^Agreed.  The new C-Line would be ok if it were just extended east a little bit.  I find it odd that they chose to stop at E9th for night and weekend service when E9th is nearly entirely dead during nights and weekends.  They need to extend it to E12th AT LEAST to pick up the Playhouse Square and Reserve Square area crowd.

Maybe after like 7:00pm they could change it to East 12. I do think it is important to have it run east 9th during the day though. I think the easiest solution would just to be run the E line on nights and weekends instead.

 

I swear I thought I read that all lines hours where going to be extended though

Why on this map do they classify the healthline as rail?! Wow its a long bus, but it still has wheels!!!!

 

http://media.cleveland.com/metro/photo/18cgrtajpg-9773ef79d19569ee.jpg

 

Trains have wheels too. :-P But I know what you meant. It was a lazy graphics designer who should have used the term "Rapid Transit" in the key instead of "rail." Such Is Life.

Why on this map do they classify the healthline as rail?! Wow its a long bus, but it still has wheels!!!!

 

http://media.cleveland.com/metro/photo/18cgrtajpg-9773ef79d19569ee.jpg

 

Trains have wheels too. :-P But I know what you meant. It was a lazy graphics designer who should have used the term "Rapid Transit" in the key instead of "rail." Such Is Life.

Except that it isn't really rapid either.

Maybe after like 7:00pm they could change it to East 12. I do think it is important to have it run east 9th during the day though. I think the easiest solution would just to be run the E line on nights and weekends instead.

 

I swear I thought I read that all lines hours where going to be extended though

 

Reading the language in the WKYC article, I believe that the C-Line alone will run during the extended hours from 7-11 during the week and 11-11 on the weekend.  I don't believe there is any service extension planned for the B-Line or E-Line.  Also, I don't believe the C-Line will be running at all during the day (while the B and E-Lines are running).  All three line running at the same time would be VERY redundant and inefficient, IMO.

 

"C-Line" Downtown Trolley is a service hour extension of the very successful "E-Line" and "B-Line" Trolley Service, which will operate between 7 p.m. and 11 p.m. on weekdays, and from 11 a.m. to 11 p.m. on weekends. The frequency of this service will be every 10 minutes.

 

Basically, they will take a few of the trolleys off the road at 7 PM and have the remaining trolleys run the C-Line. 

Except that it isn't really rapid either.

 

Oy.

Maybe after like 7:00pm they could change it to East 12. I do think it is important to have it run east 9th during the day though. I think the easiest solution would just to be run the E line on nights and weekends instead.

 

I swear I thought I read that all lines hours where going to be extended though

 

Reading the language in the WKYC article, I believe that the C-Line alone will run during the extended hours from 7-11 during the week and 11-11 on the weekend. I don't believe there is any service extension planned for the B-Line or E-Line. Also, I don't believe the C-Line will be running at all during the day (while the B and E-Lines are running). All three line running at the same time would be VERY redundant and inefficient, IMO.

 

"C-Line" Downtown Trolley is a service hour extension of the very successful "E-Line" and "B-Line" Trolley Service, which will operate between 7 p.m. and 11 p.m. on weekdays, and from 11 a.m. to 11 p.m. on weekends. The frequency of this service will be every 10 minutes.

 

Basically, they will take a few of the trolleys off the road at 7 PM and have the remaining trolleys run the C-Line.

 

You are correct. 

 

ClevelandOhio, read the press release on RTA's website:  http://www.riderta.com/nu_newsroom_releases.asp?listingid=1537

 

THAT is why we don't understand why they're proposing to stop the C-Line at E. 9th.

Maybe after like 7:00pm they could change it to East 12. I do think it is important to have it run east 9th during the day though. I think the easiest solution would just to be run the E line on nights and weekends instead.

 

I swear I thought I read that all lines hours where going to be extended though

 

Reading the language in the WKYC article, I believe that the C-Line alone will run during the extended hours from 7-11 during the week and 11-11 on the weekend. I don't believe there is any service extension planned for the B-Line or E-Line. Also, I don't believe the C-Line will be running at all during the day (while the B and E-Lines are running). All three line running at the same time would be VERY redundant and inefficient, IMO.

