right.  I understand why at least one of the machines has to be at the horizontal level of a 3 year old, but can't the other machine be elevated for an average adult to see more clearly?  And the screens reflect so much light and the type is so small that....... ok, I could go on and on about those ridiculous machines.

 

Last time I was in Cleveland, I had some friends from DC fly in to meet me there.  I had them take the rapid from the airport to meet me downtown and they said these exact same things, along with some of the other complaints (and these are people that regularly ride the DC metro). 

Here I was trying to show them how big-city Cleveland was in that they could just easily take the train to meet me downtown, but with the dysfunctional impression they got, I was a little embarrassed.  Of course I had to tell them that it was "being worked on".

 

With so many similar complaints, this would be a good time for Jerry or someone to chime in about the progress in alleviating these issues....  As to not continue to lose riders, but.....?.   

^Maybe the federal government could give Cleveland the BILLIONS it gave DC to build it's subway system and things will run a bit smoother.

^I don't think we can blame the ticket machine debacle on money.  There were some really, really horrible machine and interface design decisions made by RTA and its vendor that we've discussed a whole lot here. 

^That wasn't my point.  I am sure RTA is doing a fine job messing the ticket machines up on their own, and you"re probably right, $ is not the issue.  My point was, we should not be comparing our transit system (or be embarrassed by what these guys think) to a system that is probably the nicest in the US due mostly to the fact the government, again, spent BILLIONS on it.

^I don't think we can blame the ticket machine debacle on money. There were some really, really horrible machine and interface design decisions made by RTA and its vendor that we've discussed a whole lot here.

 

I really can't imagine that any part of that system was designed with the user in mind, except perhaps to convince them that driving really is a much more pleasant option.  If they can't get a new system to replace them yet, they should just rip them out and go back to the old system.

^I think that problem is pretty widespread throughout the RTA user experience, unfortunately.  The system works fine for every day riders who have their monthly passes or know how to buy 5-fare cards and who either don't need a schedule or have one with them.  The system is really bad for casual or new riders, including visitors.  The fare instructions on the web site are incredibly complex given the blend of POP and normal pay upon entering.  The on line map is out of date.  The bus stops, even the busy ones, don't have posted schedules.  Some of the destination signs on buses don't mean much to the uninitiated.  It's an intimidating system to jump into. 

 

I don't know if RTA has one, but they need a rider experience czar.  Someone who can connect all the operating units (publications, maintenance, planning, etc.) with nothing but the rider experience in mind.

^That wasn't my point. I am sure RTA is doing a fine job messing the ticket machines up on their own, and you"re probably right, $ is not the issue. My point was, we should not be comparing our transit system (or be embarrassed by what these guys think) to a system that is probably the nicest in the US due mostly to the fact the government, again, spent BILLIONS on it.

 

I wasnt embarrased by what they thought, I was embarrased for our transit system.  The billions of dollars is irrelevent here (I mean Cleveland is the one with the new ticket machines not DC).  The point was that it isnt just an issue for people that are unfamiliar with riding transit systems - as well as - for as many people that have had problems and since it seems at some point there was mention of it being fixed, it seems sensible that it would be dicussed or an update given since these simple issues seem to now be detering people from riding RTA. 

When we are talking about such an obvious and basic design flaw that has been an issue for so many people.

 

So not comparing it to other systems..... this has been an issue for countless people that has given them a poor impression of Clevelands system. 

I think the RTA planners came up with the scale of these ticket machines on a cocktail napkin, ala Spinal Tap's Stonehenge prop. 

 

It is unfathomable how these things made it through the layers of management, committees and oversight that must be a part of their processes in spending taxpayer money.  I'd love to see the minutes of the meetings.

 

 

 

I don't know if RTA has one, but they need a new rider experience czar. Someone who can connect all the operating units (publications, maintenance, planning, etc.) with nothing but the rider experience in mind.

 

Fixed that for ya! I do like that idea.

 

 

I think the RTA planners came up with the scale of these ticket machines on a cocktail napkin, ala Spinal Tap's Stonehenge prop. 

 

RTA planners don't develop ticket machines. Vendors do. RTA planners develop a scope (or description) of what they want in a fare machine, then request proposals from vendors. A committee reviews the proposals submitted and recommends to the board of trustees which one they like best. The board then votes on the recommendation.

