I'm not sure it matters that Clifton wouldn't involve silver bendy buses with stations down the center.  The similarities are many, and they're significant to most people in evaluating the proposal.  There would still be something down the middle, at the cost of less roadway capacity.  In this case that something would be landscaping, which was also a major component of the Euclid Corridor, and not one that turned out particularly well.  The revised Clifton proposal also involved a new signal timing system, which has been problematic thus far on Euclid.  It also promised new bus shelters, yet another less than popular aspect of the Health Line.  What reason did anyone have to believe that these problems would somehow spare Clifton when they still persist on Euclid, three years and counting after Mission Accomplished?

 

I can see your concerns 327 but have a couple points on this.

 

There is no reduced road capacity--the centre lane on Clifton currently is restricted to left turns in designated places, which would be maintained in the new design.  Rather than yellow lines blocking the lane we would have trees and flowers.  I do also believe in the calming abilities of these medians.  Just yesterday I watched a guy almost roll his F-150 coming off the Shoreway at 60 mph he hit the turn by the Shell station doing at least 50 and nearly flipped it.  If there were medians at the onset of Clifton and end of the Shoreway (or redesigned boulevard) I think we'd see a greatly reduced "freeway" feel through the neighborhood.

 

In terms of the design, wasn't the Euclid Corridor ram-rodded by RTA alone (with a rubber stamp from the City of Cleveland)?  The Enhance Clifton project has at least some checks and balances in place--there are Cleveland and Lakewood,  RTA and also the Kent State Urban Design involved, all lending their voice to the process.

 

In terms of the design, wasn't the Euclid Corridor ram-rodded by RTA alone (with a rubber stamp from the City of Cleveland)? 

 

Numerous CDCs, large employers, community associations and stakeholders were part of a Dual Hub/Euclid Corridor oversight committee. Nor did RTA and the city get what it originally wanted, so it was hardly ramrodded. RTA and the City of Cleveland wanted a subway and surface rail down Euclid. NOACA said the region couldn't afford it. Translation: they didn't want so much federal money spent in Cleveland.

 

 

 

In terms of the design, wasn't the Euclid Corridor ram-rodded by RTA alone (with a rubber stamp from the City of Cleveland)? 

 

 

 

Numerous CDCs, large employers, community associations and stakeholders were part of a Dual Hub/Euclid Corridor oversight committee. Nor did RTA and the city get what it originally wanted, so it was hardly ramrodded. RTA and the City of Cleveland wanted a subway and surface rail down Euclid. NOACA said the region couldn't afford it. Translation: they didn't want so much federal money spent in Cleveland.

 

 

 

I stand corrected KJP--perhaps I've been spending too much time on Cleveland.com.

 

But I also stand behind my point that mentioning BRT in Cleveland automatically denotes the Healthline.  Whatever semantics are involved in the actual definition of BRT, the Clifton project is a far cry from what became of Euclid Ave.

 

^I agree with the "BRT" taint.  If the Clifton proposal had been described from the very beginning as "some streetscape improvements and improved bus service", it may still have been nixed as being too expensive, but I doubt there would be a lot of opposition to the design/concept itself.

 

I stand corrected KJP--perhaps I've been spending too much time on Cleveland.com.

 

Does anyone ever sit corrected?? :-P

 

 

But I also stand behind my point that mentioning BRT in Cleveland automatically denotes the Healthline.  Whatever semantics are involved in the actual definition of BRT, the Clifton project is a far cry from what became of Euclid Ave.

 

 

True.

Any feedback from this? Did anyone go?

 

Public Meeting Notice - West Side Transit Center Development Plan

We need your input, ideas, and thoughts! Come join the Historic Warehouse District, Downtown Cleveland Alliance, and GCRTA to discuss a plan for a mixed-use development with integrated transit center within the Warehouse District:

 

Wednesday, April 20, 2011

 

I went.  It's all very preliminary right now.  They are looking at 7 different sites on parking lots in the WD.  The station itself will be slightly larger than the Stephanie Tubbs Jones transit center.  They are looking to have it on the ground floor, stacked with and/or surrounded by other uses, most likely parking, but also some mix of residential, office, retail.  The idea isn't a definite go, they have to develop some concepts to study to see if it works from a transit efficiency and financial perspective.

Thanks for that. It would seem that they might try to pitch it as a TOD project. I know that hasn't worked for them in the past. You would think one of the parking lot companies would be interested in a combined facility. Should be interesting.