 

"C-Line" Downtown Trolley is a service hour extension of the very successful "E-Line" and "B-Line" Trolley Service, which will operate between 7 p.m. and 11 p.m. on weekdays, and from 11 a.m. to 11 p.m. on weekends. The frequency of this service will be every 10 minutes.

 

Basically, they will take a few of the trolleys off the road at 7 PM and have the remaining trolleys run the C-Line.

 

You are correct.

 

ClevelandOhio, read the press release on RTA's website: http://www.riderta.com/nu_newsroom_releases.asp?listingid=1537

 

THAT is why we don't understand why they're proposing to stop the C-Line at E. 9th.

 

Okay now that doesnt make any sense. There is no need for service on east 9th street at night, not now at least. Going through playhouse square and east 12th would definitely make more sense.  What about Cleveland State if we expect that area to keep going? I guess they could just use the healthline, but that doesn't take them to the warehouse district. Idk

Odd that Amtrak ridership in Ohio went up 24 percent in the last two years and GCRTA's went down 24 percent....

 

RTA loses riders for the second straight year

Published: Tuesday, January 18, 2011, 8:00 PM

By Tom Breckenridge, The Plain Dealer

 

RTA lost more than 10 percent of its riders in 2010, the second straight year of double-digit losses.

 

A recession resulting in job cuts and furlough days is the biggest cause, RTA officials say.

 

Six in 10 rides on RTA's buses and trains are work related, so fewer workers means fewer passengers, said Joe Calabrese, general manager of the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/01/post_419.html

Odd that Amtrak ridership in Ohio went up 24 percent in the last two years and GCRTA's went down 24 percent....

 

... and we're just smart enough to have elected a zealot, dogmatic Guv who campaigned on killing a $400M gift to create a new (actually rejuvenate) a statewide Amtrak line ... and then follow through...

 

... you said it best: Oy.

I really wonder how serious RTA is about improving transit in these corridors, or whether it is just drawing a pretty map.  I mean, what improvement is needed in a Kinsman corridor that, parallels the Green and Blue line rapids and doesn't pierce the City limit?  Kinsman, as it is, has some of the best bus service in the City -- one of the few 24-hour lines with frequent daytime service.  What's to improve?

 

I guess asking a city so deeply in the throes of a financial crunch and losing population to expand transit (just as it has removed many services in the last couple of years), may be asking a lot.  But if RTA, as it expresses in it's comprehensive transit plan, is serious about using transit to expand economic activity, esp BRT and rail, then it couldn't have asked for a better or more needy laboratory than Greater Cleveland.  I just wish we were more proactive and comprehensive about planning for rail, for example than being our usual reactive selves -- ie, the herky, jerky plans for extending the Rapid to the east, southeast.  In the late 70s, Green Line expansion to the innovative Mode Mixer terminal concept at I-271 was in the bag, until RTA got weak kneed in the face of opposition of largely one man: Norm Krumholz... then we experimented with a Railbus commuter rail pilot program in 1985/6, and then never heard anything again.  Then expansion of the Blue Line to the Highlands was planned, then died when Dick Jacobs decided he wasn't interested in shaping his development to TOD (and despite the Eco-City Cleveland report noting that the City of Cleveland had the power to force the issue, it was, after all, City land) ... but said nothing; ... then now, RTA, is suddenly interested ... again ... as Shaker Heights took the bull by the horns and decided (for itself) to call on the short Blue Line expansion in tandem with a comprehensive TOD plan for the Chagrin/Van Aken, Northfield/Warrensville intersection....

 

I'm glad it is moving forward and we may get expanded rail (along with a potentially great TOD working model in the process)... but this is tail-wagging-the-dog type of planning, which just shouldn't be.  Give me Denver and its Fastracks any day.

Does anybody think the west sides rail service should be extended? It appears like you could have a route that hits downtown Lakewood

Does anybody think the west sides rail service should be extended? It appears like you could have a route that hits downtown Lakewood

 

Ahem....

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,1916.0.html

Fitch rates Cleveland RTA bonds A+; New York port authority sells bonds

 

Fitch Ratings has graded the Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority's (GCRTA) Ohio bonds A+ with an outlook rating of "stable."