 

It is unfathomable how these things made it through the layers of management, committees and oversight that must be a part of their processes in spending taxpayer money.  I'd love to see the minutes of the meetings.

 

I was at the meeting where the fare machine was demonstrated because I was there to speak on another matter. The company employees demonstrated the machine. In retrospect, I would have liked to have seen the board members try to use the machine. Of course, everything is clearer in retrospect.

I was also surprised that RTA doesn't have anyone at the airport location... because the room they usually sat it looked like a dark cave.  It was also that way when we returned three days later around 4pm.  Why not at least have a representative at the airport during peak hours?  It seems like that airport location is such a missed opportunity, and one of the places you'd want to make the most polished.  There is very little signage throughout the airport and the dark room the attendant used to sit it almost makes it look like the area is out of service.  RTA had about a million of those "Best Public Transportation in N. America" signs printed up, but I didn't see ONE at the airport... seems to me that would be THE place you'd put that kind of marketing.

 

But after I caught the train at the West Blvd station and had such a nasty experience, I didn't feel too sorry for RTA... part of me wanted to warn others to avoid it...

Cleveland hosts national transportation convention just as RTA is forced to slap asphalt on sections of the HealthLine where concrete is already crumbling

 

The Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority has plenty to show off when public-transportation officials from across the country come to Cleveland next month for the American Public Transportation Association national conference. The crown jewel of Cleveland's system is the recently constructed $200 million HealthLine, a bus system meant to operate like a rail line down Euclid Ave. There are gleaming new stations and, in many places, new development to point out along the route.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/tipoff/index.ssf/2010/04/cleveland_hosts_national_trans.html

OK, so we should refuse to host the conference because of a minor fault in the concrete? That's just stupid.

Filling concrete on Euclid is the least of their problems right now.

I was also surprised that RTA doesn't have anyone at the airport location... because the room they usually sat it looked like a dark cave.  It was also that way when we returned three days later around 4pm.  Why not at least have a representative at the airport during peak hours?  It seems like that airport location is such a missed opportunity, and one of the places you'd want to make the most polished.  There is very little signage throughout the airport and the dark room the attendant used to sit it almost makes it look like the area is out of service.  RTA had about a million of those "Best Public Transportation in N. America" signs printed up, but I didn't see ONE at the airport... seems to me that would be THE place you'd put that kind of marketing.

 

But after I caught the train at the West Blvd station and had such a nasty experience, I didn't feel too sorry for RTA... part of me wanted to warn others to avoid it...

 

I thought about that the other day.  It's a big dark cavernous room.  have up a map and "destinations" around the city people should see.  Do something.

 

However, there should be an employee at that station at ALL TIMES.

But after I caught the train at the West Blvd station and had such a nasty experience, I didn't feel too sorry for RTA... part of me wanted to warn others to avoid it...

 

Htsguy, again the point being, we’re talking about things that really aren’t about money, they are about (as EC would say)  getting the small things right and making better decisions using a set of priority’s that would help with the user experience. 

 

Comparing peoples experience on other systems is relevant in the context of/if people that are public transit savvy have a difficult time using Cleveland’s system (and when its a new system (ticket machine or brt), it just makes the agency seem incompetent), what should be expected of people that are unfamiliar with riding transit? (as opposed to lowering your standards because its Cleveland’s system as if we shouldn’t expect more) 

 

And when you’re getting people on a board that should be the most transit friendly crowd, repelled such as Cleveland1979 and RnR, then I think it’s important to know that/if RTA is addressing some of these things.  I’m still waiting to hear an update on the ticket vending machines, among some of the other complaints, because until I know thats happening, I certainly wont be recommending it like I did previously.   

 

 

I don't know if RTA has one, but they need a new rider experience czar.  Someone who can connect all the operating units (publications, maintenance, planning, etc.) with nothing but the rider experience in mind.

 

That is a great idea!  RTA needs someone who can put a new rider's perspective to some of these decisions BEFORE they are released to the public.  I wonder if RTA's upper management even uses the their own transit system on a daily basis (other than maybe the downtown Trolley) because I can't imagine how some of these things get rolled out and continue in "disrepair" for an inordinate amount of time.