Does Cleveland use tokens or Smartcards for Fare payment?

Does Cleveland use tokens or Smartcards for Fare payment?

 

neither.  currently cash and magnetic strip cards.

 

new fare vending machines and ticket machines on buses support smartcards, but it hasn't been implemented.  was supposed to be a 2009 project, but i don't think there is a timetable now.  perhaps when all transit agencies are using the next technology (smartphones, biometrics, something else??), RTA will implement the smartcard system.

 

http://www.wkyc.com/news/article/189333/3/Cleveland-Thousands-turn-to-RTA-due-to-gas-prices?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|t

People flocking to transit to avoid paying high gas prices!!! We must do something about this immediately! IMMEDIATELY!!! Cut transit funding! Get rid of the buses and trains!! Give the governor a harrumph!!

 

harumph harumph harumph

Metro Cleveland ranks 41st among nation's top 100 cities in linking transit riders to jobs, study says

Published: Thursday, May 12, 2011, 5:55 AM    Updated: Thursday, May 12, 2011, 5:55 AM

By Tom Breckenridge, The Plain Dealer The Plain Dealer

 

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Metropolitan Cleveland ranks 41st among the country's 100 largest metros in getting public transit riders to work, according to a ground-breaking analysis by the Brookings Institution in Washington, D.C.

 

Two of three workers in Cuyahoga, Lake, Geauga, Medina and Lorain counties live near a transit stop. But they can reach only three of 10 jobs via bus or train, the Brookings report says.

 

Those numbers are close to averages across the top 100 metros. Transit agencies here and across the country must do a better job of linking riders with employers, especially in the suburbs, Brookings experts say.

 

Read more at: http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/05/metro_cleveland_ranks_41st_amo.html

Those numbers are close to averages across the top 100 metros. Transit agencies here and across the country must do a better job of linking riders with employers, especially in the suburbs, Brookings experts say.

Except that to link up the suburbs we need a regional transit agency, not a county transit agency. Of course that's not going to change without leadership at the state level making it happen.

Those numbers are close to averages across the top 100 metros. Transit agencies here and across the country must do a better job of linking riders with employers, especially in the suburbs, Brookings experts say.

Except that to link up the suburbs we need a regional transit agency, not a county transit agency. Of course that's not going to change without leadership at the state level making it happen.

 

And how incredibly inefficient and expensive it is to build transit in far-flung sprawling areas that have no density.

True, but in terms of jobs there's starting to be some real density along Richmond Rd and 271.  It's just really poorly served.  We have a lot of transit riders where at my job in Warrensville Hts, but the only bus that comes near here takes a full hour from downtown, and it only serves this road on every other route.  We have shifts that end at 11pm, but we have to let people off at 1040 because that's their last chance to get home.

There are four choices:

 

1. increase funding for transit to allow them to expand outward (including using rail and express bus to increase the speed of transit between regional hubs);

2. change state transportation, tax abatement, Issue 2 and other policies which encourage employers to relocate to the urban fringe, and instead encourages them to relocate next to transit stations, transit hubs etc.;

3. Combination of 1 & 2

4. Do nothing.

I would venture that expanding outward is more important for RTA than adding landscaping to existing roads or building yet another transit center downtown.  It doesn't always seem like existing funds are being targeted toward actual needs.  Couple days ago I heard about a project to put solar-powered bus stops in Cleveland Heights.  Really?

True, but in terms of jobs there's starting to be some real density along Richmond Rd and 271.

 

No, there's not.  There's a lot of jobs in Beachwood, but all of the office parks have huge parking lots and setbacks and retention basins and impassable barriers diving properties.  I work there and I know how hard it is to walk even just a few buildings over often times.  It's not dense at all when compared to downtown or any area that could effectively be served by transit.  And I'm just talking about Chagrin.  Look at Harvard Rd. or Richmond Rd. between Chagrin and Harvard or even that super-sprawling plaza south of Harvard.

True, but in terms of jobs there's starting to be some real density along Richmond Rd and 271.

 

No, there's not.  There's a lot of jobs in Beachwood, but all of the office parks have huge parking lots and setbacks and retention basins and impassable barriers diving properties.  I work there and I know how hard it is to walk even just a few buildings over often times.  It's not dense at all when compared to downtown or any area that could effectively be served by transit.  And I'm just talking about Chagrin.  Look at Harvard Rd. or Richmond Rd. between Chagrin and Harvard or even that super-sprawling plaza south of Harvard.