 

Fitch credited GCRTA with "swift implementation of corrective action to offset any continued economic weakness and continued careful monitoring of sales tax and ridership trends," according to GCRTA’s prepared statement.

 

Read more at: http://www.progressiverailroading.com/news/article/Fitch-rates-Cleveland-RTA-bonds-A-New-York-port-authority-sells-bonds--25641

I wonder if GCRTA could refinance some of its debt and free up some cash for its reserves, or to leverage more federal grants to modernize vehicles, facilities and power systems to improve efficiency?

 

One pet idea of mine is for RTA to offer competitive grants and/or below-market rate loans to developers as an incentive to build transit-supportive mixed-use real estate within 1,500 feet of its Rapid transit stations. Transit was part of real estate partnerships 100 years ago that developed our cities. It worked then. I think it could work now too.

One pet idea of mine is for RTA to offer competitive grants and/or below-market rate loans to developers as an incentive to build transit-supportive mixed-use real estate within 1,500 feet of its Rapid transit stations. Transit was part of real estate partnerships 100 years ago that developed our cities. It worked then. I think it could work now too.

 

Not only could it work, it could be huge!

How would Oscar Wilde have put it? To have one fire aboard an RTA train would be regarded as misfortune. To have two could be regarded as carelessness....

 

Scores flee RTA train as fire breaks out

Published: Tuesday, February 01, 2011, 9:47 AM   Updated: Tuesday, February 01, 2011, 10:30 AM

By Tom Breckenridge, The Plain Dealer

 

About 100 passengers fled a Blue-Green line train this morning near East 116th

 

The Blue-Green line RTA train is delayed this morning after a fire broke out.

Street and Shaker Boulevard when a fire broke out, RTA spokeswoman Mary McCahon said.

 

One woman was taken to a hospital, she said. The train was heading downtown about 8:15 a.m. when the incident occurred, she said. Passengers were able to open the door and walk off, she said.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/02/scores_flee_rta_train_as_fire.html

what happend to my comment?

 

and cant wait for people to start commenting that, "See good thing we didn't build the 3C, it would have been a mess," or, "They want to extend that thing, pshh, just drive people, its much safer, you dont have to worry about the stupid thing catching on fire every month. Who works downtown anyways anymore."

I deleted it because I saw that there were 100 people on board, then amended my comment about scores, and then you you posted your comment which was no longer needed.

 

Yes, I'm sure there will be jack-asses who will make the comments about driving, 3C and downtown. They are hateful, ignorant smears who stopped living a long time ago.

Okay RTA!  It's nice to see people breaking the law actually have to pay the piper.

 

http://www.riderta.com/juvenilefare/

 

 

Juvenile Violation Fare Program

 

As of February 1, 2011, juveniles (age 17 and under) who do not pay their fare on the Red Line or the HealthLine will be subject to fines.

 

Fare enforcement officers on these two proof-of-payment systems: the Red Line and the HealthLine; will patrol the system as usual and will hold juveniles responsible for their actions on RTA.

^ Finally!

 

Theres even a nifty video lol

Why the heck is there even a video?  It's a pretty simple, uncomplicated issue.  You break the law, you get warned.  You break it twice, you get fined.  You don't pay it, you go to Cuyahoga County’s Juvenile Diversion Program and perform community service.  You don't complete the program, you get prosecuted.

 

It's a pretty easy 4 steps. 

My only question is what do the RTA police use to verify the home address of a juvenile?  I bet many of them ride without ID on them.  And those that do, would the ID include their current home address?  Are they going to rely on the honor system?

OK... this has been annoying me for some time, but after this mornings commute, I have to ask.  Jerry, what is the RTA policy on use of "2nd cars" on the blue/green line. As a daily commuter on the train, I have been left scratching my head several times (both inbound and outbound of downtown) when a train with two cars arrives at the station and only one train's doors open, leaving the second car completely empty. As I said, several times I have boarded the first train and along with say 20-40 people been standing holding onto railings wondering.... geez there are a decent amount of extra people standing on this train, why on earth wouldn't they simply use the second car which is being pulled along completely vacant.