 

...I wonder if RTA's upper management even uses the their own transit system on a daily basis

 

No need to wonder any longer. I can tell you that they do. The last time I checked, RTA employees took 1.2 million rides in one calendar year. The General Manager uses public transit at least 3 times a week, depending on his schedule (he has many breakfast meetings). His normal bus ride comes downtown from the Westlake Park-n-Ride, and he varies that by driving to Triskett and riding the rail downtown. If a bus route is generating a large amounts of complaints, he will drive out in the AM to the point of origin, ride the route downtown, and check it out for himself.

Having known quite a few folks who work at RTA, I know that they themselves use the system regularly. But, I think that the idea of having somebody (whether by creating a new position or changing a person's work tasks) focus primarily on the new user experience would be a good idea.  If one uses RTA regularly, one can become accustomed to the various tasks that are a part of Cleveland transit culture, but it's a different thing if you just look at it with fresh eyes.

My brother-in-law took my nephew to game 2 of the Cavs game via the Shaker rapid.  Usually they drive downtown, so this was a different experience for them.  While the rapid line was smooth and everyone relatively friendly - people were loud and excited but not in a bad way - they really had a problem with the vending machines, and the confusion was fairly prevalent with other passengers. 

 

The biggest problem was the complete confusion of buying two passes now and two later (since they didn't want to blow the extra few bucks on two full day passes) and whether or not they're immediately activated upon purchase.  The idea was to buy 4 passes as soon as they got out of the train (2 for now and 2 for later) so they wouldn't have to worry about it later, but an RTA worker discouraged them from buying the latter two due to activation concerns.  Yeah, I don't know what that means and neither did my brother-in-law and his son (both of whom are pretty smart to begin with), but they were warned against buying those other two passes since they would not be activated and the two would have to buy another two passes after the game. 

 

I don't exactly understand what that's all about (what the heck is an inactivated pass anyway - when you buy it, it should be good for 24 hours.  There had to be some kind of miscommunication, please tell me there was!), but the RTA worker didn't help them all that much either.  I didn't get the impression she was all that nice either, and evidently she was a very soft talker - not really someone who should be instructing people how to use these complicated machines in a noisy environment.  Also, the workers really should make an effort to be a little extra pleasant and understanding at all times, especially when we have nationally exposed games and higher-than-average RTA usage due to the playoffs.

 

Overall, it made for a kind of funny anecdote during family dinner on Sunday, but it does speak to the inexplicably poor design choice for the passes and other issues with employee attitude.

 

 

 

 

I've never understood why they don't just offer a 2 ride card.  Seems to me that most if not all of the casual sports/events crowd making rare trips are always looking for this.

I think you have to use the pass to activate it. Buying it doesn't mean it's activated, and I think that's a good thing.  I mean, if you have a pass that's only good for a certain number of hours, and you bought it over the weekend at giant eagle, you wouldn't want it activated until you actually go to use it.  I think when you enter the pass into the machine and it stamps the date/time on it, that's the activation.

...I wonder if RTA's upper management even uses the their own transit system on a daily basis

 

"No need to wonder any longer. I can tell you that they do. The last time I checked, RTA employees took 1.2 million rides in one calendar year. The General Manager uses public transit at least 3 times a week, depending on his schedule (he has many breakfast meetings). His normal bus ride comes downtown from the Westlake Park-n-Ride, and he varies that by driving to Triskett and riding the rail downtown. If a bus route is generating a large amounts of complaints, he will drive out in the AM to the point of origin, ride the route downtown, and check it out for himself".

 

Jerry thanks for that input on the RTA employess ridership :?, but are you able to address if there is a fix being worked on for some of the vending/ticketing issues *(Or the repetitive, ridiculous, loud announcement issues) that weve been discussing for several pages now?

Or the repetitive, ridiculous, loud announcement issues. 

I've never understood why they don't just offer a 2 ride card.  Seems to me that most if not all of the casual sports/events crowd making rare trips are always looking for this.

 

Seriously.  Though the RTA Q&A about fares seems to think they do offer one:

 

From http://www.riderta.com/fares/

 

1-ride and 2-ride farecards and cash fares have no transfer privileges.

 

EDIT: now I'm confused.  Is there a 2-ride farecard?  It's also mentioned in the POP instructions as something that needs to be validated http://www.riderta.com/proofofpayment/

 

But it's not mentioned on the price schedule.