 

You're right.  But some sort of circulator service would go a long way out here, one that tied in with the Rapids.  When I lived off Shaker Square, the blue line could get me halfway to work but then I would need to walk another couple miles to get there.  Or I could walk a couple miles south thru Mt. Pleasant to pick up the 15, or take the train downtown and pick up the 15 there.  But any of those options would increase my commute from 20 mnutes to about 1.5 hours.  No, the Beachwood area isn't all that walkable, but it's a major job center and it could be far better served by transit. 

Cyclists ride free on May 20th and June 5th

http://www.riderta.com/nu_newsroom_releases.asp?listingid=1583

Is there a price freeze or promise to not raise transit fares for RTA? I would imagine that RTA is not immune to these recent jumps in energy costs. How is their budget "faring?" It's been almost 2 years this late summer since the last increase, at what point would a fuel surcharge or fare increase happen again?

You're right.  But some sort of circulator service would go a long way out here, one that tied in with the Rapids.  When I lived off Shaker Square, the blue line could get me halfway to work but then I would need to walk another couple miles to get there.  Or I could walk a couple miles south thru Mt. Pleasant to pick up the 15, or take the train downtown and pick up the 15 there.  But any of those options would increase my commute from 20 mnutes to about 1.5 hours.  No, the Beachwood area isn't all that walkable, but it's a major job center and it could be far better served by transit. 

 

I agree.  Circulators would help a lot.  But it seems by the recent circulator cuts that those lose the most money.  And I'd have to assume a Beachwood circulator would be less cost effective than say the Lakewood one was.

 

The problem all comes back to a lack of density.  You'd have to have long routes with many stops where only a few people may get on or off in a whole day.  You can't "bundle" stops for multiple workplaces because it's a completely pedestrian unfriendly environment.

 

That being said, there still are a few people walking to their job from the limited bus stops in the area served by the 94 and 5 buses (speaking of which, couldn't you have taken the 5 down Chagrin from the end of the Blue Line?).

There are four choices:

 

1. increase funding for transit to allow them to expand outward (including using rail and express bus to increase the speed of transit between regional hubs);

2. change state transportation, tax abatement, Issue 2 and other policies which encourage employers to relocate to the urban fringe, and instead encourages them to relocate next to transit stations, transit hubs etc.;

3. Combination of 1 & 2

4. Do nothing.

 

Or Kasich's choice, #5 - Decrease funding for transit and pull strings to eliminate projects for future consideration.

That being said, there still are a few people walking to their job from the limited bus stops in the area served by the 94 and 5 buses (speaking of which, couldn't you have taken the 5 down Chagrin from the end of the Blue Line?).

 

And then walk down to Emery, yes, I suppose.  But that's a train, then a bus, then quite a walk.

That being said, there still are a few people walking to their job from the limited bus stops in the area served by the 94 and 5 buses (speaking of which, couldn't you have taken the 5 down Chagrin from the end of the Blue Line?).

 

And then walk down to Emery, yes, I suppose.  But that's a train, then a bus, then quite a walk.

 

That's also more than a couple miles form the end of the Blue Line. ;)  I assumed when you said that you meant down Chagrin to 271 (it's two miles from Warrensville/Chagrin to Richmond/Chagrin), along which is a "semi-dense cluster" (and I'm stretching there) of businesses.  The fact that you had to go all the way down to Emery (which is another 2 miles south from Richmond/Chagrin) further indicates how spread out the employers are and how hard it would be to effectively serve them all with transit.

Yeah it's all spread out, but most of it is spread out along the single axis of Richmond Road.  That's ideal for transit.  Problem is most transit routes that go out that far just go E-W from downtown.  So unless you live at the exact same latitude as your job, you have that big walk along Richmond at the end.  A route going N-S along Richmond, perhaps with a stopoff at the Green Rd rapid terminus, would really help a lot of people.  Have it go down Mayfield from Richmond to the 271 area and then it helps a bunch more people. 

 

By the way, I just tried to pull up a system map on the RTA website and it refuses to give one.  Instead, a window says that map is only updated yearly, so you're better off using Google to plan your trip.  Not if you need to see a system map you're not.