 

But what happened this morning was blunty completely unacceptable. the train arrived about 30 minutes after the last one departed (which I just missed), which is not a big deal. I completely get schedule delays on a day like today. But the train arrived with two cars, the lead one already jammed packed with people standing, and a half hours worth of morning commuters waiting and they only opened the doors to the first car. we packed ourselves in. the whole train beyond capacity. and given the lag in service each stop we made heading inbound... stops where normally there may only be 1 or 2 passengetrs, had 10 or more. People couldn't even find ways on the train. Several people went to the front door saying the couldn't get on, and people were extending hands helping to pull people into the sardine can... one stop someone wanted to get off. this lead to shouting pushing pulling of an individual simply trying to force their way to an exit before the driver pulled away from their stop.  Did i mention we were pulling a completely empty car?

 

And just when I started thinking, you know what... this is no longer uncomfortable and ridiculous, this is getting down right dangerous.  There were 5+ people packed into the stairwells, the ones they say not to stand in, but there was no more room.  That was righ around the time a young woman behind me in one of the stairwells who wasn't able to hold onto a rail because she was shoved in a position she couldn't reach one... slipped when the train made a sudden movement fell unbelieably akwardly cracking her head on the floor and back on the stairs. Her eyes rolled into the back of her head and she began vomitting. we were unsure if we couldn't even move her because we were afraid of injuring her neck or spine, but we turned her sideways so she would'nt choke on her own vomit. The driver stopped the car and we had to wait while she radioed for what to do. we finally proceeded into tower city. she was of course in the right side of the car and we pulled into the right tracks not the center, so they had to exit about 20 people before help could even get to her.

 

i am unbelievably upset about this.  So what is the policy of second cars? If this is driver descretion, I want to know because I want to write a formal complaint against this incredibly negligent driver who created one of the most ridiculous situations I have ever seen.  If this is not driver descretion but for some reason such as the pay getting off west, pay getting on east... and they can't even use the second car they pull.... then just don't bring it and tell people they can't take any more passengers.  I really hope this woman is OK, but as I said this situation is completely unacceptable and it would seem easily avoided if they had simply opened a second set of doors.  Please let me know if I should file a complaint against the operator or if there is some outrageous policy in place I need to be writing against.

 

Thanks.

Mayor, not an official answer, but one given since I was a little kid.

 

The "dead" car/cars helps with keeping the electrified catenary from freezing.

 

During Ice storms or winter storms, overnight RTA may run trains up and down the line so wires don't freeze.

 

The other portion(s) of you question I cannot answer. I'm sure it will have to do with budgeting.  Although when you have people wanting to ride the system, and they see an available car, the first thing they are going to think is RTA is mismanaged and it may cause them not to ride again.  I know some conductors will make an announcement as to why the 2nd car is not in use.

 

This is an prime opportunity for RTA to use it Twitter/Facebook and media outlets to inform riders about operations.

 

Back in the day when trains ran every 10 min (SS<->TC) crowding wasn't an issue.  Today and with weather issues, that wait is only more aggravating when you get on the train and only one car is in use.

Agree this was a horrible situation and should be addressed.

 

My only thought, as it relates to the driver (and I am not sure about this), is that she had no option to use the second car even if she wanted to.  I would imagine (although again I am not sure) that the car could not be used without a conductor on board (not to drive it but for safety reasons...of course sorta ironic in this instance).

still seems silly to me. the redline frequently runs with 2 trains, one of which is unattended. if the second train is already there, why couldn't people ride it? would it require another operator simply because of the our antiquated and outdated fare system? even then... in extreme circumstances of bad whether when you are expecting an influx of ridership well above average... it would seem worth it to add an extra operator.

Wow McCleveland, that story sounds unbelievable and pathetic. Something needs to be done. I have been in similar situations with the healthline, except for their was no empty car, and luckily nobody got hurt. But how packed the car was seriously dangerous and its only a matter of time until a story like yours happens here. Seems like for the rapids, they either need to use the second car or run more frequently, and for the healthline, they need to run more frequently, with less back to back cars which delays though whole system.

still seems silly to me. the red-line frequently runs with 2 trains, one of which is unattended. if the second train is already there, why couldn't people ride it? would it require another operator simply because of the our antiquated and outdated fare system? even then... in extreme circumstances of bad whether when you are expecting an influx of ridership well above average... it would seem worth it to add an extra operator.