But why actively discourage my brother-in-law and nephew from buying two passes for when they leave the game?  Even if the cards weren't activated upon purchase, shouldn't they become activated when they're used later that night?  The whole idea of wanting to buy those extra passes was to avoid having to buy them before getting on the train to leave, thereby  bypassing the inevitable line of people. I hope this wasn't was some nickel-and-dime ploy to coerce them to buy day passes and therefore spend an extra and unnecessary $1.50 in total (or whatever it is).

 

I think I'm still missing something here.

 

Also, can these machines be converted so you can have the option of putting as much money as you want on one card like in Chicago?  It would save a lot of hassle.

Since most trips outside peak hours are no longer possible without transfers, has there been any thought given to revising the transfer policies?

But why actively discourage my brother-in-law and nephew from buying two passes for when they leave the game? Even if the cards weren't activated upon purchase, shouldn't they become activated when they're used later that night? The whole idea of wanting to buy those extra passes was to avoid having to buy them before getting on the train to leave, thereby bypassing the inevitable line of people. I hope this wasn't was some nickel-and-dime ploy to coerce them to buy day passes and therefore spend an extra and unnecessary $1.50 in total (or whatever it is).

 

I would guess that the RTA employee doesn't even fully understand how the passes work re: activation, and all they know is, have people buy the pass before they get on. 

 

I don't think you can load the card.  You have to buy a specific "type" of card - A card, B card, C card etc, with different allowances/privs per card.  Which again is unnecessarily complicated.

My brother-in-law took my nephew to game 2 of the Cavs game via the Shaker rapid. Usually they drive downtown, so this was a different experience for them. While the rapid line was smooth and everyone relatively friendly - people were loud and excited but not in a bad way - they really had a problem with the vending machines, and the confusion was fairly prevalent with other passengers.

 

The biggest problem was the complete confusion of buying two passes now and two later (since they didn't want to blow the extra few bucks on two full day passes) and whether or not they're immediately activated upon purchase. The idea was to buy 4 passes as soon as they got out of the train (2 for now and 2 for later) so they wouldn't have to worry about it later, but an RTA worker discouraged them from buying the latter two due to activation concerns. Yeah, I don't know what that means and neither did my brother-in-law and his son (both of whom are pretty smart to begin with), but they were warned against buying those other two passes since they would not be activated and the two would have to buy another two passes after the game.

 

I don't exactly understand what that's all about (what the heck is an inactivated pass anyway - when you buy it, it should be good for 24 hours. There had to be some kind of miscommunication, please tell me there was!), but the RTA worker didn't help them all that much either. I didn't get the impression she was all that nice either, and evidently she was a very soft talker - not really someone who should be instructing people how to use these complicated machines in a noisy environment. Also, the workers really should make an effort to be a little extra pleasant and understanding at all times, especially when we have nationally exposed games and higher-than-average RTA usage due to the playoffs.

 

Overall, it made for a kind of funny anecdote during family dinner on Sunday, but it does speak to the inexplicably poor design choice for the passes and other issues with employee attitude.

 

 

This happened on my last trip to Cleveland (the one where I found the announcements annoying).  I bought two tickets from the machine at the airport station so that I'd have a return trip from downtown.  After I bought them I checked them for expiration times (found none) and then I checked the station for POP stampers to validate the tickets (none).  So I just went downtown with both my tickets.  Somewhere along the line, the transit police stopped by to check tickets.  I gave them one of mine and he gave it back and went on his way.  I was really confused so I checked the card again for a time-stamp...found nothing.  Whatever, I just kept going.

 

Then on the way back I had two tickets still, so I tried one and it didn't work.  I tried the other one and that didn't work either.  Luckily at Tower City there was a transit cop there to help me.  I explained to her that I was on a layover and I got tourist sympathy points so she let me through the gate. 

 

It's a very confusing system.  The part that REALLY irritates me is that I've been on the system before, and for whatever reason this trip had me completely lost.

When RTA was first announcing its new fare machines (ahh, we were so excited then) I believe they mentioned that they could be upgraded to use the rfid "smart" cards- the re-loadable cards that only need to be tapped on the sensor to be read, like in DC, Boston, etc.  Not sure if that is a definite future plan or just a possibility.  It would definitely be nice though.  Not sure how that would work with POP though- I guess you would tap it on the TVM and you would get a receipt to hold onto.