I don't think much of anything is centered along Richmond Rd.  The main businesses along Chagrin run from around Lander and Chagrin to Chagrin and Warrensville.  Along Cedar it's on and off all the way through Cleveland Heights and University Heights and then some malls near Cedar and Richmond.  Along Mayfield there are businesses all the way from UC to Gates Mills Towers.  However, Richmond just cuts across basically.  There is nothing between Beachwood Place and South Woodland or legacy and Mayfield Rd.  Also, the businesses are very scattered along Richmond even south of Chagrin.

 

But there already is a bus on Richmond (94).  It starts at E. 260th and Lake Shore in Euclid and continues all the way down to CCC East.  I suppose it could be extended down to the industrial area south of Miles, but it already covers a large portion of the area in question.

I would venture that expanding outward is more important for RTA than adding landscaping to existing roads or building yet another transit center downtown.  It doesn't always seem like existing funds are being targeted toward actual needs.  Couple days ago I heard about a project to put solar-powered bus stops in Cleveland Heights.  Really?

 

You missed my point. My point was whether public policy should be amended to allow RTA to expand out into the low-density sprawl areas, or to bring more destinations/density/ridership traffic generators from the sprawl areas to areas already well-served by RTA. I was thinking of RTA's route map, not what RTA facilities exist on that route map. Do we expand the routes on that map, thereby decreasing the ridership density per service-mile and therefore increase RTA's operating expenses per passenger-mile, or do we reverse course of spreading our land uses, infrastructure and taxbase too thin, and instead bring the taxbase back to the core RTA network where it already operates service more frequently?

Do we expand the routes on that map, thereby decreasing the ridership density per service-mile and therefore increase RTA's operating expenses per passenger-mile

 

Most people would probably say "yes" to that question because it has already been done in every other area (utilities, roads, etc.) without having any understanding of (or care about) why it's unsustainable.

Immediate term?  Yes, we extend service to where jobs are.  Long term?  Hopeflly we can defeat sprawl and begin pulling things back in.  But that's not going to happen overnight and we can't make a generation of workers wait for it.

OK, as long as we all understand what the costs are and don't complain about them after presented with the bill..... yeah right.

:-D Good news from GCRTA....

 

News & Updates: Newsroom

RTA news

May 12, 2011

 

Grand Opening- Puritas Rapid Station

 

CLEVELAND- The new $9.6 million, state-of-the-art Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority (RTA) Puritas Rapid Transit Station, located at Puritas Avenue and West 150th Street, will open its doors on May 17.

 

At 11:30 a.m., George Dixon, RTA Board of Trustees President, will lead the inauguration of the Puritas Rapid Transit Station. He will be joined by Frank Jackson, Mayor of Cleveland; the Honorable Martin Sweeney, President of Cleveland City Council; and Joseph Calabrese, CEO and General Manager of GCRTA.  Also in attendance will be members of the Ohio Department of Transportation.

 

The design of the reconstructed station stemmed from input from the local community, to include both residential and commercial aspects. Part of the design funding came from the NOACA Transportation for Livable Communities Initiative (TLCI) grant; and is the first completed TLCI project.

 

RTA worked collaboratively with Bellaire-Puritas Development Corporation, the Kamms Corner Development Corporation (KCDC) and City of Cleveland Councilmen Martin Sweeney and Martin J. Keane on this station. Construction funding came from the American Reinvestment and Recovery Act (ARRA).

 

The reconstructed station features a red brick entrance at Puritas Avenue and a smaller, residential style entrance at West 154th Street. Its 6,500 square foot main building has a grand foyer and rounded portico, along with a130-foot bridge connecting passengers to the train’s platform. Parking includes nearly 600 parking spaces, with a row of dedicated overnight spaces, where customers can leave their cars at no charge for up to 7 days.*

 

Featured public art includes a tile mosaic by Dr. Murphy Adjayi on the wall and floor of the station, benches along the sidewalks, designed by Ron Barron, and additional work by William Culbertson.

 

The Puritas Rapid Transit Station has typically been one of RTA’s top five stations for ridership on the Red Line, due to ample parking and easy access from I-71. With gas prices rising and summer construction season underway, RTA anticipates the reconstructed station to be busy; bustling with commuters.

 

Please visit www.riderta.com for all timetables, schedules and route information.

 

For questions, concerns and route planning, please call the RTAnswerline at 216.621.9500.

 

 

Sorry if I missed it somewhere, but does anybody know if the Waterfront Line will be running Sunday for the Cleveland Marathon?