 

The Cleveland Trains and Shaker Trains are two different types of equipment.  Due to us not having unified train type/system.

 

The Shaker trains must have a conductor on board each car to collect fares.  The operator of the train can operate all doors on each car (of the train), but can only collect fares in his/her car.

 

I remember that being a huge debate when the line was being rebuilt.  Riders wanted trains that they could be coupled and pass thru, but RTA bought what we have today.

 

The Red line trains which can run with only one conductor per train, therefore you don't need additional workers in the other car/cars, since you pay before entering the boarding zone.

 

Note before the new payment system Red-Line trains had two conductors.

Htsguy is partially correct. There are a number of reasons why an operator is needed for the second car on Cleveland light-rail system (the Blue/Green lines). Some have to do with the physical characteristics of an older light-rail system:

 

1. you cannot walk between the light-rail cars, such as for paying your fare upon exiting;

2. there are no fare machines at most stations so there is no capability of having a proof-of-payment system;

3. I do not believe the light-rail Breda cars are equipped with multiple-unit operation (which the heavy-rail Tokyu cars on the Red Line offer), meaning that the operator has no control over the second car (including its motor, brakes, doors, public address system etc).

 

Having said all of this, each of those issues can be overcome. Other cities with light-rail systems offer proof-of-payment and multiple-unit operation by one train operator.

 

Don't be surprised if Jerry isn't allowed to comment here because this incident sounds like a lawsuit in the offing.

Hopefully when they update their fleet they get the connected trains

Wow McCleveland, that story sounds unbelievable and pathetic. Something needs to be done. I have been in similar situations with the healthline, except for their was no empty car, and luckily nobody got hurt. But how packed the car was seriously dangerous and its only a matter of time until a story like yours happens here. Seems like for the rapids, they either need to use the second car or run more frequently, and for the healthline, they need to run more frequently, with less back to back cars which delays though whole system.

 

Not to say the Mayor story has no validity, because it does and has been an "issue" along with the NON EXISTENT communications system promised to blue/green line passengers, but due to the type of cars that run on the shaker lines, this has gone on for years. It was worse on the old shaker cars.  Back then you had one car, dragging three others on the Van Aken line or one car draggin one other on the Shaker Line.

Htsguy is partially correct. There are a number of reasons why an operator is needed for the second car on Cleveland light-rail system (the Blue/Green lines). Some have to do with the physical characteristics of an older light-rail system:

 

1. you cannot walk between the light-rail cars, such as for paying your fare upon exiting;

2. there are no fare machines at most stations so there is no capability of having a proof-of-payment system;

3. I do not believe the light-rail Breda cars are equipped with multiple-unit operation (which the heavy-rail Tokyu cars on the Red Line offer), meaning that the operator has no control over the second car (including its motor, brakes, doors, public address system etc).

Having said all of this, each of those issues can be overcome. Other cities with light-rail systems offer proof-of-payment and multiple-unit operation by one train operator.

 

Don't be surprised if Jerry isn't allowed to comment here because this incident sounds like a lawsuit in the offing.

 

A friend was a driver, and when the cars are coupled the first conductor can control the doors & PA system, although the 2nd (or third) driver can over ride the system in the even that cars doors need to be open longer or an additional announce needs to be made.

 

if you've ever riden in the 2nd car of the train notice the driver put his keys in so his/her car is in a "drag" (I forgot the correct term) mode.

 

I wouldn't comment if I were Jerry.

 

Note before the new payment system Red-Line trains had two conductors.

 

No it didn't. They had one operator per train -- going back to the days when RTA ran trains up to six cars long with the old Bluebird cars. Perhaps they had to have an operator in each of the old Airporter cars. But the current Tokyu cars (which replaced the Bluebirds and Airporters in 1985) were always run by one operator because, like the Bluebirds, had multiple-unit operation. The only employees eliminated by the proof-of-payment system were the station agents.