This happened on my last trip to Cleveland (the one where I found the announcements annoying). I bought two tickets from the machine at the airport station so that I'd have a return trip from downtown. After I bought them I checked them for expiration times (found none) and then I checked the station for POP stampers to validate the tickets (none). So I just went downtown with both my tickets. Somewhere along the line, the transit police stopped by to check tickets. I gave them one of mine and he gave it back and went on his way. I was really confused so I checked the card again for a time-stamp...found nothing. Whatever, I just kept going.

 

Then on the way back I had two tickets still, so I tried one and it didn't work. I tried the other one and that didn't work either. Luckily at Tower City there was a transit cop there to help me. I explained to her that I was on a layover and I got tourist sympathy points so she let me through the gate.

 

It's because they weren't activated.  The fact that you have to put the ticket into a separate machine from the one you buy it from to activate it is what's really confusing.  I had to walk Mr. RNR through this both times when he had two downtown gigs and road the rapid in with me a couple months back.

 

@StrapHanger - the activation machines do say something about smart cards, but I didn't know what they were until your post - I did ask that a long time ago on here but never found out the answer. So I think they might work, as long as you knew which machine to put the ticket into. There's one machine to buy tickets from and another small machine that you put your ticket in to activate it/count off that particular ride.

Just wanted to comment on the concrete issues....I really hope, that on what is supposed to be the shining star of Cleveland public transport...that asphalt is not going to remain for long on the concrete as patches. To temporarily patch until it is done right is one thing...but if left that way is not going to last. The right way to repair concrete is with concrete. Again, the little things that add up to be a lot. It kind of reminds me of the duct tape on the propeller in Major League. 

The RTA fare structure and rider experience should be painless, and customer focused.  Not sure why we aren't getting an official answer from RTA on the machine redesign, but it may have to do with contract payment negotiations - ie the vendor hasn't been paid that much and RTA hasn't accepted the machines as is...

 

I saw a draft of some of the proposed redesigns for the machines, and it is looking significantly better.  Basically, the new flow will be changed to reflect the following logic:

1. Choose ticket type (1-ride; roundtrip; all day)

2. Choose person type (Adult; senior/disabled; child)

3. Insert cash (or select credit/debit)

 

so, if paying by cash, which is something like 85% of the machine transactions (and different than many other cities, where when offered credit/debit it is the clear majority transaction), it is a 3 step process, and can be completed quickly - in less than 12 seconds. 

 

There are also significant improvements to the layout:

- larger text, no highlighted text, no blinking cursors

- button numbers on the screen next to selection and "....." that aligns the text selection with the button (ie " 1-Ride - Press R3 ..........")

- no longer the look of a touchscreen

 

 

what is lost in the new flow on the basic TVMs is the ability to:

- add aditional tickets to the order (each ticket is a new transaction - again something like 92% of all current transactions are 1 ticket)  The larger kiosks will allow up to 4 ticket purchases per transaction

- buy an unactivated pass (the larger kiosks will still allow this I think)

 

 

There are still plans for spanish and smart cards and that is being considered in the redesign, but won't roll out with the initial updates.  These were always phase 2 activities, and phase 1, the machines working properly and being easy to use isn't finished yet.

Wow information!

 

Thank you Jerry Urbanlife, those are good things to know

And what about the fact that all machines require that you either be 3 feet tall to operate or bend over uncomofortably for a prolonged amount of time only to be knocked over with a 500 decibel beep when the transaction is completed?  Is that going to be rectified as well?  I seriously can't believe that leaving ALL ticket machines at ADA level would be an option, would it?

And what about the fact that all machines require that you either be 3 feet tall to operate or bend over uncomofortably for a prolonged amount of time only to be knocked over with a 500 decibel beep when the transaction is completed?  Is that going to be rectified as well?  I seriously can't believe that leaving ALL ticket machines at ADA level would be an option, would it?

 

there are significant shortcomings with both the physical machines and the software.  all that is being addressed now is the software.  basically, the height isn't the real issue.  the real issue is the screen angle which was changed to make them ADA acceptable because of the width of the stations - it was off by something like 1 or 2 inches, so they decreased the screen tilt by 2 inches, which led to a bunch of other problems.

 

basically, the new redesign by including the button number and the "....." aligning to the button will help fix this.

 

there are also separate proposals for creating a 3 color front panel and introducing a "1. select" "2. pay" and "3. Take" approach to the actual fronts on the machines instead of all being the red color with no orientation.  I understand that RTA hasn't committed to these changes b/c they would have to pay and not the vendor.