Yes, the Waterfront Line runs on all Saturdays and Sundays. See the timetable at:

http://www.riderta.com/pdf/67-67A.pdf

 

First train arrives Waterfront Line stations just after 9 a.m.

Thanks, but I should have specified.  The Marathon starts at 7 am.  Will they be running trains for it (earlier than the normally scheduled trains)?  Marathon runners waiting for a 9 am train would put them at a slight disadvantage. :)

Ah, I see. I would be surprised if they started the Waterfront Line earlier. I was about to suggest you contact Jerry Masek, but I see the marathon is tomorrow. I doubt he would be able to get back to you with any details in the next few hours.

 

So I looked on the RTA website. This is the only service advisory I found regarding the marathon:

 

http://www.riderta.com/nu_ridersalerts_list.asp?listingid=1501

Does anyone know if transit oriented development such as housing and shops are being planned near the redeveloped Puritas Red Line station? In general, are investors/developers looking at areas near transit in Cleveland to create transit oriented dense neighborhoods? It seems logical with the price of gas going up but I'm not sure if the investors are ready to invest yet.

No. Most Cleveland developers don't know what TOD is, or if they do, they seem to think it's something you do only for poor people in Cleveland or for everyday people in cities with bad traffic.

 

I think it's time for another TOD seminar for developers to show them the benefits of investing next to rail stations, busy transit intersections and transit centers.

So, the Waterfront Line was in fact not running until 9 am on Sunday.  I feel like this was an awfully big missed opportunity by RTA considering there were probably 30,000+ people (between the 18,000 runners and the spectators) congregating at Cleveland Browns Stadium at 7 am, and many leaving (about 13,000 were running either the 10K or half marathon) before 9 am.  Further, driving and parking was more of a nightmare than your average 30,000 people coming downtown because of all the roads that were blocked for the marathon.

 

Hopefully in the future they will consider running the WFL trains for an extra few hours the morning of the marathon.  Maybe Rite-Aid would even pay for it?

By the way, I just tried to pull up a system map on the RTA website and it refuses to give one.  Instead, a window says that map is only updated yearly, so you're better off using Google to plan your trip.  Not if you need to see a system map you're not.

 

Actually, the website doesn't "refuse to give one". That disclaimer was placed in there to point out the fact that printed materials of any kind typically change more slowly than pure data-based planning services such as Google Maps. Did you click "OK" in the alert box that resulted? Doing so will provide you with the most currently available system map. Clicking "Cancel" will, understandably, cancel your request and NOT return the map, because that's what you've told the server to do.

 

Please report any difficulties with accessing this information to [email protected], and it they will be addressed.

I did hit OK.  Just tried it again, same result.  Could be an issue with my work computer.  But it worked fine prior to the disclaimer being there. 

 

And I would never have thought the system map on RTA's website would be considered printed material.  People on this site draw lines on maps, with labels, all the time.  So I don't understand why RTA's online system map can only be updated once per year.  It's not common for an organization's website to state that google's information is more current than its own.  That disclaimer raises more questions than it answers. 

I just pulled up the system map with no problem, and with no disclaimer box either. I just clicked the link and it came right up.

I just pulled up the system map with no problem, and with no disclaimer box either. I just clicked the link and it came right up.

 

Do you have JavaScript disabled?

I'll check with my computer guy when next he's here.  We have a lot of employees who ride RTA so I'd like to be able to fully access the site.

I meant that question for AJ93, I don't believe you would see the dialog at all if you had it disabled.  More than anything, it may be a popup blocker causing your problem, 321, as the code is trying to open the link in a new window.

I just pulled up the system map with no problem, and with no disclaimer box either. I just clicked the link and it came right up.

 

Do you have JavaScript disabled?

 

I think so....my security protocol enables scripting of Java applets. I presume that's what you're referring to?

No...never mind though, just be happy it's working for you! :)

So, the Waterfront Line was in fact not running until 9 am on Sunday.  I feel like this was an awfully big missed opportunity by RTA considering there were probably 30,000+ people (between the 18,000 runners and the spectators) congregating at Cleveland Browns Stadium at 7 am, and many leaving (about 13,000 were running either the 10K or half marathon) before 9 am.  Further, driving and parking was more of a nightmare than your average 30,000 people coming downtown because of all the roads that were blocked for the marathon.

 

Hopefully in the future they will consider running the WFL trains for an extra few hours the morning of the marathon.  Maybe Rite-Aid would even pay for it?

 

I agree it was a missed opportunity for RTA.