 

But you are correct that fare collections cannot be verified on the second car of the existing light-rail trains.

 

It will be at least a decade before RTA acquires new trains. They just rehabbed their light-rail fleet and are now rehabbing their heavy-rail fleet. Replacing the fleet will probably cost $200 million or more (each rail car costs $3 million to $4 million).

 

Note before the new payment system Red-Line trains had two conductors.

 

No it didn't. They had one operator per train -- going back to the days when RTA ran trains up to six cars long with the old Bluebird cars. Perhaps they had to have an operator in each of the old Airporter cars. But the current Tokyu cars (which replaced the Bluebirds and Airporters in 1985) were always run by one operator because, like the Bluebirds, had multiple-unit operation. The only employees eliminated by the proof-of-payment system were the station agents.

 

But you are correct that fare collections cannot be verified on the existing light-rail trains.

 

Then why have I been on multicar trains where there is a Conductor and a second driver?

OK then I will just say this.  On Browns games and events when RTA knows they are going to have an influx in riders... they put an operator on the 2nd car.  On days when inclement weather is predicted and occuring and they know they have to drag a second car... and it stands to reason there is going to be an influx in riders due to the weather.  Seems like it makes an AWFUL lot of sense to use 2nd operators during rush hour. The influx of fares it would seem justify the cost of the operator, and again... the situation that occured today was so beyond the realm of acceptable it is hard to convey. In this situation they should have simply been turning people away if they couldn't use the second vehicle.

OK then I will just say this.  On Browns games and events when RTA knows they are going to have an influx in riders... they put an operator on the 2nd car.  On days when inclement weather is predicted and occuring and they know they have to drag a second car... and it stands to reason there is going to be an influx in riders due to the weather.  Seems like it makes an AWFUL lot of sense to use 2nd operators during rush hour. The influx of fares it would seem justify the cost of the operator, and again... the situation that occured today was so beyond the realm of acceptable it is hard to convey. In this situation they should have simply been turning people away if they couldn't use the second vehicle.

 

I agree and I know you want to vent, but you're preaching to the choir.  :laugh: :angel: :laugh: :angel:

I know... but yes I had to vent.  This mornings experience left me physically angry at the situation.

I know... but yes I had to vent.  This mornings experience left me physically angry at the situation.

 

It's cool, I know you only want the best!!

 

Then why have I been on multicar trains where there is a Conductor and a second driver?

 

What was the driver doing? Deadheading?

OK then I will just say this. On Browns games and events when RTA knows they are going to have an influx in riders... they put an operator on the 2nd car. On days when inclement weather is predicted and occuring and they know they have to drag a second car... and it stands to reason there is going to be an influx in riders due to the weather. Seems like it makes an AWFUL lot of sense to use 2nd operators during rush hour. The influx of fares it would seem justify the cost of the operator, and again... the situation that occured today was so beyond the realm of acceptable it is hard to convey. In this situation they should have simply been turning people away if they couldn't use the second vehicle.

 

Agreed. That's why I think a lawsuit is probably coming. And from what you said, it certainly sounds justified. I only hope RTA amends its operating practices in a positive way as a result (I don't consider the talking/chirping buses at turns to be a positive response to other, prior tragedies). I wish it didn't take lawsuits and tragedies for RTA to take appropriate measures.

 

Then why have I been on multicar trains where there is a Conductor and a second driver?

 

What was the driver doing? Deadheading?

OK then I will just say this.  On Browns games and events when RTA knows they are going to have an influx in riders... they put an operator on the 2nd car.  On days when inclement weather is predicted and occuring and they know they have to drag a second car... and it stands to reason there is going to be an influx in riders due to the weather.  Seems like it makes an AWFUL lot of sense to use 2nd operators during rush hour. The influx of fares it would seem justify the cost of the operator, and again... the situation that occured today was so beyond the realm of acceptable it is hard to convey. In this situation they should have simply been turning people away if they couldn't use the second vehicle.