The two-ride passes are sold at Healthline Stations.  And when you buy a pass at a Healthline Station, it is automatically activated for you, so you can't buy one for later.  Is this not consistent with the Red Line?

^wow, didn't know that.  No, that is not consistent with the redline station.  It's not activated when you buy it.  Maybe it depends on the type of ticket you buy?  Which would also be a mistake.

^^It probably is consistent with the Red Line, but judging from TBideon's story, it's not something that was available for the Blue/Green line.  I don't even remember how the fares work for them- can you still just pay cash at Tower City?

 

Doc Broc- dumb question- for the 2-ride cards on the HL, only the first ride is automatically activated correct?  So you can use the return trip anytime, but need to activate/validate it in the little machine?

^wow, didn't know that. No, that is not consistent with the redline station. It's not activated when you buy it. Maybe it depends on the type of ticket you buy? Which would also be a mistake.

 

I personally have never purchased a pass, but I cannot tell you how many people I helped while waiting for buses over the course of the past year.  You may be able to purchase a pass on the Healthline that isn't activated, but an activated pass is definitely the default option, unless they've changed it sometime within the last two months.  And Strap - yes, only the first ride is activated.

re: cash, you can pay however you like, but you have to pay the machine and get a ticket to get through the turnstiles.

^It probably is consistent with the Red Line, but judging from TBideon's story, it's not something that was available for the Blue/Green line. I don't even remember how the fares work for them- can you still just pay cash at Tower City?

I think for the Blue/Green lines, if you are west bound, you have to pay when you get off the train or when you get to Tower City. If you are going east bound you pay at Tower City or pay when you get on the train. Also, I believe that the machines at Tower City accept cash, but you might need exact change. I don't know for sure because I always use my debit card.

^It probably is consistent with the Red Line, but judging from TBideon's story, it's not something that was available for the Blue/Green line.  I don't even remember how the fares work for them- can you still just pay cash at Tower City?

I think for the Blue/Green lines, if you are west bound, you have to pay when you get off the train or when you get to Tower City. If you are going east bound you pay at Tower City or pay when you get on the train. Also, I believe that the machines at Tower City accept cash, but you might need exact change. I don't know for sure because I always use my debit card.

 

You DO have to have exact change for the Healthline, which is stupid, because the machines are capable of giving change.

^That is stupid, but I prefer to use my debit card anyways; I usually never have exact change.

The confusion and differences in riding experiences reported in this thread alone, by fairly seasoned riders, should be a big clue for RTA that things are very wrong and need to be fixed.

No need to wonder any longer. I can tell you that they do. The last time I checked, RTA employees took 1.2 million rides in one calendar year. The General Manager uses public transit at least 3 times a week, depending on his schedule (he has many breakfast meetings). His normal bus ride comes downtown from the Westlake Park-n-Ride, and he varies that by driving to Triskett and riding the rail downtown. If a bus route is generating a large amounts of complaints, he will drive out in the AM to the point of origin, ride the route downtown, and check it out for himself.

 

Well that sounds encouraging, but with all these employees riding the lines, what's being done to address some of these issues that keep getting brought up on these boards?

 

I can't imagine Calabrese runs over to the train station and crouches down on his knees in order to buy a bus pass every time.  I HOPE not!  I'm assuming all the RTA employees simply flash their badge and continue on their way, avoiding the layers of confusion this fare system is plagued with.  Ease of use should be one of the top priorities... RTA is fine for veteran riders who have somehow come to accept these shortcomings, but unless you have 5 DUIs, are unemployed and broke or are too old to drive, I can't imagine anyone NEW joining this system after they try it out once or twice.  I REALLY want it to be better, I want this transit system to resemble parts of the stuff I've seen in Portland, Chicago, DC, etc.  We almost get there, but it's always an "ALMOST get there."  But after my experience last week aboard that Red Line heading to the airport, I'm not going to recommend to my friends they save a few bucks by taking the train... I'll probably just drive 'em!

 

What we really need are some fresh eyes looking at how the system operates and improving (streamlining) it for new and existing riders.  I know some cheap consultants... they're already on this board!  :yap:

The confusion and differences in riding experiences reported in this thread alone, by fairly seasoned riders, should be a big clue for RTA that things are very wrong and need to be fixed.

 

Amen!  We are the "experts"!  What does that say about the rest of the population???