 

Agreed. That's why I think a lawsuit is probably coming. And from what you said, it certainly sounds justified. I only hope RTA amends its operating practices in a positive way as a result (I don't consider the talking/chirping buses at turns to be a positive response to other, prior tragedies). I wish it didn't take lawsuits and tragedies for RTA to take appropriate measures.

I have no idea. 

Picture of people walking from the fire and an article

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/02/rta_riders_say_they_smelled_so.html

Ohhh.  I've had to do that once.  Luckily I live close by and at that time the 12 & 13 ran.

Under the old payment system on the red line, the operator only allowed rear car entry and exit at stations with attendants.  They would announce "front car only" at the others, and you'd have to maneuver between cars to exit if needed, IIRC.

Under the old payment system on the red line, the operator only allowed rear car entry and exit at stations with attendants.  They would announce "front car only" at the others, and you'd have to maneuver between cars to exit if needed, IIRC.

 

Let me clarify, I haven't seen two drivers on a red line train in a while.  I actually had to call my cousin and he confirmed this. 

wow. I really hope that person is ok and between this and the fire (and the annoying announcements, which drove me off RTA to begin with), I'm glad I'm not a regular rider anymore.  We have a girl who just started at my job a few weeks ago and she started taking the rapid from shaker for the first time, and thought it was pretty good, until the last week or so. She is seriously contemplating going back to driving and I told her I didn't blame her.

Although these incidents are disturbing and need to be addressed, please remember that using public transit is probably a lot safer than driving a personal vehichle. Don't forget about all the traffic accidents that occur.  The cost for car ownership and the cost to society in pollution, paying for medical care for accident victims, etc. far outweighs the occasional incidents that happen on transit. I am mentioning this only because of the last comment about someone contemplating going back to driving. I think that there is some double standard where the inconvenience of public transit is over exagerrated when it does occur and the maiming and death due to auto accidents is minimized. I'm not saying this is the fault of people on this board, but the general attitude of our car dependent society.

Under the old payment system on the red line, the operator only allowed rear car entry and exit at stations with attendants. They would announce "front car only" at the others, and you'd have to maneuver between cars to exit if needed, IIRC.

 

Let me clarify, I haven't seen two drivers on a red line train in a while. I actually had to call my cousin and he confirmed this.

 

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say.  Because there was only one operator, you had to move to the front car if you needed to exit at a station sans-attendant.

justine, I know what you're saying. But personal inconvenience most of the time just does not trump the increased safety risk of driving for most people, and unfortunately most don't care about pollution. I consider myself fairly "green" but I can't afford to be 10 mins late to work every day, which is what happens when I was a regular rider (no, I can't leave earlier, I have to drop off my son at daycare at a specific time and cannot drop earlier).  When you couple that with the rise in fare prices and the annoying, hair-tearing, overly cutesy and ridiculous announcements at every stop, there's just no contest. The lot I park in most days is cheaper than RTA fare. And yes, it costs me in gas and wear and tear on my car, but when you compare that with being late and horribly annoyed every day, sorry environment but you lose.

justine, I know what you're saying. But personal inconvenience most of the time just does not trump the increased safety risk of driving for most people, and unfortunately most don't care about pollution. I consider myself fairly "green" but I can't afford to be 10 mins late to work every day, which is what happens when I was a regular rider (no, I can't leave earlier, I have to drop off my son at daycare at a specific time and cannot drop earlier). When you couple that with the rise in fare prices and the annoying, hair-tearing, overly cutesy and ridiculous announcements at every stop, there's just no contest. The lot I park in most days is cheaper than RTA fare. And yes, it costs me in gas and wear and tear on my car, but when you compare that with being late and horribly annoyed every day, sorry environment but you lose.

 

BTW those announcements that you are harping on have been pared down.  They are made solely for the WSM, and Cudell Station on the WS (not sure about ES announcements as I dont ride that way).  The rest of the announcements are just the stop, nothing else. 

 

Considering that I have been taking the Rapid for over 2 years now, very rarely I have I been late to work.  9/10 times I arrive at tower city at 7:55 am on the dot.  All and all I would say it is pretty solid in terms of getting me where I want to go w/o the hassle of driving.  Which this winter has not been to kind to.